wuhan - coronavirus

[PinkTulip]

Utah has extended school closures until May 1. As late as this morning, my son’s teachers were emailing about how they would all be back in school next week. I think there’s no way they’re going back this school year at all. (May 22 is the last day of the school year). 

[Shoeless]

On 3/23/2020 at 6:39 PM, Slache said:

Looks like Tuesday night. This is San Antonio, not all of Texas.

 

.

Edited September 23, 2020 by MissLemon

[Katy]

25 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

That is helpful information.  That bothers me that he was so reckless.    I agree, I want to know why all these privileged people are getting tested.  I like Tom Hanks as much as anyone else, but it smacks of elitism that so many rich/famous people are being tested who appear to seem asymptomatic.  

 

I honestly think it's naive to assume that the entire chain of command isn't getting tested daily, the senate weekly, and the house at least monthly. They all care about continuity of government so much it would be irresponsible not to.  I also assume both Trump and Pence were given antibodies by plasma after they were both exposed.  I also think it's safe to assume MOST of the elected government was exposed at the events we know about, let alone the events we don't.

Tom Hanks and other celebrities are in areas where testing is already widespread, but the NBA thing infuriates me too. That was early and only due to elitism.

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Spudater said:

Can anyone tell me what counts as “community spread”?  Our governor just said he won’t be issuing a shelter in place order because we have no community spread, but our county’s district health advised people to self-quarantine for two weeks if they had been to the most affected county in our same state. Does it have to be in the same county or adjacent counties to count as community spread? (Don’t get me started on the fact that they won’t drive through test you unless you’re not only symptomatic but have travelled to a hotspot or been in personal contact with a confirmed case os we really have no idea if we have community spread or not...)

 

(they asked people in our county to self quarantine bc they traced exposure back to the other county)

 

Community spread means you have it but haven't traveled outside your own county for I don't know how many weeks. 2-4 is my guess.

[PrincessMommy]

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

I honestly think it's naive to assume that the entire chain of command isn't getting tested daily, the senate weekly, and the house at least monthly. They all care about continuity of government so much it would be irresponsible not to.  I also assume both Trump and Pence were given antibodies by plasma after they were both exposed.  I also think it's safe to assume MOST of the elected government was exposed at the events we know about, let alone the events we don't.

Tom Hanks and other celebrities are in areas where testing is already widespread, but the NBA thing infuriates me too. That was early and only due to elitism.

That was my original thought.  I assumed it was standard protocol for them to be tested.  Hadn't thought about the therapy for Trump and Pence. 

[Matryoshka]

10 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I think it's community spread if you know where you got it, but it was in public space and locally? So not family, not out of town. 

I think it's also if you don't know where you got it, and you haven't yourself traveled. Because even if you caught it from someone who did, that person is obviously spreading it around the local community. 

[Matryoshka]

10 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I think it's community spread if you know where you got it, but it was in public space and locally? So not family, not out of town. 

I think it's also if you don't know where you got it, and you haven't yourself traveled. Because even if you caught it from someone who did, that person is obviously spreading it around the local community. 

[Paige]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

TIME - Sen. Rand Paul was tested a week ago for the novel coronavirus, but continued working at the Capitol because he “felt that it was highly unlikely” he was sick since he had no symptoms of the illness, he said
 

he tested positive 
 

“For those who want to criticize me for lack of quarantine, realize that if the rules on testing had been followed to a tee, I would never have been tested and would still be walking around the halls of the Capitol,” Paul added. Current federal guidelines would not have called for him to get tested or quarantined, Paul said.

https://time.com/5808407/sen-rand-paul-senate-capitol-coronavirus/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_term=politics_covid-19&linkId=84880950

 

 

Is that supposed to make us feel anything but worse? 

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Spudater said:

Can anyone tell me what counts as “community spread”?  

 

31 minutes ago, Katy said:

Community spread means you have it but haven't traveled outside your own county for I don't know how many weeks. 2-4 is my guess.

