Ugh help

[marbel]

7 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Yes. I do find it weird. I don’t know any single adult who spent that amount of time with a girlfriend or boyfriend. They have their lives together, but they also have separate lives and interests. I don’t think it’s healthy for this girl to be with the guy all the time, and frankly, I think her parents are making a huge mistake by not encouraging her to do things without him. I certainly wouldn’t want him at my house all the time. (I would want him to go look for a job and stop freeloading!)

Also, a “tiny little trailer” goes beyond what most people would define as “tight quarters,” and six people all together in that tiny little living area every day or evening would probably be claustrophobic for most people, particularly because one of those six people is not a family member. 

Cat, I don't want to argue with you - I think you are one of the nicest people on this board - but  you are making so many assumptions about how people live and how people like to live, and what these people are doing.

From what Scarlett has said, this guy doesn't sound like a catch, and I suspect I wouldn't want my daughter getting together with him, but what the heck, the notion that he wants to spend all his time with his girlfriend and her family is low on the list of red flags here. And I think its odd to think badly of him for that.

Edited February 13, 2019 by marbel

[katilac]

 

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Remaining chaste is the standard.  If you knew someone professing to be a JW while practicing premarital sex then that is someone living a double life. 

 

Remaining chaste is the standard in most religions. No matter the religion or denomination, lots of people fail to live up to this.

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

You really find it weird that he wants to spend every evening with his fiancé?  They have a lot of interest and they go do things, concerts. , movies etc. 

 

Not Cat, but I do find it a little weird that neither of them (or apparently her parents) ever do anything without each other. 

[unsinkable]

I love all of you

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, marbel said:

Cat, I don't want to argue with you - I think you are one of the nicest people on this board - but  you are making so many assumptions about how people live and how people like to live, and what these people are doing.

From what Scarlett has said, this guy doesn't sound like a catch, and I suspect I wouldn't want my daughter getting together with him, but what the heck, thinking badly of him because he wants to spend all his time with his girlfriend and her family is low on the list of red flags here.

 

Maybe, but I still see it as a red flag. He is 26, not 16, but he seemingly has no life of his own. Others may disagree with me, but I find that very odd.

Actually, I am more surprised that the parents want him there all the time, and that they don’t want their dd to have the opportunity to meet other guys. It seems almost like they want the guy to be part of the family because he’s their buddy, rather than thinking that maybe the guy isn’t the best prospect for their dd to marry. 

 

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I love all of you

 

Unsinkable is here until Saturday night, people! Get your tickets today! Try the veal. 😁

Seriously, her posts in this thread are cracking me up!

[Garga]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

It seems almost like they want the guy to be part of the family because he’s their buddy, rather than thinking that maybe the guy isn’t the best prospect for their dd to marry. 

 

That's what I’m wondering, too, now that I realize the age difference between him and the parents is less than the difference between him and the girl, plus hearing that they all hang out together every night.  It makes much more sense now as to why the parents are ok with this and ready to sign off on it.

[Catwoman]

15 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

Now, now don't get Catty...

But really, I live in a small house and I can't imagine a fiance of one of my kids here every night well past bedtime. People have to get up and go to work/school/appts.

And I am confused about the rules...can they go places alone together? Like to the movies? Is being in public enough of a chaperone?

 

I noticed the little swipe,too, but I decided to let it go. 🙂 

I agree about not wanting someone in my house until bedtime every night, as well. It would be so disruptive, even in a much larger home. And wouldn’t the family want a little privacy every now and then, even if it’s just to sit and watch TV or chat among themselves? For that matter, wouldn’t the guy want a little privacy, too? What adult would want to be at someone else’s parents’ house every night?

I’m wondering about the chaperoning requirements, as well.

[marbel]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

<snip>

What adult would want to be at someone else’s parents’ house every night?

<snip>

Clearly, someone who is not you.  

(Said with affection and a smile.)

[unsinkable]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Remaining chaste is the standard.  If you knew someone professing to be a JW while practicing premarital sex then that is someone living a double life. 

These two do not appear in any way to be living a double life but of course I can’t say that for sure.  

 

In all seriousness:

is a JW who has premarital sex still a JW?

As a Roman Catholic, the sins I commit do not mean I am no longer Catholic. As a baptized Catholic, the Church will always consider me Cathoilc. 

Also, we are all sinners. So everyone sitting in Mass together could be considered "living a double life" by your description/standard. But we're not, because we all know we're all sinners, KWIM?

