Relationships across cultures (forgive me for awkward wording)

[teachermom2834]

First of all, please grant me some grace for how clumsy all this is and give me the benefit of the doubt that I am not trying to be insensitive. It is very much the opposite. Also, if your blanket response is going to be that teen dating is bad and you don’t allow it, that is really going to be unhelpful and I would ask you to refrain from that if you would or start another thread to that effect.

My high school age dd (we are white) has become very close with a friend from school who is black. He is just the sweetest kid from the nicest family and is probably one of the most solid friends she has made at school this year. Well as you can see things develop with teens this looks to be coming to a head as phone calls increase in frequency and duration and other dating interests fall out of each of their lives.

So, dh and I have no issues with this kid and he’s probably the nicest we have had around our kids. However, I do feel like we are in a situation where we do not know what we don’t know as far as what the issues are culturally, for his family, if they were to date. Their school is 80% white so surely this is not a surprise for his parents that this scenario comes up. And I know that his parents like dd and think she is nice. But I also feel like there are potentially some concerns there from their end on the cultural side that I’m just too ignorant to even know what they are exactly. From getting to know the family a bit, it is not a family that has had a lot of mixed marriages, etc. and I know they attend a black church and participate in some things where they are with their black community so I know that is something they hold tightly. 
 

My dd, unfortunately, has been so unintentionally sheltered it hasn’t occurred to her anyone might ever have a thought about any of it. 
 

Can anyone, without calling me names or questioning my intentions, fill me in at all on where his family might be on this or what, in particular, we might need to be sensitive to in this situation. It’s easy enough for us to just say we don’t care. Because we don’t. But I feel like that is naive and that surely there are still some things to possibly be aware of and sensitive to. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by teachermom2834

[Lecka]

I really think you are borrowing trouble here.  

I think on your side, you have some responsibilities and duties as to how your family and relatives will act.

 

And then they have the same on their side.  
 

There hasn’t been a problem yet.  
 

I think there is a lot of grace given to teenagers.  

I am cringing to even say this, but there are racist things I haven’t known were racist before I was an adult.  I was not aware of things like stereotyping foods that can be insulting to people.  There is a thing that black people like fried chicken, watermelon, and grape soda, and dislike mayonnaise.  I would just totally stay away from that in every way, shape, and form. 

That is my honest thought.

 

You can’t know about them, anymore than they can know about you, is the bottom line.  
 

But there are a lot of reasons given to assume there won’t be a problem and none to assume there will be a problem.  

[marbel]

I would just treat the family as any other family of your kids' friends and go from there. Don't assume anything about them. I mean, and this is where I get awkward and will possibly offend someone (I hope not), but... there may not be many cultural differences at all. I don't mean that in a "colorblind" sort of way, but... is there one "Black culture" in the US? I don't believe so. I mean, my coworker from Jamaica may have a different family culture than my Philly native neighbor, and different still from the family from Nigeria that I know from church. But they are all nice people and we have more things in common than differences. So, you just have to get to know them. 

Like Lecka said, I would be aware of stereotypes but don't assume, for example, they they don't like foods like fried chicken, etc. So, I wouldn't make something like that for dinner the first time I had them over - if you even plan to have them over at some point. 

I have mostly lived in places where cross-cultural/racial relationships and marriages are unremarkable; they happen all the time. But, you and your daughter are a long way off from that! They are young and I would counsel my kid about the relationship the same way I would any budding teen romance. 

💗

[lauraw4321]

I’ll be a voice of slightly different advice. I would not say anything to your DD about this, but I would be thinking about the fact that many Black folks have issues with Black men dating white women. I’m in the south, and due to historical racism, there’s a shortage of Black men for Black women to date/marry. There is some level of animosity against a white woman taking away an eligible man. I think this is probably too nuanced to discuss / alert a young teen to, but it would be in the back of my mind.  

[Murphy101]

19 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I’ll be a voice of slightly different advice. I would not say anything to your DD about this, but I would be thinking about the fact that many Black folks have issues with Black men dating white women. I’m in the south, and due to historical racism, there’s a shortage of Black men for Black women to date/marry. There is some level of animosity against a white woman taking away an eligible man. I think this is probably too nuanced to discuss / alert a young teen to, but it would be in the back of my mind.  

This is what I’ve seen a bit of here too. 

