I'm being asked for advice -- Help me?

[Jenny in Florida]

A young woman with whom I have a close friendship is having a difficult time figuring out how to build a positive relationship with her parents, in particular her mother, while also trying to weather a time of transition. The young woman is 21, not currently enrolled in college (earned her A.A. earlier this month and still considering possibilities for "what's next"). She does not have a regular job, but does occasional short-term gigs like pet sitting and doing a little freelance photography for friends. This week, she got an offer to temp at the front desk of a small business owned by some people we know. She is hoping/planning for a career in the arts and spends much of her time involved in that (auditioning, preparing for auditions, performing in community and amateur theatre, writing and practicing music, teaching herself to play additional instruments, etc.).

She is being treated/medicated for anxiety and so has some issues to deal with in trying to figure out school and work, but she is beginning to look for a regular part-time job, auditioning for paid performance opportunities and researching bachelor's degree programs.

The details are complicated, and I don't want to put out more private information than necessary, but let's just stipulate that her living situation has provided her with a certain amount of independence and a tiny bit of distance from her parents for the last year and a half or so, However, her family recently experienced a loss, not unexpected, that has set off a whole bunch of upheaval. Most significantly, her parents have decided to make changes that would require the young woman to lose that independence/distance, which she views as going backward. Again, I don't want to go into a lot of details, but her relationship with her parents, her mother in particular, is fraught, and she feels strongly that the new living situation they are offering her would be unhealthy for her.

Also, from a practical point of view, the young woman does not drive, and her parents, while they attempted to push her to learn a few years ago, now say they don't want her to try, because she's too nervous and/or immature. Her parents live an inconvenient distance away from most of the rehearsal and performance spaces where the young woman is active; there are very limited options for similar things anywhere close to the parents' house, and  employment options for the young woman in the immediate area are not any better. When she is there, she feels very "stuck" and isolated, and that is entirely understandable.

At this point, I should probably mention that, when my children's friends have come to me over the years to complain about their parents, I have always, always tried to be a good and sympathetic listener while still trying to stick up for the parental point of view. I have consistently tried to help young folks see things from the other side and appreciate that parents, while flawed people, almost always act from love and a desire to do what they believe is best. 

Having known this young woman for more than three years, now, and seen interactions with her parents up close, it has become extremely difficult for me to continue that effort. This is a rare case in which I believe the situation really is about as bad as the young person perceives it to be.

Currently, her plan is to pack up her stuff and come stay with us for a while, until she can put in place the pieces necessary to move on. She plans to learn to drive and acquire some basic life skills like cooking some simple meals, plus get a part-time job and get herself enrolled, possibly part-time, in college to continue working towards her B.A. Partially because she had rehearsals and performances this past week at a venue that is much closer to our house than to her parents -- significant because my son and sometimes my husband and I are her primary transportation -- and also, honestly, because she just needed a break from being at her parents', she has been staying with us for the last several days. She will be back this weekend, because she has agreed to dog sit for a friend of mine, and it works out best to have the dog here. She went home this afternoon to check in with her parents and take care of some things there and, apparently, encountered a buzz saw of unhappiness and attempted emotional manipulation. Her parents seem to believe that, since she is kind of/sort of still in college and they are willing to continue indefinitely driving her places "that aren't too far away," there is no reason for her to be unhappy with her current situation or to be looking at moving out.

She has been texting me asking for advice on how to deal with her mother. 

I  have suggested that she try to redirect the conversation by asking some questions (What does her mother think she should be doing at this stage of her life? When and how does her mother see her moving towards more independence?) and then trying to genuinely listen to the answers. Perhaps if her mother feels her point of view is being heard and respected, she will feel more involved and less powerless? And, in the meantime, the young woman might get some insight into her mother's perspective. 

That doesn't seem to be going well, though. It seems to come down to her mother wanting the young woman to "choose them" over the young woman's boyfriend and to just stay there being their daughter and being dependent on them.

