How would you handle this situation with a neighborhood kid?

[Ausmumof3]

21 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

 I though  Slug guns were just for hitting cans, close targets and maybe a bird. 

 I just looked it up. What I am thinking might be called an air rifle.  Like I said I have no knowelage about gun types at all

 BB guns, jell guns and air rifles are banned in Australia. I guess because people thought they were toys

Gel blasters aren’t banned but do need a license, in part because sometimes they looked enough like the real thing that people were using them in hold-ups.

[katilac]

3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

 I though  Slug guns were just for hitting cans, close targets and maybe a bird. 

 I just looked it up. What I am thinking might be called an air rifle.  Like I said I have no knowelage about gun types at all

 BB guns, jell guns and air rifles are banned in Australia. I guess because people thought they were toys.

A bb gun is what most people use for plinking cans and such; some slug guns can take down pretty good-sized game. I think America and Australia use the same names. 

BB gun and  pellet guns are both specific types of air rifles. Air rifle only refers to using compressed air to fire it; it doesn't mean it's not powerful. Slug guns can refer to an air rifle that shoots slugs, but it can also refer to shotgun that shoots slugs. 

BB guns can shoot BBs but not pellets. Pellet guns can shoot pellets and sometimes BBs, and are generally more powerful. Both can sometimes shoot slugs but they aren't meant to and it likely won't work well.  

There are different kinds of BBs you can load with, and that's why a BB gun can shoot a person without penetrating skin but also kill a squirrel or rabbit (if you're very good). 

Pellet guns are more dangerous not only bc they are more powerful, but bc pellets are a lot bigger than BBs and shaped differently. They don't kill much bigger game than BB guns, but you are much more likely to succeed (easier to aim). 

Air rifle slug guns can take down much bigger game; beavers, turkeys, geese, coyotes, even deer and hogs. 

That's a rough take, but all three types can have different velocities and ammunition, and very different capabilities. 

If a jell gun is the same as an American gel gun, they are like paintball guns but you just get wet, no color. Both are basically toys, in the sense that they are only meant for playing games (and you have to play in specific places for it to be legal). A paintball gun can definitely look like a real gun if you aren't familiar with firearms. 

They're actually not banned in Queensland or South Australia, but I don't know what that means in terms of population or anything. (I saw lots of Australian sites selling all three when I tried to figure out if a jell gun was a gel gun.)

[katilac]

On 6/19/2022 at 11:20 PM, Tanaqui said:

SKL, do you think that your experience as a child was... normal? Because I gotta say, it does sound like you were faced with a lot of violence *using weapons* as a child, just from these few posts.

I don't think that being physically bullied is a particularly rare experience even now, much less back in SKL's day (which is also back in my day). 

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I’m sorry, but “shooting each other with BB guns on the regular” is both bizarre and troubling. 

There is nothing normal or acceptable about shooting anyone with a BB gun, and if your parents never taught you that you never point a gun at another person, they really messed up. 

Of course it's a terrible idea, but I think you're going a bit far for a parenting-in-the-past story. Kids do things parents don't approve of, and lots of people did let their kids use their BB guns on their own. 

Riding in the back of a pick-up truck has way more potential for serious injury, and plenty of kids used to do that on the regular as well. There has been a sea change in the way American parents view risk. 

[gardenmom5]

5 hours ago, weaver_67579 said:

Most shots from a BB gun would not need stitches or an ER visit.  They are not terribly powerful. You may be confusing them with a pellet gun. They are not the same thing. As kids-we shot each other with BB guns on the regular. 

I dug the BBs out of the dog's leg.  I had them.   They made holes in a 2nd story window - they were BBs, NOT pellets.

52 minutes ago, katilac said:

pellets are a lot bigger than BBs and shaped differently.   

This

[Catwoman]

21 minutes ago, katilac said:

I don't think that being physically bullied is a particularly rare experience even now, much less back in SKL's day (which is also back in my day). 

Of course it's a terrible idea, but I think you're going a bit far for a parenting-in-the-past story. Kids do things parents don't approve of, and lots of people did let their kids use their BB guns on their own. 

Riding in the back of a pick-up truck has way more potential for serious injury, and plenty of kids used to do that on the regular as well. There has been a sea change in the way American parents view risk. 

I’m sorry, but when I was growing up in the ‘60s and ‘70s, I don’t recall ever hearing about any of the kids shooting each other with BB guns. That’s just ridiculous. And if they had done something like that, their parents would have taken the guns away from them. Because you don’t point a gun at another person. You just don’t. That is basic gun safety, and it applies to BB guns as much as it applies to all other firearms. 