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Maybe, but I still see it as a red flag. He is 26, not 16, but he seemingly has no life of his own. Others may disagree with me, but I find that very odd.

Actually, I am more surprised that the parents want him there all the time, and that they don’t want their dd to have the opportunity to meet other guys. It seems almost like they want the guy to be part of the family because he’s their buddy, rather than thinking that maybe the guy isn’t the best prospect for their dd to marry. 

 

They are engaged Cat. It would be very weird for them to want her to meet other guys 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, marbel said:

Clearly, someone who is not you.  

(Said with affection and a smile.)

 

🤣

You know me too well, Margaret!!!

 

[Pen]

after the marriage will he move into the trailer full time?

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

after the marriage will he move into the trailer full time?

Who knows. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

They are engaged Cat. It would be very weird for them to want her to meet other guys 

 

They weren’t always engaged, and had her parents not been so welcoming toward him, she may have met someone else months ago. It’s hard to meet new people when your boyfriend never leaves your house and your parents treat him like he’s a member of the family!

Also, I know this is mean, but he seems like such a lousy catch that if I were her mother, I would be praying up until the day of the wedding that she would meet someone else and dump the guy. Sell the gown on Craigslist and move on!

I really hope he straightens out and becomes a lot more ambitious and responsible before they get married, or that poor girl is in for a tough life.

[Scarlett]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I noticed the little swipe,too, but I decided to let it go. 🙂 

I agree about not wanting someone in my house until bedtime every night, as well. It would be so disruptive, even in a much larger home. And wouldn’t the family want a little privacy every now and then, even if it’s just to sit and watch TV or chat among themselves? For that matter, wouldn’t the guy want a little privacy, too? What adult would want to be at someone else’s parents’ house every night?

I’m wondering about the chaperoning requirements, as well.

Cat I wouldn’t want it either. My sons girlfriend is over several times a week but I run her off at 10 or so. I like my space and privacy but not everyone feels that way . Besides That is just the least of the problems. 

And he has a life outside of her but they are engaged and now are joining their lives. 

 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

They weren’t always engaged, and had her parents not been so welcoming toward him, she may have met someone else months ago. It’s hard to meet new people when your boyfriend never leaves your house and your parents treat him like he’s a member of the family!

Also, I know this is mean, but he seems like such a lousy catch that if I were her mother, I would be praying up until the day of the wedding that she would meet someone else and dump the guy. Sell the gown on Craigslist and move on!

I really hope he straightens out and becomes a lot more ambitious and responsible before they get married, or that poor girl is in for a tough life.

They didn’t have to allow him to date her at all but they did and that indicates they are ok with him. 

[unsinkable]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

They are engaged Cat. It would be very weird for them to want her to meet other guys 

 

As Michael Scott said to Jim regarding Pam (when she was engaged to Roy):

"Engaged ain't married." 

But I get your point, in this given situation.

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

Actually, the part that seems the most bizarre to me is that a 26 year-old man has so little to do in his life and so few interests that he spends every evening at his 17yo girlfriend’s parents’ home. 

Well considering a lot of engaged people live together all the time, and having seen how my older brothers were about time with their girlfriends, it does not surprise me at all that they like to spend time together every day.  Plus, where else can he go that is more interesting ....

I do feel there is a problem with his employment status.  I only hope he is trying to do something about it.  When you say "he should be ashamed of himself," my reaction is "he probably is, and that doesn't actually help."  The fact that he doesn't act that way around others is not unusual for a guy - they generally don't share their personal, vulnerable feelings with the whole world.

Edited February 13, 2019 by SKL

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Cat I wouldn’t want it either. My sons girlfriend is over several times a week but I run her off at 10 or so. I like my space and privacy but not everyone feels that way . Besides That is just the least of the problems. 

And he has a life outside of her but they are engaged and now are joining their lives. 

 

 

I’m sorry, but you haven’t indicated that he has any sort of life outside of her. They spend all of their time together; he has no full time job, and he lives with an elderly couple from church. What else does he do? 

[bolt.]

I would skip a wedding if I thought it was immoral. I would go if I just thought it was unwise.

I would decide for myself, but I would not be forceful in an attempt to influence a teen’s decision to attend or not.

In this case, I’m leaning towards the “unwise” camp. For me, I think that there are some situations where a creepy older young adult targets a younger person to cultivate a power-based relationship. (The older person is motivated by the admiration of the younger one and enjoys their own power.)

