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Connecting with ND teens


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I showed my old house, the one we lived in for ten plus years and bought just before my oldest was born, yesterday to potential renters(they passed on it; if you’re praying type we could really use prayers that we can find the money to fix it up enough to sell or find new renters—there’s not enough solid foundation under the kitchen for a bank to lend and we can’t afford the tens of thousands of dollars enough to fix it. How we got a loan in 2010 I’ll never know.).

And all the memories of the crazy toddler and little kid years came flooding back. It was crazy and hard but we had so much fun. I actually came home very sad.

But now they’re almost 14, 12 and 9.  I am really struggling to connect with my older two; some of it is neurodiversity with extremely rigid and narrow interests for both(my daughter has hit puberty and suddenly showing all kinds of autistic traits. Color me unsurprised. But anyway.) with no interest in doing the things I see other parents with teens doing and connecting over—skiing, crafts, hiking, working together toward something, etc.  My son’s narrow interest is dogs with some cryptids thrown in—like Bigfoot. My daughter’s entire world right now is…making google slide presentations of dogs.  I am so serious. She spends hours and hours doing this.  And I struggle to connect with them in any meaningful way.

If you have ND older kids or teens, are you able to connect with them?  I know some of this is just the age, but I miss all the things we did together when they were littles and want to find a way to still connect.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, SHP said:

Volunteer together with a shelter or rescue.

Get a dog and work with the kids to train it for agility.

Start a dog walking business.

Learn photography and photograph dogs

This. Start from the special interest, and chain out to other related pursuits.

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I forgot to mention: we have 3 dogs who are pretty well trained but we don’t really have the time for specialized training.

I tried the shelters; no one here allows volunteers until 18.  I thought that would be fun to do together but it’s a no go. I actually can’t find anyplace other than the food pantry that allows volunteering under the age of 18 even with an adult, and the food pantries volunteer hours are during school hours.
We live fairly rurally with no neighbors. So no dog parks, dog walking opportunities, etc.  

Edited by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again
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Do the kids have time? A certain amount of training could be done on their own, especially if they watched some videos for their own instruction and inspiration. Basic agility kits are available on Amazon.

That’s not really helping you spend time with them, though. I will think about that. 

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9 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

This. Start from the special interest, and chain out to other related pursuits.

Yes. I spent endless hours/days/years watching Top Gear and learning about volcanoes when DS was young. I'm an active participant in conversations from car manufacturers to airplane types, seat configurations and all sorts of details I'd never otherwise notice, to geopolitical issues to AI, to plumbing and endless other things I otherwise have zero interest in but DS obsesses about. I defer most of the maths and technology stuff to DH lol.

With him away at uni, we can always bond over cats. I send him photos of our kitties daily, we text each other silly threads from cat subreddits, and so on. That's our go-to, even when he's stressed.

Good luck, it's hard. Sending ((hugs))

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6 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Yes. I spent endless hours/days/years watching Top Gear and learning about volcanoes when DS was young. I'm an active participant in conversations from car manufacturers to airplane types, seat configurations and all sorts of details I'd never otherwise notice, to geopolitical issues to AI, to plumbing and endless other things I otherwise have zero interest in but DS obsesses about. I defer most of the maths and technology stuff to DH lol.

With him away at uni, we can always bond over cats. I send him photos of our kitties daily, we text each other silly threads from cat subreddits, and so on. That's our go-to, even when he's stressed.

Good luck, it's hard. Sending ((hugs))

I do get many, many dog memes texted to me. And cute dog pictures, asking how our dogs’ days went if it’s a work from home day, conversation about the teachers’ dogs. Maybe I need to readjust my thinking—perhaps my tween and teen are more comfortable connecting via text and sending dog memes.

I can tell how stressful DS’s school day was by the amount of dog memes texted to me on his bus ride home. The more memes the more stressful it was.  He finds them hilarious and calming.

My mom frequently reminds me that she got tired of listening to all the minute details of the titanic when I was 12, but I also remember how she never tried to use any of that to connect with me even though that’s how I tried in my own ND way to connect with people. I don’t want to be that Mom; I want to find a way into my kids’ worlds.

Edited by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again
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6 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I forgot to mention: we have 3 dogs who are pretty well trained but we don’t really have the time for specialized training.

I tried the shelters; no one here allows volunteers until 18.  I thought that would be fun to do together but it’s a no go. I actually can’t find anyplace other than the food pantry that allows volunteering under the age of 18 even with an adult, and the food pantries volunteer hours are during school hours.
We live fairly rurally with no neighbors. So no dog parks, dog walking opportunities, etc.  