[SKL]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I’m sorry, but when I was growing up in the ‘60s and ‘70s, I don’t recall ever hearing about any of the kids shooting each other with BB guns. That’s just ridiculous. And if they had done something like that, their parents would have taken the guns away from them. Because you don’t point a gun at another person. You just don’t. That is basic gun safety, and it applies to BB guns as much as it applies to all other firearms. 

Yeah, my dad certainly taught us that, and in fact, I don't think we owned a bb gun.  (Or possibly my older brothers had one taken away before I was cognizant of it.)  My dad sensed that in a houseful of kids, someone would probably get a dumb idea.

But we lived in a neighborhood and other people had bb guns.  And we did stupid things, as kids do.  My folks did not know about the bb gun shooting.  It was done when they were not present.

Kids do things they aren't supposed to do.  Especially when they congregate in groups.

Edited June 22, 2022 by SKL

[katilac]

47 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I’m sorry, but when I was growing up in the ‘60s and ‘70s, I don’t recall ever hearing about any of the kids shooting each other with BB guns. That’s just ridiculous. And if they had done something like that, their parents would have taken the guns away from them. Because you don’t point a gun at another person. You just don’t. That is basic gun safety, and it applies to BB guns as much as it applies to all other firearms. 

Again, kids don't always listen to their parents, and parents don't always know what their kids have done. It's a rare person who can say they never did anything both stupid and dangerous that their parents never knew about.

 

 

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, katilac said:

Again, kids don't always listen to their parents, and parents don't always know what their kids have done. It's a rare person who can say they never did anything both stupid and dangerous that their parents never knew about.

 

 

That’s fine. I’m just saying I never knew any kids who shot at each other with BB guns. It’s kind of horrifying to think it might be a common thing. 

[Melissa in Australia]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

A bb gun is what most people use for plinking cans and such; some slug guns can take down pretty good-sized game. I think America and Australia use the same names. 

BB gun and  pellet guns are both specific types of air rifles. Air rifle only refers to using compressed air to fire it; it doesn't mean it's not powerful. Slug guns can refer to an air rifle that shoots slugs, but it can also refer to shotgun that shoots slugs. 

BB guns can shoot BBs but not pellets. Pellet guns can shoot pellets and sometimes BBs, and are generally more powerful. Both can sometimes shoot slugs but they aren't meant to and it likely won't work well.  

There are different kinds of BBs you can load with, and that's why a BB gun can shoot a person without penetrating skin but also kill a squirrel or rabbit (if you're very good). 

Pellet guns are more dangerous not only bc they are more powerful, but bc pellets are a lot bigger than BBs and shaped differently. They don't kill much bigger game than BB guns, but you are much more likely to succeed (easier to aim). 

Air rifle slug guns can take down much bigger game; beavers, turkeys, geese, coyotes, even deer and hogs. 

That's a rough take, but all three types can have different velocities and ammunition, and very different capabilities. 

If a jell gun is the same as an American gel gun, they are like paintball guns but you just get wet, no color. Both are basically toys, in the sense that they are only meant for playing games (and you have to play in specific places for it to be legal). A paintball gun can definitely look like a real gun if you aren't familiar with firearms. 

They're actually not banned in Queensland or South Australia, but I don't know what that means in terms of population or anything. (I saw lots of Australian sites selling all three when I tried to figure out if a jell gun was a gel gun.)

Thank you very much for the explination 

Much appreciated 

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I’m sorry, but when I was growing up in the ‘60s and ‘70s, I don’t recall ever hearing about any of the kids shooting each other with BB guns. That’s just ridiculous. And if they had done something like that, their parents would have taken the guns away from them. Because you don’t point a gun at another person. You just don’t. That is basic gun safety, and it applies to BB guns as much as it applies to all other firearms. 

Same here/  And I grew up middle income then much lower bracket after my father died when I had just turned 13. But we did live in VA suburbs of DC and I don't think it was so common there.  I do know a few guys who went hunting when I was in high school but they went out to the country to do that.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Yeah, my dad certainly taught us that, and in fact, I don't think we owned a bb gun.  (Or possibly my older brothers had one taken away before I was cognizant of it.)  My dad sensed that in a houseful of kids, someone would probably get a dumb idea.

But we lived in a neighborhood and other people had bb guns.  And we did stupid things, as kids do.  My folks did not know about the bb gun shooting.  It was done when they were not present.

Kids do things they aren't supposed to do.  Especially when they congregate in groups.

The point in this thread is not kids who do foolish things in play.  The point is that this boy is doing these things as a bully and in anger.  That is a different motivation than just the foolishness of youth.  The bb gun is no longer a play thing in this scenario but is a weapon (no matter how dangerous you might think that it is).

[Catwoman]

Just now, TravelingChris said:

Same here/  And I grew up middle income then much lower bracket after my father died when I had just turned 13. But we did live in VA suburbs of DC and I don't think it was so common there.  I do know a few guys who went hunting when I was in high school but they went out to the country to do that.  

