facebook is FULL of people posting get togethers, group meals, group selfies

[DoraBora]

2 hours ago, Kassia said:

Dd's college is requiring testing before going back to the dorms.  So dd will test when she gets on campus, but is flying in so she'll be exposed when she's flying in the planes and airports (couldn't get a direct flight).  Plus, it's my understanding that it's not a rapid test so students go to their dorms before results are in if that's true.  Makes no sense to me.

 

Apart from closing the dorms, what else can they do?  If students test before they leave home, they might be exposed while en route to school.  If they wait until they arrive, a rapid test with negative results may only mean they're pre-symptomatic.

On A&M's website, they outline regulations and requirements that sound similar to your dd's uni, but they openly admit they won't catch all of the new cases.

I think anything they can do to catch at least some cases is better than nothing.

[Hilltopmom]

On 12/28/2020 at 8:59 PM, MercyA said:

No one would be made to feel unwelcome at our church. Just as one example, we have a long-attending, co-habitating, unmarried couple, and as far as I know, no one has been unkind to them. They know their behavior does not line up with the teachings of our church; they choose to attend anyway and not become members. 

Imo, if it wasn’t an issue you would not even know or think to mention that they are not married. So, I’d say it IS an issue at your church, just one that you’re mostly ok with.

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Amy Gen said:

I’m just glad that my kid isn’t having in person classes. 

At our college, none of the infections during the fall semester originated from an in-person class or lab.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, regentrude said:

At our college, none of the infections during the fall semester originated from an in-person class or lab.

Where did they come from? Parties?

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Where did they come from? Parties?

Some, probably. But students also have contact in the dorm, at study sessions, athletic practice, small social gatherings. The administration did not inform faculty where each student got infected, but they did reassure us that class was not the issue, and I trust them on this. (I teach in person)

Our school did very aggressive contact tracing and quaratining and kept numbers much lower that the general population in the surrounding town/county.

Edited December 31, 2020 by regentrude

[Dmmetler]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Where did they come from? Parties?

At least at my DD’s campus, most originated at work. Having said that, only very limited programs had on campus classes at all, and it’s a commuter school, so I’m not sure that it scales. DD had no on campus classes in the fall, and is supposed to have one lab in the Spring, but the class is online except for labs (and it’s geology, with a statement that most labs will be conducted outside). 

[Kassia]

59 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

Apart from closing the dorms, what else can they do?  If students test before they leave home, they might be exposed while en route to school.  If they wait until they arrive, a rapid test with negative results may only mean they're pre-symptomatic.

On A&M's website, they outline regulations and requirements that sound similar to your dd's uni, but they openly admit they won't catch all of the new cases.

I think anything they can do to catch at least some cases is better than nothing.

From what I'm reading, they are testing students and then sending them to the dorms, but won't get results for a few days.  That's what I'm confused about.  If a student tests positive, they will have already been in the dorm, dining hall, etc.  And they won't allow students in the dorm until they test.  So students like my dd, who is flying, can't even check in her luggage until the test is taken.  If her flight is late and she misses her test, I don't know what she will do - I am waiting for housing to return from break to answer my questions.  Her flight is scheduled to come in hours before her test, so will she have to drag her luggage around campus until she's allowed back in her dorm?  And she won't be able to go to the dining hall if she has her luggage with her.  It just doesn't seem very well thought out.  

 

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, Kassia said:

From what I'm reading, they are testing students and then sending them to the dorms, but won't get results for a few days.  That's what I'm confused about.  If a student tests positive, they will have already been in the dorm, dining hall, etc.  And they won't allow students in the dorm until they test.  So students like my dd, who is flying, can't even check in her luggage until the test is taken.  If her flight is late and she misses her test, I don't know what she will do - I am waiting for housing to return from break to answer my questions.  Her flight is scheduled to come in hours before her test, so will she have to drag her luggage around campus until she's allowed back in her dorm?  And she won't be able to go to the dining hall if she has her luggage with her.  It just doesn't seem very well thought out.  

