Sigh....so tired of flaky homeschoolers.

[Dmmetler]

I offer 2 ultra low cost classes a week for the homeschool community. The class fee pays for the room cost and for the consumable expenses. It doesn't pay me as a teacher. It doesn't cover the cost of instrument purchase or replacement, so building up to offer these classes has cost me money, as well as a lot of time. 

 

At this point, I'm averaging at least 2 kids out each week in each group, with no prior notice. In the younger group, One mom has already told me that they won't be doing the recital, and her kids seem to pick and choose what they want to do, knowing there are no consequences. Same kid broke an instrument case today by forcing it open, and didn't seem at all concerned about it. 

 

The older group whines and complains about everything. And again, they're in and out and all over the place. They're capable, but it very much feels like I'm a babysitter. 

 

I wanted to do it as a gift for the community, but it very much feels like the community doesn't want it or appreciate it, and that hurts, a lot. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Dmmetler

[prairiewindmomma]

That's super disappointing.

My experiences have been similar.  

[desertflower]

ugh! That does suck. So sorry. 

[wintermom]

That doesn't seem like it's helping anyone appreciate the value of music education. In my experience, the cost needs to be high enough for people to "care" and make greater efforts to be committed. This is not just for homeschoolers. It's wide spread. 

[fraidycat]

The psychology of money is that as a collective, we do not value it if we don't pay enough to value it. The more you charge, the more "valuable" your product becomes.

A Rolex doesn't keep time that much better than a $20 watch from a department store. And yet... 

 

[Dmmetler]

17 minutes ago, fraidycat said:

The psychology of money is that as a collective, we do not value it if we don't pay enough to value it. The more you charge, the more "valuable" your product becomes.

A Rolex doesn't keep time that much better than a $20 watch from a department store. And yet... 

 

The catch-22 is that music lessons are also one of the first things dropped when money gets tight. I've lost a handful of my private kids, and had others switch from private to group lessons because they just can't afford one more thing in the budget. And I get it-especially for multi-child families (one of mine who recently had to drop for financial reasons was spending $2500/yr on music lessons). 

 

And truthfully, I don't teach at the center for the money. We've been very fortunate in that we CAN live on one income, and that hasn't changed. It's something I started once L was mostly done homeschooling, and I've kept it in part because, well, I need to do SOMETHING. But I need it to be emotionally rewarding, and it's not when people drift in and out and don't take it seriously. 

 

If the public schools weren't so toxic, it would be really tempting to take one of those positions (there are 5 elementary and 3 middle school general music, 4 high school choir, and 2 high school band open in the big district right now) just so I could just teach and not worry about getting bodies in the room. I quit for a reason, though.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Dmmetler

[Ting Tang]

I pay $70 per month for a weekly 30 minute piano lesson.  I'm not sure if that is high or low, but we go to a music studio, and she is a wonderful teacher.  Even if my son doesn't become a concert pianist, it is as though he has learned another language.  His teacher does teach in private schools and also plays at funerals.  I know she isn't exactly getting rich.  It doesn't sound as though you are very appreciated for all that you are doing.  Yes, many public schools are toxic.  But some still pay well. Sometimes the band kids are some of the nicest! --Oh I always tell my husband that music teachers have to be so patient, listening to all the beginners, lol! 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Ting Tang

[Dmmetler]

I'm thinking next semester I may drop the homeschool classes and offer more preschool and mom/toddler/baby classes and class piano. I have one family class-5 moms and 8 kids age 0-5, and it's wonderful, as are my 2 class piano groups (4 kids, 1 hour rotational lesson/practice and a shared theory lesson and ensemble, so they each get about 10 minutes with me, 30 minutes of focused practice with me there to support, and 20 minutes of group stuff). 

