Stupid bulimia and restricting

[Night Elf]

Gosh, does it ever go away? I was doing so well. I gained weight. I wasn't tracking. I wasn't weighing every day only once every couple of weeks. I was watching the weight gain and was okay with it but one day, that I didn't even weigh, I had a panic reaction to it all and started highly restricting again. I've lost about half the weight I've gained. I'm back to tracking and weighing daily and restricting to low calories. I'm starting with a new counselor, one who has some experience with eating disorders and whose boss has definitely seen people with eating disorders. My counselor is in training. She's an intern and discusses her cases with her boss every week so they'll work together to get me the best advice, so I feel good about it. I don't know what I'll do if this doesn't work. My former counselor was wonderful but didn't help me with that one problem, so I knew I couldn't go back to her.

Remember when I talked about Intuitive Eating? I got that book recommendation from the eating disorder clinic my psychiatrist recommended. When I read it, it made so much sense. I tried it and did well with it for about a month and then started restricting again. 

I read part of a book on a woman who recovered from binging. Her solution to her binges was excessive exercise. She only exercised the day after she binged. So she read a book about how eating is a survival trait of the animal brain in us, or lower brain. And that it's not hooked into our human brain which does the thinking. So the solution is when she wanted to binge, she just let the feelings ride in her while she thought about the reasons she didn't want to binge. It didn't take long for her binging cravings to go away completely. I don't think I can relate. I can probably stop my binging which isn't anything on the same intensity level as people who eat thousands of calories in a short time frame. Mine is on a much smaller scale. No, my problem is the need to restrict the number of calories that go into my body in the first place. My psych doc diagnosed me with bulimia because I'd binge and then heavily restrict the next couple of days and then go back to my normal restrictions which were still too low. 

Logically I can see that what I'm doing is bad and needs to be fixed. I've got to change my thought patterns and kick the behaviors I suppose. It's just such a strong compulsion that it's overwhelming and I don't get peace unless I get to the end of the day and see I ate under my allowed number of calories.

I feel so bad.

[Kassia]

Big hugs to you.  Eating disorders are so complex and take a lot of work to recover from.  I've been struggling for pretty much my entire life.  It's hard physically and emotionally.  I'm sorry you're having a rough time.

[Night Elf]

2 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Big hugs to you.  Eating disorders are so complex and take a lot of work to recover from.  I've been struggling for pretty much my entire life.  It's hard physically and emotionally.  I'm sorry you're having a rough time.

Thank you but I hate the idea that there isn't a quick fix. I've been doing this for 7 years and I'm so ready to be over it.

[Kassia]

1 minute ago, Night Elf said:

Thank you but I hate the idea that there isn't a quick fix. I've been doing this for 7 years and I'm so ready to be over it.

 

No, it's not a quick fix for most people.  But it's great that you're getting help and working on it.  That's a big step. 

[solascriptura]

I really am sorry.  I do believe that it will be a struggle for a while.  You mentioned above that your bingeing is on a much smaller scale.  Do you think you could elaborate?  I'm just wondering if your idea of bingeing might trigger your calorie restriction.  Maybe if you begin to see it differently, it will reduce the feeling of guilt and compulsion to restrict.  

If you think about it, a lot of people do this.  When I go out to eat, I'll nibble on apps, have an entree, and sometimes I'll even have a dessert.  Is that considered a binge?  Many people do this and it can really be an easy 1,000 calories.  Usually, I think, "wow, I'm stuffed.  I guess I need to eat healthfully for the next few days."  That's it.  I realize that the scenario might be the same for you, but the thoughts after are different.  Maybe if you began to see this as a normal eating event the feelings of guilt would reduce and then the compulsion to restrict would reduce?

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by solascriptura
clarification

[fairfarmhand]

Have you journaled your thought processes through this? Even if they’re illogical, that might help you say to yourself “this is illogical. “ or it might help your therapist spot some cognitive hangups that you’re having. 

Just write out your stream of consciousness, what’s going through your head, even if it’s nonsensical.

[happi duck]

(hugs)

[Tanaqui]

This isn't your fault. Mental illness has its ups and downs, and humans never are a quick fix. *hugs* You'll get through it, I'm sure.