It is not ideal, sure - but what else do you suggest they do?
I do not think any school has enough facilities to segregate students in individual quarantine while test results are pending.

ETA: Dragging luggage around campus for a day doesn't seem to me such a huge deal. Travelers do it all the time.

Edited December 31, 2020 by regentrude

[Kassia]

Just now, regentrude said:

It is not ideal, sure - but what else do you suggest they do?
I do not think any school has enough facilities to segregate students in individual quarantine while test results are pending.

Oh, I agree.  I guess I wouldn't mind if they weren't being so strict about no access to the dorm until after testing, which will take days before results are in anyway.  With dd being OOS, I'm concerned about her being stranded on campus with her luggage if her flight is delayed and she misses her testing appointment.  Trying to work this out with housing before she leaves.  She can't be the only student in this situation.

 

[kokotg]

DS's college is (or did first semester; I assume it will be similar this semester) requiring a test before coming back then another one after getting there. They're supposed to sort of quarantine (only go out for food, basically) for the first 10 days they're there, I think. And then they test 15% of the campus randomly every week. They didn't have any on campus cases at all until right before the end of the first semester. Of course, they also were doing most classes online, had everyone in single dorm rooms, limited how many people came back, etc. etc. He's kind of on the fence about whether it was worth being on campus at all, but he did get to see some friends and have different walls to stare at for awhile at least. 

[Bootsie]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

At our college, none of the infections during the fall semester originated from an in-person class or lab.

My university also claims that there were no infections traced to in-person classes or labs.  

Our in-person classes ended before Thanksgiving.  Since the beginning of December we have had 43 cases of faculty/staff reporting having COVID (out of about 2300 faculty/staff).  That is about 2% of the faculty and staff this month alone.  This is in line with the the November infection rates among faculty/staff and more than was occurring in the early fall months.  Few people are working on campus, so what is being reported as "campus cases" are really cases of people who have some association with the university but the source of infection is most likely not associated with the university.  

 

[Corraleno]

DS's university did a good job last semester — they cracked down hard on off-campus parties, which seemed to be the main cause of spread, and their numbers were much lower than the surrounding city or state. Next semester, all students (both on and off campus) must test as soon as they return, and all classes and events are virtual for the first two weeks to allow for quarantine. Then all students will be tested weekly throughout the semester, regardless of where they are living or whether they have in-person classes. Testing is free, easy to schedule online, and students have been getting their results in 24 hours or less.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Corraleno

[DoraBora]

42 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Oh, I agree.  I guess I wouldn't mind if they weren't being so strict about no access to the dorm until after testing, which will take days before results are in anyway.  With dd being OOS, I'm concerned about her being stranded on campus with her luggage if her flight is delayed and she misses her testing appointment.  Trying to work this out with housing before she leaves.  She can't be the only student in this situation.

 

The housing people might not have considered that scenario.  It's good that you're pointing it out to them.  There are just so many moving parts!

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, Hilltopmom said:

Imo, if it wasn’t an issue you would not even know or think to mention that they are not married. So, I’d say it IS an issue at your church, just one that you’re mostly ok with.

Fair enough. I will say that no one ever gossiped about it to me, and I did not know about it for at least a year, probably more. When the pastor's wife and I were discussing a related matter, she mentioned that a couple was living together and the pastor had spoken to them. She did not say or even hint at who it was.

I only knew for sure when the young man's father made it clear to me. 

I am happy for anyone to attend who wants to do so (barring, of course, anyone who deliberately disrupts services, etc.) So in that sense I am okay with it. I would definitely have a problem with them being allowed to join as members and I make no apologies for that.

Edited December 31, 2020 by MercyA

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Seasider too said:

I am honestly not sure how they feel certain the transmission didn’t occur at school.