However I’m also in the camp of borrowing worry. I’d say nothing to my daughter about this. How they handle dating is up to them within the confines of each of the family’s general dating rules and ours wouldn’t be going to change regardless of who our kid dates.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Murphy101

[teachermom2834]

17 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I’ll be a voice of slightly different advice. I would not say anything to your DD about this, but I would be thinking about the fact that many Black folks have issues with Black men dating white women. I’m in the south, and due to historical racism, there’s a shortage of Black men for Black women to date/marry. There is some level of animosity against a white woman taking away an eligible man. I think this is probably too nuanced to discuss / alert a young teen to, but it would be in the back of my mind.  

Right. This is in my mind though I cannot imagine expressing it to my dd. But I also am not so naive as to think there is zero issue for anyone anywhere here. 

[Lecka]

I have also seen it a little, but I have seen it more where it would be the man getting comments.  I think if there’s someone that the man thinks would say something, why would he take her around those people?

 

I haven’t heard of it in a way where I would be worried about it from the information in the op.  
 

I would be more worried about animosity from white people who don’t approve of interracial dating, by far.  And even for that I don’t think I would worry beyond being aware it could happen.  But I don’t think I would be actively worried about it.  
 

 

[teachermom2834]

As far as disapproval from white people…eh…those people can suck it. Not really worried about that and that side I’m certainly aware of and would be prepared for. I’m more curious about the issues that I’m honestly unaware of because I’m simply uninformed. 
 

And I’m not jumping to long term or marriage type issues as I don’t really think that way with teens (though I know some teens stay together). I mostly don’t want to step in it with people I like and respect if I can avoid it. 

[Lecka]

I guess I think — I think it’s possible the potential boyfriend might get some comments.  But I don’t think it would go on to your daughter.  I don’t think she’s going to have a problem from other kids at school.  
 

If you think she would have a problem from other kids at school, I think that would be a real concern.  
 

But if it’s like — maybe the potential boyfriend gets some comment or decides not to invite her to something where there is someone who will have animosity, I think that’s his problem.  
 

If this something where you know other couples have had problems at school or that there are incidents of some kind, then that is something to worry about.

 

Locally I have not heard of things like that.  I have heard of things like — interracial couples having rude service in a restaraunt.  
 

If kids were going to be mean to your daughter at school, I think she would already be aware, to be honest.  If it hasn’t  come up yet at school I don’t think it will.  

[maize]

I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to have this on your mind, both in the general sense of an intercultural relationship and specific concerns around racial tensions in the US. I don't know that there's anything to do other than encourage open communication and continue to foster opportunities for both families to get to know each other as families.

Several of my siblings have married interculturally and interracially,  and it does add an extra layer of complexity. That's neither good nor bad in and of itself, just reality.  The one guy my oldest dd dated semi seriously in high school was black; I didn't really think much about how his family might view the relationship.  We're in a state with a black population of less than 2%, so it seems likely that most people he might date would not be black.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by maize

[KungFuPanda]

Just talk to your daughter and listen.  Even though you don't know this family, you know them better than any of us so we can't really give you advice about them.  The kids will have the inevitable conversations as they learn more about one another and spend time with each other's families.  Your daughter may or may not share this with you, but she will learn about people outside of her family by spending time with people outside of her family. She'll figure it out and there's no real way for you to do any preliminary homework for her. Just keep talking and watch her grow.

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 hour ago, lauraw4321 said:

I’ll be a voice of slightly different advice. I would not say anything to your DD about this, but I would be thinking about the fact that many Black folks have issues with Black men dating white women. I’m in the south, and due to historical racism, there’s a shortage of Black men for Black women to date/marry. There is some level of animosity against a white woman taking away an eligible man. I think this is probably too nuanced to discuss / alert a young teen to, but it would be in the back of my mind.  

 

I’m in the south too and black women are more understanding of two people just falling in love regardless of color. What they tend to be bothered by more is white women who will only date black men.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I lean toward the side of not borrowing trouble. At the same time, what you can encourage your daughter to do is be a learner and not think she understands racial issues. It’s better to listen and learn and not say too much on any topics she doesn’t understand and she needs to assume she doesn’t know much. 
 

As far as the stereotypes. I live in the south, have had plenty of black friends, and was student body president of a public high school that was well over half black. 
I’d never heard these stereotypes (like grape kool-aid and fried chicken) before social media. Granted, I was raised in a very non racist family who would’ve never used them but I never heard other people use them either. 
 

I’ve always hated racism and was pretty careful to the opposite extreme which can also be offensive or hurtful in a different way. I used to avoid saying anything about someone’s skin color until a friend called me out on it. She said “call me black” and made me until I was comfortable with it lol. 
 

