Omicron anecdata?

[Mom_to3]

After a lot of agonizing over timing, we are heading over to CVS right now, hoping that it will be effective before our in person classes start next week (unless we chicken out if the CVS is super crowded). It's Moderna, so even the oldest kid can get the booster yet.

Classes haven't even started yet, and one of my fairly cautious students is sick with covid. Wastewater in the nearby college area jumping up, too 😞

Edited September 2, 2022 by Mom_to3

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

After a lot of agonizing over timing, we are heading over to CVS right now, hoping that it will be effective before our in person classes start next week (unless we chicken out if the CVS is super crowded). It's Moderna, so even the oldest kid can get the booster yet.

Classes haven't even started yet, and one of my fairly cautious students is sick with covid. Wastewater in the nearby college area jumping up, too 😞

Report back on how it goes for you.

[kokotg]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

Do you know if you can choose Moderna or Pfizer? We've had ours done at various CVS locations, and they've not let us choose past the initial series--they ask what you've had so far and then assign you the same one again. 

Responding again because I booked an appointment for my 19 year old now, and his is Moderna, too, even though his 3 previous doses were all Pfizer. So it looks like they just give you whatever they have (I've only seen Moderna so far)

[Ting Tang]

20 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Do you have a link to that article??  I am hoping that it isn't the same for my state.  From what I read it was kind of better to wait further into fall, but if they don't have that many to begin with, maybe it is better to get it asap.

I do not. It was a headline I saw when I typed in "Illinois coronavirus updates" on FB.  I apologize.  My thing is I may not be eligible. 😞  

 

[Mom_to3]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I do not. It was a headline I saw when I typed in "Illinois coronavirus updates" on FB.  I apologize.  My thing is I may not be eligible. 😞  

 

Almost everybody is eligible - except for the younger kids and those who've recently been boosted. CVS slots are wide open here, even in our highly vaxxed communities. This doesn't bode well for this booster campaign (or perhaps simply reflects the lack thereof - it's a footnote in local news coverage that you really have to search for in order to find it). I suppose our administration has really succeeding at erasing covid from our minds.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Mom_to3

[Corraleno]

Slight tangent but seems like this is the best thread for it — the FDA appears to be backing away from restricting the sale of NAC, and multiple brands are now available again on Amazon. They will not agree to reclassifying it as dietary supplement, but say they are leaning towards non-enforcement of restrictions.

NAC has been proven to significantly reduce flu symptoms when taken (prophylactically) on a daily basis, and there is speculation that it may have similar effect against covid, although there is insufficient evidence at this point. But in addition to general effects against respiratory illness (like boosting the immune system and loosening mucus), it has other effects (like reducing the risk of blood clots) that may be especially useful against covid. Waiting until after a patient is severely ill and hospitalized, however, is too late — a peer-reviewed study showed that even megadoses (21g/day) had no effect once patients were already severely ill.

Dr. Roger Seheult of MedCram (pulmonologist, critical care specialist, ICU director, and professor at UC Riverside Med School) says he takes the dosage described in the main study against flu (600 mg 2x/day for 6 months) during flu season.  It's not very expensive (the NOW brand is ~$25 for a 4 month supply at 600 mg 2x/day), is very safe (although contraindicated if you take nitroglycerin), and may be worth keeping in your anti-covid toolkit. And even if it turns out to have limited effect against covid, it's probably worth it just for the protection against flu.

Here is a link to the original paper on the use of NAC against flu, along with the abstract:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9230243/

"N-acetylcysteine (NAC), an analogue and precursor of reduced glutathione, has been in clinical use for more than 30 yrs as a mucolytic drug. It has also been proposed for and/or used in the therapy and/or prevention of several respiratory diseases and of diseases involving an oxidative stress, in general. The objective of the present study was to evaluate the effect of long-term treatment with NAC on influenza and influenza-like episodes. A total of 262 subjects of both sexes (78% > or = 65 yrs, and 62% suffering from nonrespiratory chronic degenerative diseases) were enrolled in a randomized, double-blind trial involving 20 Italian Centres. They were randomized to receive either placebo or NAC tablets (600 mg) twice daily for 6 months. Patients suffering from chronic respiratory diseases were not eligible, to avoid possible confounding by an effect of NAC on respiratory symptoms. NAC treatment was well tolerated and resulted in a significant decrease in the frequency of influenza-like episodes, severity, and length of time confined to bed. Both local and systemic symptoms were sharply and significantly reduced in the NAC group. Frequency of seroconversion towards A/H1N1 Singapore 6/86 influenza virus was similar in the two groups, but only 25% of virus-infected subjects under NAC treatment developed a symptomatic form, versus 79% in the placebo group. Evaluation of cell-mediated immunity showed a progressive, significant shift from anergy to normoergy following NAC treatment. Administration of N-acetylcysteine during the winter, thus, appears to provide a significant attenuation of influenza and influenza-like episodes, especially in elderly high-risk individuals. N-acetylcysteine did not prevent A/H1N1 virus influenza infection but significantly reduced the incidence of clinically apparent disease."

