Why only Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking on your door?

[OnTheBrink]

I've had Mormons and JW's come to my door. I've found the JW's come around Easter time. Last year, one came to my door and tried to (literally) push her literature at me and I politely refused it. She got angry at me, threw her hands in the air and literally stormed off my porch. What-ever!

 

I have no problem with them doing their door-to-door thing; but if I politely express that I have no need for your literature, you may politely leave without having a hissy. That's the first time I've ever had a JW act that way; usually, they express subtle dismay, but leave peacefully.

[littlebug42]

I always feel sorry for those that come door to door in our neighborhood. I live in an older, inner city neighborhood that literally was built around the Catholic church on the corner. On my block alone, 8-10 houses are all members of our parish. Most of the neighborhood has numbers like this so it is definitely an uphill battle for them.

[stripe]

So now I want to know why it would matter if you said you were Jewish? Is there some sort of code that means "run away" if you hear that faith mentioned? I am kind of cracking up. If they are there to convert folks, why do Jewish folks get a pass? :D

 

I received from Sonlight an email supposedly about homeschooling that addressed their desire to convert various "unreached" peoples -- Tribals, Hindus, Unreligious (Chinese), Muslims, and Buddhists (their "cute" acronym being THUMB). I was surprised to receive this, but I found it helpful to know the true nature of their organization. Anyway, one can observe the conspicous absence of Jews on that list.

 

I think it is generally seen as politically unwise and Hitler-esque to appear to target Jews for conversion to Christianity. And also there's the matter of some people's view of the end of time, in which a Jewish population in Jerusalem is essential.

 

I think JWs do not limit themselves. Don't they consider most mainstream Christian belief to be corrupt, anyway? All that business of "Christendom" in their tracts.

[HRAAB]

Children follow Jesus' footsteps closely also. Why would they NOT follow what Jesus says for Christians to do?

The other thing is that children WANT to. They often are "like little children" mentioned in the Bible. They fully believe and they don't hold back their dedication. I mean, if you believe, you would follow your faith, wouldn't you? That would be the case whether you were 7 or 107.

 

Of course, children still have to learn things also. I'm sure that the parents are able to redirect the children later, "remember when that lady at the 2nd house said 'no thank you?' You can say ______ in that situation. And here is why...." Even adults give each other feedback such as "I like how you..." and "I might have used this scripture in that situation." My daughter has said to me, "I thought you were going to say ______ when that man said XYZ. That is one of your favorite scriptural points."

 

The children who talk at your door have chosen to do so out of love of God and neighbor. Preaching is an integral part of our faith. I was one of these children, and I know that it would be a devastating blow to not allow them.

 

(FWIW I have not always been a Witness. I decided to leave for a time, so I can understand when people are not interested, I wasn't either... it wasn't a good move on my part, so I came back.) There have been many people whose response was "not interested" that have quickly or not so quickly changed their mind and these people are so thankful that the Witnesses still tried to share something with them.

 

Thank you both for answering. It was a sincere question. I've never seen this with LDS or Evangelicals - the others that are apt to knock on my door. I guess it seemed awkward to me. Here was this child, probably 10 or so (looked to be the age of my dd) and me, 48 years old, talking to me like he was my peer. I would have had to get down on my knees to look him in the eye. When I said no, thank you, and he went right on, I felt that was out of line. You know, I'm the adult. At this point, if it were an adult, I might get an edge to my voice, but I didn't feel comfortable doing that with a child. Just wanted you to understand why I was uncomfortable with it. Perhaps his father said something afterwards, but during the conversation, his father said nothing. I've had this happen twice. Because of this past experience, I will in the future speak to the adult. I feel more on equal footing with the adult - if he pushes, I don't feel bad pushing back.

 

And just so you know, I totally support your right and desire to try to spread your faith. I have no issue with that at all. That is a freedom I cherish. You're free to knock at my door, but I shouldn't have to repeat my no. That's all.

 

I hope my question wasn't seen as rude; I really didn't mean it that way.

 

Janet

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I hope my question wasn't seen as rude; I really didn't mean it that way.

I did not assume that you did. I hope I didn't come accross that way.

[Sharon H in IL]

I've got alot of visit from many different religion. I guess living in the city people just assume that you need saving.:)

 

Or maybe they've just heard stories about ya. :lol::lol:

[HRAAB]

I did not assume that you did. I hope I didn't come accross that way.

 

No, not at all. No worries. Actually, I enjoying discussing religion/theology. I would just much rather do it with a friend over a cup of tea.

 

Janet

[Vida Winter]

We lived in Salt Lake City for 3 years and we were never approached by an evangelical LDS person. I always thought that was odd. Our neighborhood was probably 80% LDS. Maybe they thought they had done a good enough job there already.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I would just much rather do it with a friend over a cup of tea.

 

Hee hee....invite the next Witness in for tea :) You'll have a new friend and we like tea...and cookies too! LOL

 

(though for some REALLY odd reason, I'm always doing low-carb when I get offered cookies. Isn't that weird?)

Edited April 4, 2009 by 2J5M9K
grammar

[Spy Car]

After watching the film recommended by Pamela (H in Texas) in a thread on Holocaust resources, focusing on the heroism of the Witnesses in standing up against Nazism, I have to say the next time a Witness shows up on my door-set (assuming I haven't scared them off permanently :tongue_smilie:) they are going to get a big hug, and hear heart-felt admiration from me for how their people met evil with absolute bravery.

