Family Secrets

[DawnM]

UGH, my mom's family is full of them.   I have found out more and more about her extended family through the past few years, and tonight my dad told me a doozy.   I don't mind knowing, but apparently the person took this secret to her grave and her husband (still living) and children don't know.

 

SECRETS don't go away if they aren't told......

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, DawnM said:

UGH, my mom's family is full of them.   I have found out more and more about her extended family through the past few years, and tonight my dad told me a doozy.   I don't mind knowing, but apparently the person took this secret to her grave and her husband (still living) and children don't know.

 

SECRETS don't go away if they aren't told......

I am not a fan of secrets.,it is the foundation of every tragedy ever told.  

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am not a fan of secrets.,it is the foundation of every tragedy ever told.  

right?

[MercyA]

So are you going to tell us what it is? 🙂 

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, DawnM said:

right?

My mom was huge on truth telling.  And then I married and his family was all about secrets.  38 years after I married him and 12 years after we divorced and secrets from both sides of his family are still coming out.  I believe it fractures families and causes so much trust issues.  
 

Oddly, though, through no fault of her own…my mom, at age 73 discovered a big secret. Her dad turned out to not be her bio dad.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Scarlett

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

My mom was huge on truth telling.  And then I married and his family was all about secrets.  38 years after I married him and 12 years after we divorced and secrets from both sides of his family are still coming out.  I believe it fractures families and causes so much trust issues.  
 

Oddly, though, through. through no fault of her own…my mom, at age 83 discovered a big secret. Her dad turned out to not be her bio dad.

didn't you discover a sister too?

[Scarlett]

Just now, DawnM said:

didn't you discover a sister too?

No.  I have always known who my father was and that I had a sister.  Part of my mom truth telling….she never kept the facts from me.  My sister on the other hand was not told about me until she was 11 1/2 and met me for the first time.  
 

So spill girl…..what’s the scoop. 

[theelfqueen]

I know a huge ass family secret. As a teenager I was snooping where I should not have been and discovered documentation of a thing. It is not my thing to tell and no one at all knows that I know. I have never breathed a word to anyone. It's a strange burden. If the relevant elders die without revealing it I might then share it with another person who is potentially impacted by it. But not before then. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, theelfqueen said:

I know a huge ass family secret. As a teenager I was snooping where I should not have been and discovered documentation of a thing. It is not my thing to tell and no one at all knows that I know. I have never breathed a word to anyone. It's a strange burden. If the relevant elders die without revealing it I might then share it with another person who is potentially impacted by it. But not before then. 

Why?  Why would You keep such a secret?

I don’t keep secrets like that.  

[theelfqueen]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Why?  Why would You keep such a secret?

I don’t keep secrets like that.  

It's not mine to tell. It's not my business and it would be disrespectful to the elders involved who surely have their own reasons for keeping mum. I believe people have a right to privacy. I obtained the secret by invading that privacy.

[Scarlett]

19 minutes ago, theelfqueen said:

It's not mine to tell. It's not my business and it would be disrespectful to the elders involved who surely have their own reasons for keeping mum. I believe people have a right to privacy. I obtained the secret by invading that privacy.

Well usually these secrets involve paternity or maternity.  I disagree strongly that that is only the orders secret. 

[Scarlett]

19 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

There’s a maybe-fine line between keeping secrets and keeping trust, kwim? I imagine every family has things they prudently choose to keep quiet. 
 

When it involves genetics and stuff that affect who’s actually related to whom and what one’s medical history might actually be… well that’s big deal kind of info and to me is the sort of info that really should be disclosed at the proper time. Not just be left to be discovered by accident. 
 

There are some things about family (on both my side and dh’s) that I am super curious about, but haven’t gotten the nerve to ask about. Things that I have learned about my own parents, well, some things I just wish I never knew. 
 

Now I’m wondering if there’s anything I need to tell my own kids about so they won’t be shocked? I really don’t think so. I’m kind of boring. 😂

So @DawnMthe big question is, are you now obligated to keep the secret? Or is the cat officially out of the bag?

Lol…I was thinking about this.  Some things are t really secret but I don’t talk about…..I wonder if my son would be shocked about some things.  

[gardenmom5]

59 minutes ago, DawnM said:

UGH, my mom's family is full of them.   I have found out more and more about her extended family through the past few years, and tonight my dad told me a doozy.   I don't mind knowing, but apparently the person took this secret to her grave and her husband (still living) and children don't know.

 

SECRETS don't go away if they aren't told......

And then the genealogist come along and dig them up . . . . I've found some doozies too.

