The situation wherein my hubby changed our car insurance and now we are on the verge of losing our house because of it..

[KidsHappen]

Thanks everyone for the helpful ideas and support.

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by KidsHappen

[Tree Frog]

Oh, my goodness! I'm so sorry to hear this! I  hope it's resolved in your favor! That broke down on so many different levels! Why wouldn't anyone have notified you?! I'm dumbfounded (as I'm sure you and your DH are!)

[mom2scouts]

I can't believe the mortgage holder didn't notice this and increase your escrow payment. I think somebody made a mistake by not doing that and is trying to save himself from the fall out.

[Angie in VA]

Wow. What a nightmare. So many people dropped the ball here. If I were your attorney, I'd be contacting my errors & omissions policy holder provider and letting them know about it. Grrr. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Angie in VA

[KidsHappen]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I am a bit confused.

The parts I get.....

You had bundled car and homeowners insurance with the same company.  Later, you separated out the car insurance policy, which caused you to lose discounts on the homeowners insurance, and therefore, raised the payment.

Here's where I get confused-you said it was 2 years, but I thought escrow analysis was required to be done yearly?  Maybe that's only a state law rather than a federal.  But if it's federal, and they didn't catch this in the escrow analysis last year, then they screwed up that analysis.  Unless there was some sort of large overage in the escrow account that covered the difference....maybe a refund from having changed car insurance after paying that premium?

Also, if the escrow account was below the minimum, then increasing the payments is a pretty standard practice I thought?  And, even if they didn't want to increase the payments, I know they could demand the difference in the escrow account, but I thought the mortgage and the escrow were separate....that one couldn't be used to cover the other?

Also, $7500 seems like a LOT, but I suppose that homeowners insurance premiums can probably vary a lot depending on the house and the location and such.  

 

 

I hope you are able to get it worked out.  We almost had to go through foreclosure stuff with our previously owned home, though for completely different reasons.  It's such stressful and difficult thing to deal with.

Could you get some other sort of loan to cover the escrow balance?

Yes, it is reconciled yearly so this somehow got missed twice. And yes, normally they would have just increased the payments. This did not happen and was the first break in the chain of things that went wrong. I don't know how things usually happen but in our case we have an escrow acct. that we make monthly payments to from which the mortgage is paid as well as insurance, taxes and probably a few other small things. The $7500 is two years of $2500 increase in homeowners insurance plus various fees and charges. I don't know that I will ever fully understand what happened but I am hoping that whatever the lawyer is doing will take care of the problem. 

[PeachyDoodle]

Oh what a nightmare. I'm so sorry. Surely, SURELY, once the judge sees that you have been faithfully making your payments and that this was all a huge misunderstanding, he or she will be able to set things right. But in the meantime, I can't imagine the stress.

(((KidsHappen)))

[elegantlion]

Wow! I'd be screaming at everyone, officially and unofficially. I'm sorry you're there. I also hope your lawyer sorts this all out. 

[KidsHappen]

3 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

Wow! I'd be screaming at everyone, officially and unofficially. I'm sorry you're there. I also hope your lawyer sorts this all out. 

Well I admit that I actually did call the lawyer and temporarily lose it at a rather elevated level because a month after she received this info she still hadn't got back to us to let us know what she was doing about it. I hate making phone calls, hate confrontation and so incredibly rarely ever lose my temper that it was a big deal but it was also unprofessional and probably not terribly helpful although we did hear back from her soon thereafter. 

[Pen]

This sounds incredibly stressful. Hugs.  

Is there any way you could get the whole $7500 payment made?  

Then maybe fight the amount of fees etc since it wasn’t your fault.  

Including possibly asking (demanding?!?) the lawyer to pay it if it’s partly lawyer’s fault.  

You may need a different lawyer.  This one may be at a CYA stage more than trying to help you. 

I’d rather be fighting over fees and penalties etc than  trying to get a foreclosure reversed. 

 

[Katy]

I'm pretty sure that your mortgage company's failure to fix the escrow issue constitutes fraud.

About 7 years ago a judge in Denver warned that an executive of Wells Fargo Mortgage would be going to jail indefinitely for contempt of court if they pulled this crap again.  As far as I know, no one ever went to jail.

I'm not sure what jurisdiction oversees this sort of thing, perhaps someone can comment who knows.  But I might start by filing a complaint with your state attorney general.  There's probably a form to do so on the .gov website.

[DoraBora]

7 minutes ago, Pen said:

You may need a different lawyer.  This one may be at a CYA stage more than trying to help you. 

I’d rather be fighting over fees and penalties etc than  trying to get a foreclosure reversed. 

This was my first thought.  Find a new lawyer to handle this and to chase after your first lawyer.

There are so many agencies with whom you might file complaints: your state agency that regulates mortgage lenders, your state attorney general's office,  the Federal Reserve Bank for your district (if the mortgage lender is a bank), your state board of insurance, etc.

I would be BESIDE myself about this.  So many failures, and no one who should do so is taking responsibility.

[KidsHappen]

5 minutes ago, Katy said:

I'm pretty sure that your mortgage company's failure to fix the escrow issue constitutes fraud.

