pooh bear Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Tell me what you think of this story Kilt Story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 What is a 'prop for an art project'? Does that mean he was posing for the drawing class? Or does it mean some kind of performance art!:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Tell me what you think of this story Kilt Story I think they should let him wear it. Cross dressing? Give me a break. I love men in kilts, especially these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhudson Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 My dh wore a kilt in our wedding (he's from Scottish descent and from a very Scottish family) and one of our sons has a kilt although the other flatly refuses. My only question would be whether he was wearing it "regimental" (anything underneath?)? If not, I could see a school objecting, otherwise it should be allowed. Kilt's are not cross-dressing. Liam Neeson, and Mel Gibson were very manly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Oh for heaven's sake. Cross dressing. *sigh* :banghead: (I'm not actually angry, there's just no head banging on desk emotie) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I love men in kilts, especially these. I loved the video, Pam! :lol::lol::lol: And why don't any of my neighbors look like that guy? :drool: If any of my neighbors wore a kilt, I might have to move. :ack2: Cat PS. I can't imagine how anyone would mistake a kilt for a skirt. Unless maybe the kid was wearing it with a halter top and pumps... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 PS. I can't imagine how anyone would mistake a kilt for a skirt. Unless maybe the kid was wearing it with a halter top and pumps... ;) :lol: CAT! I almost spit out my daquiri reading this comment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherryTX Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I think it was right to ask them to apologize to the kid. Their is nothing wrong with kilts. My brother in law wore one when he married my sister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 My son has a formal kilt for bagpiping. If he had an informal one, he'd wear it every day - he loves kilts. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen sn Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Cross dressing? Bwah ha ha ha...... Oh, I needed that. How OLD is this proncipal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Is the problem possibly that he wasn't wearing any, er, uh, undies beneath his kilt? ;) Ginger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I have no problems with kilts. I can't see how they can be construed as cross dressing and I take GREAT offense to cross dressing due to some childhood issues. To call wearing a kilt cross dressing, is silly. Though I believe only those who are Scottish or in a bagpipe band should wear them out of respect for that culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy in Va Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Being the mother of a ds who has been known to "cross dress" on a couple of occasions (backwards day at school and Halloween), I can definitely say that wearing a kilt is not cross dressing. What was this guy thinking? But hey, I'm the mom who just dyed a t-shirt pink for her ds to wear in a school opera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Inappropriate for wear in school, and yet another reason we should return to school uniforms. As to the "cultural" argument, let’s be serious. Are we also going to allow other cultures to wear their national dress? We all know how "little" women from Polynesia traditionally wore, how about the fact that in some Arab cultures a man is never outside the house without a dagger....where do we stop? The boy was wearing it as "a prop for an art project", i.e. as a gimmick. It was intended to get attention and while this may have a place in art class it certainly does not in math class. The principal was right and the boy was just being a boy who needed guidance (obviously not something he was getting from his parents). That anyone would actually suggest that an adult apologize to a child for not allowing the child to wear a kilt in school just boggles the mind. What is this world coming to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I don't have a problem with a boy wearing a kilt to class. Was it against the rules in the school handbook? If not, what's the problem? It definitely is *not* cross dressing. It smacks of a school official exerting power over a child just because they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I agree with the principal, kilts could be misconstrued as cross-dressing, by a dolt. What about girls in pants and short hair? Isn't there a little cross-dressing action there? Don't these people stop to think and ask, oh I don't know, their secretary, a couple of teachers, if what they're thinking is stoopid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakblossoms Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 As long as he had underwear on it's fine;) And, while we are talking about kilts... I saw the hunkiest guy at Costco the other day. He was in a kilt. Normally if you see a guy in a kilt in Washington, he is a bit of a punk (which can be rather cute, too). But, this guy was clean shaven and well giggle, giggle cute. Even my mom giggled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycalling Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 My husband and his friends all wear kilts often. They even wear them out and women love it. Our sons are going to get kilts of their own by Christmas, hopefully. Nothing