A surprisingly contentious Tightwad controversy

[Lady Florida.]

5 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Am I the only one who is thinking that it must be nice to have such a carefree life that you have the time to pay attention to whether or not a person is taking extra packets of sugar at Dunkin Donuts, and the energy to actually bother to judge them for it?

This is an interesting thread. I had no idea that anyone would care about someone taking a few sugar packets. Live and learn, I guess! 🙂

But that's not what Quill said. A member of a tightwad facebook group specifically said she does this and asked whether others in the group thought it was ethical or unethical

Edited November 20, 2018 by Lady Florida.

[SKL]

Funny thing is that the cost of the wi-fi those people are probably using for free at Starbucks to diss people who take sugar is probably a lot more than the cost of said sugar ....  But that is ethical kuz that's what the wifi is there for, right?

[73349]

21 hours ago, unsinkable said:

This weekend, I heard a woman at a truck stop order a medium coffee with 8 sugars and 4 creams. 

I wondered if there would be room for the coffee.

I wasn't at a truck stop this weekend! ☕

IMO it takes too long to open enough sugar packets for a restaurant-sized serving of coffee, which another one reason I prefer pourable sugar.

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

OMG!!! You were in line behind me at the truck stop??? 😉

Aha.

 

I didn't vote, but I think especially since this sounds like a regular occurrence, the person should buy sugar at a store. If packets are the preferred format, they're available from Amazon.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Am I the only one who is thinking that it must be nice to have such a carefree life that you have the time to pay attention to whether or not a person is taking extra packets of sugar at Dunkin Donuts, and the energy to actually bother to judge them for it?

This is an interesting thread. I had no idea that anyone would care about someone taking a few sugar packets. Live and learn, I guess! 🙂

True, but I think the person who posted the original thread was asking philosophically, not having been judged or judging others. It fits in with what people discuss on there all the time and I really do enjoy seeing what people think about different scenarios, and sometimes just defining for myself what *I* think. But this one did surprise me because I never thought for one moment that some people would think this is unethical. I do think there are extensions that are more grey area (like taking food from a buffet for later, or taking condiments that do not go with your purchased item; i.e., taking ketchup when you bought coffee), but taking home a .01 sugar packet that you might have used but chose not to seems 100% ok to me. 

We are all different, though. Nothing wrong with that! 

[SKL]

29 minutes ago, StellaM said:

I will judge you if you serve me a coffee with the Starbucks sugar packet though. For realz. That be tacky, folx.

OK but how would you know why I have a Starbucks sugar packet?  Most likely some person at Starbucks threw it in my to-go bag without my asking.  You prefer me to waste it?

Really, I've seen it all so I rarely judge ... unless the person is a general a$$hole.  In that case I will judge his looks, voice, handwriting, and everything else including his spending habits.  😛

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

But that's not what Quill said. A member of a tightwad facebook group specifically said she does this and asked whether others in the group thought it was ethical or unethical

She did, but I got the feeling she was looking for the philosophical belief. I’m not 100% certain she actually does it. Maybe contemplated it and wondered. 

[Skippy]

I have a relative (on my husband's side!) who bragged about stocking up on free toilet paper rolls from the porta-potties.

[BarbecueMom]

I just realized that I recently came down on the side of "totally ethical" when it comes to pocketing acquiring items for school-related projects.  I needed several fountain soda lids for a science lesson, so I went to Costco, bought a $0.59 soda at the food court, but put four lids on my one drink so I'd have enough lids for the science lesson.

For some reason, I was totally okay with doing that, but probably wouldn't take extra sugar packets to give a friend for their drink.  I don't know what that says about me?  I like my kids more than other people?  Anything goes for science?

[SKL]

4 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

I don't care why; I just don't like Starbucks. I'm a snob about coffee. 

I agree with you on that.  Sometimes, though, I need the caffeine too much to be picky.