 

http://ia311332.us.archive.org/3/items/WatchTowerBibleandTractSocietyofPennsylvaniaJehovah_sWitnessesStandFirmAgainstNaziAs/JehovahsWitnessesStandFirmAgainstNaziAssault.mov

 

Bill

Edited April 4, 2009 by Spy Car

[TravelingChris]

When we lived in Belgium, I had JW come by once to visit us. Now Belgium doesn't allow JW to do their visits. I did speak limited French and they didn't speak English. So I told them I wasn't interested in their magazine but I did give them a short civics lesson on how great the US is with our freedom of religion. I could say that in French but didn't have the vocabultary to discuss our varying theological viewpoints.

 

I think in Florida we had Mormons once and JS once and both times we said no thank you, we have a church.

[lionfamily1999]

We get all kinds. I can remember one time, a Seventh Day Adventist showed up. I'd never even heard of that denomination before. We had a very enlightening time, sitting on the porch, chatting it up. I've never been scared of people that are trying to save my soul, seems counterintuitive to me, to be scared of someone taking their life in their own hands, in order to rescue me. I have never had an issue with rudeness or refusal to leave and I wonder at the stories I've read where that is an issue. Again, it seems so much the opposite of their goal, huffing and puffing and throwing a hissy fit.

 

I used to go around with my youth group, from church, and invite people to services or just talk to them. We never had a problem discussing things other than God, our purpose was to spread charity and love and if that meant sitting with a lonely person for a few hours discussing news, politics, whatever, then that's what we did.

 

Anyway, a 'no soliciting' sign can put an end to it, if it's an issue. Then, even those pesky scouts will have to leave you alone ;)

[Lovedtodeath]

Bill, thanks. :grouphug:

 

but I did give them a short civics lesson on how great the US is with our freedom of religion.

 

We are very much aware of that freedom of religion, as we have fought for it from the time our brothers were put in jail in America, for preaching. One of those times was May 7, 1918. More examples: There were arrests for group witnessing in the United States in 1928 (500), 1933 (268), 1934 (340), 1935 (478), 1936 (1,149). In 1950 nationalism swept the nation and resulted in over 10,000 arrests of the Witnesses for remaining politically neutral.

 

We know our brothers are persecuted in other countries, such as Georgia for preaching and Rwanda for maintaining political neutrality, among many others. In 1928 in Germany there were 1,660 legal proceedings initiated against the Bible Students. In Romania the law was on their side, but they still had over 530 lawsuits in the 1930's. When the Witnesses prevailed in court, the police stopped arresting people and started beating and confiscating literature instead.

 

When I was a newborn baby my parents lost custody of me because of our stand against blood transfusions. (Acts 15:28, 29, Gen 9:3-6) As a ward of the court I was treated horrifically and have health and mental problems as a result to this day.

 

We are also aware that this could happen to us again at any time.

[joannqn]

We used to get visits from JWs and Mormons regularly despite our politely refusing them every time. It's been so long since we've been visited by either the JW or the Mormons that I think we've been blacklisted.

 

The last time a JW stopped by our house was more than 9 years ago. These two ladies made a habit of stopping by monthly despite me being clearly uninterested. They showed up when I was in labor (homebirth) and my husband answered. He told them it wasn't a good time, that I was in labor. They ignored him, continued talking, pushing a "coloring book for the new baby" at him (like a newborn is going to color?), until he simply shut the door in their face.

 

I have no idea why we haven't had an Mormons visit. We've never had to be rude to them. I've also thought about putting them to work as we have tons of work that needs to be done, but I don't want to give the impression I'm interested or willing to talk religion with them.

[Lovedtodeath]

The last time a JW stopped by our house was more than 9 years ago. These two ladies made a habit of stopping by monthly despite me being clearly uninterested. They showed up when I was in labor (homebirth) and my husband answered. He told them it wasn't a good time, that I was in labor. They ignored him, continued talking, pushing a "coloring book for the new baby" at him (like a newborn is going to color?),

I find that whole situation immensely strange,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And even more so as we do not now, nor have we ever had coloring books.

[Lovedtodeath]

We get all kinds. I can remember one time, a Seventh Day Adventist showed up.

I had a Seventh Day Adventist that I worked with when I wasn't a Witness. It was very exciting talking about theology with her. I knew the group existed, but very little of what they believed.

 

Anyway, a 'no soliciting' sign can put an end to it, if it's an issue. Then, even those pesky scouts will have to leave you alone ;)

Last time I went door to door, we did not consider it soliciting. That could have changed, as I have not been in shape to go since having the last kid.

[lionfamily1999]

I had a Seventh Day Adventist that I worked with when I wasn't a Witness. It was very exciting talking about theology with her. I knew the group existed, but very little of what they believed.

 

Last time I went door to door, we did not consider it soliciting. That could have changed, as I have not been in shape to go since having the last kid.

I find their theology very interesting, too.

 

I was always told, if there's a no soliciting sign, you don't knock, period. That's why I said that. Even when going around with my youth group, we skipped the 'no soliciting' places, because they pretty clearly did not want anyone at their door. Not to say that witnessing is soliciting, simply that the sign is an indicator of 'you are not welcome here.'

 

I've never had the bad experiences described, I haven't even had issues with rudeness. It is always surprising to me, the animosity felt towards religious people going door to door. It's an effort to save your (not you, but you know what I mean) life, your eternal soul. I'd be more hurt if they didn't put any effort into it than if they showed up twice a year. But then, I'm wierd.