 

26 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

I think it also means you don't know where you got it.  So, for example, I know of someone who traveled to a conference out of town, and got it, and gave it to his wife.  That is not, as I understand it, community spread.  

 

13 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I think it's also if you don't know where you got it, and you haven't yourself traveled. Because even if you caught it from someone who did, that person is obviously spreading it around the local community. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

“Community spread means people have been infected with the virus in an area, including some who are not sure how or where they became infected.“

[Ausmumof3]

Financial implications hitting here, with businesses asking how to suspend contracts with dh company and the company looking at option to manage like asking people to use entitlements and then take unpaid leave.  

[mathnerd]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

TIME - Sen. Rand Paul was tested a week ago for the novel coronavirus, but continued working at the Capitol because he “felt that it was highly unlikely” he was sick since he had no symptoms of the illness, he said
 

he tested positive 
 

“For those who want to criticize me for lack of quarantine, realize that if the rules on testing had been followed to a tee, I would never have been tested and would still be walking around the halls of the Capitol,” Paul added. Current federal guidelines would not have called for him to get tested or quarantined, Paul said.

https://time.com/5808407/sen-rand-paul-senate-capitol-coronavirus/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_term=politics_covid-19&linkId=84880950

 

He is admitting that the rules were not followed in his case and he got the privilege of being tested without symptoms. Isn't this exactly what everyone is questioning now: why does a person with symptoms not get a test and a person without symptoms such as the Senator get a test?? BTW/ that gym for senators was apparently closed but the senators accessed it using the keypad at the entry even though it was closed.

On another note, there is news now that senators and their aides sold their stock holdings before coronavirus threat became a real thing.

Edited March 24, 2020 by mathnerd

[Garga]

7 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

He is admitting that the rules were not followed in his case and he got the privilege of being tested without symptoms. Isn't this exactly what everyone is questioning now: why does a person with symptoms not get a test and a person without symptoms such as the Senator get a test?? BTW/ that gym for senators was apparently closed but the senators accessed it using the keypad at the entry even though it was closed.

On another note, there is news now that senators and their aides sold their stock holdings before coronavirus threat became a real thing.

I think senators ought to be tested.  If half of Congress is out of commission and if a bunch of them die, there will be so much chaos.  

However, the next step after the initial testing is to send them all into some serious quarantine: working from home and using skype/whatever to do their work.  We need the leadership not to start being incapacitated for weeks or even dying.

[Katy]

I think if you thought you had it and you tested negative I would still try to stay in for 21 days from onset of symptoms if at all possible.  Mostly to limit the number of people who have something with similar symptoms that could scare them and cause them to take unnecessary risks.

[mathnerd]

14 minutes ago, Garga said:

I think senators ought to be tested.  If half of Congress is out of commission and if a bunch of them die, there will be so much chaos.  

However, the next step after the initial testing is to send them all into some serious quarantine: working from home and using skype/whatever to do their work.  We need the leadership not to start being incapacitated for weeks or even dying.

Well, I am not sure that they should waste precious resources on anyone who is asymptomatic when there are thousands who are dying because they could not be tested. And what if a senator tested negative today, would he be tested the next day again and then the day after that and so on because he is roaming around the capitol mingling with people and using gyms that he shares with others etc? On another note, though I get your point about Congress not being out of commission etc, I am still peeved that there is a secret stash of ventilators for these people which is a classified secret and the stash is unavailable to the dying.

[Guest]

TN governor has refused a stay at home order, but the mayors of most of the big cities and suburbs have ordered one for the next 2 weeks. It doesn’t really change what I do, but it officially closes pretty much all the gathering spots except for grocery stores. 
 

And my medication is “delayed”. I do have a lower dose I can piece together, but I hadn’t expected to be dipping into emergency supplies quite so soon. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by dmmetler

[Garga]

2 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Well, I am not sure that they should waste precious resources on anyone who is asymptomatic when there are thousands who are dying because they could not be tested. And what if a senator tested negative today, would he be tested the next day again and then the day after that and so on because he is roaming around the capitol mingling with people and using gyms that he shares with others etc? On another note, though I get your point about Congress not being out of commission etc, I am still peeved that there is a secret stash of ventilators for these people which is a classified secret and the stash is unavailable to the dying.

