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Can we talk about why (or why not) we've chosen a classical education for our dc?


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I'll start.

 

I've endeavored to give my children a classical education as a reaction to my own ignorance. My tendency toward "group think", and my years of not questioning anything have led me to want my children to be thinkers and to dig deeper than the average textbook answer.

 

I definitely fall short of providing a solid classical education, especially compared with many here, but I do see that my children are learning to to think independently.

 

I guess I'm wondering if a "classical" education is the key to reaching our educational goals, or if it's just about constantly working through issues with our children, and challenging society's assumptions.

 

What are your reasons for choosing (or not) a classical education?

 

Lori

ETA: I keep thinking about my subject line, and hear my own voice telling my kids, "Well, of course you can, by may you?"

Edited by LBC
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Can I cheat and link an article that I recently read and greatly enjoyed? It sums up what drew me to classical, Christian education even before I had my first child. The article is by Dr. Bruce McMenomy who teaches with Scholars Online and it is specifically about classical and Christian education, so Christian content is very much a part of where he is coming from.

 

http://www.scholarsonline.org/Info/WhitePapers/CsandCE.html

 

The first section is primarily about how an education can be both classical (pagan in content even) and Christian. The "what has Jerusalem to do with Athens?" question. But starting with the subheading Reintegrating Classical Learning and Christian Education , Dr. McMenomy talks more generally about the broad, rich benefits of a classical education. :)

 

And here's the page the article is found on the Scholars website: http://www.scholarsonline.org/Info/ClassEd.php

 

The article on literature and charity is also quite well done.

Edited by Jami
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I would say that my reasons also stem from my own ignorance. I want my kids to be able to analyze what they read, view, or listen to and be able to spot flaws in logic and be aware of any bias and then I want them to be able to form their own educated opinions and be able to articulate those opinions articulately and persuasively. That's essentially what I want out of a classical education.

 

In addition, I want my kids to have a good working knowledge of the major events and people who helped to shape history. I want them to understand the connections between various events and people and to see how we came to be where we are today. I want them to be able to apply this knowledge with the understanding that their own life choices can effect history.

 

I want them to appreciate the beauty in literature, music and art. I think this often gets lost... Especially if kids don't have the attention span to read quality literature or the opportunity to learn about different forms of music and art.

 

I want them to think. I want them to have a solid understanding of logic and worldview so that they look at the world with open eyes and can spot false teaching and understand hidden messages.

 

I also want them to be individuals who have wrestled with and thought about what their own values, beliefs, and passions are. I want them to know themselves and not be swayed by peers. I want them to find their purpose in life and pursue it passionately.

 

I think that a Classical education is the best way to achieve these goals.

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I would say that my reasons also stem from my own ignorance. I want my kids to be able to analyze what they read, view, or listen to and be able to spot flaws in logic and be aware of any bias and then I want them to be able to form their own educated opinions and be able to articulate those opinions articulately and persuasively. That's essentially what I want out of a classical education.

 

In addition, I want my kids to have a good working knowledge of the major events and people who helped to shape history. I want them to understand the connections between various events and people and to see how we came to be where we are today. I want them to be able to apply this knowledge with the understanding that their own life choices can effect history.

 

I want them to appreciate the beauty in literature, music and art. I think this often gets lost... Especially if kids don't have the attention span to read quality literature or the opportunity to learn about different forms of music and art.

 

I want them to think. I want them to have a solid understanding of logic and worldview so that they look at the world with open eyes and can spot false teaching and understand hidden messages.

 

I also want them to be individuals who have wrestled with and thought about what their own values, beliefs, and passions are. I want them to know themselves and not be swayed by peers. I want them to find their purpose in life and pursue it passionately.

 

I think that a Classical education is the best way to achieve these goals.

 

 

:iagree: Very well said.

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The only thing I can term my own education is "woefully inadequate."

 

Perhaps it was the time period (70's-80's), but the direction of education at that time seemed chaotic. I was young for my grade but after testing I was shuffled between "my" grade and several grades above. The kids resented it and I didn't know where I belonged. By the time I hit high school I was burned out.