This situation doesn’t sound like that. Rather, the young man here seems to be avoiding all aspects of being grown up: he is immature. That immaturity seems genuine, and therefore I don’t see him as much more mature than the teenage young woman. I don’t see a power differential — I see two kids being stupid on a level playing field.

Therefore: unwise, but not immoral. If invited, I’d go.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I would skip a wedding if I thought it was immoral. I would go if I just thought it was unwise.

I would decide for myself, but I would not be forceful in an attempt to influence a teen’s decision to attend or not.

In this case, I’m leaning towards the “unwise” camp. For me, I think that there are some situations where a creepy older young adult targets a younger person to cultivate a power-based relationship. (The older person is motivated by the admiration of the younger one and enjoys their own power.)

This situation doesn’t sound like that. Rather, the young man here seems to be avoiding all aspects of being grown up: he is immature. That immaturity seems genuine, and therefore I don’t see him as much more mature than the teenage young woman. I don’t see a power differential — I see two kids being stupid on a level playing field.

Therefore: unwise, but not immoral. If invited, I’d go.

This sums it up so well and is exactly how I feel. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I’m sorry, but you haven’t indicated that he has any sort of life outside of her. They spend all of their time together; he has no full time job, and he lives with an elderly couple from church. What else does he do? 

Well the thread wasn’t about his entire life. I doubt anyone wants to know all there is to know about his world but he has a life. He has family, friends, interests etc. 

[SKL]

Trying to think what my dad was doing every evening when he was 26.  Out pursuing his many interests and hobbies?  Hmm, well probably not, considering he had a wife and 3-4 small kids.  Whatever hobbies he had time to pursue in the evenings, he pursued under the same roof with my mom.  And nobody would call that weird, I don't think.

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well considering a lot of engaged people live together all the time, and having seen how my older brothers were about time with their girlfriends, it does not surprise me at all that they like to spend time together every day.  Plus, where else can he go that is more interesting ....

I do feel there is a problem employment status.  I only hope he is trying to do something about it.  When you say "he should be ashamed of himself," my reaction is "he probably is, and that doesn't actually help."  The fact that he doesn't act that way around others is not unusual for a guy - they generally don't share their personal, vulnerable feelings with the whole world.

I know a couple....when they married he was very unstructured....they spent a couple of years struggling, but one day something just clicked and now he is a very successful husband and father. Including financially. So it is not hopeless. 

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well the thread wasn’t about his entire life. I doubt anyone wants to know all there is to know about his world but he has a life. He has family, friends, interests etc. 

 

This post was what gave me the impression that he doesn’t have much of a life:

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 

... She is with him EVERY day. He stays at her house until 11:45 every night and comes in at midnight to elderly couples home.  Her parents are obviously fine with their relationship and the girl and man are fine with the standard of being chaperoned.  

 

 

[unsinkable]

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

Trying to think what my dad was doing every evening when he was 26.  Out pursuing his many interests and hobbies?  Hmm, well probably not, considering he had a wife and 3-4 small kids.  Whatever hobbies he had time to pursue in the evenings, he pursued under the same roof with my mom.  And nobody would call that weird, I don't think.

That was at least 50 years ago. 

I'm pretty sure you said you grew up relatively rural or small town and your family was poor/working class, and maybe even your dad didnt graduate fro m high school.

I'd bet my bottom dollar your dad worked his fingers to the bone supporting his family when he was 26. 

[katilac]

23 minutes ago, SKL said:

Trying to think what my dad was doing every evening when he was 26.  Out pursuing his many interests and hobbies?  Hmm, well probably not, considering he had a wife and 3-4 small kids.  Whatever hobbies he had time to pursue in the evenings, he pursued under the same roof with my mom.  And nobody would call that weird, I don't think.

 

But THIS 26-yr-old doesn't have 3-4 small kids. And are you sure about that? Would you remember? Most people do some stuff out of the house when they have small children. My kids never slept and we didn't have much money, but we still did some things without each other, out of the house: rec volleyball, craft circles, sports bar, lunch or dinner with a friend, whatever. And we were 36 with small kids, not 26. 

[Catwoman]

3 hours ago, unsinkable said:

That was at least 50 years ago. 

I'm pretty sure you said you grew up relatively rural or small town and your family was poor/working class, and maybe even your dad didnt graduate fro m high school.