[SKL]

8 minutes ago, Skippy said:

I have a relative (on my husband's side!) who bragged about stocking up on free toilet paper rolls from the porta-potties.

His karma will be to have to use one that has no paper when he really needs some.

I have been guilty of filling my pockets with TP when traveling, because some places don't have any.  Learned that lesson the hard way.

[Ellie]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

And this is where I disagree with Miss Manners.  I think it depends on who your guest is.  I often say "we're not hosting Queen Elizabeth."  Miss Manners says even my kids shouldn't see the milk carton on the table at breakfast.  Well goody two shoes if you are that fancy, LOL.

I would put out a sugar bowl because we have one that my kids and housemates use anyway.  However I would not be offended or judgmental if I was visiting and someone brought out a holder with sugar packets.  It is kind of them to be prepared for guests who don't eat exactly as they do.  Besides, I don't think it's a good character trait to notice tackiness in others, even while wanting to avoid an excess of it in myself.

I have never liked putting a carton of milk on the table, and I didn't like it long before I read Miss Manners.

One cannot help but notice tackiness. One does not have to comment on it, however.

[HomeAgain]

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I read somewhere a while ago (don't remember where) that most hotels just throw them away after you check out.  I dunno if that's true, or still true, but if it is, I think it's probably more ethical to make sure they get used.  

There is a group called Clean The World that partners with hotels.  They collect the partial soaps and shampoos that would be discarded, sending tubs and UPS shipping stickers to the hotels to fill and then they process the soap and send it off to other countries that need it.

[KathyBC]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

Funny thing is that the cost of the wi-fi those people are probably using for free at Starbucks to diss people who take sugar is probably a lot more than the cost of said sugar ....  But that is ethical kuz that's what the wifi is there for, right?

Not to mention, you should be able to go there and use the wi-fi without buying anything, right?

[KungFuPanda]

3 hours ago, StellaM said:

I'm using this thought experiment about ethics as distraction from  a life that is decidedly not carefree atm. I have no actual person in mind when I think about this hypothetical.

I am going to rudely put this next bit in caps, 'cos I've got no energy to say it twice:

I AM NOT JUDGING ANYONE IN THIS THREAD AS UNETHICAL. IT IS A GREY AREA. OR WE WOULDNT BE TALKING ABOUT IT. I DO NOT CARE ONE WHIT IF YOU TAKE THE SUGAR PACKET FROM STARBUCKS. 

I will judge you if you serve me a coffee with the Starbucks sugar packet though. For realz. That be tacky, folx.

It's not a gray area.  Some people are just wrong. ::cheezy grin emoji::

Can you even imagine a scenario where a person has read this thread, is paranoid about her two extra sugar packets, goes back to the barista with coffee in hand and asks, "May I take these two sugar packets?" Nobody in real life would every say no to that.  

[AngieC]

1 minute ago, KungFuPanda said:

It's not a gray area.  Some people are just wrong. ::cheezy grin emoji::

Can you even imagine a scenario where a person has read this thread, is paranoid about her two extra sugar packets, goes back to the barista with coffee in hand and asks, "May I take these two sugar packets?" Nobody in real life would every say no to that.  

 

You are correct that nobody would ever say no to that, but most people would never ask it because they would feel guilty because in the back of their mind they would probably know it was wrong.  (And who is to say the barista would not be assuming it was for the person to put in their coffee anyway?  Would the person be asking the barista if they could take the packets for later use by another guest in their house?  I'm guessing the barista would still say yes, because they wouldn't want to challenge a person over a sugar packet, but it doesn't mean they would agree with it.)

[KungFuPanda]

5 minutes ago, AngieC said:

 

You are correct that nobody would ever say no to that, but most people would never ask it because they would feel guilty because in the back of their mind they would probably know it was wrong.  (And who is to say the barista would not be assuming it was for the person to put in their coffee anyway?  Would the person be asking the barista if they could take the packets for later use by another guest in their house?  I'm guessing the barista would still say yes, because they wouldn't want to challenge a person over a sugar packet, but it doesn't mean they would agree with it.)

