Are we being mean to our dog?

[Drama Llama]

I traded my husband in for my son's dog. 

Well, not exactly, but when we lived with DH and his Dad we sent the dog to live with DH's brother and his wife, because DH's dad has pretty bad dog allergies.  Now that the kids and I moved back to our own house, we got the dog back.

But now I am worried that the dog is lonely. Since we last lived with the dog the kids have grown up a lot, and their day has gotten longer.  It used to be that he was home from maybe 8 till 2.  Yesterday, for example, we all left the house at 7:30 a.m. and got home a little after 7:00 p.m.  He got walked by someone else midday, but other than that he was alone.  In contrast, when he's at my B/SIL's he's got company all day. 

Do you think he's OK with that?  I wish I could ask him.  He's old so he doesn't need a ton of exercise, so I'm not worried about that.  Just about loneliness. 

[mmasc]

I would think a 12-hour day alone other than a mid-day walk would be pretty lonely for a dog. But, my view might be skewed since I homeschool and our dogs are with us 24-hours a day many days of the week. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I think to go from all day company to 12 hours of being alone, would be a difficult adjustment for any dog. You should be on the look out for signs of stress - decrease in eating, potty accidents, grumpy behavior, etc.

I don't know if I would call it being mean but it might not be in his best interests. Some things to consider are if he's in the house alone for that length of time or if he has access to a doggie door where he can go in and out at will. How much time does the mid-day person spend with him? Just a potty break or a decent 60 minute walk?

How long was the dog used to the all day companionship? 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Granny_Weatherwax

[ktgrok]

Could you share custody? Dog do BIL's house during the week, or go there during the day for "daycare" and then come home at night or weekends?

[Lisa]

I would guess the dog is lonely. Going from being with someone all day to alone for 12 hours can be hard on a dog.

[Catwoman]

I hate to say this, but are you sure the dog wouldn't be better off going back to live with your DH's brother and his wife? It sounds like he was happy there -- and they are probably missing him, as well.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I feel like I'd need more info to give good advice, just me personally.

How do B/SIL feel about it all? Do they miss him? How long was he with them?

[Drama Llama]

37 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I hate to say this, but are you sure the dog wouldn't be better off going back to live with your DH's brother and his wife? It sounds like he was happy there -- and they are probably missing him, as well.

Am I sure?  No.  Am I sure that telling my child that he needs to give up his dog again would break his heart?  Yes.  

 

[Drama Llama]

32 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I feel like I'd need more info to give good advice, just me personally.

How do B/SIL feel about it all? Do they miss him? How long was he with them?

I'm sure they miss him, particularly SIL.  She's been stopping by on her lunch break to walk him.  I don't think they miss him as much as DS14 missed him when he was there.  

[Pawz4me]

How often is he alone for that long, or is that a normal weekday? What about weekends?

Can SIL continue to stop in to give him a potty break on the long days?

How much, and what kind of, attention does he get when you are at home?

How old is he? Does he have any health issues? Some older dogs probably welcome the opportunity to sleep the day away undisturbed.

What kind of interaction did he get at the other house--is it adults and older kids, or are there rambunctious young kids (who might irritate an older dog)? Do they interact with him a lot or is he just kind of hanging out with them?

Mostly I'd think about who his favorite person is, and where he has the most interaction with that person (assuming the feeling is at least somewhat reciprocal).

You don't have to answer all those here, just posting some things you might want to consider.

[ktgrok]

10 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Am I sure?  No.  Am I sure that telling my child that he needs to give up his dog again would break his heart?  Yes.  

 

Given that, I'd keep the dog, but see if you can drop him off for "play dates" at BIL/SIL's house on longer days when no one is home. Is that possible?

[DreamerGirl]

We are not a pet family and I do not know much about kinds of pets and their care. But what I do know is how much they help people cope loss.

Your children are going through a hard transition and have a multitude of losses. So anything that helps them cope I would prioritize. I would share the dog with B/SI as they stepped in. You also cannot ignore the dog's needs. It is a living being with needs and feelings, not a stuffed toy. So can you have a compromise ?

Doggy day care a few days a week as I am not sure how much expensive it is ? A dog walker to walk the dog more other than SIL's walk ?

Alternating days with B/SIL ? Alternate weekends ? 

But I would put my kids needs above all if I had to choose and then compromise as much as I can with others needs.

[Catwoman]

53 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Am I sure?  No.  Am I sure that telling my child that he needs to give up his dog again would break his heart?  Yes.  

 

Ok, then it sounds like your mind was already made up before you started this thread -- and that is absolutely fine. I wouldn't want to tell any child that they had to give up their dog. 

