wuhan - coronavirus

[Arcadia]

18 minutes ago, Pen said:

South Korea now up to 556 cases, on worldometer. 

from CNA https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/covid19-south-korea-reports-two-deaths-123-coronavirus-cases-12461862

“SEOUL: South Korea reported 123 more coronavirus cases Sunday (Feb 23), taking the nationwide total to 556, as well as two additional deaths which brings the toll to four.

The fourth death was a man at a hospital in Cheongdo, a southern city connected to a religious sect, where around 100 cases were reported.

...

Among the latest cases, 75 were connected to the Shincheonji Church of Jesus in the southern city of Daegu, the Korean Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a statement.

Hundreds of members of the Shincheonji Church of Jesus have now been infected, starting with a 61-year-old woman who developed a fever on February 10 but attended at least four church services in Daegu before being diagnosed.

Daegu - which is South Korea's fourth largest city with a population of 2.5 million and Cheongdo - the birthplace of Shincheonji's founder Lee Man-hee - were designated as "special care zones" on Friday.”

1 hour ago, Spryte said:

I have not seen many masks in DC either.  Plastic gloves are an interesting idea, though.  DH is flying to Germany in a few weeks, and will be back and forth between the US and various parts of Europe all spring.  I’m tucking that glove idea away, thanks.

I did buy a box of gloves.  No one is wearing masks here in SE Michigan either except for one lady filling a prescription at the Costco pharmacy today.  Costco had lots of gloves, but I didn’t see any masks.  I just haven’t machine sewed much of anything since middle school so it might take me awhile to make my own masks 😀. I think it I is also likely things will change between now and April.

[Ausmumof3]

Been busy today and come back to see things seem to be escalating even more.  Although still slowing down in China supposedly.  

 

[Pen]

 

https://milano.corriere.it/notizie/cronaca/20_febbraio_21/coronavirus-milano-all-ospedale-sacco-possibile-paziente-zero-tornato-cina-f4062ae6-547c-11ea-9196-da7d305401b7.shtml

Il «paziente zero» del focolaio di coronavirus in Lombardia non è ancora stato individuato. I primi dubbi ci sono stati su un uomo di 28 anni che lavora in una società di Fiorenzuola d’Arda ed è tornato da un viaggio in Cina, ma è risultato negativo ai test svolti all’ospedale Sacco di Milano. Normalmente il manager 28enne trascorre la maggior parte dell’anno in Cina, con limitati periodi in Italia. È tornato dalla Cina tra il 20 e il 21 gennaio, ma è sempre stato bene (e tuttora è in salute), tranne il 10 febbraio, quando ha avuto dei leggeri sintomi influenzali.

 

———-

 

Looks like issue is that the supposed “patient zero,” the 28 yo who had been in China before Italy,  tested negative for Covid-19.  But it also looks like if he had had it, his case was mild and he might have recovered on his own so that he was negative when tested.  Or maybe it’s possible to test negative and transmit the illness.  Or maybe someone else was the real patient zero.

I guess they are also looking at time from when 38 yo was with 28 yo as a problem, but it seems like it has already been shown that long inclinations are possible.   Incubation periods — 

The 38yo who is now very ill in ICU seems to have been a healthy athlete—not old or sick. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Pen

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

https://milano.corriere.it/notizie/cronaca/20_febbraio_21/coronavirus-milano-all-ospedale-sacco-possibile-paziente-zero-tornato-cina-f4062ae6-547c-11ea-9196-da7d305401b7.shtml

Il «paziente zero» del focolaio di coronavirus in Lombardia non è ancora stato individuato. I primi dubbi ci sono stati su un uomo di 28 anni che lavora in una società di Fiorenzuola d’Arda ed è tornato da un viaggio in Cina, ma è risultato negativo ai test svolti all’ospedale Sacco di Milano. Normalmente il manager 28enne trascorre la maggior parte dell’anno in Cina, con limitati periodi in Italia. È tornato dalla Cina tra il 20 e il 21 gennaio, ma è sempre stato bene (e tuttora è in salute), tranne il 10 febbraio, quando ha avuto dei leggeri sintomi influenzali.