[SherryTX]

I find it interesting that it is assumed to be "to random names." EVERYTHING JWs do is EXTREMELY organized. If I were to do letter writing, I would write letters to people in the territory I checked out that hadn't been home in the two times I tried in the last couple weeks or because a letter writing territory was given to me due to my inability to go out in service for another reason (health, mult chem sensitivity, etc). Our congregation also has phone territories for our area.

 

As for being happy with their own religion--MANY people are. But many people are not. They either haven't found a path to be happy with, believe there is possibly a reason to consider another, or whatever. And really, the Jews and Pagans and such in the 1st century included many people that were happy with their religion also. Many were not convinced to consider what Christ's disciples at that time preached and taught. So the disciples went to the next house, the next town, etc.

 

Contrary to what people believe, we do NOT go out to convert other people (and the process for conversion for those who choose to is involved). We follow the admonition to preach and to teach. From there, it's completely between God and the person.

 

ETA: JFWIW, most of the information in Sherry's post is correct. There are some things that aren't true, but that could be something like how long ago her experience was or something.

 

Oh, and someone mentioned the time they call. When this is really depends on your area. Saturday morning is the biggest time people go out in this country, but we have a pretty strong group on Wed and Fri mornings and at least some in all 3 afternoons. Of course, some people go out just about every day as it works for them (between work, children, other responsibilities). If you don't mind visits, you might outline naptime as a bad time.

 

Could you point out what is not correct? I based this on my personal experience, and yes it has been a while, so I would appreciate it if you could point out which things are no longer the case. I am curious, but I also wouldn't want to say it is done this way, if things have changed.

 

Anyway, if anything I wrote is no longer correct, please understand it was when I was a JW and involved in field service. There was no intention of trying to mislead anyone. Although not in the org. any more, I do often speak up when I hear people state misunderstandings about what a JW may believe. (I find it very annoying, actually, when I hear people think they don't believe in Jesus. That seems to be the most common misconception!)

 

(And I agree - there is nothing "random" about the work. JW's taking their door to door work very seriously. That is why it bothers me when they are sometimes mistreated at the door. Despite what some not familiar with JWs believe, "field service" isn't just a responsibility, but a precious privilege. At least it was considered such when I was a child and an adult in service.)

[KarenNC]

It is always surprising to me, the animosity felt towards religious people going door to door. It's an effort to save your (not you, but you know what I mean) life, your eternal soul. I'd be more hurt if they didn't put any effort into it than if they showed up twice a year. But then, I'm wierd.

 

Do you think you might feel differently if the folks coming to your door were, say, Hare Krishnas? Wiccan? Voudoun? Unification (if that's the correct term)? Santeria?

 

If it weren't only once or twice a year for a couple of minutes with a polite person who went away when you said "no, thanks" but instead was everywhere you turned, all year long? If it were plastered on your car, left in your library books, stuck on gas pumps, screamed at you from street corners, mailed to your house, sent in email, etc?

 

If representatives of that overall religion (not necessarily that particular individual or group) deliberately targeted your young children for covert proselytization "for the good of their souls" and got offended if you said "that's wrong"? Advertised summer science camps for your elementary aged children, without mentioning that the focus of that summer camp was actually going to be participating in religious rituals honoring other Deities? Taught their children to tell children of your that they and their parents are ****ed to eternal torment for being different?

 

Would you still feel "hurt if they didn't put any effort into it"?

 

Note: I am not saying that JW's do these things, but they are indeed done by various Christian groups in our area. It is not one incident of someone knocking at a door that's the problem---it is the sum of all the incidents that happen all the time to folks who are members of a minority religion.

[SherryTX]

Do you think you might feel differently if the folks coming to your door were, say, Hare Krishnas? Wiccan? Voudoun? Unification (if that's the correct term)? Santeria?

 

If it weren't only once or twice a year for a couple of minutes with a polite person who went away when you said "no, thanks" but instead was everywhere you turned, all year long? If it were plastered on your car, left in your library books, stuck on gas pumps, screamed at you from street corners, mailed to your house, sent in email, etc?

 

If representatives of that overall religion (not necessarily that particular individual or group) deliberately targeted your young children for covert proselytization "for the good of their souls" and got offended if you said "that's wrong"? Advertised summer science camps for your elementary aged children, without mentioning that the focus of that summer camp was actually going to be participating in religious rituals honoring other Deities? Taught their children to tell children of your that they and their parents are ****ed to eternal torment for being different?

 

Would you still feel "hurt if they didn't put any effort into it"?

 

Note: I am not saying that JW's do these things, but they are indeed done by various Christian groups in our area. It is not one incident of someone knocking at a door that's the problem---it is the sum of all the incidents that happen all the time to folks who are members of a minority religion.

 

Well said, Karen. Well said!

[Audrey]

Do you think you might feel differently if the folks coming to your door were, say, Hare Krishnas? Wiccan? Voudoun? Unification (if that's the correct term)? Santeria?

 

If it weren't only once or twice a year for a couple of minutes with a polite person who went away when you said "no, thanks" but instead was everywhere you turned, all year long? If it were plastered on your car, left in your library books, stuck on gas pumps, screamed at you from street corners, mailed to your house, sent in email, etc?

 

If representatives of that overall religion (not necessarily that particular individual or group) deliberately targeted your young children for covert proselytization "for the good of their souls" and got offended if you said "that's wrong"? Advertised summer science camps for your elementary aged children, without mentioning that the focus of that summer camp was actually going to be participating in religious rituals honoring other Deities? Taught their children to tell children of your that they and their parents are ****ed to eternal torment for being different?

 

Would you still feel "hurt if they didn't put any effort into it"?