[HeartString]

38 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Lol…I was thinking about this.  Some things are t really secret but I don’t talk about…..I wonder if my son would be shocked about some things.  

There are things like that in my family.  Some things are well known, but just not pleasant to discuss so the younger ones end up Not being aware.  It’s not really a secret, but by the time the youngest ones are old enough to be a part of those conversations  everyone with knowledge has moved on to other topics.  

[LMD]

Oh we've got secrets. One came out when doing the seating for my wedding. I would've been happy to go my whole life without knowing that one... 😟

[Carrie12345]

4 hours ago, HeartString said:

There are things like that in my family.  Some things are well known, but just not pleasant to discuss so the younger ones end up Not being aware.  It’s not really a secret, but by the time the youngest ones are old enough to be a part of those conversations  everyone with knowledge has moved on to other topics.  

Same. I learned two things as a young adult that the generation above me obviously knew, but there was no reason or easy opening for telling me when I was younger. Though, the one and only time my grandmother mentioned directly to me the baby she lost to pneumonia kind of explained why she was CONSTANTLY on me for not covering my babies’ feet and heads. It had to have been tearing her up inside by then, with my 3rd kid!

[DawnM]

A baby was born and given up for adoption back in the mid 60s.    she never even told her husband about it.   Kind of wish I didn't know since it isn't out in the open.

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by DawnM

[DawnM]

8 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

And then the genealogist come along and dig them up . . . . I've found some doozies too.

I just keep saying, "Be sure your sins will find you out."

My mom's first husband got another woman pregnant while they were married.   they divorced soon after.   I knew about the divorce, but recently found out about the other baby.

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by DawnM

[Janeway]

I think we are allowed to have privacy. I do not think I have an obligation to tell every single traumatic thing in my life. Where does the "tell all" end? I mean, how do you separate "secrets" from "tell all" and from someone's right to privacy and tell their own story? I know of cases of "secrets" in the family where I know I do not know the story, but I also know it is none of my business.

 

For what it is worth..I would do much better to be much more discrete with my life details.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Janeway

[klmama]

33 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I think we are allowed to have privacy. I do not think I have an obligation to tell every single traumatic thing in my life. Where does the "tell all" end? I mean, how do you separate "secrets" from "tell all" and from someone's right to privacy and tell their own story? I know of cases of "secrets" in the family where I know I do not know the story, but I also know it is none of my business.

This.  Some things are nobody else's business.  There are family things we don't tell our minor dc, but do once they reach adulthood.  There are other family things we don't tell our adult dc, because those things are none of their business.  Many of them really aren't our business, either, even if we know about them.  

Edited July 4, 2021 by klmama

[J-rap]

I don't think all secrets need to be told, and I think sometimes, it can do even more harm than good to tell it.  

There was a major secret kept from my dad all his life.  It began when he was 8, and he is now 93.  It's something that would have crushed him and haunted him his entire life.  It's a long story how I know the secret and my dad doesn't!  But I'd say that in this situation, it was a wise idea to keep it from him.

[Scarlett]

I have actually given this a lot of thought……and I do agree people have a right to privacy and a right to have or not have relationships with whomever they choose.  But when a baby is a result of that secret it is no longer about just you or your choices.  I can’t tell you how many stories I have read on the ancestry dna sight of adoptees who find their birth parent and birth parent ‘orders’ them  to not look up any of the siblings or the father or any other family.  Sorry, but my dna is my dna and I can track down whomever I please and attempt a relationship.  
 

In fact there is one in my family right now.  My mom had a high match to a girl I will call C.  Due to the girls age and location and how high the match was mom was fairly confident the girl was a granddaughter of moms brother who had two sons.  This brother also has a step son J who we have always been close to but mom knew it wasn’t his child of course.  Mom asked her nephew B, ‘do you think this is possible?’ He said ‘oh probably, we (he and his brother) were both pretty wild back in the day.’ 
 

This is so complicated not sure if I can tell it.  Lol….mom attempted contact of this girl through  ancestry and got no response……a year passes and suddenly the girl contacts mom.  She apologized for not responding sooner, but told mom she had found her birth mom and was completely rejected and told to not attempt contact of anyone else in the family.  It crushed C so badly she did not try to locate her birth father for that entire year, but she said she was feeling better and wanted to try again.  So Mom offers her assistance and the girl screenshots  her first page of matches and mom about fell out of her chair when the birth mother shows to be J (moms step nephew) first wife ( let’s call her Sugar). 
 

Sorry I have to go, I will finish this story later.  

