Cuties and cancel Netflix?

[Terabith]

My social media is BLOWING UP with people condemning some movie called Cuties on Netflix, and how it's child porn, and everyone needs to cancel Netflix, and how Netflix needs to be investigated by the Department of Justice for child porn, and also how it's evidence that LGBT is trying to normalize pedophilia, and honestly, the rhetoric just seems pretty extreme.  I went and watched the preview of it, and honestly, while it's not the kind of dance I like for children, it didn't seem any more extreme than any of the many dance recitals I've been to for preteen kids.  The whole thing feels very conspiracy theory/ QAnon, but the people who are posting are not folks who I think of as susceptible to that sort of thing either, so I don't know. 

I'm seriously considering watching the movie so I can give an actual review rather than talking about YouTubes talking about it, even though it's definitely not the kind of thing I usually watch.  

[Liz CA]

DH just informed me of this latest controversy. I have not seen it and probably won't. Let us know - if you do - what you think. Dh has cancelled NF before over some issue but has since gone back to it. LOL.

[Tanaqui]

Netflix promoted the movie in a really bad way that made it all look much more exploitative than it is.

This is an award-winning movie. Most critical reviews point out that it's a commentary against sexualization of young children, not an endorsement thereof. I haven't seen it yet, but my younger kid watched it on her own last week (she wanted to know what all the fuss was about) and she reported back that, yeah, it's not really promoting the sexualization of children.

When it comes to movie reviews, I certainly respect the opinions of people who make their living studying films more than those of people like Ted Cruz, who thinks there is nothing objectionable at all about condemning it without even watching five minutes first.

https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/cuties-movie-review-2020

But, perhaps when I see this film I will find that I disagree with these reviewers and the judges at Sundance etc.

[maize]

I haven't seen the film, but my understanding is that it does have scenes with girls dancing in very sexually suggestive ways.

I get that the message of the film is opposing the sexualization of children; it still seems problematic to me that to craft that message they coached children to act out sexualization, and they display that in the film.

I am not sure the ends justify the means. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by maize

[Terabith]

Just now, Fifiruth said:

Are you saying that 11 year olds were not actually twerking, or that 11 year olds twerking is not a big deal to you and yours?

I'm saying that while I don't like 11 year olds twerking, and I refused to put my child in dance classes that did it, I have been to a lot of dance recitals that had 11 year olds twerking and doing other things that felt very sexually suggestive to me.  So while I don't like it, it doesn't seem outside what our society has collectively decided is appropriate for 11 year olds.  

My ninth grader's dance class in public school consisted of a LOT of twerking.  Again, I don't like it, but it feels like that ship has sailed.  

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Al though I agree with you (and have been horrified by kids dance recitals for a while....it’s one of many reasons I am reluctant to put DD10 in dance)....I don’t think that means people who are freaked out by the show are automatically conspiracy theory/ QAnon types.  

No, if it was just, "I'm really uncomfortable with this," my mind wouldn't have gone there.  It's the rhetoric and rationalizations that are being used, and the save our children hash tag, and just a general vibe!

[Tanaqui]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Al though I agree with you (and have been horrified by kids dance recitals for a while....it’s one of many reasons I am reluctant to put DD10 in dance)....I don’t think that means people who are freaked out by the show are automatically conspiracy theory/ QAnon types.  

 

If they're jumping from "I don't like these scenes" (whether or not they've seen them in context) to "therefore, the gays are evil because they're all trying to normalize pedophilia" then yes, they are.

[Tanaqui]

10 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Well , I will say that....I wouldn’t use “award winning” as some sort of badge of quality. I don’t really consider the awards the movie industry grants itself to be any sort of real award beyond “woo whoo see how cool we are?!?!?”

 

Well, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. In lieu of any other objective measurement of quality, though, I think I'll keep using it. At least until I actually see the film in question.

[Corraleno]

Personally I find that kind of dancing in young kids really gross, but I think it's been really common for a while. I've been to lots of sports competitions in the last 7 or 8 years where there happened to be dance competitions in the same hotel/convention center, and there were lots of little girls running around in skimpy outfits and gobs of makeup. And I've seen little kids dancing that way on mainstream TV shows like America's Got Talent, Dance Moms, various shows about child beauty pageants, etc., which most Americans seemed to have watched without much complaint.  The current outrage over Cuties is definitely linked to the QAnon/#savethechildren thing, and was greatly exacerbated by a very suggestive poster/promo thing that was supposedly very different from the actual content of the film.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Corraleno

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Well, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. In lieu of any other objective measurement of quality, though, I think I'll keep using it. At least until I actually see the film in question.

