talk about chutzpuh . . .

[gardenmom5]

I just got a letter *asking for money* from the elementary school my oldest attended.  2dd, and 1ds started there, but I pulled them out and sent them to a different school from the time 1ds was in first grade (2dd was in 4th).  . . . . .I have *not* had any kids at that school in more than 20 YEARS, and they're sending me letters asking for money!!! Just wow . . . . I feel like someone should be asking their PTSA  why they think that's a justified use of their funds. 

I had a friend who was the ptsa president there a few years ago - she was horrified at the strong entitlement of a very vocal group of low income moms, who think everyone else should pay their bills, their child should be able to participate in fundraiser activities for free, and they shouldn't even have to help with anything.   yes - that's' what they have actually SAID. they expect the middle and upper income moms to do it all the work themselves, and pay for everything.   My friend was happy to move during that school year - she came to loath that school's "culture".  I pulled my kids out because of years of trying to help with a horrid principle. - all the involved parents were leaving in droves, and teachers had a high turnover.

Edited December 7, 2019 by gardenmom5

[Scarlett]

31 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I just got a letter *asking for money* from the elementary school my oldest attended.  2dd, and 1ds started there, but I pulled them out and sent them to a different school from the time 1ds was in first grade (2dd was in 4th).  . . . . .I have *not* had any kids at that school in more than 20 YEARS, and they're sending me letters asking for money!!! Just wow . . . . I feel like someone should be asking their PTSA  why they think that's a justified use of their funds. 

I had a friend who was the ptsa president there a few years ago - she was horrified at the strong entitlement of a very vocal group of low income moms, who think everyone else should pay their bills, their child should be able to participate in fundraiser activities for free, and they shouldn't even have to help with anything.   yes - that's' what they have actually SAID. they expect the middle and upper income moms to do it all the work themselves, and pay for everything.   My friend was happy to move during that school year - she came to loath that school's "culture".  I pulled my kids out because of years of trying to help with a horrid principle. - all the involved parents were leaving in droves, and teachers had a high turnover.

School asked you for money? Or an individual?

[gardenmom5]

18 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

School asked you for money? Or an individual?

the ptsa - their "president" signed the form letters. I didn't read through the entire thing.  as soon as I saw what it was, I glanced at the signature, and threw it in the recycling bin.

[katilac]

I don't think the fundraiser itself is strange or entitled. It's standard to go outside of your group to raise money in any organization, and standard to ask people to support their local schools. It's a justified use of funds because every fundraiser has expenses. 

I never sent my kids to the local schools, but I still support them. Good schools help the entire community! And any bad behavior on the part of staff or parents is not the fault of the children. 

Anyone who feels that money would not be put to good use can choose to donate books, supplies, or time instead. 

[katilac]

5 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Sounds scammy, to be honest.  

Why? Do your local schools not do fundraisers? It's very common in my area. Schools will do both special events and campaigns (straight request for money). 

[Pen]

From my current rural perspective, I would consider a community fundraiser completely normal,  even if one never had kids at the school.  

In urban situation, it would seem unusual to me.

But, I have gotten fundraiser mailings from places I had a minimal interaction with 30 years ago.  

 

[katilac]

19 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

With non-active students or parents?  No, if it’s addressed to someone associated with the school in the past that information can be had from a thrift store yearbook and forged easily enough.  Active PTO fundraisers tend to target existing students and families in district.

No, it didn't. You can buy all manner of mailing lists, or they may have a database going back many years that they decided to use this year.

The OP didn't say she was out of district. The most likely scenario is that they used a mailing list for people within X miles of the school, and some of them will happen to have had an association with the school in the past. It is also possible they used a mailing list of people who were once associated with the school, but it's less likely. I don't understand what you mean by forged information, either. It's not very practical to hunt down past students via thrift store yearbooks (they aren't going to have parent names, they aren't going to have even old addresses), but it's perfectly legit. 

Many school fundraisers target people who have no existing students in the household. That's how you raise more money. 

I can't promise this is a legit fundraiser, of course, but nothing the OP said screams scam. fwiw, I used to be a professional fundraiser and I still know people in the biz. 

Edited December 7, 2019 by katilac

[KungFuPanda]

I don't think it's remotely weird for a local school to fund raise within the community.  Nor would I assume that that community is populated with a horrible class people because you ran into a few vocally entitled moms 20 years ago.  The community and the local schools effect everyone's quality of life and property values.

I think chutzpah is my daughter's university asking for money when they already have all of our money right now.  

Edited December 7, 2019 by KungFuPanda

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

I don't think the fundraiser itself is strange or entitled. It's standard to go outside of your group to raise money in any organization, and standard to ask people to support their local schools. It's a justified use of funds because every fundraiser has expenses. 