ETA: what that means is she has to get comfortable with the fact that he is black and not just ignore it. “Skin color doesn’t matter” isn’t true and only white people can even live in that make believe world. 
For example, some friends of ours are an interracial couple and they were pulled over one day by an officer to make sure she was safe and hadn’t been kidnapped. Crazy, not right, but reality. This was like 15 years ago but still, too close to an age when people should know better. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[teachermom2834]

@Ann.without.an.e I think you hit the tone of what I am getting at. Like just pretending we don’t notice he is black and that there is zero issue is naive to the point of being offensive. But I totally agree with not borrowing trouble and I tend to think @KungFuPanda is right on as well. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I married into a different culture/race. The boy likes your daughter for who she is. His family likes your daughter for who she is. Just be kind. Be friendly. Don’t make assumptions especially if something is different. It’s ok to ask some questions if you are truly wanting to learn and understand. But don’t assume that your family culture or your broader culture is “the right way “ to do things. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

9 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

@Ann.without.an.e I think you hit the tone of what I am getting at. Like just pretending we don’t notice he is black and that there is zero issue is naive to the point of being offensive. But I totally agree with not borrowing trouble and I tend to think @KungFuPanda is right on as well. 

I think it’ll be ok. Just remember, it is more hurtful to dismiss someone or their experience than to misunderstand them. Our kids will be the most prepared to go into this world if we teach them to be learners and ask questions and not dismiss people. That is useful regardless what happens with this boy. 
 

My oldest dd was homeschooled and didn’t have that many life experiences to draw from. She stepped into a top ten university on a full ride scholarship and the recipients were a tight group. Out of 30 recipients only 2 were white. She did very well, made tons of friends, and wasn’t offensive or hurtful and not because she had so much experience navigating various cultures but because she was a learner who loved people and asked questions and didn’t dismiss or assume. That is key. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[gardenmom5]

Have you met his family?   It might be time to in a VERY *casual*! way.   even if they don't date, they're friends and it sounds like a friendship that could last.   

eta: I'm saying "keep it casual" to not put unneeded pressure on the meeting.

Edited May 21, 2023 by gardenmom5

[ArteHaus]

After nearly two decades in an interracial relationship (we also met each other while briefly living the South), I would say that you probably don’t have much to worry about on his side of the family. I have, generally, been very welcomed by black folks. However, my husband and I always joke that the ones who have issue with us are white men and black women (not always true, of course….). 

When my husband and I started dating we faced extreme hatred from the “white” side of the family. I mean extreme (as in I was assaulted by a “relative”). It was so terrible that I ended up (at 19) living with various members of his family, while we tried to move to another state (we were really young). “White” people in general were super hateful. Now, I think that had to with our age back then, too. We weren’t the stereotypical interracial couple that is portrayed to people, we were quite the handsome couple and studious and…just not what people wanted to see, and that is a complexity that is hard to describe.

We are still married many years later, and I would say that the thing that people were able to bother us with was employment. That kind of discrimination is prevalent. However, for the last 10-15 years our income is passive and neither one of us have a typical job, so we don’t have to deal with it anymore.

I would say that as long as both families are supportive, they would be fine. That is all a young couple needs at the end of the day…the rest of the world can @#$%. 

I would add too, that my family drastically changed after a few years of marriage and apologized. It all works out in the end:)

I think that interracial couples are so beautiful because I know what they go through. I will say, and this may sound strange, but we have felt more comfortable in the South, when visiting family because black and white folks have a certain understanding about one another. We have faced prejudice in large cities, because I think the dynamic between white and black is different.

Last, between Southerners, culturally, I think b and w folks have a lot in common, some things not. That is just my experience. My husband and I get things about black and white people that most don’t because we have a Southern experience. Some of our “culture” is the same, but our history is a *bit* different.

There are many nuances and complexities, but I wouldn’t change a thing about this part of my life. Best decision I ever made, even after been disowned by many loved ones, and left to fend for myself. It all worked out in the end. Again, supporting these young people (no matter what his or anyone’s family thinks) is what will make the difference. 

[J-rap]

I think it's great that you're sensitive to this, but I wouldn't worry too much about it now.  I think for now, just treating each other with kindness and acceptance is all one can do.  If it develops into something more serious/longer term, conversations will naturally come up.  All of my children who are married have spouses from different cultures.  Yes, it does add an extra layer to maneuver in their relationships sometimes, but many things create extra layers.  Very infrequently, strangers have said things that are really disturbing, like the one time a businessman pulled my SIL aside and and tried to buy drugs off of him -- assuming he sold drugs because of his race.  Thankfully things like that don't happen very often though.  

