Promoting Teacher Student Bonding

[Impish]

A new discussion is underway here in my city, amongst the public school board and its minions that I find disturbing, and makes me once again grateful to God to be a homeschooler, and affirm again my intention to NEVER have a child in public school.

 

Apparently the new idea being bandied about (it hasn't hit the general population yet, only those in the school board are aware of it, teachers, etc) is that teachers will be promoted along with the students. So Mrs. Crankypants who is Johnny's teacher in grade one will greet him on the first day of grade two! The idea behind this is 'to promote teacher-student bonding'

:glare::blink::eek::svengo:

Pardon?!

I have two problems with this.

The first problem is minor in comparison to the second. If Jr gets Ms. Sea Hag, kiss goodbye his love of learning if he's stuck with her through elementary school.

 

The second is far more alarming to me, and is the exact basis of this idea. Teacher-student bonding. 'scuse me?! I find this frightening, I really, truly do. To me, its another way to widen the gap between the public schooled student and his/her family. Ensure that he's bonded to his teacher and further diminish his bond with his mother. (I'm going with the statistics that the majority of elementary teachers are female) To me, this is very very frightening.

 

I think that public school has a heck of a lot to answer for when it comes to the demise of the nuclear family. Anyone whose been through the public school system has been taught that homework is secondary to family commitments. I cannot begin to count the times that I was punished in school for not completing homework due to family commitments. My mother's notes weren't valid excuses, the homework wasn't completed, and that was all that mattered. I know that I'm not the only student to have experienced that. So many times I've heard people undergoing martial counselling and even divorce because they've been unable to balance work and family, and I've come to understand that the mind set for that started in the public school hallways, where homework was of ultimate importance, family a distant second. That was pounded in to us by our teachers, who had us 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week, in comparison to parents who saw us in the evenings and weekends.

 

And now they want to further those bonds, by ensuring that teachers follow students for six years or more?

 

The only bonds young children need to be fostering are those with their family. Not with paid representitives of the public school board!

 

ETA: This is for Elementary school, grades 1-6.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Impish

[snickelfritz]

But, it's usually only for 2 or 3 grades. Maybe 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

 

There are certification issues that keep it from being carried too far in my state. pre-K, K, and (maybe???) 1st grades need teachers to be early childhood certified. Through about 5th is elementary certification and above that would be middle school or high school certification. Few teachers would have the necessary certification to switch back and forth. There are exceptions and it depends on whether a school is Jr. High or Middle School and how they group their grades, etc...

 

I see benefits and drawbacks. I was always ready for a new teacher.:tongue_smilie:

[teamturner]

There are some bad teachers out there or at least those teachers whose heart isn't in it and how sad for the kids that are stuck w/that teacher for 5 years.

 

Not to mention that these teachers will have to start from scratch and know everything there is to teach in all of those grades. So much for them being experts in their area of teaching.

 

Some teachers and students just don't click. To me that doesn't sound like a good idea.

[Impish]

As I understand it, they're talking about all the way through the elementary grades. Here, if you teach elementary, you teach 1-6. My friend in another province taught a 5/6 split last year, is teaching gr 1 this year. There's no recertification or any restrictions at all btwn grades.

[Karen in CO]

The best two years my ds had in public school were when his terrific third grade teacher moved up to fourth with him. The class was more cohesive, and the teacher already knew the students. She took that knowledge and pulled the best from the kids. At that elementary school, several of the teachers rotate around with the kids like that. It works wonderfully. I loved that he had Ms. Peters for two years. If she could have moved up to middle school with them, that would have been ideal.

 

Homeschooling isn't for everyone, and the kids that are in school do better when they have some consistency. It can be terrible too. In my ds's old middle school, the principal moves with the class. Which makes since because there are 400 kids per grade and knowing the kids can make all the difference. But if that principal is a mean-spiteful, tiny person who assumes that the taller kid is always the one at fault in a fight, then there is a problem. She even admitted that she was unfairly biased against my ds because of his height. I think the root problem was the 800 kids in grades 5-8 in the same building. That is insane. And now I'm way off track.

 

Anyway. I don't think the premise of a teacher moving with the class is flawed - I've had both good and bad experiences with it. I think it can be a great idea, but it relies on a good match between the child and teacher and a good quality teacher.