 

Note: I am not saying that JW's do these things, but they are indeed done by various Christian groups in our area. It is not one incident of someone knocking at a door that's the problem---it is the sum of all the incidents that happen all the time to folks who are members of a minority religion.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

And FWIW, I don't actually feel animosity for people going door-to-door unless they don't leave when I say I'm not interested. We get very few at our door (farmyard, big dog, not too many try it). I feel kind of sorry for the few who have tried and been met by a (not particularly dangerous, but overenthusiastic) huge dog.

 

I only get pissy if someone pushes it on me. I'm willing to discuss IF I'm in the mood, but the witnessing types are not in it for discussion. They're in it for conversion.

 

And there is where I say, "not interested. Move along, please."

[lionfamily1999]

Do you think you might feel differently if the folks coming to your door were, say, Hare Krishnas? Wiccan? Voudoun? Unification (if that's the correct term)? Santeria?

 

If it weren't only once or twice a year for a couple of minutes with a polite person who went away when you said "no, thanks" but instead was everywhere you turned, all year long? If it were plastered on your car, left in your library books, stuck on gas pumps, screamed at you from street corners, mailed to your house, sent in email, etc?

 

If representatives of that overall religion (not necessarily that particular individual or group) deliberately targeted your young children for covert proselytization "for the good of their souls" and got offended if you said "that's wrong"? Advertised summer science camps for your elementary aged children, without mentioning that the focus of that summer camp was actually going to be participating in religious rituals honoring other Deities? Taught their children to tell children of your that they and their parents are ****ed to eternal torment for being different?

 

Would you still feel "hurt if they didn't put any effort into it"?

 

Note: I am not saying that JW's do these things, but they are indeed done by various Christian groups in our area. It is not one incident of someone knocking at a door that's the problem---it is the sum of all the incidents that happen all the time to folks who are members of a minority religion.

Frankly, I don't believe you. I do not believe that there is some place that is so incredibly 'religious' that your car is 'plastered' with their tracts, that people intent on conversion follow you everywhere, or scream at you from street corners. If you actually live in such a place, I can't imagine why you would stay.

 

I'm so tired of people exaggerating the truth, to the hoots and agreements of others, in order to bash a handful of people. You don't like them, fine, but don't put yourself among the ranks of those that lie to make your point. Normal people know that gays are not making out on every street corner or attempting to 'date' every straight person they come upon. Normal people know that race has little to do with crime rates. Normal people know that these attempts at disparagment are nothing more than lies based on the tiniest nuggets of truth. Normal people know that no one's cars are 'plastered' with tracts and that the only religious people screaming from street corners are suffering from twisted minds (that has nothing to do with their actual religion).

 

Keep adding to the falsities. Go ahead. It doesn't make it true. Your exaggerations do not make it true, neither do the happy agreements you may get. It just puts you right there with people that make others out to be evil or the enemy by making things up.

 

As for the few tracts you might get every few months, or the few people that may ring your bell. They are doing these things in hopes of creating a positive, they are hoping to uplift you and the world, regardless of their religion. What was your goal with the bashing and exaggeration?

[Melinda in VT]

Frankly, I don't believe you. I do not believe that there is some place that is so incredibly 'religious' that your car is 'plastered' with their tracts, that people intent on conversion follow you everywhere, or scream at you from street corners. If you actually live in such a place, I can't imagine why you would stay.

 

I'm pretty sure calling another poster a liar is against the board rules.

 

In any case, I read Karen's post differently than you apparently did. When you say the "car is plastered with their tracts" I read that as the car being completely covered with tracts, which I agree is unlikely. What Karen said, however, was that she had tracts plastered to her car, which I read as having a tract or two stuck to the windshield. That I've seen.

 

Likewise, I didn't see Karen saying "people intent on conversion follow you everywhere." I see her saying that her life has many, many small conversion attempts and all of these little attempts add up to a lot of attempted converting.

 

As for the few tracts you might get every few months, or the few people that may ring your bell. They are doing these things in hopes of creating a positive, they are hoping to uplift you and the world, regardless of their religion. What was your goal with the bashing and exaggeration?

 

Well, if people who ring doorbells are trying to create a positive, don't you think it would be useful for them to know that in fact they are creating a negative? At least for some people?

[HFClassicalAcademy]

I used to have JV and Mormons come to our house, but they have stopped....thankfully!!

 

But I do get a lot of people trying to convert me in public places. The most recent one happened while I was getting my oil changed!! An older lady comes up to me and starts asking if I believe in everlasting life, etc. etc. Mind you...I had all 4 of my little kids with me!

 

Now this kind of thing is EXTREMELY annoying to me!! It's like they don't listen when you tell them you aren't interested. She just kept quoting her little bible and trying to give me her pamphlets.

 

Finally, I tell her..."Wow!! You are SO good at quoting the bible and really seem to be in touch with God and faith. Have you ever thought of becoming Catholic? Let me give you the number to our RCIA office and I know the lady...her name is Shirley, would love to talk to you!" The look on her face was priceless and she seemed appalled that I would even ask her this!!

 

She told me she wasn't interested and I kept pressing..."But if you knew more about the Catholic faith you would come to realize that it is the one true church of God!! How can you refuse God like that?"

 

Of course, I was exaggerating my emotions and she simply walked away from me!!!

 

It was hilarious and amazing. I felt like I gave her a taste of her own medicine! And isn't it illegal to do those things in a place of business anyways??

 

Liz in NC

[Pamela H in Texas]

I'm sorry she was so pushy past your insistence of non-interest. She really was just trying to help. At least she was zealous :) And no, it's not illegal to preach in businesses.

