Student balance academics & "real life"

[shanezomom]

Any experience with this? Ds 16 absolutely loves school, practicing multiple instruments and reading. My dh is a hands-on guy always doing, building and making. Opposite passions. Summer is when this clashes. Ds works in our machine shop and mows 5 yards during the summer but he can't stand the machine shop. Dh's rule for him in the summer is that he must work 20 hours a week combining the two however he wants. Dh sees the endless hours of study, practice, etc. as being out of balance and told ds he must give up one of three music lessons/practice for the summer to free up some hours to get to 20 hours of work. Ds earned some CLEP college credits during the school year and would like nothing more than to read all summer long and take some more CLEPs. He already wakes up at 5:30 am on his own to get some studying/music practice in before we get up. We go camping for about 3 weeks each summer so it's not all work and no play.

Because I'm academically inclined, I would let him mow the yards and spend the rest of the time studying this summer. I appreciate the "life balance" principle but I disagree with dh about cutting out one music lesson/practice for the summer. Dh says if ds or I can figure out a better way to free up time to make 20 hours of work happen, go for it, but he sees three instrument and the daily hours of practice as excessive. My question isn't how to figure out where to cut hours, but I'd like to hear your experience if something similar ever came up in your family. I want to honor both dh's and ds's views, but I also don't want to shelter ds from the real world of work. Thanks

 

[wintermom]

I think that at age 16, a person with activities that are positive and meaningful to them ought to have the power to decide how to divide up the 20 hours. Dh gets to choose 20 hours of work needs to get done in a week, and ds decides how to fill the 20 hours.

Music is definitely a worthwhile pursuit, and keeping up the practice of 3 instruments takes a great deal of commitment and self-discipline. Working in a machine shop is also a worthwhile pursuit. The only difference I see between these 2 activities are the desire to do them. It seems obvious that your ds prefers playing music to working in a machine shop. My 14 year old son would be all over the machine shop, and be incredibly happy to ditch his music practice. Sadly, we don't have a machine shop. We have to find other options to fill ds's love of machines and building. 

 

[mom2scouts]

It seems likely that ds's "real world of work" may involve music or academics and not physical type labor. I understand your dh wanting ds to work, but it sounds like he is working with lawn mowing and practicing his music. Sorry, but I'd be going to bat for ds against dh's idea of what is acceptable work.

[freesia]

I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer in my house, the balance issue in your situation would be the balance of spending time alone vs with other people. Does he interact with others at the machine shop or elsewhere?

[2_girls_mommy]

I am with you. If someone at that age shows that much dedication and is doing the lawns to experience some work, the machine shop wouldn't be mandatory for me. If it is for dh, I would make sure the hours didn't get in the way of the music.

[Another Lynn]

If the value is work, your ds certainly has it in spades.  Imnsho, your dh should not inhibit his passion for music and study.  It's not like your ds is sitting around gaming all day refusing to mow yards or do any work.  Would your dh have wanted to take lessons and practice for 3 instruments at someone's insistence?  Nor should he expect ds to follow dh's work passions rather than his own.    

[TracyP]

My dad farmed and owned an electrostatic painting business when I was a teen. I was expected to work on both, which was definitely not always how I wanted to spend my summers. I had to work waaay more than 20 hrs a week. ? Looking back I think my time spent working was super valuable even though I often hated it at the time. But if your ds is 16, I'm guessing he's already been doing this for several years.