Yes, maybe it’s a regional thing or something?

I still find it so odd that kids would be shooting each other with BB guns, and that anyone would be excusing it as normal kid behavior. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to shoot their friends with BB guns. The entire concept is foreign to me. And gun safety is something we were taught since we were little kids, so it’s scary to think that kids would be so quick to disregard simple, common sense safety rules. 

I think @katilac mentioned it being common for teens to ride in the back of pickup trucks, too, and that was something we never saw, either. Pickup trucks weren’t common teen vehicles where I lived, anyway. When someone drove a pickup, it was generally for work. 

[TechWife]

On 6/17/2022 at 11:31 AM, SKL said:

I would not report this particular incident.  I would wait to see whether the kid learned anything from being in a fistfight with your son.  (Like it or not, that is how a lot of learning has taken place historically.)

If there is another incident involving things like rocks / BBs, I might report that one.

As for your son, I'd ask him why he didn't tell you about the rocks and BBs.  I believe he did the right thing in hitting back, so I would let him know that if there was any doubt.  I would ask him to tell me sooner rather than later if the other kid starts using dangerous weapons again.

Another thing ... if the BB gun comes out again, can one of the kids take it away from the kid?  When the parent comes and demands it back, that might be a good time to explain that the kid hasn't learned that he can't shoot it at people.

It isn’t OP’s responsibility to figure out whether the boy has learned anything. Her responsibility lies with her son.

This is not the first violent incident with this child. No one should have to wait to report an assault. 

It is not the responsibility of children to take weapons out of the hands of other children in an attempt to prompt that child’s parents to get involved. If OP wants to have that conversation with the parents she can do that now or at any other time. It is an adults job to protect the children. Children shouldn’t have to learn how to or be expected to disarm their friends, and that is what you are recommending. Parents teach kids to attempt to disarm someone when they live in a war zone. Suburban USA is not a war zone and there are actions that OP can and should take to protect her own children and in doing so their friends will be safer, too. Talking to the other boy’s parents, reporting to CPS are all actions are all actions that are free of cost, don’t require a large amount of time 

I wasn’t raised around guns and don’t know much about weapons, but I do know that a BB gun is a weapon, not a toy, and it should not be out when neighbors are playing with each other. Everyone I knew that had a BB gun only used it for planned target practice (shooting at targets like cans or actual paper targets) and it was not used for play or to shoot at people or animals. Kids that got together for target practice did it only w/parent permission and oversight. The parents kept their BB’s with their bullets if they had other guns &’if they didn’t, they found another way to secure them. Kids had to ask their parents for the BBS,’meaning parents were immediately aware.!BB guns and BBs were never out for random play. 

OP should move heaven & earth to protect her child and others. it will be uncomfortable. It might be scary. But it is the right thing to do. 

[Catwoman]

19 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The point in this thread is not kids who do foolish things in play.  The point is that this boy is doing these things as a bully and in anger.  That is a different motivation than just the foolishness of youth.  The bb gun is no longer a play thing in this scenario but is a weapon (no matter how dangerous you might think that it is).

Yes, but I guess some people don’t believe a BB gun is a weapon. They are acting like it’s a kids’ toy and that it’s common for kids to shoot each other with them. 

I asked my ds22 if he had ever known anyone who shot at other kids with a BB gun, and he said he had never even known a kid who had one. Then I realized that kids can’t legally own them where we live. 😁

Edited June 22, 2022 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

It isn’t OP’s responsibility to figure out whether the boy has learned anything. Her responsibility lies with her son.

This is not the first violent incident with this child. No one should have to wait to report an assault. 

It is not the responsibility of children to take weapons out of the hands of other children in an attempt to prompt that child’s parents to get involved. If OP wants to have that conversation with the parents she can do that now or at any other time. It is an adults job to protect the children. Children shouldn’t have to learn how to or be expected to disarm their friends, and that is what you are recommending. Parents teach kids to attempt to disarm someone when they live in a war zone. Suburban USA is not a war zone and there are actions that OP can and should take to protect her own children and in doing so their friends will be safer, too. Talking to the other boy’s parents, reporting to CPS are all actions are all actions that are free of cost, don’t require a large amount of time 

I wasn’t raised around guns and don’t know much about weapons, but I do know that a BB gun is a weapon, not a toy, and it should not be out when neighbors are playing with each other. Everyone I knew that had a BB gun only used it for planned target practice (shooting at targets like cans or actual paper targets) and it was not used for play or to shoot at people or animals. Kids that got together for target practice did it only w/parent permission and oversight. The parents kept their BB’s with their bullets if they had other guns &’if they didn’t, they found another way to secure them. Kids had to ask their parents for the BBS,’meaning parents were immediately aware.!BB guns and BBs were never out for random play. 