I thought you started the thread because you were concerned about the dog being lonely and that you were wondering what was best for him. If your dog is regularly going to be home alone for stretches of up to 12 hours a day, and his other option is being with people who also love him but are home all day, I think it's pretty clear which is better for the dog. 

But now that your dog is back home with your family, I don't see how you can take him away from your child again, either.

It seems like the time to have thought about all of this would have been before you brought your dog back home to live with you, but I can understand getting caught up in the excitement of having him back and not really thinking things through. 

If the dog is important to your son, is there any way to adjust your schedules so that someone can spend more time with the dog?

[katilac]

47 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Am I sure that telling my child that he needs to give up his dog again would break his heart?  Yes.  

Then we can probably assume that you aren't going to get rid of the dog, and work from there. 

Is 12 hours a day, multiple days, too long to leave a dog alone? I'd say yes, for pretty much any dog (really almost any pet). That's a really long time. So you need to think of ways to improve the situation. Things like: 

The kid who wants the dog should build enough margin into his mornings that he can give pup some attention and play before leaving. Ideally, he would take him outside for at least a few minutes longer than it takes him to use the bathroom. 

Intentional attention and play in the evening (not just a walk and then sitting next to you). 

Most pets don't like to sit in a silent house all day. You can leave on the tv if he likes to watch, or just stream music and audiobooks. You can use an Alexa or similar device to turn it on and off if that's better than having it on all day. 

You should have a petcam to watch for anxiety behaviors, and also to get a rhythm for his day (when he's likely to nap and not want music, for example). It amuses us greatly to talk to our sugar gliders on their glider cam, but some pets may not like hearing you and not seeing you. 

Lots of stimulating toys like treat puzzles. 

Use a mix of pet walkers and doggy day care so it's not just a string of unbroken days. If 10- to 12-hour days are going to be the norm, I think this is pretty much required (not every day). 

You could get another dog, but you probably don't want to do that, lol. 

 

[Drama Llama]

9 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Ok, then it sounds like your mind was already made up before you started this thread -- and that is absolutely fine. I wouldn't want to tell any child that they had to give up their dog. 

I thought you started the thread because you were concerned about the dog being lonely and that you were wondering what was best for him. If your dog is regularly going to be home alone for stretches of up to 12 hours a day, and his other option is being with people who also love him but are home all day, I think it's pretty clear which is better for the dog. 

But now that your dog is back home with your family, I don't see how you can take him away from your child again, either.

It seems like the time to have thought about all of this would have been before you brought your dog back home to live with you, but I can understand getting caught up in the excitement of having him back and not really thinking things through. 

If the dog is important to your son, is there any way to adjust your schedules so that someone can spend more time with the dog?

I want to know if this is a problem I need to solve, or if, since he is acting like he's fine, it's possible he is fine.  

But the solution isn't going to be to send the dog away again.  I think there are other ways to solve the problem besides separating the two of them.  But first, I need to figure out whether there's an actual problem.  

[Drama Llama]

My impression is that he's too old for doggy daycare.  He used to love it when he was young and needed to be worn out, but he's an old guy and while he's in good health, I think he'd find it overwhelming to be up with other dogs all day.  He sleeps a lot.  But we have several options for dog walkers, or people who can take him out for some time in the yard.  

DS11 has been taking him out in the mornings, and DS14 takes him out in the afternoon.  He's not really into play any more he wants walks and snuggles, and he gets those.  He used to love to chase a ball for hours but now he's happy to do that a few times and then he's done.  

It wasn't actually 12 hours yesterday.   I realized after I wrote it that I went into work late, because I had a telehealth appointment.  But that's just a coincidence.  What happened yesterday (away game for one of my kids, and then we were invited to someone's house for dinner) could have happened on a day when I went to work on time. 

[katilac]

1 minute ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I want to know if this is a problem I need to solve, or if, since he is acting like he's fine, it's possible he is fine.  

But the solution isn't going to be to send the dog away again.  I think there are other ways to solve the problem besides separating the two of them.  But first, I need to figure out whether there's an actual problem.  

Yes, it's an actual problem. With a few exceptions like fish and most reptiles, leaving a pet alone for very long days on a regular basis is very tough on them. 

If sil lives close enough that she can come walk the dog sometimes, then you should be able to work it out to have the dog there a few days a week (assuming she is willing, of course). Maybe some days she could come to walk him and then just take him home, and you pick him up in the evening. Other days, you could drop him off in the morning and pick him up in the evening. Buy extra food for their house. 