[Tap]

I know very little about eating disorders, but have seen it have major ramifications on a friends life and health. ((((Hugs))) 

I know you have been talking about changing your work schedule, I am curious, do you notice a difference when you work more vs less? Does working distract you from unhealthy thoughts or at least give you something else to channel your thoughts into? Does the work stress or home stress make a difference? I wonder if having more to keep you busy. is actually better for you in the long run (but only if you aren't prone to stress eat). Maybe the house isn't as clean, but if you are healthier, it may be a decent trade off. 

[Arcadia]

Hugs.  I am supposed to go on a low fat, avoid soy, avoid dairy diet and I had Starbucks Spinach, Feta & Cage Free Egg White Breakfast Wrap twice this month (ETA: oops I meant February) for late breakfast and Starbucks Za'atar Chicken & Lemon Tahini for late lunch once when my “sugar level” was crashing while at my kids activity. I love cheese and now I just take samples of cheese at a supermarket at most once a week, I avoid the “cheese drawer” in my fridge.

I am supposed to aim for five servings of fruits and vegetables per day. Could you count servings of food categories instead of counting daily calories instead?

Edited March 2, 2019 by Arcadia

[Jean in Newcastle]

It sounds to me that the problems are with obsession and compulsion and not with the actual mechanics of counting calories or weighing yourself.  I hope this therapist can focus on those aspects for you. 

[maize]

59 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

This isn't your fault. Mental illness has its ups and downs, and humans never are a quick fix. *hugs* You'll get through it, I'm sure.

This.

You are fighting an illness, that is a courageous and very difficult thing to do.

Setbacks happen to everyone, they are discouraging for sure but it sounds like you have some good support and the will to keep working towards health.

[Selkie]

Hugs, Beth. You are doing great by being so proactive.

I don't have an eating disorder, but I have OCD and have dealt with a lifetime of obsessions and compulsions. I totally get the frustration of wishing it would just go away. Mine will never go away, thanks to my glitchy brain, but I have learned to tame it quite a bit over the years. It involves lots of what I call "beating my mind down with a stick" lol. I also agree with a pp that keeping busy with interesting pursuits is so important.

Best of luck with your new therapist and please don't get discouraged by this little setback. 

[Bluegoat]

It's really a drag to look at something like this that takes effort to deal with, and not really see a clear end.  

I was going to suggest something like journaling to try and see if you can see anything that helps or makes things harder.  Sometimes I think these ups and downs can be really random, but other times, you might find them thing that would be helpful, or at least make some sense - I once discovered that something that had seemed random to me was actually hormonal, and while I couldn't change that, I found it helpful to know because I felt more reconciled to that.  It wasn't like the gods just having a laugh.

[Night Elf]

Ok, I'll try to address all the questions.

soloscriptura: Back when I was diagnosed, I had binging days where I'd eat at least 3,000 calories from the moment I woke up until I turned my light off to go to bed. I'd feel full as a tick and still wanted to eat. I felt stuffed all day and sick to my stomach by the end of the evening. I'd wake up the next morning feeling terrible and would eat less than 1000 calories for 2-3 days afterwards. I weighed every day so was hyper aware of every ounce of weight I fluctuated, if that makes sense. Then on my not so restricting days, I'd eat in the 1,100 calorie range. I was totally sedentary. No exercise at all. I managed to stop those binges with the help of my then counselor and nutritionist. They were relatively easy to stop but the restricting calories didn't stop. When I say mini-binges right now, I am sure it's the equivalent of someone having a wonderful dinner out, like you talked about. But I *never* eat like that. I do not eat more than 400 - 450 calories per meal. My mini-binges are at night after I've had what I consider to be a decent day of eating. I'll eat around 1,500 calories in about 30-60 minutes and feel sick to my stomach. The only thing that stops me is when I brush my teeth and put my night guard into my mouth. Sometimes even that doesn't help. I take out the night guard to eat something else. It's terribly annoying. Then I wake up feeling guilty and shamed and want to restrict. I haven't had a night binge in 4 days though. I have cut back my night snacks and eat the same snack every night then immediately brush my teeth and put in my night guard. That helps. 

fairfarmhand: I tried journaling once and stopped after a week because I was simply writing the same thing repeatedly. I was trying to journal my feelings, my cravings, what I decided to eat, and how it made me feel. That didn't help me at all. Now the only journaling I do is monthly just as a check-in with myself.