OP should move heaven & earth to protect her child and others. it will be uncomfortable. It might be scary. But it is the right thing to do. 

Thank you for this.

I was starting to think I was losing my mind, because I only remember BB guns being used for target practice when I was a kid, too — and heaven help the kid who pointed their BB gun at another kid!  That would have been the last they ever saw of that BB gun!

I find it shocking that there seems to be such a casual attitude toward children shooting each other with BB guns. I truly didn’t expect that! If anyone had ever shot at my kid with a BB gun, I would have called the police. That is simply not acceptable behavior! 

Are BB guns even legal for kids to own in the OP’s state? They are not legal for kids where I live. And I am very happy about that, especially after reading this thread!

[SKL]

23 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, maybe it’s a regional thing or something?

I still find it so odd that kids would be shooting each other with BB guns, and that anyone would be excusing it as normal kid behavior. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to shoot their friends with BB guns. The entire concept is foreign to me. And gun safety is something we were taught since we were little kids, so it’s scary to think that kids would be so quick to disregard simple, common sense safety rules. 

I think @katilac mentioned it being common for teens to ride in the back of pickup trucks, too, and that was something we never saw, either. Pickup trucks weren’t common teen vehicles where I lived, anyway. When someone drove a pickup, it was generally for work. 

The point we were making is not that shooting bb guns at each other is good healthy fun, but that a bb gun is not a "weapon" comparable to other kinds of guns, as was implied in an earlier post.  It is more comparable to throwing pebbles at each other.

I'm surprised you have no recollection of any children ever disregarding safety rules they were taught.  What magical potion was in the water where you lived?

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

The point we were making is not that shooting bb guns at each other is good healthy fun, but that a bb gun is not a "weapon" comparable to other kinds of guns, as was implied in an earlier post.  It is more comparable to throwing pebbles at each other.

I'm surprised you have no recollection of any children ever disregarding safety rules they were taught.  What magical potion was in the water where you lived?

A BB gun is a weapon. Full stop.

Being shot with a BB is not at all like being hit with a pebble.

There’s nothing “magical” about teaching and following basic gun safety measures.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

“weapon

 noun

 

weap·on |  \ ˈwe-pən   \

Definition of weapon

 (Entry 1 of 2)

1: something (such as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy

2: a means of contending against another”

A bb gun can indeed be used as a weapon. So can a rock. So can a club (ie. A big stick or a lead pipe etc. ). 
 

A bb gun is not necessarily classed as a firearm (except in two states) but it indeed can be used as a weapon. That’s simple fact. 

[Catwoman]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

The point we were making is not that shooting bb guns at each other is good healthy fun, but that a bb gun is not a "weapon" comparable to other kinds of guns, as was implied in an earlier post.  It is more comparable to throwing pebbles at each other.

I'm surprised you have no recollection of any children ever disregarding safety rules they were taught.  What magical potion was in the water where you lived?

I never said that I had no recollection of any children ever disregarding safety rules. What I did say was that I have no recollection of children disregarding GUN safety rules.

Your statement that being shot with a BB gun is comparable to throwing pebbles at each other, is absolutely ridiculous! It is casual attitudes like yours that contribute to all of the gun-related problems we are having in this country. BB GUNS ARE WEAPONS. GUN SAFETY RULES APPLY TO ALL WEAPONS.

The concept that some people think that it’s all right to point an actual GUN at another person for any reason, whether or not they pull the trigger, is beyond disgusting to me. 

[katilac]

6 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Thank you very much for the explination 

Much appreciated 

Much more than anyone wanted to know, I'm sure, but I couldn't sleep 😄

[Catwoman]

4 hours ago, TechWife said:

A BB gun is a weapon. Full stop.

Being shot with a BB is not at all like being hit with a pebble.

There’s nothing “magical” about teaching and following basic gun safety measures.

 

 

3 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

“weapon

 noun

 

weap·on |  \ ˈwe-pən   \

Definition of weapon

 (Entry 1 of 2)

1: something (such as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy

2: a means of contending against another”

A bb gun can indeed be used as a weapon. So can a rock. So can a club (ie. A big stick or a lead pipe etc. ). 
 

A bb gun is not necessarily classed as a firearm (except in two states) but it indeed can be used as a weapon. That’s simple fact. 

I am truly shocked that this is even being debated. 

I thought everyone taught their kids simple gun safety rules, but apparently I was sadly mistaken. 😞 

[gardenmom5]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

  GUN safety rules.