I'd bet my bottom dollar your dad worked his fingers to the bone supporting his family when he was 26. 

 

Yes, and the 26yo guy we’re talking about in this thread is single, childless, unemployed, and freeloading off a kindly elderly couple, which means he has exactly nothing in common with SKL’s hardworking, married, father of four young children.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Catwoman
Typo

[MercyA]

 

5 hours ago, PeachyDoodle said:

We were virgins on our wedding night six years after we started dating. But young love is a powerful thing.

Same here. Started dating at 16, married at 22. And we had plenty of unchaperoned time both in high school and when we lived in the same dorm in college. 

I see zero reason to assume that this couple is having sex (or would, given the opportunity).

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

 

Same here. Started dating at 16, married at 22. And we had plenty of unchaperoned time both in high school and when we lived in the same dorm in college. 

I see zero reason to assume that this couple is having sex (or would, given the opportunity).

 

I agree. 🙂

It could go either way and I guess they might be having sex, but I don’t think the guy is some kind of leering creep who wants to take advantage of the girl. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he loves her. I just thought the guy would want some time alone with the girl because he would want to be able to talk to her without being within earshot of her entire family. What young couple (or older couple, for that matter,) wouldn’t want a little privacy sometimes?

“Alone together” doesn’t necessarily mean “having sex.” 

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I agree. 🙂

It could go either way and I guess they might be having sex, but I don’t think the guy is some kind of leering creep who wants to take advantage of the girl. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he loves her. I just thought the guy would want some time alone with the girl because he would want to be able to talk to her without being within earshot of her entire family. What young couple (or older couple, for that matter,) wouldn’t want a little privacy sometimes?

“Alone together” doesn’t necessarily mean “having sex.” 

There are a number of ways a couple can talk out of earshot of others without being alone. You have s picture in your mind that doesnt seem accurate. 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Thatboyofmine said:

I wonder if the guy is just desperately looking for a family?   Does he have any contact with his parents anymore?  Maybe that’s whats happening?  He fits in with these people and wants to belong somewhere?  Idk.  

He has a family. A good family plus extended from what I hear. He hasn’t  been cut off from them, they just won’t let him live there because they think he needs to grow up. I think they are aggravated st the mice elderly couple for delaying that  process. 

[itsheresomewhere]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

He has a family. A good family plus extended from what I hear. He hasn’t  been cut off from them, they just won’t let him live there because they think he needs to grow up. I think they are aggravated st the mice elderly couple for delaying that  process. 

I wonder if they have ever sat down together without the couple and talked.  Perhaps, hearing from his parents that they are not helping him might give them an idea to not help/enable as much.  Maybe the one couple doesn’t understand enabling or it hasn’t crossed their minds.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Trying to think what my dad was doing every evening when he was 26.  Out pursuing his many interests and hobbies?  Hmm, well probably not, considering he had a wife and 3-4 small kids.  Whatever hobbies he had time to pursue in the evenings, he pursued under the same roof with my mom.  And nobody would call that weird, I don't think.

 

My dad married when he was 25, no kids until age 31 (me), but he was in residency and working 40 hours a day and had no time for anything outside of work and home.

[Rosie_0801]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

This is a bit off topic, but it is interesting how many people don't seem to see much space between "they are interested in each other' and "they are having sex."  On one hand it's unthinkable for a 25yo to be interested in a 17yo at all, on the other hand we're idiots if we don't realize he's getting intimate with her on the sly, or at least trying to.  It seems to me that there used to be a lot of space in between; has that changed and I didn't notice?

In my world, it is common enough knowledge that you have to sleep with your boyfriend so he won't dump you, that my then 9yo "knew" it and sighed resignedly.

[Scarlett]

58 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I wonder if they have ever sat down together without the couple and talked.  Perhaps, hearing from his parents that they are not helping him might give them an idea to not help/enable as much.  Maybe the one couple doesn’t understand enabling or it hasn’t crossed their minds.

Yes....they have.  Not only have the parents talked to the elderly couple but many other friends have had very straight talks with them.  Him really because his wife is ready to kill the manboy.  

[caedmyn]

To me there seems like a lot of red flags in this situation.  The big age difference with her being so young, the fast wedding, his lack of a job, and him spending all his waking time at her house (ie sounds like she has no free time without him) are all potential red flags for an abusive relationship.  I hope for her sake that's not the case and he grows up quickly.  (And if you have a good relationship with her, Scarlett, it wouldn't hurt to ask her if she has any doubts at all. If she does, having someone to talk to about it might help her feel like she has the option to call things off.)

