if your teen was a bad driver

[kristin0713]

16 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

She had one lesson in a parking lot. People are pointing out that their young adults had months of lessons in parking lots. 

I know this was not clear from my initial or follow-up posts, but we have been taking her to parking lots a few times a week since she got her permit in February. We just started with the lessons last month. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect her to now be able to drive 15mph in a neighborhood without seeming like she might hit a parked car or mailbox. 

After her last lesson, the instructor told me that she needs to get out of the parking lot and onto real roads. She said she needs to get the feel for longer stretches of roads, the lines in the middle of the road, the shoulder, and curbs.  

Based on responses, I guess I am in it for the long haul with her, but I really don't understand what is happening here. 

I had NO CLUE how to drive when I started. I had never driven ANYTHING - not a go-cart, or a golf cart, or a ride-on lawn mower. The instructor took me to a parking lot to learn how to steer ONCE. For the first lesson only. Then I was on the road for the rest of the lessons. This is mandatory in NJ before getting a permit, so I guess one difference is that I had the six hours with an instructor first before my parents ever got in the car with me. 

 

15 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t recall knowing anyone who was a reluctant driver like I see these days.  It is a very strange phenomenon IMO.

I completely agree. I think this is a pretty recent phenomenon and I find it bizarre. 

Another thing that makes it very frustrating with her is that she will not drive with any friends. She thinks that teens are not safe drivers and just absolutely will NOT drive with a friend. So for example, two weeks ago she was invited to a party for a friend. They planned to meet and go bowling, then go to mini-golf and have ice cream. These locations are 25 minutes from our house, but the mini golf place is 5 min from the bowling place and it is a very low traffic, easy country road. I wanted her to get a ride with a friend just from bowling to mini golf so that I could drop her off and pick her up later and she would not. So I drove her to the bowling alley and waited and hour. Then I drove her to mini golf and waited and waited because I didn't know how long they would be. It was another 2+ hours. I could have gone home but I didn't know, and I didn't want to add 50 minutes. I was so furious by the end of this. 

I know someone will say that at some point she will need to decide whether to drive with a friend or not go, or whether to get her license and have more freedom or miss out on opportunities. The thing is that that kid has been through a lot socially and is finally starting to thrive. We moved out of state a year ago and it has been a tough adjustment for her. She has friends now and is getting invited to things and I want her to go! But I DON'T want to spend hours and hours driving and waiting for her when it is not necessary. She also has OCD and anxiety, and I guarantee that in the situation I explained above, she would have chosen to miss out on the party rather than drive with her friend that I do trust to drive her five minutes down the road. 

To be super clear, I am not expecting her to drive on highways or anything hard right now. My expectations are to try and to practice and to gradually increase willingness to drive places WITH us. Even after getting her license, I do expect that she will need a lot of practice with us on very specific and easy routes before she is ready to tackle them alone. That is fine. I guess we will just need more lessons...and then probably more. 

[kristin0713]

31 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Maybe the pressure of being on a public road, with all the distractions and stress are impacting her ability to learn. Could you take her to a go-cart track and allow her to focus on steering and turning in an isolated, open-air vehicle, with far fewer distractions. The go carts are super fun, too. Driving should have elements of enjoyment or at least positive feelings. There are certainly enough negative factors when driving that will take away from the fun parts. 

I just discovered that the local high school and middle school complex has lot of roads all around it and connecting the schools and they have lots of types of roads and lines, stop signs, etc. so it will be a great place to practice when no one is there this summer. 

[kathyl]

14 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

I just discovered that the local high school and middle school complex has lot of roads all around it and connecting the schools and they have lots of types of roads and lines, stop signs, etc. so it will be a great place to practice when no one is there this summer. 

I think this is an excellent idea!  🙂

[Scarlett]

38 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

 

 

I completely agree. I think this is a pretty recent phenomenon and I find it bizarre. 

 

I think you are doing all you can. I totally get the balance of catering to her vs wanting her to have friends.  Have you tried an open conversation about her standards being unreasonable? How much of a burden it puts on your for no good reason?

[pinball]

I didn’t see anyone suggest a cemetery to practice in…

You know why cemeteries have fences? Bc people are dying to get in!

And your DD will be dying to get out!

