Does something like this exist? ID cards and scanners, small scale

[busymama7]

We have a large homeschool weekly event, paid classes. Not a coop.  We are wanting to increase security a bit and it was suggested that we have a check in and out procedure. This sounds like a logistical nightmare honestly even if we have a checklist of names.  We have around 250 students.  Is there something that would allow us to issue id cards that could be scanned as they entered and left like you do on a cruise ship? I mean I'm sure it exists but I can't figure out what to search for and it would need to be affordable for the scale we need.  Thanks for any ideas!

[fairfarmhand]

Could you issue lanyards with some sort of badge attached so that students are only permitted in if they have the appropriate lanyard? Those who have forgotten their lanyard, have to check in manually with their parent at a different spot.  Maybe different colors for varying ages?  They wouldn't necessarily have to scan, just be inspected to ensure they are the correct lanyard. You an buy the lanyards at Oriental Trading Company and stuff them with whatever printable cardstock ID badge you create.

Edited July 5, 2023 by fairfarmhand

[vonfirmath]

Maybe look at the system school libraries use for checking in and out books?

 

Our church has a system where you sign in on a computer and get labels. The child wears one and the parent holds the parent label to show to the teacher to pick the child up. The person picking the child up has to have that day's label/ a picture of it (so if one parent drops off and the other picks up, parent one can take a picture of the label and send to the other parent)  ETA -- they use this for Sunday school and for the weekly AWANAs program we offer.

(Our old church had a similar system that could be accessed from the parking lot. So a family could "Sign in" as they arrived and have their labels waiting for them when they went into the building)

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by vonfirmath

[Arcadia]

Maybe something like this to print for each child https://www.avery.com/software/barcode-generator/

I think cellphones can be used as barcode/QR code scanners. 

[busymama7]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

Could you issue lanyards with some sort of badge attached so that students are only permitted in if they have the appropriate lanyard? Those who have forgotten their lanyard, have to check in manually with their parent at a different spot.  Maybe different colors for varying ages?  They wouldn't necessarily have to scan, just be inspected to ensure they are the correct lanyard. You an buy the lanyards at Oriental Trading Company and stuff them with whatever printable cardstock ID badge you create.

So we aren't necessarily worried about kids coming on campus who aren't students. I suppose that could happen but what the new security person wants is to know exactly who is on campus and when.  So a more direct sign in/out for both parents and students.  

[Farrar]

That sounds like a huge logistical nightmare. I can think of ways to have folks sign a literal piece of paper, but that's a major annoyance. At the co-op where I used to work, they always had a door monitor who could theoretically have done that if they knew everyone or everyone wore a name tag. But they probably would have gotten overwhelmed. I just glanced and there are apps that work like old fashioned punch cards. But again, you've got a buy in system. Would folks really use it? How would you enforce it?

I think you have to weigh the cost in time, hassle, and culture shift, not to mention literal monetary costs with the potential benefits of security. What would it achieve to have such a list? What would be the purpose? Would it really make everyone safer? How and why?

[Drama Llama]

What is the youngest age you have?  What exactly are you concerned about happening?

I understand that daycares, especially ones with very young kids, need some kind of system so that they can identify which adults can take which kids.  But once kids can say "That's my Dad" or "You're not my mom", I think checking for every single kid is overkill.  Make sure that the location where kids are matched up with parents is well supervised.  Be super aware of families where there is a parent a kid shouldn't leave with (but also that you can't actually deny a parent their child, even a parent without primary custody, without very specific legal documentation). But beyond that, I think scanning school aged kids is just theater.  

[busymama7]

13 minutes ago, Farrar said:

That sounds like a huge logistical nightmare. I can think of ways to have folks sign a literal piece of paper, but that's a major annoyance. At the co-op where I used to work, they always had a door monitor who could theoretically have done that if they knew everyone or everyone wore a name tag. But they probably would have gotten overwhelmed. I just glanced and there are apps that work like old fashioned punch cards. But again, you've got a buy in system. Would folks really use it? How would you enforce it?