[bettyandbob]

Waldorf programs promote having the same teacher for years. The Waldorf school in my area the students have the same class and teacher for grades 1 to 8.

 

My public school system does this at some elementary schools. When my oldest was younger they experimented with K-2 grade classes that students returned to for 3 years. The schools decided they didn't like the academic results. The problem may have been the size of the classes compared to the private Waldorf school.

 

If the teacher is good I don't see how this would undermine family life. I grew up going to public schools. I had great caring teachers some years and some years not so good teachers. All the time my loyalty was to home. It's not about the schools trying to take your child it's about what you put into your child to begin with. However, I know some people want to read evil into everything public schools do.

[bettyandbob]

about teachers teaching grades 1-6. I hope someone who can handle 1st grade material can teach 6th grade material. My state doesn't differentiate certifications until 7-12th grades, particularly 9th -12th. In those grades you need specific expertise in subject areas. I know teachers prefer certain ages, but they should have the skills to handle the range of elementary grades.

[mommaduck]

As someone that has experienced abuse at the hands of the public school system's teachers (granted there were a few gems :) ), this is scary.

[I talk to the trees]

One of the primary purposes of public schooling is to drive a wedge between the child and the family, and make the child psychologically dependent upon the praise and approval of authority figures. To me, this seems like a perfectly logical step on that very Spartan road, and one of the reasons I am so very glad I homeschool.

 

-Robin

[Pamela H in Texas]

Though I can see some drawbacks, I see PLENTY of positives also. I've never heard of a teacher following the kids ALL the way through though, only a grade or two.

 

As for how it would work? Well, here, you can double certify. So you could do preK-4 then 4-8 if you wanted. The degree program I am in covers it so you can do either certification or both.

[Carol in Cal.]

I attended a parochial school that had two grades to a classroom for 1-8th grades, and it was great for me.

 

For one thing, the teachers all knew the kids pretty well after the first year. They could hit the ground running, more or less, in the Fall. Also, having two grades to a class meant that they had some leeway in teaching at or beyond grade level, and also they were accustomed to keeping kids occupied even when they were not being directly taught. That last point won't apply in your school, but the others do. In retrospect I realize that the teachers regarded the kids differently because they would teach them for a while--they had to make a real commitment to teaching them all, rather than sort of putting one or more aside to 'pass on'.

 

I think that accountability is important, and that generally teachers are more lenient than they should be rather than less so. That's one of the reasons I homeschool.

 

I believe that a known teacher improves the teacher/child relationship and is likely to improve learning and emotional comfort. I want every child to get a good education, and if the public schools can do better in the area of making education personal, I say, great!

[Dobela]

 

about teachers teaching grades 1-6. I hope someone who can handle 1st grade material can teach 6th grade material. My state doesn't differentiate certifications until 7-12th grades, particularly 9th -12th. In those grades you need specific expertise in subject areas. I know teachers prefer certain ages, but they should have the skills to handle the range of elementary grades.

You know, the public school teachers I know say almost the exact same things about homeschool parents- no way can they teach more than one grade level because it takes different skills for each level.....

[Dobela]

I am a former public school teacher. I taught the same kids more than one year and personally I loved it. It just happened one year due to growth and I was offered the opportunity to move up with them. I didn't have all the same-a couple moved, a couple went to other classes, and one I knew needed a different teacher than me (mostly due to difficulty with the parents). When the fall started, I knew where almost all had ended and I already knew what worked discipline techniques worked with some. Not to mention I had already built relationships with the parents.

 

When I taught special ed, I often had the same students for multiple years.

 

Certification varies by state. When I originally certified, it was for 1-6. Since then they have broken it down into K-1, 2-4, 6-8.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with teachers moving up with students. In every school I taugh in, the principal or counselor made up student lists towards the end of the summer. If a teacher changed grades for some reason, he/she would be asked if there were certain children he/she felt would do better in another classroom, for whatever reason. If there were some that would do bettter in another class, they were not put back with her/him.

[Greta]

Well, I for one think that's a fantastic idea. This is the way Waldorf schools are run. There is a charter school here that does this, and it's working exceptionally well so far. They did have one teacher that the kids had a hard time with, and that teacher was let go. I think it's more likely that bad teachers get weeded out with this system than with the new-class-every-year system.