I never sent my kids to the local schools, but I still support them. Good schools help the entire community! And any bad behavior on the part of staff or parents is not the fault of the children. 

Anyone who feels that money would not be put to good use can choose to donate books, supplies, or time instead. 

they're spending money on postage to people with no students in their building, even if they have students at other schools in the district.   I have a student in a spec needs program in the district (he never attended the one I got the "send us money" from).  I've had association with eight schools in this district over 30+ years.  this is the first time I've gotten a "send us money - because we want money" from a school to which my kids were attending, let alone not actively attending.   Normal are: "oh, we're having a fund raiser/auction/carnival/pass-the-hat/book-fair" etc - I've never seen a "we know you don't have a kid at this school - send us money anyway."

and the entitlement thing was something else, shared with me by a friend who was the ptsa president at that school at the time (she actually pulled one of her kids out and sent him to a different district school while she was ptsa president), and based upon things  parents said directly to her.  

 

9 minutes ago, ByeByeMartha said:

I wonder if they dove deep into their old mailing list. 🙄 That would irritate me too...I would feel a bit used... You haven’t had anything to do with them in 2 decades, you pulled your kiddos out of there and you don’t care for their culture, so, umm no, you don’t support them. Didn’t they get that memo long ago?😉

they'd claimed/implied it was because of my ties with the school -  more than 25 years ago.  so they would have had to pull very old records.  

the irony was - the superintendent was changed the year I had finally had enough and pulled my kids out.  a group of teachers descended upon him to complain about the principle and beg him to get rid of her (25% turnover in teachers every year from that particular school).  on top of the flight of involved parents every year.  he didn't know what hit him - he'd only just started.  she got transferred to district (no more dealings with students) for the next school year. He couldn't fire her - because - unions.  - the previous superintendent was her friend, so she was protected . . . . . 

[annegables]

It sounds like they took some pointers from my college alma mater. They are constantly sending money letters that seem to follow us every time we move.

[wathe]

38 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

I think chutzpah is my daughter's university asking for money when they already have all of our money right now.  

And they will still be asking 25 years later.

And if you work for a hospital, your employer will ask you for money.  Mine is constantly fundraising, and sends out letters targeting employees at least annually.

Everybody wants money.

[gardenmom5]

8 minutes ago, annegables said:

It sounds like they took some pointers from my college alma mater. They are constantly sending money letters that seem to follow us every time we move.

 

6 minutes ago, wathe said:

And they will still be asking 25 years later.

And if you work for a hospital, your employer will ask you for money.  Mine is constantly fundraising, and sends out letters targeting employees at least annually.

Everybody wants money.

we all (us, and 1&2 dds) managed to get off their lists.  but we got actual phone calls.

[katilac]

16 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

  I've never seen a "we know you don't have a kid at this school - send us money anyway."

and the entitlement thing was something else, shared with me by a friend who was the ptsa president at that school at the time (she actually pulled one of her kids out and sent him to a different district school while she was ptsa president), and based upon things  parents said directly to her.  

 

they'd claimed/implied it was because of my ties with the school -  more than 25 years ago.  so they would have had to pull very old records.  

 

It may be unusual, it may be annoying, I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with it from a fundraising viewpoint. Expanding your base and using old records are recommended practices, lol. 

The entitlement thing is a separate deal, yeah. 

[katilac]

Just now, ByeByeMartha said:

As long as you brought that up, is anyone else tired of being asked if they want to "round up" every time they're at the store cashier?

Or buy a heart, or whatever. Run a day of errands and you might get asked six times! 

[BeachGal]

Oh, I believe it.

For about five years we were asked to donate money to a private school that rejected one of our kids. He didn’t ever attend. They even sent letters to my husband’s work place. It was an expensive school and they wanted money to help add two more floors to the school. Uh, nope.

[mom2scouts]

3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I don't think it's remotely weird for a local school to fund raise within the community.  Nor would I assume that that community is populated with a horrible class people because you ran into a few vocally entitled moms 20 years ago.  The community and the local schools effect everyone's quality of life and property values.

I think chutzpah is my daughter's university asking for money when they already have all of our money right now.  

Chutzpah is the university calling and asking for a financial donation just weeks after eliminating my husband's job at that university. DH had worked there for 10 years, but the boss needed to look good by cutting the department budget and he needed to provide an entry level job for his daughter.

[unsinkable]

A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.

The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.

Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river, placed her gently on the other side, and carried on his 
journey.

The younger monk couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.

Two more hours passed, then three, finally the younger monk could contain himself any longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”

The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river, why are you still carrying her?”