 

———-

 

Looks like issue is that the supposed “patient zero,” the 28 yo who had been in China before Italy,  tested negative for Covid-19.  But it also looks like if he had had it, his case was mild and he might have recovered on his own so that he was negative when tested.  Or maybe it’s possible to test negative and transmit the illness.  Or maybe someone else was the real patient zero.

I guess they are also looking at time from when 38 yo was with 28 yo as a problem, but it seems like it has already been shown that long inclinations are possible.   Incubation periods — 

The 38yo who is now very ill in ICU seems to have been a healthy athlete—not old or sick. 

I think the issue was there was no antibodies to the virus indicates he hadnt been infected?  However China has mentioned possible reinfection.  Maybe that means some people don’t develop antibodies for some reason?  I’m not sure.

[Ausmumof3]

“Victoria has been working on its #pandemic preparedness for #COVID19 for some weeks. It's clear that with local transmission in several countries that a pandemic is very likely, if not inevitable. We are working rapidly on planning and surge with our health sector.” Victorian chief health officer

South Korea are using phone alerts to let people know about known coronavirus cases nearby.

unconfirmed reports on social media of possible cases in turkey.  

 

[Renai]

7 hours ago, Pen said:

 

From the News section of Worldometer:

 

• "From the tests carried out, it emerged that the alleged zero patient did not develop antibodies. So he never had Coronavirus. The whole picture changes now" said Deputy Minister of Health, Pierpaolo Sileri.
•  

So does this mean there is a different patient 0?

 

4 hours ago, Mom2mthj said:

I wonder when the Catholic Church will start encouraging people to stop shaking hands at the sign of peace and stop holding hands at the Our Father and stop the common cup.  I remember these recommendations during the SARS outbreak even though it wasn’t in the United States to the best of my knowledge.  We attend Latin Mass now so I don’t have to feel bad about being rude - those aren’t part of the traditional liturgy, but if I didn’t I would for sure keep my hands folded and eyes looking at the floor at this point.

It's not just the Catholic Church that encourages a lot of touch: shaking hands, holding hands, hugs, etc. There's a meme that has been going around FB in fact, essentially telling pastors to "stop telling people to touch their neighbors - it's flu season."

 

4 hours ago, Farrar said:

In terms of the wildlife trade, it's not just the pangolins. There's apparently a high likelihood that the pangolin is responsible for this one, but that's done. The next one could be another animal altogether. Leave wildlife in the wild.

In terms of precautions... I've read that wearing plastic gloves is more effective, despite the widespread masks. Here in DC, I've only seen a tiny number of people wearing masks on the street so you'd definitely stand out a little, just FYI.

Hmmm, so we should perhaps think of buying at least one box of gloves? I saw today Walgreens has vinyl gloves on sale, buy one get one 50% off. They're not expensive either.

[Shoeless]

5 hours ago, Pen said:

 

It would not literally “sterilize” them. But it would do as well as for your clothing which is also going to have microbes on it.  

I think for most people washable masks is probably a good plan to cut down on droplet transmission much more sustainably than using disposable masks.  

They won’t have the tiny pores of an N95 mask, but will help remind about keeping one’s own hands away from face and would be better at stopping things than nothing according to what I’ve read about masks.

Iirc, You can effectively sterilize cotton cloth by boiling, or by ironing with a hot iron.  

But a hot water wash load would probably do a great deal without having a laundry day cauldron boiling away.  

I suspect that a pressure steam setting in an Instant Pot might also effectively sterilize cotton. 

 

Hot water won't sterilize the cotton, but it will sanitize it if the temp is hot enough and you use bleach.  For it to be truly sterile, you'd have to run it through an autoclave, which uses pressure and heat over time to sterilize.   Items in an autoclave need to process at 121 degrees F for 15 minutes at 15 psi.  There are also gas sterilizers that use ethylene oxide. 

I can't say that processing a cloth mask in an instant pot would meet the criteria for sterility.  If someone is really concerned about needing a truly sterile mask, (like for an oncology appointment), they are better off talking with their oncology office about using cloth masks and having the oncology staff run them through the autoclave or gas sterilizer properly. Or whatever other thing the office recommends. 