[marbel]

I'm stunned that anyone is surprised that many young people don't want to drive. I don't know where y'all live, of course, but in a lot of places, driving is scary. Road rage incidents are not uncommon. Aggressive drivers who tailgate, cut other drivers off, etc are very common - I probably encounter that on a daily basis. Around here, people will start hitting their horn immediately after a light changes to green, giving the people ahead of them no time to actually respond to the light change and accelerate into the intersection. Toll plazas onto the PA Turnpike are free-for-alls with no lanes and people veering around to get ahead of as many people as possible. Not too long ago, we were talking here about a young woman who was shot dead because she drove into the wrong driveway. So a simple driving mistake can cost a person their life now.

If I had to start learning how to drive today, I'd probably vow to move to the city so I could use public transit forever. That, or to Mayberry where people are nice and the pace is slow. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by marbel

[kathyl]

nm

Edited July 8, 2023 by kathyl

[rebcoola]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

I'm stunned that anyone is surprised that many young people don't want to drive. I don't know where y'all live, of course, but in a lot of places, driving is scary. Road rage incidents are not uncommon. Aggressive drivers who tailgate, cut other drivers off, etc are very common - I probably encounter that on a daily basis. Around here, people will start hitting their horn immediately after a light changes to green, giving the people ahead of them no time to actually respond to the light change and accelerate into the intersection. Toll plazas onto the PA Turnpike are free-for-alls with no lanes and people veering around to get ahead of as many people as possible. Not too long ago, we were talking here about a young woman who was shot dead because she drove into the wrong driveway. So a simple driving mistake can cost a person their life now.

If I had to start learning how to drive today, I'd probably vow to move to the city so I could use public transit forever. That, or to Mayberry where people are nice and the pace is slow. 

That sounds terrible people speed and tailgating is some what common.  Honking is not a done thing out here.  I wouldn't say that I agressive driving is the norm either. Scariest thing is older people who dont really get the round abouts.  Public transport is really not practical option. It would take 3 busses and still a good 20 minute walk for my kid to get to there school 6 miles away.

I cant imagine a young adult functioning outside of major metro area without driving.

 

[kristin0713]

3 hours ago, pinball said:

I didn’t see anyone suggest a cemetery to practice in…

You know why cemeteries have fences? Bc people are dying to get in!

And your DD will be dying to get out!

🙄

Yeah I guess it's ridiculous of me to want my kids to learn how to drive and become independent humans that are not relying on Mom and Dad for the rest of their lives. 

[pinball]

9 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

🙄

Yeah I guess it's ridiculous of me to want my kids to learn how to drive and become independent humans that are not relying on Mom and Dad for the rest of their lives. 

I guess it’s also ridiculous to recommend  a tried and true place to safely drive with not a lot of traffic (the cemetery) and then tell a Dad joke.

 

[pinball]

Maybe you prefer the variation:

why do they locked the cemetery gates at night? Bc people are dying to get in

[kristin0713]

40 minutes ago, pinball said:

I guess it’s also ridiculous to recommend  a tried and true place to safely drive with not a lot of traffic (the cemetery) and then tell a Dad joke.

 

If that's what you meant, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that I should not make her learn to drive because she will end up dead. 

[pinball]

10 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

If that's what you meant, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that I should not make her learn to drive because she will end up dead. 

Well, spoiler alert, we all end up dead. Eventually.

[Garga]

4 hours ago, marbel said:

I'm stunned that anyone is surprised that many young people don't want to drive. I don't know where y'all live, of course, but in a lot of places, driving is scary. Road rage incidents are not uncommon. Aggressive drivers who tailgate, cut other drivers off, etc are very common - I probably encounter that on a daily basis. Around here, people will start hitting their horn immediately after a light changes to green, giving the people ahead of them no time to actually respond to the light change and accelerate into the intersection. Toll plazas onto the PA Turnpike are free-for-alls with no lanes and people veering around to get ahead of as many people as possible. Not too long ago, we were talking here about a young woman who was shot dead because she drove into the wrong driveway. So a simple driving mistake can cost a person their life now.

If I had to start learning how to drive today, I'd probably vow to move to the city so I could use public transit forever. That, or to Mayberry where people are nice and the pace is slow. 