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

To me there seems like a lot of red flags in this situation.  The big age difference with her being so young, the fast wedding, his lack of a job, and him spending all his waking time at her house (ie sounds like she has no free time without him) are all potential red flags for an abusive relationship.  I hope for her sake that's not the case and he grows up quickly.  (And if you have a good relationship with her, Scarlett, it wouldn't hurt to ask her if she has any doubts at all. If she does, having someone to talk to about it might help her feel like she has the option to call things off.)

Well, I am very leery of any relationship where having a job seems low priority. And although he is there every evening, he does sometimes work and she has some work and so they have a portion of their day not together.  I really do not see abusive as a risk...he is just so Peter Pan....very immature and clueless.  I see she may end up being the one who sees that things get done in the relationship....which I feel bad for her about....but not my decision. 

 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

There are a number of ways a couple can talk out of earshot of others without being alone. You have s picture in your mind that doesnt seem accurate. 

 

So they are really never allowed to be alone together? 

Are 17 and 18yos that restricted in other areas of their lives? What if an 18yo wants to go on vacation to Florida with some friends? Would that be allowed, or would a chaperone be required?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I am genuinely curious about how this stuff works.

[Scarlett]

31 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

So they are really never allowed to be alone together? 

Are 17 and 18yos that restricted in other areas of their lives? What if an 18yo wants to go on vacation to Florida with some friends? Would that be allowed, or would a chaperone be required?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I am genuinely curious about how this stuff works.

People who are dating are chaperoned by someone.  Doesn’t have to be their parents.  They could even go on vacation.....with chaperoning friends.  

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

People who are dating are chaperoned by someone.  Doesn’t have to be their parents.  They could even go on vacation.....with chaperoning friends.  

 

Thanks for the explanation  — I wasn’t sure how that worked!  🙂

[SKL]

8 hours ago, unsinkable said:

That was at least 50 years ago. 

I'm pretty sure you said you grew up relatively rural or small town and your family was poor/working class, and maybe even your dad didnt graduate fro m high school.

I'd bet my bottom dollar your dad worked his fingers to the bone supporting his family when he was 26. 

So what if it was roughly 50 years ago?  Have humans changed so much in 50 years that it is now weird and creepy for a guy to spend his evenings with the person he promises to spend the rest of his life with?

We weren't rural (my folks lived in a large city until I was 12), but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

My dad had a lot of problems due to his severe dyslexia.  Yes he was a dropout, and he didn't always have a job, since you have to be able to read to keep most jobs.  He needed a lot of encouragement from my mom (the girl he married when she was 17).  She built up his confidence and got him to go out looking for work until he found it.  Eventually, when he was 30, my mom taught him how to read well enough to do the bare basics.  He kept learning and ended up a respected engineer.  But initially, when they married, they lived in my grandma's attic.

Edited February 14, 2019 by SKL

[SKL]

8 hours ago, katilac said:

 

But THIS 26-yr-old doesn't have 3-4 small kids. And are you sure about that? Would you remember? Most people do some stuff out of the house when they have small children. My kids never slept and we didn't have much money, but we still did some things without each other, out of the house: rec volleyball, craft circles, sports bar, lunch or dinner with a friend, whatever. And we were 36 with small kids, not 26. 

Those kinds of things don't appeal to everyone, and most of them cost way more money than a person without a full-time job has to play with on a daily basis.  Even when I was that age I didn't do those things or anything like them.

Edited February 14, 2019 by SKL

[unsinkable]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

So what if it was roughly 50 years ago?  Have humans changed so much in 50 years that it is now weird and creepy for a guy to spend his evenings with the person he promises to spend the rest of his life with?

We weren't rural (my folks lived in a large city until I was 12), but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

My dad had a lot of problems due to his severe dyslexia.  Yes he was a dropout, and he didn't always have a job, since you have to be able to read to keep most jobs.  He needed a lot of encouragement from my mom (the girl he married when she was 17).  She built up his confidence and got him to go out looking for work until he found it.  Eventually, when he was 30, my mom taught him how to read well enough to do the bare basics.  He kept learning and ended up a respected engineer.  But initially, when they married, they lived in my grandma's attic.

I thought you guys were rural/small town like this guy; also poor/working class like this guy. And maybe didn't have more than a high school education like this guy. 