There are cloth surgical masks out there, like real ones that a surgeon could use, not the ones on Etsy.  I don't remember what the standards are for the cloth they are made of; there has to be so many threads per inch and the stitching has to be just so for them to be considered effective. But even then, they won't be as effective as a disposable mask with a filter layer in the middle.  There are only a few articles on cloth masks (the "fashion" masks that people wear in areas of poor air quality), that I found on line, and they all indicated that cloth wasn't even very good at filtering out smog particles.  Effectiveness really depends on fit, too.  I've seen people walking around with a loose mask that barely covers the nose. 

Glove effectiveness also depends on proper usage. I've seen people don a pair of latex gloves, then touch various surfaces, then touch their face and hair, then go back to touching surfaces. Ack! No! The gloves aren't a magical anti-germ force field. The germs go on the gloves instead of your hands, but if you just go and touch everything with your now germy gloves, you aren't helping yourself at all!   

Edited to add: I think if one were looking to make decently effective cloth masks, you could probably get some cloth surgical drape and make them out of that material.  Any regular type of cotton you find at a fabric store will be way too porous to be effective.  

Edit: I crossed out the talk about cloth masks because a study showed that cloth mask use resulted in higher rates of illness than other masks. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by MissLemon

[beaners]

https://www.cbs42.com/news/local/anniston-fema-center-to-be-used-as-part-of-coronavirus-quarantine/

There's a lot of local news talk about how they are moving people who have tested positive but with minimal symptoms here to Alabama. People are pretty upset about the risk of transmission. We haven't seen much transmission between identified patients here in the US, so these people who have been tested positive aren't my biggest concern. It's the people who have flown under the radar and not been tested yet. I'm disappointed with how few tests the CDC has done at this point. It's hard to catch cases when you aren't looking for them. 

[Arcadia]

From CNA https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/japan-minister-apologises-after-woman-who-leaves-ship-tests-positive-for-virus-12462018

“TOKYO: Japan's health minister apologised on Saturday (Feb 22) after a woman who was allowed to leave a coronavirus-infected cruise ship docked near Tokyo tested positive for the virus.

The woman in her 60s disembarked the Diamond Princess in Yokohama on Wednesday following a two-week quarantine on board, but was found to be positive following another test in Tochigi Prefecture, north of Tokyo.

Health Minister Katsunobu Kato told a news conference in Tokyo on Saturday evening that 23 people who had disembarked on Wednesday and Thursday had not undergone tests since before Feb 5, and the ministry was trying to reach them for retesting.

"We deeply apologise for the situation caused by our oversight," Kato said. "We will take all necessary measures, like double checks, to prevent a recurrence."”

Edited February 23, 2020 by Arcadia

[Shoeless]

Adding this link I found on a study on cloth masks. Conclusion is that cloth mask are not good, because they can retain moisture.  I'm going to update my previous post. 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

[Susan in TX]

"Expanded screening for the coronavirus has been postponed amid issues with a test developed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Although the Trump administration had planned to expand screening to various state and local public health labs, only three of more than 100 such labs nationwide have verified the CDC’s test for use, Politico reported. (Bukryk, 2/20)"https://californiahealthline.org/morning-briefing/friday-february-21-2020/

This makes me concerned that we are missing cases in the US because we are not testing for them.

Susan in TX

[Pen]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

Adding this link I found on a study on cloth masks. Conclusion is that cloth mask are not good, because they can retain moisture.  I'm going to update my previous post. 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

 

However, health care workers is a Different situation than kids who tend to put dirty hands to mucus membranes

[Shoeless]

I don't know if this link has been posted, but it shows a breakdown of every country with a reported case.  It lists the Diamond Princess passengers separately.  Data is broken down in many different ways:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[Ausmumof3]

Another doctor died in Wuhan - age 29 - “One of her patients was diagnosed with coronavirus on January 14 and she suddenly became sick on January 19. Her condition worsened on February 7 and she died at 6:30 a.m. this morning.“

one - she was young and two - she became ill 4 weeks ago and was mildly ill for two weeks before it turned serious. 

[Ausmumof3]

South Korea raises alert level to red and calls for “unprecedented powerful” measures

http://m.koreaherald.com/amp/view.php?ud=20200223000239&ud=20200223000239&np=1&mp=1&__twitter_impression=true

[Ausmumof3]

Also Korea now has 602 cases and 5 fatalities 

[Susan in TX]

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/02/22/costa-mesa-coronavirus/

"A federal judge on Friday granted a temporary restraining order to block the transfer of as many as 50 confirmed coronavirus patients from Travis Air Force Base to Costa Mesa in Orange County."