Edited July 4, 2021 by Scarlett

[DawnM]

12 minutes ago, J-rap said:

I don't think all secrets need to be told, and I think sometimes, it can do even more harm than good to tell it.  

There was a major secret kept from my dad all his life.  It began when he was 8, and he is now 93.  It's something that would have crushed him and haunted him his entire life.  It's a long story how I know the secret and my dad doesn't!  But I'd say that in this situation, it was a wise idea to keep it from him.

I think the problem is, SOMETIMES if they do come out, they are a much bigger deal than if they were just told.

[DawnM]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I have actually given this a lot of thought……and I do agree people have a right to privacy and a right to have or not have relationships with whomever they choose.  But when a baby is a result of that secret it is no longer about just you or your choices.  I can’t tell you how many stories I have read on the ancestry dna sight of adoptees who find their birth parent and birth parent ‘orders’ them  to not look up any of the siblings or the father or any other family.  Sorry, but my dna is my dna and I can track down whomever I please and attempt a relationship.  
 

 

THIS.   100%.

[Halftime Hope]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I will share in vague terms.  A family member came to live with my parents when they first got married and lived in the NE while my dad was in residency.    This family member was pregnant and had the baby while living with my parents.   She then went back to her home state and started dating the man she eventually married.   the baby was given up for adoption in the NE.

So, rather than tell the secret, I will encourage said family member's daughter to take a DNA test for "genealogical reasons."    

I also wonder about any of the rest of the family who has taken DNA testing and if they have found this "mystery relative.'

 

So you are planning to hint around, so that the family member's daughter finds out that she has a biological half-sibling somewhere?  You said it's not your secret to tell, but you are going set events in motion that could cause that secret to be divulged?

For what good?  So that half-biological siblings who have no connection other than genes in common can find each other? So someone has a chance to know their medical history? But you'd be doing it in spite of the desires of the adults involved, who clearly wished it to be their secret?

Dawn, you have posted things that indicate that you know what family heartache and tragedy are; you know how some people are deeply, irreparably flawed. You have been a witness to deceit and addiction in extended family members, and you've seen the horrific fallout for innocents. You know all this! Gently: why would you hand someone the key to a Pandora's box, when it seems that your parents and the family member most closely involved took great pains to keep this secret. Don't you think they had sufficient reason for the choices they made? A decision was made, and it should be respected by those not involved. 

I will give you an example from my own family, speaking in a manner that protects loved ones: 

In my extended family, there is "Someone" who was adopted into the family as a baby. "Someone" was conceived due to r*pe.  If Someone's children do genetic testing, it is very likely that the genetic testing would lead to the r*pist. Someone's biological mother is greatly loved by my whole family. But her life was severely impacted by what the Perp did, and there are long-lasting, multi-generational repercussions from what he (Perp) did that have had horrific ripples in Bio-mom's other children (half-sibs of Someone) because of the damage caused to her. But it was her place to tell her children or not to tell them; it was her story.  

A decade or so ago, when Someone had a medical crisis, Bio-mom asked Someone if there was a need to know who Perp was for the purposes of medical history; she was willing to do that for Someone. Someone told her no, it wasn't necessary.  Then within the last five years, I talked with Someone, and told Someone and Someone's spouse, together, what I had learned about genetic testing here on the boards, and the kind of things that could be found out from testing. Someone had not put together the implications of what would happen if his/her children did "curiosity" genetic testing, until that time. Someone was horrified at the thought that Bio-mom could be forced to deal with either Perp or the members of Perp's family.

So, that's the kind of event that can cause a young lady's choice to have a baby, give it up for adoption, and then choose to move on with a clean slate, so to speak.  It's the best chance for having the life she wanted and the life she would want for the baby. And it could be less traumatic than that, but still be a choice to be respected; maybe she simply decided that she just didn't want to continue to be involved with the man, and he was happy about her making the problem "go away".

If the mother (your relative) is still alive, you might talk with her about it and see if she wants her secret told.  Have you asked your dad? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Halftime Hope

[Janeway]

25 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I have actually given this a lot of thought……and I do agree people have a right to privacy and a right to have or not have relationships with whomever they choose.  But when a baby is a result of that secret it is no longer about just you or your choices.  I can’t tell you how many stories I have read on the ancestry dna sight of adoptees who find their birth parent and birth parent ‘orders’ them  to not look up any of the siblings or the father or any other family.  Sorry, but my dna is my dna and I can track down whomever I please and attempt a relationship.  
orry I have to go, I will finish this story later.  