[itsheresomewhere]

Honestly, this is one of the big reasons we stopped doing homeschool classes and went to ones regularly offered.  The lack of care for not only the staff and fellow students who wanted to actually learn and be there.  It is ridiculous. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by itsheresomewhere

[Grace Hopper]

Maybe you could offer an invitation-only or auditioned for level of class. To give those who are truly interested something to aspire to? That might get you a group of students that are more satisfying to work with. 
 

I totally agree with you that homeschoolers are flaky. In our later years of home based education, we stopped trying to do things with clubs and co-ops and just invited reliable families to occasionally do things together. I found myself holding the bag once too often for folks that no-showed or were way late to planned events (even ticketed performances). 

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, wintermom said:

That doesn't seem like it's helping anyone appreciate the value of music education. In my experience, the cost needs to be high enough for people to "care" and make greater efforts to be committed. This is not just for homeschoolers. It's wide spread. 

This is my experience as well. For ten years I offered scholarships.in my music studio, and for ten years, was constantly instantly taken advantage of by the parents who received them, and the kiss didn't take it seriously. I ended the scholarships and just went with the parents who paid full price and didn't expect discounts. I had some folks.my who had to dig deep to afford it, and their kids achieved so much. I think they knew mom and dad were making a sacrifice, and they wanted to do the best they could.

I tried teaching a homeschool general music class, and again it was a nightmare because people expected that it would be free or nearly free and there would be zero expectations. Ugh. That ended quickly.

We have recently had success with a homeschool enrichment co-op in Huntsville. We are teaching aerospace engineering and rocketry by zoom. The organizers took it seriously, the parents have to pay for the class, and we are having a lot of fun, and the adults who are in the class as the in person supervisors and helpers are pretty darn awesome. This had been a nice change. We went into it with very very low expectations and have been pleasantly surprised. The class is doing well.

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Honestly, this is one of the big reasons we stopped doing homeschool classes and went to ones regularly offered.  The lack of care for not only the staff and follow students who wanted to actually learn and be there.  It is ridiculous. 

It's frustrating. Imhave the time during the day, and I enjoy teaching...if kids want to be there and participate. As is stands, the kids who are participating most are my teen volunteers. Who are currently getting a lesson in why NOT to become a music teacher. 

[Shelydon]

I think instead of offering a low-cost class, you could offer a scholarship to one or two families. Make sure the scholarships have stipulations like attendance and drop the scholarship to families if they do not comply

[JustEm]

I would like to let you know that I would greatly appreciate something like that and wish there were options like that for my kids. 

I am sick of flaky homeschoolers too. And my children have cried many times because of it. We have had so many home school friends start things like book groups and then cancel them within the first month or 2 because they overbooked their schedules.

I'm incredibly protective of my schedule so we had to just start declining invitations from specific people because they were always cancelling.

[lmrich]

40 minutes ago, Shelydon said:

I think instead of offering a low-cost class, you could offer a scholarship to one or two families. Make sure the scholarships have stipulations like attendance and drop the scholarship to families if they do not comply

I was going to suggest this. 

I used  to offer low cost classes or  free classes. It wasn't until I  started charging more that people  took it seriously. If anyone ever stated that they could not  afford  it, they got a scholarship but in  exchange for  some basic volunteer thing like arrive five minutes early to help at drop  off  time. 

[Murphy101]

10 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Honestly, this is one of the big reasons we stopped doing homeschool classes and went to ones regularly offered.  The lack of care for not only the staff and fellow students who wanted to actually learn and be there.  It is ridiculous. 

Yep. I almost never do things that are advertised as for home schoolers. 

[vonfirmath]

14 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I pay $70 per month for a weekly 30 minute piano lesson.  I'm not sure if that is high or low, but we go to a music studio, and she is a wonderful teacher.  Even if my son doesn't become a concert pianist, it is as though he has learned another language.  His teacher does teach in private schools and also plays at funerals.  I know she isn't exactly getting rich.  It doesn't sound as though you are very appreciated for all that you are doing.  Yes, many public schools are toxic.  But some still pay well. Sometimes the band kids are some of the nicest! --Oh I always tell my husband that music teachers have to be so patient, listening to all the beginners, lol! 