I am, honestly, at a loss as to how to help.

There is a history of things getting really heated, and the young woman's father has in the past gotten physical by doing things like grabbing her arm and trying to prevent her from leaving the room. So I have let the young woman know that, while I respect and admire her desire to be there and try to continue working on things and I don't think it would do anything to dispel her mother's perception that the young woman is "ditching them," I am available to collect her if she feels unsafe.

Other than that and "I'm so sorry things are so bad," I just don't know what to offer. 

What would you suggest? For her, mostly, but also for me, if you have thoughts?

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Jenny in Florida

[Catwoman]

Please feel free not to answer this question, but is this your son’s girlfriend with the control freak parents?

[Jenny in Florida]

22 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Please feel free not to answer this question, but is this your son’s girlfriend with the control freak parents?

 

I am trying not to assign labels or impute motivation, but, yes, it is the same young woman.

[Catwoman]

12 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

I am trying not to assign labels or impute motivation, but, yes, it is the same young woman.

 

I thought so. 

I think the only thing you can do is what you have already been doing — you can act as a sounding board for her and you can let her know you will be there for her if she decides to make a split with her parents, but other than that, there isn’t a lot you can do. If you say negative things about her parents and she ends up staying with them, you may end up being viewed as a meddling troublemaker, so that’s why I think you should probably just let the young woman handle things on her own, even if you disagree with her choices or feel her parents are being manipulative.

I do think there is one thing you should encourage her to do, and that is to get her driver’s license. It would help her achieve far more independence, and she wouldn’t have to constantly rely on the kindness of others when she needs to get from place to place. 

[Shoeless]

Therapy.  The young woman needs some therapy so that she can learn to assert herself and deflect her parent's emotional manipulation. 

Unless she lives in an area where public transport is readily available, driving in the US is a life skill.  She needs to drive to be able to maintain employment, visit doctors, buy food.  Her parents are not doing her any favors by keeping her dependent on them.  

Daughter needs to learn how to lovingly detach from her parents.  Therapy can help her achieve that. 

[catz]

I'd encourage her to set some clear boundaries for herself.  Honestly,  with their tone I'd encourage her that she should consider telling them they need family counseling if they want to work on the relationship because she doesn't feel like she's being heard or understood.  It sounds like she could use therapy on her own too if she isn't getting that right now.  Her anxiety is probably rooted in these unhealthy relationship dynamics and it can be extremely helpful to parse through that.   Is she financially dependent on her parents?  Was it assumed she'd be moving back home after graduating with her AA?  Her previous living situation is a bit unclear here if she can't cook simple meals at age 21 but did have some degree of independence?  Most 21 year old young adults can follow  recipes without direct instruction.  

I think it's noble to want to help a young person that struggling like this. But there is a fine line between helping and enabling.  Enabling those with anxiety is common.  So you might to make sure boundaries are set up so it doesn't lead to resentment on your part.   It's ok if you can't solve every problem for her.  Including this one.  These types of dynamics aren't simple and she's going to have to decide to set clear boundaries or not.   She's not likely to become emotionally healthy until she is willing and able to do that. 

ETA - I really like how Lemon stated this above.  I think therapy would be extremely helpful and I'd be hesitant to do much more than encourage that step.  

Edited May 22, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[ktgrok]

The best thing to do when in an unhealthy situation is leave. She definitely needs to get out. I’ve seen too many people in this situation and it doesn’t get better until they leave. Sometimes the daughter may have anxiety due to inherited traits, but often it is just because they are being emotionally manipulated constantly.

[JennyD]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I do think there is one thing you should encourage her to do, and that is to get her driver’s license. It would help her achieve far more independence, and she wouldn’t have to constantly rely on the kindness of others when she needs to get from place to place. 

 

I agree with this x100.  My parents, while well-intentioned, also did not want me to learn to drive when I was in high school/college.  It was incredibly frustrating and I just couldn't do anything about it until I had graduated, gotten a job, and moved out.  It would have been a tremendous help -- and actually would have probably improved my relationship with my parents -- if someone else had been able to help me learn to drive sooner.