Your statement that being shot with a BB gun is comparable to throwing pebbles at each other, is absolutely ridiculous! It is casual attitudes like yours that contribute to all of the gun-related problems we are having in this country. BB GUNS ARE WEAPONS. GUN SAFETY RULES APPLY TO ALL WEAPONS.

The concept that some people think that it’s all right to point an actual GUN at another person for any reason, whether or not they pull the trigger, is beyond disgusting to me. 

This.  It has been really disturbing to see such casual attitudes towards BB guns.    They're not toys.  They were an opportunity for kids to start learning about guns (and gun safety) - and target shooting - before nerf guns came out.  While I knew a few  boys who had them, I only knew one bratty kid who disobeyed the rules.  But his mother was one of "those" neighbors . . . (her husband seemed nice.)

I taught my kids strict rules for water guns,   (you can only squirt those that are playing, and if you shoot someone who isn't - mom will come out with a hose .  . . no running in the house to escape the hose)

they had real gun safety rules drilled into their heads for nerf guns.

[Catwoman]

4 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 

A bb gun is not necessarily classed as a firearm (except in two states) but it indeed can be used as a weapon. That’s simple fact. 

Yes, and in NYC and the boroughs, you have to be over 16 and have a permit to own a BB gun. Kids between the ages of 12 and 16 can shoot them at licensed gun ranges, but only under the supervision of a parent or guardian or a trained instructor.

These laws are in place because they are weapons and because kids shouldn't view any kind of actual gun as a toy. For heaven's sake, the kids in our neighborhood learned safety rules for Super Soakers and Nerf guns!

 

Edited to add -- sorry about the weird quote! I couldn't get it to work right.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

30 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

This.  It has been really disturbing to see such casual attitudes towards BB guns.    They're not toys.  They were an opportunity for kids to start learning about guns (and gun safety) - and target shooting - before nerf guns came out.  While I knew a few  boys who had them, I only knew one bratty kid who disobeyed the rules.  But his mother was one of "those" neighbors . . . (her husband seemed nice.)

I taught my kids strict rules for water guns,   (you can only squirt those that are playing, and if you shoot someone who isn't - mom will come out with a hose .  . . no running in the house to escape the hose)

they had real gun safety rules drilled into their heads for nerf guns.

YES! Exactly!!!

I posted below before I got caught up on the unread posts, so I just posted pretty much the same thing you already said here. 🙂 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Much more than anyone wanted to know, I'm sure, but I couldn't sleep 😄

I couldn't sleep last night, either! It's too bad we don't live near each other because we could have been doing something more constructive, like going out for cheesecake and coffee. 😉 

[SKL]

5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

“weapon

 noun

 

weap·on |  \ ˈwe-pən   \

Definition of weapon

 (Entry 1 of 2)

1: something (such as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy

2: a means of contending against another”

A bb gun can indeed be used as a weapon. So can a rock. So can a club (ie. A big stick or a lead pipe etc. ). 
 

A bb gun is not necessarily classed as a firearm (except in two states) but it indeed can be used as a weapon. That’s simple fact. 

Sure, well, so is a fist, if we want to get technical.

Forget it.  Once again people trying to willfully misunderstand / manipulate intent.

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

I never said that I had no recollection of any children ever disregarding safety rules. What I did say was that I have no recollection of children disregarding GUN safety rules.

Your statement that being shot with a BB gun is comparable to throwing pebbles at each other, is absolutely ridiculous! It is casual attitudes like yours that contribute to all of the gun-related problems we are having in this country. BB GUNS ARE WEAPONS. GUN SAFETY RULES APPLY TO ALL WEAPONS.

The concept that some people think that it’s all right to point an actual GUN at another person for any reason, whether or not they pull the trigger, is beyond disgusting to me. 

Have you been the recipient of both BBs and pebbles?  Because I have, multiple times, and the pebbles hurt worse.

I never said it was all right to point a gun at another person.  Please go back and read my actual posts (especially the first one) before you re-write what I said.

[SKL]

The suggestion I was responding to was calling the police and telling them a kid was wielding a firearm.  That is so dangerous.  Kids have been literally killed after similar calls to the police.  I'd rather my kid get shot with 100 BBs than have the neighbor kid shot with an actual deadly firearm.

[Harriet Vane]

Fabulous essay to read:

"Beauty, When the Other Dancer is Self"

by Alice Walker

[KSera]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

I'm surprised you have no recollection of any children ever disregarding safety rules they were taught.  What magical potion was in the water where you lived?

I’m entering this discussion late, but all I can think of through this whole kids misusing BB guns side bar is about how gun advocates always push for the answer being that all kids need to be taught to use guns safely, and then it will be safer to have more guns around, but you’re making the point repeatedly in this thread that kids don’t tend to follow safety rules. Point well made for why they shouldn’t be able to access deadly weapons. 