sexier than a man in a kilt.;) - They each even own that exact Utilikilt from PiCO's link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Inappropriate for wear in school, and yet another reason we should return to school uniforms. As to the "cultural" argument, let’s be serious. Are we also going to allow other cultures to wear their national dress? We all know how "little" women from Polynesia traditionally wore, how about the fact that in some Arab cultures a man is never outside the house without a dagger....where do we stop? The boy was wearing it as "a prop for an art project", i.e. as a gimmick. It was intended to get attention and while this may have a place in art class it certainly does not in math class. The principal was right and the boy was just being a boy who needed guidance (obviously not something he was getting from his parents). That anyone would actually suggest that an adult apologize to a child for not allowing the child to wear a kilt in school just boggles the mind. What is this world coming to? :glare::001_huh: Wow! :chillpill: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I think it's ironic that the spokesperson fr. the school district was named Taggart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldjoy Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Is cross dressing against rules in most schools? Unless there is a uniform code, I guess I am wondering about the "fairness" of that rule??? e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loupelou Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Inappropriate for wear in school, and yet another reason we should return to school uniforms. As to the "cultural" argument, let’s be serious. Are we also going to allow other cultures to wear their national dress? We all know how "little" women from Polynesia traditionally wore, how about the fact that in some Arab cultures a man is never outside the house without a dagger....where do we stop? The boy was wearing it as "a prop for an art project", i.e. as a gimmick. It was intended to get attention and while this may have a place in art class it certainly does not in math class. The principal was right and the boy was just being a boy who needed guidance (obviously not something he was getting from his parents). That anyone would actually suggest that an adult apologize to a child for not allowing the child to wear a kilt in school just boggles the mind. What is this world coming to? I have to respectfully disagree with this post. Where the principal went wrong was in suggesting that his kilt might be construed as cross-dressing. Whether or not the boy was going for some shock value or he was wearing this kilt as a sign of his cultural heritage is beside the point. Your post also suggests that wearing a kilt is akin to women uncovering their top half:001_huh:. In Polynesian cultures the men do still wear their long style skirts. Also suggesting that it is anywhere near the same as wielding a weapon is a little far fetched. I think it depends on how you view the wearing of a kilt. If you see it as ridiculous and silly then you probably would side with the principal's argument. However, if you view the wearing of a kilt as a symbolism of a strong and proud tradition then I can see how you would be very offended. They had a similar case in Kansas City a couple of years ago in which a boy wore his kilt to a school dance and was barred from attending until he changed. He also received an apology and the clan was behind him in that case. My .02, I am now stepping down from the soapbox:D! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I have seen some of the most masculine men in kilts. hmmm, maybe I should buy hubby a kilt.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivetails Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Inappropriate for wear in school Why? From what I read, a kilt is male clothing, traditional, and - nowadays - often viewed as formal wear, similar to wearing a suit. He wasn't wearing a house dress & heels.;) He was wearing a formal, traditional, male item of clothing. It may not be common in the area the student lives in, or in his school, but that doesn't automatically equal inappropriate. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 It takes a very manly man to wear a kilt. And I don't know about the rest of you but I would tell a man in kilt he couldn't wear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherInWI Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Very Scots here, and very pro-kilts in general -- However, whether or not it was appropriate depends upon the school dress code/uniform policy, which the article does not cite. I have to agree with another poster who pointed out that just because something is cultural does not make it appropriate for all occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Very Scots here, and very pro-kilts in general -- However, whether or not it was appropriate depends upon the school dress code/uniform policy, which the article does not cite. I have to agree with another poster who pointed out that just because something is cultural does not make it appropriate for all occasions. I agree with you Heather and pqr, but the principal didn't cite dress code, or at least it's no where to be found in the news link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I agree with you Heather and pqr, but the principal didn't cite dress code, or at least it's no where to be found in the news link. Perhaps there *is* something in the code about cross dressing and that's why the principal used that term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Maybe the principal was just jealous because