I paid $22 per lesson for a weekly 30 minute -- which in actuality was about 25 minutes since it happened at school and thus is bounded by school schedules -- flute lesson last year and I believe her rates are increasing this year. (I have not seen an invoice yet for September)

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by vonfirmath

[73349]

14 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I pay $70 per month for a weekly 30 minute piano lesson.

For another reference point, I'm paying $144 a month for a weekly 30-minute private lesson.

I think it's true that some people value things based on what they've paid for them.

Sorry people are being like that.

[LauraClark]

I'm sorry-that is frustrating. I offer relatively inexpensive art classes and, for the most part, people have been very appreciative. I did ask this year that people let me know as soon as they can if they would not be in class (it is frustrating when you have prepped a bunch of stuff only to have the kids not show up). If attendance was an issue with the majority I would be very honest: "it is important that your student is in class at least x number of times a month". I've had a few flakey moms that just stopped showing up half way through the year. If they had asked to sign up this year I would not have allowed them to join again. I've found it helpful to just be very very clear about expectations-even expectations that you would think would be no-brainers. Every year I fine tune how I word things so that it's clear. I blame social media-it's easy to just leave groups or forums without giving a reason-seems like people are applying that to actual life too. I think calling people out on it can be a wake up call to them.

[Kassia]

16 hours ago, fraidycat said:

The psychology of money is that as a collective, we do not value it if we don't pay enough to value it. The more you charge, the more "valuable" your product becomes.

 

 

This is so true, unfortunately.

@Dmmetler I'm sorry that your kindness and generosity aren't appreciated.  We've experienced this issue with free or low cost homeschooling opportunities as well.  It's very frustrating.

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, 73349 said:

For another reference point, I'm paying $144 a month for a weekly 30-minute private lesson.

I think it's true that some people value things based on what they've paid for them.

Sorry people are being like that.

I'm in a relatively LCOL area, and my goal has always been to be an affordable program. My base rate for private lessons is $50/hr, so a 30 minute (really more like a 25 minute lesson) is $300 for a 12 lesson semester, and my group lessons are $200/semester. 

 

I've been running my homeschool classes at $75/semester-$60 covers the center, $15 to cover consumable materials. For a 90 minute/week class with an instructor with a graduate degree and decades of experience. 

 

For Spring, the homeschool classes are being cut to 45 minutes, and the cost is going up to $100/kid. Next fall it will be $10/class tuition plus a $25 materials fee-if I continue at all. I'm also putting a strict minimum number of students where if we don't have 10 paid by Jan 1, the class is cancelled. Because if I have at least 10, we'll have 5-6 each week. 

 

I'm putting in more caregiver/child classes and piano classes, because those filled this semester easily. I also think I'm going to try an evening group class (same class I'd do for the homeschoolers) and see how that goes. Because maybe then I'll get kids who actually want to be there. 

 

I spent this morning pulling songs from the files that we can put together in a very brief time, ones where kids can fit in without a lot of effort or, frankly, damage. I looked for ones where I can put my little kids singing and my big ones playing, or vice versa, but where both groups have a recording or someone playing piano to lean on, because then if worse comes to worse, I can combine them for performance. I carefully picked songs that will work for our Halloween fundraiser...but that the kids who "don't do Halloween" have no reason NOT to do in class (this has been part of the problem. Seriously, if you don't do Halloween, why would you sign your kid up for a class that has a Halloween concert on the schedule, at a venue where Halloween is our biggest fundraiser of the year?-these kids KNOW they don't get to do the concert, and mom essentially gave them a "get out of anything you want" free card. And told me this with less than 5 minutes before class yesterday). Not anymore. I scrapped all the plans I had and rebuilt them today. 

 

And I sent out nice cheery emails to parents with the link to my class site, which happens to have all the new audio files and PDF's, so they have NO excuse. 