[TravelingChris]

28 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I couldn't sleep last night, either! It's too bad we don't live near each other because we could have been doing something more constructive, like going out for cheesecake and coffee. 😉 

I would be there too since I couldn't sleep either.  

[TechWife]

35 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I couldn't sleep last night, either! It's too bad we don't live near each other because we could have been doing something more constructive, like going out for cheesecake and coffee. 😉 

Take me, take me! I was up too! 

[Catwoman]

24 minutes ago, SKL said:

Have you been the recipient of both BBs and pebbles?  Because I have, multiple times, and the pebbles hurt worse.

I never said it was all right to point a gun at another person.  Please go back and read my actual posts (especially the first one) before you re-write what I said.

Where did you grow up??? What kind of horrible people did you grow up with??? The bullying you have described in this and other threads is horrifying, and I can't believe you are acting like it was no big deal to have been shot "multiple times" with BB guns. 

The kids you grew up with sound like they were violent sociopaths -- basically, the kind of people who should NEVER be allowed to own ANY kind of gun.

If you were shot multiple times by BB guns and still have the opinion that it's no big deal and that BB guns aren't "real" guns, it's kind of hard to believe that you also believe that no one should ever point any kind of gun at another person for any reason, so I'm going to stand by my posts.

[Catwoman]

12 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I would be there too since I couldn't sleep either.  

5 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Take me, take me! I was up too! 

Let's all go! 😃

[gardenmom5]

42 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I couldn't sleep last night, either! It's too bad we don't live near each other because we could have been doing something more constructive, like going out for cheesecake and coffee. 😉 

Can I come?  and if there isn't a place open, dh has a killer chocolate cheesecake recipe.

14 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’m entering this discussion late, but all I can think of through this whole kids misusing BB guns side bar is about how gun advocates always push for the answer being that all kids need to be taught to use guns safely, and then it will be safer to have more guns around, but you’re making the point repeatedly in this thread that kids don’t tend to follow safety rules. Point well made for why they shouldn’t be able to access deadly weapons. 

Kids can't follow safety rules if they've never been taught them - and most aren't.  They're just handed the BB gun.

 

 

[Catwoman]

Just now, gardenmom5 said:

Can I come?  and if there isn't a place open, dh has a killer chocolate cheesecake recipe.

 

You're in!!! 😃

[KSera]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

Kids can't follow safety rules if they've never been taught them - and most aren't.  They're just handed the BB gun.

That’s probably true, but it’s been stated repeatedly in the last page or so of this thread that kids know they’re not supposed to do those things, and they do it anyway because kids are well known to disregard rules. 

[SKL]

7 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Where did you grow up??? What kind of horrible people did you grow up with??? The bullying you have described in this and other threads is horrifying, and I can't believe you are acting like it was no big deal to have been shot "multiple times" with BB guns. 

The kids you grew up with sound like they were violent sociopaths -- basically, the kind of people who should NEVER be allowed to own ANY kind of gun.

If you were shot multiple times by BB guns and still have the opinion that it's no big deal and that BB guns aren't "real" guns, it's kind of hard to believe that you also believe that no one should ever point any kind of gun at another person for any reason, so I'm going to stand by my posts.

Again please re-read my original post, where I suggested that someone take that BB gun away from the kid and someone tell his parents that it needs confiscated because he hasn't learned gun safety.

[SKL]

9 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Where did you grow up??? What kind of horrible people did you grow up with??? The bullying you have described in this and other threads is horrifying, and I can't believe you are acting like it was no big deal to have been shot "multiple times" with BB guns. 

The kids you grew up with sound like they were violent sociopaths -- basically, the kind of people who should NEVER be allowed to own ANY kind of gun.

If you were shot multiple times by BB guns and still have the opinion that it's no big deal and that BB guns aren't "real" guns, it's kind of hard to believe that you also believe that no one should ever point any kind of gun at another person for any reason, so I'm going to stand by my posts.

And to answer your question where I grew up - I grew up in a working-class neighborhood of a large city.  A lot of shit goes down in cities.  Parents are usually working (or sleeping before their night shift) or absent for some other reason.

[gardenmom5]

6 minutes ago, KSera said:

That’s probably true, but it’s been stated repeatedly in the last page or so of this thread that kids know they’re not supposed to do those things, and they do it anyway because kids are well known to disregard rules. 

I've found when kids really understand and respect the rules - the rule breakers are the exception.   IME - most kids who disrespect weapons, were either never even taught the rules (and certainly can't repeat them back to you), or have no respect for them and therefore shouldn't even be allowed to hold a weapon.

 

And this thread is about a kid who does understand weapons are dangerous - and is *deliberately* threatening others with said weapon.