 

I also think that some amount of bonding with the teacher is a very good thing. Far, far preferable to the increasingly common disrespect and lack of regard for the teacher, don't you think? The thought of kids spending that much time with someone and NOT bonding with them seems more frightening to me. And it's a wonderful opportunity for the teacher to get to know the students' individual learning styles better and be able to teach to their needs.

 

I had the same teacher in 5th grade that I had in 3rd, and I LOVED it. It was a very positive experience, and I would have been thrilled to have her for every grade, K through 6th.

[teachermom2834]

it is optional. Parents get to decide before the end of the year whether or not they want to "loop" with the same teacher.

 

Seems to work best when there is an option. Most parents usually opt to stay with their teacher.

[Jen500]

My boys had 2 wonderful years in public school with the same teacher. I don't see why this would "drive a wedge between the child and the family". :confused:

 

Anyways, I had a great relationship with their teacher, as did the kids. We still keep in touch.

[BamaTanya]

And, as a ps teacher, I can't see that any professional is trying to drive a wedge between the child and the family. Instead, many, many, many educators are trying to provide what is lacking in lots of families.

 

I taught for 8 years in an inner-city elementary school. High poverty. High transiency. 3/4 of the students had no father listed on the birth certificate. Many were in foster care or had been moved to relatives' homes when "mama got a new boyfriend." Many had parents who were prostitutes (with frequent visitors) and/or had parents in prison. Many ate NO meals at home and scarfed down every crumb on their breakfast and lunch platters. Some teachers bought clothes for the students. Some handed the students soap and a wash cloth to help them smell better (and be better accepted). Some kept an individual brush for a child who needed someone to fix her hair each morning. Children are abused and neglected and teachers sometimes help to rescue them from dangerous situations. I reported abuse more than once. A stripe across the face from an extension cord, for instance.

 

Having a class of students for more than one year means that less time is spent "learning class procedures." The teacher knows the child's family situation and learning strengths and weaknesses from the beginning of the year. The children have learned to work together as a learning community. I know when my son with Asperger's Syndrome was in elementary school, some of his classmates "adopted" him and helped him find his place in his books, helped him put his money in the snack machine, reminded him to put on or pull off his jacket, made sure his shoes were tied . . . Peer relationships can be beautiful for special children.

 

In the cases in my school, parents could choose to opt out if they thought the child/teacher wasn't a good fit or if they thought the child needed someone new. Of course, they didn't have to state their reasoning. It was just their choice to make.

 

Now, as a special ed teacher, if I am assigned to the same school, I'll have the same students (though part-time) for 3 years. The rapport teachers are able to build with families is SO helpful.

 

I do have to say, however, that I had a couple of classes that were so difficult I think I would have quit my job if I'd had to teach them again the next year!

 

Mostly, I think the practice is positive for the student and the teacher.

[Lovedtodeath]

Mrs. Crankypants was my third grade teacher. I wouldn't want her again. I did however, have lovely Mrs. Seahag for second and would have loved it if I stayed with her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:001_huh: :lol: :lol: Impish, I love your posts!

 

 

ETA: My degree program only covered PreK-3rd.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[eternalknot]

One of the primary purposes of public schooling is to drive a wedge between the child and the family, and make the child psychologically dependent upon the praise and approval of authority figures. To me, this seems like a perfectly logical step on that very Spartan road, and one of the reasons I am so very glad I homeschool.

 

-Robin

 

::shrug:: that psychological dependence is found in all family types, independent of the family's educational choice. It's evident even on this forum of homeschoolers. I think the more dangerous road is the one where we believe there is a one-size-fits-all way to educate, parent, or to live ... and that this one way is, naturally, our own way.

 

If I were to send my children to school outside the home, I'd give preference to a school that followed a "promote the teacher" program (or something resembling a Montessori program where one teacher taught three age levels). I think it's a wonderful idea. It doesn't threaten me in the slightest. I'd imagine that there is always an opt-out in place, even if a parent had to be assertive to obtain it - just as there is in place at nearly all schools, currently.

[Catherine]

After reading Hold Onto Your Kids, I had a much clearer understanding of what a healthy relationship between a teacher and small children should be-it works best if the child can transfer their parental attachment to the parent figure in the room, not the other kids. A skilled teacher knows this and cultivates it. Without this attachment, bullying, peer-attachments that are unhealthy grow quickly. I don't think a strong attachment between teachers and small children is a negative at all, I think it's a positive and my gut tells me it does not threaten the parental attachment at all.