Edited September 3, 2022 by Corraleno

[Laura Corin]

Husband is due for his Covid/flu booster on Monday.  He's older than I  - I'm still waiting for my blue envelope invitation.  If I don't get in for NHS Covid/flu jab before September 26, I have a private flu jab booked and will  take the Covid one when I'm called. 

The students arrive on Monday and I expect to be the only member of staff masking. Many of the students in the cohort I administer are from China, which increases the likelihood that some will mask.

[kokotg]

Well, got to CVS for my appointment only to find out they don't actually have the shots yet and "corporate jumped the gun." Oh well. I have a Pfizer appointment booked at a Walgreens for my 16 year old Wednesday....they only have Pfizer, and I'm trying to decide if I should book appointments for us grown ups, too, or hold out for Moderna. Maybe I'll book Pfizer appointments and then keep looking and cancel if I can find Moderna. Hard to know what to do with the new boosters since we don't really have much information on how effective either brand will be--at least the new part of it.

[KSera]

20 minutes ago, kokotg said:

Hard to know what to do with the new boosters since we don't really have much information on how effective either brand will be--at least the new part of it.

This is the problem I'm having as well. Very difficult to decide without that data, but I don't want to wait for it to be available because I may be exposed before then. Sorry they didn't actually have it.

[Mom_to3]

2 hours ago, kokotg said:

Well, got to CVS for my appointment only to find out they don't actually have the shots yet and "corporate jumped the gun." Oh well. I have a Pfizer appointment booked at a Walgreens for my 16 year old Wednesday....they only have Pfizer, and I'm trying to decide if I should book appointments for us grown ups, too, or hold out for Moderna. Maybe I'll book Pfizer appointments and then keep looking and cancel if I can find Moderna. Hard to know what to do with the new boosters since we don't really have much information on how effective either brand will be--at least the new part of it.

Odd. I actually called the cvs pharmacy before we went to make sure they had the new booster in stock...Perhaps call another cvs - they were very friendly even though they must hate the additional work. Here I would still have been able to book an appointment for 10pm at 8pm.

 

[KSera]

21 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

Odd. I actually called the cvs pharmacy before we went to make sure they had the new booster in stock...Perhaps call another cvs - they were very friendly even though they must hate the additional work. Here I would still have been able to book an appointment for 10pm at 8pm.

 

Were you actually able to get one? Everything I see says “in the next few days.”

[kokotg]

1 hour ago, Mom_to3 said:

Odd. I actually called the cvs pharmacy before we went to make sure they had the new booster in stock...Perhaps call another cvs - they were very friendly even though they must hate the additional work. Here I would still have been able to book an appointment for 10pm at 8pm.

 

We tried another one, and they told us they had JUST gotten their shipment in, but it takes 12 hours (or 24?) to thaw them, so no shots until tomorrow. But I also made an appointment in Nashville for my son who's away at college, and we called to make sure, and they say they have them in stock. So it's just a crapshoot right now I guess. I made an appointment for Wednesday for us, and I'm hoping/assuming everyone should have them by then. 

[kokotg]

My 19 year old just got one at a CVS in Nashville. I asked if he got a new card (he didn't have his with him, but there's no room for more on it anyway), and he said no. So maybe we're done with cards? Anyway, he's my kid who's majoring in clarinet performance, so really no way to avoid a ton of maskless exposure (uhh, not that his school is making any attempt at that anyway), so I'm glad that's done. 

[Mom_to3]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:58 PM, mommyoffive said:

Report back on how it goes for you.