I do think about where they will end up living when they're ready to really settle down, maybe raise a family, etc.  For example, some smaller, homogenous towns might not feel as comfortable for them.  I myself have questions sometimes, even little things such as how to wish someone "Happy Holiday" for a holiday that our family doesn't celebrate.  But those are things that when led with a sincere kindness and eagerness to learn, generally work out fine.

Most importantly, all the families involved very much support the couples and are there for them no matter what.  And I'll add that once the relationship is serious, we're all pretty open with our questions, and there's generally a lot of humor in these conversations as well -- which can help.

Edited May 21, 2023 by J-rap

[SKL]

Because the family already knows and likes your daughter, I wouldn't worry too much about what may happen next on their side.  I would assume that if they have any serious issues with interracial marriage, they would discuss it with their son and not bring your daughter into it.

My kid and an AA boy from summer camp had a little crush when they were tweens.  I thought it was cute; I don't care about the color of who they like or date (not that they were dating as tweens).  The boy's mom noticed their texts and called me to make sure I was OK with their interactions.  She also wanted to send me a photo of her son.  (I told her I'd already seen some videos my kids had taken of him).  Race was not mentioned, but it is possible if not likely that the mom was checking to make sure I didn't have an issue.

But the surprising thing was the reaction of another person of color who is a friend of ours.  She went off on a whole "you don't know whether his family is [fill in negative stereotypes]."  I am also fairly sure that I'd have to prepare some of my extended family before bringing an AA SO to a family event (even though the majority of people I've dated have been nonwhite, and even though my kids are nonwhite).  Just being realistic ... and I think my kids probably know this already without me saying it.

[YaelAldrich]

I'll say as the daughter of an interracial family and interracially married as well, your daughter (and possibly by extension your family) might learn how the world sees Black people and Blackness. I know I specifically had to clue my husband into societal and institutional racism as we dated.  White people can think of themselves as not racist and allies, but when they get understanding from a Black person, it's kind of mind blowing what it's like to be a Black person day in and day out.  There are many interracial couples on social media where it is clear the White (woman, usually) doesn't get it and it really upsets me.  I don't know if it is Black person didn't want to teach their SO anything or that the White person didn't want to listen to their SO.

[Ann.without.an.e]

3 hours ago, ArteHaus said:

 

I think that interracial couples are so beautiful because I know what they go through. I will say, and this may sound strange, but we have felt more comfortable in the South, when visiting family because black and white folks have a certain understanding about one another. We have faced prejudice in large cities, because I think the dynamic between white and black is different.

 

 

People who don’t live in the south don’t understand the dynamic. They imagine the old south they read about in books of times far far in the past. I’ve lived in a total of 6 states, spanning all the way to the PNW and the south is the least racist place I’ve lived. Don’t get me wrong, racists can be found anywhere but in general there are simply more blacks here. Something like 59% of all black people live in this one region. That means 41% are spread across the entire rest of the US. That means a much much higher concentration here. We live together, work together, and go to school together daily. It is harder to be prejudice against people you know personally and do life with. 
 

When I lived in the Midwest, it was more white. I knew several people there who were scared to death of black men. I don’t see that here. In fact, if I feel threatened or need help I’m far more apt to reach out to a black man than anyone else. I’ve done this a few times in my life actually. My in laws are from the PNW and are by far the most racist people I’ve ever met. 
 

Also one of Dd’s best college friends spent many many holidays with us while in college (a gay black man). He was always surprised at how different it is here. He’s from a large city up north and he says the racism is much stronger there and he didn’t expect that. Spending so much time with us made him realize his own wrong stereotypes about white people and we had some amazing convos. 
As an aside, he ended up at Oxford as a Rhodes scholar and he was just admitted to Yale law and I’m so very very proud of him and all that he has accomplished. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[YaelAldrich]

oh, don't say you don't care about color. Black people (should) love their color and culture and everything that goes with that.  Colorblindness (no the medical kind!) is not anti-racist.  It's more like a White person saying, "I don't WANT to deal with color."  Black people HAVE to deal with color every moment they are in greater society.  

[chiguirre]

Dd's ex-fiance is Black. They broke up when dd was stationed on the other side of the Earth and he cheated on her. Tale as old as time...

