wuhan - coronavirus

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I wear my N100 mask.  It's bulky.  It's hot.  And I start to find it hard to breathe if I'm in it for any length of time.  (Most of my errands are brief but if I am out, I try to combine errands so that I'm going out less.  )  I feel like a dork wearing it.  But fortunately it covers up enough of my face that you can't see my embarrassment! 

I was going into the grocery store the other day and a mom and child were coming in, both masked.  The child protesting, "But Mom, they'll think that I'm in a costume!"   And then he saw me and his eyes got wide.  I waved.  😉 

 

This is precious!

[PrincessMommy]

44 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Canadians are being advised that masks are generally unhelpful for preventing one's self from getting the virus, but that they can be useful to prevent yourself from transmitting it to others. This makes me perceive people in public in masks as people who have symptoms and know it -- and possibly shouldn't be out. I acknowledge that they might also be overly cautious,  or they might be at higher risk and using the really good masks very well, or they might be following what they view as better advice than our local advice. There are definitely other reasons. I'm just saying that to me, seeing a person in a mask gives me the first impression that they, themselves, are already sick.

This exactly!  That is exactly what we were being told from the beginning when there started to be a run on masks.  When I see someone out with it I think, "Why are you OUT if you have the virus?"   Honestly, I wish I had the gumption to actually say that to someone.   In my mind, they are using up masks that the hospital needs.  

[DoraBora]

4 minutes ago, Garga said:

I have a tube-like “thing” that’s supposed to go on your head to cover your hair. I never could get it to work right.  I’m thinking I’m going to wear it as a mask when I go out next.  Instead of putting it on my head, I’ll put it around my face.  I can fold it so it’s 3 layers deep when it’s around my face.  Some pictures: 

 

 

 

I have a few masks left over from science experiments, but I’m feeling funny about social pressure of people wondering why I haven’t donated them to local hospitals.  So, I’m not sure I want to wear hospital-type of masks.  

I've seen several people wearing these over the last few days.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

This exactly!  That is exactly what we were being told from the beginning when there started to be a run on masks.  When I see someone out with it I think, "Why are you OUT if you have the virus?"   Honestly, I wish I had the gumption to actually say that to someone.   In my mind, they are using up masks that the hospital needs.  

 

Hospital grade masks are manufactured in sterile facilities with myriad infection controls. Commercial masks for construction use are not. This is why they wanted/needed FDA approval/liability waivers to make them for hospital use.

[Matryoshka]

1 minute ago, PrincessMommy said:

This exactly!  That is exactly what we were being told from the beginning when there started to be a run on masks.  When I see someone out with it I think, "Why are you OUT if you have the virus?"   Honestly, I wish I had the gumption to actually say that to someone.   In my mind, they are using up masks that the hospital needs.  

Yeah, but as others have pointed out, that is not at all necessarily the case.  No one wants my single,funky smelling 10yo mask from the basement.  But the masks do indeed do something to protect the wearer, or no one would need them. That message was to get people to stop hoarding - though I think by the time that message got out to people here, most stock had already been sent off to relatives in China.  If I have an old one, I'm using it.

Need to get on that sewing project...

[Matryoshka]

11 minutes ago, Garga said:

I have a tube-like “thing” that’s supposed to go on your head to cover your hair. I never could get it to work right.  I’m thinking I’m going to wear it as a mask when I go out next.  Instead of putting it on my head, I’ll put it around my face.  I can fold it so it’s 3 layers deep when it’s around my face.  Some pictures: 

 

 

 

I have a few masks left over from science experiments, but I’m feeling funny about social pressure of people wondering why I haven’t donated them to local hospitals.  So, I’m not sure I want to wear hospital-type of masks.  

Ooo, I think I have something like that - I should try it out over the mask! #lazysewer

Edited March 24, 2020 by Matryoshka

[ElizabethB]

11 minutes ago, Garga said:

I have a tube-like “thing” that’s supposed to go on your head to cover your hair. I never could get it to work right.  I’m thinking I’m going to wear it as a mask when I go out next.  Instead of putting it on my head, I’ll put it around my face.  I can fold it so it’s 3 layers deep when it’s around my face.  Some pictures: 

 

 

 

I have a few masks left over from science experiments, but I’m feeling funny about social pressure of people wondering why I haven’t donated them to local hospitals.  So, I’m not sure I want to wear hospital-type of masks.  