 

 

 

 

[wisdomandtreasures]

19 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

Same kid broke an instrument case today by forcing it open, and didn't seem at all concerned about it. 

I would make parents sign a paper saying that if they break something of yours, they must replace it with a suitable replacement (aka not the cheapest piece of junk off eBay but either the same item or similar quality). You might also charge for the month regardless of how many lessons there are (our piano teacher does this) or drop people from the class if they miss too often just to weed out the people who aren't serious about it. 

That is very frustrating. My daughters' ballet teacher has had to tell several of the girls "I am a ballet teacher, not a babysitter." I think a lot of homeschoolers are looking at classes as socialization time and nothing else, with no respect or concern for the time and effort of the teacher and it makes us all look bad. 

[Clarita]

2 minutes ago, wisdomandtreasures said:

I would make parents sign a paper saying that if they break something of yours, they must replace it with a suitable replacement (aka not the cheapest piece of junk off eBay but either the same item or similar quality).

My children's previous music instructor had a contract we had to sign that said if our children damaged her property we would have to pay to replace the equipment. Basically she would just tell us how much money to pay her for the damages. I can't believe the parent just treated the damage of property so nonchalantly.

[kbutton]

10 hours ago, Shelydon said:

I think instead of offering a low-cost class, you could offer a scholarship to one or two families. Make sure the scholarships have stipulations like attendance and drop the scholarship to families if they do not comply

I think that’s a great idea! 

2 hours ago, wisdomandtreasures said:

I think a lot of homeschoolers are looking at classes as socialization time and nothing else, with no respect or concern for the time and effort of the teacher and it makes us all look bad. 

This. Is there a way to offer the occasional social time to help offset that? Is there a place on site to suggest that parents gather before or after class so that your class can stay about music, assuming this affects you?

4 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

For Spring, the homeschool classes are being cut to 45 minutes, and the cost is going up to $100/kid. Next fall it will be $10/class tuition plus a $25 materials fee-if I continue at all. I'm also putting a strict minimum number of students where if we don't have 10 paid by Jan 1, the class is cancelled. Because if I have at least 10, we'll have 5-6 each week. 

That fall price is approaching what we paid for homeschool band/choir several years ago. We also did fundraisers that were easy and well-timed. We had a local candy maker who also donated some of her proceeds to a good cause, and she offered a lot of cost-effective options. We sold late fall, and pickup was at the Christmas concert. People ordered teacher gifts and stocking stuffers. It was great.

There were some flaky parents but not a ton. It was always a challenge to get kids to stop talking and play, but they really did like their music, so they got to it eventually. We usually had a party per semester to let people have fun just hanging out (taco bar with signups or provided main dish with people bringing sides). 

[MercyA]

I'm so sorry. You are a treasure.

[Dmmetler]

I do two social events each year, and actually allow homeschoolers who are doing both my class and art to hang out and eat lunch in my room in between. 

[Dmmetler]

3 hours ago, kbutton said:

I think that’s a great idea! 

This. Is there a way to offer the occasional social time to help offset that? Is there a place on site to suggest that parents gather before or after class so that your class can stay about music, assuming this affects you?

That fall price is approaching what we paid for homeschool band/choir several years ago. We also did fundraisers that were easy and well-timed. We had a local candy maker who also donated some of her proceeds to a good cause, and she offered a lot of cost-effective options. We sold late fall, and pickup was at the Christmas concert. People ordered teacher gifts and stocking stuffers. It was great.

There were some flaky parents but not a ton. It was always a challenge to get kids to stop talking and play, but they really did like their music, so they got to it eventually. We usually had a party per semester to let people have fun just hanging out (taco bar with signups or provided main dish with people bringing sides). 

It's still less than most similar activities in the area, and half the cost of private lessons. And it's high enough that I could afford to give out several scholarships in each class for those who deserve them, possibly even some for private lessons. I've got a lot of stuff on my wishlist for teaching. 

 

And if they don't want to pay it...well, fine.