This is what it looks like to be a full time SAHM

[sassenach]

I just looked up my social security benefits just to see how many quarters I still need to earn. This is both expected and also kind of poignant to see in black and white. My kids will probably never fully get the weight of those zeros. I'm not mad about it but I will surely be glad to finish up my 22 remaining quarters.

 

[KSera]

I feel this too. I didn’t expect it to bother me, and it didn’t used to, but it does now. 

[sassenach]

Ironically I’m about to start a county job that’s social security exempt but I think I’ve at least earned my quarters for the year. 

[Zinnia2]

I also didn't expect to feel so much about this decision at this point in my life, but I do.  Still debating about what direction to head in next.

[klmama]

Don't forget about spousal benefits. You can receive half your spouse's amount.  Even people who have divorced can receive half their spouse's benefit.  I believe you have to have been married for 10 years.

Edited May 2, 2022 by klmama

[Matryoshka]

8 minutes ago, klmama said:

Don't forget about spousal benefits. You can receive half your spouse's amount.  Even people who have divorced can receive half their spouse's benefit.  I believe you have to have been married for 10 years.

Yes, at this point it's pointless to try to rack up my own personal SS benefits, my half of dh's will be more than mine no matter how much I put in between now and my mid 60s.

[Pawz4me]

11 minutes ago, klmama said:

Don't forget about spousal benefits. You can receive half your spouse's amount.  Even people who have divorced can receive half their spouse's benefit.  I believe you have to have been married for 10 years.

Yes, this.

I had enough work history pre-SAHM time that I can draw SS of my own. But half of DH's will be way, way more.

[Indigo Blue]

Does anyone know if the very last year you work before retirement will be what your benefits are based on? I mean, if you make a set amount for three years and then have a higher salary on the fourth and last year before you draw SSS, will your benefits reflect that increase in that last year? Or do you have to work longer before the benefits are adjusted? 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Does anyone know if the very last year you work before retirement will be what your benefits are based on? I mean, if you make a set amount for three years and then have a higher salary on the fourth and last year before you draw SSS, will your benefits reflect that increase in that last year?

See here

Quote

Social Security replaces a percentage of your pre-retirement income based on their lifetime earnings. The portion of your pre-retirement wages that Social Security replaces is based on your highest 35 years of earnings and varies depending on how much you earn and when you choose to start benefits.

 

[sassenach]

I need someone to explain the 1/2 spousal benefits to me. We get to choose between 1/2 of our spouse's or our full benefit? What if he dies before me?

[Matryoshka]

Just now, sassenach said:

I need someone to explain the 1/2 spousal benefits to me. We get to choose between 1/2 of our spouse's or our full benefit? What if he dies before me?

Yes, you choose. If you're widowed, I think you get the full amount (I think you have to wait till you turn 60 to withdraw benefits - vs 65 for your own SS - and the monthly amount is smaller the younger you are when you start, similar to regular SS benefits).  I have a friend who was recently widowed, and I was helping her look into this.

[Pawz4me]

12 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I need someone to explain the 1/2 spousal benefits to me. We get to choose between 1/2 of our spouse's or our full benefit? What if he dies before me?

Yes. If your full benefit is more then you'd draw that. If half of your spouse's benefit is more then you'd draw that. If your spouse dies before you then you'll be eligible to draw his/her full benefit (although the full benefit may be reduced depending on what age you start drawing).

ETA: Link

Edited May 2, 2022 by Pawz4me

[Carol in Cal.]

2 hours ago, sassenach said:

Ironically I’m about to start a county job that’s social security exempt but I think I’ve at least earned my quarters for the year. 

Please think twice before you do this.  The Windfall Elimination Tax might reduce your husband’s SS as well as yours if you do.  Please, do investigate this before you start getting paid w/o SS deductions.

[sassenach]

8 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Please think twice before you do this.  The Windfall Elimination Tax might reduce your husband’s SS as well as yours if you do.  Please, do investigate this before you start getting paid w/o SS deductions.

How would me working a pensioned position change his social security? 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

Yes, at this point it's pointless to try to rack up my own personal SS benefits, my half of dh's will be more than mine no matter how much I put in between now and my mid 60s.

My concern is that they will end the spousal benefit. There are numerous, misogynistic p.o.s. male politicians who have suggested that this would be one way to fix ss because why should a woman get benefits when she didn't work for money! So that weighs on me as we look at a fairly bust system as of 2030 when there will only be two workers for every one recipient. At some point, someone is going to get burned, I suspect the SAHMs will be the torched folks.