Can you just go with him to the shelters? I know at ours many people just walk in to spend time with the animals, not on a volunteer basis. Once we went into a kitty room and there was a clearly autistic young man just sitting in a corner with his earphones on, accepting and loving on any kitty who came his way. It was so lovely and calming. Another woman there just talked with a petted the cats; she knew them all and said she came as often as she could.

You might have to go with him, but is something  like this worth considering?

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2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I do get many, many dog memes texted to me. And cute dog pictures, asking how our dogs’ days went if it’s a work from home day, conversation about the teachers’ dogs. Maybe I need to readjust my thinking—perhaps my tween and teen are more comfortable connecting via text and sending dog memes.

I can tell how stressful DS’s school day was by the amount of dog memes texted to me on his bus ride home. The more memes the more stressful it was.  He finds them hilarious and calming.

Yes, this is very similar with us. I'm so grateful for texting; it's been our primary way of communicating since he was in high school (he says it's easier than speaking, which makes sense to me).

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33 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Can you just go with him to the shelters? I know at ours many people just walk in to spend time with the animals, not on a volunteer basis.

I do that sometimes 🙂 

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I will have to see if there are any shelters we could at least walk through. My cousin is a vet nurse at one but it’s an hour away. The other shelters here are either (a) run by animal control, are high kill and probably would upset my kids too much, or (b) run by volunteers and just have a weird culture. It’s hard to explain. 

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I'm interested in the perspective from you Mrs. T. and from many of the responses here that "connecting" is connected with a person's interests or hobbies. I've never really considered the emotional connections, the bonding among family members, to be very much related to having shared interests. For me, a shared interest is a lovely way to start a friendship with a stranger -- but it's not at all necessary for the building of warmth and belonging with the people you already share your home and your life with.

- Spending time passively near each other is a really good bonding experience. Surely these kiddos spend time in some space within your home? Just spend time there too. Read a book. Do a crossword puzzle -- whatever. Just be proximate.

- Giving compliments is a really great relationship tool for teens.

- Giving gifts or treats, or taking teens somewhere where you spend money, or someplace that is a bit costly, can communicate to teens that you value them.

- Providing for teens (good meals, nice household stuff) communicates love and belonging.

- Building up a sense of family identity, shared values, and the diversity and community that makes your family what it is can be really helpful.

- This may be limited by neurodiversity, but letting teens into your life and asking for their advice or help with your 'problems' (nothing big or scary) can be really flattering for teens. Especially if you actually take their advice.

- Do you do anything together other than hang out at home and the necessary errands of everyday life? If so, there are probably ways to build those things into moments of shared fun. There are even ways of building 'moments of shared fun' into hanging out at home, and into errands and necessary outings.

You know, I think you are too close to this situation to understand completely how much family and core relationships matter to teens. They are foundational, and they don't need shared interests to prop them up. In my imagination, I bet any other observer of your kids would probably say that your teens have *two* intense foci for their lives: their dog-based explorations, and the importance of their family. You probably already are deeply connected. You don't need to be dog-centred to do hundreds of things that effectively build your kids' sense of love and belonging.

(All of which seems really obvious to me. So it leaves me wondering where the felt-problem actually is. Is it possible that your kids' neurodiversity is standing in the way of them communicating to you that they do feel bonded, connected and included at home? Is it possible that they don't broadcast those feelings very well, and maybe *you* are  the one left feeling a little bit like an outsider? If so, there might be a whole other list of strategies about how to help yourself feel and receive the family love and acceptance of your ND teens.)

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7 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I will have to see if there are any shelters we could at least walk through. My cousin is a vet nurse at one but it’s an hour away. The other shelters here are either (a) run by animal control, are high kill and probably would upset my kids too much, or (b) run by volunteers and just have a weird culture. It’s hard to explain. 

FWIW, our county shelter is run by animal control (aka the sheriff's department, essentially) and is much higher kill than I would like. But the public areas are fine, the cat room in particular. Once a cat makes it to the adoption room they're golden--they stay there as long as it takes to get adopted. So if your shelter has something like that it might not be upsetting. 

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2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I forgot to mention: we have 3 dogs who are pretty well trained but we don’t really have the time for specialized training.

I tried the shelters; no one here allows volunteers until 18.  I thought that would be fun to do together but it’s a no go. I actually can’t find anyplace other than the food pantry that allows volunteering under the age of 18 even with an adult, and the food pantries volunteer hours are during school hours.
We live fairly rurally with no neighbors. So no dog parks, dog walking opportunities, etc.  

Our dog shelter also said no volunteers under 18, but they also said that as long as I was the official volunteer, the kids could certainly be part of the dog walking or whatever.