I think you have to weigh the cost in time, hassle, and culture shift, not to mention literal monetary costs with the potential benefits of security. What would it achieve to have such a list? What would be the purpose? Would it really make everyone safer? How and why?

Oh I agree.  I spoke up immediately and said no way is that going to work.   But I'm trying to do my due diligence and see if there is anything out there that would make it possible.

[busymama7]

9 minutes ago, BandH said:

What is the youngest age you have?  What exactly are you concerned about happening?

I understand that daycares, especially ones with very young kids, need some kind of system so that they can identify which adults can take which kids.  But once kids can say "That's my Dad" or "You're not my mom", I think checking for every single kid is overkill.  Make sure that the location where kids are matched up with parents is well supervised.  Be super aware of families where there is a parent a kid shouldn't leave with (but also that you can't actually deny a parent their child, even a parent without primary custody, without very specific legal documentation). But beyond that, I think scanning school aged kids is just theater.  

We have kids as young as 4 enrolled but their parent has to stay on campus. They aren't allowed on campus without a parent or other adult until they are 10. 

This is our 9th year of operation and we have not had any problems that this would solve.   But we moved locations and are nearer to a homeless population and while there for a board meeting recently we had some trying to get us to let them in.  We stood our ground and no one was in danger (the vast majority of homeless people are harmless)   but it lead to a discussion of how to handle security.  There is a dad involved with the organization that is a high security security officer and has that day off. He is willing to provide security and this check in/out system was his idea.  I think he wants to know exactly who is on campus at every moment. 

[Kuovonne]

What about a system where you post a QR code that leads to a sign-in form? With this system, you could have people “check-in” other people who aren’t actually on campus, but it could be done for practically free. Our church has used this method for people to self-report attendance at some events. 
 

Or if you want, you could have a system where you issue a QR code to each person/family. Then a security greeter on-site would scan the QR codes and note that the person is present. This could also be practically free at the scale you mention, except you would need someone to man the scanning station, and setup is a touch more complicated. A summer camp that my daughter went to used a system like this where they issued each kid their own unique QR code. Kids had to present their QR codes whenever they wanted to check in/out. 

[Clarita]

38 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

There is a dad involved with the organization that is a high security security officer and has that day off. He is willing to provide security and this check in/out system was his idea.  I think he wants to know exactly who is on campus at every moment. 

I think such systems exists, because I've seen what @vonfirmath speaks of at several churches (even my own, although for the class room that I was involved in the tech never really worked), but post pandemic we stopped using it (I don't know why).

Maybe have that dad look into it and bring in some suggestions. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Iclasspro checkin kiosk sounds kind of like what you are looking for. But, it’s spendy to use just for its checkin feature. The scheduling and billing features may make it worth it depending on your scale. https://support.iclasspro.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018661754-How-Does-the-Check-In-Kiosk-Work-

[Bootsie]

4 hours ago, busymama7 said:

We have kids as young as 4 enrolled but their parent has to stay on campus. They aren't allowed on campus without a parent or other adult until they are 10. 

This is our 9th year of operation and we have not had any problems that this would solve.   But we moved locations and are nearer to a homeless population and while there for a board meeting recently we had some trying to get us to let them in.  We stood our ground and no one was in danger (the vast majority of homeless people are harmless)   but it lead to a discussion of how to handle security.  There is a dad involved with the organization that is a high security security officer and has that day off. He is willing to provide security and this check in/out system was his idea.  I think he wants to know exactly who is on campus at every moment. 

Knowing what the purpose of any security measure is important in designing the security measure.  It isn't clear to me which is the concern:  someone coming into the building that is not part of the group; a small child leaving the building with someone other than their parent; a teen leaving the building when they are supposed to be there.  

What would be accomplished by knowing exactly who is on campus at every moment?  If you have a system that only lets people in who are supposed to be there, why does it matter who the specific people are an at what moment they arrived?  And, such a system doesn't seem to address people leaving when they shouldn't unless the system is constantly monitored; it would simply record the time that someone did leave.  