[TravelingChris]

I am just so happy none of my kids ever disregarded gun safety rules.   I started teaching the older two when one was 6 and the other was 2 or so.  Not with actual gun but with what to do if they found one because we were living in military housing, next to the end of the golf course  (fence between our place and golf course) and another fence very close by because it was the end of the golf course.  A block away from the military housing and golf course was a strip mall where robberies took place at night, police would give chase, and the robbers would jump the fence to the golf course to try and hide and I was very concerned that a gun used in the robbery would end up in my yard and kids would find it.  I taught all the neighborhood kids that they are not allowed to touch any gun they could find but go and tell an adult.  

Later on, when we were stationed in another state, ds did the BSA gun training, and later on, in yet another state, dd1 and dd2 were doing 4H Air Rifle training.  All these programs reinforced the rules that we had taught- don't point any gun at anyone, guns aren't toys, etc.  My kids never came across any kids with bb guns---and we only did about 5.5 years total in military housing plus 3 years overseas in Europe where I don't think bb guns are given to kids- but more time in areas where kids could have had them but didn't.  

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, SKL said:

The point we were making is not that shooting bb guns at each other is good healthy fun, but that a bb gun is not a "weapon" comparable to other kinds of guns, as was implied in an earlier post.  It is more comparable to throwing pebbles at each other.

I'm surprised you have no recollection of any children ever disregarding safety rules they were taught.  What magical potion was in the water where you lived?

Having seen MULTIPLE xrays of animals with BBs imbedded in their bodies, and not a single xray of a pebble imbedded in flesh, nor heard ever of a pebble being imbedded in flesh, I can say that is definitely not a good comparison. At all. 

Oh, and another animal clinic experience with a bb gun - we had an issue with rats at one point, getting in to eat the dog food - and one day one was spotted. The owner, a former MP in the Army, grabbed his BB gun out of his truck and shot it and killed it. 

Pretty sure throwing a pebble at it would not have had the same lethality. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by ktgrok

[TravelingChris]

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I've found when kids really understand and respect the rules - the rule breakers are the exception.   IME - most kids who disrespect weapons, were either never even taught the rules (and certainly can't repeat them back to you), or have no respect for them and therefore shouldn't even be allowed to hold a weapon.

 

And this thread is about a kid who does understand weapons are dangerous - and is *deliberately* threatening others with said weapon.

And to OPs point, I was reading about one Senator\s life and how he failed 4 classes freshman year in high school but got a mentor and his life turned around.  Also read a few years ago about Dr. Ben Carson, who did get into a violent confrontation as a very young man and turned his life around to become such a great physician who did so much good.  And so I do not think that this boy has to become a horrible person but someone needs to step in.

[Jean in Newcastle]

56 minutes ago, SKL said:

Sure, well, so is a fist, if we want to get technical.

Forget it.  Once again people trying to willfully misunderstand / manipulate intent.

Yes, a fist can be used as a weapon. And if they are, it is called battery. And now we’ve come full circle to the very start of this thread where I pointed out that the boy was assaulting the other. (And battery when the violence is carried out and not just threatened. ). 

[stephanier.1765]

8 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, maybe it’s a regional thing or something?

I still find it so odd that kids would be shooting each other with BB guns, and that anyone would be excusing it as normal kid behavior. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to shoot their friends with BB guns. The entire concept is foreign to me. And gun safety is something we were taught since we were little kids, so it’s scary to think that kids would be so quick to disregard simple, common sense safety rules. 

I think @katilac mentioned it being common for teens to ride in the back of pickup trucks, too, and that was something we never saw, either. Pickup trucks weren’t common teen vehicles where I lived, anyway. When someone drove a pickup, it was generally for work. 

It wasn't just teens riding in the back of pick ups. It was kids of elementary age too.

10 hours ago, SKL said:

Yeah, my dad certainly taught us that, and in fact, I don't think we owned a bb gun.  (Or possibly my older brothers had one taken away before I was cognizant of it.)  My dad sensed that in a houseful of kids, someone would probably get a dumb idea.

But we lived in a neighborhood and other people had bb guns.  And we did stupid things, as kids do.  My folks did not know about the bb gun shooting.  It was done when they were not present.

Kids do things they aren't supposed to do.  Especially when they congregate in groups.

Recently, I was reading a news story about 4 boys ages 6-11 playing in a backyard lighting gasoline on fire. Inevitably, the 6 year old caught on fire and severely burned his face. So kids are still doing really dumb things outside of parents' notice. I also grew up with kids shooting each other with BB guns.

[TravelingChris]

3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Yes, a fist can be used as a weapon. And if they are, it is called battery. And now we’ve come full circle to the very start of this thread where I pointed out that the boy was assaulting the other. (And battery when the violence is carried out and not just threatened. ). 