Just checking in, Both DH and I had Moderna at CVS on Friday. For me, it was as usual a non-event - a very mildly elevated temperature and discomfort for 24 hours (not even close to a fever), perhaps a few yawns, a few mins of mild headache (I kind of was looking for symptoms). For DH, it was less bad than the last 3 shots after his first dose, but still not great (fatigue, some digestive discomfort, some chills, some heart racing and insomnia the night after the shot etc.); he had to take a nap yesterday, but otherwise did manage to do keep up with his daily activities (which was not the case with some of the earlier Moderna shots, and a bit better than with his last Pfizer booster). For both of us, the arm was much less sore than after the prior shots (and in my case no redness unlike the prior shots). We both seem to be back to normal now.

I do wonder what accounts for the different reactions to the shot, and wish I knew more about this, especially in terms of immune response to the vaccination. They should know by now.

[mommyoffive]

To Mask, or Not to Mask: Theaters and Concert Halls Face a Dilemma (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

U.S. Plans Shift to Annual Covid Shots (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

What to know about 'original antigenic sin' and fall COVID boosters (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

Scientists find COVID-19 antibodies that can make boosters unnecessary (msn.com)

 

Mystery as to why new COVID variants have stalled in growth (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

One shot per year? We really need to step up our game then (substack.com)

[BeachGal]

Two mucosal (nasal/oral) vaccines approved in China and India this week. Iran and Russia have nasal vaccines as well. Quite a few are in development throughout the world. These will be interesting to watch.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02851-0

China and India approve nasal COVID vaccines — are they a game changer?

Scientists hope the immunizations, delivered through the nose or mouth, will prevent even mild cases of illness.

Two needle-free COVID-19 vaccines that are delivered through the nose or mouth have been approved for use in China and India. China’s new vaccine, announced on Sunday, is inhaled through the nose and mouth as an aerosolized mist, and India’s, announced on Tuesday, is administered as drops in the nose.

These mucosal vaccines target thin mucous membranes that line the nose, mouth and lungs. By prompting immune responses where SARS-CoV-2 first enters the body, mucosal vaccines could, in theory, prevent even mild cases of illness and block transmission to other people — something COVID-19 shots have been unable to do. Vaccines that produce sterilizing immunity would be game changing for the pandemic.

“These approvals validate the need for mucosal vaccines,” says Marty Moore, co-founder of Meissa Vaccines in Redwood City, California, which is developing a COVID-19 immunization that is delivered through the nose. “That’s the direction we need to go globally, and the United States needs to catch up.”

The regulatory nods from China and India bring the number of approved COVID-19 mucosal vaccines in the world to four, including one already approved in Iran and another in Russia. More than 100 mucosal vaccines against the disease are in development globally, and about 20 have reached clinical trials in humans, according to Airfinity, a health-analytics company in London. Delivery methods include sprays, drops, aerosols and pills.

New arrivals

China’s inhaled vaccine, developed by CanSino Biologics in Tianjin, contains the same ingredients as the company’s COVID-19 shot that is already available in the country. A device called a nebulizer turns the liquid vaccine into an aerosol spray that is inhaled. China’s health department and National Medical Products Administration approved the vaccine to be used as a booster dose.

India’s vaccine, developed by Bharat Biotech in Hyderabad, is approved as a two-dose primary inoculation, rather than a booster.

Both companies have produced ‘viral vector’ vaccines that use a harmless adenovirus to deliver SARS-CoV-2 genetic material into host cells. Neither company has published phase III clinical trial data, but both say they have completed those studies.

Data from a phase II trial of CanSino’s inhaled vaccine found that, when given as a booster, the vaccine raised blood serum antibody levels significantly more than did a boost from an injection. This suggests that the inhaled vaccine will offer protection that is as good as, or better than, that provided by the shot.

Similarly, Bharat compared its intranasal vaccine to Covaxin, a COVID-19 jab available in India, by measuring antibody levels in the blood. The company did not release results of this study, but deemed the trial “successful”.

Exactly how successful these vaccines will be is unclear. Expecting a vaccine to stop transmission of a virus or prevent even mild illness — achieving what is called sterilizing immunity — is a high bar. Bharat and CanSino won’t know whether their vaccines can achieve this until they have conducted further efficacy studies.