So here is a 26 yo in similar circumstances to your dad...And you started the comparison, not me...

And I was pointing out how I'd bet in similar circumstances, your dad was NOT like this guy.

but it sounds like I got it wrong, and you think your dad was a lot like him.

[unsinkable]

13 hours ago, unsinkable said:

 

In all seriousness:

is a JW who has premarital sex still a JW?

As a Roman Catholic, the sins I commit do not mean I am no longer Catholic. As a baptized Catholic, the Church will always consider me Cathoilc. 

Also, we are all sinners. So everyone sitting in Mass together could be considered "living a double life" by your description/standard. But we're not, because we all know we're all sinners, KWIM?

Quoting myself in case any other Jehovah's Witness wants to answer this for me since Scarlett didn't.

[unsinkable]

9 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Thanks for the explanation  — I wasn’t sure how that worked!  🙂

Well, you're a brighter bulb than me. 

BC I'm still not sure how it works.

Can girls and boys who aren't courting spend time alone together? Like Scarlett's son and this girl are friends. Can they be alone together? COULD they have been alone together, years ago, back when the community thought they might have ended up together?

Is it once kids enter puberty, the sexes can't be along together? Bc that is kinda a loophole, isn't it. I catch feelings for someone who is a friend...And he catches feelings for me, but since we are only "friends" we get to be alone together.

And not just to have any level of physical relationship, necessarily. But just to BE...to talk, laugh, flirt, argue, be quiet, stare at each other...

 

[hippiemamato3]

1 hour ago, unsinkable said:

Well, you're a brighter bulb than me. 

BC I'm still not sure how it works.

Can girls and boys who aren't courting spend time alone together? Like Scarlett's son and this girl are friends. Can they be alone together? COULD they have been alone together, years ago, back when the community thought they might have ended up together?

Is it once kids enter puberty, the sexes can't be along together? Bc that is kinda a loophole, isn't it. I catch feelings for someone who is a friend...And he catches feelings for me, but since we are only "friends" we get to be alone together.

And not just to have any level of physical relationship, necessarily. But just to BE...to talk, laugh, flirt, argue, be quiet, stare at each other...

 

Scarlett's son and the girl are now engaged, so I assume no? And I think even when they were just friends they had to be chaperoned, because they spent time at a friend's house until the person felt uncomfortable. 

[unsinkable]

27 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Scarlett's son and the girl are now engaged, so I assume no? And I think even when they were just friends they had to be chaperoned, because they spent time at a friend's house until the person felt uncomfortable. 

No, I'm talking about THIS engaged girl...the girl the thread is about. Her son is not engaged to this girl. But at one point, people in the community speculated Scarlett's son and THIS girl might end up together. So, does/did that mean they weren't allowed to be alone together?

But the specifics were just to get to the point of the general question:

Can post (or near) puberty opposite sex (young or not!) people spend time alone together?

Can a 16 yo girl and 16 yo boy to go the movies? Drive to church/services? Talk a walk? Just the 2 of them if they are NOT courting? Or if they have no romantic feeligs/attractions to each other? 

What about a 23 yo woman and man? Same questions. Can they be alone together?

[hippiemamato3]

3 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

No, I'm talking about THIS engaged girl...the girl the thread is about. Her son is not engaged to this girl. But at one point, people in the community speculated Scarlett's son and THIS girl might end up together. So, does/did that mean they weren't allowed to be alone together?

But the specifics were just to get to the point of the general question:

Can post (or near) puberty opposite sex (young or not!) people spend time alone together?

Can a 16 yo girl and 16 yo boy to go the movies? Drive to church/services? Talk a walk? Just the 2 of them if they are NOT courting? Or if they have no romantic feeligs/attractions to each other? 

What about a 23 yo woman and man? Same questions. Can they be alone together?

I think they are encouraged to hang out in groups. Sorry I misunderstood! 

[unsinkable]

Just now, hippiemamato3 said:

I think they are encouraged to hang out in groups. Sorry I misunderstood! 

No problem. I am not always clear. 

I don't know where the lines are drawn, KWIM?

I feel like I don't have a clear picture of how this works, so then I try to fill in the blanks, only to be told No, that is not right! But a whole picture can't really be painted online so it is natural to me to kind of fill it in.

Like the idea that if they are chaperoned, they can of course have a private conversation!  And if you think otherwise, you're getting the wrong impression!