I get that it is your DNA....BUT....what about in the here and now..before the baby is born? A woman is pregnant and for whatever reason, cannot have a child or does not. Is she obligated to abort? Because if she does not, even if she went through an entire pregnancy just so another could be called mom, and went through the pain if grieving the loss of the child she gave up, is the bioparent obligated to be punished and hurt all over again by the biological child showing up and declaring their right? 

I am sure DNA testing will cause some people who otherwise would have placed their babies for adoption to just abort. I have known some people who placed babies for adoption and it was extremely painful for them. It took years for them to recover and move on and build a different life for themselves. Then for decades later, the adult child to just show up and announce they are entitled to interrupt the biological family is just not right. My husband was adopted, his DNA is out there as he did do the testing. But after seeing what birth parents have often gone through, I do not think anyone has the right to just storm in to someone's life and announce they are entitled just because of DNA. That is something others should be very sensitive about and consider all that has taken place with the loss of the child for the bioparent and so on.

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I get that it is your DNA....BUT....what about in the here and now..before the baby is born? A woman is pregnant and for whatever reason, cannot have a child or does not. Is she obligated to abort? Because if she does not, even if she went through an entire pregnancy just so another could be called mom, and went through the pain if grieving the loss of the child she gave up, is the bioparent obligated to be punished and hurt all over again by the biological child showing up and declaring their right? 

I am sure DNA testing will cause some people who otherwise would have placed their babies for adoption to just abort. I have known some people who placed babies for adoption and it was extremely painful for them. It took years for them to recover and move on and build a different life for themselves. Then for decades later, the adult child to just show up and announce they are entitled to interrupt the biological family is just not right. My husband was adopted, his DNA is out there as he did do the testing. But after seeing what birth parents have often gone through, I do not think anyone has the right to just storm in to someone's life and announce they are entitled just because of DNA. That is something others should be very sensitive about and consider all that has taken place with the loss of the child for the bioparent and so on.

I just do not agree.  Life is full of trauma and we all have stuff to deal with.  Whether it was a pregnancy from rape or just something the bio mom wants to forget the fact remains a human has been created and that human has the right to know basic facts of their existence.  

[Halftime Hope]

10 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I get that it is your DNA....BUT....what about in the here and now..before the baby is born? A woman is pregnant and for whatever reason, cannot have a child or does not. Is she obligated to abort? Because if she does not, even if she went through an entire pregnancy just so another could be called mom, and went through the pain if grieving the loss of the child she gave up, is the bioparent obligated to be punished and hurt all over again by the biological child showing up and declaring their right? 

I am sure DNA testing will cause some people who otherwise would have placed their babies for adoption to just abort. I have known some people who placed babies for adoption and it was extremely painful for them. It took years for them to recover and move on and build a different life for themselves. Then for decades later, the adult child to just show up and announce they are entitled to interrupt the biological family is just not right. My husband was adopted, his DNA is out there as he did do the testing. But after seeing what birth parents have often gone through, I do not think anyone has the right to just storm in to someone's life and announce they are entitled just because of DNA. That is something others should be very sensitive about and consider all that has taken place with the loss of the child for the bioparent and so on.

Yes, this exactly. I wrote about the adoption story in my extended family above. Bio-mom had a huge hole in her heart that was exactly the shape of the Someone she had given up for adoption. Even though she married, had children of her own, and knew that Someone was in a loving family, she still mourned the loss of the baby she had carried, in spite of that baby being the result of a horrific act. When Someone went about finding her decades later, it was through one of her siblings, and her permission was requested. If she had said no, Someone would have walked away and respected that.  

 

[Pam in CT]

In combination, these two posts

39 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

So you are planning to hint around, so that the family member's daughter finds out that she has a biological half-sibling somewhere?  You said it's not your secret to tell, but you are going set events in motion that could cause that secret to be divulged?

For what good?  So that half-biological siblings who have no connection other than genes in common can find each other? So someone has a chance to know their medical history? But you'd be doing it in spite of the desires of the adults involved, who clearly wished it to be their secret?

Dawn, you have posted things that indicate that you know what family heartache and tragedy are; you know how some people are deeply, irreparably flawed. You have been a witness to deceit and addiction in extended family members, and you've seen the horrific fallout for innocents. You know all this! Gently: why would you hand someone the key to a Pandora's box, when it seems that your parents and the family member most closely involved took great pains to keep this secret. Don't you think they had sufficient reason for the choices they made? A decision was made, and it should be respected by those not involved. 