 

With dd I wanted something as close to my ideal as possible, and everything I read about classical education fit the bill.

 

It's also for selfish reasons. I've been learning in leaps and bounds since I started home schooling! It's the education I wish I'd had.

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Echoing much of what others have already stated. I want to give them the best education possible, and I am in the fortunate position to be able to provide it.

 

I am using the Latin-Centered Curriculum approach with a twist - we also focus heavily on science (as in, science is required every day).

 

One of our more pointed goals is to be able to teach history, literature, and whatnot without living within the constraints of being politically correct. We will not use certain materials because of their liberal bias (for instance Hakim). And we can always discuss different viewpoints as they come up.

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I am using the Latin-Centered Curriculum approach with a twist - we also focus heavily on science (as in, science is required every day).

 

 

 

This is a great idea...I plan to do this when my children are a bit older. Science is on the top of my list along with Reading and Math.

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It is the primary reason we homeschool and in the years we have been using TWTM dd has not once said the proverbial phrase '"I am bored." Quite frankly the minute I held TWTM in my hands homeschooling was the only option for our family. I know how very fortunate I am to have attended a Jesuit university and know that this method is the best way to prepare dd for what will be a challenging curricula at the aforementioned institution. As a philosophy major the resources utilized to achieve a classical education are not new to me but they are IMHO the only writers worth their salt. Much of what passes for education generally in institutional settings is emotive in nature not cognitive. As an example, when studying the Second World War facts , policies, dates and geography are not emphasized enough if at all. Rather an emotional response is pursued without any or limited cognitive work to understand the underlying causes of the conflict . I am not against emotional involvement at all but it seems to be the rule that the goal is to have the students "feel " a certain way about the subject at hand rather than understand it. I find this manipulative and appalling. FWIW as many are aware I am a liberal to the bone. However ,I loathe ineptitude and knee jerk sentimentality as much as the next person regardless of what the stereotype may put forth. Reason , rational discourse and the inter connected nature of knowledge are the values I hold dear and I am convinced that classical education in style and substance will support those values.

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The short answer is that they are actually learning. So many educational methods focus on overview, but not actual learning. I want my kids to be able to tell me what they know at the end of the day, as well as at the end of the year.

I want them to be word-rich, able to make connections between literature, science, theology, history, etc. and I want them to be able to form their own thoughts and be willing to stand by them even when those thoughs aren't popular. I want them to be able to speak and write articulatly and understand the responsibilities and skills of leadership.

Classcial ed sums it up.

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I'm not real into labeling homeschooling styles and haven't seen the need to do so in our own lives. As well, the labels ~ such as the term "classical education" ~ are subject to a variety of interpretations. Compared to what some consider a truly classical education, the WTM approach ~ an education that is language-focused and follows a specific three-part pattern ~ is neo-Classical. What's in a name, one may ask.

 

I imagine most people who home educate ~ and many who don't ~ are in agreement with the goals expressed in the replies here thus far. Yes, I want to teach my children to think clearly & logically, to be challenged and to challenge other thinking, to interact with the liberal arts ~ and hey, I get to be along for the ride, too! Cool! I find that achieving those goals is possible through a variety of means, some of which may be interpreted as Classical, some of which may not.

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I originally chose classical education when I started to homeschool, because it resonated with what I already believed about how children should and do learn. As I've learned more and more about it, my appreciation of classical education has increased, even as my understanding of what it means and how it should be done have changed.

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We're pseudo-classical. :001_smile:

 

Like many others, I've been dismayed by the realization of how poor my own education really was. When we began homeschooling, I had no real grasp of the flow of history; no clue that ideas that had first been articulated in ancient Greece or Rome or China were still alive and relevant today. I would really like for my kiddos to have a much better understanding of history, and the ideas that shaped the events, and how those ideas have shaped our own culture.

 

I also like the focus on literature. Reading good books is one very wonderful way in which one can be exposed to unique perspectives and complex ideas.

 

I also like the skills focus. The Wise's are great advocate for the importance of basic skills that are frequently short-shifted in modern schools. I'm thinking here specifically of phonics, spelling and grammar.