[Frances]

3 hours ago, ByeByeMartha said:

I wonder if they dove deep into their old mailing list. 🙄 That would irritate me too...I would feel a bit used... You haven’t had anything to do with them in 2 decades, you pulled your kiddos out of there and you don’t care for their culture, so, umm no, you don’t support them. Didn’t they get that memo long ago?😉

You really think the organization sending the letter knows that long ago she pulled her children out and didn’t care for the culture of the school? It’s more likely they just got a list of residents in the boundary for the school. Or some other list. It just seems very doubtful anyone would know the particulars of everyone on the list.

[DoraBora]

6 hours ago, ByeByeMartha said:

As long as you brought that up, is anyone else tired of being asked if they want to "round up" every time they're at the store cashier?

Yes, particularly because I often don't know enough about the charity to which I'm being asked to donate.  So many of the big charities pay their CEOs huge salaries and have lots of expenses.  It seems that they can't just keep things simple.

Edited December 8, 2019 by DoraBora

[Bambam]

Our schools have a high tax rate here (so most of us pay thousands every year). 

The fund raisers they do are for specific things - where kids come around and try to sell overpriced substandard goods or cookie dough. 

The schools are never satisfied with the amount of money they have coming in. Taxes go up. Oddly enough, testing statistics show no improvement. Money is obviously not the solution to the quality of education. 

[gardenmom5]

19 minutes ago, Bambam said:

Our schools have a high tax rate here (so most of us pay thousands every year). 

The fund raisers they do are for specific things - where kids come around and try to sell overpriced substandard goods or cookie dough. 

The schools are never satisfied with the amount of money they have coming in. Taxes go up. Oddly enough, testing statistics show no improvement. Money is obviously not the solution to the quality of education. 

they cry they want the money to go to teachers . . . it never does.  it always ends up in the pockets of administration.  that's one reason why test scores never improve.

and yeah - I'm already paying a lot in taxes for our school district.

[DoraBora]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

they cry they want the money to go to teachers . . . it never does.  it always ends up in the pockets of administration.  that's one reason why test scores never improve.

and yeah - I'm already paying a lot in taxes for our school district.

Exactly.  My school district voted to increase our already-high taxes so more money would go to our schools.  The teachers received another (not quite) cost of living raise, but there are assistant superintendents, area superintendents, curriculum specialists, compliance specialists galore.

It's frustrating.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, DoraBora said:

Exactly.  My school district voted to increase our already-high taxes so more money would go to our schools.  The teachers received another (not quite) cost of living raise, but there are assistant superintendents, area superintendents, curriculum specialists, compliance specialists galore.

It's frustrating.

and some of them in my district are making over $100K a year.  (several years ago a homeschool site was able to post a link that had all the district employees salaries posted.)  that's why I've seen so many teachers jump ship into admin with less than five years of teaching under their belts.

[Hadley]

I have noticed a change in how fundraisers are conducted that I find quite disturbing.  In the past, fundraisers involved an exchange of a product or a service for a “donation” of money.  Today, the product or service has disappeared.  I’m not sure what this is teaching our youth.

I live in a fairly affluent school district, yet every year the kids from the local band dress in their uniforms and knock on doors asking for donations to the local band program.  I always politely decline.  I am always tempted to ask for a donation to my child’s piano lessons, but I refrain.

i have no problem supporting local schools, but I don’t like teaching our children to knock on doors and ask for money.  Maybe I’m just old and crotchety...high chance...

[gardenmom5]

29 minutes ago, Hadley said:

I have noticed a change in how fundraisers are conducted that I find quite disturbing.  In the past, fundraisers involved an exchange of a product or a service for a “donation” of money.  Today, the product or service has disappeared.  I’m not sure what this is teaching our youth.

I live in a fairly affluent school district, yet every year the kids from the local band dress in their uniforms and knock on doors asking for donations to the local band program.  I always politely decline.  I am always tempted to ask for a donation to my child’s piano lessons, but I refrain.

i have no problem supporting local schools, but I don’t like teaching our children to knock on doors and ask for money.  Maybe I’m just old and crotchety...high chance...

I'm with you.   I can understand the getting rid of the over priced wrapping paper, etc.  The kids were selling it, and I'd then be happy to just send $20 with my own child (I wasn't giving it to other kids).   

It just irks me to get solicitations for money from the ptsa of a school where I haven't had any children for nearly 25 years.  and if they're using the excuse of "you live in our attendance area" . . . . well, I live in the "attendance area" of three other schools as well - and they *do not* solicit me for money.

This wasn't a knocking on doors - where it's their own time.  they had to pay to send me a letter - and that came out of money that could been better spent on their projects.

eta: I'm also in an overall affluent district, though there are specific schools that have large low-income populations.

Edited December 8, 2019 by gardenmom5

[wintermom]

Did they use your name from their student registration list? If so, that is private information and should not be used in this context. If they just took names and addresses from the "phone book" there isn't much you can do.