[DawnM]

When I worked in CA I didn't pay into SS at all.   Their teacher retirement system didn't pay into SS.   Here in NC I have paid in, so I will get some, but not nearly what the teachers who worked in NC their entire career will get.

[Carol in Cal.]

39 minutes ago, sassenach said:

How would me working a pensioned position change his social security? 

It can. It often does.  Please, talk with an expert before you do this.  The first paycheck you get like that sets it in stone.

You can find info about it on irs.gov.  Once there, search on ‘windfall elimination’.  I have not done this for a while, but the last time I did there were two PDFs that popped up—one about the effect on your SS award amount, and the other about the effect on your spouse’s.

[Matryoshka]

25 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

My concern is that they will end the spousal benefit. There are numerous, misogynistic p.o.s. male politicians who have suggested that this would be one way to fix ss because why should a woman get benefits when she didn't work for money! So that weighs on me as we look at a fairly bust system as of 2030 when there will only be two workers for every one recipient. At some point, someone is going to get burned, I suspect the SAHMs will be the torched folks.

That wouldn't surprise me, but at my age it's not like I can do anything to fix it now, since I lack a time travel device. Hopefully if it did there'd be some grandfathering.

Interesting how the same patriarchal asshats who want women barefoot, preggo, and in the kitchen also think that women should be punished for not contributing equally financially.

[Faith-manor]

21 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

That wouldn't surprise me, but at my age it's not like I can do anything to fix it now, since I lack a time travel device. Hopefully if it did there'd be some grandfathering.

Interesting how the same patriarchal asshats who want women barefoot, preggo, and in the kitchen also think that women should be punished for not contributing equally financially.

Yup. Anything to oppress women...economic slavery.

[Murphy101]

4 hours ago, sassenach said:

I just looked up my social security benefits just to see how many quarters I still need to earn. This is both expected and also kind of poignant to see in black and white. My kids will probably never fully get the weight of those zeros. I'm not mad about it but I will surely be glad to finish up my 22 remaining quarters.

 

Doing better than me. 😬

[mum]

I have many regrets and not continuing to earn is one of them. 

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, mum said:

I have many regrets and not continuing to earn is one of them. 

Yeah, on the one hand, I have no regrets about having been home with my kids while they were young, but now that most of them are older, I wish I had somehow found a way to re-enter the workforce at some point before now. I graduated with a highly employable degree, but now it's just been too long. It seems there's something about getting older that makes this an issue when it never was for me before.

[maize]

I would like to see unpaid caregivers gain eligibility for social security disability benefits (the kind workers earn); we should receive credits for the years we work without pay. Or at least be given the opportunity to choose to pay into the system.
Unpaid labor is a huge part of what keeps our economy and our country running. Our contribution is not negligible. And if I became disabled and incapable of doing the work I do regularly my family would suffer and so would my husband's ability to be effective in his paid employment.

Edited May 3, 2022 by maize

[Pawz4me]

6 minutes ago, maize said:

I would like to see unpaid caregivers gain eligibility for social security disability benefits (the kind workers earn); we should receive credits for the years we work without pay. Or at least be given the opportunity to choose to pay into the system.
Unpaid labor is a huge part of what keeps our economy and our country running. Out contribution is not negligible. And if I became disabled and incapable of doing the work I do regularly my family would suffer and so would my husband's ability to be effective in his paid employment.

Yes. Absolutely. Not being able to qualify for SSDI due to time spent as a stay at home parent or as a caregiver to a spouse or other relative is a huge unfairness. And it’s more than just not drawing a monthly disability payment. People who qualify for SSDI are eligible for Medicare two years later, regardless of age. And that can be a huge money saver, not to mention the peace of mind benefit of knowing you have some insurance that can’t be taken away. 

[Sunshine State Sue]

4 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

You can find info about it on irs.gov.  Once there, search on ‘windfall elimination’.  I have not done this for a while, but the last time I did there were two PDFs that popped up—one about the effect on your SS award amount, and the other about the effect on your spouse’s.

Is this what you are talking about?

Government Pension Offset at ssa.gov

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, maize said:

I would like to see unpaid caregivers gain eligibility for social security disability benefits (the kind workers earn); we should receive credits for the years we work without pay. Or at least be given the opportunity to choose to pay into the system.
Unpaid labor is a huge part of what keeps our economy and our country running. Out contribution is not negligible. And if I became disabled and incapable of doing the work I do regularly my family would suffer and so would my husband's ability to be effective in his paid employment.

I completely agree.

I have a friend who developed lupus as a SAHM, and because she had not worked for pay recently enough, she was unable to get SSDI.