Team Not Wrong.  This makes you Team Wrong.  

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, AngieC said:

 

You are correct that nobody would ever say no to that, but most people would never ask it because they would feel guilty because in the back of their mind they would probably know it was wrong.  (And who is to say the barista would not be assuming it was for the person to put in their coffee anyway?  Would the person be asking the barista if they could take the packets for later use by another guest in their house?  I'm guessing the barista would still say yes, because they wouldn't want to challenge a person over a sugar packet, but it doesn't mean they would agree with it.)

Now I desperately want to test this theory in the field, as it were. 

I would say I’m going to, but it might have to happen after the holiday Peppermint-mocha-whatever madness has subsided. It would probably skew the data anyway, if you asked a poor, beleagured barista this inane question while she’s making her fifty-seventh fancy drink that morning. 

[SKL]

So I don't think it's unethical to take an accessory that "comes with" the product you are buying.

Suppose you are buying a dress and it comes with a hanger.  You don't need the hanger as you have another kind that you use at home, but your sister is always happy to have more hangers for her growing kids' clothes.  Is it unethical to take the hanger since you are taking it for your sister?

What about a purse that includes a wallet or key chain that you plan to give to someone else who will use it?  Or a coat that comes with a scarf your sister will like more than you do?

On a plane is it wrong to take the bottle of water you didn't drink, or the cookie you didn't eat?  I don't think so.

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Now I desperately want to test this theory in the field, as it were. 

I would say I’m going to, but it might have to happen after the holiday Peppermint-mocha-whatever madness has subsided. It would probably skew the data anyway, if you asked a poor, beleagured barista this inane question while she’s making her fifty-seventh fancy drink that morning. 

Well, I can imagine some butt wads would say no to the sugar request.  But that is because they are butt wads.  Most people would be amazed the person doubted enough to ask.  I mean it's out there in a bin for people to take.  Take some.

[school17777]

I am one who asked a mini Starbucks for a couple of sugar packets to use for the weekend while at my uncle’s where they don’t keep any sugar products on hand.  She said help myself and that I was the first person to ever ask!  I didn’t even make a purchase, but that was only because they didn’t have what I wanted.  

[Serenade]

 

51 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

It's not a gray area.  Some people are just wrong. ::cheezy grin emoji::

Can you even imagine a scenario where a person has read this thread, is paranoid about her two extra sugar packets, goes back to the barista with coffee in hand and asks, "May I take these two sugar packets?" Nobody in real life would every say no to that.  

 

Truth.

Or if you'd go up to the barista and say I'd like to purchase a cup of coffee and four sugar packets.   You'd get billed for the cup of coffee only.  

[SKL]

4 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

lol, the bolded is true. 

On the odd occasion, it's even me who is wrong!! I know...hard to believe, right ? 🙂

I am not really understanding the whole coffee thing though, because, if I buy a take away coffee (latte, one sugar) it's already in the coffee, and if I'm having the coffee in the cafe, it's either in a sugar caddy or in less environmentally friendly place, the individual packets are in a container on the table. So I measure out one teaspoon or take one packet.

Now it's functionally true that there is no difference, really, berween me taking two sugars in my coffee, or taking one sugar, and then wrapping up a little twist or grabbing a sugar packet to take home. But it's just so....idk...cheap ?  It reminds me of my MIL in a really uncomfortable way.

 I don't understand about bins of sugar packets. I have never seen bins of sugar packets. 

So I guess you can keep me on Team Wrong, because I just can't bring myself to like the habit, now that I have wasted more time than ever before in my life thinking about it.

 

Here they don't put the sugar in for you.  Either they throw some packets in your carry-out bag or you go over to the side counter where they have the napkins, straws/stirrers, and condiments.  The stuff on that counter is not policed.  You take what you want and nobody cares how many sugars you take.  The employees periodically check and re-fill the bins.

