Faltering car, lots of repairs, what to do?

[Janeway]

Husband drives a 2004 Honda Civic we bought while I was pregnant with 15 yr old. It really was ready to be replaced a while ago, but we spent thousands on repairs. Now, things are failing again. The electric locks recently stopped working, which we are guessing is a sign of other electric things to fail soon.  We have already repaired several things. We do not want to be hit with thousands of dollars in repair bills. We have the money to replace it, but have been waiting because we think 15 yr old will need the car for college.  15 yr old is likely to do ROTC in college and when I have looked in to ROTC at colleges recently, it seems it is often held off campus (at least at the most likely colleges so far). Also, I think there is a decent chance he will go to community college, which means he will have to drive to school. We do not have any sort of public transportation in our town. 

 

Question is..is it even worth still hanging on to the car and maybe keep repairing it with the idea that in two and a half years, it will possibly go to 15 yr old? I had originally actually thought it would maybe go on to 18 yr old, but he is too anxious to drive. I am suspecting it is a bad idea to keep holding on to it. 15 yr old is already talking about how he will be driving himself to school next year and dance and everything else. And we actually question if he will be responsible enough for that. We do not feel he is responsible enough now.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Janeway

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Husband drives a 2004 Honda Civic we bought while I was pregnant with 15 yr old. It really was ready to be replaced a while ago, but we spent thousands on repairs. Now, things are failing again. The electric locks recently stopped working, which we are guessing is a sign of other electric things to fail soon.  We have already repaired several things. We do not want to be hit with thousands of dollars in repair bills. We have the money to replace it, but have been waiting because we think 15 yr old will need the car for college.  15 yr old is likely to do ROTC in college and when I have looked in to ROTC at colleges recently, it seems it is often held off campus (at least at the most likely colleges so far). Also, I think there is a decent chance he will go to community college, which means he will have to drive to school. We do not have any sort of public transportation in our town. 

 

Question is..is it even worth still hanging on to the car and maybe keep repairing it with the idea that in two and a half years, it will possibly go to 15 yr old? I had originally actually thought it would maybe go on to 18 yr old, but he is too anxious to drive. I am suspecting it is a bad idea to keep holding on to it. 15 yr old is already talking about how he will be driving himself to school next year and dance and everything else. And we actually question if he will be responsible enough for that. We do not feel he is responsible enough now.

I am surprised it needs $1000s of repairs.  Usually those cars will go forever with minimal repairs and normal upkeep.  But it is already 15 years old and you are at least a year away from the 15 year old driving so it might be time to cut your losses and then look for some similar Toyota or Honda when your 15 is ready to drive. 

[Chris in VA]

We have Toyotas a year older, so I get it. Dd got the 2002 for college last year and it runs fine. I am surprised you had to repair so much. But dh does our repairs so I don't know that maybe we also put 1000s into it. 

In your case I would probably sell it and find a very slightly newer Toy. Put the grand you would spend towards the newer car. You can prob get 1500 or more for it and then could probably find a beater Toy for about 3 or 4K. 

[Bambam]

I'd be tempted to offload the 15 year old Honda Civic. I don't know that you will get much for it though. I am surprised you spent so much in repair bills. We've had many Hondas and kept them many thousands of miles, and our repair bills have been limited to clutch replacements (manual transmission), replacement of one drive motor for a window,  and a couple of A/C problems (essential here in Texas, otherwise we probably would have lived without)  - if you exclude that horrible Odyssey transmission problem (that Honda picked up the cost for a couple of times). 

I'd look for a new used Honda/Toyota for the kids to drive.  The new safety features in newer cars are very nice. 

Kids always think they are ready and mature enough to drive wherever they want. Parents know and should do what is appropriate. 

[Jann in TX]

You are right at the tipping point-- where the cost of repairs is about the same as the value of the car.

If it were in good working order then I would not hesitate to keep it (my dd drives dh's 1997 Civic-- but that is probably on its last year).  Electrical issues can add up quickly...how necessary is a reliable car?  If you son uses it and it breaks down would he easily be able to find rides to where he needs to go?  Would he have the funds to keep repairing the car (and pay for towing!)?

 

 

 

[PrincessMommy]

Another surprised honda owner, but I do get it too.  My dh's car is a 2003.  It's been making weird noises for years but our friend/mechanic said it isn't something worth fixing and it isn't dangerous, it will just continue to go bad over the years.   Now the clutch is going.   And, I hit a deer when driving it last month. 😕  Our friend is going to show dh and ds how to fix the dent themselves and friend will fix the clutch.  

What we've done is bought another car for dh (2006 BMW) and we're keeping the honda for ds. He won't be using it for long-distance anyway.  So we should be good.  I've found that, once kids have their driver's licenses, they are gone a lot more.  I'm the one that loses access to a vehicle, not dh, so I've been pushing for dh to get an upgrade.

Another way to think about it is it's not so much paying for the cost of the existing car, you also have to take into account how much money it costs to replace the car.  We've sometimes lost track of that and regretted not fixing a car we liked and saving for something else.  