Wear your hospital mask under that!

[Arcadia]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/chile-blocks-cruise-ship-zaandam-sick-passengers-covid19-12570798

“Chile blocks cruise ship with sick passengers over COVID-19 fears

(Updated: 24 Mar 2020 02:40PM)

SANTIAGO: A cruise ship with more than 1,800 people aboard - including 42 complaining of flu-like symptoms - was prevented from docking in Chile on Monday (Mar 23) due to fears over the coronavirus.

The Zaandam, flying under the Dutch flag and operated by the Holland America (Carnival) group, was looking for a place for its sick passengers to disembark before continuing on to its final destination in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, via the Panama Canal.

The vessel set off from Buenos Aires on Mar 7.

Holland America said in a statement that 13 of the ship's 1,243 passengers and 29 of its 586 crew were ill.

"Since it is flu season, and COVID-19 testing is not available on board, it is difficult to determine the cause of these elevated cases at this time," the company said, adding it was following the recommendations of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

All sick people had been isolated and their close contacts put in quarantine, it said.”

[Pawz4me]

9 minutes ago, Garga said:

I have a tube-like “thing” that’s supposed to go on your head to cover your hair. I never could get it to work right.  I’m thinking I’m going to wear it as a mask when I go out next.  Instead of putting it on my head, I’ll put it around my face.  I can fold it so it’s 3 layers deep when it’s around my face.  Some pictures: 

 

 

 

I have a few masks left over from science experiments, but I’m feeling funny about social pressure of people wondering why I haven’t donated them to local hospitals.  So, I’m not sure I want to wear hospital-type of masks.  

I have a Buff. I need to get it out and see how it fits as a mask. I do have a few N95's that I've had for years and years. I think I got a bunch somewhere in the early 2000's when the boys were little and it was a bad flu year. I've only ever used one for dusty remodeling projects. They're hot and hard to breath in. DH and I were given surgical masks at his oncology visit last week, and we're holding on to those. Won't hesitate to re-use if necessary.

Honestly, it's hard for me to believe that people are actually buying the "masks don't protect the person wearing them" line. If that's so, then why oh why are they so necessary for health care workers??? I know they get a much heavier viral load, but still--protection is protection.

[Jean in Newcastle]

10 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

This exactly!  That is exactly what we were being told from the beginning when there started to be a run on masks.  When I see someone out with it I think, "Why are you OUT if you have the virus?"   Honestly, I wish I had the gumption to actually say that to someone.   In my mind, they are using up masks that the hospital needs.  

If you said that to me, you would get an earful.  My wearing a mask (which I bought before COVID19 hit the US because I am immunocompromised) protects me from using up precious ICU space.  And each person in the hospital and especially the ICU has MULTIPLE health care workers having to wear masks and other gear.  The less people in the hospital, the better.  I do not have the virus BECAUSE I am wearing my mask responsibly.  My going out in my mask protects me even further because my unmasked family members will not be out doing errands and bringing the virus back into our house. 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I also resent the messaging that people buying N95s at hardware stores were stealing from healthcare workers. Look, industrial masks were never meant to serve as medical masks. They are made differently. (Medical masks have additional layers and slightly different materials). We now have dry wallers sanding wearing nothing, or maybe a bandana. 
Lean management and just in time delivery contributed to this, but let’s also acknowledge that our local hospitals are burning through x10 PPE(or were, when they had them). Me having a handful of respirators left over from last summer when I was refinishing my deck—which I held over for flu season—was never the problem.

Our local hospital has put out a desperate call for donations. Any unused masks, respirators, any kind of safety goggles, any size bottles of hand sanitizer, even the personal sizes.

I emailed them and said I had three N95 left over from an attic project (I thought they were appealing to businesses etc), and whether they also want some disinfecting wipes - and they said yes, please bring them in. Even a handful helps the people who are most at risk.

My sister is a doctor and goes into the OR with a cloth mask she has to take home every night and boil to sterilize.

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by regentrude

[SKL]

16 hours ago, mathnerd said:

He is admitting that the rules were not followed in his case and he got the privilege of being tested without symptoms. Isn't this exactly what everyone is questioning now: why does a person with symptoms not get a test and a person without symptoms such as the Senator get a test?? BTW/ that gym for senators was apparently closed but the senators accessed it using the keypad at the entry even though it was closed.