Yeah, that's why I'm thinking maybe I need to just bite the bullet and watch it.  

[Frances]

28 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm saying that while I don't like 11 year olds twerking, and I refused to put my child in dance classes that did it, I have been to a lot of dance recitals that had 11 year olds twerking and doing other things that felt very sexually suggestive to me.  So while I don't like it, it doesn't seem outside what our society has collectively decided is appropriate for 11 year olds.  

My ninth grader's dance class in public school consisted of a LOT of twerking.  Again, I don't like it, but it feels like that ship has sailed.  

I recently watched a clip of a new TLC show about a very large, very religious family. And when they and their many children were interviewing nanny candidates, they asked them to twerk. I was surprised, but it does seem very mainstream now, even among some conservative, religious people.

When she was in high school in the Midwest, my niece was was on her high schools’s show choir team and I went to several competitions. I was honestly shocked by how sexually suggestive much of the choreography was, but it seemed that most adults in the audience heartily approved, based on their reactions.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Frances

[Tanaqui]

12 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Yeah, that's why I'm thinking maybe I need to just bite the bullet and watch it.  

 

Yeah, ditto. And it may be that you or I or both of us will watch it, DNF halfway though and go "No, that's just egregiously not okay".

But even if that's the case, there's still no conspiracy.

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Fifiruth said:

I think that the MeToo movement has activated more pushback against the status quo of how girls and women have been treated. People are strongly protesting children being used sexually in a movie. In this era of protests, I say more power to them. 

What gets me is that a lot of people that I'm seeing condemn this movie and want to boycott Netflix....I've seen their children dance in recitals that were just as provocative.  It's the irony that's getting me.  

[Tanaqui]

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

What gets me is that a lot of people that I'm seeing condemn this movie and want to boycott Netflix....I've seen their children dance in recitals that were just as provocative.  It's the irony that's getting me.  

 

Hypocrisy is the word I think you're looking for.

Of course, standards of what's "too much" also change through time. LOL, when the waltz was invented it was a shocking and daring dance, just the sort of thing to do if you wanted to make the old folks mad, because you spent so much time pressed right up against your partner - the same partner the whole time, no less! How perfectly vulgar and sinful! For that matter, conservative commenters of the day loved sniffing about the foxtrot - why, I never heard it called that before! And here they are in full view of everybody!

But there are standards, I know, and this might actually violate current standards of decency for young children. I doubt it really is as bad as it's being made out to be, because things usually aren't. But I guess I have to be wrong one of these days.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Tanaqui

[WoolC]

I’ve watched several clips, but not the whole movie.  It’s stomach turning and it does cross the line in my opinion.  This is really not just about some racy dance moves. I’ve never heard of QAnon outside of these forums this week and I’m no conspiracy theorist.  
 

Are we really ok with this:

11 year old girls slapping one another’s butts repeatedly during suggestive dance and simulating grinding/sex 

Girls tugging at each other’s clothing provocatively during these scenes

An 11 year old removing her pants and panties to take a picture of her vagina to post online 

Performing sexually suggestive dances for an audience of two male security guards to get into a blocked door 

A group of girls watching pornography on a smart phone to imitate the moves contained within

A girl revealing her bare breasts during a dance routine

Girls coaching one another in biting their fingers, posing sexually, etc to post content online

For once, I really do think it’s as bad as people say it is.  Maybe the context of the film casts these things in a negative light, but the pre-pubescent girls that were filmed were exploited plain and simple.  I don’t see how this doesn’t violate some laws.  The ends don’t justify the means.

Edited September 13, 2020 by WoolC

[Frances]

1 minute ago, Fifiruth said:

No, no no. It is not common in conservative religious communities. TLC is known for setting up fake, staged “reality” situations. 

I don’t disagree about TLC setting up fake situations. But certainly the family being filmed can say no. Most of the time they are part of the production team. I don’t know if the family in question is part of a particular religious community, but they are obviously very religious and conservative in how they are raising their children. That’s why it surprised me. I mean as money hungry as say Jim Bob Duggar is, I still don’t think he would ask someone to twerk in his house in front of his young children or grandchildren while TLC was filming just for views or ratings.