 

I like many of the techniques or strategies that Classical education advocates; copywork, dictation, narration, memorization.

 

Lastly, I like that the focus of instruction discourages self involvement. So much focus in modern ed seems wrapped up in the student's feelings or experiences or ethnic background, as if they are the center of the universe. I think this encourages narccissim.

 

:001_smile:

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I love classical literature and majored in British Lit. I was very jealous of the education that most writers recieved previous to our century and how easy it was for them to refer to previous ideas that education in today's world no longer exposes us to.

 

So I wanted a great books education for my children and even more to give them the training in Latin that will help them to be logical thinkers.

 

We do OK with all of this. My oldest struggles with reading but likes Latin. My youngest is not ready to read so we will see how it all develops.:001_smile:

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We're pseudo-classical. :001_smile:

 

Like many others, I've been dismayed by the realization of how poor my own education really was. When we began homeschooling, I had no real grasp of the flow of history; no clue that ideas that had first been articulated in ancient Greece or Rome or China were still alive and relevant today. I would really like for my kiddos to have a much better understanding of history, and the ideas that shaped the events, and how those ideas have shaped our own culture.

 

I also like the focus on literature. Reading good books is one very wonderful way in which one can be exposed to unique perspectives and complex ideas.

 

I also like the skills focus. The Wise's are great advocate for the importance of basic skills that are frequently short-shifted in modern schools. I'm thinking here specifically of phonics, spelling and grammar.

 

I like many of the techniques or strategies that Classical education advocates; copywork, dictation, narration, memorization.

 

Lastly, I like that the focus of instruction discourages self involvement. So much focus in modern ed seems wrapped up in the student's feelings or experiences or ethnic background, as if they are the center of the universe. I think this encourages narccissim.

 

:001_smile:

:iagree: That is pretty much why we are into it too.

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Can I cheat and link an article that I recently read and greatly enjoyed? It sums up what drew me to classical, Christian education even before I had my first child. The article is by Dr. Bruce McMenomy who teaches with Scholars Online and it is specifically about classical and Christian education, so Christian content is very much a part of where he is coming from.

 

http://www.scholarsonline.org/Info/WhitePapers/CsandCE.html

 

 

 

Whew! I did it. I read the entire thing. It wouldn't have been too difficult if I wasn't also trying to teach math, science, spelling and vocabulary. I finally sent the kids outside to play so that I could finish reading it.:tongue_smilie:

 

What a great article. I really liked this particular point:

Nevertheless, today we find students so steeped in their own immediate experience of everything, and so concerned with material acquisition, that they cannot write a sentence comprehensible to anyone else, or speak to each other without vulgarity and a creeping erosion of the language in every direction. The irony is that, through ignorance of what has come before, their thoughts and opinions have become so thoroughly conventional (whether liberal or conservative) that public discourse is the braying of separate self-involved parties across an abyss, and literature becomes a private disclosure of the existentially random. In both cases, the only ones apparently listening are those who already believe.

 

Lori

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My oldest is 6. I bought the WTM when he was about 2 or 3 to get ideas of how to be an early teacher to my kids. It totally opened my mind up to books on tape and all you can do early on for your kids. Another book introduced me to non-fiction for kids to get books on subjects they really enjoy. Our family knows a ridiculous amount about the Titanic, astronauts, pirates, the Hindenburg, and most great disasters in history. We were not planning to homeschool, though I was very curious and ignorant about it. I thought I may be an afterschooler, but the school system is very liberal here and some wise counsel helped us to leap into homeschooling! Classical education seemed the best fit for us. We already had the book! Our plan is one year at a time. I love to read to my kids!!!!

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I agree with the educational goals that have been mentioned. I have some of the same ones written down as goals for my dc. So, please understand that I share many of the same reasons for homeschooling classically (somewhat anyway, we don't do Latin and have made it through 1 round of the history cycle due to life circumstances and hope to make through 1 more before we are done, etc. so I try to hs as close to classically as I can manage).