 

That said, my ds went to Waldorf school for one year, had a horrible experience, and what choice did we have but to leave? It wasn't all the teacher's fault, but it was not a good fit, to say the least.

[SonshineLearner]

I believe that with a good teacher (and who wants a bad one?) moving the child from k-8th with the same teacher is great! That's how the schools are in ....Denmark?? I'd rather think of my child bonding with a teacher...than spending half the year getting to know them...and then being moved. It's part of the beauty of homeschooling...and I would want public school to be as much like home as possible. It's more like real life. Who would want to switch bosses every year? Or ballet instructors? etc.... You don't have to learn everyone's name...again...and if you hate the teacher...you switch.

Carrie

[SonshineLearner]

I do see your point. I don't think those who are promoting this idea are in on some sort of conspiracy, but it does seem to point to a particular trend.

 

The other day I read an article that made me cringe for a similar reason. The basic gist was that students are at the school from 6:30/7 in the morning until at least 5 in the evening and attend 210 days per year. They eat their breakfast, lunch, and dinner at the school. Each morning they start off with an assembly. Over the loud speaker the principle says something like "have a happy day of learning". That just gave me the chills. It was like something one would read in a freaky novel about some weird Utopia gone wrong.

 

 

Soon, when you have a baby, you'll be told when to have them report for "duty/school" and it'll be like...3 months old or something...so they can be taught by professionals...

 

Who would have thought? And WHERE were those professionals when I was puking from being pregnant...or trying to push the kid out?? (I could have used some help!!)

 

Carrie:-)

[TeacherZee]

I believe that with a good teacher (and who wants a bad one?) moving the child from k-8th with the same teacher is great! That's how the schools are in ....Denmark?? I'd rather think of my child bonding with a teacher...than spending half the year getting to know them...and then being moved. It's part of the beauty of homeschooling...and I would want public school to be as much like home as possible. It's more like real life. Who would want to switch bosses every year? Or ballet instructors? etc.... You don't have to learn everyone's name...again...and if you hate the teacher...you switch.

Carrie

 

Growing up in Sweden I had the same teacher grades 1-3 and 5-6 (we moved after 4th grade otherwise I would have had the same teacher 4-6). For me it worked great. My sister had some problems with my 4-6 grade teacher. My mum now says that she wishes she had realised just how big the problems were. I think it is generally a good idea because there is less of the "learning how things work" at the start of each term. I think it offers more security for those children where the parents are unwilling or unable to homeschool and I agree with PP that if there are problems parents would be more likely to kick up a stink if it is three years instead of just one.

[Impish]

I guess my negative experiences, both as a student and parent of a student colour my perception of the elementary public school system. Especially the parent part. Especially in this city. I shudder to think what would have happened to Diva if I'd been unaware of the option of homeschooling, and if she'd been left at the mercies of her 3rd grade teacher for consecutive years :eek:

 

I also think too, of friends of mine in the States, who have been given a hard time, including being threatened with truancy for taking their child out of school for a family vacation to see a sick grandmother. The school had to approve absences, and this one was not approved. The concept boggles my mind. I was under the mistaken idea that the child was actually you know...the PARENT'S legal responsibility, and that the PARENT'S had ultimate say, not the school.

 

Stories like that come to mind when I hear things like 'fostering teacher student bonding' and it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end.

 

Great. I'm becoming a conspiracy theorist.

 

Waiter! Drinks and tin foil hats for everyone! :party:

[Chris in VA]

One of the primary purposes of public schooling is to drive a wedge between the child and the family, and make the child psychologically dependent upon the praise and approval of authority figures. To me, this seems like a perfectly logical step on that very Spartan road, and one of the reasons I am so very glad I homeschool.

 

 

Wow. All the teachers I know would love the teachers and parents to team up for the kiddo's education. I've never heard a perspective like yours.

[Dobela]

Why even deal with those messy details? Just go into the clinic to donate your eggs. "They" will take care of the rest.

Have you read The Giver ? It describes just such a utopia.

[Sara R]

Soon, when you have a baby, you'll be told when to have them report for "duty/school" and it'll be like...3 months old or something...so they can be taught by professionals...