Scant data is available on the efficacy of the two other mucosal COVID-19 vaccines. Iran approved a COVID-19 vaccine administered as a nasal spray and made by Razi Vaccine and Serum Research Institute in Karaj, in October 2021. More than 5000 doses have been delivered to the public. And Russia’s health ministry is reported to have approved an intranasal spray version of Sputnik V, the country’s injected COVID-19 vaccine.

Mucosal vaccines have been developed for other diseases, including poliovirus, influenza and cholera. Most of these vaccines are taken orally, and one, against flu, is administered through the nose.

 

[mommyoffive]

Is COVID-19 winding down? Scientists say no. Here's why (wisn.com)

[whitestavern]

6 hours ago, BeachGal said:

Two mucosal (nasal/oral) vaccines approved in China and India this week. Iran and Russia have nasal vaccines as well. Quite a few are in development throughout the world. These will be interesting to watch.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02851-0

China and India approve nasal COVID vaccines — are they a game changer?

Scientists hope the immunizations, delivered through the nose or mouth, will prevent even mild cases of illness.

Two needle-free COVID-19 vaccines that are delivered through the nose or mouth have been approved for use in China and India. China’s new vaccine, announced on Sunday, is inhaled through the nose and mouth as an aerosolized mist, and India’s, announced on Tuesday, is administered as drops in the nose.

These mucosal vaccines target thin mucous membranes that line the nose, mouth and lungs. By prompting immune responses where SARS-CoV-2 first enters the body, mucosal vaccines could, in theory, prevent even mild cases of illness and block transmission to other people — something COVID-19 shots have been unable to do. Vaccines that produce sterilizing immunity would be game changing for the pandemic.

“These approvals validate the need for mucosal vaccines,” says Marty Moore, co-founder of Meissa Vaccines in Redwood City, California, which is developing a COVID-19 immunization that is delivered through the nose. “That’s the direction we need to go globally, and the United States needs to catch up.”

The regulatory nods from China and India bring the number of approved COVID-19 mucosal vaccines in the world to four, including one already approved in Iran and another in Russia. More than 100 mucosal vaccines against the disease are in development globally, and about 20 have reached clinical trials in humans, according to Airfinity, a health-analytics company in London. Delivery methods include sprays, drops, aerosols and pills.

New arrivals

China’s inhaled vaccine, developed by CanSino Biologics in Tianjin, contains the same ingredients as the company’s COVID-19 shot that is already available in the country. A device called a nebulizer turns the liquid vaccine into an aerosol spray that is inhaled. China’s health department and National Medical Products Administration approved the vaccine to be used as a booster dose.

India’s vaccine, developed by Bharat Biotech in Hyderabad, is approved as a two-dose primary inoculation, rather than a booster.

Both companies have produced ‘viral vector’ vaccines that use a harmless adenovirus to deliver SARS-CoV-2 genetic material into host cells. Neither company has published phase III clinical trial data, but both say they have completed those studies.

Data from a phase II trial of CanSino’s inhaled vaccine found that, when given as a booster, the vaccine raised blood serum antibody levels significantly more than did a boost from an injection. This suggests that the inhaled vaccine will offer protection that is as good as, or better than, that provided by the shot.

Similarly, Bharat compared its intranasal vaccine to Covaxin, a COVID-19 jab available in India, by measuring antibody levels in the blood. The company did not release results of this study, but deemed the trial “successful”.

Exactly how successful these vaccines will be is unclear. Expecting a vaccine to stop transmission of a virus or prevent even mild illness — achieving what is called sterilizing immunity — is a high bar. Bharat and CanSino won’t know whether their vaccines can achieve this until they have conducted further efficacy studies.

Scant data is available on the efficacy of the two other mucosal COVID-19 vaccines. Iran approved a COVID-19 vaccine administered as a nasal spray and made by Razi Vaccine and Serum Research Institute in Karaj, in October 2021. More than 5000 doses have been delivered to the public. And Russia’s health ministry is reported to have approved an intranasal spray version of Sputnik V, the country’s injected COVID-19 vaccine.

Mucosal vaccines have been developed for other diseases, including poliovirus, influenza and cholera. Most of these vaccines are taken orally, and one, against flu, is administered through the nose.

 

Unfortunately Pfizer is not helping scientists that are trying to develop nasal and other vaccines  

https://www.statnews.com/2022/09/06/pfizer-covid-vaccines-researchers-next-gen-studies/

[KSera]

On 9/6/2022 at 11:34 AM, mommyoffive said:

U.S. Plans Shift to Annual Covid Shots (msn.com)

I didn't see addressed in the article how this works for people who haven't had a primary series. Presumably, they will still need to get the primary series and then they can start having just a booster yearly? Kids have to do two flu shots the first time they get one, so I guess it's not unheard of to have a strategy like that.