I'm torn. The requirement for teens to work for 20 (or more) hrs a week during the summer is pretty standard in my peer group. I am requiring my 14yo dd to do the same this summer. I guess I'm with your dh here. Even with working 20 hrs a week, your ds should easily have 30+ hrs to spend on his other pursuits while still keeping 20+ hrs of true down time. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

[nixpix5]

1 hour ago, shanezomom said:

Any experience with this? Ds 16 absolutely loves school, practicing multiple instruments and reading. My dh is a hands-on guy always doing, building and making. Opposite passions. Summer is when this clashes. Ds works in our machine shop and mows 5 yards during the summer but he can't stand the machine shop. Dh's rule for him in the summer is that he must work 20 hours a week combining the two however he wants. Dh sees the endless hours of study, practice, etc. as being out of balance and told ds he must give up one of three music lessons/practice for the summer to free up some hours to get to 20 hours of work. Ds earned some CLEP college credits during the school year and would like nothing more than to read all summer long and take some more CLEPs. He already wakes up at 5:30 am on his own to get some studying/music practice in before we get up. We go camping for about 3 weeks each summer so it's not all work and no play.

Because I'm academically inclined, I would let him mow the yards and spend the rest of the time studying this summer. I appreciate the "life balance" principle but I disagree with dh about cutting out one music lesson/practice for the summer. Dh says if ds or I can figure out a better way to free up time to make 20 hours of work happen, go for it, but he sees three instrument and the daily hours of practice as excessive. My question isn't how to figure out where to cut hours, but I'd like to hear your experience if something similar ever came up in your family. I want to honor both dh's and ds's views, but I also don't want to shelter ds from the real world of work. Thanks

 

I am so torn when reading this. My first inclination is to go to bat for DS and convince DH to trim down his expectations but the counselor side of me wants to also address the fact that it is probably because of your DHs insistance in part in providing this experience that has lead to a sharpening of your son's awareness of what he does want to do in life. Your DH has provided him with some significant contrast and there is serious value in him also working along side his dad, fostering that relationship. He will launch in a few short years and have his life to focus on what he wants. He only has this short period left for DH to instill values and it sounds like you both have done an incredible job doing that. 

Yikes, I am no help at all today. This is tough. Maybe a compromise. Maybe DH can provide him with some vacation time hours to ask for in advance so he can eek out more time during the summer. 

[Momto6inIN]

My DH is also very practical. He grew up on a farm and worked many, many more than 20 hours a week. He works in a non-physical job nowadays but is very adamant that our sons also learn how to do physical work. Not because he doesn't value their skills and interests in other areas, but because learning how to work hard physically often crosses over into knowing how to work hard at whatever other job you find yourself in later on in life. I don't think your DH is being unreasonable requesting 20 hours of week of work from a 16 year old, and your DS would still have 7 hours/week/instrument to make 41 hours a week. That still leaves plenty of free time to study if he chooses to.

Time management is tough for teens. Lots of discussions around our house with our DSs trying to juggle drama rehearsals, sets & backdrop construction, debate case research, academic work, social life, doing jobs around the house because they're part of the family and they live here, and working 24-32 hours a week. We have to remind them that sometimes you don't have a choice - you just have to do something even if you don't really want to (e.g. help with dishes after you've worked all day). But we also have to remind them that a lot of time what you think you have to do is really a choice (e.g. "Mom, I have to go do 9 hours of set construction this week" is a result of a choice to be involved in the set crew, not really a requirement) and then we have lots of interesting discussions about priorities and how to set them and how to maintain them. It's a balancing act for sure. And while I'd love to bail them out when they over-commit and get stressed out, it's been a tremendous learning opportunity for them on how to manage their time.

[Garga]

Is your son getting paid in the machine shop?   Why does your dh want him to work 20 hours a week?  Can your dh articulate that?  I don’t really like it when people make up rules that they can’t articulate.  I’d want to know his reasons for 20 hours and his reasons that it has to be the machine shop.  Will any job fulfil dh’s requirements? Can he get a different paying job like at a fast food restaurant? Or is one of the reasons for the machine shop that he wants his son to be able to figure out how to fix things with his hands, so that in the future he is self-sufficient and not having to call handymen to fix everything for him?

Does your DH understand exactly how many thousands and thousands of dollars DS could be saving the family due to CLEP?  Does the college your son want to attend accept CLEP credits?