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, JennyD said:

 

I agree with this x100.  My parents, while well-intentioned, also did not want me to learn to drive when I was in high school/college.  It was incredibly frustrating and I just couldn't do anything about it until I had graduated, gotten a job, and moved out.  It would have been a tremendous help -- and actually would have probably improved my relationship with my parents -- if someone else had been able to help me learn to drive sooner.

 

Maybe that’s how you can help her. It would be such a huge thing in her life to be able to drive. 

[Storygirl]

I can understand the young woman's desire for independence and the need to take steps forward. But, honestly, I can imagine some of the things about this situation that could make her parents unhappy or uneasy.

I assume she depends upon them financially to some extent. My advice to her would be to do everything she can to achieve financial independence, so that she can separate herself from her parents' influence. I actually think parents' opinions should be considered when a young adult is not self-sufficient (I realize that not everyone agrees with this), and I think many parents view things this way. So financial independence is needed.

I would say she should take the desk job, even if it means temporarily putting aside some of her other pursuits. I actually always wanted to be a novelist, myself, but I had to work a full time job, so I did. It's not easy to make that choice, but sometimes artsy people have to do it.

So, find a full time job and get an apartment. With roommates, to split the costs. Because I think it's also important for her to have some independence and not live with you.

Just my two cents.

[Catwoman]

Jenny, do her parents have the mistaken impression that your son is a poor match for their dd?  Could that be why they continue to try to exert so much control over her? 

I know your son has always been absolutely wonderful to her, and I think she’s lucky to have him, but perhaps her parents think otherwise?

[Janeway]

I had a lot of trouble with my parents. SO..I got a job and paid my own bills. Sure, I did not get to pursue the fun career of acting (believe me, I wanted to). But, I found something practical that I still was able to be okay with and I think this is fine. 

 

I think you would be enabling the woman. Sorry she has it rough with her parents, but she is not a child. She is a grown adult. If she is having trouble with her parents and has an associates degree, she just needs to suck it up and get a job and pay her own bills to get on her own. I was in a yucky little one room rental place to begin with. The heat did not really work. But it motivated me to work hard to get to my next step and so on. This girl has the chance to, at 21 yrs old, work her way up in the world. And if you "rescue" her, she will spend her life "needing" to be rescued and never feeling like she can stand on her own two feet. Her anxiety will become ten fold because she will not feel she can care for herself because everyone else will have always cared for her.  You would be doing great harm for her if you took her in. If you said she were being beaten or something, sure. But you did not. So no, do not take her in.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Janeway

[Jenny in Florida]

15 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Therapy.  The young woman needs some therapy so that she can learn to assert herself and deflect her parent's emotional manipulation. 

Unless she lives in an area where public transport is readily available, driving in the US is a life skill.  She needs to drive to be able to maintain employment, visit doctors, buy food.  Her parents are not doing her any favors by keeping her dependent on them.  

Daughter needs to learn how to lovingly detach from her parents.  Therapy can help her achieve that. 

 

14 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I'd encourage her to set some clear boundaries for herself.  Honestly,  with their tone I'd encourage her that she should consider telling them they need family counseling if they want to work on the relationship because she doesn't feel like she's being heard or understood.  It sounds like she could use therapy on her own too if she isn't getting that right now.  Her anxiety is probably rooted in these unhealthy relationship dynamics and it can be extremely helpful to parse through that.   Is she financially dependent on her parents?  Was it assumed she'd be moving back home after graduating with her AA?  Her previous living situation is a bit unclear here if she can't cook simple meals at age 21 but did have some degree of independence?  Most 21 year old young adults can follow  recipes without direct instruction.  