 

 

I think God made babies require frequent feedings and diapers in order to make them more difficult to institutionalize.

 

At least that's what I thought when my young babies were keeping me up at night.

[mommaduck]

Why even deal with those messy details? Just go into the clinic to donate your eggs. "They" will take care of the rest.

 

 

*flashbacks of Logan's Run*

 

:ack2:

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8zn8r_logans-run-1976-part-1

Edited June 12, 2009 by mommaduck

[Kathy in MD]

Montessori has the student ideally stay with the same teacher for at least 3 years, sometimes 6. Unfortunately my ds's 4th grade teacher left before the 5th grade so he lacked the continuity that he had in grades 1-3. However his new 5th grade teacher was the better teacher.

 

I also understand that in Italy, the teacher's stick with their class for many years. The parents do have the option to switch teachers and schools, though.

[Mom-ninja.]

Not to mention that these teachers will have to start from scratch and know everything there is to teach in all of those grades. So much for them being experts in their area of teaching.

 

 

 

Don't we, as homeschoolers, have to know about every subject? I'm not an expert in many subjects, but I feel completely confident to teach my kids.

 

 

 

Have you read The Giver ? It describes just such a utopia.

 

I was thinking of the same book. :D

 

 

 

I don't think it's a bad idea. I think students should bond with teachers. They spend enough time together.

[Garga]

Great. I'm becoming a conspiracy theorist.

 

:lol:

[Impish]

I think God made babies require frequent feedings and diapers in order to make them more difficult to institutionalize.

 

At least that's what I thought when my young babies were keeping me up at night.

No, God made babies that way to make new mothers more difficult to institutionalize...although they were often more willing to be :lol:

[Rosy]

The idea of teachers following kids through elementary school doesn't bother me...I do find it ironic, though, that we get people like Jesse Scaccia saying that kids *shouldn't* be homeschooled because they are trapped within the confines of the parent's perspective--never being confronted with other ideas about life, religion, morality, etc....I wonder if he would support the child be trapped within the confines of the teacher's perspective and worldview? I mean, the idea is to be exposed to many different kinds of people, not the same teacher and classmates for one's entire elementary experience, right?

 

I think the idea that children need the stability of a continuing relationship with their teacher is a tacit approval of homeschooling, or at least one aspect of it. Someone is seeing the need for kids to be taught by someone who knows and has a relationship with them.

[Karen sn]

I would have been thrilled to have Mrs. Ivey from Kindergarten all the way through 6th grade. I like the idea if you have a good teacher. Now, had Mrs. Clemmons (my 1st grade teacher) taken me all the way - I would have died.

 

But in an ideal situation it allows the teachers to figure out the kids the first year, their personalities, their learning styles, etc... and then build on that the second year instead of starting all over. I disagree with your sentiment somewhat in that if kids are in the school system wouldn't a good, long bond be better than having a new teacher every year? The shuffling these kids do is nauseating.

 

If they have to be away from home I hope that they ARE bonding with the person they spend all day with.

[Karen sn]

I

 

I also think too, of friends of mine in the States, who have been given a hard time, including being threatened with truancy for taking their child out of school for a family vacation to see a sick grandmother. The school had to approve absences, and this one was not approved. The concept boggles my mind. I was under the mistaken idea that the child was actually you know...the PARENT'S legal responsibility, and that the PARENT'S had ultimate say, not the school.

 

Stories like that come to mind when I hear things like 'fostering teacher student bonding' and it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end.

 

Great. I'm becoming a conspiracy theorist.

 

Waiter! Drinks and tin foil hats for everyone! :party:

 

So did the parents not go to grandma's?

And some conspiracy theories are based on fact.

[Karen sn]

They did have one teacher that the kids had a hard time with, and that teacher was let go. I think it's more likely that bad teachers get weeded out with this system than with the new-class-every-year system.

 

 

 

Good point. In a functioning school you could weed out the bad ones.

[Karen sn]

Over the loud speaker the principle says something like "have a happy day of learning". That just gave me the chills. It was like something one would read in a freaky novel about some weird Utopia gone wrong.

 

Brave New World.

[Karen sn]

....we get people like Jesse Scaccia saying that kids *shouldn't* be homeschooled because they are trapped within the confines of the parent's perspective--never being confronted with other ideas about life, religion, morality, etc....