 

[Frances]

Where is everyone seeing the clips? I watched the trailer on Netflix and didn’t see any of the things detailed above, although I guess I could have missed them because the scenes changed pretty quickly.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Frances

[Terabith]

6 minutes ago, WoolC said:

I’ve watched several clips, but not the whole movie.  It’s stomach turning and it does cross the line in my opinion.  This is really not just about some racy dance moves. I’ve never heard of QAnon outside of these forums this week and I’m no conspiracy theorist.  
 

Are we really ok with this:

11 year old girls slapping one another’s butts repeatedly during suggestive dance and simulating grinding/sex 

Girls tugging at each other’s clothing provocatively during these scenes

An 11 year old removing her pants and panties to take a picture of her vagina to post online 

Performing sexually suggestive dances for an audience of two male security guards to get into a blocked door 

A group of girls watching pornography on a smart phone to imitate the moves contained within

A girl revealing her bare breasts during a dance routine

Girls coaching one another in biting their fingers, posing sexually, etc to post content online

For once, I really do think it’s as bad as people say it is.  Maybe the context of the film casts these things in a negative light, but the pre-pubescent girls that were filmed were exploited plain and simple.  I don’t see how this doesn’t violate some laws.  The ends don’t justify the means.

I only saw one clip, and none of those things were in it.  But yeah, if those things are in it, then I'd say that is inappropriate for sure.  

[WoolC]

4 minutes ago, Frances said:

Where is everyone seeing the clips? I watched the trailer on Netflix and didn’t see any of the things detailed above, although I guess I could have missed them because the scenes changed pretty quickly.

 

This twitter thread contains several of the clips with scenes I mentioned above.  I hate to post it because it really is disturbing to watch.

https://twitter.com/GhostJim4/status/1303771909356650496?s=19

 

[Corraleno]

For comparison, here is a clip of a dance troupe that won their category at a dance competition. The freeze frame in the link doesn't begin to show the extent of the sexuality in this dance (including twerking). These girls are EIGHT years old. Personally I think it's incredibly inappropriate, and I would never have let my DD dance like this at 8 (or 13 for that matter), but the sad fact is that this is very very mainstream in the competitive dance world. This is what wins competitions. 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Corraleno

[EmseB]

The trailer looks like it was made for and by pedos. Seriously gave me the creeps. I don't need or want to see more.

These girls who acted in this movie were exploited by everyone involved under the guise of telling a lesson abouthow bad it is to do that. The fact that it won film industry awards is irrelevant.

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Fifiruth said:

It seems that young people and even children have seen so much sexual content via their cell phones that it is probably something they see a lot.  In this case, though, it’s the adults who know better who are the object of the protests. Our society should not allow directors, producers, and movie platforms to profit off of child sexualization. Their ad campaign really hyped it to entice a certain type of person to see the movie.  

I think that people would still find Tatum O’Neil’s portrayal of a child prostitute in Paper Moon inappropriate and disturbing.

I honestly don't agree about young people and children having seen so much sexual content.  The families I know, their young children don't have cell phones and aren't seeing sexual content, but the choreography of the five year old girls at dance classes are highly sexualized.  Like, dance class is their introduction to sexual content?  

[Frances]

6 minutes ago, WoolC said:

 

This twitter thread contains several of the clips with scenes I mentioned above.  I hate to post it because it really is disturbing to watch.

https://twitter.com/GhostJim4/status/1303771909356650496?s=19

 

Ok. I had to stop watching after awhile because it’s just too disturbing. That said, some of the dance choreography definitely reminded me of high school show choir performances, especially all of the hair flipping. The same point could likely have been made by doing a documentary that featured kid’s beauty pageants and dance recitals. Although I’m not religious, I’m genuinely shocked and appalled by what some dance parents pay for their kids to be taught.

[Frances]

Just now, square_25 said:

Well, I'm not saying you should, but it's definitely making people more aware of it, which is interesting. 

But it seems like it would have been better then to make it as a documentary, filming something that is already happening. It does seem worse to me to make a film where young actresses are being instructed to act this way for the sake of the film. I mean it is all bad, but this does seem worse to me.