5 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Unfortunately Pfizer is not helping scientists that are trying to develop nasal and other vaccines  

https://www.statnews.com/2022/09/06/pfizer-covid-vaccines-researchers-next-gen-studies/

I hate this. I know it's a business, and that's what they do, but I can't help but feel like in some cases, concern for humanity and just doing the right thing should kick in. (Of course, the general public isn't tending to do that either, so...)

[BeachGal]

15 hours ago, KSera said:

I didn't see addressed in the article how this works for people who haven't had a primary series. Presumably, they will still need to get the primary series and then they can start having just a booster yearly? Kids have to do two flu shots the first time they get one, so I guess it's not unheard of to have a strategy like that.

I hate this. I know it's a business, and that's what they do, but I can't help but feel like in some cases, concern for humanity and just doing the right thing should kick in. (Of course, the general public isn't tending to do that either, so...)

From what I’ve been reading, yes, the unvaccinated in the US will get the primary series because it does lead to a pretty good, broad overall immune response and also, there is more data.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/downloads/CDC-Fall-Vaccination-Operational-Planning-Guide.pdf

Quote

The bivalent COVID-19 vaccine will be administered as a single booster dose to those who previously completed a primary series of COVID-19 vaccine. It is anticipated that bivalent COVID-19 vaccine booster doses may initially be authorized for people ages 12 years and older (Pfizer-BioNTech) and for people ages 18 years and older (Moderna), followed by younger pediatric age groups. It is also anticipated that the bivalent COVID-19 vaccines will only be authorized as a single dose in people who have completed a primary vaccination series but would not vary by number or type of prior booster doses received.

For anyone who has not had the primary series but wants it, something to bear in mind:

Quote

It is expected that many COVID-19 vaccination providers will offer bivalent booster doses, but not all providers are expected to continue carrying primary series COVID-19 vaccines. 

 

If anyone wants to look into vaccine development, the RAPS website lists which ones are in what phase. There are other nasal vaccines. My understanding is that we are not rushing them in the US because the mrna vaccines are quite good and do elicit a decent mucosal response, iirc. However, I hope we will have a nasal vaccine here in the US, preferably soon. The problem with them in the past was durability but maybe that has been ironed out. I don’t know, though.

https://www.raps.org/news-and-articles/news-articles/2020/3/covid-19-vaccine-tracker

Edited September 8, 2022 by BeachGal
added cdc link and info

[mommyoffive]

Climate change may increase pandemics like COVID. Here's why (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

Return to school is driving up COVID-19 cases in kids, but there are more tools to keep them safe (wisn.com)

New cases reported among children in the last week of August were 14% higher than they were two weeks earlier, according to data tracked by the American Academy of Pediatrics. 

About 4 out of 5 children in the U.S. have had COVID-19 at some point, according to estimates from the CDC that are based on the presence of antibodies in blood samples. This is a significant jump from the end of 2021, when 45% of children were estimated to have had COVID-19.

[mommyoffive]

400 Americans are dying each day. We cannot accept this reality. (substack.com)

 

We are losing ~400 Americans a day. In the last 7 days, we have lost 2,299 people. During August 2022 alone, we lost 15,284 Americans to COVID-19.

This means COVID-19 remains the third leading cause of death in our repertoire of threats. And it’s largely preventable. In the U.S., death rates are not back to pre-pandemic times; excess deaths are still 10% above “expected.” This is changing our average life expectancy. In fact, the U.S. experienced the sharpest two-year decline in life expectancy in nearly 100 years.

 

It’s abundantly clear the majority of deaths continue to be among the unvaccinated (20% of Americans are still without even one dose).

 

In addition, there is a clear dose response with vaccines: the more vaccine doses one has, the more that person is protected from death. According to the CDC, vaccinated people with one booster had 3 times the risk of dying compared to people vaccinated with two boosters.

We also see this phenomenon from data in Canada from the COVID-19 Hazard Index. For every 10 people over the age of 80 who are infected, 1 dies. The odds decrease with more doses. The population-level benefit is true across every age group.