Hmmmmm. This might be a CYA kind of thing, to be honest. Unless they are tracing it back to specific parties or something like that, I have NO IDEA how they'd know exactly where someone got infected. 

As we saw in places with careful contact tracing, COVID does sometimes spread via surfaces and also VERY short interactions. (Think that girl in the Australian pizza parlor.) So I don't see how you would ever be able to rule out in-class interactions... 

[regentrude]

9 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

These are my thoughts, too. I believe top notch contact tracing could maybe make a distinction, but I am doubtful about our personal circumstances. Perhaps the universities mentioned about have more reliable contact tracing methods. 

If transmission were occurring in class, wouldn't that mean that students in that class would be infected, while students who are not in that class and only interact with the person outside of class won't be? If the kids who are together in math class don't get it but the kids who are together in swim team do, wouldn't that mean the transmission happened at swimming and not at math?

At our the university, they are questioning students who they had close contact with, and based on that are quarantining fraternities or athletic teams or study groups.
I don't think the contact tracing makes the difference, but rather the fact that students cannot have close contact in class, because of distanced seating and mask requirement; any in-class interaction would not meet the CDC's "close contact" definition because they would never be within 6 ft of one another in class. 

Are students at your school not distanced and masked in class?

Edited January 1, 2021 by regentrude

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

If transmission were occurring in class, wouldn't that mean that students in that class would be infected, while students who are not in that class and only interact with the person outside of class won't be?

Why would it mean that? You can have transmission in a few places. If transmission were occurring in class, you'd probably expect a few people to get sick in class, a few people elsewhere. 

 

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Are students at your school not distanced and masked in class?

I'm pretty sure distancing and masking help but do not remove the risk when you're sharing air for a long period of time. Besides, unless students are very different from everyone else I see, they are probably not perfect about how they use their masks. 

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 Besides, unless students are very different from everyone else I see, they are probably not perfect about how they use their masks. 

I look at my students while I teach and see their faces. During the entire semester, I had one single student whom I had to remind to pull up his mask to cover his nose. So yes, I was impressed with how well they did.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

I look at my students while I teach and see their faces. During the entire semester, I had one single student whom I had to remind to pull up his mask to cover his nose. So yes, I was impressed with how well they did.

I would guess college students would be better at this than high school students. Plus, the rooms are often a LOT bigger -- more air to circulate, more space to distance. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Dmmetler]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

If transmission were occurring in class, wouldn't that mean that students in that class would be infected, while students who are not in that class and only interact with the person outside of class won't be? If the kids who are together in math class don't get it but the kids who are together in swim team do, wouldn't that mean the transmission happened at swimming and not at math?

At our the university, they are questioning students who they had close contact with, and based on that are quarantining fraternities or athletic teams or study groups.
I don't think the contact tracing makes the difference, but rather the fact that students cannot have close contact in class, because of distanced seating and mask requirement; any in-class interaction would not meet the CDC's "close contact" definition because they would never be within 6 ft of one another in class. 

Are students at your school not distanced and masked in class?

Also, at least here, the schools are tending to limit the number of classes on campus at a time and move classes into the buildings that have better ventilation, newer HVAC, etc 

 

It's no guarantee, obviously, but it definitely seems less likely that COVID would be as easily transmitted in the chem lab with one student per table, required masks, the room well ventilated, and the hoods running so that, probably, droplets will be pulled up and out vs the party that weekend with no masks and a keg. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Dmmetler said:

It's no guarantee, obviously, but it definitely seems less likely that COVID would be as easily transmitted in the chem lab with one student per table, required masks, the room well ventilated, and the hoods running so that, probably, droplets will be pulled up and out vs the party that weekend with no masks and a keg. 

Oh, I would be astounded if there wasn't more transmission at parties than in classes. 

But if there aren't necessarily pinpointed superspreader events, only the knowledge that kids are getting sick and people aren't sure where (which seems consistent with the state of contract tracing in the US), then I would be pretty worried that people weren't being honest with me. 