I don't know why they tested, but I believe it is appropriate to test all of our legislators and the prez and vp regardless.  There is a strong national interest in keeping the government going.

I don't believe that should extend to celebrities, but again, I don't know why they were tested either.

[73349]

People with colds or allergies may be sniffling and coughing but might need to go buy food, medicine, etc.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Carolina Wren

[Jean in Newcastle]

4 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 I’ve decided to assume that everyone I see walking around is sick, so hurray to anyone who wears a mask! Just think, maybe we could slow this down even more if every single person had access to a mask and understood how to use it.

We definitely would slow it down.  Dh (an RN) keeps reminding me that the whole six foot social distancing thing is really a fiction since the droplets can hang in the air for up to three hours.  I still think that we should social distance - it cuts down on direct spraying of droplets through coughs etc. but my mask is so much more helpful for stopping the virus for me and my household because it is a barrier.  Even if I go into an empty store, I have no idea who was there in the last three hours and whether they were sick, coughing, or anything else. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Jean in Newcastle
typo

[Garga]

21 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I have a Buff. I need to get it out and see how it fits as a mask. I do have a few N95's that I've had for years and years. I think I got a bunch somewhere in the early 2000's when the boys were little and it was a bad flu year. I've only ever used one for dusty remodeling projects. They're hot and hard to breath in. DH and I were given surgical masks at his oncology visit last week, and we're holding on to those. Won't hesitate to re-use if necessary.

Honestly, it's hard for me to believe that people are actually buying the "masks don't protect the person wearing them" line. If that's so, then why oh why are they so necessary for health care workers??? I know they get a much heavier viral load, but still--protection is protection.

Well, I was buying the line. We were being told that if you’re close to someone that sure, especially for more than 10 minutes, and especially if you’re in a confined place with them, like an office at work, the mask is valuable.  But if you’re in a large store and not talking to anyone, the odds of you walking through a cough before the droplets have fallen to the ground were very low. As long as you don’t touch your face, the mask doesn’t really help much.

But I’ve changed my mind and now want to wear something out, just to be safe, but I’m not sure if it matters in a big store if I’m not having direct contact with anyone there.

[Garga]

3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

We definitely would slow it down.  Dh (an RN) keeps reminding me that the whole six foot social distancing thing is really a fiction since the droplets can hang in the air for up to three hours.  I still think that we should social distance - it cuts down on direct spraying of droplets through coughs etc. but my mask is so much more helpful for stopping the virus for me and my household because it is a barrier.  Even if I go into an empty store, I have no idea who was there in the last three hours and whether they were sick, coughing, or anything else. 

I hadn’t heard the droplets could hang around for 3 hours. Not that I don’t believe you, I just hadn’t heard that.  So...yeah, I’m going to wear my mask after all.

[prairiewindmomma]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

We definitely would slow it down.  Dh (an RN) keeps reminding me that the whole six foot social distancing thing is really a fiction since the droplets can hang in the air for up to an hour.  I still think that we should social distance - it cuts down on direct spraying of droplets through coughs etc. but my mask is so much more helpful for stopping the virus for me and my household because it is a barrier.  Even if I go into an empty store, I have no idea who was there in the last three hours and whether they were sick, coughing, or anything else. 

This.  My doctor asked me to wear my mask when I was in his office for bloodwork just before everything shut down. He didn't consider his office, which has HEPA filters in each room, to be safe even though I was there for the first appointment of the day.  With no real access to testing, he had concern that he could be an asymptomatic carrier, or any of his staff could be.  The current guidelines, pre-crisis point, was to shut down exam rooms for a few hours after a known exposure. Once we hit high volume in caseload there was no way to do that. I personally think, though it hasn't been stated, that clinics were shut down not only to donate the PPE but to limit spread from droplets in the air.  They want EVERYONE's exposure to be lower.

[Pawz4me]

Just now, Garga said:

Well, I was buying the line. We were being told that if you’re close to someone that sure, especially for more than 10 minutes, and especially if you’re in a confined place with them, like an office at work, the mask is valuable.  But if you’re in a large store and not talking to anyone, the odds of you walking through a cough before the droplets have fallen to the ground were very low. As long as you don’t touch your face, the mask doesn’t really help much.

But I’ve changed my mind and now want to wear something out, just to be safe, but I’m not sure if it matters in a big store if I’m not having direct contact with anyone there.