This is a good point for those living in that kind of area. The weird thing is that the phenomenon is happening in places like where I live—a dinky little town with very little traffic. 

But I can certainly see a young person not wanting to drive on beltways and in nutty traffic with people blowing their horns. That’s pretty intimidating.

[Gil]

I made Drivers Ed a Diploma Requirement in my home school so The Boys are required to learn to drive.

0) Join AAA or some other Towing/Roadside assistance program.
1) Identify 2-3 large parking lots you can access at ungodly hours.  (11pm - 6am)
2) Identify rural areas/tracts where there is lots of open space to use during earthly hours.
3) Make sure that your Living Will as well as Last Will and Testament are up to date and notarized in case your kids terrible driving does indeed get you permanent maimed or killed.
4) Check that your student doesn't need glasses for driving/night time driving.

I found that learning to drive is like learning to swim--several "get the basics" lessons, back to back to set the foundation. And by Back to Back, I mean every.single.day.

Then, enough "tweak some basics skills" lessons to keep them practicing and to help them to improve gradually and build stamina for driving. Then, follow that up with loads and loads of supervised practice.

They begin learning to drive by practicing for a few months in big empty parking lots--movie theater, Town Square, plaza, Stadium, etc. Virtually any large open parking lots that have great light before/after business hours and are accessible during non-business hours or night time.

Then they graduate to driving on Rural roads for a while. Once The Boys are more comfortable navigating parking lots and back-roads. They start driving in quiet neighborhoods during slow times.

Once they are comfortable in those situations, they drive to and from our regular errand locations during non-peak hours at night. So, our local BigMart, or Gas Station so that they get comfortable with the navigation to/from those places where they're going to need to be able to drive first.

Once they can drive reasonably in those three scenarios, then I start having them drive on errand-runs during the day but we go during slow-hours.

After a few months of only driving during "controlled" conditions, I start having them drive during "normal" conditions.

It can definitely be a slow-and-steady type thing for some teenagers.

[KSera]

7 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

Another thing that makes it very frustrating with her is that she will not drive with any friends. She thinks that teens are not safe drivers and just absolutely will NOT drive with a friend.

In my kids’ driver’s ed classes, there was a major emphasis on the death statistics for teen drivers and showing videos of horrible crashes and their aftermath. It freaked out every one of my kids. Does your state have laws about when teens can drive other teens? In our state, and I thought most others, they are not allowed to do so initially and then the longer they’ve had their license, they gradually have added privileges, including driving friends. Honestly, given the stats, I’m not keen on my kids being driven by another new driver anyway. 
 

I think different kids just take different lengths of time to gain confidence. It’s one of my least favorite parenting tasks as well, though. If there’s any kind of ADHD or other neurodivergence in the mix with her, I’d just especially encourage you to just be prepared that she’s just going to need to take it slowly and that’s going to be best in the long run for her safety and that of others on the road anyway. I found my slow processors really needed tons and tons of simple practice for the basic things to get automatic enough that they could add in doing more than one task at a time. Driving requires paying attention to so many different things at one time, it can really be a challenge for some brains.

[bookbard]

I did not learn to drive until my late 20s - I was completely reluctant and was forced to get my license by my employer. I hope my children delay getting their licenses too as I believe the teenage brain is simply not ready to learn such a complex task, nor to accurately understand the risks involved. I think it's ok to practice (yes, empty parking places and country back roads), but the idea that she's anxious about driving with other teens is 100% rational and I would applaud it. In the last week we have had a spate of horror crashes with a town losing 4 young people - horrific. There is a memorial in our town for a group of teens who crashed and I pass it every day. 

[lewelma]

5 hours ago, marbel said:

I'm stunned that anyone is surprised that many young people don't want to drive. I don't know where y'all live, of course, but in a lot of places, driving is scary. Road rage incidents are not uncommon. Aggressive drivers who tailgate, cut other drivers off, etc are very common - I probably encounter that on a daily basis. Around here, people will start hitting their horn immediately after a light changes to green, giving the people ahead of them no time to actually respond to the light change and accelerate into the intersection. Toll plazas onto the PA Turnpike are free-for-alls with no lanes and people veering around to get ahead of as many people as possible. Not too long ago, we were talking here about a young woman who was shot dead because she drove into the wrong driveway. So a simple driving mistake can cost a person their life now.