The reason I am pointing this stuff out is that I have a question and I want it to come across in the way I intend it to. I ask myself these questions and I am going to state them here because I am curious if anyone else has asked themselves similar questions and have come up with answers. :)

What if when it is all said and done our dc don't attain these goals? Does hs'ing classically automatically mean these goals will be achieved? Are these goals ideals and not realistic to the point that one may attain some, but it is difficult if not impossible to attain them all? What if our dc don't have the same goals?

I am not going to change how we approach hs'ing (as far as being only semi-classical) and like Colleen I really don't call our hs'ing classical though I do use/follow a majority of classical methods. I don't care to box ourselves in with a label. We have finally found an ease to our days while maintaining rigor, flexibility and enjoyment.

Anyway, are some of the goals of a classical education more pie in the sky than practical? Does it matter?

My dh doesn't like to indulge in these types of questions from me, so I am tossing them out here. These are just things that I wonder about. :)

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I want them to have the tendency and the tools to resist mindless popular culture, to think for themselves, to have an uncommon literacy, and to understand the modern world in an organized historical context. I haven't found a better method than what we're using.

 

:iagree:

Ditto to what Laura said. Expensive, time-consuming (especially self-ed) and daunting at times -- but I love it! Thank you SWB for showing me the light in 2007!

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I chose a classical curriculum, because it is the most rigorous, well rounded one I found. My son's issues are all grounded in his being 'bored' and reading the descriptions online, as well as TWTM, lead me to believe this would be far from boring.

 

I felt really let down when I realized that my public school education hadn't even gotton me ready to attend the local community college. I was angry that my AP degree meant little more than a GED, because of the level of education I was given. When I read about becoming a non-learner, lights went off over my head, and I realized what had happened to me. I learned to dip to a lower level, in order to fit in, in order to make my teachers happy, and I could not bare to let that happen to Drew.

 

The incident with the report card and his rediculous teacher's take on his 'behavior problems' were the last straws.

 

My husband's reasons for going along with me are the same as my own. We continue to learn, I'm taking all the classes I can handle and Dh is living vicariously through me, but we both feel the perfidy of a school system that only creates blue collars.

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I'm glad you found time to read it, Lori. I printed it out a couple of days ago and had to nibble on it here and there when time and my concentration allowed. But it was just what I needed for inspiration at the mid-year point, or start of the New Year. :)

 

 

 

Whew! I did it. I read the entire thing. It wouldn't have been too difficult if I wasn't also trying to teach math, science, spelling and vocabulary. I finally sent the kids outside to play so that I could finish reading it.:tongue_smilie:

 

What a great article. I really liked this particular point:

Nevertheless, today we find students so steeped in their own immediate experience of everything, and so concerned with material acquisition, that they cannot write a sentence comprehensible to anyone else, or speak to each other without vulgarity and a creeping erosion of the language in every direction. The irony is that, through ignorance of what has come before, their thoughts and opinions have become so thoroughly conventional (whether liberal or conservative) that public discourse is the braying of separate self-involved parties across an abyss, and literature becomes a private disclosure of the existentially random. In both cases, the only ones apparently listening are those who already believe.

 

Lori

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Our main goals are to teach our children to think clearly and to learn. We want them to have the skills to learn whatever they will need to learn in life.I have no idea what they will need to know or their adult lives but I can give them the skills to find, process and utilize whatever information they need along the way.

Like a previous poster, I've found that I am learning a lot with the classical education methods. I imagine if I'm learning this much, then it's got to be good for the children.

:iagree:

What if when it is all said and done our dc don't attain these goals? Does hs'ing classically automatically mean these goals will be achieved? Are these goals ideals and not realistic to the point that one may attain some, but it is difficult if not impossible to attain them all? What if our dc don't have the same goals?

 

Anyway, are some of the goals of a classical education more pie in the sky than practical? Does it matter?