[WendyLady]

As someone driving a 2004 car I get it! It feels like a ticking time bomb, but fortunately (or unfortunately?) mine is still going strong. (It’s a suburban, so it will never go to college except to carry all the luggage...) (we are considering replacing it for mostly vanity reasons, but I will likely drive it another year. I think your civic will be much easier to sell!) 

If you can hold onto it for a teen driver, and keep it running, even with little problems, it might be worth keeping, if you can buy a different car for your dh? I assume your 15 year old will be driving soon? Maybe some of the issues are things he can study on YouTube and solve? My dh is our mechanic and he and ds16 are enjoying working on our son’s ‘96 4Runner, which often involves days of YouTube research.

Both of my girls are doing ROTC at college, no car needed - which is great because if they had to drive across town it would be a lot of driving - pt twice a week (at like 6:30am) classes twice a week, other activities once or three times a week.... Their rotc detachment does include kids from another college nearby and a car or an rotc friend with the same schedule and a car would be needed.  But a lot could change for your son between now and college! 

 

[Pen]

5 hours ago, Janeway said:

Husband drives a 2004 Honda Civic we bought while I was pregnant with 15 yr old. It really was ready to be replaced a while ago, but we spent thousands on repairs. Now, things are failing again. The electric locks recently stopped working, which we are guessing is a sign of other electric things to fail soon.  We have already repaired several things. We do not want to be hit with thousands of dollars in repair bills. We have the money to replace it, but have been waiting because we think 15 yr old will need the car for college.  15 yr old is likely to do ROTC in college and when I have looked in to ROTC at colleges recently, it seems it is often held off campus (at least at the most likely colleges so far). Also, I think there is a decent chance he will go to community college, which means he will have to drive to school. We do not have any sort of public transportation in our town. 

 

Question is..is it even worth still hanging on to the car and maybe keep repairing it with the idea that in two and a half years, it will possibly go to 15 yr old? I had originally actually thought it would maybe go on to 18 yr old, but he is too anxious to drive. I am suspecting it is a bad idea to keep holding on to it. 15 yr old is already talking about how he will be driving himself to school next year and dance and everything else. And we actually question if he will be responsible enough for that. We do not feel he is responsible enough now.

 

It’s extremely hard to know what to do and whatever choice you make is likely to seem to be wrong one. IME 🙁

My 17 almost 18 yo is finally about to get license. I tried holding onto an older Honda as you are now thinking to do, but it is not going to work now for safety for new driver after this much time, and not enough driving (cars don’t do well just sitting unless you have an excellent garage for them, and maybe not even then, as rubber etc ages just from time, it seems) 

Also if the car doesn’t have Electronic Stability Control (VSA Vehicle Stability System in Honda) that’s now recommended as being as important for young drivers as seat belts. 

Actually, if it hasn’t got VSA I’d probably let it go. ETA: Our 1992 Accord doesn’t have VSA, our 2008 Ridgeline does.  I think probably the 2004 Civic won’t, but is probably right around when Honda was starting to put them in. So check.  

But, if your 15yo is about to get Learner Permit, consider whether the Civic (as is) would be easier to start learning in than whatever else you have.   We have an old Accord and a pickup, and my son found the Accord much easier to learn in at first than the truck.  So it was a help for that, but I’d be afraid now to have him driving it as his first car. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Pen

[Lanny]

If another car is purchased, I suggest adding the KIA brand to the mix. Many of our neighbors have KIAs and according to the JD POWER customer surveys, it is one of the most trouble-free new car brands sold in the USA.

IME any car with 100K + miles is probably going to have some major issues.

Friends wife had a Honda that was parked in their garage. He wasn't home. It caught fire and burned their house down. I don't remember which model year it was, probably a little before 2004.

Cars are NOT like  Civil Turbojet aircraft. Their design life is very limited, although occasionally you will read about someone who put 500K miles or even one million miles on a car, but I think those cars were purchased Brand New and babied by their owners with the best possible maintenance over the years.

One way or the other, the OP and her family are going to spend $ on transportation. The newer the vehicle and the fewer miles on it, the less likely one is going to need to shell out big bucks for major repairs.

[prairiewindmomma]

If it's a 2004, have you already done the 180K maintenance? That runs about $1000.  How are the tires? When things have failed in the past, has it been mostly electrical stuff? 

Have you thought about getting a new vehicle for dh and then just delaying the decision about whether to ditch the old car or not? If it doesn't need immediate repairs, then I'd just drive it a couple of times a month to keep the battery charged and wait and see. I suspect that in a year or two, the decision will be easier to make. For us, when we looked at the used car market (ie--what could we buy for a teen), it became a lot more clear that holding on to our older vehicles made sense.  

 

[barnwife]

4 hours ago, WendyLady said:

 I assume your 15 year old will be driving soon? Maybe some of the issues are things he can study on YouTube and solve?

 

I agree, electric locks are not a sign of more problems to come, let the teen learn how to fix the car even before he's driving, start looking for a replacement a year before he heads off to college, and hope he doesn't crash it or another car before you find the replacement. 