[Katy]

We cancelled Netflix over a year ago because of a different movie called Desire with a 9 year old girl masturbating in it.  I found it really disturbing.  And frankly it was the last straw over a previous kid's cartoon called Sahara (that I started a thread about years ago) with a harem of belly dancing snakes in a very sexual scene that would have gone right over the heads of most children but was clearly incredibly triggering for a foster child we had staying with us at the time.  Completely unnecessary content.

I'm not a Q-Anon person AT ALL.  In fact as a foster parent I find exploiting child trafficking for political gain to be incredibly disturbing, and I find most parental fears and social media to be completely imaginary BS.  But there legitimately is VERY QUESTIONABLE sexualized content involving pre-pubescent children on Netflix, and there has been for years.

[Corraleno]

16 minutes ago, square_25 said:

And I think people would argue that the POINT of the movie is to make people familiar with how gross it is. And it's succeeding without us even watching it, lol. 

Yes exactly. I haven't seen the movie, but the critiques I've read of it (by people who have actually seen it, versus people who slam it without seeing it) is that it's about these girls trying to imitate what they think is cool and sexy from media, so they put together this dance performance — which horrifies the audience, who boo and cover their kids' eyes. It absolutely is NOT glorifying the way they dance, it's a critique of the hypersexualized culture that adolescents see around them. The actual plot of the movie is about a Muslim girl rebelling against her parents and trying to fit in with what she thinks are the cool kids. It was directed by a French Senegalese woman.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Corraleno

[gardenmom5]

I've seen stills from it - there's some pretty disgusting things.  I can't imagine there are parents that would willingly allow this for their children - even if it was supposed to be an "expose" type movie to expose what goes on.

[Frances]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Yes exactly. I haven't seen the movie, but the critiques I've read of it (by people who have actually seen it, versus people who slam it without seeing it) is that it's about these girls trying to imitate what they think is cool and sexy from media, so they put together this dance performance — which horrifies the audience, who boo and cover their kids' eyes. It absolutely is NOT glorifying the way they dance, it's a critique of the hypersexualized culture that adolescents see  them. The actual plot of the movie is about a Muslim girl rebelling against her parents and trying to fit in with what she thinks are the cool kids. It was directed by a French Senegalese woman.

I don’t think I’m going to be able to watch the whole film after seeing some of the clips. But it seems worse to me to have parents paying good money to have their very young children taught very sexualized dances and then cheering at their performances and competitions than to have young girls choreograph their own sexy dance routines and have the audience be shocked. It seems like reality is actually worse than fiction even if the dancing is more extreme in the film.

[maize]

24 minutes ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

The movie is markedly worse than this clip, but I find the dance totally inappropriate too.  Ugh. This is why we only do stuff like ballet.

This is one reason I opted for Irish dance. Fun, energetic, and entirely appropriate for children or adults.

We've also done some ballet but my kids so far prefer Irish.

[gardenmom5]

30 minutes ago, EmseB said:

The trailer looks like it was made for and by pedos. Seriously gave me the creeps. I don't need or want to see more.

These girls who acted in this movie were exploited by everyone involved under the guise of telling a lesson abouthow bad it is to do that. The fact that it won film industry awards is irrelevant.

Roman Polanski and Harvey Weinstein were feftted by the "film industry" - so that's isn't something anyone should be using to claim something is "honorable".

[katilac]

34 minutes ago, Fifiruth said:

 I think that people would still find Tatum O’Neil’s portrayal of a child prostitute in Paper Moon inappropriate and disturbing.

Tatum O'Neal as Addie is a child con and grifter, not prostitute. You're maybe confusing her with Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver?

Edited September 13, 2020 by katilac

[Terabith]

We mostly stuck with ballet, although around age 9, it became clear that my oldest couldn't develop the flexibility needed to really do ballet seriously and she dropped out.  I let her take jazz in sixth grade at the school that I didn't love but could live with, and their class worked with our schedule.  She took dance in high school, and it was very heavily into hip hop and lots of twerking, which annoyed both of us, but it was an easy way to get a pe credit, and at 15, I could live with it.  

[Terabith]

25 minutes ago, maize said:

This is one reason I opted for Irish dance. Fun, energetic, and entirely appropriate for children or adults.

We've also done some ballet but my kids so far prefer Irish.

I wish we had an Irish dance program around here.  I think that would have been fantastic!