My only advice is to be careful. I know a lot of common wisdom is that one big value of a mask is to keep us from touching our faces. But the N95's I've worn in the past were so uncomfortable that there was constant temptation to readjust it (so possibly touching the face) to make it more comfy and a bit easier to breath. And I felt that same desire when I was wearing the surgical mask last week at the cancer center. I'm kind of wondering if the Buff would be more comfortable, so the temptation to tug on it wouldn't be so strong?

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think they don't really think that it stays in the air that long. But yeah, I'm sure a mask is helpful. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-lives-for-hours-in-air-particles-and-days-on-surfaces-new-us-study-shows.html

"COVID-19 was detectable in aerosols for up to three hours"

[mathnerd]

36 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

When I see someone out with it I think, "Why are you OUT if you have the virus?"   Honestly, I wish I had the gumption to actually say that to someone.   In my mind, they are using up masks that the hospital needs.  

No. You are wrong. From what I have seen, many of the mask wearers have been elderly or with autoimmune conditions or reduced lung function. You can not see these conditions from the outside and it is easy to assume that they are healthy. These people are forced to venture out to pick up food from restaurants, pump gas, buy prescriptions or OTC medicine, get toilet paper etc. They wear masks to protect themselves from inconsiderate people who traipse around with a cough or to avoid infection from asymptomatic people. Though I know a person who analyzed micron sizes of droplets carrying viruses and proclaimed that all the masks that we commonly use are not 100% guaranteed to protect, I think that the masks give these people a layer of protection and is better than nothing.

[EmseB]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-lives-for-hours-in-air-particles-and-days-on-surfaces-new-us-study-shows.html

"COVID-19 was detectable in aerosols for up to three hours"

I honestly don't trust CNBC to accurately interpret these studies, tbh. They are the ones saying it lasted for 17 days on surfaces on a cruise ship.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

I think that's under "optimal" conditions, though: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-surfaces-aerosols.html

"When the virus becomes suspended in droplets smaller than five micrometers — known as aerosols — it can stay suspended for about a half-hour, researchers said, before drifting down and settling on surfaces where it can linger for hours. (In the study’s experimental setup, the virus stayed suspended for three hours, but it would drift down much sooner under most conditions.) The finding on aerosol in particular is inconsistent with the World Health Organization’s position that the virus is not transported by air." 

I don't have a whole lot of confidence in the WHO's position on a lot of things related to the COVID19.

My argument for using my mask doesn't change.  Change the number in my post to "not knowing who was in the store during the last half hour" and I have still made my case. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Here's a bit on respiratory droplets: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/  This is the conventional wisdom, heavier droplets fall "safely" to the ground and dry out.  The problem is the "aerosolization" or smaller droplets, combined with air movement. 

There is concern about the movement of droplets through HVAC systems, or air moving through open and closed doors in a hallway.  A study came out a couple of weeks ago about the case of the Chinese man on the bus who was sitting far away from the infected person.  I can't find the study, but here's the news piece: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3074351/coronavirus-can-travel-twice-far-official-safe-distance-and-stay  

Edited March 24, 2020 by prairiewindmomma

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

I was absolutely not arguing with your mask point :-). Just nitpicking. I think "3 hours in the air" sounds a bit more panic-inducing than need be. 

I am unable to link to professional Medscape articles which said exactly what that article said because you have to have a paid membership (which my dh has.)  I don't think that the truth has to be panic-inducing.  I think that facts are facts and the more we have, the better. 

[73349]

For anybody who would like to visit the New England Journal of Medicine re: the aerosol issue, https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973

They used room temperature, which is a likely scenario for many indoor locations.

[Matryoshka]

19 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think they don't really think that it stays in the air that long. But yeah, I'm sure a mask is helpful. 

The tests say the droplets stay in the air up to three hours. It was the day after I read that (and that asymptomatic, non-coughing people spew out droplets) that I stopped going to the gym.  Before that I'd been thinking "not floating in air" and "droplets are only from coughing /sneezing".  Nope on both counts. 😨 😷

[SKL]

Just a comment about the face masks.

I have only noticed 1 person wearing a mask in my county, which is the largest county in a state where the governor estimated we had 100,000 undetected cases nearly 2 weeks ago.