About 7 years ago a judge in Denver warned that an executive of Wells Fargo Mortgage would be going to jail indefinitely for contempt of court if they pulled this crap again.  As far as I know, no one ever went to jail.

I'm not sure what jurisdiction oversees this sort of thing, perhaps someone can comment who knows.  But I might start by filing a complaint with your state attorney general.  There's probably a form to do so on the .gov website.

Wells Fargo is our mortgage holder.

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

Wells Fargo is our mortgage holder.

 

Go to your state attorney general website and file a complaint about mortgage fraud.

[AmandaVT]

Oh I'm sorry, that's terrible! 

I did a search for Wells Fargo Mortgage lawsuit and there are a bunch of them. Definitely an angle to pursue. And I agree, maybe a new lawyer?

[KidsHappen]

25 minutes ago, Pen said:

This sounds incredibly stressful. Hugs.  

Is there any way you could get the whole $7500 payment made?  

Then maybe fight the amount of fees etc since it wasn’t your fault.  

Including possibly asking (demanding?!?) the lawyer to pay it if it’s partly lawyer’s fault.  

You may need a different lawyer.  This one may be at a CYA stage more than trying to help you. 

I’d rather be fighting over fees and penalties etc than  trying to get a foreclosure reversed. 

 

We can probably come up with the money if we have to but we can not come up with that and pay for another lawyer. 

[Valley Girl]

I can only imagine how stressful this is. I hope it resolves quickly in your favor. Who actually receives the annual declarations sheet (the one listing coverages and premium) for the homeowner's insurance? It should go to both the mortgage company and the policyholder. What about any annual escrow statement? If the lawyer is the one who gets those and did nothing, I would think she should be falling all over herself to get this cleared up. Surely there's a paper trail. How awful.

[ktgrok]

Definitely keep talking to the mortgage company - something similar happened to me where we had an agreement to make up some missed payments, but the department that makes the agreements didn't talk to the legal department that does foreclosures, so they kept us in the foreclosure process (without telling us) and actually sold our house at auction without us knowing! I only found out because the new owner left me a note on the front door asking when we were moving out!

We contacted the mortgage department, reminded them we HAD AN AGREEMENT and they took two days to figure it all out, but they DID figure it out, and everything was fine (judge voided the sale of our home and everything). So it could be a similar situation where there are two departments not communicating. 

[KidsHappen]

2 minutes ago, Plum said:

What a nightmare! I'd be stressing out so much!

I avoided an escrow account specifically for this reason. I like to have control over who pays the property tax and insurance and when. The mortgage company on our last house kept paying the property tax late which meant I was getting scary letters. Now I use our tax return to pay our property taxes and insurance and then set aside the rest of what I'll need monthly to pay it in full when it's due. There's usually a slight discount being able to pay it in full anyway. 

I suppose it could be that one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing. Our insurance is bundled, but they are separate departments in different states with different account numbers. They just moved my homeowners insurance and changed the account number on that policy. I have no idea why other than they are moving things around. I've been with them for 16 years. 

I don't remember for sure but I think we had to have an escrow acct. for some reason. 

[KidsHappen]

42 minutes ago, Valley Girl said:

I can only imagine how stressful this is. I hope it resolves quickly in your favor. Who actually receives the annual declarations sheet (the one listing coverages and premium) for the homeowner's insurance? It should go to both the mortgage company and the policyholder. What about any annual escrow statement? If the lawyer is the one who gets those and did nothing, I would think she should be falling all over herself to get this cleared up. Surely there's a paper trail. How awful.

Yes, the lawyer was the one getting the paperwork and we still had to notify her of the issues although she seems to be making strident efforts to clear it up now but I believe that a senior lawyer had to be brought in to audit our records and perhaps (?) insure she was reacting accordingly. Not sure about that last part.

[KidsHappen]

9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Definitely keep talking to the mortgage company - something similar happened to me where we had an agreement to make up some missed payments, but the department that makes the agreements didn't talk to the legal department that does foreclosures, so they kept us in the foreclosure process (without telling us) and actually sold our house at auction without us knowing! I only found out because the new owner left me a note on the front door asking when we were moving out!

We contacted the mortgage department, reminded them we HAD AN AGREEMENT and they took two days to figure it all out, but they DID figure it out, and everything was fine (judge voided the sale of our home and everything). So it could be a similar situation where there are two departments not communicating. 

Oh dear God! That's what I am afraid of. I am so glad to hear that everything worked out for you. That's what I am hoping for as well and it what ever thing in my gut tells my should be the case but I would have never believed that what has happened so far could have happened.

[Valley Girl]

54 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

I don't remember for sure but I think we had to have an escrow acct. for some reason. 

We had to have one as well. However, after a certain amount of time (a year or three?), we were able to drop the escrow and pay the taxes and insurance ourselves. It gave us more control and kept more money in our pocket as the mortgage company always had to hold more than was needed to pay the bills. After what you've experienced, I'd never want an escrow again. So sorry you're dealing with this situation.

[Carol in Cal.]