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I agree with bolt to some degree, but at the same time, I think it’s fine to try to bond over shared interests also. I think of it as more of a both/and. My kids have been relatively independent with their shared interests. As long as I don’t denigrate the interest, it’s fine. My one kid went through a short phase of being a little miffed that I can’t tell cars apart (so many makes and models look the same now), but he got over it. I DO ask him about older cars that are more distinctive to me, and if I see something cool that I can send him a picture of, he appreciates it.

My other one is kind of actively trying to differentiate, and he sometimes exaggerated the disparity in interests, but he still hangs out and tries stuff with us.

So, yeah, I think having overlapping and separate interests are both okay.

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8 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

FWIW, our county shelter is run by animal control (aka the sheriff's department, essentially) and is much higher kill than I would like. But the public areas are fine, the cat room in particular. Once a cat makes it to the adoption room they're golden--they stay there as long as it takes to get adopted. So if your shelter has something like that it might not be upsetting. 

The one county shelter I’m thinking of is kind of run down and while the people mean very well, the lack of funding is evident. I’ve been there a couple times and it’s not someplace I’d take my particular kids, because I know they will then hyperfocus on the living conditions.

The other shelter is absolute on no one under 18 being on premises unless it is a family testing a dog with their kids. My sister walks dogs there and has said they are unlikely to bend that at all.  I suspect it has to do with the fact that they are the only shelter in the area that doesn’t immediately euthanize aggressive dogs.  

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I also struggle to connect with one of my teens in particular.  I won't have terrific advice since I haven't entirely figured it out here.

One thing that helped for a while was that I got educated about my kids' then favorite musician group.  For years, it was all silly to me, and I would make shallow comments, but once I started taking a real interest, we had something to talk about.  Though, one of my kids dumped this favorite group as soon as she realized I liked them. 😛  That's my oppositional kid.  😛  However, I try to sound interested in whatever group they are liking, and even took them to a couple concerts with their friends.

When conversing with my kids in general, even since they were preschoolers, I'd ask questions about everything other than my kids.  "What did you eat for lunch?  Was it good?  How are your friends doing?  How were your teachers / coaches today?"  Usually this will lead them to decide to tell me something about their lives.  Another option is to say, "what was your favorite thing about today?"  Also, "is there anything else I should know about today?"  Because if I outright ask about something I want them to tell me, they will react against that and end the conversation ASAP.

Being in the same room while the kid does her own thing helps with one of mine, but not the other.  The former enjoys cooking, and she really likes it if I'm in the room while she's cooking, though I'm probably cleaning or eating.  But my other kid will generally leave the room if I seem to be moving in.

Car time was great when my kids weren't driving themselves.  After getting the "how was your day" stuff over with, we'd listen to a good audiobook, and I'd stop it periodically to discuss some aspect of the story.  It was minimal / non-intrusive enough that they didn't turn me off.  Plus, they couldn't escape a moving car.  😛  If you have the option to put them in an activity that requires driving, it might be worth the hassle to get some additional interaction.

I communicate more via text nowadays, because it seems better than invading Miss Irritable's personal space / time.  She may not want to hear what I have to convey, but at least she's not giving me the "please leave" vibes, which I don't respond well to.

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My older two kids connect through their narrow interests.  It’s simply how they are wired.  Talking about dogs when either of them need reassurance or to reduce stress and anxiety is what works and definitely is how they feel loved. My oldest is able to verbalize to his social skills counselor at school that what makes him feel loved and cared about is when mom or dad listens to him talk about dogs and dog breeds and all of that.  In another year or two, it will be something else. I’m seeing subtle signs that his hyperfocus is shifting to cryptids and ancient theories like Atlantis. But right now when either of them need to feel emotionally safe, they want to talk about dogs. Or make google slides about dogs.

It’s simply how they connect.  
We don’t do a lot other than be home and running necessary errands.  The kids have no interest no matter what I’ve tried. They like camping mildly because we take the dogs and other people have dogs.  We went to a planetarium show yesterday and they hated it.  The zoo is acceptable, but it’s cold for that.  Really, neither of them want gifts or treats or outings. I offered a movie, the video gaming place at the mall, baking together, geocaching and a couple museums yesterday. I even offered to buy a new game for the Switch that we could all play together. None of it is of any interest. So we went home and they cuddled our dogs on the couch and discussed the problem of breeders and Merle coats for an hour with each other and then took naps and then brushed the dogs and looked up dog memes.

To be fair, we are also in the middle of a winter with no snow and temps that are just cold enough to not go to the zoo but too warm to do winter activities.  