I think it's noble to want to help a young person that struggling like this. But there is a fine line between helping and enabling.  Enabling those with anxiety is common.  So you might to make sure boundaries are set up so it doesn't lead to resentment on your part.   It's ok if you can't solve every problem for her.  Including this one.  These types of dynamics aren't simple and she's going to have to decide to set clear boundaries or not.   She's not likely to become emotionally healthy until she is willing and able to do that. 

ETA - I really like how Lemon stated this above.  I think therapy would be extremely helpful and I'd be hesitant to do much more than encourage that step.  

 

I'm just going to use these two posts as a jumping off point for general responses and clarifications:

She is mostly financially dependent on her parents, although when/if she returns to school, she will be entitled to a stipend that covers a good chunk of her basic needs. 

Public transportation is not really a viable option in our area. I agree that driving is an important life skill. One of the things on the young woman's list for while she stays with us is to learn to drive. My son and I have agreed to help her with that.

Unfortunately, family counseling is not going to be a welcome suggestion. Her parents have pretty consistently refused to acknowledge that there are any "real" issues and for years ignored or refused their daughter's requests for help in that area. She had not been seen by any medical professional, even for a check up, for about eight years before we helped her arrange a doctor's appointment. She is now on medication, which is helping with her anxiety. However, because her insurance is connected to the same benefit that provides the educational stipend, she does not currently have health insurance and can't afford to pursue therapy for herself at this point.

I am trying very hard to be mindful of the line between support and enabling. My son, my husband and I have had multiple conversations about making sure that we are not just letting her transfer her dependence from her parents to us. We have focused on encouraging her to learn skills, rather than just do things for her. When she first started hanging out with us, she had a checking account because her educational benefits are direct deposited, but she had never used an ATM and didn't know her PIN. She had never paid for anything with a debit card. She would not order for herself in a restaurant. She would skip eating all day if there was nothing microwaveable and no one around to cook for her or at least phone in an order for a pizza. She was too terrified to go in an Uber by herself.

She now goes into stores alone and handles debit card and ATM transactions comfortably, because my son helped her learn. She speaks to restaurant servers on her own behalf and will even go out to eat with friends when my son is not around, something she would not do when they were first dating. This week, with me standing by, she learned to boil pasta.

I do want to make clear that this has nothing to do with wanting to be "noble." I just love this young woman, and I want her to be able to grow into a strong and capable adult. 

[Jenny in Florida]

24 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I can understand the young woman's desire for independence and the need to take steps forward. But, honestly, I can imagine some of the things about this situation that could make her parents unhappy or uneasy.

I assume she depends upon them financially to some extent. My advice to her would be to do everything she can to achieve financial independence, so that she can separate herself from her parents' influence. I actually think parents' opinions should be considered when a young adult is not self-sufficient (I realize that not everyone agrees with this), and I think many parents view things this way. So financial independence is needed.

I would say she should take the desk job, even if it means temporarily putting aside some of her other pursuits. I actually always wanted to be a novelist, myself, but I had to work a full time job, so I did. It's not easy to make that choice, but sometimes artsy people have to do it.

So, find a full time job and get an apartment. With roommates, to split the costs. Because I think it's also important for her to have some independence and not live with you.

Just my two cents.

 

Oh she has already accepted the desk job. It's a temp situation, covering while someone goes on vacation, but the people who run the business are lovely and tend to fold people into their business family once they connect. So, it could be a great starting point for her.

Of course, the business is not within her parents' "not too far away" radius, but is close to where my son works. So, the most efficient way for her to be able to get to and from the job is to stay with us. 

She has also accepted the offer to dog sit for my friend for the next couple of weekends, which, again, could turn into an recurring occasional gig. She is thinking that, between the desk job and the dog sitting, she will begin to have the ingredients for a starter resume she can use to apply for other things.

And staying with us is definitely intended to be a temporary thing. Because of some changes her parents are making in their own living situation, she is being forced to move somewhere more or less right away. So, either she accepts what they have offered with all of the problems I've listed, or she comes to us for the short term while she gets her ducks in a row to move on.

