I was prayerful when I stabbed you in the back, so it's ok

[alisoncooks]

I'd fight for that money. I'd start nice, explaining that she's stealing and it's unacceptable.  Then I'd up it to contacting their board, with a side of "I'll be contacting my lawyer" (even if you don't plan on doing so). I'm pretty sure that will get your refund. 

Getting the refund would NOT be the end of it. Consider it a public service announcement but I'd leave a review on all the local homeschool FB pages. For all we know, this woman is scamming everyone. 

[Laurie]

20 hours ago, Janeway said:

She told me she could not hold the spot for anyone, first person to pay would have the spot. I paid before 9:30am. She told me to use e-check to ensure my son would get the spot since their credit card system was not working. More than four hours later, she gave away his spot to a staff member who changed her mind about her child's schedule and wanted that spot for her child. Then refused to refund the registration fee which was $175.

Maybe you should include in the letter that if she's determined to collect  $175  from someone it should be from this staff member.  Or better yet, out of her own pocket since she made this mess herself.    

[Guest]

Are you withdrawing him from both classes? Is it possible that she is thinking the registration fee still applies because he is in a 2nd class? (Trying to be as charitable as possible, but I think The whole “I prayed about it, so what I do has to be OK” is bogus)

[bethben]

The woman may also be in the "flustered" leadership stage.  There are rules and regulations that they are supposed to follow (like perhaps "teachers get priority for classes" and "registration fees are non-refundable") and then get into a situation that is an outlier and don't know what to do.  I've been in a homeschool leadership position where I probably did the wrong thing, but was listening to leaders up stream from me so I did what they suggested because I was a newbie.  I would try calling her back.  Tell her that since your partially disabled son did not get into the age appropriate grade (per his social nuances), you didn't feel comfortable putting him into an older grade class where he couldn't do as well.  If she still gives you the non-refundable registration fee thing, I would ask to speak to whoever is over her or who else serves on the leadership board with her and ask to contact them.  The more appropriate response for the class mix up is that she should have told the teacher the class was now full and there were no more openings.  She obviously had some confusion as to what to do since she prayed about it.  She most likely heard her own anxiety about it all.

[Katy]

1) With a small organization like that it's possibly the e-check won't go through until they reconcile the accounts 3 days after the fact.  In that case the check won't be likely to clear because the bank put a stop payment on it.

2) Don't hire an attorney.  Complain to supervisors, complain on social media, complain to a local reporter who can do a report on coop using the words FRAUD and THEFT, and consider filing a claim in small claims court yourself, where you have to pay a small filing fee and pay the sheriffs department to deliver the notice if you want to out of principal, but unless you have a close personal friend who's willing to write a letter on legal letterhead warning them you're coming after them for free it's not worth the attorney fees.

[Garga]

4 hours ago, dmmetler said:

Are you withdrawing him from both classes? Is it possible that she is thinking the registration fee still applies because he is in a 2nd class? (Trying to be as charitable as possible, but I think The whole “I prayed about it, so what I do has to be OK” is bogus)

 

Oh, this is a good question.  Are you having to pull out entirely from both classes since you can’t get into the one you need him in?  Or are you still going to have your son take just one class.  I suppose that if he’s still taking a class, then a registration fee can still be collected.  Or is it that the fee is meant to cover each student taking two classes?  Does everyone else take two classes?  Are you going to be the only one taking one class?  Is there a 3rd class option for your son?  

I suppose that if you’re going to use one class, then a registration fee should be applied, but it gets murky if that $175 registration fee is supposed to cover registering for two classes, when you can only take one.  

Her logic about offering for him to be in the older classes doesn’t hold if your son is not capable of being in the older class.  That’s not something you can control or that you’re refusing willy-nilly.  

So perhaps an exception to the rule needs to be made for you, since you were in the classes you wanted and the organization pulled you out of one of them.  If your son is still in the 2nd class but they yanked him from the 1st class, then they maybe ought to reduce their fee for you. 

So...is he still in the 2nd class?