And also to be fair this is exactly how I was as a teenager(though not about dogs).  I just always remember being totally disconnected from my parents because they never even tried, and I don’t want my kids to feel like I don’t try.

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Dog park?

Have you looked into local-ish dog shows?

What about volunteering to help with rescue animals on a farm?

Have you looked into whether they could do a 4H program built around dogs?

Another thing my kids and I have done together is 5Ks.  (Some of them allow dogs!)  This fits with one of my kids.  We don't have to talk to each other during the race, because she's faster than I am, but we have something to talk about on the drive home.  😛

 

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27 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Have you told them you miss them?

It went like this:

Me: You know, I miss the things we did when you were little, like the Sciencenter or the Play Museum.  We could do other things, things teenagers like.

DS: No, I don’t want to. Has W sent you any more pictures of her Rottweiler? I bet he is just a big lap dog, don’t you?

Me: She hasn’t lately but I can ask. He’s definitely getting big.  Hey, Madame Webb is coming out in a few weeks, would you like to go with me? We could go to Texas Roadhouse first and then to the movie.

DS: Did you know Texas Roadhouse lets service K9s come in and eat? They probably give them a steak. Do you think they give them a steak? I’m going to google it.

And yes, he gets social skills therapy and group and all of that, and I’ve spoken with his therapist, but in the end they just shrug and are like he has autism, you might not really be able to connect well with him. He’s so high functioning in school, self regulates very well and is high honors grade wise(he is even the middle school representative for the whole district to the school board, and manages to somehow weave dogs into every school board meeting) , that really no one but me sees an issue. And I am just mom.

Edited by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again
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4 minutes ago, SKL said:

Dog park?

Have you looked into local-ish dog shows?

What about volunteering to help with rescue animals on a farm?

Have you looked into whether they could do a 4H program built around dogs?

Another thing my kids and I have done together is 5Ks.  (Some of them allow dogs!)  This fits with one of my kids.  We don't have to talk to each other during the race, because she's faster than I am, but we have something to talk about on the drive home.  😛

 

There are no dog parks, but we do have a big national dog show within driving distance in the spring. That’s a perfect idea.

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3 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

... and manages to somehow weave dogs into every school board meeting) , that really no one but me sees an issue. And I am just mom.

My youngest was like this about horses.  Every school art or writing or presentation assignment - horses.  She talked her friends to death about horses.  We did have some social activities around horses (invited her friends to the barn) which everyone seemed to like enough.  She also made "barn friends" who could be her outlets when nobody else wanted to hear about her horse's drool.  😛

Now she's embarrassed looking back on all that.  It never really bothered me, but I did advise her that others could get annoyed by it.  But I think at some level she kind of wanted to be annoying.  😛  A bit of a non-conformity streak.

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It's kind of funny that you use your own life experience (disconnected mother who didn't engage) to mean that you're disconnected and not engaging. If people are living parallel and not engaging, it's not like you can MAKE them. It's doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. 

You could

-stand on your head figuratively and bend over backward to talk about their interests. You could even research or prepare interesting tidbits on their fav topics or send them youtube videos on their interests to discuss. They might like this. 

-encourage them to draw you in on their interests. For instance, my ds has this thing about digging holes right now (yes, for real), so he invited me to go for a walk with him to see a hole he dug. Might have been more convenient not to go, but it was a nice moment when I went.

-get them into shared moments that push them out of their comfort zone and temporarily PAUSE their fixation while simultaneously getting them into something they might also enjoy for a few moments. When I travel with my ds, this happens for us. 

-stop assuming everything that is happening is clinical. I link comedian Leanne Morgan for your consideration. 

 

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Tiggy, check with your local 4H extension office and ask if they have a dog club. Many of them do, and the kids do not have to have experience breeds for showing. Often they will help them work with any dog they own, and offer classes and workshops. You could attend one of the workshops, and then spend some time together training one of your dogs to do some basics. I have noticed that a lot of dogs enjoy working with their family as long as the training is fun and positive, not punishment based. You might meet a mom or two with whom you would enjoy conversing.

Chances are that your county or state fair also has a dog show, and that might be a fun outing with DD.

For ds, I think I would endure something like encouraging artwork and story writing about cryptids, and then reading the writing and commenting/discussing, helping him create a personal portfolio of the work. If there are any speakers coming to a local university to talk about the history of cryptic study, swallow deep, and take him to the lecture. Alcohol and pizza for you when he goes to bed. 

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2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

. He’s so high functioning in school, self regulates very well and is high honors grade wise(he is even the middle school representative for the whole district to the school board, and manages to somehow weave dogs into every school board meeting) , that really no one but me sees an issue.