I guess it would depend on what you believe the goals of classical education are. If it's independant thought and the ability to learn, outside of an 'educational environment', then I would feel like a failure if my dcs fell short. If it's a full scholarship to an Ivy League school and a six figure income, then as long as they're happy (and fulfill the aforementioned parameters), whatever :)

 

As of now, Andrew wants to be an astronaut, Mommy isn't even sure how to spell the word :001_huh:... If he ended up a janitor for NASA, and it made him happy, then I would feel successful. However. If my son ended up as some rediculous character on Nick or Disney, sending puking pics to his friends and naked pics of his girlfriends to the highest bidder, I would be horribly disappointed.

 

I think the hopes are realistic, as long as the person hoping is realistic. It would be great to be the mother of super geniuses, bringing the world peace and environmental soundness, not to mention cures for cancer and the common cold. I would be just as happy as the mom of blue collar workers, assuming they could think and learn.

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To avoid this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww (Sorry. This just never gets old:lol:.)

 

Honestly, I have realized my own education was atrocious, and I was in "gifted" classes. I don't want that for my children. A classical education is the education I always wanted. Now I get to give this to my children and learn right along with them.

 

I really love old things. I love old ways of life and the simplicity of it all. Classical education is old, simple, and effective. It simply works. It worked for quite a long time. I love the Southern saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It just baffles me when I think of why we got away from classical education when it was working.

 

I'm still a beginner when it comes to both homeschooling and classical education. I have a lot to learn, but this path just seems clear to me.

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My son claims that he is not receiving a classical education; rather, he is receiving a Monty Python education. Funny, by studying philosophy, history and literature, he has an even deeper understanding of this group of goof balls.

 

I had the good fortune of studying Latin, reading Shakespeare, participating on a debate team, etc., since I was educated in a liberal arts tradition. My goal is to give my son a superior education--superior to current standards and to that which I received.

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Although I attended a good public school and an Ivy League university (Penn, but I don't think it would have been different at the other schools), I didn't really receive a thorough grounding in the humanities or the sciences. I didn't understand what I was missing until dh and I started reading through the great books lists that were popular in the 90s. Eventually I went to a night program in philosophy that was an eye-opening experience. I want my kids to have more exposure to the classics than I did.

 

OTOH, as the reality of hsing has sunk in over the last 2.5 years, I've realized that my lofty goals may have been a bit too lofty, okay...they were pie in the sky. Ds has to work incredibly hard to keep up with grade level work and dd, while bright, is not exactly reading Little House books at 5. We haven't been able to achieve the goal of getting a child reading fluently in Kindergarten. We have been able to explore history and science topics that fascinate the kids (and me) and have enjoyed lots of snuggles along with lots of picture books. I do think that the kids will have a much firmer grasp of history, literature and science than I did as a teenager, but I don't think they'll have the equivalent of a college education in the humanities by the time they're 18. So, for us, Veritas' Omnibus is beyond our grasp, but I do think something like Kolbe Academy will be very doable.

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My son claims that he is not receiving a classical education; rather, he is receiving a Monty Python education. Funny, by studying philosophy, history and literature, he has an even deeper understanding of this group of goof balls.

 

Those goof balls are pretty well educated, Cambridge for some, Oxford for others.

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I spent the early years of grammar school, grades 1-4, in catholic school. When I arrived in public school in 5th grade I was shocked by the lack of knowledge and class discipline. In 7th grade we moved to Pt Pleasant Beach, NJ where I attended a public school that has (or at least had) many neo-classical attributes, Latin, chronological history, great books. When I began homeschooling I knew I wanted my children to have the kind of education I received at catholic school and the latter public school, and avoid the other at all costs (which was in Brick, NJ in case anyone wants to avoid an area based on observations that are over 30 years old.) Anyway, I didn't know what "it", meaning that type of education, was called until I stumbled across the WTM in B&N one day. It was a Eureka! moment.

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OTOH, as the reality of hsing has sunk in over the last 2.5 years, I've realized that my lofty goals may have been a bit too lofty, okay...they were pie in the sky. Ds has to work incredibly hard to keep up with grade level work and dd, while bright, is not exactly reading Little House books at 5. We haven't been able to achieve the goal of getting a child reading fluently in Kindergarten. We have been able to explore history and science topics that fascinate the kids (and me) and have enjoyed lots of snuggles along with lots of picture books. I do think that the kids will have a much firmer grasp of history, literature and science than I did as a teenager, but I don't think they'll have the equivalent of a college education in the humanities by the time they're 18.