She does very much want to work towards genuine independence. She just really doesn't have a lot of framework for understanding what that looks like or requires. 

[Jenny in Florida]

29 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Jenny, do her parents have the mistaken impression that your son is a poor match for their dd?  Could that be why they continue to try to exert so much control over her? 

I know your son has always been absolutely wonderful to her, and I think she’s lucky to have him, but perhaps her parents think otherwise?

 

Oh, they can't stand him. Ironically, they view him as controlling.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I'm wondering if her parents are contributing to her anxiety, perhaps gaslighting her a bit?  Or are they just needy?  If so, she will be difficult to overcome her anxiety until she is independent from them, and it will be difficult to become fully independent while she is suffering from anxiety.  What a Catch-22!  I feel for her, and for you.

That being said, she has been offered a full time job.  She should take it.  Community theatre is filled with people who work full time.  Auditions, rehearsals, and performances are always in the evening or on weekends.  Same with music gigs.  She needs to work and learn to drive in order to gain her independence.  Her parents aren't going to like it, but they'll get used to it.  

I would offer her a temporary home, but only if she is working and paying a bit of her keep -- maybe $100 a month.  That way, she is contributing to her room & board while saving toward a car and living on her own.  She will be able to tell her parents that she's paying rent, so it would be less like you are stepping into their role.

While she is living there, teach her how to drive.  Over age 18, in my state, she wouldn't need to go to driver's ed.  She'd just need to pass the written and driving test.  Check your state requirements to see what she needs to do, then help her do it.  That would be helping her achieve her independence while staying out of the quagmire of her relationship with her parents.

Once she can drive, and she has a car, she'll have options.  She might move out with roommates and continue to work.  She might continue to live with you, work part-time, and go to school, if that works for you.  She might even transition into a new, adult relationship with her parents, and move back home while she goes to school, but I'd strongly suggest that she continue to work so that she can pay expenses on her car and keep her independence.

[ktgrok]

It sounds like she needs to enroll in school for the health benefits, stipend, etc. 

[happi duck]

Imo, from her parents' perspective it probably looks like she is just choosing new "parents".

Given a loss, even an expected loss, it is normal to kind of gather people close.

So it seems like at a time a family would pull together she is wanting more independence but from the outside it looks like just becoming dependent on boyfriend and his parents.

Their comment about driving and not being that far seems like "we can help you like they can", kwim?

They might have viewed this differently if she was renting with roommates etc.

[Jenny in Florida]

1 minute ago, Suzanne in ABQ said:

I'm wondering if her parents are contributing to her anxiety, perhaps gaslighting her a bit?  Or are they just needy?  If so, she will be difficult to overcome her anxiety until she is independent from them, and it will be difficult to become fully independent while she is suffering from anxiety.  What a Catch-22!  I feel for her, and for you.

That being said, she has been offered a full time job.  She should take it.  Community theatre is filled with people who work full time.  Auditions, rehearsals, and performances are always in the evening or on weekends.  Same with music gigs.  She needs to work and learn to drive in order to gain her independence.  Her parents aren't going to like it, but they'll get used to it.  

I would offer her a temporary home, but only if she is working and paying a bit of her keep -- maybe $100 a month.  That way, she is contributing to her room & board while saving toward a car and living on her own.  She will be able to tell her parents that she's paying rent, so it would be less like you are stepping into their role.

While she is living there, teach her how to drive.  Over age 18, in my state, she wouldn't need to go to driver's ed.  She'd just need to pass the written and driving test.  Check your state requirements to see what she needs to do, then help her do it.  That would be helping her achieve her independence while staying out of the quagmire of her relationship with her parents.

Once she can drive, and she has a car, she'll have options.  She might move out with roommates and continue to work.  She might continue to live with you, work part-time, and go to school, if that works for you.  She might even transition into a new, adult relationship with her parents, and move back home while she goes to school, but I'd strongly suggest that she continue to work so that she can pay expenses on her car and keep her independence.