If I had to start learning how to drive today, I'd probably vow to move to the city so I could use public transit forever. That, or to Mayberry where people are nice and the pace is slow. 

This is my older boy.  He is 23 and still does not know how to drive, even though he lives in the USA.  He chooses to live in cities and take public transport and ubers when required. He has no interest in learning to drive. 

[bookbard]

1 minute ago, lewelma said:

He chooses to live in cities and take public transport and ubers when required. He has no interest in learning to drive. 

That is rational to me. I did the same when I was younger - chose where I lived based on public transport. 

[itsheresomewhere]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:06 PM, elegantlion said:

My son did not get his license until he was 20 or nearly 20, I can't remember right now. It was inconvienent at times but not devastating. He simply had no desire to learn. He's now 25 and is a careful and cautious driver. I'm frankly glad he waited. It made insurance cheaper and he was more mature and less anxious. 

I would consider what your above statement really means. How will waiting inconvience you or her. Will she feel less mature if she doesn't get her license now? I mean, honestly, there is no harm in waiting because nervous and inexperienced drivers can be a hazard. If they're not ready, they're not ready. 

I agree.  DS does not have a license yet and isn’t really wanting one. At 21, he is just starting to consider getting one.  Would it be more convenient if he could drive yes but being mature and ready to drive matter more.  She just sounds not ready and that is perfectly ok.  There are people who never get a drivers license, those who wait until they are in their 20s/30s/40s etc. Just give her some time to mature and get mentally ready to drive. 

[SKL]

I do agree that it's an odd phenomenon that many kids aren't eager to get their driver's license.  This would have been completely strange when I was a teen.  I can't think of anyone I knew who didn't want to drive (except some older women from the days when men did the driving).

I wonder if it's partly because kids can connect in other ways that didn't exist when we were young.

My eldest used to worry about driving before she got her permit, but she got over that through practice.  She got her license a few months ago, and the girls are loving the freedom it gives them.  Now I wish I could work that magic to get eldest over her fear/reluctance to cooking.

[Miss Tick]

8 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

So I drove her to the bowling alley and waited and hour. Then I drove her to mini golf and waited and waited because I didn't know how long they would be. It was another 2+ hours. I could have gone home but I didn't know, and I didn't want to add 50 minutes. I was so furious by the end of this

Hoo-yeah! That would make me bonkers!!

[SKL]

Just noticed that you said your daughter has OCD / Anxiety.  My eldest does as well.  She's the one who thought she would be too scared to drive.

Just keep practicing.  Push a little further each time.  For us, it was at least a couple weeks before we had any driving session longer than 5 or 10 minutes.  We would go around the block one way, and the next day we'd go around the same block the other way.  I wasn't in a hurry, because at the time, she was 15.5 and couldn't take the driver's test until 16 anyway.  I just planned for more driving time wherever we were going, and I'd let her take the wheel for whatever part she was ready for.

Remind her that if she gets into a difficult situation, she can always just pull over and stop.  (Well, usually.)

One day I had her driving on a rural freeway to my folks' house.  Unexpectedly, it went from nice and sunny to raining cats and dogs.  Since visibility was low, I didn't want her pulling over on the freeway, which could create a hazard for anyone behind us.  She pushed through because it was the safest option.  I do think that helped her to get over some of her fears.  Not that I would have planned it that way ....

[katilac]

On 6/2/2023 at 8:03 PM, kristin0713 said:

 She 17.5. I guess the frustrating thing is that I can't tell if she is really trying, because I know she is nervous and she would rather not drive. I just don't want her to be 20yo and still not have her license. 

One of my kids was 21 before she got her license, lol. 

It's a very tough thing to force, particularly when clinical anxiety is involved. I think you kind of have to assume she's trying her best. 

On 6/2/2023 at 10:52 PM, Scarlett said:

I don’t recall knowing anyone who was a reluctant driver like I see these days.   

I was, so perhaps it's genetic. 

I reluctantly got my license sometime after I turned 17, because I absolutely had to, and I can't say that having to drive daily reduced my fear all that quickly. I did it, but there were many anxiety attacks involved, which did nothing to improve my already-sketchy driving skills. 

It's just way harder for some people than others. 