[Lady Marmalade]

I feel like there should be a way that you could use an ipad and have each person entering the space type in a unique number and it would check them in and out. A numerical check in system? Not sure if there is such a thing as a free one, but maybe?

[Drama Llama]

Do you have the ability to control all the entrances and exits?  

[Carrie12345]

This was smaller scale (around 100 kids and however many parents), but we put out an alphabetical list of every member each day with multiple check in/out boxes. It lived at the desk by the main entrance that was manned. “Signing” was just a check mark. Visitors were written in manually. Since membership was pretty consistent, it was just a matter of printing off the spreadsheet.  The same basic idea was used at a larger coop we attended, and it wasn’t terrible.  
It also wasn’t perfect. But neither would be an expensive set up with people forgetting cards.

The main purpose for us was in case of fire evacuation (and we did drills), and if there was an issue or injury with a child. Parents could list a back up adult when they were out of the building (in addition to filed emergency contacts), so we’d know who to go to.

[Clemsondana]

At our co-op people come and go throughout the day.  We have badges with bar codes that we scan in and out with.  The process is fairly quick.  I don't know that it's set up to easily know who is on campus at any given time, but we can go back and see who was there and what time they left.  

At church they use a different set-up where families sign in and it prints a label for each kid and one for the parent.  When a parent picks up, the adult collects the parent label and all of the kid stickers so that you can see that an appropriate adult picked up kids A, B, and C.  

[wintermom]

Are people coming and going at different times throughout the day? Are parents entering the building to stay and/or drop off their child(ren)? Are other people using the same building at the same time. 

I think the cheapest and safest is to have a person (volunteer parent on a rotation basis) at the door monitoring who is coming and going. Unless you're really worried about allowing only certain people into the building, you don't really "need" badges/id tags. The door monitor can be a greeter and provide some info/guidence to different roons.

ETA: We've done this for years at our Suzuki music school, where we only rent the facility (school) on a weekly basis. It's worked out really well. Also helps to build a little more community feel when there is a human being at the door.

Edited July 6, 2023 by wintermom

[Danae]

How about super low tech . . . a board with a card that is flipped or a magnet that is slid over when you arrive and leave?

[KungFuPanda]

What is the purpose of checking in and out?  Do you need to know who is there at all times and who isn't?  If you just need to prescreen people and let them move in and out at will, can you manage with wrist bands or hand stamps or badges? I attend one event that uses black light stamps and security checks their hand with a UV flashlight.  

If you need to track kids, maybe the under 18 crowd hands in their badge and it's placed on a board until they get back.  Then you know who has left the premises? Kid badges can be a different color so security can spot them easily if they try to leave without checking out.

Edited July 6, 2023 by KungFuPanda

[KungFuPanda]

How many people are we talking about?

 

[busymama7]

9 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Knowing what the purpose of any security measure is important in designing the security measure.  It isn't clear to me which is the concern:  someone coming into the building that is not part of the group; a small child leaving the building with someone other than their parent; a teen leaving the building when they are supposed to be there.  

What would be accomplished by knowing exactly who is on campus at every moment?  If you have a system that only lets people in who are supposed to be there, why does it matter who the specific people are an at what moment they arrived?  And, such a system doesn't seem to address people leaving when they shouldn't unless the system is constantly monitored; it would simply record the time that someone did leave.  

We already monitor the only open entrance.   Small kids are already with their parents and older kids are old enough that leaving to walk to their car just hasn't been a problem.   I don't understand why we need to know who is on campus at any given second.   It's just what was suggested. 

[busymama7]

3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

How many people are we talking about?

 

We had 260 students last term.  Plus parents who stay on campus and siblings.  Most drop off though. People are coming and going over a 5 hr period.

[busymama7]

4 hours ago, wintermom said:

Are people coming and going at different times throughout the day? Are parents entering the building to stay and/or drop off their child(ren)? Are other people using the same building at the same time. 