Edited July 28, 2019 by Garga

[TravelingChris]

23 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

That’s revolting. I’m a Christian and find it appalling. She’s taking to lords name in vain. Saying I’m a Christian so my poor behavior is acceptable. 

Oh boy, have I been a victim of this.  Two different people attacked me verbally at different times in church or a church related activity.  One person, who knows how disabled I am, started talking about in front of a Sunday School class about how sick people are sick because they and others do not pray enough for them and other such nonsense.  I objected to the line of thought and he argued back and even my husband defended me and we both walked out.  This was in a mainline denomination church, not a place where such beliefs are in the theology or practice of members.  I was then attacked by others for objecting to his presentation forcefully and with logic because this individual lost his wife nearly 2 decades ago to cancer and hasn't moved through to acceptance.  Well that is his problem but he doesn't get to attack others.  I found out that another of the Sunday School members wives stopped attending because of him.  I have no idea how many people he has hurt. 

The other crazy behavior was lies and misstatements about me by a recovered alcoholic/drug abuser.  Yes, I know her brain is fried but I am not about to sit quietly when someone makes fun of how many medications I need to be on and lies about other things in a way that is very embarrassing.  So no, I will not be friendly to her or give her my business.  

Finally, I found out that many people think it is a Godly thing to be gossipping.  That blew my mind too.  

I now basically hang out with some safe people and still will not back down when people make incorrect or illogical statements particularly when offensive to others.

If I had enough energy and wasn't disabled, I would sue just like you would, Janeway.   

[TravelingChris]

14 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

They can't enforce civil judgements criminally.

They could put a lien up or something through an execution order I believe, but that's about it. And since it's a company (I'm assuming) she'd be taking to court, if they don't have any "property" what are they going to take the money from? Small claims court is rarely worth the trouble imo. Jane is going to have to pay the fees to get it started. And yes, if the Court finds in favor of Jane, they'll order the Defendant to pay the court fees. But if they choose not to pay, then Jane is on the hook for the fees AND going back to court again for this to be enforced. For $175. 

I get where y'all are coming from on being angry. I just don't know if it is worth the trouble. It's not like this is 5 minutes worth of work to get the cost back. I thought OP was in Texas. And if she is she's going to have to work for that money. If she's in another state, I stand corrected and maybe it works another way. But you're going to take a small group of homeschoolers which is sounds like are operating as a business to court to try and collect damages. Good luck. 

It does sound like a case that could be on Judge Judy or one of the other court shows and they pay would pay Janeway then (plus divide the remaining money from their pool of money between Janeway and the director or school or whoever she would be suing.  That is one way to get your money and throw shame.  I would never do it (I haven't sued anyone ever anyway) because I would hate to be on tv, but Janeway may be different.

[TravelingChris]

14 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

To be frank, I think I might legit ask that question, "So, because you prayed and feel good about it, it's okay to blatantly disregard your word?  I think Christ has this thing about lying..."

But I tend towards aggressive-aggressive rather than passive-aggressive....

Same here

[Pen]

I missed that there were two classes involved.  That’s important.  If he’s still in the other class you may not have a clear case for return of registration fee.  

[KidsHappen]

15 hours ago, katilac said:

The amount of help you get collecting varies by area. People with a business and reputation to protect are going to be more willing to pay a judgement, and every system has some procedures to follow that will make it more likely to collect (either in a practical sense or because it has an embarrassing or otherwise unpleasant effect).

The hope is that the other side gives in before actually going to court. Why would they? Because they have the money to pay but are simply hoping the other person doesn't pursue it. Because small claims court is open to the public and judgements are a matter of public record. It's simply bad for reputable businesses to clearly and publicly attempt to get one over on a  customer. 

Why would they pay if they go to court and lose? Failing to pay can result in interest piling up, turning a small judgement into a much larger one. Filing  your judgement will often place a lien on their property. Judgements no longer show up on your credit report, but will easily be uncovered if you ever try to buy or sell property, get a loan, an so on. And there are ways of forcing payment if money is available. Wages can be garnished. The sheriff can show up and seize a piece of property. These are not things a reasonable person wants to happen, much less a business. 