[Bluegoat]

18 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

I agree.

I have to admit that I find it amazing that anyone would even notice how many sugar packets a person was taking, and am kind of horrified at the idea that anyone would judge a friend for taking a few packets of sugar. It seems like such a non-issue. 

 

I don't think this really follows.  I don't know that I've ever noticed how many sugars a person takes, or what they do with them.  But the OP asked the question - is it an ok thing to do.  

If I did discover someone was doing it, I don't know that I'd think much of it even then, though I might take note.  I have a relative, who is in many ways a lovely person, but I think she has soe dodgy issues in her moral accounting.  She and her then husband once told me that when they buy ice in bags at a gas station or similar, they often take more than they paid for.  Their view seemed to be that if they really cared they would supervise the ice removal.  It sounds odd, but I thought of this later when she divorced him because he was having an affair, and when she later took up with a fellow married to someone else.  Now - what nefarious things do the sugar-pinchers do in their spare time?  I don't know, maybe none, but I wonder what other things that way of thinking could justify.

[Bluegoat]

18 hours ago, SKL said:

A packet of sugar in the USA costs a penny or less.  (Presumably this is similar for the rest of the developed world.)  Buying an extra hundred packs in case of unintended use costs $1.  Really, if that is going to break the bank, you should probably not be in business.

My view on people taking what I wasn't intending to give them is that they probably needed it more than I did, and I hope their having it blesses them more than it hurts them.

 

It's not the business owner that pays, in the end, it's all the other people buying their coffee.  In any case, the coffee business doesn't have great margins.

It's nice that you feel generous to others, but it's a little different to feeling entitled to other people's stuff, which is the other side of the issue.  I suspect that most people would not object to someone who is homeless etc sticking an extra pack of sugar in his pocket for later.  Encouraging middle -aged tightwads to think they are entitled to that sugar though?

[Bluegoat]

17 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I read somewhere a while ago (don't remember where) that most hotels just throw them away after you check out.  I dunno if that's true, or still true, but if it is, I think it's probably more ethical to make sure they get used.  

 

Yes, this can also be true with the little soaps and such.  If that is the case, it's a different sort of accounting and I think it is fine to take them.

[SKL]

11 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

It's not the business owner that pays, in the end, it's all the other people buying their coffee.  In any case, the coffee business doesn't have great margins.

It's nice that you feel generous to others, but it's a little different to feeling entitled to other people's stuff, which is the other side of the issue.  I suspect that most people would not object to someone who is homeless etc sticking an extra pack of sugar in his pocket for later.  Encouraging middle -aged tightwads to think they are entitled to that sugar though?

Yep, you are right, and as a coffee drinker, it is likely I have paid about $0.50 extra over the course of my life due to people being pigs about sugar packs.  It's just awful.  Of course if I was actually so poor that that $0.50 over the course of 50+ years was going to make a difference to me, I would certainly not be buying prepared coffee, so maybe that is why this isn't really a thing on anyone's radar.

And I guarantee we have spent a lot more resources than that just chatting about this "issue" on the internet.

[SKL]

13 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Yes, this can also be true with the little soaps and such.  If that is the case, it's a different sort of accounting and I think it is fine to take them.

They are included.  It is always fine to take them.

What I don't totally agree with is that some people take them and give them to charity - that part is fine - but then they claim that THEY made a donation.  This was recommended for one of the drives in my previous job.  "When you're on company travel, take all the soaps etc. from the hotel bathroom and donate them here."  I'm not really sure what to call that, but it doesn't seem like charity on the part of the employee.  Not that it's wrong to do it, just wrong to claim charity cred for it.