Good point that they could have simply been quarantined without being tested first.  

 

8 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Pretty sure there are constitutional rules about being physically present to vote on issues? Not sure how they can get around this. The first stimulus package vote was definitely impacted by absences in the senate, at least as I understand it (and I don’t mean this to be political, it’s merely basic civics).

As far as other day-to-day business, yes, they should be doing it remotely or virtually. 

 

In today’s world, I wonder if there’s a way they could all join a zoom room (a zoom room is an online classroom that many people can join all at the same time), and do something that way?  Surely, they could come up with something?  

But if they can’t, then you’re right.  I wasn’t thinking of that. I’m not sure how it would work, or whether some sort of electronic meeting could be considered them being “physically” present.

[Ausmumof3]

42 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

He is admitting that the rules were not followed in his case and he got the privilege of being tested without symptoms. Isn't this exactly what everyone is questioning now: why does a person with symptoms not get a test and a person without symptoms such as the Senator get a test?? BTW/ that gym for senators was apparently closed but the senators accessed it using the keypad at the entry even though it was closed.

On another note, there is news now that senators and their aides sold their stock holdings before coronavirus threat became a real thing.

Yep I have seen that.  I think that selling stocks is probably a natural response but if anyone did it based on inside Info while the public measures and advice were all “its very well controlled” they should be done for insider trading 

[Ausmumof3]

Go straight home, not to the shops, if you test positive for coronavirus

 

After reports of those diagnosed with coronavirus then going to the shops to buy supplies before self-isolating, Greg Hunt is asked if the messaging on this needs to be changed.

 

"Yes. Look, I think that's a very important question. This was exactly Alison [McMillan]'s point. If you are diagnosed and given a positive test - go straight home. I am staring down the barrel of the camera and saying - go straight home.

  

"There are many means to ensure that you are provided with medical care, critical supplies and medical supplies through the pharmacy at home, home delivery program, which we have stood up and which is now operating for a week."

can’t believe it has to be spelled out 

[Ausmumof3]

One of DHs coworkers was potentially exposed and is ill.  He has poor health anyway.

[Arcadia]

“Cuban doctors head to Italy to battle coronavirus

 

HAVANA (Reuters) - Communist-run Cuba said it dispatched a brigade of doctors and nurses to Italy for the first time this weekend to help in the fight against the novel coronavirus at the request of the worst-affected region Lombardy. 

The Caribbean island has sent its “armies of white robes” to disaster sites around the world largely in poor countries since its 1959 revolution. Its doctors were in the front lines in the fight against cholera in Haiti and against ebola in West Africa in the 2010s. 

Yet with the 52-strong brigade, this is the first time Cuba has sent an emergency contingent to Italy, one of the world’s richest countries, demonstrating the reach of its medical diplomacy. 

This is the sixth medical brigade Cuba has sent in recent days to combat the spread of the new disease abroad. It has sent contingents to socialist allies Venezuela and Nicaragua as well as Jamaica, Suriname and Grenada. 

“We are all afraid but we have a revolutionary duty to fulfill, so we take out fear and put it to one side,” Leonardo Fernandez, 68, an intensive care specialist, told Reuters late on Saturday shortly before his brigade’s departure. 

“He who says he is not afraid is a superhero, but we are not superheros, we are revolutionary doctors.” 

Fernandez said this would be his eighth international mission, including one in Liberia during the fight against ebola.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cuba/cuban-doctors-head-to-italy-battle-coronavirus-idUSKBN219051

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

That's scary.  Is it a medication that relates somehow to the COVID situation (e.g. a bronchodilator or Plaquenil) or is it just that everything is slow now.