Susan in TX

[Pen]

34 minutes ago, Susan in TX said:

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/02/22/costa-mesa-coronavirus/

"A federal judge on Friday granted a temporary restraining order to block the transfer of as many as 50 confirmed coronavirus patients from Travis Air Force Base to Costa Mesa in Orange County."

Susan in TX

 

I gathered from an article I read that these are seemingly mildly ill people, but given how it seems to be able to start mild and then turn critical, it seems like a place where more critical care —or at least ventilation support— can be given if necessary is needed.  

Sounds like either DP or USA case numbers need to be revised upwards. 

[Pen]

41 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Also Korea now has 602 cases and 5 fatalities 

 

Do they know how the group who were touring Holy Sites in Israel got it?

[Pen]

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus

I don’t know how good the information on this site is, but it has reports I haven’t seen elsewhere.

[Ausmumof3]

33 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Do they know how the group who were touring Holy Sites in Israel got it?

I haven’t heard about that.  I did see they just sent a planeful back to South Korea minus the Israeli citizens.  I don’t know if Israel has travel bans or not?

https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/South-Koreans-refused-entry-to-Israel-over-coronavirus-fears-618419

Edited to say looks like yes

looks like from here they don’t know yet

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/health-ministry-korean-nationals-who-visited-israel-tested-positive-for-coronavirus-1.8564475

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

Italy just passed 100 cases.

will other countries have travel bans with South Korea?

[Ausmumof3]

Iran has 43 cases 8 deaths.  12 new cases in Japan today.

 

[Ausmumof3]

The ABC understands that doctors and nurses in Wuhan have all signed confidentiality agreements with health officials, which are designed to prevent them from speaking out about local working conditions.

The repercussion of breaching these obligations risks a jail term.
 

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-23/coronavirus-wuhan-hubei-china-lockdown-month-long-look/11983818?nw=0&pfmredir=sm

[Ausmumof3]

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200223_27/
 

elementary school worker who delivers school lunches has coronavirus.  Scary thing is it would be easy to do that.  If you tried to take a day off here for a mild sore throat people would think you were being slack.

BNO report a 3rd death from diamond princess passengers but no word on nationality yet.  

[Ausmumof3]

“From Global Times”

China's central government decides to triple the salaries of about 30,000 medics who are saving lives in Hubei Province, including more than 20,000 doctors & nurses from outside Hubei. In addition, frontline allowances are to be distributed to them.
I’ll

Is this an indication that they are having a hard time getting people to go?  In the abc link above the nurse mentioned some workers had run away and they had considered doing the same.

secondly 30,00 doctors and nurses for less than 70,000 cases as reported seems quite high.  Anyone with nursing hospital experience know more about that? That would be one per 2.5 patients approx. And in fact 22,000 of them are supposed to be recovered so that would be 1 health worker for less than two patients. Maybe the higher numbers are to help manage the quarantine centres.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Carrie12345]

8 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

“From Global Times”

China's central government decides to triple the salaries of about 30,000 medics who are saving lives in Hubei Province, including more than 20,000 doctors & nurses from outside Hubei. In addition, frontline allowances are to be distributed to them.
I’ll

Is this an indication that they are having a hard time getting people to go?  In the abc link above the nurse mentioned some workers had run away and they had considered doing the same.

secondly 30,00 doctors and nurses for less than 70,000 cases as reported seems quite high.  Anyone with nursing hospital experience know more about that? That would be one per 2.5 patients approx. And in fact 22,000 of them are supposed to be recovered so that would be 1 health worker for less than two patients. Maybe the higher numbers are to help manage the quarantine centres.

Ratios were brought up when the numbers were much, much lower, and I think the consensus was that even 1:1 is “low” when considering shifts and multiple job titles/responsibilities.  Plus, what you’re quoting is 20k doctors and nurses, not 30. 

At this point, I think it’s pretty much accepted that the case rate is higher than the official numbers and, even if it wasn’t, those numbers are going to keep growing. Perhaps at a slower rate (or not), but growing none the less.