[Corraleno]

34 minutes ago, Frances said:

I don’t think I’m going to be able to watch the whole film after seeing some of the clips. But it seems worse to me to have parents paying good money to have their very young children taught very sexualized dances and then cheering at their performances and competitions than to have young girls choreograph their own sexy dance routines and have the audience be shocked. It seems like reality is actually worse than fiction even if the dancing is more extreme in the film.

Totally agree. And the worst part is that the dancing in the film really isn't much worse than the actual routines done in competitions — where the audiences are cheering instead of booing the inappropriateness. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Corraleno

[Corraleno]

7 year olds dancing and twerking to I'm a Single Lady

 

[Corraleno]

8 year olds won a national competition with this routine, which includes very suggestive dancing, including a part where the boy is sitting in the floor while the girls all twerk at him while he stares their asses. The lyrics to the music are "When we up in the club, all eyes on us, all eyes on us. See the boys in the club, watching us, watching us..."  Disgusting? Yes. Totally NORMAL in the dance world? Unfortunately, also yes.

 

[PrincessMommy]

There was some uproar over Jodie Foster and (I think) Brooke Shields.  Except it was mostly conservative people and well... Hollywood basically made it out as a bunch of fuddy-duddy religious housewives grasping pearls and trying to take away an artist's free expression of their craft.  I doubt it went anywhere, but it was certainly part of the conversation about how A-moral Hollywood is.

I was young, but I remember it being a thing just not huge because we didn't have the internet.  I do remember people not being very impressed with their mothers' decisions for their underage daughters.   I don't remember boycotting every being a thing until "Married With Children" and that kind of backfired for the boycotters.   I've never been particularly persuaded by calls to boycott but this new movie is gross.  I don't know what the answer is but I hope something positive comes from it. 

However, I can't help but wonder.  I know people say the same "How could those parents???...." with football parents and pagent parents.  I don't know what the psychology of it is and I do wonder if poverty is at play here.  Maybe it is the only way out for some families.   Or maybe there's some need for their child to *be* something.  I dunno, just rambling a bit and feeling very sad for those girls.  They have no idea.

I just finished watching a documentary about the serial murders in Galvestson, TX of young teenage girls in the early 70s.  Back when hitchhiking and walking home was a thing.  Those girls had no idea they were getting the car with a monster.  I feel that same feeling in the pit of my stomach when I watched that clip.  

[Sk8ermaiden]

Pageants and Dance are SO EXPENSIVE, this is not a "way out" situation. I was floored when I found out how much each individual dance competition and costume cost. 

[Farrar]

The reason the woman made the movie was that she saw girls dancing this way and was deeply shocked. So she made a movie that was meant to shock in order to bring out a conversation about it. Netflix really botched the marketing on a number of levels. 

I don't like the suggestive dancing... but also, there's a way in which people who get dramatically up in arms about little kids twerking are also sexualizing those kids. To the kids, it's just dance. It's not sexual at all. Which, as I understand it, is one of the things the film is trying to explore. My understanding is that the pat moral that everyone is condemning is meant to be that neither the Westernized, commercially influenced suggestive dance world or the strict Islamic religious culture the main character comes from are healthy approaches to femininity or childhood. And that's something I can only agree with. 

Of course, I'm not sure how well that comes through. I need to see it... I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Farrar

[maize]

5 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The reason the woman made the movie was that she saw girls dancing this way and was deeply shocked. So she made a movie that was meant to shock in order to bring out a conversation about it. Netflix really botched the marketing on a number of levels. 

I don't like the suggestive dancing... but also, there's a way in which people who get dramatically up in arms about little kids twerking are also sexualizing those kids. To the kids, it's just dance. It's not sexual at all.

To the kids it may indeed be just dance but not to the adults coaching them nor to the adults in the audience cheering.

It is a form of sexual exploitation.

[MercyA]

I watched the whole thing. Any questions, just ask.

Honestly, I just found it to be really dark overall. 

[MercyA]

39 minutes ago, Dobby's Sock said:

I was guessing that the film actually lies somewhere between Roger Eberts review and the uproar happening.  Like, these are actually issues that people/parents should be made aware of and made to feel uncomfortable about, but the film maybe went a little too far.  What do you think??

I think this exactly.

Random thoughts because it is late. 🙂 

The movie does not *promote* pedophilia, other than the fact that pedophiles would surely enjoy watching it. The male relative whom the protagonist tries to appease by acting "sexy" rejects her advances entirely and without hesitation. 