I honestly expected more drama than we got. That's probably due to @YaelAldrich's observation that sometimes the Black partner just doesn't want to talk about it. In Cheatie McCheaterpants' case, his mom is married to a White guy and his brother is biracial so I think maybe he was just used to being in a family where everyone isn't from the same background. Or maybe the kids these days are more used to being around people who aren't from the same background and it just doesn't matter to them as much as it does to the more geriatric set. Both dd and CMcC are in the Navy in similar rates and that culture probably overshadows the broader American landscape. Plus Autism Land brings its own cultural norms and walking around being stared at all.the.time because GW (6'1" dude) is carrying his large plush brontosaurus can make other issues seem less urgent. It was much more important that dd prepare CMcC to know what to expect with GW before he met us than any other cultural thing that might have come up.

In any case, @Lecka's right, don't borrow trouble.

Edited May 21, 2023 by chiguirre

[Frances]

1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

Or maybe the kids these days are more used to being around people who aren't from the same background and it just doesn't matter to them as much as it does to the more geriatric set.

In any case, @Lecka's right, don't borrow trouble.

In general, I think it is very true that young people today are growing up with much more diversity and dating and having close friends across race, religion, socioeconomic status, etc. is quite common. It certainly is true of all of the young adults I know, including my son, my nieces, and their close friends.

[ArteHaus]

6 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

People who don’t live in the south don’t understand the dynamic. They imagine the old south they read about in books of times far far in the past. I’ve lived in a total of 6 states, spanning all the way to the PNW and the south is the least racist place I’ve lived. Don’t get me wrong, racists can be found anywhere but in general there are simply more blacks here. Something like 59% of all black people live in this one region. That means 41% are spread across the entire rest of the US. That means a much much higher concentration here. We live together, work together, and go to school together daily. It is harder to be prejudice against people you know personally and do life with. 

That is so true isn’t it? After all the history in the South, it is so uncanny! There are certainly still many issues, but yes…only Southerners can understand that dynamic. It wasn’t until we were older that my DH and I could really appreciate that about the South. Once we moved away, we said we would never step foot into a Southern state again, but of course, family is still there. After visiting again, this was something that we have observed and talked about a lot. Although, systematically, the South is still difficult to navigate (economics are still uneven), but I would say the North is too. However, common folk to common folk, the vibe can be really good between the two races.

That is funny you mention the PNW. We very seriously thought about moving to Seattle (really interested in Bainbridge Island, but I think it was really $$$ when we were looking) years ago. After much research, we determined that perhaps it was too homogenous, which is a breeding ground for racism. There is just no history there between white/black, I guess, to create a camaraderie, so we decided against it.

It is refreshing to have another Southerner (I guess I will always be a Southerner no matter where I am:) acknowledge that dynamic, though:)

 

 

[ArteHaus]

12 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

Right. This is in my mind though I cannot imagine expressing it to my dd. But I also am not so naive as to think there is zero issue for anyone anywhere here. 

I would express this to her. However, I have heard very similar things from white men. I have also heard black women express what another poster has already mentioned, essentially, that you love who you love regardless of color. Really, what other people say (or think) is of no consequence. You learn to develop thick skin really fast, which isn’t overall a bad thing:)

 

 

[YaelAldrich]

I grew up in the foothills of NC from the 1980s and I agree with you both.  My Black father and Korean mother had one neighbor who wouldn't interact to them. But the others,  all good ol' boys and gals, saw the humanity in my parents  even though they were of different races. They were certainly the only mixed race couple in the town,  probably the whole county; there was only black family group in our county and they certainly didn't go across race lines.   

But the old neighbor lady who helped us and we helped did sit me down in my teens and told me straight out that miscegenation was completely wrong.  My parents didn't get an out.  But she respected them nonetheless. 

But I do agree that there is an easy relationship between Blacks and Whites in the South that doesn't exist elsewhere in the US.

It was dead funny to watch my father and a redneck easily chit chat for an hour in front of our house about everything and nothing on Friday.   I couldn't see it happening where I currently live,  Boston. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by YaelAldrich

[Ann.without.an.e]

10 hours ago, ArteHaus said:

 

That is funny you mention the PNW. We very seriously thought about moving to Seattle (really interested in Bainbridge Island, but I think it was really $$$ when we were looking) years ago. After much research, we determined that perhaps it was too homogenous, which is a breeding ground for racism. There is just no history there between white/black, I guess, to create a camaraderie, so we decided against it.

It is refreshing to have another Southerner (I guess I will always be a Southerner no matter where I am:) acknowledge that dynamic, though:)

 

 

 

 

It is very expensive to live there, like crazy expensive. That is one of the many reasons we came back to where I grew up. Also the traffic is awful, like you will sit in traffic for hours. There are far more Asians there than here but not many blacks at all. Probably more in Seattle than outside of it though. For example, Charlotte is close to 40% black but Seattle is 5-6% and falling annually. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e