A mechanic with his own business put the wrong size oil filter in our car which caused all of the oil to leak out of the engine and then the engine to burn up, We went to small claims court to recover the cost to replace the engine. We won and received a judgement. The court and legal system refused to do anything else for us. No garnishment of wages, no seizure of property, no other help of any kind. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was up to us to collect the money ourselves. This was in Niagara Falls, NY in roughly 1995. Of course, we have not bothered to try small claims court again. It may be different in other places, I was just warning that this result is a possibility.  

[Janeway]

10 hours ago, Garga said:

 

Oh, this is a good question.  Are you having to pull out entirely from both classes since you can’t get into the one you need him in?  Or are you still going to have your son take just one class.  I suppose that if he’s still taking a class, then a registration fee can still be collected.  Or is it that the fee is meant to cover each student taking two classes?  Does everyone else take two classes?  Are you going to be the only one taking one class?  Is there a 3rd class option for your son?  

I suppose that if you’re going to use one class, then a registration fee should be applied, but it gets murky if that $175 registration fee is supposed to cover registering for two classes, when you can only take one.  

Her logic about offering for him to be in the older classes doesn’t hold if your son is not capable of being in the older class.  That’s not something you can control or that you’re refusing willy-nilly.  

So perhaps an exception to the rule needs to be made for you, since you were in the classes you wanted and the organization pulled you out of one of them.  If your son is still in the 2nd class but they yanked him from the 1st class, then they maybe ought to reduce their fee for you. 

So...is he still in the 2nd class?

No, she refunded the tuition portion from both classes while not refunding the enrollment fee of $175. And used the exact words that she was "prayerful" about this so she is "at peace."

[Janeway]

9 hours ago, Pen said:

I missed that there were two classes involved.  That’s important.  If he’s still in the other class you may not have a clear case for return of registration fee.  

 

10 hours ago, Garga said:

 

Oh, this is a good question.  Are you having to pull out entirely from both classes since you can’t get into the one you need him in?  Or are you still going to have your son take just one class.  I suppose that if he’s still taking a class, then a registration fee can still be collected.  Or is it that the fee is meant to cover each student taking two classes?  Does everyone else take two classes?  Are you going to be the only one taking one class?  Is there a 3rd class option for your son?  

I suppose that if you’re going to use one class, then a registration fee should be applied, but it gets murky if that $175 registration fee is supposed to cover registering for two classes, when you can only take one.  

Her logic about offering for him to be in the older classes doesn’t hold if your son is not capable of being in the older class.  That’s not something you can control or that you’re refusing willy-nilly.  

So perhaps an exception to the rule needs to be made for you, since you were in the classes you wanted and the organization pulled you out of one of them.  If your son is still in the 2nd class but they yanked him from the 1st class, then they maybe ought to reduce their fee for you. 

So...is he still in the 2nd class?

 

14 hours ago, dmmetler said:

Are you withdrawing him from both classes? Is it possible that she is thinking the registration fee still applies because he is in a 2nd class? (Trying to be as charitable as possible, but I think The whole “I prayed about it, so what I do has to be OK” is bogus)

She refunded the tuition money from both classes while keeping the money for the registration fee.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Janeway said:

 

 

She refunded the tuition money from both classes while keeping the money for the registration fee.

Then no, I see no justification for doing so since the class you registered for was no longer available to your son, and their alternative was not acceptable. 

[Pen]

8 minutes ago, Janeway said:

 

 

She refunded the tuition money from both classes while keeping the money for the registration fee.

 

Is he still taking the second class and refund of its tuition is by way of apology for taking away his place in the other class, or is he taking zero classes?

[Janeway]

Just now, Pen said:

 

Is he still taking the second class and refund of its tuition is by way of apology for taking away his place in the other class, or is he taking zero classes?