 

Who is this stupid moronic person?

Does he think ANY child can live in a bubble?

[momsquared]

Looping (as it is called) can be both positive and negative. The schools that do it here give parents a choice whether they want to retain the same teacher or not.

 

I tend to totally disagree with public education being the demise of the nuclear family. Public education was around for decades before the family fell apart - so I doubt school is to blame. You are also looking at the student-teacher bonding from one side. You are an involved and caring parent. For the student that doesn't have that commitment at home, that teacher can be a life saver. Sadly, there are a lot more uninvolved parents than those that are involved - I don't blame the schools for this! Every school I have ever taught at has BEGGED for parents to be involved with little to no success. Therefore, for a lot of kids that teacher is all they have.

 

Just my two cents worth since I teach public school, am a parent, and can see the argument both ways.

[momsquared]

One of the primary purposes of public schooling is to drive a wedge between the child and the family, and make the child psychologically dependent upon the praise and approval of authority figures. To me, this seems like a perfectly logical step on that very Spartan road, and one of the reasons I am so very glad I homeschool.

 

-Robin

 

This is kind of laughable to me. I cannot think of one teacher in my educational life or career who ever felt this way. In fact - we are usually trying to get families involved. The school doesn't have to create this wedge - its already there!

 

Public schools were really developed in the U.S. to mass prepare students for factory life and assimilating a diverse population into the American melting pot. The shame on the schools is that 100 years later that model has not changed much when our society has.

[Carol in Cal.]

Sadly, there are a lot more uninvolved parents than those that are involved - I don't blame the schools for this! Every school I have ever taught at has BEGGED for parents to be involved with little to no success. QUOTE]

 

In my experience, when a group went for a charter application to a local school board, one of the main objections that the school board had to the premises of the charter was that it promoted (but left optional) parent involvement in the classroom and with the students' education. They said that there were privacy issues associated with parent volunteers, and that it was unacceptable. And this was at the middle school/high school level, not a bunch of little, tiny, defenseless kids!

 

Around here in the public school system, being able to volunteer at school is considered a priviledge that the school conveys that they can withdraw at any time. Parents are not considered to have a right to participate in their children's education on any level. The schools are not even required to tell the parents in advance when they cover controversial material so that the parents can opt out.

 

I don't demonize the schools, but they are set up to defend themselves against parents and students, not to serve them. It's more or less the nature of the beaurocracy, and it's not a moral issue as much as it is an organizational behavioral one. Teachers are not a fault for this, generally; it is the institution that causes it. I think that some can work within this effectively and some cannot, and some teachers can buck the system and not serve this dynamic, but the system does not reward them for doing so.

[Impish]

So did the parents not go to grandma's?

And some conspiracy theories are based on fact.

No, they went, and it caused a bunch of problems through the continuing school year. Thank God for the family that they went however, as Grandma passed away before the school year ended. If they had bowed to the pressure from the school, they wouldn't have been able to visit her one last time. :crying: They were caught in a situation however, that if the child were sick two more days during the entire school year, they would have been charged with truancy or some such garbage for too many days missed. Insanity.

 

In the same vein, I know another family that got a warning letter home from PRESCHOOL because Mom took her dd out for two weeks. Why? Because Daddy was home on leave from Afghanistan. Seriously. Child was about to be kicked out of flippin PRESCHOOL because Mom dared to have her child out for two weeks cause her Soldier Daddy was home.

 

I couldn't make this crap up.

 

And for the record, I don't think that teachers have any desire to create a wedge between the students and family. The teachers don't make policy. They're only the folks on the front line, dealing with the fall out of it, for good or bad. I have a cousin whose a teacher, and a good friend that is as well, so I hear their struggle and frustration with many policies that are implemented that they have no say in, don't always agree with, but have no choice but to follow. Schools are a government institution at the end of the day, and run by the government, not the teachers. I don't trust the GOVERNMENT to always have the best interest of families in mind, nope. One judge announced, in ruling against homeschooling in California, that public school is about creating 'good citizens'. To me, that was both a truthful statement, and a frightening one.

[Impish]

About parents volunteering...I tried to when Diva was in ps. Was turned down every year. They didn't want parents in the classroom, period. I was given things to do at home, but parents were considered a 'distraction' in the classroom.