[Farrar]

Oyvay.

It's not personal. They don't know your history with the school.

Sending stuff bulk mail for a nonprofit is really cheap.

Asking for support from the general community around the school for a school - something that benefits the community at large - does not seem like some sort of immoral ask. It's wrong that schools are underfunded, but they are. It's wrong that they need to ask in the first place, but they do.

The poverty shaming in this thread makes me ill. People who live in poverty asking for people who don't to pay a greater share is not money grubbing. Good grief.

[Hadley]

I certainly don’t intend to be poverty shaming anyone!  As I said, the schools in my area are not hurting for money.  I say this as both a former public school teacher and as a child who grew up with very little. I apologize if my comments came off this way.  

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

Did they use your name from their student registration list? If so, that is private information and should not be used in this context. If they just took names and addresses from the "phone book" there isn't much you can do.

not from the phone book - we're not in it, and haven't been for years.   it specifically stated "your connections with the school".  (25 years ago . . .  )

[chiguirre]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

not from the phone book - we're not in it, and haven't been for years.   it specifically stated "your connections with the school".  (25 years ago . . .  )

They probably did a search of enrolled students of any age by geographic boundary. You live in their enrollment area even though your ds didn't attend the school. Farrar's right about the cost of bulk mailings, but it's only cheap to do if you generate your addresses from an existing data base without a human having to go through it to weed out the special cases. It's fine to recycle the solicitation without giving it another thought.

[May]

10 hours ago, Hadley said:

I have noticed a change in how fundraisers are conducted that I find quite disturbing.  In the past, fundraisers involved an exchange of a product or a service for a “donation” of money.  Today, the product or service has disappeared.  I’m not sure what this is teaching our youth.

I live in a fairly affluent school district, yet every year the kids from the local band dress in their uniforms and knock on doors asking for donations to the local band program.  I always politely decline.  I am always tempted to ask for a donation to my child’s piano lessons, but I refrain.

i have no problem supporting local schools, but I don’t like teaching our children to knock on doors and ask for money.  Maybe I’m just old and crotchety...high chance...

If you’re old and crotchety, I’m right there with you. I live in Fairfax County VA, one of the wealthiest countries in VA. I’ve lost track of the number of sports teams, music groups, etc, that come knocking on my door, wanting a donation for their program or team. I live close to the high school and I also see the cars these kids drive.😳. DH and I never solicited strangers or family to pay for our kids music lessons, private school tuition or all those extras. 

[SamanthaCarter]

I regularly get hit up for money for the local public school clubs and sports, even though I’ve never sent my kids there. I don’t find it surprising. We live here. 

[wintermom]

nm

Edited December 9, 2019 by wintermom

[wintermom]

6 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

not from the phone book - we're not in it, and haven't been for years.   it specifically stated "your connections with the school".  (25 years ago . . .  )

You could contact the school and ask them to delete your name from their mailing list. 

[Farrar]

3 hours ago, Margaret in CO said:

I don't think it's poverty shaming to expect the kids to DO something for support.

Well, one, expressing the view that someone thinks the kids should be involved in and run fundraisers rather than the organization sending out mailers asking for direct donations is not at all what I would consider poverty shaming either. However, I will point out that PTSA's simply cannot win with this stuff. For every person who think the kids should "earn" it, there's a family who is sick of it and would much, much rather they just asked for the cash. Regardless, that's not the issue I see here.

But two, PTSA's in many schools run essential programs. They pay for reading and math tutors, for teaching assistants, for lunches, for arts education, for basic field trips, for books to stock the library, for textbooks, for computers. Honestly, I think this stuff is pretty basic. Asking kids to pitch in for a ski trip or a DC trip or band trip to a big parade... yes. Yes, do that. Asking kids to earn the cash to fund their own basic educations? I'm not really on board, regardless of the average incomes in their communities.

 

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, May said:

If you’re old and crotchety, I’m right there with you. I live in Fairfax County VA, one of the wealthiest countries in VA. I’ve lost track of the number of sports teams, music groups, etc, that come knocking on my door, wanting a donation for their program or team. I live close to the high school and I also see the cars these kids drive.😳. DH and I never solicited strangers or family to pay for our kids music lessons, private school tuition or all those extras. 

Schools in wealthy communities get more funding than schools in poor communities, at least on average. However, that doesn't mean that they're well funded.

The PP spending in Fairfax is about 15k. Not only is Fairfax County one of the wealthiest in the country, it's also has a very high col, so paying staff and retaining spaces have a higher cost than average. But PP spending in Fairfax County isn't that much more than the national average. And it's less than in neighboring DC, MoCo, and Arlington.