The emphasis is that these are *little girls* who are only copying what they have seen online. They don’t understand the sexuality of it.

Much of the story centers on the child's relationship with her Muslim mother, who [spoiler alert] is trying to deal with her husband bringing home a second wife. Very sad, very dark.

It bothered me that the actresses did appear to be very young. They should not have had them dancing in that way, full stop.

Not going to cancel my Netflix over it.

[Removed something that I said because I was grumpy. 🙂 ]

Edited September 13, 2020 by MercyA

[Farrar]

28 minutes ago, maize said:

To the kids it may indeed be just dance but not to the adults coaching them nor to the adults in the audience cheering.

It is a form of sexual exploitation.

I have definitely known and seen little kids making these types of moves independently. That's part of the point here - that it's so in the ether that it's something that kids themselves see and do.

In the case of the film, they had psychologists and child experts on hand to help discuss and determine what was okay. The parents were deeply involved and chose to do the film because they believed in the message and the discussion it would generate.

[Terabith]

Okay, I watched it.  It's depressing, but the point of the movie isn't the sexually explicit stuff.  It's a girl from a religious Muslim family, who is torn between her family (and she's very upset because her father is marrying a second wife) and wanting to be popular at school.  She is attracted to the cool kids and sexualized dancing that is inspired by inappropriate stuff she sees on a stolen cell phone.  But at its core, it's about her wanting to feel like she belongs, both in her family and with friends at school.  She definitely does things on the internet that are inappropriate (sexy poses and a picture of her vulva), but the picture of her crotch was in direct response to kids at school pulling down her pants and videoing her little girl panties and teasing her.  She was trying to prove she wasn't a little girl, and she just doesn't have the maturity to do it well.  But she was grappling with pretty typical tween issues, just without guidance she should have had.  

Possibly the most disturbing scene to me was when she was trying to make friends with the popular girls at school and they dare her to get a picture of a boy at school's penis.  Someone really needs to have a talk with these kids about consent and what it is and is not okay to do with cell phones.  

She shoved a rival into water to take her place in the dance finals, and it wasn't clear that the girl could swim, although it implied she's okay by showing her grabbing something in the water.  

The fact that these sexy dances were invented by these girls playing on their own actually felt MORE appropriate to me than dance recitals that have been choreographed and costumed by adults.  These are tweens trying to figure out what sexuality is and means and how to use it.  They're doing a crappy job, and they did inappropriate stuff because they don't really have any guidance, but it felt less exploitative to me than many dance recitals I have attended.  

I thought it was a well done movie, even though I didn't like it.  If my older teen wanted to watch it, I would allow it.  I think fruitful discussions could come out from it.  

She tries to use her sexy dances on adults.  They had sneaked into a laser tag place, and she did it to try to keep the manager from calling their parents or the police, and it worked.  He told them to just go on and get out of there.  She tried it on her father, who immediately shut it down.  

I'm not going to cancel Netflix over it.  I don't think anyone needs to be arrested for filming the movie.  I think it's a reminder that parents need to really actively keep the lines of communication open with their children and talk a lot about what's going on in their lives and what is appropriate and how to navigate growing up.  Her internet access needed to be both monitored and discussed, but her family didn't know she had the stolen cell phone.  

[Sk8ermaiden]

I just watched this because of this thread. I don't feel like our talk here about dance competitions has anything to do with the movie. These are young girls participating in a competition that anyone can enter - completely uncoached and making up the dance moves on their own, based largely on what they see online. 

I think the takeaway is going to the be sexualization of "kids these days" and not anything about competition dance. 

I do believe the filmmaker could have made the same points without crossing over into exploiting the kids, but chose shock value instead. I would not be comfortable with any child expert who decided that this stuff was ok for adults to tell 12 year olds to say and do. I'm very  comfortable passing judgement on said expert and the parents of the children. It's not pedophilia, and I wouldn't cancel netflix, but I also do not believe the best interests of the child actresses were considered at all. (I actually think the dancing is not the most problematic part. It's gross but not a whole lot worse than what's been posted on this thread or been on Dance Moms. But It's the rest of it. I would feel differently if it were older teens portraying young teens (like they do in every other teen drama anyway. Why couldn't they do it here?)