 

Just a consideration. I figure I'm not going to convince those that want to believe that we're trying to convert people on the spot that that just isn't the case, but....

 

Just as a person can't just decide to be Catholic, a person can't just decide to be a Witness either. We cannot convert someone on the spot and usually not just in a couple months either. In order to truly convert to be a Witness, a LOT must be done in order that a person could truly know God (John 17:3, Prov 2:1-5) in order to dedicate their life to him and live as he commands (1John 5:3). Some people are HUNGRY and ready to do these things so it takes several months and other people have a lot to work through, learn, etc making it take years.

 

Regardless, no one can convert you to a witness on your doorstep (or at the oil change place). And no JW thinks they can convert you anyway. Our preaching and teaching is only a small part of what really happens when someone decides to follow the God of the Bible. God is the one that deserves ALL the glory; He's the only one that draws people and makes growth happen.

[HFClassicalAcademy]

I felt like I gave her a taste of her own medicine! And isn't it illegal to do those things in a place of business anyways??

 

Liz in NC

 

Sorry if this is offensive and mean. I really don't like to be approached and 99% of those that do approach me about religion are extremely pushy. That is the last thing I need to deal with when I have a baby in my arms, a toddler running around, and 2 other kids complaining about something.

 

Positive experiences with people who come knocking at the door are extremely rare. I'm always polite and firm. "No, thank you. We're Catholic." Some have even tried to stop me from closing the door on them!!! It's completely horrid!

 

Actually, the only times I have ever had a pleasant parting with people who approach me is with Mormons. They are polite and always say, "thank you for your time."

 

But everyone else is just...weird. I tell some of them I'm Catholic and they look at me like I'm the devil and press even harder!!

 

I apologize again, but having people come up to me is one the most frustrating and annoying things to me. I understand that there are many who are hungry for it...but when you say "no, thanks" they should listen and just walk away. Don't press on, don't hand me your pamphlets...I'm only going to throw them away.

[Tammy]

Well guess what? The same group of JW's were going down the road (I have their car on my radar now, LOL)....and I was outside talking on the phone. I noticed they pulled up to my yard (on the road, I live far off the road)...and I THINK they noticed I was talking on the phone. I did see them pull into a couple other of my neighbors' houses. They never did pull into my drive....so maybe they aren't all pushy after all, LOL! Of course I made sure to stay on the phone until my radar quit beeping, LOLOLOLOL!

[hornblower]

I have a sign on my doorbell which says

 

No Thanks!

No soliciting.

No gas contracts.

No missionaries.

 

It's in red too.

 

I get a lot of people who come up to the front door & turn right around. I just hear feet clomping down the steps & my dog gives a woof. Only once has one of those on the list (it was a Mormon) knocked on the door & then he spent minutes apologizing because he saw the sign right after he knocked.

 

During election times, I put up another sign beside that one, saying "Politicians ARE Welcome!"

[Tammy]

Where did you get those signs?

[hornblower]

Oh, they're nothing more than an index card with my printing.

 

I think the personal touch is important here :D

 

I freely admit this is tacky, really. But much better than the aggravation of these folks at my door. This is a photo from last fall - during Canada's federal election & the municipal election.

[Tammy]

I don't know how mine would hold up in all this humidity! LOL

[Danestress]

What is that about?

[hornblower]

What is that about?

 

We used to have a crown monopoly in charge of selling & delivering natural gas. Then just a bit over a year ago, there was a deregulation in the market and the crown corp still delivers but you can now choose to buy from the crown corp or from a variety of other natural gas providers. They come out in swarms into a neighbourhood, and their schtick is that they lock you into a price for 1-5 year contracts. Good if the market price goes up, but not so good is the price goes down (as it recently did). The crown corp just charges you what the market value is (+ delivery costs which are static)

 

They are some of the smarmiest sales people, using really misleading tactics. One of their favourite ones is to hold a clipboard and just flash you a bill from the *crown corporation* - the implication being that they are reps from the crown. Then they have a spiel about how you just need to sign some papers to ensure continued supply, and how ALL your neighbours have already done it, and presto. A lot of older folks and immigrants have been sucked into what is essentially a risky game of betting on commodity futures.

 

They're aggressive too. Won't take no for an answer & will argue. I lost my patience with them actually way before I lost it with the folks coming to save my soul .....

[SherryTX]

Frankly, I don't believe you. I do not believe that there is some place that is so incredibly 'religious' that your car is 'plastered' with their tracts, that people intent on conversion follow you everywhere, or scream at you from street corners. If you actually live in such a place, I can't imagine why you would stay.

 

I'm so tired of people exaggerating the truth, to the hoots and agreements of others, in order to bash a handful of people. You don't like them, fine, but don't put yourself among the ranks of those that lie to make your point. Normal people know that gays are not making out on every street corner or attempting to 'date' every straight person they come upon. Normal people know that race has little to do with crime rates. Normal people know that these attempts at disparagment are nothing more than lies based on the tiniest nuggets of truth. Normal people know that no one's cars are 'plastered' with tracts and that the only religious people screaming from street corners are suffering from twisted minds (that has nothing to do with their actual religion).

 

Keep adding to the falsities. Go ahead. It doesn't make it true. Your exaggerations do not make it true, neither do the happy agreements you may get. It just puts you right there with people that make others out to be evil or the enemy by making things up.

 

As for the few tracts you might get every few months, or the few people that may ring your bell. They are doing these things in hopes of creating a positive, they are hoping to uplift you and the world, regardless of their religion. What was your goal with the bashing and exaggeration?