 

I'm not so sure. I have late reading (really, really late) kids & I'm still of the opinion that you can stuff an awful lot into their heads during the 13-18 years..... That's what I'm hoping anyway. :001_smile:

 

And while waiting for reading to finally come together for them, I spent a lot of time reading out loud, and got tons of audio books. It's not the same I know, but the exposure to the literature & ideas is there.

 

I also noticed that when my dd finally 'got' reading, she did go within months from Barbie easy readers to reading unabridged Anne of Green Gables etc. A year later, she was reading unabridged Pride & Prejudice on a camping holiday. She went from being 'years behind' to 'years ahead' within about 18 months. Learning isn't linear & I think you can see huge advances in very short periods of time.

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I opted for a classical education for my kids because I wanted them to have a solid education that could take them anywhere they wanted when they were grown. The other methods of homeschooling that I read about or tried did not give me the feeling of giving them that foundation like classical does.

 

I agree with all the other reasons too, they all speak to part of the decision I made as well.

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...I want them to have the tendency and the tools to resist mindless popular culture, to think for themselves, to have an uncommon literacy, and to understand the modern world in an organized historical context...

 

The bolded, italicized portion reflects my desire for my children and gravitation towards classical-ish schooling methods and materials.

 

(I believe that enjoying a little mindless popular culture isn't all bad...as long as you've got that historical context. I want them to enjoy the here and now, too.)

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We chose Classical education because we believe a strong liberal arts education will prepare our children to fully engage in whatever higher education and/or career path calls to them.

 

:iagree: Though what first attracted me TWTM was their schedules of teaching things in a purposeful order. My education was so patchy I often don't realise the links between things, which makes far too much of what I know effectively useless. I also want my children to learn to think and know it's not something they'll pick up without direction.

 

What if when it is all said and done our dc don't attain these goals? Does hs'ing classically automatically mean these goals will be achieved? Are these goals ideals and not realistic to the point that one may attain some, but it is difficult if not impossible to attain them all? What if our dc don't have the same goals?

 

 

Choosing to homeschool this way sure doesn't guarantee we'll reach our goals. We might run out of petrol on the way, but picking the right road to take is a good way of getting most of the way there. Most is better than not even close.

What if our kids don't have the same goals? Well, that's going to depend what goals they are. Some things are not negotiable. Reading, writing and cooking are on the list of goals whether they like it or not. What they read, cook and write about are negotiable.

 

:)

Rosie

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I chose a Classical Education because I wanted to give my children the best quality education. I graduated with a teaching degree and was appalled by how many teachers there are out there that are, as my son once called it, "brainless wonders." They have no knowledge themselves, so how can they teach my kids?

 

My personal beliefs about homeschooling:

 

1. I want a high quality education for my children.

2. I want them to become open-minded individuals with the ability to think for themselves and not just follow the crowd.

3. I want them to learn good manners and how to live in the real world.

4. I want to avoid all the bad influences and behaviors kids pick up at public school. (I won't tell you all the things my son learned in 1st grade ps--none of which was educational)

5. I want them to have a positive outlook on learning for a lifetime.

6. I want them to explore their own interests at their own pace.

7. I want them to have plenty of exercise and learn healthy eating habits that will last a lifetime.

8. I want them to feel loved and know that I am here for them when ever they need to talk.

 

Okay, I could go on...but I'll stop here. I think every family has their own reasons for choosing a classical education. Just remember, it is your right to teach your children what you wish! Let's not judge others for their reasons--whether homeschool, private or public.

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I just wanted literature based school because I was the highly intelligent one reading literature instead of doing my boring textbook work that I was supposed to be doing for school.

 

Imagine if my school was literature! I want that for my kids. So I guess classical is not really what I am after, or what I am doing. Literature-based really describes my homeschool better.

 

I like the chronological history, like Rosie.

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