I think the cheapest and safest is to have a person (volunteer parent on a rotation basis) at the door monitoring who is coming and going. Unless you're really worried about allowing only certain people into the building, you don't really "need" badges/id tags. The door monitor can be a greeter and provide some info/guidence to different roons.

ETA: We've done this for years at our Suzuki music school, where we only rent the facility (school) on a weekly basis. It's worked out really well. Also helps to build a little more community feel when there is a human being at the door.

We already do this.  It hasn't been any kind of problem.  The need to have people check in and out is a new suggestion and I'm trying to find out why and how important because it is a logistical nightmare. 

[wintermom]

13 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

We already do this.  It hasn't been any kind of problem.  The need to have people check in and out is a new suggestion and I'm trying to find out why and how important because it is a logistical nightmare. 

I don't know what "check in and out" actually means for your situation, and what physically happens during this process to make it a logistical nightmare. Who needs to "check in," when do they need to do this and why? 

Maybe your organization just needs to slim down exactly information that "needs" to be captured. Is it the students in their individual classes? If so, you could have an instructor or a parent volunteer complete attendance. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by wintermom

[busymama7]

8 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I don't know what "check in and out" actually means for your situation, and what physically happens during this process to make it a logistical nightmare. Who needs to "check in," when do they need to do this and why? 

Maybe your organization just needs to slim down exactly information that "needs" to be captured. Is it the students in their individual classes? If so, you could have an instructor or a parent volunteer complete attendance. 

So what I'm understanding is that as they enter campus at the only open entrance, they mark a paper with the time they arrive.   Same procedure as they leave.  It's around 300 people so it just doesn't seem feasible.  They would be somewhat staggered arrivals and departures though as not everyone is there for the entire time.   The needing to mark a paper is what was leading me to see if there was a scanner situation that would be faster.  

[wintermom]

Just now, busymama7 said:

So what I'm understanding is that as they enter campus at the only open entrance, they mark a paper with the time they arrive.   Same procedure as they leave.  It's around 300 people so it just doesn't seem feasible.  They would be somewhat staggered arrivals and departures though as not everyone is there for the entire time.   The needing to mark a paper is what was leading me to see if there was a scanner situation that would be faster.  

Are you on the organizing group? Maybe you could ask them what is necessary. Perhaps it's the facility rental agreement that requires this. 

[Danae]

Security Officer dude is coming from a “high security” perspective.  If there is an incident knowing who is there means you know if everyone is accounted for or if there needs to be search and rescue.  
 

Your board will have to decide how to weigh the chances of needing this vs the hassle.

[busymama7]

40 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Are you on the organizing group? Maybe you could ask them what is necessary. Perhaps it's the facility rental agreement that requires this. 

I am on the executive board.  Security is requesting and we are trying to figure out if we can reasonably commodate this.  I wasn't finding anything on Google and this is my best resource of people who know stuff 😉

[Drama Llama]

As someone who works in education, I think that it's really important to always have a list of which students are in your care that you can easily access.  Things like fire alarms, and weather alerts makes this a good idea.  You want something that's portable and creates a permanent record, rather than something like a magnet board.  

I hate to be scary, but thinking of that awful Nashville shooting, the fact that the police got there in minutes and were met at the door by someone who could tell them exactly which children were unaccounted for and what rooms they were likely in, was probably one of the things that saved lives.  So, this is important.  It can be a clipboard where parents put a check next a name, or google form where parents type, or whatever, but that knowledge is critical.  

I also think that if you can control entrance, restricting the building to those people who have legitimate business is excellent, although know that if someone wants to get in, a parent volunteer isn't going to stop them.