The most dangerous part of a teen driver is the over confidence, tell them the car has old tires, old brakes, the engine will fall apart if they over rev it, and is so poorly balanced that it will spin out from the coriolis effect and crush like an aluminum can and they'll be paralyzed, and one will ever date them, and you, their mother will have to wipe their butt the rest of their life. 

[PrincessMommy]

/\/\/\

And there's usually a way to disable to auto locks on cars.  Unless you need to have auto locks on your car.  Living in certain cities it is a must - otherwise I find them to be a PIA.

[gardenmom5]

our philosophy has been when a car starts requiring more money spent in repairs than the car is worth - it's time to dump the car.   it's not going to magically get better when your dc reaches driving age.

 

eta: for teen doing work on the car, the question would be - are the problems mechanical or electronic?  while some electronic things can be repaired without tech's computers, other things really do require a tech computer to diagnose the problem.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by gardenmom5

[WendyLady]

A little encouragement for you or for someone who is considering keeping or buying a "beater" car!

I read this article a couple weeks ago and your post reminded me of it.  It took me a while to find it as I googled up a surprising amount of articles when I searched "why I drive a beater car" https://www.frugalconfessions.com/beater-cars/

 

When valet parking with a beater car... (maybe not encouragement, but the story of valet parking at a 5 star hotel cracked me up!)

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by WendyLady

[Suzanne in ABQ]

We have a different philosophy.  Instead of looking at what the car is worth to other people (market value), we ask what is worth to US.  In other words, what would it cost to replace it?

We recently had to make a similar decision wrt our 2007 Honda Odyssey.  After 12 years of faithful service, and never leaking a drop, it sprung an oil leak in the main seal, which sit's between the engine and transmission.  The transmission must be dropped in order to reach the seal, so the $25 seal costs at least $1000 to replace.  That brings about the fact that the transmission had over 275,000 miles on it. Last summer, we replaced all the struts and the steering rack&pinion.  The engine is running beautifully. So, what to do? Pull the transmission to replace just the seal? No. If we're going to pay to drop the transmission, we should replace it.  So, the cost is now sitting at $4000.  We tried living with the leak for about a month, but it was a mess, and it made the car stink, and neither of us wanted to drive it, so it mostly just sat in the garage.  I drove our other car, which is smaller (so I couldn't do the carpool very well), and it's not as comfortable.

We started looking around at replacement cars.  We always buy new cars and keep them forever.  That way, we know what we're getting, and we can maintain them properly, and expect them to last at least 15-20 years. So, we were looking around at new cars that would suit our purposes (seat seven for carpool, lots of space for road trips, lots of cargo room for moving kids to/from college, etc).  We found that we would need to spend about $40,000 to replace the van.  We wouldn't be able to get much out of selling it, given its age and mileage, and since it was leaking like a sieve. So, yes, the repair would cost "more than the car is worth." 

So, we could either spend $40,000 for a new car that would be too big 4 years from now, or we could spend $4000 and have a vehicle that will last at least four years, probably longer. We replaced the transmission, and I feel like I have a new car!  It was definitely the right choice for us because our car is worth more to us than it is to other people.  In four or five years, we won't need so much space, so we'll be able to downsize. By then, we'll have saved enough to pay cash.

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Suzanne in ABQ

[rebcoola]

We have have a similar philosophy to suzanne.  We have put more money into our 99 suburban than it is worth but way less than a reasonable replacement.   

[Ali in OR]

When we got our wheelchair conversion Odyssey, we decided to keep our 12 year old Odyssey as a third car and let our kids learn to drive with that car. Great decision. It served us another 7 years with no repair costs other than new battery and new tires. But then as a 19.5 year old van this summer, when we saw signs that the transmission was going we were ready to say goodbye and get a new car. The repair would have cost way more than the car was worth. We also downsized to a CR-V. I'm glad my kids learned to drive in a scrtached and dented car I didn't worry about, but now it's very nice to have a car that I know is reliable. I wouldn't save a problematic car for a child to drive--that's just another source of worry for me. Now if it had been our wheelchair van, we would have paid for a new transmission, as replacing that car would be quite expensive.

[Lanny]

There is another thing to be considered when  contemplating running an old vehicle. They not only require more money for Maintenance and Repairs, they are in the Shop more often than a newer vehicle and when they are in the shop, one needs another method of transportation.

[Wheres Toto]

When dd's car started to go, one of our considerations was safety.  She regularly drove long distances late at night between school and work.  

We have a 2002 Suburban that dh bought new before we were together, and a 2015 Honda Pilot that we bought used two years ago.   The Suburban does need a lot of work but none of it has been high dollar so it's been worth doing.  We have the Honda to drive when the Suburban needs to go into the shop.  I drive the Honda usually and dh takes the Suburban to work.   When anyone drives further, they take the Honda.  

I'm another one who is surprised that your Honda is giving so much trouble.   I've had a bunch of Honda Civics and even the ones that were abused and the maintenance was never done lasted forever.