Tap: When I'm working, I'm not thinking about food until it's time to take my break. I have a certain set of lunch choices to choose from and they're all under 300 calories. Then I fix coffee and that wraps up my lunch. I'll say it's nice to be working so much and not thinking about eating, but that means I"m going into dinner having eaten around 600 calories for the day. I eat a light breakfast and even then I usually have to make myself eat. But I had to be at work at 9:30 am and I don't get hungry until after 10:00 am so I had to eat before I went to work. I've cut my hours down to 30 a week. I now have my mornings at home. I've only had two mornings at home so far but I'm trying to get into a routine of when to eat and how much to eat. I get a 15 minute break in the late afternoon and that's plenty of time for me to eat lunch but it's usually around 300 calories still. I just can't bring myself to eat more than that while at work. I just had to cut my hours though. I was so tired all of the time. I get home at 6:30 pm, eat dinner, and was in bed before 7:30 pm to read. DH stays in the living room until about 9:30 pm and we turn out the lights at 10:30 unless I'm already asleep. So I'm basically spending less than 2 hours a day with my DH on days I work. I feel guilty about that. I miss him.

Arcadia: I don't think counting food groups would work because I don't eat fruits and veggies on a regular basis. I have veggies in my dinner but I'm most definitely not eating 5 servings of them. I eat oatmeal bread, cheese, yogurt, deli meat for lunch, different lean meats at dinner, and lots of potatoes. I could live on potatoes. It's an interesting idea, however, so I promise to give it some thought. However, I'm sure I'd be changing one obsession for another. I'd probably freak out if I didn't get the exact amount of food groups I need. Then I'd feel guilty and shamed just like when I eat too many calories.

Jean in Newcastle: Yes, it's definitely an obsession and the compulsions are strong. That's why I've given up completely and told my DH to leave me alone for a while and let me deal with it with this new counselor. He said as long as I'm healthy he'll leave me alone but if he sees me getting too skinny again he'll intervene. I understand his position but I've never gotten so low that it interfered with my health. He just didn't like me being so skinny. And of course he hated my obsession with counting calories, and weighing. I told him I'd ask for his help if I felt I needed it.

Thanks for the responses. Now that I'm turning back to God after having fallen away for so long, I'm really placing myself in his arms. I'm praying for Him to lead me to where I can get the most help. I have prayed over the years but not daily and stopped Bible studies. I feel I had a God moment and it reignited my love for Him and trying to trust Him to know my needs and what is best for me. If this counselor doesn't help, I might seek out a Christian counselor. My family is being supportive or in the case of my ds, ignoring my return to my Faith. I'm just trying to take care of myself right now.

[Kidlit]

2 hours ago, Night Elf said:

Ok, I'll try to address all the questions.

soloscriptura: Back when I was diagnosed, I had binging days where I'd eat at least 3,000 calories from the moment I woke up until I turned my light off to go to bed. I'd feel full as a tick and still wanted to eat. I felt stuffed all day and sick to my stomach by the end of the evening. I'd wake up the next morning feeling terrible and would eat less than 1000 calories for 2-3 days afterwards. I weighed every day so was hyper aware of every ounce of weight I fluctuated, if that makes sense. Then on my not so restricting days, I'd eat in the 1,100 calorie range. I was totally sedentary. No exercise at all. I managed to stop those binges with the help of my then counselor and nutritionist. They were relatively easy to stop but the restricting calories didn't stop. When I say mini-binges right now, I am sure it's the equivalent of someone having a wonderful dinner out, like you talked about. But I *never* eat like that. I do not eat more than 400 - 450 calories per meal. My mini-binges are at night after I've had what I consider to be a decent day of eating. I'll eat around 1,500 calories in about 30-60 minutes and feel sick to my stomach. The only thing that stops me is when I brush my teeth and put my night guard into my mouth. Sometimes even that doesn't help. I take out the night guard to eat something else. It's terribly annoying. Then I wake up feeling guilty and shamed and want to restrict. I haven't had a night binge in 4 days though. I have cut back my night snacks and eat the same snack every night then immediately brush my teeth and put in my night guard. That helps. 

fairfarmhand: I tried journaling once and stopped after a week because I was simply writing the same thing repeatedly. I was trying to journal my feelings, my cravings, what I decided to eat, and how it made me feel. That didn't help me at all. Now the only journaling I do is monthly just as a check-in with myself.