The person I noticed wearing a mask is my kids' classmate's grandma.  I didn't ask why (none of my business) but I assumed she was wearing it because she had high risk factors (age, asthma whatever).  But my kids later told me that she is a nurse.  So I assume she is trying to prevent spread both to and from her patients as well as her family/self.

[Pawz4me]

Mecklenburg County, NC (Charlotte) is going under a stay at home order from 8:00 a.m. Thursday through midnight April 16

[bolt.]

I'm "buying the line" that *only* healthcare grade (and similar) masks work, and that they only work if you wear them properly (as a healthcare worker would) -- so, if so, yes the minimal airborne (rarely aresolized) risk is being mitigated for people who have those masks and know how to use them. They are not "totally useless" -- just very specific, and quite difficult to use well. I very much hope people of elevated risk do have them, and have a proper understanding of their use.

I think that healthcare workers need masks for their normal uses (keeping the germs of the *workers* out of the faces / wounds / surgical openings of their patients). I also think of them as 'elevated risk' because of their frequency and intensity of contact with actual patients, and I consider them likely to be trained and willing to put up with the discomfort, so I hope they can get the right equipment and use it properly in their risky situation.

The advice against simple paper masks and/or other makeshift solutions seems sound to me.

[Matryoshka]

4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think that's in conditions under no air movement. 

Don't get me wrong, we've been inside the house for 10 days, only leaving it once and getting all food delivered. This virus seems ridiculously contagious. So I'm not arguing with anyone to take fewer precautions!!!

I'm not convinced that the air swirling the droplets around, especially in my direction, makes me feel more relaxed! At least not indoors. I haven’t been wearing a mask when going for a walk, I just stay far away from others. People I've seen while out have been good about that too.  But there's no breeze in the supermarket. ..

[mathnerd]

10 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

The tests say the droplets stay in the air up to three hours. It was the day after I read that (and that asymptomatic, non-coughing people spew out droplets) that I stopped going to the gym.  Before that I'd been thinking "not floating in air" and "droplets are only from coughing /sneezing".  Nope on both counts. 😨 😷

Summarizing something that I read somewhere a few days ago: droplets less than 5 µm in size will start losing their water content due to evaporation and then become much smaller at which point their size makes them prone to diffusion (rather than dropping on to surfaces) which makes them linger in the air for hours and hours and they are inhalable and will deposit inside the lungs instead of the nostrils.

[Matryoshka]

5 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I'm "buying the line" that *only* healthcare grade (and similar) masks work, and that they only work if you wear them properly (as a healthcare worker would) -- so, if so, yes the minimal airborne (rarely aresolized) risk is being mitigated for people who have those masks and know how to use them. They are not "totally useless" -- just very specific, and quite difficult to use well. I very much hope people of elevated risk do have them, and have a proper understanding of their use.

I think that healthcare workers need masks for their normal uses (keeping the germs of the *workers* out of the faces / wounds / surgical openings of their patients). I also think of them as 'elevated risk' because of their frequency and intensity of contact with actual patients, and I consider them likely to be trained and willing to put up with the discomfort, so I hope they can get the right equipment and use it properly in their risky situation.

The advice against simple paper masks and/or other makeshift solutions seems sound to me.

Why are they begging for donations from construction companies and hand-sewn masks, then, if it's hospital grade properly worn or don't even bother?

Sure it's not 'as good' and won't 100% guarantee no transmission like proper PPE. Doesn't mean it's not better than nothing at all.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Matryoshka

[TracyP]

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/commentary-covid-19-transmission-messages-should-hinge-science

This article might be helpful. A couple take aways for me 1) close contact aerosol (within 6 ft of infected person) is a main transmission method 2) aerosol transmission in an enclosed area with little air movement (icu room is the example they use) is possible for up to 3 hours.

In other words, social distancing of 6+ feet is just as effective as a mask in day to day activities. A waiting room, otoh, may be a good place to utilize a mask.

 

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I'm "buying the line" that *only* healthcare grade (and similar) masks work, and that they only work if you wear them properly (as a healthcare worker would) -- so, if so, yes the minimal airborne (rarely aresolized) risk is being mitigated for people who have those masks and know how to use them. They are not "totally useless" -- just very specific, and quite difficult to use well. I very much hope people of elevated risk do have them, and have a proper understanding of their use.