Sounds like he’s working hard while he’s in school, and may need to relax with his own interests at home.

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

My oldest is able to verbalize to his social skills counselor at school that what makes him feel loved and cared about is when mom or dad listens to him talk about dogs and dog breeds and all of that.

It’s entirely understandable that you get more dog talk than you prefer, but given the above, I think you’re doing a great job of connecting with him. 

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@Mrs Tiggywinkle Again, I can relate so, so much. And it sounds to me like you're trying to connect, trying to show interest in their special interests and really...it's about all we can do.
 

Mine can have a conversation about anything (literally, everyone comments how he knows everything about everything, and they are right) but when he's tired or emotionally spent or as you said, needs to feel safe, the conversation will turn to airplanes or trains, or the cats if he needs to feel calm.

One way he and I connect when words won't work is to just lie quietly together. We've done this his whole life, either read or research on tablets or nap, when I sense his stress level rising. There's something soothing about being close (not too close) with no expectations for talking or pressure to participate in discussions. Like just holding a dog, I suppose.

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Do the shelters have a list of things they accept as donations for dogs? If there’s anything your teens could make—tug toys or treats?—that could be a great way to do something together or have them work on it and drop off the donation together.
 

Or if there’s nothing they could make, maybe they could organize gathering towels, blankets, donations for food, whatever. Interest and caring for animals is wonderful and fun in itself and a great way to practice social skills like empathy and understanding how others have different needs. 

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25 minutes ago, MEmama said:

@Mrs Tiggywinkle Again, I can relate so, so much. And it sounds to me like you're trying to connect, trying to show interest in their special interests and really...it's about all we can do.
 

Mine can have a conversation about anything (literally, everyone comments how he knows everything about everything, and they are right) but when he's tired or emotionally spent or as you said, needs to feel safe, the conversation will turn to airplanes or trains, or the cats if he needs to feel calm.

One way he and I connect when words won't work is to just lie quietly together. We've done this his whole life, either read or research on tablets or nap, when I sense his stress level rising. There's something soothing about being close (not too close) with no expectations for talking or pressure to participate in discussions. Like just holding a dog, I suppose.

Literally thank you for understanding lol.  It’s also good to know I’m not alone.

My oldest two will feel very loved and connected if I do things with them related to their interests.  I think it’s feeling seen.  
Making dog treats might be a great idea even if it’s for our own dogs.

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Would they listen while you read aloud to them? You could read while they’re researching on their laptops. There are so many different dog novels, but you could easily read any fun middle grade novel. My kids are similar ages and I still read aloud to them daily.

Maybe you and your oldest can listen to the Blurry Creatures podcast together. The early episodes are mostly about cryptids- they later get into theology of cryptids, nephilim, etc, which is also super interesting. It’s a really popular podcast and is geared toward adults so it wouldn’t be a chore for you to listen to with him. 😉

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29 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I think it’s feeling seen.

It's so much this, isn't it? And it's what many of us missed out on with our own parents, far too many who didn't know and didn't care what interested us when we were young.

I'm healing my own trauma of being ignored (and worse, widely mocked) by my own family by paying extra extra attention to DS and his interests and needs. I will say, I'm being massively rewarded by him now at 21, as he's matured and grown enough to appreciate the effort. I don't hesitate to tell him he's my favorite (ofc, I have only one so this won't work for you! lol) and now that we both understand him better I don't hesitate to apologize for not knowing better when he was younger. That we share so many traits is a connection all of itself.

 

 

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2 hours ago, MEmama said:

I don't hesitate to tell him he's my favorite (ofc, I have only one so this won't work for you! lol)

I have two, and they are both my favorite, lol!

I really like the idea of making stuff for a shelter or collecting donations. Any chance the local library would let your kids put on a short program for other kids that is about dogs and maybe offer a group project for the local shelter? Or even a project for a local vet? Or a make and take for your own dog? 

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26 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I have two, and they are both my favorite, lol!

I really like the idea of making stuff for a shelter or collecting donations. Any chance the local library would let your kids put on a short program for other kids that is about dogs and maybe offer a group project for the local shelter? Or even a project for a local vet? Or a make and take for your own dog? 

My daughter’s school has been letting her do a “guess the dog breed” google slide presentation for her class every week.  There’s only 9 kids in her grade and they all seem to enjoy it, plus her overall average for semester 1 was 98(she’s so smart lol), so they let her do this type of thing.

I am trying to find things we can do together that they’ll still be engaged in, so making and donating dog treats is a great idea.  It was so much easier when we just spent hours a day in sensory play together.

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