the kid had nicer legs than he did. ;) Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 The boy was wearing it as "a prop for an art project", i.e. as a gimmick. Um, why does "prop for an art project" = "gimmick"??? That seems a pretty big assumption. The article says nothing about the art project, or what it meant to the student. Some kids, my daughter being one, take their art very seriously, and consider it a deeply personal form of expression. It was intended to get attention and while this may have a place in art class it certainly does not in math class. I don't remember anything in the article discussing or even implying anything about the student's intentions . . . ? a boy who needed guidance (obviously not something he was getting from his parents). Wow, now you're jumping to conclusions about the parents too! Did you notice the student's last name? Do you think that maybe a Scottish family could have a very different view of this than you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Wow, now you're jumping to conclusions about the parents too! Did you notice the student's last name? Do you think that maybe a Scottish family could have a very different view of this than you do? Yep. Oy! Let the kid alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewday Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Tell me what you think of this story Kilt Story I wonder if the principal doesn't have enough real issues and problems to have to deal with in his school. Which is a nice problem to have, I guess. But too bad for the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Did you notice the student's last name? Do you think that maybe a Scottish family could have a very different view of this than you do? Quite honestly I do not care what the student's last name is. School is no place to wear a kilt, an abaya, a thwab or a grass skirt for that matter. The poster who argued that one cannot compare a kilt to the traditional topless wear in the South Pacific completely misses the point. If you are going to argue that cultural (but not normal) dress from a western nation is acceptable then I defy you to argue that dress from other regions is not. Dare one say that that smacks of elitism? Are you arguing that the only acceptable modes of dress come from western nations? Of course not, but you are being biased and I would have thought that those of you who are more "progressive" would be more open. I, on the other hand, being traditional, supporting uniforms and uniformity in schools am wholeheartedly behind the principal. I do not insult Scots when I say that kilts have no place in school just as I do not insult Moslem Arabs when I say that the abaya has no place. Further I am willing to argue that in Western nations we should wear dress that conforms to western ideals of morality. I know of no Scottish blood in my veins, nevertheless the martial spirit and élan of the highlanders is worthy of respect, but that does not extend to wearing a kilt in school. If you want to wear it in the mall or on Main Street go ahead but not in school. A kilt is uncommon enough that it is a distraction and that is not needed in school. In my experience Scots typically wear kilts for formal occasions or when advertizing for a restaurant, not in school. This boy would be an aberration even in Scotland. I might give a pass to wearing it on St Andrew’s day, or when he tosses a caber, but that is about it. I would ask other questions. Most of us, on this board, agree that there has been a precipitous drop in the quality of education in public schools. The difference between the education our grandparents received and that which schools, today, try to shovel onto our children is immense. Does it not seem that when schools started playing these silly games about dress, behavior, hair etc that this was indicative of the general decline? It certainly represented a reduction in standards. What do you think the reaction would have been in 1950 to some child wearing a kilt in school? Here we have a principal who is trying to maintain standards and on a board populated by people who ostensibly support high standards there are calls for an adult to apologize to a child. This adult did no more that attempt to maintain standards. What is this world coming to? As to the argument about cross dressing we are all in agreement—stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 If you are going to argue that cultural (but not normal) dress from a western nation is acceptable then I defy you to argue that dress from other regions is not. ... I, on the other hand, being traditional, supporting uniforms and uniformity in schools am wholeheartedly behind the principal. Actually, I really wasn't attempting to argue whether or not the kilt was in defiance of the school dress code, or was acceptable or not. The point I was attempting to make is that you were jumping to conclusions by saying that the parents of this boy give him no guidance. By pointing out that his last name is Scottish, I was trying to show that for these parents, this issue probably had something to do with their cultural heritage, and little or nothing to do with the permissiveness you ascribe to them, and the rebelliousness, attention-seeking, and disruptive behaviors that you attribute to the son. It is at least as likely that they never imagined that such a ridiculous brouhaha would come of the action, as it is that they were neglectful, as you implied. I wasn't questioning the school dress code as much as your assuming the worst possible intentions of the boy and his parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Actually, I really wasn't attempting to argue whether or not the