 

Age

Age continues to the be the strongest predictor of death. Specifically, unvaccinated 65+ year olds have, by far, the highest rates of death.

 

Other patterns

Because of death’s strong relationship with vaccination rates (and age and comorbidities), we continue to see other interesting relationships emerge across the States.

Regional patterns continue to shift. For example, Florida just passed New York in cumulative deaths. This is a big milestone given NYC’s huge death toll in early 2020.

Edited September 13, 2022 by mommyoffive

[bookbard]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Florida just passed New York in cumulative deaths. This is a big milestone given NYC’s huge death toll in early 2020.

How terribly sad. 

[Laura Corin]

The semester at the University where I work started yesterday. So far, almost 10 percent of the students I administer have tested positive - this is only voluntary symptomatic testing. There was a welcome party indoors last week, which I did not attend...

[KeriJ]

Just adding to the anecdata. I have a family member who is fully vaccinated and boosted, who is now finishing up her 4th bout with Covid. 🤷‍♀️

[Lawyer&Mom]

1 hour ago, KeriJ said:

Just adding to the anecdata. I have a family member who is fully vaccinated and boosted, who is now finishing up her 4th bout with Covid. 🤷‍♀️

I’m fully vaccinated and boosted.  Still wear masks everywhere, don’t eat in restaurants, etc.   My second and third bouts of COVID were only 79 days apart…. (I think dropping masks was a huge mistake.)

[bookbard]

My niece is positive to covid for the second time - she tested negative from the last bout just under a month ago. She's vaccinated with 3 doses, but the 4th isn't allowed for her age, and I doubt she takes any precautions (masks etc). She works in a busy restaurant.

[mommyoffive]

WHO: COVID end 'in sight,' deaths at lowest since March 2020 (msn.com)

 

Americans refuse to learn the one lesson that could help curb Covid (msn.com)

Edited September 14, 2022 by mommyoffive

[Jean in Newcastle]

16 hours ago, KeriJ said:

Just adding to the anecdata. I have a family member who is fully vaccinated and boosted, who is now finishing up her 4th bout with Covid. 🤷‍♀️

Does she mask?  Not asking in any accusatory way.  I am just wondering if some people are relying only on the vaccines and boosters.  My understanding is that they don't actually keep you from getting Covid - they just lessen the effects.  Which is good but of course isn't going to keep people from getting Covid again and again. 

[Malory]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Does she mask?  Not asking in any accusatory way.  I am just wondering if some people are relying only on the vaccines and boosters.  My understanding is that they don't actually keep you from getting Covid - they just lessen the effects.  Which is good but of course isn't going to keep people from getting Covid again and again. 

Would that help much though? If the post above by @Lawyer&Mom is any indication, it seems to me people will get it no matter what they do. 

[KSera]

27 minutes ago, Malory said:

Would that help much though? If the post above by @Lawyer&Mom is any indication, it seems to me people will get it no matter what they do. 

It depends. A good mask that fits well clearly helps. A loose cloth mask? That will help protect other people from some of the germs coming from the wearer, but isn't going to do much for the person wearing it. A Happy  Mask or Enro? Eh, it should decrease the risk, but likely not enough for these current variants. A well-fitted KF94? That's going to provide a lot of protection to the wearer. A sealed N95? The wearer is very unlikely to catch covid.

But yes, it's super hard to avoid without taking precautions. At least those who are fully vaccinated won't have the much higher risk of serious illness and death that the unvaccinated have.

[Jean in Newcastle]

35 minutes ago, Malory said:

Would that help much though? If the post above by @Lawyer&Mom is any indication, it seems to me people will get it no matter what they do. 

Would it help?  Absolutely. As K’sera says, the fit also matters. But with masking plus boosters you have at least less viral load as well as less hospitalization etc. 

[bookbard]

39 minutes ago, Malory said:

Would that help much though? If the post above by @Lawyer&Mom is any indication, it seems to me people will get it no matter what they do. 

Yes, masking does help. There was a good study recently of nursing staff who masked vs those who didn't, and those who masked were far less likely to get covid. And these are people who deal with people with covid all the time. I don't have time to source the link now, but you can search online.

I am one of the very few people I know who have never had covid, and I mask all day at work and any time I'm indoors (eg shops). I have been exposed to people with covid at work and haven't caught covid. I say no to outings that are indoors (eg parties, going to a restaurant); I'm clear about why, and I suggest an outdoor alternative. I am hoping very much for a permanent covid solution such as a good nasal vaccine, so I'm happy to take precautions until that occurs.