Tap: When I'm working, I'm not thinking about food until it's time to take my break. I have a certain set of lunch choices to choose from and they're all under 300 calories. Then I fix coffee and that wraps up my lunch. I'll say it's nice to be working so much and not thinking about eating, but that means I"m going into dinner having eaten around 600 calories for the day. I eat a light breakfast and even then I usually have to make myself eat. But I had to be at work at 9:30 am and I don't get hungry until after 10:00 am so I had to eat before I went to work. I've cut my hours down to 30 a week. I now have my mornings at home. I've only had two mornings at home so far but I'm trying to get into a routine of when to eat and how much to eat. I get a 15 minute break in the late afternoon and that's plenty of time for me to eat lunch but it's usually around 300 calories still. I just can't bring myself to eat more than that while at work. I just had to cut my hours though. I was so tired all of the time. I get home at 6:30 pm, eat dinner, and was in bed before 7:30 pm to read. DH stays in the living room until about 9:30 pm and we turn out the lights at 10:30 unless I'm already asleep. So I'm basically spending less than 2 hours a day with my DH on days I work. I feel guilty about that. I miss him.

Arcadia: I don't think counting food groups would work because I don't eat fruits and veggies on a regular basis. I have veggies in my dinner but I'm most definitely not eating 5 servings of them. I eat oatmeal bread, cheese, yogurt, deli meat for lunch, different lean meats at dinner, and lots of potatoes. I could live on potatoes. It's an interesting idea, however, so I promise to give it some thought. However, I'm sure I'd be changing one obsession for another. I'd probably freak out if I didn't get the exact amount of food groups I need. Then I'd feel guilty and shamed just like when I eat too many calories.

Jean in Newcastle: Yes, it's definitely an obsession and the compulsions are strong. That's why I've given up completely and told my DH to leave me alone for a while and let me deal with it with this new counselor. He said as long as I'm healthy he'll leave me alone but if he sees me getting too skinny again he'll intervene. I understand his position but I've never gotten so low that it interfered with my health. He just didn't like me being so skinny. And of course he hated my obsession with counting calories, and weighing. I told him I'd ask for his help if I felt I needed it.

Thanks for the responses. Now that I'm turning back to God after having fallen away for so long, I'm really placing myself in his arms. I'm praying for Him to lead me to where I can get the most help. I have prayed over the years but not daily and stopped Bible studies. I feel I had a God moment and it reignited my love for Him and trying to trust Him to know my needs and what is best for me. If this counselor doesn't help, I might seek out a Christian counselor. My family is being supportive or in the case of my ds, ignoring my return to my Faith. I'm just trying to take care of myself right now.

I have a child with OCD and know that ED’s and OCD are related, as has already been discussed.  For my dd’s OCD, the counseling had to be very specific (exposure-response prevention treatment, the gold standard for OCD).  She was in therapy with a “regular” therapist, and while it was overall beneficial, it really took the focused therapy for her to make progress as far as OCD is concerned.   Might this be the same in your case? 

[itsheresomewhere]

Instead of focusing on a Christian counselor, I would suggest that you find one that specializes in OCD and eating disorders.  It may take a bit but it will be worth every penny in the end.  

Do you have a psychiatrist prescribing your meds or is it a primary care?  The reason I ask is that you may need to have someone look at your meds and see if anything needs to be changed.  A good psychiatrist and and OCD/ ED counselor are what is going to get you on the road to success.  I think you mentioned that your current counselor is in training.  Honestly, you may need more than what she is able to provide even though she reports to someone.  