I think that healthcare workers need masks for their normal uses (keeping the germs of the *workers* out of the faces / wounds / surgical openings of their patients). I also think of them as 'elevated risk' because of their frequency and intensity of contact with actual patients, and I consider them likely to be trained and willing to put up with the discomfort, so I hope they can get the right equipment and use it properly in their risky situation.

The advice against simple paper masks and/or other makeshift solutions seems sound to me.

I'm really not meaning to be argumentative, but -- wearing a mask properly, even an N95, isn't exactly rocket science. A surgical mask is even simpler. I mean it's a mask with elastic ear loops. That's it. When we were at the cancer center last week and there was a *tiny* question that DH *might* have Covid 19 the nurse shoved masks at us to put on. No one was going "OMG we need to show you how to wear them properly." They're self explanatory for anyone who's had much medical care or even watched one of those doctor TV shows (and I say that despite the reports of true doofuses wearing them over their mouth but not their nose). N95s are a bit trickier, but there are lots of very good videos showing how to adjust one properly. It ain't hard.

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd@Chrysalis Academy

Announcement on Facebook

“March 24, 2020 Joint Press Release: Seven Bay Area Jurisdictions Order Laboratories Testing for COVID-19 to Report More Comprehensive Testing Data to State and Local Authorities. 

Full County of Santa Clara Public Health Department Press Release: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/news/Pages/press-release-03-24-2020.aspx.  

For more information about COVID-19 activities in these areas, visit:

Alameda - http://www.acphd.org

Contra Costa - https://www.contracosta.ca.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx

Marin - http://www.acphd.org

San Francisco - https://www.sfdph.org/dph/alerts/coronavirus.asp

San Mateo - https://www.smchealth.org/coronavirus

Berkeley - https://www.cityofberkeley.info/coronavirus”

[bolt.]

Just now, Matryoshka said:

Why are they begging for donations from construction companies and hand-sewn masks, then, if it's hospital grade properly worn or don't even bother?

Sure it's not 'as good' and won't 100% guarantee no transmission like proper PPE. Doesn't mean it's not better than nothing at,all.

I looked it up, and found only one hospital in Canada is, "accepting N95 respirator masks, which are able to filter out tiny particles, surgical masks that contain coughs, vented goggles, protective gloves and gowns." No one is asking for (or even accepting) hand-sewn masks, expired goods, or even opened packages here.

Presumably the N95 masks will be used for Covid risks to the staff, and the surgical masks (that don't stop viruses) for surgery as usual --  or maybe for patients to prevent droplets from coughs etc from getting very far.

This collection of useful donations is consistent with the advice given about which equipment is valuable in various situations. So, if they are wrong -- I suppose that's possible... but they are consistent about it. There's no indication that they don't believe their own messages.

[bolt.]

13 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm really not meaning to be argumentative, but -- wearing a mask properly, even an N95, isn't exactly rocket science. A surgical mask is even simpler. I mean it's a mask with elastic ear loops. That's it. When we were at the cancer center last week and there was a *tiny* question that DH *might* have Covid 19 the nurse shoved masks at us to put on. No one was going "OMG we need to show you how to wear them properly." They're self explanatory for anyone who's had much medical care or even watched one of those doctor TV shows (and I say that despite the reports of true doofuses wearing them over their mouth but not their nose). N95s are a bit trickier, but there are lots of very good videos showing how to adjust one properly. It ain't hard.

Using ear loop masks to prevent outward transmission isn't what the public advice is aimed at -- although outward transmission can definitely be mitigated by those non-N95 mask, which are easy to use. They catch coughs... it is helpful.

The public info is about whether those masks protect *you* from airborne viruses. They don't.

People with symptoms are not being advised to go out in a mask: public heath wouldn't want to suggest that such actions are at all safe. Instead people with symptoms are being required to stay home. I'm sure they are being given masks if they come into clinics or hospitals though... and not the N95 kind, just the cough-catching kind.

Edited March 24, 2020 by bolt.

[JennyD]

We have not been wearing masks because DH is Asian and the kids look pretty Asian too.   There are very few East Asians here and my family has had more than its fair share of unpleasant interactions over the past 6 weeks.  We are of course very relieved that this sort of perspective has not been in any way reinforced by any Israeli government officials.  Still, the last thing they need is to be even more conspicuous or imply that they are sick, and none of them have entered a store or been at all near other people for many days anyway.  I do all shopping alone, and at this point if I had a mask I would probably wear one.