[regentrude]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I would guess college students would be better at this than high school students. Plus, the rooms are often a LOT bigger -- more air to circulate, more space to distance. 

No, most of are classrooms aren't that big - but we greatly reduced occupancy to have distanced seating. The regular classrooms that normally hold 35 students are now only allowed to seat 8; the 140 seat lecture hall I normally use is now permitted to seat 28 students. We repurposed non-classrooms for lectures. This semester I taught in the gymnasium, and next semester I will be teaching in the ballroom.

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

No, most of are classrooms aren't that big - but we greatly reduced occupancy to have distanced seating. The regular classrooms that normally hold 35 students are now only allowed to seat 8; the 140 seat lecture hall I normally use is now permitted to seat 28 students. We repurposed non-classrooms for lectures. This semester I taught in the gymnasium, and next semester I will be teaching in the ballroom.

I was just pointing out that high schools don't have 140 seat lecture halls. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[RootAnn]

29 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I was just pointing out that high schools don't have 140 seat lecture halls. 

My high school did, but not more than 2 of them when I went there. Obviously, you can't have every class in those two places. We had 3 gyms, too.

[Tenaj]

Just as an addition to the discussion about schools and colleges.  Ohio's governor announced yesterday that they are NOT seeing spread in the classroom and as a result have changed the quarantine requirements for classrooms.  

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/government/2020/12/30/ohio-students-exposed-covid-19-class-wont-have-quarantine/4091652001/

My understanding that if masked and distanced, no quarantine will be required in classrooms at all.  This doesn't apply to extracurricular activities.   

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, JanOH said:

Just as an addition to the discussion about schools and colleges.  Ohio's governor announced yesterday that they are NOT seeing spread in the classroom and as a result have changed the quarantine requirements for classrooms.  

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/government/2020/12/30/ohio-students-exposed-covid-19-class-wont-have-quarantine/4091652001/

My understanding that if masked and distanced, no quarantine will be required in classrooms at all.  This doesn't apply to extracurricular activities.   

Very interesting. Is there a link to the data somewhere? How old were the kids they were testing? What was the control group? I have a LOT of questions about this data. 

(I'm not arguing with it: I'd like this to be true. But I want to know more.) 

[1234]

My dc’s uni had outbreaks in Greek houses but no big issues with dorms or classes. Only one of my dc had an in person class and it was limited to 9 students and, of course, they all had to mask. They also had random testing weekly throughout the semester.

[lewelma]

7 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Are these tests free? Because that could get expensive!

My ds's university requires all undergrad and grad students, faculty, and staff on campus to get tested 2 times per week.  It is a tech school, so they set up their own lab to get it done. Cheaper than having an outbreak. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by lewelma

[1234]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

My ds's university requires all undergrad and grad students, faculty, and staff on campus to get tested 2 times per week.  It is a tech school, so they set up their own lab to get it done. Cheaper than having an outbreak. 

My dc’s uni set up their own testing lab as well. Tests are free for all students and once they set up their own lab, they were able to ramp up testing.

[lewelma]

6 hours ago, Kassia said:

From what I'm reading, they are testing students and then sending them to the dorms, but won't get results for a few days.  

Ds's university also has Q week last semester and this semester.  All students must quarantine in their room for the first 7 days they are on campus. Food is delivered to their door, and they are assigned a stall and sink in the bathroom. During that week they will have gotten 2 tests and received their results for both.

They also must name their pod of 6, and all other contact must be masked and socially distanced. 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Ds's university also has Q week last semester and this semester.  All students must quarantine in their room for the first 7 days they are on campus. Food is delivered to their door, and they are assigned a stall and sink in the bathroom. During that week they will have gotten 2 tests and received their results for both.

They also must name their pod of 6, and all other contact must be masked and socially distanced. 

*sigh* 

I really wish your son's university was running the country right about now 😛 . Getting this kind of public health project right seems like a job for an engineer... 