I live in Silicon Valley, where is close to where WF is headquartered.  They were my first ever bank, the one that we went on field trips to when I was in 3rd grade, and a big part of CA history.  And I have grown to hate them for this kind of thing.  It is despicable behavior.  

Seems like out here what they respond to is news stories.  I’d keep that in mind if I were you.

Sadly, our last mortgage was sold twice and now they hold it.  I am not happy about this.

[itsheresomewhere]

Call your state’s attorney general and file a complaint.  Wells Fargo is known for this and quite a good amount of lawsuits over it. Honestly, the more complaints they get hopefully it makes someone do something.   Also, keep a notebook with times you called, who you spoke too, etc.  The more paper evidence you have the better with them.  

[NorthwestMom]

What a nightmare! Hugs to you.

 

[arliemaria]

There are quite a few remedies to stall or stop foreclosure if it comes to that. My husband used to be a bankruptcy/troubled taxpayer attorney. I heard him talk about cases of pending home loss often. 

If you needed to get the money to pay the arrearage could you refinance? I know that doesn't help long term, but if it means possibly losing your house... I would be asking the county government/lender/insurance company/etc. to remove the escrow account and set up a separate savings account in the future. I used to work for a homeowners insurance company right before the recession hit and so many days I’d talk to someone who's policy was canceled due to none payment because the lender didn't pay the insurance company. Mortgages were being sold so quickly they would get mixed up. No one would notice until they were filing a claim. It's worthwhile to call your insurance company once a year to get the current declarations page and update your coverage especially for personal items as these things change frequently.

[Liz CA]

5 hours ago, Katy said:

I'm pretty sure that your mortgage company's failure to fix the escrow issue constitutes fraud.

About 7 years ago a judge in Denver warned that an executive of Wells Fargo Mortgage would be going to jail indefinitely for contempt of court if they pulled this crap again.  As far as I know, no one ever went to jail.

I'm not sure what jurisdiction oversees this sort of thing, perhaps someone can comment who knows.  But I might start by filing a complaint with your state attorney general.  There's probably a form to do so on the .gov website.

 

I hope it is as Katy suggests. And in this case Wells Fargo again...why am I not surprised?

Where are our board lawyers?

Edited June 26, 2019 by Liz CA

[Scarlett]

What a nightmare.  I am so sorry! P,ease keep making a lot of noise.  Do not let this stand.  I agree it is fraud.  

[Kanin]

11 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

actually sold our house at auction without us knowing! I only found out because the new owner left me a note on the front door asking when we were moving out!

OMG!

[Valley Girl]

14 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Definitely keep talking to the mortgage company - something similar happened to me where we had an agreement to make up some missed payments, but the department that makes the agreements didn't talk to the legal department that does foreclosures, so they kept us in the foreclosure process (without telling us) and actually sold our house at auction without us knowing! I only found out because the new owner left me a note on the front door asking when we were moving out!

We contacted the mortgage department, reminded them we HAD AN AGREEMENT and they took two days to figure it all out, but they DID figure it out, and everything was fine (judge voided the sale of our home and everything). So it could be a similar situation where there are two departments not communicating. 

I am not a violent person by any means, but I think if that happened someone would have to pull me off the mortgage company people who let that happen. People should be able to sue for that kind of gross incompetence.

[SereneHome]

16 hours ago, KidsHappen said:

Wells Fargo is our mortgage holder.

No offense to anyone but Wells Fargo is as incompetent as it gets.  That's why I closed our escrow account with them and just pay our insurance and property taxes myself.  They could never do a simple math and figure out our correct amounts, you would think it required high level calculus or something.

Also, I learned something new - I had no idea a bank can foreclose  bc of the lack of insurance on the house....

And this should be a warning to everyone - check your escrow balances yourself.  Banks often make mistakes like that if you know your insurance went up but your escrow balance didn't - triple check the numbers!!!!

 

[Katy]

Actually the media is a really good idea.  Call your closest local news station and ask if they want to do a story on Wells Fargo mortgage fraud and trying to foreclose on you.   Another option is tweeting local reporters.

[vonfirmath]

40 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

No offense to anyone but Wells Fargo is as incompetent as it gets.  That's why I closed our escrow account with them and just pay our insurance and property taxes myself.  They could never do a simple math and figure out our correct amounts, you would think it required high level calculus or something.

Also, I learned something new - I had no idea a bank can foreclose  bc of the lack of insurance on the house....

And this should be a warning to everyone - check your escrow balances yourself.  Banks often make mistakes like that if you know your insurance went up but your escrow balance didn't - triple check the numbers!!!!

 

 

This is why when we refinanced we did it to a local bank that is known for not selling their mortgages. Before that it seemed our mortgage was being sold every 6 months and I didn't trust the process. or every mortgage servicer out there.

 

My own sister had a nightmare mortgage situation with Wells Fargo

[SereneHome]

24 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

This is why when we refinanced we did it to a local bank that is known for not selling their mortgages. Before that it seemed our mortgage was being sold every 6 months and I didn't trust the process. or every mortgage servicer out there.

 

My own sister had a nightmare mortgage situation with Wells Fargo

I monitor our account with them VERY closely!!!  Like to the penny!