But, I also think it's important not to make false promises.  I think that promising that you'll know whenever teenagers leave, when fire code requires you to have doors that open to the outside isn't realistic, and making it seem like you know sets you up to be liable.  Similarly, I think that saying you're going to come up with some system for matching every parent to every child is not realistic.  Having little ones (it sounds like under 10) dismissed at the door of the classroom by a teacher who hopefully recognizes mom makes sense.  Making it clear that unless you have a very specific situation (and I say this as a parent whose kids have a very specific situation) that kids 10 and up should know who they are allowed to leave with, and that adults will be spread out and keeping eyes open so that someone taking a child against their will is noticed makes more sense than promising something you can't deliver, and having parents think "My ex won't be able to pick up, they have a system" as a reason not to share the documents you need to actually protect a child, is a mistake.  

 

[wintermom]

20 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

I am on the executive board.  Security is requesting and we are trying to figure out if we can reasonably commodate this.  I wasn't finding anything on Google and this is my best resource of people who know stuff 😉

I think the pen and pencil collection process is not only a bottle-neck with time and bodies, but also potentially faulty, particularly if people skip past the check-in for various reasons. A card scan or key fob type of door entry might be better, but probably far too expensive and there is still the good chance that people will slip in or out without having to use the key fob. 

Why not ask "security" what they require of other building users, and see if they have some good suggestions. 

[Kuovonne]

I think a big decision is if you can trust people to self-report their comings and goings, or if you need a system where a hall monitor enforces checking in/out. 
 

In my old co-op, we had sticky name tags for every kid. Kids picked up their name tags when they checked in. Any leftover name tags meant that a kid was absent. But everyone arrived and left at basically the same time, versus having staggered arrival/departure times. 
 

I still think that a system could be built in Airtable or Coda with little to no ongoing monthly costs. 

[kbutton]

34 minutes ago, BandH said:

As someone who works in education, I think that it's really important to always have a list of which students are in your care that you can easily access.  Things like fire alarms, and weather alerts makes this a good idea.  You want something that's portable and creates a permanent record, rather than something like a magnet board.  

I hate to be scary, but thinking of that awful Nashville shooting, the fact that the police got there in minutes and were met at the door by someone who could tell them exactly which children were unaccounted for and what rooms they were likely in, was probably one of the things that saved lives.  So, this is important.  It can be a clipboard where parents put a check next a name, or google form where parents type, or whatever, but that knowledge is critical.  

I also think that if you can control entrance, restricting the building to those people who have legitimate business is excellent, although know that if someone wants to get in, a parent volunteer isn't going to stop them.

But, I also think it's important not to make false promises.  I think that promising that you'll know whenever teenagers leave, when fire code requires you to have doors that open to the outside isn't realistic, and making it seem like you know sets you up to be liable.  Similarly, I think that saying you're going to come up with some system for matching every parent to every child is not realistic.  Having little ones (it sounds like under 10) dismissed at the door of the classroom by a teacher who hopefully recognizes mom makes sense.  Making it clear that unless you have a very specific situation (and I say this as a parent whose kids have a very specific situation) that kids 10 and up should know who they are allowed to leave with, and that adults will be spread out and keeping eyes open so that someone taking a child against their will is noticed makes more sense than promising something you can't deliver, and having parents think "My ex won't be able to pick up, they have a system" as a reason not to share the documents you need to actually protect a child, is a mistake.  

All of this. One of the places I worked had fire drills on the regular (software company, not a school, lol!), and counting people was part of the drill--there was probably a definite list of who might be there, but they were also relying on people knowing who in their department was out that day by word of mouth. And it was a moderate number of people who all worked relatively closely. 

For littler kids, having one of the parent volunteers take attendance each week is probably a good idea. 

I would think that having a parent volunteer in each class to take attendance for that class period is a good idea, and that parent could just text a list of missing kids to the security person. Then people who leave early or come in late could sign a sheet--no bottleneck.

Having had a child cause a minor and short-lived kerfluffle once during a fire drill (doing what he was supposed to), I can assure you that there is no perfect system. In our case, my son was still in a regular school at the time, and he was in the bathroom when the fire alarm went off for a drill. He took the nearest exit to the bathroom instead of exiting with his class, but it messed up the count when everyone was outside. They figured it out quickly enough though. 