As far as I know, it’s just that things are slow. It’s one where a generic is not considered equivalent, so there is no substitution available. They were only able to fill 30 days vs 90 even in Feb, which is why I have the lower doses, but even changing to two partial doses vs a full one is likely to affect absorption and make a difference in response. 

[Pen]

Looks like there will likely be 400,000 confirmed cases globally by sometime tomorrow. 

 

[Ausmumof3]

Now I’m super cranky.  Dh company office staff are on strict - do not come to the office- if you have to come to office disinfect your desk when you leave and where PPE, surgical masks required for access to the warehouse.  Meanwhile the field staff working in shopping centres and hospitals can’t even get gloves or sanitiser because it’s back ordered.  And they aren’t moving toward cancelling non essential field work.  Multinational company.  Maybe when all the field workers are sick they will realise.  

[Ausmumof3]

Assuming a huge lack of testing in Italy but deaths/cases is currently 9.51percent.  
uk is at 5.04percent

 

[Selkie]

5 hours ago, Teresa in MO said:

The term essential business is too broad.  We are under a county wide shelter in place.  My dd works at a nationwide hardware chain.  She text me a little bit ago and said it was as busy as it always is.  They should stress that you are only allowed to go into these businesses for emergency purposes only.  My SIL lives in IL and works at a wholesale car sale chain.  They still wanted her to work.  She told them she was following the order of the governor, but did not hear back from them.  So whether she still has a job is questionable.  It does no good that businesses like these are not closed and people are going out and about as usual.  My dd would be able to get a 6 week leave of absence with no pay, which would be fine, but she would likely lose her health insurance.

In Illinois, car dealerships can remain open for repair services and for car sales on an appointment-only basis. Showrooms must remain closed.

(I only know this because I have the list of Essential Businesses from the Governor's Office right here in front of me.🙂)

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

I'm less annoyed at Tom Hanks, as he was in Australia where testing is much more available (I think?) and I did think he was exhibiting mild symptoms which led to testing.

But they tested pretty much the whole NBA (not necessarily a bad idea since some have tested positive, but from what I can tell completely against the stupid 'standard' protocol, as they did everyone, symptoms or now).  And some other celebrities seem to have been tested without symptoms as well.  

We were testing widely when he was diagnosed.  It’s narrowed now due to the shortages but I think 95,000 tests arrived today which will help.  Probably not enough but something.

[Ausmumof3]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/23/health/arizona-coronavirus-chloroquine-death/index.html
 

A Phoenix man has died and his wife is in critical condition after apparently attempting to self medicate with chloroquine phosphate 

[Pen]

This infographic for our state seems more clear than the written proclamation that led to it: 

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-03-23/despite-official-figures-wuhan-continues-to-find-new-asymptomatic-covid-19-cases-daily-101532880.html?cxg=web&Sfrom=twitter
 

despite no official new cases WuhAn are still finding asymptomatic cases.

back to asymptomatic cases not being counted.  It seems weird that this virus has so many asymptomatic positive tests overall.  

[Ausmumof3]

Australia - the age BREAKING: A female passenger aboard the Ruby Princess cruise ship has died with COVID-19, bringing the national death toll to eight.

[popmom]

quick update: my daughter is feeling much better. still no tests available. Hubby still quarantined in basement. 

I cannot find ANY evidence from a credible source that this stupid virus is contagious during the incubation period. All official websites say it's not impossible but the likelihood is low. Also, contradictory to what someone mentioned to me in a comment upthread, the more symptomatic you are, the more contagious you are. 

[Arcadia]

3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-03-23/despite-official-figures-wuhan-continues-to-find-new-asymptomatic-covid-19-cases-daily-101532880.html?cxg=web&Sfrom=twitter
 

despite no official new cases WuhAn are still finding asymptomatic cases.

back to asymptomatic cases not being counted.  It seems weird that this virus has so many asymptomatic positive tests overall.  

 

“BEIJING: China reported 78 new cases of the deadly coronavirus on Tuesday (Mar 24), with the vast majority brought in from overseas as fears rise of a second wave of infections.