[ktgrok]

11 hours ago, solascriptura said:

If you think about it, a lot of people do this.  When I go out to eat, I'll nibble on apps, have an entree, and sometimes I'll even have a dessert.  Is that considered a binge?  Many people do this and it can really be an easy 1,000 calories.  Usually, I think, "wow, I'm stuffed.  I guess I need to eat healthfully for the next few days."  That's it.  I realize that the scenario might be the same for you, but the thoughts after are different.  Maybe if you began to see this as a normal eating event the feelings of guilt would reduce and then the compulsion to restrict would reduce?

 

That would not be a binge in eating disorder terms, but it's not so much the amount as it is the out of control feeling that makes it an easting disorder. Another name, perhaps more descriptive, is "loss of control eating". It's not about how much you eat, it is that you can't stop yourself. You know it will make you sick. You don't want to do it. You will be upset with yourself for doing it. Often the food doesn't even taste that good. But you keep eating anyway. Generally until you feel ill. 

3 hours ago, Night Elf said:

My mini-binges are at night after I've had what I consider to be a decent day of eating. I'll eat around 1,500 calories in about 30-60 minutes and feel sick to my stomach. The only thing that stops me is when I brush my teeth and put my night guard into my mouth. Sometimes even that doesn't help. I take out the night guard to eat something else. It's terribly annoying.

Yup, that sounds like loss of control eating. I wish I had some answers for you, but I don't. I'm actually dealing with it myself right now, and don't know why. It has been years since I dealt with it, and now it's back. And yes, it is only in the evening, NEVER during the day. So, while I don't have answers, I do have some thoughts/theories I"m going to explore. 

1. It's just that I'm exhausted and my body thinks that food is the next best thing to sleep? 

2. I'm not eating enough during the day, or not enough of the right things, and so my body goes nuts to make up for it at night?

I need to try getting more sleep (easier said than done) and see what happens, and I'm going to start wearing my fitbit again to log my sleep so I can see if there is a correlation. And I'm going to play with diet a bit. I've been trying intermittent fasting by skipping breakfast (which at least seems to help keep the weight gain down when I am having all this food at night), but some days I do eat a large breakfast and it still happens that night. So that's not the issue. But I'm going to try eating more calories during the day and see if that makes a difference, or may try more carbs during the day to see if that stops me from binging them at night, or may try more frequent meals during the day. Jut going to try to look at it a an experiment and not take it personally. But know that I feel your frustration, I have it too. And it is SO weird that I am FINE turning down anything during the day, but after dinner I become someone who would eat  anything. I was blaming the muscle relaxers I had to take for my back - they give me the munchies, but I'm not taking them anymore, so why still eating? So frustrating. 

[moonflower]

how long did you take the muscle relaxers?

I know for me, if I start a habit, bad or good, it takes weeks of conscious effort to break, even if the habit only existed for a couple of weeks in the first place.  It's like once my brain gets a track started, it's very hard to erase that track.

[MercyA]

Hugs to you, Beth. When I read your first post, it immediately reminded me of my OCD, and I see that others have had the same thought.

I wonder if medication would help? It's been truly life-changing for me. I take Luvox (an anti-depressant) and it has helped more than I can say with my obsessions and compulsions.

I'm so encouraged that you're getting back into church and seeking God. I'm confident that He'll lead you and help you and sustain you. He has always shown Himself faithful to me.

More hugs!

[Tanaqui]

Night Elf, if your religion is helpful to you I certainly don't want to knock it, and I surely understand the frustration of trying and having to try again - but many of those who are called Christian counselors have no certification other than their religion, or minimal certification. Their hearts may be in the right place, but that doesn't mean they have the training and education to help properly.

[Liz CA]

It's always recommended that you seek help from qualified counselor, they can be Christian or not. An Associate Counselor can be as helpful as a licensed counselor. In CA, this means a person is accumulating his/her hours for licensing. These are people who have completed all academic requirements and often have a good grasp of the latest research and approaches. Since it sounds like your new counselor will be consulting her supervising counselor who is licensed, it seems all "legit." 

Take a day at a time and don't beat yourself up when you restrict or weigh compulsively. As your treatment progresses, things should improve.

[Carrie12345]

8 hours ago, Night Elf said:

He said as long as I'm healthy he'll leave me alone but if he sees me getting too skinny again he'll intervene. I understand his position but I've never gotten so low that it interfered with my health.