I will give you an example from my own family, speaking in a manner that protects loved ones: 

In my extended family, there is "Someone" who was adopted into the family as a baby. "Someone" was conceived due to r*pe.  If Someone's children do genetic testing, it is very likely that the genetic testing would lead to the r*pist. Someone's biological mother is greatly loved by my whole family. But her life was severely impacted by what the Perp did, and there are long-lasting, multi-generational repercussions from what he (Perp) did that have had horrific ripples in Bio-mom's other children (half-sibs of Someone) because of the damage caused to her. But it was her place to tell her children or not to tell them; it was her story.  

A decade or so ago, when Someone had a medical crisis, Bio-mom asked Someone if there was a need to know who Perp was for the purposes of medical history; she was willing to do that for Someone. Someone told her no, it wasn't necessary.  Then within the last five years, I talked with Someone, and told Someone and Someone's spouse, together, what I had learned about genetic testing here on the boards, and the kind of things that could be found out from testing. Someone had not put together the implications of what would happen if his/her children did "curiosity" genetic testing, until that time. Someone was horrified at the thought that Bio-mom could be forced to deal with either Perp or the members of Perp's family.

So, that's the kind of event that can cause a young lady's choice to have a baby, give it up for adoption, and then choose to move on with a clean slate, so to speak.  It's the best chance for having the life she wanted and the life she would want for the baby. And it could be less traumatic than that, but still be a choice to be respected; maybe she simply decided that she just didn't want to continue to be involved with the man, and he was happy about her making the problem "go away".

If the mother (your relative) is still alive, you might talk with her about it and see if she wants her secret told.  Have you asked your dad? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I get that it is your DNA....BUT....what about in the here and now..before the baby is born? A woman is pregnant and for whatever reason, cannot have a child or does not. Is she obligated to abort? Because if she does not, even if she went through an entire pregnancy just so another could be called mom, and went through the pain if grieving the loss of the child she gave up, is the bioparent obligated to be punished and hurt all over again by the biological child showing up and declaring their right? 

I am sure DNA testing will cause some people who otherwise would have placed their babies for adoption to just abort. I have known some people who placed babies for adoption and it was extremely painful for them. It took years for them to recover and move on and build a different life for themselves. Then for decades later, the adult child to just show up and announce they are entitled to interrupt the biological family is just not right. My husband was adopted, his DNA is out there as he did do the testing. But after seeing what birth parents have often gone through, I do not think anyone has the right to just storm in to someone's life and announce they are entitled just because of DNA. That is something others should be very sensitive about and consider all that has taken place with the loss of the child for the bioparent and so on.

lay out a real risk, and the unintended consequence that the Glorious Potential of DNA testing/Ancestry.com combined lead to a real effect: that young women impregnated by rape are more likely to choose abortion over adoption, out of well-founded fear that they'll be dragged back to their trauma decades later by Pandora's Box curiosity.

I KNOW that's not what the LDS and other geneology enthusiasts, or advocates of family transparency, intend.

But that's literally what the Pandora's Box story is about.

[Halftime Hope]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I just do not agree.  Life is full of trauma and we all have stuff to deal with.  Whether it was a pregnancy from rape or just something the bio mom wants to forget the fact remains a human has been created and that human has the right to know basic facts of their existence.  

Nope. I do not agree with this. There is no right to knowledge.

[Selkie]

You said her husband is still alive, right? Why would you want to spring that information on him at this point in his life? I would recommend staying out of it.

[Scarlett]

18 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

Nope. I do not agree with this. There is no right to knowledge.

I feel the exact opposite.  I felt this way long before dna was so easily obtained.  But now even more so since it is really  impossible to keep those secrets.  And while I understand that people who have 50 year old secrets never imagined the science that available now, the fact is those secrets are gushing out now.  How we deal with them will show our humanity.  

Edited July 4, 2021 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, Selkie said:

You said her husband is still alive, right? Why would you want to spring that information on him at this point in his life? I would recommend staying out of it.

Old people don’t  have a right to know the truth?  What is that age limit? 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Halftime Hope said:

So you are planning to hint around, so that the family member's daughter finds out that she has a biological half-sibling somewhere?  You said it's not your secret to tell, but you are going set events in motion that could cause that secret to be divulged?

For what good?  So that half-biological siblings who have no connection other than genes in common can find each other? So someone has a chance to know their medical history? But you'd be doing it in spite of the desires of the adults involved, who clearly wished it to be their secret?

Dawn, you have posted things that indicate that you know what family heartache and tragedy are; you know how some people are deeply, irreparably flawed. You have been a witness to deceit and addiction in extended family members, and you've seen the horrific fallout for innocents. You know all this! Gently: why would you hand someone the key to a Pandora's box, when it seems that your parents and the family member most closely involved took great pains to keep this secret. Don't you think they had sufficient reason for the choices they made? A decision was made, and it should be respected by those not involved. 