Anyway, update from Israel:  1656 cases, 3 deaths. Of 1607 currently active cases, 31 are serious.  We are on mostly-lockdown (basically, stricter than anywhere in the US but not quite Italy) and there were lots more police out today.  The government was supposed to announce new restrictions nearly an hour ago but no word yet.  Rumors are that we will not be able to go more than 100 meters from home unless for groceries or medical reasons.

In addition to the cellphone tracking program, the Health Ministry also publishes a map of all public places that infected people have spent time in.  You can definitely see how over time certain communities come to be more affected than others.  In the early days of the pandemic, before the borders were closed, my neighborhood -- which is very popular with tourists and expats -- had lots of points of contact.  Now it has none, but other neighborhoods have many more.

Government researchers also published a very interesting summary about how people have come to be infected.  As of March 22, 47% had been infected abroad, 35% were infected in Israel by being in contact with a known patient, 5% were infected at home by a family member, and for 13% the source was unknown.

Of the 35% infected inside Israel by coming into contact with a known patient, by far the most common place to be infected was a synagogue.  24% were infected in a synagogue, 15% in hotels, 12% restaurants, 7% supermarkets, 7% other stores, 5% yeshivas (religious schools for men), 5% medical clinics, 3% schools, and 3% nursing homes.  (I do not know why exactly the numbers don't add up to 100% -- the study is in Hebrew and I have only read English summaries so far.)

Edited March 24, 2020 by JennyD

[Matryoshka]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I looked it up, and found only one hospital in Canada is, "accepting N95 respirator masks, which are able to filter out tiny particles, surgical masks that contain coughs, vented goggles, protective gloves and gowns." No one is asking for (or even accepting) hand-sewn masks, expired goods, or even opened packages here.

Presumably the N95 masks will be used for Covid risks to the staff, and the surgical masks (that don't stop viruses) for surgery as usual --  or maybe for patients to prevent droplets from coughs etc from getting very far.

This collection of useful donations is consistent with the advice given about which equipment is valuable in various situations. So, if they are wrong -- I suppose that's possible... but they are consistent about it. There's no indication that they don't believe their own messages.

I'm not in Canada. Here there are pleas all over the media, airwaves and social, for people to donate hand-sewn masks, and pages with patterns and links to hospitals near you that are accepting them. Every day we hear news from construction companies and landscape companies who have donated theirs with thanks from the hospitals. Heck Facebook itself donated a ton it had bought for their employees in case the wildfires got too bad there.

You're in a country whose pandemic response team wasn't fired a few years ago, and whose national stockpile hasn't been replenished in years.  My guess is the situation with,supplies there is not so dire. Here, medical staff is being told to wear bandanas if they have nothing else.  Bandanas. 

[Terabith]

The hospital my husband works for is desperately collecting donations of masks, including masks used for construction, but they are not currently accepting the sewn masks that all my friends are gung ho about making.  I don't want to step on anyone's toes, because everyone wants to feel like they're helping at this time, and if I had a mask, I might wear it to the grocery store.  But the hospital isn't accepting them yet.

[Soror]

Fwiw Dh works in manufacturing and they use masks for various jobs but because of their diversion to the medical field for all masks to the medical field they are running out.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 I’ve decided to assume that everyone I see walking around is sick, so hurray to anyone who wears a mask! Just think, maybe we could slow this down even more if every single person had access to a mask and understood how to use it.

This is what I think. 

I have four cloth, reusable masks I bought from Amazon before I went on my trip. I bought them not really knowing how this was about to turn out but figured, eh, might as well; if this virus blows up while I’m in Europe, I will want it coming home. Which is exactly what happened. And now, I use it when I’m interacting with dd while she is in quarantine (she wears one, too). I’m so grateful I have them.

I had to go to stores today and I wore my mask. My feeling is this: maybe it will not help if I’m going to get the virus, but - who knows - maybe it will. I have the mask; might as well use it! But also, I am wearing it because I cannot be certain I am not sick! AFAIK, i’m not sick, but with a kid who just returned from France and is still in the quarantine period, I cannot be certain. So, even if the mask was not doing diddly to keep me from getting sick, it might be keeping my germy breath from unwittingly infecting the pharmacist or the poor grocery cashier. 

[bolt.]