No classes. In fact, her wording is odd. In addition to saying she was being prayerful, she said something to the effect that I could have still have had a relationship with them in the future....as if she were saying I am not welcome there. Originally, she just said he was out of the one class but could have a different one. I did tell her he had autism spectrum disorder and so I did not want him in the older class as it would not be good for social reasons, and then she came back at me making it clear we were not welcome at all basically.   Here is her wording in the final email...after I stated he has ASD and therefore, I do not want him in the older class, did not know if he would socially fit in, she said this, this is just the end part of the email that made it clear she is removing him from both classes......  

___________________________________________________________

Your participation in the future would not have been ill effected.  I prayerfully considered what to do in the matter.  I had peace about continuing with what I did as I knew you had other options for Science. Her student did not since she is in a writing class 2^nd period.  

 

Praying you find what you are looking for in the upcoming school year.

 

Blessings,

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Now that I re-look over the emails and the timing if when she said this..after I said he has ASD so I don't want him in the older class and we already teach science at home so did not need science, we were just doing it because he loved science and wanted to make friends, now I wonder if the real reason for doing this is the ASD. She did not kick him out completely until after I told her this. But, the point of the original post is her going on about how she prayed about it so it is okay. 

[Pen]

I don’t find her reply that you quoted very clear at all.  

 

[Pen]

But I think a call to an ADA office, state,  federal or both might give you some more ideas.

[Janeway]

4 minutes ago, Pen said:

I don’t find her reply that you quoted very clear at all.  

 

I do not either. She seemed like she could speak English fine when I spoke to her, but her writing is broken enough that I would have guessed she is not an English first language speaker. But, she did also send a copy of a receipt showing me she was sending me a refund for the tuition portion but not enrollment fee.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Janeway

[mmasc]

This sucks. I would definitely email the organization (her, but others higher up if possible) stating that since the decision to drop these classes was the organization’s decision, *not your decision*, then they need to refund the registration fee or you will seek legal action. Keep it clear, keep it short and simple, keep it unemotional. Place fault on them, not you. Even if your DS didn’t have ASD, you did not sign up for the class she was offering. It doesn’t matter that it’s available, it’s not what you signed up for. If I sign up for German, and they offer me Spanish, it doesn’t matter one darn bit that they’re both foreign language if what I wanted/needed was German!

[Pen]

What grade/age is your Ds?  Is there any reason why she might have thought the 5-8 class would be suitable ?

 

[Annie G]

The fact that your kid has options for science but the other kid doesn’t isn’t your problem. The mom should have thought of that before she signed up for classes. The policy is first come, first served. I would make a stink about it.  

[Murphy101]

All I can say is that adding blasphemy to their wrongs by blaming Jesus for their actions doesn’t help anyone. 

I don’t make friends by pointing that out when people do it. But then again, I’m not over whelmingly interested in those kinds of Christians or friendships so no loss to me and maybe the possible benefit of planting a seed for them to dwell on about their own spiritual development.

When they show you who they are, it’s a favor to know as soon as possible so you can direct your energies and your children elsewhere. 

[SquirrellyMama]

Were you going to keep him in a class, but she kicked him out after you said he was ASD? 

Or, did you pull him from the 2nd class after he was bumped from the first?

Did any of the paperwork say the registration fee was non-refundable? 

Just wondering how all of this might affect you getting the money back. 

Kelly

[Garga]

2 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Were you going to keep him in a class, but she kicked him out after you said he was ASD? 

Or, did you pull him from the 2nd class after he was bumped from the first?

Did any of the paperwork say the registration fee was non-refundable? 

Just wondering how all of this might affect you getting the money back. 

Kelly

Even if the registration fee was non-refundable, I’d make a big stink.  Usually that policy is in place if the customer decides to pull out.  But the organization ought not to collect a fee and then say, “Whoopsie!  You can’t take the classes!  But we’ll keep the fee!”  That’s how scams work.  I’m not saying she’s purposely scamming you, but she certainly inadvertently is.

@Janeway What do you think you’ll do about this?  This situation is nuts and you deserve to get your money back!!