I will give you an example from my own family, speaking in a manner that protects loved ones: 

In my extended family, there is "Someone" who was adopted into the family as a baby. "Someone" was conceived due to r*pe.  If Someone's children do genetic testing, it is very likely that the genetic testing would lead to the r*pist. Someone's biological mother is greatly loved by my whole family. But her life was severely impacted by what the Perp did, and there are long-lasting, multi-generational repercussions from what he (Perp) did that have had horrific ripples in Bio-mom's other children (half-sibs of Someone) because of the damage caused to her. But it was her place to tell her children or not to tell them; it was her story.  

A decade or so ago, when Someone had a medical crisis, Bio-mom asked Someone if there was a need to know who Perp was for the purposes of medical history; she was willing to do that for Someone. Someone told her no, it wasn't necessary.  Then within the last five years, I talked with Someone, and told Someone and Someone's spouse, together, what I had learned about genetic testing here on the boards, and the kind of things that could be found out from testing. Someone had not put together the implications of what would happen if his/her children did "curiosity" genetic testing, until that time. Someone was horrified at the thought that Bio-mom could be forced to deal with either Perp or the members of Perp's family.

So, that's the kind of event that can cause a young lady's choice to have a baby, give it up for adoption, and then choose to move on with a clean slate, so to speak.  It's the best chance for having the life she wanted and the life she would want for the baby. And it could be less traumatic than that, but still be a choice to be respected; maybe she simply decided that she just didn't want to continue to be involved with the man, and he was happy about her making the problem "go away".

If the mother (your relative) is still alive, you might talk with her about it and see if she wants her secret told.  Have you asked your dad? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn’t hint around.  I don’t hint.

[Scarlett]

22 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

In combination, these two posts

 

lay out a real risk, and the unintended consequence that the Glorious Potential of DNA testing/Ancestry.com combined lead to a real effect: that young women impregnated by rape are more likely to choose abortion over adoption, out of well-founded fear that they'll be dragged back to their trauma decades later by Pandora's Box curiosity.

I KNOW that's not what the LDS and other geneology enthusiasts, or advocates of family transparency, intend.

But that's literally what the Pandora's Box story is about.

If a woman chooses abortion that is on them.  It isn’t on the possibility of the child possibly finding birth mom someday.  

[Selkie]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Old people don’t  have a right to know the truth?  What is that age limit? 

It shows a lack of empathy to do that to him. Imagine how you would feel if you were an elderly widow and that happened to you.

[Scarlett]

26 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

Yes, this exactly. I wrote about the adoption story in my extended family above. Bio-mom had a huge hole in her heart that was exactly the shape of the Someone she had given up for adoption. Even though she married, had children of her own, and knew that Someone was in a loving family, she still mourned the loss of the baby she had carried, in spite of that baby being the result of a horrific act. When Someone went about finding her decades later, it was through one of her siblings, and her permission was requested. If she had said no, Someone would have walked away and respected that.  

 

Whose permission was requested? Are you saying birth mom had wanted no contact the adopted child would have respected that? I mean, that seems obvious.  You can’t force someone to have a relationship with you.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Selkie said:

It shows a lack of empathy to do that to him. Imagine how you would feel if you were an elderly widow and that happened to you.

I would want to know the truth of my life regardless of my age.  And I would certainly want the adoptee to know the truth of their life regardless of my age. ,

[Selkie]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I would want to know the truth of my life regardless of my age.  And I would certainly want the adoptee to know the truth of their life regardless of my age. ,

Maybe you would want to know, although I think it is much easier to say that when it hasn't actually happened to you.

Regardless of your feelings, I don't believe it is right for someone to disrupt lives just for the heck of it - because they found out a secret and want to tell.

[Scarlett]

So to continue my family’s story…….it took a minute for the room to stop spinning and all of the pieces fell into place.  My step cousin J had told me a story 30 years ago….that his then wife Sugar (he had 5 kids with her) had gotten pregnant.  J had had a V. He is a nurse…he KNEW she was pregnant but she lied about it to the very end.  She placed the baby for adoption….(the hospital had called and told my cousin she left her purse there or something) but never admitted it.  A year later my cousin divorced her.  What he did not tell me at the time is that he suspected his 20 year old brother as being the father.  And of course he was.  That is how the girl showed up on my and moms dna.  
 

So mom calls Js current wife and asks her about it.  Current wife knew about it. She says, ‘ just leave it alone it will just cause a big problem.’  Well, mom said um, no this girl deserves to know the truth and whatever ‘problem’ there is or will be is  not this girls fault. 
 