[kokotg]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I look at my students while I teach and see their faces. During the entire semester, I had one single student whom I had to remind to pull up his mask to cover his nose. So yes, I was impressed with how well they did.

DH has had very few issues with his (high school) students, either. A handful of times where he's needed to ask someone to pull a mask over their nose, but no one has given him any trouble at all. Whether all the other teachers they see during the day are being as vigilant, I can't say of course. 

[Tenaj]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Very interesting. Is there a link to the data somewhere? How old were the kids they were testing? What was the control group? I have a LOT of questions about this data. 

(I'm not arguing with it: I'd like this to be true. But I want to know more.) 

He quoted the studies during the press conference but I didn't write them down.  I will have to do some more digging.

[scholastica]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

No, most of are classrooms aren't that big - but we greatly reduced occupancy to have distanced seating. The regular classrooms that normally hold 35 students are now only allowed to seat 8; the 140 seat lecture hall I normally use is now permitted to seat 28 students. We repurposed non-classrooms for lectures. This semester I taught in the gymnasium, and next semester I will be teaching in the ballroom.

Can I just say how I love the image of teaching physics in a ballroom. I don’t know why, but I do.

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, JanOH said:

He quoted the studies during the press conference but I didn't write them down.  I will have to do some more digging.

Tag me if you find them! 

[MercyA]

4 hours ago, kand said:

I always wonder what Jesus would do in these situations. Do you think he would allow them to be members? When I think of it that way, it feels like even the idea of church membership doesn’t feel quite like what he would do, but our church is organized that way also. My hunch is he would welcome a lot of people we might not expect him to. I hope so, anyway, because I’m a glutton. I’m currently hiding away in my room eating Christmas candy that I bought extra of for myself  just so I could do so 😳. Would I be able to be a member?

No, I don't believe He would allow them to be members, for His first concern would be the good of their souls and not their comfort.

Christ is always, always ready to welcome with open arms a repentant sinner (and like Paul, I am chief of sinners, unfortunately). He said to the adulteress whom He saved from stoning, "Neither do I condemn you. Now go and sin no more" and to the crippled man He healed, "See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”

Remember, the same Christ who is loving and forgiving and merciful also said, "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell" and "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be subject to the fire of hell."

He is loving in His truth-telling. And as church members we tell the truth to each other, about grace and mercy and also about holiness and sin.

We have clear instructions for a member who is involved in sexual immorality: "I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judge those outside. 'Purge the evil person from among you.'" For what purpose? "So that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." (1 Corinthians 5)

Does your church covenant forbid gluttony? Is there a Scripture in the New Testament which speaks to it in regards to membership? I can't think of any at the moment. Yes, it's a sin, and one I struggle with as well. I do not believe all sins are equal, nor that the Bible teaches such a thing. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by MercyA

[Bootsie]

7 hours ago, Seasider too said:

 

So, the few cases at our small private high school are said to have been transmitted the same way - NOT by in class interactions, but by these very same kids hanging out together unmasked outside of school.
 

I am honestly not sure how they feel certain the transmission didn’t occur at school. Especially with lax standards for proper mask wearing and places where it’s difficult to keep a proper distance. My kid strives to do it all right, but it’s dicey. This is why I keep saying our teen gets to spend nearly our whole family’s covid-exposure budget. 

I think it would be easier to tell the location of infection with a university group than a high school group.  In high school, Sally may go to class with the same five girls all day, play on the volleyball team with the same five girls, and hang out with them on the weekend.  So, if the five others contract COVID and Sally is the common link for all of them, it is difficult to tell at which interaction with Sally the infection occurred.  

But in college, Sarah shares a house with five girls.  She doesn't have any in-person classes with any of them.  Sarah has COVID and the the other five girls she lives with get COVID later in the week.  No one in any of Sarah's classes tests positive over the next couple of weeks.  It is highly likely the five girls got COVID from their housemate, not from attending classes.  