[kokotg]

59 minutes ago, Malory said:

Would that help much though? If the post above by @Lawyer&Mom is any indication, it seems to me people will get it no matter what they do. 

Pretty much every study I've seen that looks at real life situations says that masking helps. Here's a recent one from Massachusetts: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.08.09.22278385v1  

Anecdotally, the only one in my immediate family who's had covid is my oldest son, who got it as soon as he started his study abroad program last winter, which involved lots of unmasked social outings. My husband is a high school teacher who's been teaching in person since fall of 2020; for much of that time he's had close contact notifications multiple times a week. He's one of the only teachers who's masked with a good mask the whole time whether required or not, and he's stayed well. We all mask indoors and have mostly avoided inside restaurants (with a few exceptions when numbers were low). On the other hand, two of my kids play wind instruments, and they've been doing that in person again for awhile now (with masks when not playing). Some of it is luck, but some of it is that we're more careful than most people are. I'll be surprised if the luck doesn't run out at some point....but if I can get covid once instead of 3 or 4 times, then I'll take that (and the lower risk of serious and/or long term complications that come with every case of covid). 

[catz]

1 hour ago, Malory said:

Would that help much though? If the post above by @Lawyer&Mom is any indication, it seems to me people will get it no matter what they do. 

My kid has had known exposures probably a couple dozen times in closed rooms wearing a KN95 and has used dozens of tests and has never had covid.  Masking isn't perfect, but I'm pretty sold that if you're consistent it works pretty well.  

[kbutton]

[BeachGal]

23 hours ago, KeriJ said:

Just adding to the anecdata. I have a family member who is fully vaccinated and boosted, who is now finishing up her 4th bout with Covid. 🤷‍♀️

Something came out a few months ago that explained how in some people (not all) the covid virus can hitch a ride into t cells via a particular molecule which can lead to t cell dysregulation. That could explain why some people are developing multiple infections. If I find the paper, I’ll link it.

[Spryte]

I wear a well fitting N95 indoors. Kids and DH use well fitted, good masks as well — DH and DS wear N95s, DD wears KN94/95, in a kid’s size. DH travels internationally regularly, masked. He dined outdoors while traveling, or stepped outside to drink coffee, eat. We all do outdoor activities unmasked m, including dining and community/family events, travel, exhibits. We mask for indoor events and museums, etc. We are not hermits, we just mask consistently.

Immune issues here, for DS and me, and fortunately our immediate family has rallied around us, because our community has very little masking. We just go about our lives as the lone maskers, and we make sure to dine outside.

We are the only people I know personally who have not had Covid. Pretty sure we will get it at some point, but I feel confident that our diligent masking practices have helped us dodge it as long as we have.

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Spryte

[SHP]

43 minutes ago, Spryte said:

I wear a well fitting N95 indoors. Kids and DH use well fitted, good masks as well — DH and DS wear N95s, DD wears KN94/95, in a kid’s size. DH travels internationally regularly, masked. He dined outdoors while traveling, or stepped outside to drink coffee, eat. We all do outdoor activities unmasked m, including dining and community/family events, travel, exhibits. We mask for indoor events and museums, etc. We are not hermits, we just mask consistently.

Immune issues here, for DS and me, and fortunately our immediate family has rallied around us, because our community has very little masking. We just go about our lives as the lone maskers, and we make sure to dine outside.

We are the only people I know personally who have not had Covid. Pretty sure we will get it at some point, but I feel confident that our diligent masking practices have helped us dodge it as long as we have.

 

 

 

This. Though we do mask outside in congested areas. No covid here

[KeriJ]

I know the right kind of masks work, and we wore them faithfully the first year and a half. But to be fair, dh hasn't masked in a long time. He has been exposed to Covid numerous times, especially as it went through our house twice, and he has never yet gotten it. Again,  just anecdotal,  but that's what this thread was.

Edited September 15, 2022 by KeriJ

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, KeriJ said:

I know the right kind of masks work, and we wore them faithfully the first year and a half. But to be fair, dh hasn't masked in a long time. He has been exposed to Covid numerous times, especially as it went through our house twice, and he has never yet gotten it. Again,  just anecdotal,  but that's what this thread was.