 

From personal experience - yes I HAVE had tracts left on my windshield, and as a "tip" when I was a waitress back in the late '80s. And this was up in New England, where people are not as vocal as they are here in TX regarding their faith.

 

In Texas, I have received several mail solicitations over the past 5 years- some addressed to my CHILDREN from local churches. I receive at least 3 to 4 church fliers on my doorknob each month (along with the offers to mow my lawn, clean my house, and fix my car), and it adds up to quite a bit of trash.

 

(On a side note - I don't mind getting the ones that have heavy magnets. I just pull off the church sticker on it and use it. I have added at least 4 or 5 of these magnets to my fridge over the past few years. OOOO...and if you are a church that gives out pens, feel free - the more pens I get for free, the less I have to buy. I don't care what the message is on it - if I find it offense - which I usually don't - I can just scratch it out.:tongue_smilie:)

 

If you live in an in area where this isn't an issue, well that is nice. But just because you haven't experienced this doesn't mean it is a lie.

[lionfamily1999]

From personal experience - yes I HAVE had tracts left on my windshield, and as a "tip" when I was a waitress back in the late '80s. And this was up in New England, where people are not as vocal as they are here in TX regarding their faith.

 

In Texas, I have received several mail solicitations over the past 5 years- some addressed to my CHILDREN from local churches. I receive at least 3 to 4 church fliers on my doorknob each month (along with the offers to mow my lawn, clean my house, and fix my car), and it adds up to quite a bit of trash.

 

(On a side note - I don't mind getting the ones that have heavy magnets. I just pull off the church sticker on it and use it. I have added at least 4 or 5 of these magnets to my fridge over the past few years. OOOO...and if you are a church that gives out pens, feel free - the more pens I get for free, the less I have to buy. I don't care what the message is on it - if I find it offense - which I usually don't - I can just scratch it out.:tongue_smilie:)

 

If you live in an in area where this isn't an issue, well that is nice. But just because you haven't experienced this doesn't mean it is a lie.

Yes, left on your windshield. Plastered to your car, though? Maybe not.

 

My point was that the exaggerations are incorrect and they're just as wrong in one situation as in another. The closest thing I've ever seen to a car 'plastered' with anything was some internet joke showing a car with a windshield full of parking tickets. One tract does not a plastered car make.

[SherryTX]

Yes, left on your windshield. Plastered to your car, though? Maybe not.

 

My point was that the exaggerations are incorrect and they're just as wrong in one situation as in another. The closest thing I've ever seen to a car 'plastered' with anything was some internet joke showing a car with a windshield full of parking tickets. One tract does not a plastered car make.

 

No, MY car wasn't "plastered", but that doesn't invalidate what the poster wrote about it being an issue. And for some people, 2 or 3 tracts of an unwelcoming nature may certain be perceived as plastered by some. They don't always leave them on the windshield either - somethings in the crack of your door. Now THAT is annoying - you open it up - it goes flying, you run across the parking lot because you don't want to litter...yadda, yadda, yadda....but I digress...

[lionfamily1999]

No, MY car wasn't "plastered", but that doesn't invalidate what the poster wrote about it being an issue. And for some people, 2 or 3 tracts of an unwelcoming nature may certain be perceived as plastered by some. They don't always leave them on the windshield either - somethings in the crack of your door. Now THAT is annoying - you open it up - it goes flying, you run across the parking lot because you don't want to litter...yadda, yadda, yadda....but I digress...

Her response to the statement:

 

I've never had the bad experiences described, I haven't even had issues with rudeness. It is always surprising to me, the animosity felt towards religious people going door to door. It's an effort to save your (not you, but you know what I mean) life, your eternal soul. I'd be more hurt if they didn't put any effort into it than if they showed up twice a year. But then, I'm wierd.

 

 

went above and beyond and in order to reach that extent she had to exaggerate. While big fish stories can be fun around a camp fire, they can also be used to hurt groups of people. Tongue in cheek or not, the response was exaggerated. Religious peoples are not 'plastering' cars with tracts, they aren't following people or hanging on every street corner screaming.

[Elaine]

The JW's used to come knocking at my door and I am very hard to find. But then we had an incident, and I will respectfully decline to share what happened. Let's just say that they think we are too depraved to venture back here because they haven't been back.

 

Good golly, Dana!! Now I must know what happened!:lol:

[Greta]

Religious peoples . . . aren't following people or hanging on every street corner screaming.

 

Apparently you're unfamiliar with the Westboro Baptist Church. So allow me to introduce you.

 

The last time I visited my family, the area was hit by a tornado. We, at my parents' house, were only a mile outside of its path, and the town where both of my brothers were was directly hit, killing eight people. I was very frightened that night, and so very relieved once, after phone service was restored, we were able to make contact with my brothers and found out they were both alright. The WBC showed up a couple of days later to explain to those people who weren't so lucky, those people who were burying their loved ones, how the tornado was sent by God to teach them a lesson, and they'd better repent now. That's what the WBC does. They travel to funerals all over the country and yell at grieving people about how much God hates them.

 

I am most certainly and absolutely NOT putting these people in the same class as the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Mormons, who in my experience are very kind people (ETA: I'm also not lumping them in with other Baptists, who say this is not a legitimate Baptist Church.). I'm only pointing it out because I think you are being unfair to Karen. Some people DO turn preaching into something vile and negative, and her comments about it barely scratched the surface. I'm glad you haven't been subjected to the things Karen talked about, and I'm especially glad you've never been subjected to the WBC, but some of us truly have. So we know it's real.