kilt was in defiance of the school dress code, or was acceptable or not. The point I was attempting to make is that you were jumping to conclusions by saying that the parents of this boy give him no guidance. By pointing out that his last name is Scottish, I was trying to show that for these parents, this issue probably had something to do with their cultural heritage, and little or nothing to do with the permissiveness you ascribe to them, and the rebelliousness, attention-seeking, and disruptive behaviors that you attribute to the son. It is at least as likely that they never imagined that such a ridiculous brouhaha would come of the action, as it is that they were neglectful, as you implied. I wasn't questioning the school dress code as much as your assuming the worst possible intentions of the boy and his parents.:iagree: The poster who argued that one cannot compare a kilt to the traditional topless wear in the South Pacific completely misses the point. If you are going to argue that cultural (but not normal) dress from a western nation is acceptable then I defy you to argue that dress from other regions is not. Dare one say that that smacks of elitism? Are you arguing that the only acceptable modes of dress come from western nations? Of course not, but you are being biased and I would have thought that those of you who are more "progressive" would be more open.I find that what you are accusing all that don't strictly agree with you--"being biased", "elitism" (huh?) and not being more open, applies exactly to you and how you stated your opinion! Since we don't really know the reason he was wearing the kilt, maybe this whole thread is meaningless? If we had every single detail, I think we'd be able to better see each side of the story and draw conclusions based on fact. And it surprises me that you wonder "what is this world coming to?" because people think something different than you do about wearing a kilt! Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see this as of such huge importance. It's just a discussion, a FRIENDLY discussion, of ideas people may have. Slamming others and name-calling really shouldn't be a part of this discussion, imho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 pqr, are you against the wearing of hijabs, scarves, and kippahs to school also? Or certain other attires that are culturally/religiously different? What about a boy with uncut hair to his waist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Quite honestly I do not care what the student's last name is. School is no place to wear a kilt, an abaya, a thwab or a grass skirt for that matter. I, on the other hand, being traditional, supporting uniforms and uniformity in schools am wholeheartedly behind the principal. I do not insult Scots when I say that kilts have no place in school just as I do not insult Moslem Arabs when I say that the abaya has no place. Further I am willing to argue that in Western nations we should wear dress that conforms to western ideals of morality. Although I wonder greatly with regard to anyone who thinks whether or not one wears a kilt to be a moral issue, I'll leave that alone. This comes down to one point and one point *only*. The school does NOT have a uniform code or this would be moot. The school does NOT have a policy forbidding children to wear a kilt or this would be moot. The only *logical* reason for the principal to compare wearing a kilt to cross dressing is because that's the only justification in the school rule book. If it doesn't break a school rule or the school dress code then the school has no authority to tell the child not to wear it. I would ask other questions. Most of us, on this board, agree that there has been a precipitous drop in the quality of education in public schools. The difference between the education our grandparents received and that which schools, today, try to shovel onto our children is immense. Does it not seem that when schools started playing these silly games about dress, behavior, hair etc that this was indicative of the general decline? It certainly represented a reduction in standards. What do you think the reaction would have been in 1950 to some child wearing a kilt in school? There are a LOT of things that wouldn't happen in 1950. Change and progress are good things. Children aren't robots and people should treat them as such. Frankly, that attitude is more than half the reason my children ARE NOT in school. Here we have a principal who is trying to maintain standards and on a board populated by people who ostensibly support high standards there are calls for an adult to apologize to a child. This adult did no more that attempt to maintain standards. What is this world coming to? There is no "standard" to adhere to in this case. Standards are set out in dress codes and rule books. If you want all boys to wear pants and nothing else then it needs to be in the rule book. If it isn't then it is a school official usurping the rights of the child and his parents. Which is unacceptable in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 The cross-dressing aspect is irrelevant, imo. I think that getting hung up on the gender identity of clothes is a bit silly - - if pants are allowed under the school dress code, then boys and girls alike should be free to wear them. If skirts are allowed under the school dress code, then boys and girls alike should be free to wear them. If there are modesty rules, that's fine; they will apply to boys and girls alike. And, if this principal can spend all this time worrying about a boy in a kilt, he isn't busy enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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