I think this could have been a great movie, and could have caused conversations in society and within families, but it goes so far that instead all we're going to talk about is whether this is child porn or exploitation. It becomes about the filmmaker instead of the message.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Sk8ermaiden

[Terabith]

Yeah, I would like to know how old the actresses were.  If they are younger looking but actually in their teens (which is pretty common for a lot of acting), I would definitely feel better about it.  

[Sk8ermaiden]

I know the leader of the dance troupe was 12 in real life, and that at the time of the film release, the main actress was 14.

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Sk8ermaiden

[KungFuPanda]

This thread is the first I've heard of this.  In general I'm all in with choreography so I thought "how bad can this be" and that The Hive is fairly conservative.  I watched some YouTube commentary.  I will not be watching the movie.  Oh HELL no.  I can't even take the clips.  I am a person who teaches belly dance classes to children.  I'm not afraid of a midriff OR moving hips.  Some cultures just have more hipwork in their traditional dances and I'm FINE with that.  This was not a technique variation that is "fine in the context of a culture."  This was just gross. I can't believe the mothers of these children let them do this movie. I can't believe it made it to Netflix. 

I watched "Netflix cuties has gone too far" on Youtube.  That guy did watch the film before evaluating it, which I generally prefer to do, but I just can't. I saw more than enough with the clips in his talk-through evaluation. It feels icky.  The girls are too young.  I think myself a very liberal-minded person when it comes to art and dance, but this is just  . . . ugh!  You never need multiple crotch shots of tween actors. Sometimes I thought Dance Moms went a bit far, but it never ever approached this line.  This is just tone-deaf in a world where the Epstein trials are happening now.  It's tone-deaf regarding France's racial tension towards muslims.  HOW did it make it to Netflix? I'll bet it gets pulled soon.  A lot of people are still stuck at home and have time to write letters.

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Sk8ermaiden said:

I know the leader of the dance troupe was 12 in real life, and that at the time of the film release, the lead was 14.

 

That's a little young.  I probably wouldn't have allowed my kids to participate in it, but I don't think it's horrific that someone else did.  A lot of scenes I've heard described were not shown graphically.  I mean, the girls were smacking each other's butts and sucking on fingers provocatively, but they clearly had no idea what they were doing.  In fact, from a few conversations in the movie, it's clear that none of the girls really are well informed about sex.  They really need a lot more adult guidance than they got.  I would have drawn the line more conservatively over what to show, but the point of the movie was really not about the sexuality; it was about trying to float between her family and find friends.  She does lots of inappropriate things to try to fit in:  not just sexualized dances but stealing.  I find it very unlikely that this movie is going to drive child trafficking.  

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, KungFuPanda said:

This thread is the first I've heard of this.  In general I'm all in with choreography so I thought "how bad can this be" and that The Hive is fairly conservative.  I watched some YouTube commentary.  I will not be watching the movie.  Oh HELL no.  I can't even take the clips.  I am a person who teaches belly dance classes to children.  I'm not afraid of a midriff OR moving hips.  Some cultures just have more hipwork in their traditional dances and I'm FINE with that.  This was not a technique variation that is "fine in the context of a culture."  This was just gross. I can't believe the mothers of these children let them do this movie. I can't believe it made it to Netflix. 

I watched "Netflix cuties has gone too far" on Youtube.  That guy did watch the film before evaluating it, which I generally prefer to do, but I just can't. I saw more than enough with the clips in his talk-through evaluation. It feels icky.  The girls are too young.  I think myself a very liberal-minded person when it comes to art and dance, but this is just  . . . ugh!  You never need multiple crotch shots of tween actors. Sometimes I thought Dance Moms went a bit far, but it never ever approached this line.  This is just tone-deaf in a world where the Epstein trials are happening now.  It's tone-deaf regarding France's racial tension towards muslims.  HOW did it make it to Netflix? I'll bet it gets pulled soon.  A lot of people are still stuck at home and have time to write letters.

I think the difference between Dance Moms and Cuties is that in Dance Moms, an adult did the choreography.  In Cuties, the theme of the movie is little girls with no guidance from adults (about anything really, but including sex, the internet, making friends, and difficult situations with their families) and how kids don't really make the best decisions on their own?  The kids are inventing their own dances with movies they learned from watching inappropriate stuff they shouldn't have been watching (because nobody was guiding them).  It didn't feel like it was celebrating the crotch shots.  I'm not going to be upset if Netflix pulls it, but I don't feel like it was above the pale either.