12 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

Another thing that makes it very frustrating with her is that she will not drive with any friends. She thinks that teens are not safe drivers and just absolutely will NOT drive with a friend. So for example, two weeks ago she was invited to a party for a friend. They planned to meet and go bowling, then go to mini-golf and have ice cream. These locations are 25 minutes from our house, but the mini golf place is 5 min from the bowling place and it is a very low traffic, easy country road. I wanted her to get a ride with a friend just from bowling to mini golf so that I could drop her off and pick her up later and she would not. So I drove her to the bowling alley and waited and hour. Then I drove her to mini golf and waited and waited because I didn't know how long they would be. It was another 2+ hours. I could have gone home but I didn't know, and I didn't want to add 50 minutes. I was so furious by the end of this. 

I know someone will say that at some point she will need to decide whether to drive with a friend or not go, or whether to get her license and have more freedom or miss out on opportunities. The thing is that that kid has been through a lot socially and is finally starting to thrive. 

I have extensive experience in the realm of driving teens around when it doesn't always make sense to go home, lol. It sounds like you want to encourage her socially, so you have to find a way to make the driving and waiting more bearable, because doing it but getting mad is not a great solution. 

Emotionally, it might help to consider that she is right - teens actually are not, as a group, very safe drivers. She's likely seen articles about that, and the OCD might be making it very difficult for her to get that thought out of her head. Even though she probably objectively knows that her friend is a good driver, she feels panicky at the thought of riding with a teen driver. It's a pain, but no one wants to have intrusive thoughts, and no teen wants to tell their friends only mom can drive them. 

Practically, you need to find things to do other than just wait. I only waited at the exact location if I was in the mood to chill out and read. Otherwise, you leave and do whatever in the general area, and she texts you when she is ready to leave (like when they decide they aren't bowling another game, a quick text before turning in the bowling shoes). 

An area that has a bowling alley and a mini golf in close proximity is also very likely to have stores in close proximity where you can run errands, very likely a park you can walk in, maybe a library if you have paperwork or computer work to do. Throw an ice chest in the trunk and you can do your groceries. 

I'd probably stay pretty close to the bowling alley, both because I wouldn't expect it to take more than about an hour and because they were going somewhere after. Mini golf and ice cream is going to take longer, so I'd be fine going further - it's also the final destination, and a safe place for your daughter to wait if it takes you a bit to get there. 

If it was a night time event, dh and I would often go together and have a casual date night, or, once again, run errands. I never seem to run out of errands. 

I drove my teens lots and lots of places, but they knew that some waiting might be involved for the pick-up. If I calculated wrong and wound up with a cart full of groceries when they texted, then they had to wait for me to check out and drive back. They did get very good at gauging when events were starting to wind down, lol, but they were also waiting for me pretty often. 

And I'm not asking you to say how she is being treated, but I do want to say that meds are massively helpful to the people in my family with anxiety and/or OCD, 

Edited June 4, 2023 by katilac

[kristin0713]

Thank you so much everyone for your responses. My big take away is that I just need to be more patient and it will take longer than I originally thought.

FWIW, we live in a pretty rural area. The residential areas do have more traffic. But she can get anywhere she needs to (school, future job, stores) on easy roads. Going to the mall would require a merge onto a big highway - I have no intention of rushing that. But public transportation is not an option here, so it is just NOT an option for her to not get her license. I was originally hoping that she would be able to drive herself to school next year (easy back roads) but now I am just hoping she will be able to drive herself to college classes the following year. 

re: teens and driving. Most of her friends have had their license for over a year and had their permit at least 6 months before that. I don't advocate that she should get in the car with just anyone, but she is unwilling to consider and evaluate what would likely be a safe situation (five minutes with a responsible friend on an easy road) vs a dangerous and risky situation. There are restrictions for teen drivers in the beginning. I think until they are 18yo it is considered a junior license and they can only have one other passenger under 18 in the car. 

re: her OCD and anxiety. Yes, this is definitely a factor. She takes medicine. We have been through lots and lots of therapy. I have had to learn how to parent her differently and not let the OCD dictate my parenting decisions. It is not rational and allowing the OCD to dictate just feeds the cycle. 