 

[MercyA]

21 minutes ago, kand said:

I’m derailing the thread, so I’ll try to keep this brief so the thread can get back on topic. I don’t think I really have much to discuss on this, I was just thinking about what a concept of church membership would mean to Jesus, because I don’t know of anything like formal church membership in the early church. This spun off an earlier comment about gay marriage and an unmarried couple having a sexual relationship is actually more problematic to me biblically than a married gay couple, which I don’t find a biblical problem with. There was no concept of gay marriage in biblical times, so it is not addressed. The gay relationships talked about in the Bible would be referring purely to sexual relationships, usually in the context of prostitution and/or promiscuity. Clearly that would be unbiblical.
 

My own denomination doesn’t have anything that would bar someone who is gay from being a member, and has a clear policy that people who are gay are as welcome in the church as anyone else, and acknowledges the harm the church has historically caused to those in the LGBT community. They currently don’t allow churches to marry people of the same sex, but it is an active point of discussion and conflict right now. I dearly hope they change that before my dd wants to get married. She wants to be married in her church. I feel confident that God’s kingdom is not better served by her spending her life alone, and requiring that of her would be dangerous to her sometimes shaky mental health. Some people are able to do that, but not all. Didn’t Paul say that while it would be better for Jesus’ followers to remain single, that most weren’t suited to that and therefore should marry? I think if gay marriage had been a thing then, that statement would have encompassed that as well. God’s laws tend to make sense and be what is in our best interest, and that’s the way that makes most sense to me. There’s nothing harmful to being in a gay marriage (the same can not be said for random hookups). 
 

That was not brief 😳. And like I said before, I totally don’t expect you to agree with me. We are different in our Biblical understanding and interpretations. I don’t cover my head and I attend a church with women in leadership positions. Just as I don’t think slavery is Biblically supported because it tells slaves to obey their masters. The Bible was written within a particular context, and for me that is a consideration in interpretation. 
 

No hard feelings, though (as long as you’re good and kind to my kid). 

Thanks, kand. I'll try to be brief, too. It's hard! 😉 

The New Testament does address issues like order in the church, church discipline, etc., so I believe there was, even very early on, a concept of being part of the Church and abiding by its teachings. 

Regarding context: the reason given for the New Testament prohibitions on gay sexual relationships have to do with natural law, something that is, in my view, outside of culture and time and something that applies both in marriage and out.

In regards to slavery--I think there is a difference between condoning something and prescribing conduct for an institution that existed at the time. We know from the Old Testament and the New Testament (1 Corinthians 7:21). that freedom from slavery is a thing to be sought. 

As I said before, I wouldn't protest or vote against civil gay marriage. I would have an issue with it in my church.

God have mercy on me if I am ever unkind to anyone. 

I appreciate your kind words.

[MercyA]

10 minutes ago, kand said:

Just a short clarification that I don’t think marriage and sex are the same thing. I have a young adult who wants to be married, but never wants to have a sexual relationship. That’s a thing. Maybe unusual, but also not as rare as you might think. 

That is interesting. I'm sorry; you did mention your daughter was ace.

I wouldn't have a problem with a celibate gay person joining my church. Admittedly I haven't given enough thought to celibate gay marriages to comment on them at one in the morning. 🙂 Will give it some thought.

Edited January 1, 2021 by MercyA

[RootAnn]

13 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Getting this kind of public health project right seems like a job for an engineer... 

It would have to be a specific engineer. Most (not all, but almost all) of the engineers DH & I know are in the Covid-is-no-worse-than-the-flu, anti-masking, conspiracy theory camp. (DH & I are both engineers.)

Driven by data, safety factor built-in, logistics considered, lots of moving parts, long-term planning... Yes, seems like a great project for the right engineer.

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

It would have to be a specific engineer. Most (not all, but almost all) of the engineers DH & I know are in the Covid-is-no-worse-than-the-flu, anti-masking, conspiracy theory camp. (DH & I are both engineers.)