Does your son get enough exercise when left on his own?  

Exactly how many hours a week does your son spend on music?  How many hours does he need to read to prep for CLEP tests?  Is there already enough time in the day if you schedule it carefully?  Teens need 9 or 10 hours of sleep a night, so your son has 14 hours a day to work with, which is 98 hours a week.  Don’t forget to schedule time to eat/dress/bathe and all those routine things.

Maybe if you and dh look over the schedule and both articulate what you want for your son, what to do might become clearer. 

 

 

 

 

[regentrude]

I don't understand the reasoning at all. Academic work is work, and the ROI of time spent prepping for CLEP exams is probably much better than working minimum wage.

I am all for teenagers spending their time in a meaningful way, but your DS is doing that. Study, music, mowing are meaningful activities, and well balanced. Music is balancing the academics. I cannot fathom telling a teen they must cut down on music practice - unless his wages are necessary to help support the family.

[sweet2ndchance]

On the one hand, 20 hours a week is the cap for most college work-study jobs. Those hours are typically worked around the student's class schedule in 2 - 4 hour chunks several days a week. So I don't think 20 hours a week is an unreasonable number by any means. However, I would never discourage a child from academic or musical pursuits to fulfill work hours. They will be an adult in the real world for the rest of their lives, they only get to be a child and able to pursue their dreams with reckless abandon for a short time. No harm in introducing the real world before they have to live in the real world but there is no reason in my opinion to force them to live in the real world before they are no longer children. My opinion would be different if he were 18, but he's not. He's 16 and still a child by legal definition.

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

 My opinion would be different if he were 18, but he's not. He's 16 and still a child by legal definition.

I think for an 18 y/o, parents should no longer micromanage at all how he spends his time.

[sweet2ndchance]

7 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I think for an 18 y/o, parents should no longer micromanage at all how he spends his time.

Me too, but I also wouldn't oppose telling an 18yo legal adult they have to work and pay for things on their own or going to school or otherwise furthering their education if they are going to live in my house rent free. A child gets to live in my house rent free regardless and I would not force them to work in addition to school. They can work if they want extra spending money or work experience but I wouldn't force them to work.

[SKL]

Could your son use his time in the machine shop to give life to some creative ideas?  What if he started a craft or instrument repair business?  Or some other way to use available tools to follow his own interests (and get paid/recognized for it)?

Honestly, I have nothing against a 16yo working 20 hours in the summer - I think it is an excellent idea.  But I think your son should have more input into how that time is spent.  Would your husband accept a different kind of work, such as giving music lessons?  Hands-on volunteering at a national park?  Some kind of conservation or landscaping work?  Rehabbing old bikes or motorcycles or a beater car?  So many options.

[Bluegoat]

So, it's 20 hours plus the lawns?  I am wondering how much that is altogether?  I am also wondering if he is getting paid for it.

Anyway - my thought is, if he has to do that work, why insist he cut out practice?  Can't he decide on his own if it is too much?  If he starts looking haggard or being sad about it, then talk about it, but otherwise I'd say.let him figure it out.

If lessons are involved, I could see maybe dropping one and just practicing that instrument, so that there is a little more "give" in his schedule - he isn't needing to keep up with the lesson.

[EmilyGF]

How does he pay for the music lessons? I don't think there's any way my DH would be willing to pay for lessons on three instruments. I could see him requiring a 16-year-old to pay for lessons on one or two of the instruments. That would then give DS16 incentive to work but the freedom to work in areas he chooses. 

Emily

[RootAnn]

I guess I'm coming down on your ds's side. I don't think he should be required to work 20 hrs/week in the machine shop. If the requirement is to work 20 hrs/week, I'm okay with that. He should be able to count the mowing time toward that 20 hrs/week. Or, he gets a separate part time job (of his choosing) for that 20 hrs/week - and doesn't have to mow or work in the machine shop.