The first new case in nearly a week was also reported in Wuhan - the epicentre where the virus emerged last year - along with three other local infections elsewhere in the country.

Seven more people died, the National Health Commission said, all in Wuhan.

But at 74, the imported cases confirmed Tuesday were the highest since officials started reporting the data at the beginning of March, and nearly double those reported Monday.” https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/coronavirus-covid-19-china-new-cases-imported-12569894

[popmom]

On 3/22/2020 at 9:01 PM, Katy said:

Also, the more symptoms people have the lower the viral load (and therefore less contagious) it is. 

I'm not seeing any data that supports this. Source? Thank you!

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, popmom said:

I'm not seeing any data that supports this. Source? Thank you!

 

There are multiple links earlier in this thread.

[popmom]

Also, (and then I'll leave y'all alone) just fyi, Everlywell was advertising yesterday that they were going to start selling test kits for AT HOME use starting today. I sent dd the money and told her to order when she woke up. Well, apparently they have changed course all together. They are only making the tests available to health care providers and hospitals. That is NOT what they were advertising as of Sunday night late.

[popmom]

Just now, Katy said:

 

There are multiple links earlier in this thread.

ok got no time for that. I'm going with the CDC I guess

[Katy]

Just now, popmom said:

Also, (and then I'll leave y'all alone) just fyi, Everlywell was advertising yesterday that they were going to start selling test kits for AT HOME use starting today. I sent dd the money and told her to order when she woke up. Well, apparently they have changed course all together. They are only making the tests available to health care providers and hospitals. That is NOT what they were advertising as of Sunday night late.

 

Everylywell was on CBS news tonight.  No at-home test kits have been approved by the FDA, and they were marketing the tests as if they were.  They are now not actually selling the tests to anyone unless/until the tests get approved.

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

No at-home test kits have been approved by the FDA,

Why in the hell were they advertising them then? That's just bizarre. What a clusterf***

[popmom]

1 minute ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

This is from Yale Medicine, which I'd consider pretty reliable
 

 

https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/covid-19/

 

yes! but this is in direct contradiction to what someone posted in response to my query earlier. That's why I'm back for clarification.

[popmom]

5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Here’s one. There are lots:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001737

Asymptomatic carrier has as high a viral load as others.

ok but (((asymptomatic))) is very different from "incubation period". Right? i did read the article. thanks

Edited March 24, 2020 by popmom

[Slache]

CDC says asymptomatic transmission possible.

[popmom]

6 minutes ago, Slache said:

CDC says asymptomatic transmission possible.

"possible" is worlds away from "highly contagious during incubation period" which is what Dr. Braly was claiming. I'm sorry if this pisses y'all off. I just cannot stand when people latch on to something as fact and spread misinformation when there is little if any evidence of it. Asymptomatic is not the same as incubation period. I'll go away now lol. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by popmom

[Katy]

25 minutes ago, popmom said:

ok but asymptomatic is very different from "incubation period". Right?

 

Okay I'm not going to quote every link here.  You can google this thread and find the links if you want, but you still won't love them if your plan is to guarantee you won't get sick.  The reality is NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING YET, not even the CDC.  Please do not take random undated articles from journalism majors at Yale or anyplace else as gospel because the news is changing every single day.. Yes, there have been at least 3 instances of separate very tiny, not-randomized observational studies in Western countries (NOT China) indicating that people who are not showing symptoms or who are showing such mild symptoms they don't even consider themselves sick have higher viral loads than people who are showing symptoms.  Not many people have had either the time or inclination to study this because most people are more interested in helping patients than they are in counting viral loads. I don't think a single thing has been published about whether those people observed to have high viral loads ended up developing symptoms later or not.

The very first case of an asymptomatic (or very mild symtoms) case transmitting the virus was in France more than a month ago.  Asymptomatic transmission is not new in the scope of news about this virus.

If you want to be MOST safe, quarantine your husband for 21 days if he has no symptoms.  That's the mean of how long it is between when people feel symptoms until when they are no longer considered contagious.