Whoa, seriously??? Crazy. Any idea why? 

 

[RootAnn]

7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Whoa, seriously??? Crazy. Any idea why? 

It's political.

[Not_a_Number]

15 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

It's political.

Yeah, I guess I'm not surprised. 

[Tenaj]

13 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Tag me if you find them! 

@Not_a_Number  Here's the study from Ohio regarding school and quarantine requirements.

https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/static/responsible/schools/OSCE_evaluation.pdf

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, JanOH said:

@Not_a_Number  Here's the study from Ohio regarding school and quarantine requirements.

https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/static/responsible/schools/OSCE_evaluation.pdf

Super interesting. Thank you. 

So it looks like being nearby in masked classrooms isn't contributing to spread, particularly. At least in this study. 

I wonder how many actual COVID cases they followed? I would also want to see what happens with a stricter definition of "close contact," because the 15 minutes thing seems excessive.

Anyone remember what happened in Israel with the superspreader events in schools? Were the kids not masked and not distanced?  

[1234]

DD’s one in person uni class was a studio art class and was three hours long. There was only one student the entire semester who had to quarantine due to exposure elsewhere. None of the others ever had issues and there was random testing (dd was called up to test twice). I really don’t think classroom spread is a big issue if they are masked and keep a distance. I was ready worried but feel better about it at this point.

[kokotg]

It's very, very clear when you look at the numbers here in school districts with mask requirements vs. ones without (there are large districts in each category near me) that masks make a huge difference. The contrast is so stark that, if I hadn't just lived through 2020, I'd have a hard time believing anyone in charge could look at the evidence and not start requiring masks. It's the difference between incidence rate in schools being similar to in the community overall in districts with masks and it being 2-3 times higher in districts without. Yet the district north of me just AGAIN refused to implement a mask mandate and instead had a contest for students to make posters encouraging mask wearing. And parents complained about THAT because they insisted it would encourage bullying of non-mask wearers. 

In my county, the superintendent claims that the incidence rate in school aged kids is the same in our school district as in the separate, city school system in the same county where schools have stayed virtual so far. I don't have any reason to doubt this, and it's reassuring....my quibbles are that 1. school aged kids are, I suspect, tested at a lower rate than adults and under different circumstances, so it's tough to draw a lot of conclusions based on that and 2. my county doesn't break down cases by staff/teachers vs. students. In places I've seen where it is broken down that way, the incidence rate for teachers is generally much worse than for students and much worse than in the community overall. 

[catz]

2 hours ago, RootAnn said:

It would have to be a specific engineer. Most (not all, but almost all) of the engineers DH & I know are in the Covid-is-no-worse-than-the-flu, anti-masking, conspiracy theory camp. (DH & I are both engineers.)

Driven by data, safety factor built-in, logistics considered, lots of moving parts, long-term planning... Yes, seems like a great project for the right engineer.

Interesting.  We know lots of techie types and engineers including DH (I was a SE in a past life and have 2 tech degrees) and definitely see the opposite here but obviously may vary by location.  I’m sure if your immediate peer group is listening to certain sources and leaning one way, you are more likely to as well.  

Edited January 1, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Interesting.  We know lots of techie types and engineers including DH (I was a SE in a past life and have 2 tech degrees) and definitely see the opposite here but obviously may vary by location.  I’m sure if your immediate peer group is listening to certain sources and leaning one way, you are more likely to as well.  

Yeah, I'm also seeing the opposite, but I'm sure it's political/geographical. (I mostly know computer folk, not engineers outside computer stuff.) 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Spryte]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, I'm also seeing the opposite, but I'm sure it's political/geographical. (I mostly know computer folk, not engineers outside computer stuff.) 

Engineers I know all lean heavily to “it’s just a bad flu” and no masking. They also all lean heavily to the right, so I’m sure it’s a product of their news consumption.