J calls mom and says, well I have been waiting for her to show up……and he called her and talked to her and welcomed her to the family as a niece.  
 

Mom called B….and he freely admitted it and told mom he needed to call his brother J first and get that straightened out…which he did.  He then contacted his daughter and within 5 days they had met.  She has many half siblings and has met many of them…..

Sugar is still resistant….and I am not sure about her other kids.  
 

I just think how much better all of this would be if it had not been an attempted secret for 30 years.  

Edited July 4, 2021 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Maybe you would want to know, although I think it is much easier to say that when it hasn't actually happened to you.

Regardless of your feelings, I don't believe it is right for someone to disrupt lives just for the heck of it - because they found out a secret and want to tell.

I had a adulterous first husband.  Trust me, I have thought a great deal about how I would react if a child shows up conceived during my marriage to him. 
 

I don’t feel like these facts are revealed ‘for the heck of it’.  

[Pam in CT]

re the unintended consequences of adverse incentives

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

If a woman chooses abortion that is on them.  It isn’t on the possibility of the child possibly finding birth mom someday.  

Sure.  Individual choice.  I agree.

 

And yet, in the aggregate, the combined effects of DNA enthusiasm and Pandora curiosity (including the idea you expressed, that we each have a "right" to "knowledge") creates a new set of incentive structures that ups the risks/costs to women with unplanned pregnancies.  Particularly in the cases of pregnancies causes by rape, where the risk is not merely that a long held "secret" could be unilaterally unveiled decades later and disrupt relationships in marriage/later children, but that a deep and painful trauma could be unilaterally unveiled decades later.

In the aggregate, the distance we've driven, as a society, away from the concept of "privacy" and towards DNA typing and prurience has created a system of consequences that tilts more toward abortion.  That's on US, all of the cogs in the enormous wheel that collectively comprise the system.  I fully appreciate that that is totally-not what the formidable resources that LDS has built, for entirely different reasons, to facilitate ancestry.com ever intended.

Unintended. Nonetheless: consequences. 

Which I do put on *us*, every one of us who contributed to that effort or to those databases or to the wide range of business models that support those databases.  YMMV.

 

I don't discount, at all, the longing of people who were adopted to trace their origins or understand their genetic medical records or connect with biological relatives if they are able.   I do see real tension between that valid interest, versus the longing of (some, not all) birth mothers to put painful trauma behind them.  It's a tradeoff. The "humanity" does not heap up all on one side between those dueling legitimate interests.

 

(And I'm substantially less sympathetic to the interest of extended family members several degrees removed from adoption... the further the connection from straight genetic line, the less it looks like a matter of medical information and the more it looks like sheer prurience.  I don't see "humanity" as enabling gossip or prurience by distant relatives over the real pain of the principals.)

 

[Fritz]

49 minutes ago, Selkie said:

You said her husband is still alive, right? Why would you want to spring that information on him at this point in his life? I would recommend staying out of it.

This. If his children ever ask about having found a DNA match or perhaps after the uncle dies maybe share that info with them. I see no benefit to having the widower find this information out now.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Fritz

[Tap]

If there is a secret to be told, the original people involved should be contacted first and given the opportunity to address it as they wish. If someone feels the right to tell someone else's story, then they need to have the backbone to to confront the original people (author of the story so to speak) and tell the author that they are going to out thier story. I would not wait for people to die, before telling others the secret. If it is so important that the story be told, the author of the story has the right to be the one to guide how the story unfolds. 

We have all be in circumstances of life, that may look one way from the outside, but the true story was hidden. Either by people's perception of events, or by someone saving face. An example would be a person who looks like a great mate from the outside, but is maybe abusive or demanding behind closed doors. 

If there is a secret that others are demanding be told, then the author of the story, has the right to tell thier side. 

[Scarlett]

Obviously there are two camps to this dilemma. It really does make it difficult when two of the parties are from different camps. 

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

So you are planning to hint around, so that the family member's daughter finds out that she has a biological half-sibling somewhere?  You said it's not your secret to tell, but you are going set events in motion that could cause that secret to be divulged?

For what good?  So that half-biological siblings who have no connection other than genes in common can find each other? So someone has a chance to know their medical history? But you'd be doing it in spite of the desires of the adults involved, who clearly wished it to be their secret?

Dawn, you have posted things that indicate that you know what family heartache and tragedy are; you know how some people are deeply, irreparably flawed. You have been a witness to deceit and addiction in extended family members, and you've seen the horrific fallout for innocents. You know all this! Gently: why would you hand someone the key to a Pandora's box, when it seems that your parents and the family member most closely involved took great pains to keep this secret. Don't you think they had sufficient reason for the choices they made? A decision was made, and it should be respected by those not involved. 