[Carol in Cal.]

Here is their pdf on someone’s own earnings:

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf

I can’t seem to find a reference for a spouse’s income being reduced, but it’s a big website and I know for sure that that has been a thing in the not terribly distant past.  I would strongly suggest talking with someone at a SSA office and nailing this down in advance.

[katilac]

7 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Yes, at this point it's pointless to try to rack up my own personal SS benefits, my half of dh's will be more than mine no matter how much I put in between now and my mid 60s.

Yes, this is true for me as well, but don't forget about the actual money you are making in the moment, lol. Working is not only about racking up SS benefits. 

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Here is their pdf on someone’s own earnings:

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf

I can’t seem to find a reference for a spouse’s income being reduced, but it’s a big website and I know for sure that that has been a thing in the not terribly distant past.  I would strongly suggest talking with someone at a SSA office and nailing this down in advance.

It will not affect her husband's own Social Security benefits, and it will only affect her if she works 5.5 years at a different job and actually becomes eligible for Social Security. 

WTP affects people who are eligible for both Social Security and a pension from a job that did not pay into Social Security. If you have 30 years of substantial earnings that paid into SS, it will no longer apply. 
 
If you apply for SS as spouse/widow/widower and also have a government pension, you can anticipate that your spousal benefit will be reduced (under a different provision). 

[Carol in Cal.]

46 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

It will not affect her husband's own Social Security benefits, and it will only affect her if she works 5.5 years at a different job and actually becomes eligible for Social Security. 

 

When did it change away from affecting the spouse’s benefits?  I am positive that it did at one time.  It was an issue in my own family which is why I knew about it.

[sassenach]

7 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

When did it change away from affecting the spouse’s benefits?  I am positive that it did at one time.  It was an issue in my own family which is why I knew about it.

From what I read it can affect spouses who planned on taking the 50% benefit, but it doesn’t impact widower or the spouses own earned benefit. There is zero chance that I will out earn dh so this will not impact his benefits. 

[mum]

On 5/2/2022 at 7:33 PM, Carol in Cal. said:

Here is their pdf on someone’s own earnings:

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf

I can’t seem to find a reference for a spouse’s income being reduced, but it’s a big website and I know for sure that that has been a thing in the not terribly distant past.  I would strongly suggest talking with someone at a SSA office and nailing this down in advance.

It's called the Windfall Elimination Provision. We are affected by this. My husband is a teacher in California. Teachers here don't pay into SS. So any social security he would be eligible for is reduced (and in his case eliminated) by the pension that he receives through the state teachers retirement. This can also affect the SS of a spouse of a state worker. So my SS is reduced because of his pension. I can see it affecting his SS, but I think it is absolutely unfair that it affects mine.

"The family benefit payable to the spouse of a retired worker subject to the WEP is also reduced, but only while that worker is alive." https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/does-my-government-pension-reduce-spouse-survivor-benefit.html

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by mum
added link

[katilac]

3 hours ago, mum said:

It's called the Windfall Elimination Provision. We are affected by this. My husband is a teacher in California. Teachers here don't pay into SS. So any social security he would be eligible for is reduced (and in his case eliminated) by the pension that he receives through the state teachers retirement. This can also affect the SS of a spouse of a state worker. So my SS is reduced because of his pension. I can see it affecting his SS, but I think it is absolutely unfair that it affects mine.

"The family benefit payable to the spouse of a retired worker subject to the WEP is also reduced, but only while that worker is alive." https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/does-my-government-pension-reduce-spouse-survivor-benefit.html

 

But again, this is not referring to your Social Security benefits, but your spousal benefits. 

Social Security is based on work record. If you claim via your own work record, then it's based on your work record and your spouse's non-SS pension does not affect it. If you claim your spouse's work record, then it's based on his/her work record, which is going to be strongly affected by not paying into SS. You are always eligible for the higher amount (your own SS or spousal benefits). 

If your spouse dies, WEP no longer comes into play. 

That is definitely my understanding, and I haven't found anything to contradict it. 

 

[Laura Corin]

3 hours ago, katilac said:

If your spouse dies, WEP no longer comes into play. 

That is definitely my understanding, and I haven't found anything to contradict it. 

 

I have been wondering about this.  Husband is hit by WEP because he has a small right to the UK's Social Security equivalent; my spousal US SS is therefore affected.  If he were to die, then the WEP deduction would disappear and I would get the full amount?