Edited April 7, 2009 by GretaLynne

[Elaine]

From personal experience - yes I HAVE had tracts left on my windshield, and as a "tip" when I was a waitress back in the late '80s.

 

Oh, I hate that! As a Christian, the whole idea of leaving a tract in place of a tip is so...so...ew. Just.don't.do.that. That's not to say that I have never left a tract, I just leave a huge, 20% or more, tip with it.

 

And, I love free pens, too!:D

[Danestress]

that even if "plastered" was an exaggeration, your post was still just over the top in terms of aggressive attack? I don't think I have ever read a ruder, more insulting post on this board. You were responding to a poster who has posted politely and intelligently here many times, and I'm just sort of shocked.

 

And having grown up in the Bible belt, I believe pretty much every thing she said. Yes, most of those things happened all the time when I was growing up. I seem to see fewer fliers on cars recently, though. We had preachers on the corner all the time at my college - and some of them were very good. I'm sure a few were deranged, but many of them were competent and just wanted to preach. It was almost a daily event if the weather was nice. You can google "pit preacher" on youtube, and find this still happens - I was curious as to whether it still does. When I lived in St. Louis, preachers on the corner also seemed more common than they do here. It doesn't strike me as necessarily true that they are all of unsound mind. Maybe they just want to share their faith?

 

Anyway, back to the original topic, I'm a Christian and I rarely have people come to the door at witnesses. A couple of Mormon kids came a year or two ago and they were so polite and nice that I felt like having them for dinner. I told them I had a faith I was really happy with and they were not pushy but just really sweet. I had JW more years ago, and they were pushier but nothing really offensive.

 

It scares me to have men at my door, to be honest. I just don't like it. So if two men knocked on my door, it would probably scare me and I probably wouldn't be friendly. The Mormon kids were disarmingly nice so I didn't feel that way, but I do understand why someone would just flat not want people ringing the doorbell.

[OH_Homeschooler]

that even if "plastered" was an exaggeration, your post was still just over the top in terms of aggressive attack? I don't think I have ever read a ruder, more insulting post on this board. You were responding to a poster who has posted politely and intelligently here many times, and I'm just sort of shocked.

 

 

Well, I haven't been involved in the debate but I have been following along. I think it's very rude to assume that people want to be saved. Not everyone believes in the concept of God, heaven, etc. Not everyone who does not believe in those things is ignorant. Some people have come to the conclusion that they do not want to hear any more about God in a very precise, thoughtful manner. Is it not insulting to tell those people they are wrong in their beliefs?

[KarenNC]

Frankly, I don't believe you. I do not believe that there is some place that is so incredibly 'religious' that your car is 'plastered' with their tracts, that people intent on conversion follow you everywhere, or scream at you from street corners. If you actually live in such a place, I can't imagine why you would stay.

 

Merriam Webster includes in the definition of "plaster": 6: to affix to or place on especially conspicuously or in quantity. If an 8 1/2 by 11 inch neon colored flyer is stuck on my windshield over the driver's side, as has been done in many parking lots, it meets the definition. Nowhere did I say that my car was completely concealed. "Normal people" do not assume that only the most extreme meaning of something is what is meant.

 

I said "If it weren't only once or twice a year for a couple of minutes with a polite person who went away when you said "no, thanks" but instead was everywhere you turned, all year long? If it were plastered on your car, left in your library books, stuck on gas pumps, screamed at you from street corners, mailed to your house, sent in email, etc?" Nowhere in this did I say that "people intent on conversion follow [me] everywhere".

 

Yes, in the last year, I have repeatedly found tracts or other proselytizing advertising (usually of the Jack Chick variety http://www.chick.com/default.asp) stuck on gas pumps, inserted in my bag at the takeout window from an Arby's restaurant (I complained to the manager when I got home and discovered it), put in the pages of library books at our public library (I alerted the library staff), stuck in my child's trick or treat bag on Halloween, left on tables in public restaurants, where the cashier can't see them at the grocery checkout counter, as stickers affixed to mirrors and walls in public restrooms, stuck in my newspaper box, mailed to my house, affixed to my car, shoved at me by people on the street (though that has not been as frequent---most of these folks aren't evidently willing to speak face to face with an adult). I frequently get proselytizing emails and emails asking me to sign petitions for religious causes from folks who have no reason to assume that I share their views other than they have my email address for a totally different reason (that is usually quickly resolved, but it keeps happening). A lot of these are focused around abortion and homosexuality (in graphic comic or photographic form) as part of the proselytization.

 

There was a big movement in our area last summer to have "summer camps" that specifically were not held in churches or mentioned religion in their advertisements in an attempt to proselytize young children. Here's the thread where this was discussed last June---it's not only here http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36461&highlight=proselytize+summer+camp

 

We even have had someone insert them into the activity bags for young children at our UU church (we rent the facility out to a couple of groups during the week and the bags were sitting openly by the door--guess someone couldn't resist the chance to try to covertly proselytize the little ones in their own house of worship without their parents' knowledge).

 

Our local government meetings still pray "in Jesus' name" to start out, our local newspaper has the daily Bible verse and prayer on the second page and gives away (Protestant Christian) Bibles regularly. There is a local Christian newspaper that gets thrown in everyone's yard weekly without request. The local Christmas parade and other parades have church floats some of which include their youth walking along the parade route handing out tracts. The vast majority of opportunities for homeschool social and academic activities have a statement of faith requirement in order to participate. We are indeed in a pretty heavily conservative Christian environment overall, though it is gradually getting more diverse.