I will give you an example from my own family, speaking in a manner that protects loved ones: 

In my extended family, there is "Someone" who was adopted into the family as a baby. "Someone" was conceived due to r*pe.  If Someone's children do genetic testing, it is very likely that the genetic testing would lead to the r*pist. Someone's biological mother is greatly loved by my whole family. But her life was severely impacted by what the Perp did, and there are long-lasting, multi-generational repercussions from what he (Perp) did that have had horrific ripples in Bio-mom's other children (half-sibs of Someone) because of the damage caused to her. But it was her place to tell her children or not to tell them; it was her story.  

A decade or so ago, when Someone had a medical crisis, Bio-mom asked Someone if there was a need to know who Perp was for the purposes of medical history; she was willing to do that for Someone. Someone told her no, it wasn't necessary.  Then within the last five years, I talked with Someone, and told Someone and Someone's spouse, together, what I had learned about genetic testing here on the boards, and the kind of things that could be found out from testing. Someone had not put together the implications of what would happen if his/her children did "curiosity" genetic testing, until that time. Someone was horrified at the thought that Bio-mom could be forced to deal with either Perp or the members of Perp's family.

So, that's the kind of event that can cause a young lady's choice to have a baby, give it up for adoption, and then choose to move on with a clean slate, so to speak.  It's the best chance for having the life she wanted and the life she would want for the baby. And it could be less traumatic than that, but still be a choice to be respected; maybe she simply decided that she just didn't want to continue to be involved with the man, and he was happy about her making the problem "go away".

If the mother (your relative) is still alive, you might talk with her about it and see if she wants her secret told.  Have you asked your dad? 

 

 

I believe everyone who WANTS to know where they came from have the right to know.   That child may very well have the same huge hold in her/his heart wanting to know more about where they came from.

Unless you have been adopted and have no idea who your biological family is, you have no way of understanding the longing to know.    I am on adoption forums where people pour out their hearts and want desperately to know more about their bio families.    There are very few adoptees who have no desire to know.   

[theelfqueen]

6 minutes ago, DawnM said:

   There are very few adoptees who have no desire to know.   

I think this might be inaccurate- I know quite a few adoptees with no desire to know. I assume that they would not be on these kinds of forums (because they have a different relationship with their own status as an adoptee).... so it would seem that "almost all adoptees want to know" rather than "almost all adoptees involved in adoptee forums want to know" 

[DawnM]

4 minutes ago, theelfqueen said:

I think this might be inaccurate- I know quite a few adoptees with no desire to know. I assume that they would not be on these kinds of forums (because they have a different relationship with their own status as an adoptee).... so it would seem that "almost all adoptees want to know" rather than "almost all adoptees involved in adoptee forums want to know" 

Stats are high, forums or no forums, but the fact remains, if you want to know, it is YOUR story and you have the right to know.   I stand by that, and you can disagree, but that is where I stand on the issue.

 

Here is one such study:

https://www.americanadoptioncongress.org/reform_myths.php

Edited July 4, 2021 by DawnM

[Halftime Hope]

34 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

I believe everyone who WANTS to know where they came from have the right to know.   That child may very well have the same huge hold in her/his heart wanting to know more about where they came from.

Unless you have been adopted and have no idea who your biological family is, you have no way of understanding the longing to know.    I am on adoption forums where people pour out their hearts and want desperately to know more about their bio families.    There are very few adoptees who have no desire to know.   

In the situation you describe, the biological mother has just as much right to keep the circumstances of her life concealed as a potential child of hers has know something about their lineage.  I cannot say this strongly enough: those directly involved should be able to make and keep their choices without a bystander creating a situation that creates a revelation without their consent. 

I have very personal experience with two adoption situations. In both of them, there was a large and troubling mismatch in the expectations between the child and the bio-parents in what they would "find". The one situation in my extended family turned out as well as can be expected. 

In the case that I described above, "Someone" had zero desire to find birthparents.  It took about a decade after the possibility was first broached, by the adoptive mother, for "Someone" to develop any interest in knowing more about biological ancestry.  So theelfqueen's observation is indeed correct. 

[Halftime Hope]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Whose permission was requested? Are you saying birth mom had wanted no contact the adopted child would have respected that? I mean, that seems obvious.  You can’t force someone to have a relationship with you.  

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.  The adopted child asked if the birthmother wanted to be contacted, through one of her relatives. If she had said no, the adopted child would have walked away and left her alone.