If you could do that at least 2-3 times per week, and then implement some of the other suggestions for when he is alone, that would go far. 

[SKL]

If SIL is visiting him midday and he's older and not very active, it might be OK, but it would probably be better if he had one more human encounter during such a long day.  If he's friendly, perhaps a student who lives nearby could stop by after school and spend some time with him.

[Catwoman]

21 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I want to know if this is a problem I need to solve, or if, since he is acting like he's fine, it's possible he is fine.  

But the solution isn't going to be to send the dog away again.  I think there are other ways to solve the problem besides separating the two of them.  But first, I need to figure out whether there's an actual problem.  

As others have already said, it is a problem to leave a dog alone for that many hours, particularly when he has become so accustomed to living in a home where people are around all day.

No one has said that it is imperative that you get rid of the dog. Hopefully, some of the solutions people have suggested will work for you.

[Catwoman]

Can he stay at your SIL's house during the day on weekdays and come home at night to play with your son and sleep with him? He could be with you full time on weekends.

It's like a shared custody agreement, but for dogs. 😉 

[Ann.without.an.e]

On 2/17/2022 at 4:50 PM, Catwoman said:

Can he stay at your SIL's house during the day on weekdays and come home at night to play with your son and sleep with him? He could be with you full time on weekends.

It's like a shared custody agreement, but for dogs. 😉 

I was going to suggest the exact same thing, shared custody of sorts. 🙂 

[Dianthus]

How's it going with you otherwise? Where is Pop?

[importswim]

By taking him out do you mean walking him? If so then 3 walks a day is a lot for an old dog. If he seems to get along well with it then I think that's some great time spent with him but just watch his joints and movement to make sure he's not hurting. 

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

We work 24 hour+ shifts, and our solution was to get more than one dog.  That may not work with an elderly dog though. My in laws come up and let them out and play with them throughout the day, and now that we’ve moved my cousin’s daughter comes over too.  My MIL usually spends the night at my house with my kids too, and they’re interacting with the dogs. But there are still often long stretches of time the dogs are alone.  They play with each other, I watch them on the pet cam, we leave puzzles and treats and such.  But they’ve been used to this schedule since they were babies, and I think it would be incredibly hard to go from always having people around to 12 hours plus alone.

That said—I think your son’s needs trump the dog’s needs, as much as I love dogs.  I’d look for a doggy day care solution, even if it’s someone who just wants a dog around during the day and can be a companion. I don’t know how old your dog is, but my 8-year-old golden prefers to lie around all day and be left alone by the crazy kids and two crazy puppies(i have a 2 year old and a less than a year old golden too) as much as possible. So perhaps this isn’t as hard on the dog as we’re assuming, either. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Drama Llama]

20 minutes ago, importswim said:

By taking him out do you mean walking him? If so then 3 walks a day is a lot for an old dog. If he seems to get along well with it then I think that's some great time spent with him but just watch his joints and movement to make sure he's not hurting. 

 

Some walking, some just hanging in the yard.  

He loves to walk, and if you don’t go fast he will go for as long as you go, but unlike a few years ago if he doesn’t get a lot of walk he’s not restless.

 

[lmrich]

How old is he? 

I think if the SIL is able to come over during the day and you are normally only gone 8 hours a day, an older dog will be fine. 

 

[Drama Llama]

25 minutes ago, lmrich said:

How old is he? 

I think if the SIL is able to come over during the day and you are normally only gone 8 hours a day, an older dog will be fine. 

 

We have had him 12 years.  He is a rescue and was an adult.  When we got him they said he was 5 but he is not 17.  So??? 13 or 14 is my guess.

I am home alone with him today.  He slept all morning, which is a change from when he was younger but we just went for an hour walk and he kept up with my not impressive pace happily.  

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, Spirea said:

How's it going with you otherwise? Where is Pop?

We went back to what we did before DS2, which is Pop living at my FIL’s house and then coming to my house when the kids get home from school, and staying though dinner.  That is working OK.  The dog is always very excited to see him when he shows up. 

We are muddling along.  The kids and I have fallen into old routines fast.  Figuring out the marriage is harder.  One kid is missing Dad and one wants as much distance as possible.

[HomeAgain]

I will just say, doggies can look tired and sleep often when they are depressed.  It may not be age unless you are absolutely sure this is exactly how he acted at your inlaws' house.  The behavior you see may not be indicative of the sentiment you give it.

[Drama Llama]

I guess that is one of my questions, what is normal for a 14 year old dog?  

He definitely got less active at my SIL’s, but I also think that he could have been depressed there, he is pretty bonded to DS, the separation was hard for both.