Anyway, we will press on and keep practicing. Thank you 🙂 

[SKL]

About teens these days ... a lot of my kids' friends aren't licensed.  From what I gather, a lot of parents have made the decision to not incur the extra costs and risks of getting a license before age 18.  Which is fine, but then they expect my kid to always drive when they hang out.  And it gets difficult because my kids are not allowed to drive more than one friend at a time.  There is a lot of pressure to break this law.

I think parents of teens should think about reciprocity if this is happening a lot.  (Not saying anyone here is guilty.)

[Ottakee]

@kristin0713 can she take the bus to school?    That would save you a lot of driving.  Yes, it might take a lot more of her time but in a way that might motivate her to want to practice more.

[Dmmetler]

19 hours ago, KSera said:

In my kids’ driver’s ed classes, there was a major emphasis on the death statistics for teen drivers and showing videos of horrible crashes and their aftermath. It freaked out every one of my kids. Does your state have laws about when teens can drive other teens? In our state, and I thought most others, they are not allowed to do so initially and then the longer they’ve had their license, they gradually have added privileges, including driving friends. Honestly, given the stats, I’m not keen on my kids being driven by another new driver anyway. 
 

I think different kids just take different lengths of time to gain confidence. It’s one of my least favorite parenting tasks as well, though. If there’s any kind of ADHD or other neurodivergence in the mix with her, I’d just especially encourage you to just be prepared that she’s just going to need to take it slowly and that’s going to be best in the long run for her safety and that of others on the road anyway. I found my slow processors really needed tons and tons of simple practice for the basic things to get automatic enough that they could add in doing more than one task at a time. Driving requires paying attention to so many different things at one time, it can really be a challenge for some brains.

YES!!!

 

L commented that if we had done the classroom part of Driver's Ed first, it would have triggered so much anxiety that driving would have been impossible. By having it at the end, right before taking the road test, it wasn't quite as panic inducing. It was basically "100 ways you can die, cause someone else to die, or ruin your and someone else's life in a car". The manual covered the same stuff, but without the graphic videos and just wasn't as scary. (due to turning 15 at the very end of 2019, L had a learner's permit over a year before the class with driving instruction was an option, so the actual class was really only needed for insurance reasons). 

[Terabith]

I very much did not want to drive as a teenager.  Probably not coincidentally, I was diagnosed with clinical anxiety in college.  My parents really forced it, which I think was the right call, but man, it sucked.  

[kristin0713]

2 hours ago, Ottakee said:

@kristin0713 can she take the bus to school?    That would save you a lot of driving.  Yes, it might take a lot more of her time but in a way that might motivate her to want to practice more.

Yeah so, I wanted to make this the choice. Get your license or take the bus. But I really don't feel like I should put that on her right now. The bus would pick her up at 6:30am vs leaving our house at 7:15, and gets her back after 4 vs getting home just after 3. She also has a chronic pain condition and dysautonomia with a strong heat sensitivity and the bus is really uncomfortable. My big thing is, I want her to TRY. I want to see the motivation to get her license. I think we need to take it step by step and see what happens as the year progresses. 

 

[teachermom2834]

2 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

 My big thing is, I want her to TRY. I want to see the motivation to get her license. I think we need to take it step by step and see what happens as the year progresses. 

 

I think you are in a tough spot and have valid reasons for the choices you are making and I know you are trying to do what is best. I don’t think you are wrong to want her to try and to push her to try. I like what you say here about taking it step by step and seeing what happens. That is all you can do. You might be surprised - sometimes our kids make big leaps when we don’t expect it. Or maybe she won’t make big leaps. But either way just going step by step and seeing what happens is a good plan. She’ll either get over the hump and make some leaps and get there faster than it seems or it will take forever…but either way you are taking it step by step and you will get there eventually. 
 

Sometimes with my bad drivers I would lose my cool and we would pull back in the driveway and I’d be upset and the kid would be upset and I’d say something to the effect of “that was unpleasant for both of us and we have alot of work to do but you will learn to drive. We aren’t giving up. This ends with you driving. I don’t know when but it does.” Or something like that. Now it would have been better if I didn’t lose my cool and people weren’t upset but not driving was never really the solution to our issue. 
 

On that note, my 15 yo dd starts drivers Ed tomorrow. She is the first child I am paying for professional instruction for because I found the last two I got driving to be so unpleasant.