Edited July 28, 2019 by Garga

[Pen]

1 hour ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Were you going to keep him in a class, but she kicked him out after you said he was ASD? 

Or, did you pull him from the 2nd class after he was bumped from the first?

Did any of the paperwork say the registration fee was non-refundable? 

Just wondering how all of this might affect you getting the money back. 

Kelly

 

Yes.  All of that is relevant.  If Janeway pulled him from the class he was still in, but he could have taken the one class, and more classes in future sessions, and the paperwork says registration is non refundable there’s a less strong case here for getting the money back.  

 

If the woman kicked him out of second class as well as the first it is much stronger. 

[SquirrellyMama]

1 hour ago, Garga said:

Even if the registration fee was non-refundable, I’d make a big stink.  Usually that policy is in place if the customer decides to pull out.  But the organization ought not to collect a fee and they say, “Whoopsie!  You can’t take the classes!  But we’ll keep the fee!”  That’s how scams work.  I’m not saying she’s purposely scamming you, but she certainly inadvertently is.

@Janeway What do you think you’ll do about this?  This situation is nuts and you deserve to get your money back!!

That's why I was wondering if they kicked him out of the 2nd class when the ASD was talked about or if she pulled him from the 2nd class on her own. That might affect getting back her registration fee. 

I don't blame her for pulling her son, and I think she should get it back either way because what they did was not right. 

When I'm facing a situation like this I try to think of every possible argument that could come at me. 

Kelly

[Paige]

We had a similar situation with DD years ago. We were new in town and registered for preschool mid-October. We paid the monthly fee, registration fee, and a substantial curriculum fee that was supposed to cover materials for the entire year which ended in May. In Nov. we were told that the school would be closing in Dec and that the church had decided in Sept that it would be closed. The school year began late August. I was livid. It was about the money and that they played with DD's feelings by allowing DD, who at the time was 3 and had moved from all her friends, to start to get attached to new friends. They didn't want to refuse her registration in Oct because it might make the employees suspicious. 

It was a humongous and popular church and we were offered no refund. I was asked for a meeting with the pastor. I was told it was ok because they prayed about it and if I was a Christian I should know that meant everything was A-ok. And that I could be bitter or better. 

We didn't sue but we could tell that was the only way we'd get our money back. I hope your attempts to get your money back go better. 

[SquirrellyMama]

3 minutes ago, Paige said:

And that I could be bitter or better. 

 

🙄 I don't think I would have handled that well. 

[Ellie]

On 7/26/2019 at 11:07 PM, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I know you are angry- and I think rightfully so- but I'd think long and hard before going down litigation road. You're going to have to go to small claims court and is it going to be worth your additional time and stress for $175? I know it's a principle thing, but you've already invested so much time. I would just question if it's worth it. She's the one who has to answer for it in the end. So if you could let it go, I would. Is $175 worth the additional strain and stress to do so if the bank stop alone doesn't work? 

It would be worth it *to me.*

[GoodGrief]

3 hours ago, Paige said:

We had a similar situation with DD years ago. We were new in town and registered for preschool mid-October. We paid the monthly fee, registration fee, and a substantial curriculum fee that was supposed to cover materials for the entire year which ended in May. In Nov. we were told that the school would be closing in Dec and that the church had decided in Sept that it would be closed. The school year began late August. I was livid. It was about the money and that they played with DD's feelings by allowing DD, who at the time was 3 and had moved from all her friends, to start to get attached to new friends. They didn't want to refuse her registration in Oct because it might make the employees suspicious. 

It was a humongous and popular church and we were offered no refund. I was asked for a meeting with the pastor. I was told it was ok because they prayed about it and if I was a Christian I should know that meant everything was A-ok. And that I could be bitter or better. 

We didn't sue but we could tell that was the only way we'd get our money back. I hope your attempts to get your money back go better. 

 

Worth noting, narcissistic and manipulative types are often adept at identifying a person's soft underbelly. For religious people, they know that throwing religious terminology will often produce the desired effect and end with them getting what they want. Who wants to argue with God? But this method is certainly not limited to the religious manipulators.