I think music and reading is just as important as the work and the CLEP is a cherry on the top. IMO, I'd be going to bat for DS once DS had a plan.

[SKL]

Just another thought - and this is showing my blue collar background - but could the dad also be thinking that it looks good to have a "real job" on the resume / applications?  Do other parents not think there is some value in that?  Personally I would weigh a part-time trade occupation more in a candidate's favor than a third instrument.  (Though I also suspect a 16yo could do both if he really wanted to play that 3rd instrument.)

[shanezomom]

I'm the OP, and your comments have been so helpful. Thank you for taking the time. 

Some of you had asked: Yes, ds does get paid for mowing and machine shop work. He prefers mowing because it works out more per hour. By mid-summer the mowing hours decrease. Dh likes ds working in shop because he really needs the help, and he absolutely wants ds to be handier than he is inclined to be on his own. That's how dh sees it as important for balance. Not all book smarts. 

I think ds has realized that he has more free time than he thought, so he will be able to practice and read as much as I think he hoped. He pays for his own guitar lessons, and we pay for piano and voice. It does add up. He has decided to put piano lessons on hold for a couple months but he is will still practice every day as usual. He plays banjo, electric bass and congas without lessons. 

I think the issue is settling down into something workable, and your responses helped me see that there is a valuable mix of opinions. Thank you for being a sounding board that is beyond what my face-to-face friends and family can provide. 

 

 

[wintermom]

4 hours ago, shanezomom said:

 he absolutely wants ds to be handier than he is inclined to be on his own. 

This makes no sense to me. How can an adult force a desire or skill to "be handy" on another human being? By 16 years, I'm sure your ds has had ample time to learn the basics of "being handy" in the machine shop from dad.  How does one even proceed to "be handier on one's own?"  Seems like the young man is showing his "handiness" with a wide variety of musical instruments. Or is it only doing dad's work in the machine shop that proves he is "being handy?"

Perhaps, if he's not already doing this, your ds can present some concrete achievements and goals to his father of what he wishes to accomplish with his musical pursuits?  If your dh is a "show me the results" kind of person, maybe your ds can compile some recordings of his work, list his music groups and where he has performed/shared his music, or described his future goals with his music.

[Selkie]

I can understand your dh wanting your ds to be handy because it is something that could be of enormous benefit to him in the future. The people I know who are skilled at building things or fixing things are all able to make a good living. On the other hand, I know plenty of people who are very talented musicians but most of them can't support themselves without working other, non-musical jobs. Even if your ds doesn't think he ever wants to do the type of work that your dh does, it would be a great skill to learn so he could fall back on it if need be in the future.

[Frances]

On 5/15/2018 at 9:42 AM, Selkie said:

I can understand your dh wanting your ds to be handy because it is something that could be of enormous benefit to him in the future. The people I know who are skilled at building things or fixing things are all able to make a good living. On the other hand, I know plenty of people who are very talented musicians but most of them can't support themselves without working other, non-musical jobs. Even if your ds doesn't think he ever wants to do the type of work that your dh does, it would be a great skill to learn so he could fall back on it if need be in the future.

Even people who don’t make a living from a skilled trade can enormously benefit from being handy. My husband has saved us major $$$ over the years because he can make, fix, build, or repair almost anything. He has two science doctorates and is a talented artist, but probably takes the most pride in the things he has designed and built with his hands.

[daijobu]

19 hours ago, Frances said:

Even people who don’t make a living from a skilled trade can enormously benefit from being handy. My husband has saved us major $$$ over the years because he can make, fix, build, or repair almost anything. He has two science doctorates and is a talented artist, but probably takes the most pride in the things he has designed and built with his hands.

I agree with this.  You can save a lot of money, and also do a better job than many contractors.  I'm on the fence about forcing your son into this, because what a wonderful gift it would be!  

[Gil]

Never mind, I hadn't seen OPs update.

Glad that you guys found a solution/medium that works for you.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Gil