[GoodGrief]

This post came to mind this morning as I was scrolling through the Facebook feed. An acquaintance posted a photo of her 8-9 yo son's collection of 20-ish Starbucks gift cards. Apparently he helps himself to an unloaded card whenever there is a new design. Never would have occurred to me that people would have an interest in taking those 

[happi duck]

2 hours ago, GoodGrief1 said:

This post came to mind this morning as I was scrolling through the Facebook feed. An acquaintance posted a photo of her 8-9 yo son's collection of 20-ish Starbucks gift cards. Apparently he helps himself to an unloaded card whenever there is a new design. Never would have occurred to me that people would have an interest in taking those 

This is one of those weird things.  The mom could put a few dollars on a card, use it up and then give it to him so I guess they are just cutting out some steps but surely that's not a good idea for people to start taking cards to collect. 

I give Starbucks cards as gifts and appreciate when I have choices.

[Emba]

I vote gray area. 

but what gets me is multiple posters saying serving guests sugar packets is tacky. Is the unspoken factor here that the packets are assumed to have busines logos on them? Or is there something intrinsically tacky about packets? Because I bought a small box of artificial sweetener packets for an occasional guest, since I don't use artificial sweetener. Small boxes of sugar packets are also available at Dollar Tree, which I would keep on hand for guests if I didn't use sugar. Seems less messy than a pound of loose sugar.

[marbel]

36 minutes ago, emba56 said:

I vote gray area. 

but what gets me is multiple posters saying serving guests sugar packets is tacky. Is the unspoken factor here that the packets are assumed to have busines logos on them? Or is there something intrinsically tacky about packets? Because I bought a small box of artificial sweetener packets for an occasional guest, since I don't use artificial sweetener. Small boxes of sugar packets are also available at Dollar Tree, which I would keep on hand for guests if I didn't use sugar. Seems less messy than a pound of loose sugar.

I think at least a couple people have said it's packets with business logos on them that we (or maybe just I) might find a bit tacky if I encountered them in someone's home. Or maybe it would just make me wonder about someone:  are they in a bad financial place?  Can they afford to have me over and offer me coffee? I don't buy artificial sweeteners but whenever I have seen them they are in packets. So I wouldn't find that tacky. It's not the packet for me, it's the fact they were nabbed from a business.

So yeah, it would be the bowl of Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, McDonald's etc. sugar packets that might give me pause.  I say might because I've never actually seen it

BTW I have gone to people's homes and they have not offered my desired "condiments" for coffee or tea. That is not a problem for me. If they don't have half and half or cream for coffee, I'll take milk or drink it black (though I normally hate black coffee). A Scottish friend fixes her tea with milk and sugar in the pot, then pours it for everyone. I don't drink sweetened tea by choice, but happily do so at my friend's. So I don't see the need to try to have every possible condiment available for guests at all times. I don't expect it from others!

ETA: And I know people who keep packets of their preferred non-sugar sweetener in their purse, so they have it when they are guests and the host doesn't stock what they prefer to use.

Edited November 22, 2018 by marbel

[Arcadia]

15 minutes ago, emba56 said:

Is the unspoken factor here that the packets are assumed to have busines logos on them? Or is there something intrinsically tacky about packets? 

 

I don’t think serving friends or relatives sugar packets is tacky.

However I was brought up to serve guests sugar and creamer in a sugar cube bowl and a creamer jug (as well as tea in a pot versus asking guests to help yourself to my collection of tea bags) e.g https://wilmax.com/products/642

I think packets just reminds people of a condiment tray at a hotel breakfast room or at Starbucks e.g. https://www.webstaurantstore.com/cal-mil-1714-96-midnight-bamboo-coffee-condiment-organizer-12-x-12-x-5-1-2/211171496.html

 

[shawthorne44]

On 11/20/2018 at 2:17 PM, Lady Florida. said:

...   As others already mentioned it's not being frugal, it's being cheap. The two are not interchangeable. ...

The sugar packets perfectly illustrates my definition of the difference between the two.  Cheap people only try to save money when it is THEIR money.    Frugal people try to save regards of where the money is from.