 

Whether intentionally or not, her parents do seem to contribute to her anxiety, which is one of the reasons we are willing to have her stay with us for a bit. We are hoping getting a little bit of distance will allow her the breathing room she needs to figure out what to do next.

The temp job will not be full time. It's part-time and temporary, but still a good opportunity. My own daughter actually used to work for the same business and had a good experience. The young woman has already accepted the offer.

And, yes, she does plan to learn to drive while she is with us.

[Jenny in Florida]

5 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

It sounds like she needs to enroll in school for the health benefits, stipend, etc. 

 

That's the plan.

[Jenny in Florida]

6 minutes ago, happi duck said:

Imo, from her parents' perspective it probably looks like she is just choosing new "parents".

Given a loss, even an expected loss, it is normal to kind of gather people close.

So it seems like at a time a family would pull together she is wanting more independence but from the outside it looks like just becoming dependent on boyfriend and his parents.

Their comment about driving and not being that far seems like "we can help you like they can", kwim?

They might have viewed this differently if she was renting with roommates etc.

 

All of this has been brewing for some time, long before the recent loss. And, while I don't want to get into too many personal specifics, let's just say that they haven't exactly made efforts to gather together. (Small example: They made the spur-of-the-moment to leave town and skip their daughter's graduation ceremony.)

But, yes, I do get that it could look like  that from the outside.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

11 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

Whether intentionally or not, her parents do seem to contribute to her anxiety, which is one of the reasons we are willing to have her stay with us for a bit. We are hoping getting a little bit of distance will allow her the breathing room she needs to figure out what to do next.

The temp job will not be full time. It's part-time and temporary, but still a good opportunity. My own daughter actually used to work for the same business and had a good experience. The young woman has already accepted the offer.

And, yes, she does plan to learn to drive while she is with us.

 

Wow.  Somehow, my brain saw "offer to temp" and turned it into "full time".  Please excuse that.  Temp-ing is even better, as it won't create an awkward situation when she decides to go back to school or finds a more permanent part-time job.  It sounds like she's on a track to independence.  I hope it works out for her.  

[Jenny in Florida]

11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Noble intentions or not, please understand that if it happens that she isn't able to grow into a strong and capable adult, it won't be your fault.  I was on the end of the close friend of the young struggling adult and my parents took in my friend and it's now 2 decades later....unfortunately my friend was not able to grow into a strong capable adult.  And my mom doesn't like to discuss it but it does occasionally still bother her.  

 

I have no illusions that I can bring about any particular outcome. Honestly, my own daughter struggles with anxiety and depression and, while she is doing well for the moment, I have had to come to terms with the truth that I was not able to "fix" things for her. And I never take it for granted that a period of relative stability and positivity will last. 

Perhaps I should have said that I hope to give this young woman the best possible chance to grow into the strongest and most capable adult she can be.

[Catwoman]

One thing to keep in mind is that once she becomes independent and doesn’t need his help any more, she may decide to move on from her relationship with your son. I hope that doesn’t happen, but it could.

[Carol in Cal.]

This is tough situation, but I would be kind of reluctant to be the open house for any length of time, even though I would very much want to be, because that would put a lot of pressure on her and your son’s relationship to ‘work’.  If they are engaged, and I’ve forgotten that, not so much.

But I also think that if the relationship does work out, you have a much better chance of getting along with your eventual in-laws if you don’t become the competition at this time.  And it does sound like that, despite your good intentions, to have someone move in with her boyfriend’s parents the first time she moves out of her parents’ house.

My inclination would be to help her to make a list of what it takes to become an independent adult, and start working on all of those things.  

[LMD]

I agree with carol and janeway and happi. I think it is really lovely of you, but that boyfriend's family basically taking over parenting is fraught with a lot of relationship complicating issues for everyone.

I really do understand where she is at, I did something very similar at her age, it caused a lot of bad blood with my family who weren't healthy/stable enough to deal with it - 20 years on they still haven't and still hate dh and his family.