And the rock and the bbgun where he threatened OP's son is assault.  (Lots of people confuse what assault actually means-it is the threatening) If the threat is carried out, it can be charged as battery, as aggravated battery, as gross bodily injury or even attempted murder depending on injuries.  Depending on where the OP lives, kind of depends on what I would recommend to be done.  If she is living in LA county, I would have a very different recommendation than if she is living in low crime area where more people would be concerned about such a kid.

[SKL]

9 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

It wasn't just teens riding in the back of pick ups. It was kids of elementary age too.

Recently, I was reading a news story about 4 boys ages 6-11 playing in a backyard lighting gasoline on fire. Inevitably, the 6 year old caught on fire and severely burned his face. So kids are still doing really dumb things outside of parents' notice. I also grew up with kids shooting each other with BB guns.

Oh yes, my BIL practically blew himself up by throwing a cigarette down a gas well when he was 10.  He also cut off his whole thumb (as an adult), shortly before breaking the other hand punching a wall.  I believe there were other stories also.

In elementary school, I used to climb up the side of a 3-story schoolhouse, just to prove I could.  No safety gear of any kind.  Just dumb kid luck.  And yes I was told by boring silly adults not to do that.  Honestly, I could probably go on all day about dumb risks I took as a kid.  Clearly Darwin was wrong.

[katilac]

4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

The owner, a former MP in the Army, grabbed his BB gun out of his truck and shot it and killed it. 

Pretty sure throwing a pebble at it would not have had the same lethality. 

You are correct, and @SKLis correct. BB guns vary in velocity and there are different types and weights of bb's. 

Low velocity and lightweight bb's, and you get SKL's experience of bb's not penetrating the skin and not hurting that much. 

High velocity and heavier bb's, and you get your experience of a rat being killed with a bb gun. 

Two things can be true. SKL and others are telling the truth when they say they've experienced kids frequently shooting BB guns at each without ever breaking skin or hurting them that much. You are telling the truth when you say you saw a rat killed with a BB gun. 

[NorthernBeth]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

You are correct, and @SKLis correct. BB guns vary in velocity and there are different types and weights of bb's. 

Low velocity and lightweight bb's, and you get SKL's experience of bb's not penetrating the skin and not hurting that much. 

High velocity and heavier bb's, and you get your experience of a rat being killed with a bb gun. 

Two things can be true. SKL and others are telling the truth when they say they've experienced kids frequently shooting BB guns at each without ever breaking skin or hurting them that much. You are telling the truth when you say you saw a rat killed with a BB gun. 

Just wanted to say thank-you for this, as I have been kind of baffled by this thread.  I definitely remember kids having BB guns as a kid and they were absolutely treated as a toy, not a firearm.  I don't remember anyone getting hurt by one, nor did they seem capable of hurting someone unless you shot them in the eye.  They had no distance really whatsoever.  They would not even have been used for target practice by anyone seriously wanting to learn how to shoot.  They were not kept locked up and kids ran around with them without any supervision whatsoever.  I have to assume people are talking about 2 totally different classes of object.  None of us grew up to be sociopaths as far as I knew.  I was absolutely bullied as a child , and was far more frightened of the kid who kept hitting me with the ruler in school than I ever was of the neighborhood kid who ran around with his BB gun.  As to the specific incident under discussion, after the incident is over , CPS makes far more sense as they won't come in guns ablazing.  If your child is being threaatened, right then and there and the child won't back down, I can see calling the police , but I would totally want to emphasize that it was a BB gun rather than say an assault rifle or something.  CPS can also suggest things like parental training courses, support groups for kids who have special needs issues, check on whether this is also occurring at school, etc., drop in on the family periodically for surprise visits, as well as remove the child from the home if the parent is unco-operativve, or they feel the situation warrants it.  At least in my area, CPS has far more power than police do ( over children under the age of 13) , and in any situation involving a child, police are usually going to get them involved right away, as handling children is considered "their" territory.   I imagine this varies in different regions. Here the polilce would give a "youth warning", and it would go on their file.  They might talk to the parents.  CPS would be far more useful. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by NorthernBeth
clarify information

[kiwik]

On 6/17/2022 at 5:04 PM, Jean in Newcastle said:

The boy is 12. But the point is to stop what is a trajectory that has no good outcome. A child with no appropriate interventions in the home is not going to suddenly realize that he’s on the wrong path. He’s not going to suddenly get “tools “ to use himself. Right now his tools are the tools of assault. And as he grows stronger he’s going to be able to wield those tools with more force. So again my question to the OP is what is her line in the sand. When her own son or another neighbor boy ends up in the ER?  

Yes.  At 12 it may be possible for someone to intervene.  In a few years it probably won't be. And if he does harm someone you will be always wondering whether you could have prevented it.