 

I fully realize that I am not personally being targeted---these folks are totally indiscriminate or they wouldn't be doing what they do. This does tend to go in waves. Things had calmed down quite a bit until the folks from Operation Save America/Operation Rescue moved to town. They have indeed been known to scream from street corners at times (not always with their 3x5 foot photos of aborted fetuses outside the driveway into the Toys R Us across from the mall on a Saturday afternoon or across the street from a school, but sometimes they do). I fully agree that folks like this are not operating within the framework of what most of us would consider "normal standards of behavior" and that there are those types of folks in every religion. That doesn't mean they don't exist or that I haven't seen them. Frankly, I don't really care if their actions have more to do with their religion or "their twisted minds" (to use your words), I'd just like their *behavior* to stop.

 

I am quite well aware that not all Christians do this, that not all areas are like this (in the large city close by, it was not our experience) and that not all (or even most) Christians in our area are like this. It is a description of my experience, not a "bashing" or "exaggeration". The point of the post was to try to get folks to try to put themselves in the shoes of others who are in a minority religion, when the culture around them is constantly reinforcing implicitly and explicitly the majority religion and to realize that a reaction is not always to the specific instance, but to the cumulative effect of many other instances over a period of time. Some of those experiences are likely going to be with those outside the norm of polite civilized behavior.

 

Why do I remain here? Because my family has been here since the 1760s, we own a house here which we can afford in a neighborhood where I can have some confidence that the home values won't plummet due to the crime rates going up as happened at our previous home, my husband's job is here, my extended family and friends are here, my religious community is here and I will not cede my life to a few folks who feel it is their imperative to exceed the limits of normal behavior in their attempts to convert others to their religion, whatever that religion might be. I do my best to structure my life so that I come into as little contact with those folks as possible.

Edited April 7, 2009 by KarenNC
portion of sentence inadvertently left out--corrected so it made sense <G>

[Jenny in Florida]

Why do I remain here? Because my family has been here since the 1760s, we own a house here which we can afford in a neighborhood where I can have some confidence that the home values won't plummet due to the crime rates going up as happened at our previous home, my husband's job is here, my extended family and friends are here, my religious community is here and I will not cede my life to a few folks who feel it is their imperative to exceed the limits of normal behavior in their attempts to convert others to their religion, whatever that religion might be. I do my best to structure my life so that I come into as little contact with those folks as possible.

 

What a lovely, articulate post. That was a pleasure to read. Thank you.

[Greta]

And having grown up in the Bible belt, I believe pretty much every thing she said.

 

Ditto. I've *experienced* pretty much every thing she said.

 

We had preachers on the corner all the time at my college - and some of them were very good. I'm sure a few were deranged, but many of them were competent and just wanted to preach. It was almost a daily event if the weather was nice.

 

That's interesting. I'm actually uplifted to hear that some of them were competent and respectable. The one that always came to my college was clearly nuts. He was practically frothing at the mouth and getting way too much pleasure out of telling us how our professors were leading us down the path to hell. He actually would have been amusing if it weren't for his three wives and fifteen kids, who were all filthy, poorly dressed, and looked like they hadn't eaten in awhile. {shudder}. I kind of feel bad for all of Christianity when someone like that claims the name "Christian".

[KidsHappen]

the response was exaggerated.

 

I think that your response was exaggerated as well :001_huh: and certainly not called for. Just because you have not experienced these things, does not mean that they do not happen. I also happen to agree with pp regarding the board rules.

[SherryTX]

Oh, I hate that! As a Christian, the whole idea of leaving a tract in place of a tip is so...so...ew. Just.don't.do.that. That's not to say that I have never left a tract, I just leave a huge, 20% or more, tip with it.

 

And, I love free pens, too!:D

 

I like your attitude. :)

When the tracts were left at the restaurant, there was never a tip. (These were those fire and brimstone little comment books for the most part, that always had some one going to Hell at the end.)

[Lovedtodeath]

I said "If it weren't only once or twice a year for a couple of minutes with a polite person who went away when you said "no, thanks" but instead was everywhere you turned, all year long? If it were plastered on your car, left in your library books, stuck on gas pumps, screamed at you from street corners, mailed to your house, sent in email, etc?" Nowhere in this did I say that "people intent on conversion follow [me] everywhere".

Ah, I was wondering... thanks for clearing that up.

 

The point of the post was to try to get folks to try to put themselves in the shoes of others who are in a minority religion, when the culture around them is constantly reinforcing implicitly and explicitly the majority religion and to realize that a reaction is not always to the specific instance, but to the cumulative effect of many other instances over a period of time.

As I pointed out earlier, Witnesses are part of the minority, too. We are targeted for abuse most often by the clergy. We are surrounded by advertisements for holidays, which are also dealt with by our children in school. Pattriotism is another thing that is pushed at our children, as young as 3. (Yes, that was my daughter.)

 

I like your attitude. :)

When the tracts were left at the restaurant, there was never a tip. (These were those fire and brimstone little comment books for the most part, that always had some one going to Hell at the end.)

 

Well, we don't believe in the fire and brimstone definition of hell, so I am glad to know that it wasn't us. :)

[SherryTX]

 

 

Well, we don't believe in the fire and brimstone definition of hell, so I am glad to know that it wasn't us. :)

 

I consider those folks a bit on the fridge and extreme. I realize they are a very small part of the Christian community. If they would give you a freebie (as I mentioned pen, magnet, etc) it wouldn't be so annoying haha.

[Caroline]

Pamela and Carmen, I really appreciate your participation in this thread. Thank you.