I hope that the US doesn't remove the ability for SAHS to claim from their spouse's SS record.  This split was made in the UK, but there's a back-up system: if you have a child under age 16 (or 18 and still in full-time education) then the family receives a child benefit payment each week (£21 for first child, £14 for second and subsequent).  The person who claims the child benefit is also deemed to amass SS-equivalent contributions up until the last child reaches age 12 - senior school age.  Had I home educated in the UK rather than overseas, I would have had a full record up until Hobbes turned 12, by which time Calvin was 15.

[mum]

18 hours ago, katilac said:

But again, this is not referring to your Social Security benefits, but your spousal benefits. 

Social Security is based on work record. If you claim via your own work record, then it's based on your work record and your spouse's non-SS pension does not affect it. If you claim your spouse's work record, then it's based on his/her work record, which is going to be strongly affected by not paying into SS. You are always eligible for the higher amount (your own SS or spousal benefits). 

If your spouse dies, WEP no longer comes into play. 

That is definitely my understanding, and I haven't found anything to contradict it. 

 

"Can I still get Social Security benefits from my own work? The offset applies only to Social Security benefits as a spouse, or widow, or widower. However, we may reduce your own benefits because of another provision. For more information, go online to read Windfall Elimination Provision (Publication No. 05-10045)." 

I am have been to retirement seminars put on by the state, my husband will receive a state pension, and it appears that MY OWN social security based on my OWN earnings could be affected. I hope I am wrong, but this is what we have been told.

[katilac]

15 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I have been wondering about this.  Husband is hit by WEP because he has a small right to the UK's Social Security equivalent; my spousal US SS is therefore affected.  If he were to die, then the WEP deduction would disappear and I would get the full amount?

I hope that the US doesn't remove the ability for SAHS to claim from their spouse's SS record.  

As it stands, yes. 

FYI, anyone can get spousal benefits if the percentage amount is more than what their own would pay, so not just a sahm or sahd thing. 

That correlation with the child benefit is brilliant. 

1 hour ago, mum said:

"Can I still get Social Security benefits from my own work? The offset applies only to Social Security benefits as a spouse, or widow, or widower. However, we may reduce your own benefits because of another provision. For more information, go online to read Windfall Elimination Provision (Publication No. 05-10045)." 

I am have been to retirement seminars put on by the state, my husband will receive a state pension, and it appears that MY OWN social security based on my OWN earnings could be affected. I hope I am wrong, but this is what we have been told.

With the caveat that I am not an expert by any means, I am just not seeing that in any of the documents. 

Your quote: "Can I still get Social Security benefits from my own work? The offset applies only to Social Security benefits as a spouse, or widow, or widower. However, we may reduce your own benefits because of another provision. For more information, go online to read Windfall Elimination Provision (Publication No. 05-10045)."  

Okay, this seems to say that Windfall only applies if you are the person with the pension or a person who gets spousal benefits because it's more than their own SS. Windfall is not affecting the social security you would get if your own earned benefits are more than the spousal benefits. 

Now we have to look at the Government Pension Offset like the Windfall page told us to do, publication 10007: 

"Can I still get Social Security benefits from my own work? The offset applies only to Social Security benefits as a spouse, or widow, or widower. However, we may reduce your own benefits because of another provision. For more information, go online to read Windfall Elimination Provision." 

So both documents say the same thing, this offset only applies to spousal and survivor benefits. Each document refers you back to the other one, which says the same thing, but I suppose that might be in case the other provision changes. 

I interpret this to mean that either provision could affect your spousal benefits, but not your own earned benefits if they are greater than the spousal benefit. And really, my advice is probably worth what you're paying for it, but I simply cannot find reference to either provision affecting a spouse's social security if it would be more than the spousal benefit. If you find any such, please definitely share. 

You had great advice in one of your posts: talk to the SS agency about this. It's a pretty straightforward question for them. You can call or email. 

 

 

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

As it stands, yes. 

FYI, anyone can get spousal benefits if the percentage amount is more than what their own would pay, so not just a sahm or sahd thing. 

That correlation with the child benefit is brilliant. 

Thank you. The only glitch with the child benefit is in abusive relationships or if the couple don't understand the significance.  Either parent can claim child benefit on behalf of the family, but if the working parent does, no contribution equivalents accrue to the non working parent. 

[SKL]

It used to annoy my mom that her friend, who was always a SAHM, would get more SS than my mom, who always worked and paid in - because friend's dh made more money than my dad.  (My mom also had twice as many kids, so it's not like her friend's work at home was harder.)

It's a strange and complicated system for sure.

I can't complain about spousal benefits or SAHM benefits.  I just have whatever I've paid in myself.