Here in the US, I have a kid riding with ambulances today, and one putting her application for EMT employment in this spring. I am less than thrilled. I would not be more thrilled with a tripled income.   I suspect my kids would continue to work and volunteer because of the stupid values I pushed on them rather than financial incentive.  Actually, I almost know it for a fact.  What was I thinking?!? 😆 and 😭 

[Ausmumof3]

31 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Ratios were brought up when the numbers were much, much lower, and I think the consensus was that even 1:1 is “low” when considering shifts and multiple job titles/responsibilities.  Plus, what you’re quoting is 20k doctors and nurses, not 30. 

At this point, I think it’s pretty much accepted that the case rate is higher than the official numbers and, even if it wasn’t, those numbers are going to keep growing. Perhaps at a slower rate (or not), but growing none the less.

Here in the US, I have a kid riding with ambulances today, and one putting her application for EMT employment in this spring. I am less than thrilled. I would not be more thrilled with a tripled income.   I suspect my kids would continue to work and volunteer because of the stupid values I pushed on them rather than financial incentive.  Actually, I almost know it for a fact.  What was I thinking?!? 😆 and 😭 

Ah yes I hadn’t factored in the 24 hour aspect of the work.  That makes sense.  I think 30,000 was the total but 20,000 from outside Hubei if that makes sense.  

It does seem like things may be slowing down in some areas based on what people are saying but maybe not Hubei.  
 

Hope your kids stay safe.  

[Ausmumof3]

No new cases in Singapore today - first time since Feb 3 according to BNO 

[Ausmumof3]

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051966/coronavirus-wuhan-quarantine-all-cured-patients-14-days-after?__twitter_impression=true
cured patients in Wuhan will need to spend another 14 days in quarantine after some of them have tested positive.  
so possibly shedding going on for a while after recovery.

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Iran has 43 cases 8 deaths.  12 new cases in Japan today.

 

 

Iran had confirmed 9 deaths and 28 cases yesterday.   The total deaths seem to have gone down by 1.   Worldometer yesterday:

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Pen
Credit to Worldometer for screenshot

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

“From Global Times”

China's central government decides to triple the salaries of about 30,000 medics who are saving lives in Hubei Province, including more than 20,000 doctors & nurses from outside Hubei. In addition, frontline allowances are to be distributed to them.
I’ll

Is this an indication that they are having a hard time getting people to go?  

 

Probably so.  

And they may want to look better for outside visitors.

Not have doctors drop dead from no sleep while a team with Wesyern country representatives watches perhaps 

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

In the abc link above the nurse mentioned some workers had run away and they had considered doing the same.

secondly 30,00 doctors and nurses for less than 70,000 cases as reported seems quite high.  Anyone with nursing hospital experience know more about that? That would be one per 2.5 patients approx. And in fact 22,000 of them are supposed to be recovered so that would be 1 health worker for less than two patients. Maybe the higher numbers are to help manage the quarantine centres.

 

I would tend to think of it as more like 25,000 medical staff for 10,000 intensive care or very ill patients— which would be enough to let medical workers have relief to sleep and eat. 

5000 medical staff for everything else.  

 

And then too the numbers are almost certainly much higher.  But who the medical staff is dealing with currently might more or less fit the numbers as 10x more may be at homes with no care.   Or maybe the much higher numbers cases have already been cremated. 

[Paige]

This thread gives me anxiety. 

I'm feeling a big disconnect between the ho-hum nothing to see here attitude of people IRL, and my own observations that I have never seen countries taking measures like this to fight a virus in my lifetime. 

[Carrie12345]

18 minutes ago, Paige said:

This thread gives me anxiety. 

I'm feeling a big disconnect between the ho-hum nothing to see here attitude of people IRL, and my own observations that I have never seen countries taking measures like this to fight a virus in my lifetime. 

This thread lessens my general anxiety a little bit, because it tells me that I’m not just seeing things that aren’t  there. Other people know something is going on!  It doesn’t do much for my *specific* anxiety, lol, but I’ll take what I can get, lol.