I would also be wary of encouraging codependence in my son and his relationship with her. 

I know it's probably not practical at all, but the ideal solution would be for her to move in to her own place, with friends/roommates, and with your family as a loving and supportive help - but with enough distance that the young adult relationship isn't pressured. Fwiw, I wouldn't have gone for this solution back then, but I can see the wisdom in it now!

[SKL]

I wonder why, at 21 with an Associate's Degree, she does not already have life skills such as light cooking and driving.  I would think she should be able to move into a very frugal independent or roommate situation and work on increasing her paid work hours.  I would hold off on additional college unless she is very clear on what her career goals are and how to reach them.

If she isn't making enough money for the most frugal rent arrangement, then maybe you could offer her a room to rent while she improves her financial situation.  But I would avoid being a long-term "fix."

I don't think the woman belongs back with her parents, unless she is developmentally really still a child.  Her folks will get used to the idea once the reality sets in.

I had a friend like this though, when I was a teen (she was much older chronologically).  She had some mental health issues / history that made it hard for her or her mom to see her as an independent adult.  IIRC she ended up moving out only when she got engaged or married, i.e., she never actually had a chance to be independent.  She seemed quite happy with that outcome though.

[gardenmom5]

has she read boundaries?

[gardenmom5]

I would also encourage her to take the temp job.  while doing that, she can be looking for other things.  most artsy people who have to work hard just to get into that world for paying gigs - have side jobs to pay the bills.  they'll work as waiters or retail as they can be easier schedules to work around.

she also needs to understand how much it can cost to live- in a low col areas, you still have to pay rent, and buy food.

the more she learns "to do" for herself, the more her self confidence will grow.  if you can help her learn to drive - that would be doing a real service.  check into what would be required to help a non-related adult learn to drive.  she's   21, legally she doesn't need her parents permission.  however, she needs to pay for the course, and licenses.  also check into insurance when she's the driver.  she's not your child, so you have no obligation to pay for this.  one more reason to have stable employment so she can pursue these life skills her parents have "so carefully protected" her from.

[Ottakee]

If she doesn't have health insurance through her parents she might be able to apply for Medicaid or other state sponsored insurance on her own since her income is low.

Is there anyone else close to you that she could rent a room from?  Even an older lady or couple?  Sometimes elderly have room, and time to help a young person and can do it in exchange for a small bit of rent and/or help around the house.

With this being your son's girlfriend it could become very awkward if they break up, put you in the middle of disagreements, etc.

In Michigan we have Michigan Rehabilitation Services which helps people with special needs (anxiety might qualify her) to get a driver's license, find a job, etc.  

Some homeless shelters offer long term programs to help people learn the skills they need to be on their own, provide them with a private room, and lots of other help.  They are often housed in homes around the community with a house parent and 4-6 private rooms.

[Storygirl]

9 hours ago, LMD said:

I agree with carol and janeway and happi. I think it is really lovely of you, but that boyfriend's family basically taking over parenting is fraught with a lot of relationship complicating issues for everyone.

I really do understand where she is at, I did something very similar at her age, it caused a lot of bad blood with my family who weren't healthy/stable enough to deal with it - 20 years on they still haven't and still hate dh and his family.

I would also be wary of encouraging codependence in my son and his relationship with her. 

I know it's probably not practical at all, but the ideal solution would be for her to move in to her own place, with friends/roommates, and with your family as a loving and supportive help - but with enough distance that the young adult relationship isn't pressured. Fwiw, I wouldn't have gone for this solution back then, but I can see the wisdom in it now!

I totally agree with this. These are the root issues that led me to say in my own previous post that I thought she should have an apartment with roommates (not boyfriend) instead of living with you.