[Ann.without.an.e]

3 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I guess that is one of my questions, what is normal for a 14 year old dog?  

He definitely got less active at my SIL’s, but I also think that he could have been depressed there, he is pretty bonded to DS, the separation was hard for both.

Does he seem happy to be back with ds?  Did you say how long he was with your SIL and I missed it?  

I think it is a hard situation and don't have any clear answers. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Drama Llama]

Just now, Ann.without.an.e said:

Does he seem happy to be back with ds?  Did you say how long he was with your SIL and I missed it?  

I think it is a hard situation and don't have any clear answers. 

He is so happy, if DS is home he follows him around.  Sleeps in his bed

He is happy to see the rest of us but DS is his bff.

He was gone about 2 years with visits.

[Jean in Newcastle]

He sounds absolutely fine for a 13 or 14 year old dog. 

[Pawz4me]

8 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I guess that is one of my questions, what is normal for a 14 year old dog?  

He definitely got less active at my SIL’s, but I also think that he could have been depressed there, he is pretty bonded to DS, the separation was hard for both.

It's very normal for 14 yo dogs to sleep a LOT.

At that age I'd be less concerned about him being alone all day, but I would very much make sure he has ample bathroom breaks.

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

He is so happy, if DS is home he follows him around.  Sleeps in his bed

He is happy to see the rest of us but DS is his bff.

He was gone about 2 years with visits.

I haven't read all of the replies. 10 of his 14 years was with you and your "pack" and with DS as his BFF?  I'd say that he is probably happiest with your family. Try to find ways to give him the exercise and love and attention he needs. Remind your ds that at 14, there's no guess how many more years you have with him and encourage him to spend lots of time with him. Love on him hard and cherish him while you have him. With all that your family is facing right now, don't separate the dog and his boy long term unless you have to ❤️ I wish y'all the best with all of this. It sounds tough. 

[Rachel]

48 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

It's very normal for 14 yo dogs to sleep a LOT.

At that age I'd be less concerned about him being alone all day, but I would very much make sure he has ample bathroom breaks.

I definitely agree. We had a 16 year old dog from the time he was 8 weeks old and a 14 year old dog that we had from age 7ish. By around age 12 they slowed down a lot and spent much of the day sleeping and had playful moments but didn’t mind being left alone. They definitely needed more frequent potty breaks though. We were at home when both of them were elderly but it wasn’t uncommon for them to hide out from us as opposed to hang out with us as they got older. 
 

We currently have a 4 year old lab, he could tolerate being left home for 10-12 hours, but would hate it. If I suddenly had to go back to work, we would likely get a second dog as a companion. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

It's very normal for 14 yo dogs to sleep a LOT.

At that age I'd be less concerned about him being alone all day, but I would very much make sure he has ample bathroom breaks.

This. As they get older they seem a bit more likely to get UTIs, plus can't hold it as long as in their youth  - same as people 🙂

But yeah, we have a dog about that age, more like 12, and he sleeps almost all day. 

[katilac]

I would continue to be concerned about him being home alone for long days on a regular basis, because not wanting to do much does not equal not wanting company or not getting lonely. 

Is it workable to have regular midday walks and occasional visits to sil? That would go a long way. 

I'd also see whether he seems to like having some background noise when alone. Or just have at least two equally appealing rest areas, one with noise and one without. 

Pet cams are so cheap that I'd probably get one just to reassure myself. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

I would continue to be concerned about him being home alone for long days on a regular basis, because not wanting to do much does not equal not wanting company or not getting lonely. 

Is it workable to have regular midday walks and occasional visits to sil? That would go a long way. 

Yeah someone always comes at some point, unless we're only gone for a few hours.  Usually my SIL, but DH's Dad would come let him out if I asked, or I can pay the neighbor's kids to walk him.   I wouldn't leave him alone for 12 hours without that.  

I haven't sent him to B/SIL's, partially because it's only been a week, and partially because I think he'd think we were sending him back?  

1 hour ago, katilac said:

I'd also see whether he seems to like having some background noise when alone. Or just have at least two equally appealing rest areas, one with noise and one without. 

He's pretty deaf.  

If we go out, he sleeps in front of the door that we went through.  I think he's always done that, but until recently it wasn't so obvious because he'd hear us coming back and be on his feet with his tail wagging.  Now, we have to open the door very carefully so he doesn't get whacked, and then he's up and happy to greet us.  

The same is true if, for example, I'm home alone and go take a shower.  He's lying in front of the bathroom door when I come out. 

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Pet cams are so cheap that I'd probably get one just to reassure myself.