I never said viral load decreases when you develop symptoms.  I said it was shown that those who have symptoms have lower viral loads than those who don't have symptoms but still test positive.   We don't know how viral load changes in relation to symptoms, we only know asymptomatic transmission is one of several reasons this is so contagious.

 

ETA:  actually the 21 day mean thing is only true for those who no longer have symptoms.  According to China those who die from this continue to have detectable viral loads until death, even after 21 days.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Katy

[Slache]

12 minutes ago, popmom said:

"possible" is worlds away from "highly contagious during incubation period" which is what Dr. Braly was claiming. I'm sorry if this pisses y'all off. I just cannot stand when people latch on to something as fact and spread misinformation when there is little if any evidence of it. Asymptomatic is not the same as incubation period. I'll go away now lol. 

I think the CDC is being gentle because facts are low right now. I do believe it's highly contagious and I've been watching this thing like a cat with a lazer pointer.

Good luck on your quest. I haz the tired.

[Katy]

16 minutes ago, popmom said:

"possible" is worlds away from "highly contagious during incubation period" which is what Dr. Braly was claiming. I'm sorry if this pisses y'all off. I just cannot stand when people latch on to something as fact and spread misinformation when there is little if any evidence of it. Asymptomatic is not the same as incubation period. I'll go away now lol. 

 

Dr Braly linked her evidence in the notes beneath the video.  If we didn't know how contagious asymptomatic people are we wouldn't be needing to practice social distancing right now.

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

Dr Braly linked her evidence in the notes beneath the video.  If we didn't know how contagious asymptomatic people are we wouldn't be needing to practice social distancing right now.

Absolutely. My sticking point is that "incubation period" is different from asymptomatic. Sorry. I said I would leave y'all alone. Somebody just tell me I'm right dammit! 😂🤣

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, Garga said:

Good point that they could have simply been quarantined without being tested first.  

I think that since Congress, Senate, Governors, President, VP, Supreme Court justices and the army/navy/airforce chiefs are all invaluable to our country's wellbeing and there would be chaos if anything happened to some of them (all of them, or any of them) because of the covid virus, it would be a good idea for the secret service to insist that all of them work from home for the foreseeable future for their own security. This thing is so covert and is so contagious, it is as lethal as a flying bullet.

The government officials could easily have Skype meetings, Zoom meetings etc with their staff and their constituents. 

[Katy]

7 minutes ago, popmom said:

Absolutely. My sticking point is that "incubation period" is different from asymptomatic. Sorry. I said I would leave y'all alone. Somebody just tell me I'm right dammit! 😂🤣

 

We have no evidence whatsoever about whether a highly contagious person with no symptoms is in an incubation period or whether they will remain asymptomatic.  It is impossible to know at this point.   We can make some guesses based on South Korea, who have done widespread testing AND contact tracing, and the fact that many people under 44 have no symptoms but test positive, but at this point no one knows the answer to your question.

If your deeper question is what to do about your husband, I think the longest incubation period anyone has mentioned was one outlier case in China of something like 28 days, and I don't think anyone here believes any Chinese research until it is backed up by other countries.

ETA:  We can also say for sure that many people who test positive without symptoms go on to develop symptoms, in an average of 4 days, but again the length of time has only been shown in Chinese research I think.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Katy

[Slache]

4 minutes ago, popmom said:

Absolutely. My sticking point is that "incubation period" is different from asymptomatic. Sorry. I said I would leave y'all alone. Somebody just tell me I'm right dammit! 😂🤣

I think the thing is that we don't know how long until you become contagious. Better safe than sorry. My mom wouldn't survive this and neither would my uncle. I'm questionable. My dad and FIL are diabetic. What's it worth to save my life? How inconvenienced are you willing to be? So we don't know, but we're acting on the worst case scenario.

[popmom]

I really do appreciate this community. Thank you for putting up with my extreme left-brained self. Grace and peace to you all. Lord have mercy. Christ have mercy on us all.

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by popmom