[prairiewindmomma]

I don’t think this thread makes me anxious. My thoughts line up with Carrie’s—I was worried by January 10th—once I realized that it was very purposeful that the US and others weren’t carrying certain news stories helped me relax because finally the world made sense again.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by prairiewindmomma

[Susan in TX]

Another instance of the federal government moving quarantined evacuees and local government saying no.

"The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on Saturday announced plans to quarantine the evacuees at the FEMA Center for Domestic Preparedness in Anniston. Elleen Kane, an HHS spokeswoman, told AL.com the evacuees will be transported next week. The Anniston City Council and Calhoun County Commission on Sunday will convene emergency meetings about seeking court intervention to stop the federal government’s plans . The county commission will also consider declaring a local emergency."https://www.al.com/news/2020/02/evacuated-passengers-under-coronavirus-quarantine-being-moved-to-alabama-site.html

Susan in TX

[Pen]

I see they have raised numbers for DP, but I’m not sure the rise reflects what I separately read about just USA and Australia cases turning positive during quarantine.  

 

 

[Pen]

 

137 now posted for Italy

”At least 26 patients are in critical condition”

 

that’s like what total critical cases outside China plus DP was at not very long ago. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Pen

[PeterPan]

10 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Health Minister Katsunobu Kato told a news conference in Tokyo on Saturday evening that 23 people who had disembarked on Wednesday and Thursday had not undergone tests since before Feb 5, and the ministry was trying to reach them for retesting.

The level of incompetence with this is unbelievable.

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

  10 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Health Minister Katsunobu Kato told a news conference in Tokyo on Saturday evening that 23 people who had disembarked on Wednesday and Thursday had not undergone tests since before Feb 5, and the ministry was trying to reach them for retesting.

 

I missed this originally.  Oh dear. 

(Wonder if Twitter dude is one of these)

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I missed this originally.  Oh dear. 

(Wonder if Twitter dude is one of these)

But it certainly does explain a lot. Sigh.

[Pen]

45 minutes ago, Susan in TX said:

Another instance of the federal government moving quarantined evacuees and local government saying no.

"The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on Saturday announced plans to quarantine the evacuees at the FEMA Center for Domestic Preparedness in Anniston. Elleen Kane, an HHS spokeswoman, told AL.com the evacuees will be transported next week. The Anniston City Council and Calhoun County Commission on Sunday will convene emergency meetings about seeking court intervention to stop the federal government’s plans . The county commission will also consider declaring a local emergency."https://www.al.com/news/2020/02/evacuated-passengers-under-coronavirus-quarantine-being-moved-to-alabama-site.html

Susan in TX

 

We may need one very carefully considered large facility/hospital designated over to this illness.  Where there are isolation rooms possible and also ventilators, and more critical care if needed.

If an emergency portable critical care unit could go to Costa Mesa facility, I’m not sure that would be a bad choice.  109 acres with housing at least for now might offer some separation as between patients. And southern CA might give possibility of going outside and getting Spring sunshine which might help. 

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

We may need one very carefully considered large facility/hospital designated over to this illness.  Where there are isolation rooms possible and also ventilators, and more critical care if needed.

If an emergency portable critical care unit could go to Costa Mesa facility, I’m not sure that would be a bad choice.  109 acres with housing at least for now might offer some separation as between patients. And southern CA might give possibility of going outside and getting Spring sunshine which might help. 

One large hospital for the country???  How would we transport infected people that far?  I just can't see how that would work.  

[Pen]

Just now, Terabith said:

One large hospital for the country???  How would we transport infected people that far?  I just can't see how that would work.  

 

Currently.  

By next year most hospitals may be full.

We transported these people all the way from Japan.   They most likely were already infected. 

[Farrar]

What's happened in Italy is the beginning of the pandemic, I think. It just exploded practically overnight from a couple of cases that were very specifically traceable to their infection to well over a hundred people that they don't know how they got it. That's the next step in a disease like this. It's just going to spread now. I think they missed the ability to control it.

So far, it seems like every single rare bad thing that could happen with this virus has happened. Most of them can't jump to humans, this one did. Most of them can't jump person to person, this one did. Most of these sorts of viruses can't be transmitted until the person shows symptoms, this one can. Most of them have a 14 day window for quarantine, now they're saying this one seems to be longer. I mean, geez. It's just the perfect bad virus.