I know of family members who didn't isolate when others in the family had covid and they never got it.  It's so bizarre!  Ds1 had covid and didn't isolate from his gf at all and she didn't get it from him.  They live and work together in a small apartment and continued sharing the bathroom and bed.  Yet others are super careful and still get sick.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, KeriJ said:

I know the right kind of masks work, and we wore them faithfully the first year and a half. But to be fair, dh hasn't masked in a long time. He has been exposed to Covid numerous times, especially as it went through our house twice, and he has never yet gotten it. Again,  just anecdotal,  but that's what this thread was.

?  It's not just anecdotal that some people seem to have a natural immunity.  Scientists are trying to figure out why.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-03-30/are-some-people-super-immune-to-covid

But some people having a natural immunity doesn't discount that many others don't.  And it doesn't discount that vaccines and boosters do not keep you from getting Covid.    Thus the question about whether the boosted person was still masking.  Because the fact that good quality masks are helpful is also not just anecdotal. 

Anecdotes do not replace science.  And they don't explain science.  (Though sometimes science can explain the anecdotes.)  Science doesn't have all the answers yet on what is still a new illness that continues to change (from a broad perspective).  But they are working on it and we really have no reason to not follow mitigation advice based on what they have found so far. 

[caayenne]

We are all still masking for nearly every indoor thing we do. DH masks while teaching, but not while coaching tennis (outdoor only). DS 20 masks for college classes and both choirs he's in. DS 17 wears his mask to dual enrollment classes and choir, but not for musical theater. I wear my mask for pretty much everything! 😊

We have worn Sonovia masks (antiviral) since the beginning of the pandemic. We added Sanotize spray (nitric oxide nasal spray from Israel) to our arsenal about a year ago. We use it any time one of us has to be unmasked (musical theater, DS 20 eating out with friends) or we're around large numbers of unmasked people (DH uses it after teaching, we all use it after choir rehearsals and concerts). We also take a boatload of Vitamin D & C, and DS 17 and I both take NAC because of autoimmune issues. And we are all vaccinated and boosted.

I believe that we've managed to avoid Covid so far (knock on wood!) because of all of these layers of protection combined, but if I was forced to choose just one, I'd choose masks. It's a drag to be the only ones masking at church or school or even the grocery store, but with our health issues, we just aren't willing to go back to being exposed to viruses all the time. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by caayenne

[mommyoffive]

11 minutes ago, caayenne said:

We are all still masking for nearly every indoor thing we do. DH masks while teaching, but not while coaching tennis (outdoor only). DS 20 masks for college classes and both choirs he's in. DS 17 wears his mask to dual enrollment classes and choir, but not for musical theater. I wear my mask for pretty much everything! 😊

We have worn Sonovia masks (antiviral) since the beginning of the pandemic. We added Sanotize spray (nitric oxide nasal spray from Israel) to our arsenal about a year ago. We use it any time any of us has to be unmasked (musical theater, DS 20 eating out with friends) or we're around large numbers of unmasked people (DH uses it after teaching, we all use it after choir rehearsals and concerts). We also take a boatload of Vitamin D & C, and DS 17 and I both take NAC because of autoimmune issues. And we are all vaccinated and boosted.

I believe that we've managed to avoid Covid so far (knock on wood!) because of all of these layers of protection combined, but if I was forced to choose just one, I'd choose masks. It's a drag to be the only ones masking at church or school or even the grocery store, but with our health issues, we just aren't willing to go back to being exposed to viruses all the time. 

where do you buy this?

[caayenne]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

where do you buy this?

I first bought it on ebay, but when we received our first shipment, I realized that our seller had their own site. Shipping is free, and we usually get ours within 4 days. buyenov.com

It's pricey (around $50 per 30 day supply bottle), but we wipe the bottles with alcohol in between uses so that we can share. My husband and I share one, and DSs share the other. 

The studies on the nitric oxide spray are pretty remarkable. I first read about it here on the forums, and we decided to try it when my husband's school got rid of their mask mandate. My older son used it twice a day during his zoo internship this summer, since he had to eat indoors with elementary-aged children every day. He never caught Covid (or anything else), and he knows for sure that there were multiple confirmed cases amongst the kids and staff.

It's supposedly coming out in the US soon, but they've been saying that for a while now, so 🤷‍♀️.

Edited September 15, 2022 by caayenne