It may be beneficial to include energy levels in your definition of health.  Perhaps that’s an angle to tackle in therapy.  

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, moonflower said:

how long did you take the muscle relaxers?

I know for me, if I start a habit, bad or good, it takes weeks of conscious effort to break, even if the habit only existed for a couple of weeks in the first place.  It's like once my brain gets a track started, it's very hard to erase that track.

On and off for months. And you are right, it could be I trained my body to want food then. 

Also, I have SAD and craving carbohydrates can be a part of that. I'm sort of hoping with the sun coming back that will go away. 

[Night Elf]

7 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Night Elf, if your religion is helpful to you I certainly don't want to knock it, and I surely understand the frustration of trying and having to try again - but many of those who are called Christian counselors have no certification other than their religion, or minimal certification. Their hearts may be in the right place, but that doesn't mean they have the training and education to help properly.

I have no experience with Christian counselors. I just assumed they were trained counselors who approach their work through the Word of God. I definitely need someone who is knowledgeable about eating disorders.

I don't mind the counselor in training but only because I know she'll receive advice from her boss. If I feel we aren't going anywhere, I'll try a different counselor. I was trying to use my DH's Employee Assistance Program and got the name of the boss of this practice, but when I called to make an appointment, I was told she wasn't taking on those EAP from Optum right now because she was in dispute with them. So if my counselor doesn't work out, I'll go back through EAP and see if I can find someone else. I just may have to drive farther. I was trying to stay in my city.

[Arcadia]

9 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

And it is SO weird that I am FINE turning down anything during the day, but after dinner I become someone who would eat  anything. 

 

Besides the SAD factor, does ambient temperature affect your eating? I eat a lot less when the ambient temperature is warm (95 degF), a normal amount in an air-conditioned place (73 degF), and need lots of warm food/liquid when ambient temperature drops below my comfort level (54 degF).

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

Besides the SAD factor, does ambient temperature affect your eating? I eat a lot less when the ambient temperature is warm (95 degF), a normal amount in an air-conditioned place (73 degF), and need lots of warm food/liquid when ambient temperature drops below my comfort level (54 degF).

Maybe. I did some more research and I really am thinking this is a lack of sleep issue. I'm getting way too little sleep, and have been for a while. It started with the back pain keeping me up, and then turned into a habit. I will work on that. 

[Night Elf]

8 hours ago, Heartwood said:

Maybe talking to a registered dietician might help too. He or she could evaluate your diet. Maybe you need more daily calories or satiating foods. They can offer snack suggestions and meal plans. I think counselling is excellent too for underlying issues.

This battle can be won. I'm praying for you!

I tried a registered dietician and she wanted me to eat 3 big meals a day with one small snack at bedtime. She did want me to eat balanced meals with lean mean and lots of veggies. It just wasn't my style. I tried to explain to her that I do better if I eat smaller more frequent meals but she seemed stuck on the fact that if I ate 3 big meals I won't want to binge. Wrong. And her idea of a big meal was way more than I eat on a normal basis. Like 3 oz of meat, a cup of veggies and half a cup of rice or potatoes. I can't eat 3 oz of meat in one sitting. I'm lucky if I can eat 2. Now, when I was binging I could eat that much more and then more than that. I told her I didn't like feeling stuffed and if I ate as much food as she suggested, I'd be uncomfortably full. That can't be right. So I only saw her 4-5 times and then gave it up.

[itsheresomewhere]

I find dieticians to be very one minded ( I am sure there are a few who aren’t but I haven’t met them yet).   Maybe a nutritionist might help you.  They seem to be able to listen and think outside the box. The weight loss program DH was part of had some really good ones who focused on getting a balance of nutrition and not making you go from one extreme to the next.  Any chance there is one who works with your counselor’s office?

[Nan in Mass]

This is probably something you already know, and won't help with eating more, but I overeat when I am either thirsty (my body confuses hunger and thirst) or craving salt or craving caffine. I try to remember to try to talk myself into drinking a cup of tea and a pint of rehydration fluid and then waiting a little while before I set out to eat other things. If I do that, I usually stop wanting to eat eat eat. If I can stop overeating, then I don't feel yucky later and I do a better job of feeding myself properly without worrying about it.

Nan