[Arcadia]

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

secondly 30,00 doctors and nurses for less than 70,000 cases as reported seems quite high.  Anyone with nursing hospital experience know more about that? That would be one per 2.5 patients approx. And in fact 22,000 of them are supposed to be recovered so that would be 1 health worker for less than two patients. 

 

6 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Ratios were brought up when the numbers were much, much lower, and I think the consensus was that even 1:1 is “low” when considering shifts and multiple job titles/responsibilities.  

 

2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I would tend to think of it as more like 25,000 medical staff for 10,000 intensive care or very ill patients— which would be enough to let medical workers have relief to sleep and eat. 

 

I am at the cancer center infusion clinic. One nurse per patient. One standby nurse. One nurse for phone and clerical, like paging the doctors for confirmation or clarification. Internal Pharmacy also has at least a nurse prepping all the drugs. So more nurses than patients.

When friends were in ICU, it was three nurse to one patient in one shift. So about 8 nurses in a day. The NICU nurses need to eat and go restroom too.

[RootAnn]

38 minutes ago, Farrar said:

So far, it seems like every single rare bad thing that could happen with this virus has happened. Most of them can't jump to humans, this one did. Most of them can't jump person to person, this one did. Most of these sorts of viruses can't be transmitted until the person shows symptoms, this one can. Most of them have a 14 day window for quarantine, now they're saying this one seems to be longer. I mean, geez. It's just the perfect bad virus.

Yeah, no wonder some people think it was engineered in a lab...

[Garga]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

This thread lessens my general anxiety a little bit, because it tells me that I’m not just seeing things that aren’t  there. Other people know something is going on!  It doesn’t do much for my *specific* anxiety, lol, but I’ll take what I can get, lol.

 

I tend to live a bit under a rock. If not for this thread, I probably wouldn’t be realizing exactly what’s going on with the virus.  This thread isn’t worrying me, but it did inspire me to have an extra 2 weeks’ worth of food in the house and to get some better vitamins for us—particularly with more vitamin D than we were getting in our old vitamins.  

I usually shop every 2 weeks and the day before grocery day can have us with pretty bare cupboards.  I didn’t want someone to say, “Everyone in your area needs to stay at home as much as possible,” the day before grocery day when I have almost no food left in the house.  So, I doubled up my groceries so that now I always have 2 weeks of groceries (or more if it’s the day after grocery day) on hand.

I told one friend (calmly, without any drama, just stating quiet facts) about the 2 weeks of food and the vitamins and she laughed at me and said I was being silly.  This makes me not want to talk to people about it.  It’s not like I’m stocking up on 50 cans of beans and 50 pounds of rice, but I have a feeling that a lot of people will assume that I’m panicking and hoarding even if I calmly state, “Yeah, I figured I would want a little extra food in case they ask us to stay out of public places.”

It was a little difficult to go to church this morning. They still do the “let’s all greet each other with a handshake,” thing, and the seats are very close together and I was thinking about how we’re all breathing on each other and touching each other’s hands.

I don’t feel anxious, but I do feel like the virus news needs to be noted and some moderate efforts to prepare for a house quarantine should be taken, though the odds are slim that it would actually happen in my neck of the small-town woods.

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Garga

[Paige]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

This thread lessens my general anxiety a little bit, because it tells me that I’m not just seeing things that aren’t  there. Other people know something is going on!  It doesn’t do much for my *specific* anxiety, lol, but I’ll take what I can get, lol.

I've been cautiously concerned since the first reports and then progressively more concerned the more news that trickles in. I'm not generally one to get anxiety but it's starting to itch because I'm like, "Hey guys? This could get bad fast." And nobody in my family is listening even though there are several with "preexisting conditions," that make them more vulnerable, myself included. 

Maybe it's my sociology background and the readings in epidemiology and previous epidemics. I know we are due for another pandemic. It's like earthquakes or volcanoes- if it has been a long time since you've seen a big one, it's time to pay attention. Maybe it's because I've read too many books like the Hot Zone and the Doomsday Book, and watch The Walking Dead...

I know we could still gain control of this or it could die down on it's own as it adapts, but if not, we will be in trouble because people aren't paying attention. 

I'm going to order some more emergency supplies. My family keeps eating my "hurricane and blizzard food."