21 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I'm not in Canada. Here there are pleas all over the media, airwaves and social, for people to donate hand-sewn masks, and pages with patterns and links to hospitals near you that are accepting them. Every day we hear news from construction companies and landscape companies who have donated theirs with thanks from the hospitals. Heck Facebook itself donated a ton it had bought for their employees in case the wildfires got too bad there.

You're in a country whose pandemic response team wasn't fired a few years ago, and whose national stockpile hasn't been replenished in years.  My guess is the situation with,supplies there is not so dire. Here, medical staff is being told to wear bandanas if they have nothing else.  Bandanas. 

Wow. I'm sorry things are so deep in your area.

I get that sometimes anything is better than an uncovered face -- while working with patients.

I also get that if *we* can't be sure we don't have the virus, we might as well wear a mask for the sake of others: if we happen to have one.

I wonder if the cloth and other non-N95 masks are used more for the patients than the staff? Just as cough stoppers? The hospital would still need non-virus-stopping masks for some things, so if they have a source for cloth masks, it could alleviate pressure on other higher functioning masks.

Edited March 24, 2020 by bolt.

[Paige]

17 minutes ago, Terabith said:

The hospital my husband works for is desperately collecting donations of masks, including masks used for construction, but they are not currently accepting the sewn masks that all my friends are gung ho about making.  I don't want to step on anyone's toes, because everyone wants to feel like they're helping at this time, and if I had a mask, I might wear it to the grocery store.  But the hospital isn't accepting them yet.

Yet.

They are begging for them here and we aren’t a hot zone featured on tv. 
 

Eta- these are healthcare workers seeking people to make them some for their own personal use.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Paige

[EmseB]

I feel like this is a stupid question, but re masks, how can they keep germs from spreading from someone but not to someone?

I feel like the message is that healthcare workers need them for personal protection, but they won't protect the average person from getting the virus, but if you're sick you should wear one.

[maize]

8 minutes ago, Quill said:

This is what I think. 

I have four cloth, reusable masks I bought from Amazon before I went on my trip. I bought them not really knowing how this was about to turn out but figured, eh, might as well; if this virus blows up while I’m in Europe, I will want it coming home. Which is exactly what happened. And now, I use it when I’m interacting with dd while she is in quarantine (she wears one, too). I’m so grateful I have them.

I had to go to stores today and I wore my mask. My feeling is this: maybe it will not help if I’m going to get the virus, but - who knows - maybe it will. I have the mask; might as well use it! But also, I am wearing it because I cannot be certain I am not sick! AFAIK, i’m not sick, but with a kid who just returned from France and is still in the quarantine period, I cannot be certain. So, even if the mask was not doing diddly to keep me from getting sick, it might be keeping my germy breath from unwittingly infecting the pharmacist or the poor grocery cashier. 

Yes!!!

None of us knows for certain that we don't have covid-19. If I wear a mask, it contributes to me not spreading my germs around.

I've wanted mask wearing to be normalized in the US as it is in parts of Asia for a long time.

[itsheresomewhere]

Bolt- 

They are wearing the cloth masks over the PPE masks.  Since they are having to wear the masks more than one time, they are using the cloth ones to extend the life of the medical masks.

[Paige]

A little off topic but if anyone is looking for gloves, Home Science Tools has a whole bunch. 

[pitterpatter]

I just refreshed the Johns Hopkins map. The world is at 414,217 cases now. The US is up to 674 deaths. That's a goodly jump from an hour ago.

[maize]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

I feel like this is a stupid question, but re masks, how can they keep germs from spreading from someone but not to someone?

I feel like the message is that healthcare workers need them for personal protection, but they won't protect the average person from getting the virus, but if you're sick you should wear one.

 

If a person coughs or sneezes, they expel tiny droplets of water mixed without other things--like viruses. A cloth mask will catch many of these and prevent them from spreading into the air and falling onto surfaces. Also prevents folks from, say, wiping their nose with their hand, then using that hand to open a door.

A mask on my face can still help filter out droplets from someone who sneezes right next to me--but it traps those droplets next to my face not theirs, which leaves me still at risk.

One reason masks do more good on the face of a sick person is that they keep a significant portion of potentially expelled viruses from ever entering the larger environment. 

Most non-respirator masks can't filter out smaller, aerosol viral particles. These stay in the air much longer.

Edited March 24, 2020 by maize