As an added suggestion that might yield more mileage than an elaborate check-in...if possible, have some dedicated emergency grab and go bags with some calming things inside as well as something like a tarp to sit on in inclement weather. I wouldn't have thought of this, but our old church had these for 6th grade on down, and adults who were likely to keep a cool head or who enquired generally about safety knew about these bags (and all teachers knew generally where exits were and to keep kids together--we once had an alarm malfunction, and the whole church had to be evacuated). It's easier to keep kids together in a natural disaster scenario if you can tell them all to sit on the tarp, especially if it's wet. You can stick some small comfort items and a first aid kit in there too. Maybe some shelf-stable small snacks or drinks also.

If you provide a room for moms with littles or even sitters for kids not old enough to be in the co-op, be sure that if the building has to be evacuated or people have to sit out a tornado that security people offer extra hands for those kids in the nursery, especially if there aren't multi-child strollers or wagons or such available to them.

Edited July 6, 2023 by kbutton

[busymama7]

46 minutes ago, BandH said:

As someone who works in education, I think that it's really important to always have a list of which students are in your care that you can easily access.  Things like fire alarms, and weather alerts makes this a good idea.  You want something that's portable and creates a permanent record, rather than something like a magnet board.  

I hate to be scary, but thinking of that awful Nashville shooting, the fact that the police got there in minutes and were met at the door by someone who could tell them exactly which children were unaccounted for and what rooms they were likely in, was probably one of the things that saved lives.  So, this is important.  It can be a clipboard where parents put a check next a name, or google form where parents type, or whatever, but that knowledge is critical.  

I also think that if you can control entrance, restricting the building to those people who have legitimate business is excellent, although know that if someone wants to get in, a parent volunteer isn't going to stop them.

But, I also think it's important not to make false promises.  I think that promising that you'll know whenever teenagers leave, when fire code requires you to have doors that open to the outside isn't realistic, and making it seem like you know sets you up to be liable.  Similarly, I think that saying you're going to come up with some system for matching every parent to every child is not realistic.  Having little ones (it sounds like under 10) dismissed at the door of the classroom by a teacher who hopefully recognizes mom makes sense.  Making it clear that unless you have a very specific situation (and I say this as a parent whose kids have a very specific situation) that kids 10 and up should know who they are allowed to leave with, and that adults will be spread out and keeping eyes open so that someone taking a child against their will is noticed makes more sense than promising something you can't deliver, and having parents think "My ex won't be able to pick up, they have a system" as a reason not to share the documents you need to actually protect a child, is a mistake.  

 

So the teachers do take roll and they have a folder with the class list for the purpose of grabbing and go. We practice a fire drill each term so this is well established.  It doesn't account for each person on campus because of parents and siblings that are waiting etc.   And the purpose of increased security isn't necessarily for kids pick up etc. It is to prevent someone from entering the campus that isn't with us.  The hired security would be at the entrance with another parent.  

[JennyD]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

It is to prevent someone from entering the campus that isn't with us.

 

2 hours ago, BandH said:

I also think that if you can control entrance, restricting the building to those people who have legitimate business is excellent, although know that if someone wants to get in, a parent volunteer isn't going to stop them.

I belong to several institutions that have serious safety concerns and spend a lot of time (and money) on security.  One thing to keep in mind is that you can have the most elaborate check-in system in the world, but it's all for naught if the person at the door feels uncomfortable turning anyone away, or people going in and out politely hold the door for others coming in.   Actively restricting access isn't just a technological matter, it's a cultural one as well, and it has very real social and psychological costs that everyone needs to be willing to pay.

The other thing that I would urge your board to do is to connect with local law enforcement before deciding on new safety procedures.  They are the ones who are most in touch with the actual risks that you might face and are likely to give you the most sensible advice.

 

 

 

 

[rebcoola]

So at ours only parents who are staying but not officially volunteering  and kids not in class have to check in because everyone else is already accounted for by the roll call.