My niece had a period of time in the first years of college, where she had a boyfriend (from high school) that my brother and his wife did not like. They felt the boyfriend deliberately undermined their parenting by doing things like giving her a cell phone when hers had been taken away as a discipline measure (this was ten years ago, so cell phones were not as "essential" as they are today, and it was not extreme for her to be without one). Also, the boyfriend's mother told her she could leave the college dorm and move in with their family in their mobile home, which set off a SLEW of alarm bells for everyone in my family. It was a bad time. Now, my brother and SIL are typical parents, which sounds different than your friend's family, BUT I think it's safe to assume that some of the same feelings of concern about the girl's dependence on an unliked boyfriend would be in play. My niece did eventually break up with the boyfriend and married someone else at the end of college and swiftly turned her relationship with her parents back around. But everyone in the family was SCARED that she was derailing her life. And no one had any fond feelings for the boyfriend's parents.

Even if this young lady and your son end up staying together forever, I think it is healthiest for everyone for her to establish her independence. She needs to be able to stay with him in a relationship out of love, not out of dependence. And if ultimately the relationship does not last, it will be better in the end if she can stand on her own and take care of herself. Either way, it's best IN THE LONG RUN for her to make her way on her own right now.

It's fine to be a helper by teaching her to drive or helping her find some roommates or even loaning her some money for a deposit on an apartment. But I do think her parents probably think that she is choosing your family over hers, and that will continue to breed bad feelings. If one of your goals is to help her have a healthier relationship with her parents, having her live with you will not accomplish that and will likely make things worse.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Storygirl

[Jenny in Florida]

I appreciate all of the thoughts and concerns expressed here. Let me just say, though, that the moving in with us is pretty much a done deal. She has already started ferrying stuff from her current place to our house.  Her parents have created a situation that requires her to either go or stay more or less now. So, while I agree that this isn't the ideal solution, the reality is that she needs to get out of where she is and doesn't have any money with which to fund anything like renting an apartment, even with roommates. Also, without transportation of her own and without having had time to build up any of those life skills we've been talking about, she could not manage living on her own. She needs a safe place to land, and we are here to provide it. 

As far as her relationship with my son, well, that will be what it is. With only one blip, they have been very much a unit for over three years. In that time, she and I have developed a friendship of our own. Our willingness to help her is not dependent on her romantic involvement with our son.

In these situations, I try to channel my mother-in-law, to think about what she would have done. She would have invited this young woman into her home. Period. 

With all of that said, this is intended to be a temporary situation. We are not her parents and have no interest in replacing them. We consider her a member of our family and are trying to be thoughtful and intentional about how to help her through a difficult transition.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Jenny in Florida

[Scarlett]

Jenny I just want to say that I know a young woman in a similar situation.  She does drive, thankfully, but she is 19 and still dependent upon her mom.  They have a very unhealthy dynamic imo and I keep repeating over and over to her that what she needs to do is move out and support herself. And in her case, her mom doesn't really fully support the young adult.  I believe she really is working toward that goal, but she has had a few physical issues that have held her back for now.  There have been a few times where I felt so sorry for her that I wanted to offer to let her stay with us, but since I have two teen boys in my house it was not an option for our family. 

I try to remain respectful of the mom but it isn't easy.

[unsinkable]

19 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

Oh, they can't stand him. Ironically, they view him as controlling.

I always say we need a laughing while crying emoji.

I think she is lucky to have you and I think the sooner she comes and lives with you guys, the better. I dont think she would benefit from a "youre a 21 yo adult now, sink or swim" approach based on her upbringing.

Some thoughts:

Collaborate on goals she wants and what it would look like and how you can help her get there/achieve them

Guide her while making the list with statements like, "Now you mentioned learning to manage money. For me that means: XYZ bc of ABC. Is that what you are thinking?"

I'd schedule periodic review sessions (biweekly) to see how all parties (you all, not her parents) are still feeling.

I'd look into Catholic Charities counseling (it is not for only Catholics and it isn't religious) or another community counseling, if available. I'd also look for group self help groups that might apply, like Al-Anon or grief support, etc. I don't know her parents' particular situation, if alcohol or drug abuse is involved but you did mention a loss.