Stupid people

[Scarlett]

From my local newspaper’s Home Guides section How to Clean a Floor With a Microfiber Pad http://homeguides.sfgate.com/clean-floor-microfiber-pad-28863.html

 

“1 Attach pad to mop head. In most brands, the pad is tucked into slots on the mop head or beneath a frame.

 

2 Dip pad in water or apply a small amount of cleaning solution if wet mopping is desired. Some microfiber mop pads are designed to work with a cleaning solution sprayed from a bottle attached to the mop handle. Push button to spray solution as needed. Dust and pet hair can be cleaned up with a dry mop.

 

3 Push the mop along the floor to collect dirt. Add water or cleaning solution as needed if not dry mopping. Continue to run the mop along the surface of the floor until it has been completely cleaned. Depending on the size of the floor and how dirty it is, the microfiber pad may need to be changed when it becomes saturated with dirt.

 

4 Wash the microfiber pad under warm running water to remove dirt or wash in a washing machine on warm. Because of the amount of dirt that will be released from the pad while washing, pads should be washed separately or with other highly soiled items. Dry the microfiber pads on a low dryer setting or let air dry.â€

Well this is not a microfiber pad and there is no washing machine on the premises and there is a wet mop in plain site. So yeah.

[Renthead Mommy]

Yes I do think some people are stupid.

And maybe they do it on purpose to piss off the cleaning lady. Because they know how you feel about them.

[Laura Corin]

Yes I do think some people are stupid.

 

I'm wondering if there is a vocabulary difference here.  When someone makes an honest mistake, do you think they are stupid?  

 

A former colleague of mine used to say to her children, 'Don't be morons!'  I suggested that calling her children morons was not kind and not helpful.  She said that she wasn't calling them morons, but she couldn't see that when they inevitably made mistakes (they were small) then they had been labelled morons in advance.  I don't like the word anyway, but I focused on the picture she was building in her children's heads.

 

So if someone makes a mistake, are they stupid?  Or are they just a fallible human being?  Is there space for charity?

Edited December 26, 2017 by Laura Corin

[HomeAgain]

Yes I do think some people are stupid.

 

It. Is. Christmas. :sad:

 

Colossians 3:12 - Therefore as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.

 

Go and celebrate, Scarlett. 

[ThisIsTheDay]

https://www.amazon.com/Cedar-Dual-Action-Microfiber-Sweeper-Dust/dp/B00L9RL9SA/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1514208028&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=dust+mop&psc=1

 

Would you think this was for liquids?

 

I would think it's a mop. In my effort to clean something up, I would not be considering there are different types of mops. I guarantee you that my aduilt children would have NO clue this is a dry mop and have never heard of such a thing.

 

But then how would you get the water out of it? 🤔

 

I do not mop. I would not be thinking of the next step, how water would get out of it. For the past 25 years, I have lived in houses with wood floors. My husband is the only one who mops them, and he usually does it when I am not around. He'll do the whole shebang, mopping, then using something that makes them all shiny. (See how little I know?) That makes me lucky, not stupid!

 

 

This is so interesting. You have a mop.....if you spilled a bunch of liquid on the floor and you mop it up....you now have a soaking, dripping mess of liquid in your mop. And you just let that air dry?

 

If I got to that point, I would be thinking, Crap, what do I do now? At that point, I would rinse it off and leave it in a place where it could dry off. I would think, "I am NEVER doing that again!"

[Zinnia]

I also use a mop that is billed as wet/dry. I do use it as a dry mop, mostly for walls/ceilings and cobwebs, but mostly, I use it wet. I then take off the head, rinse it, and reuse it. It works well for me. I wouldn't know what to do with an industrial drainer (those yellow bucket things?).

[Wheres Toto]

Believe it or not there are actually lazy people in the world. It is an actual word with a definition and everything.

 

I did learn from this read that not everyone knows what a dust mop is for. That is very surprising to me and actually did give me pause as to what they might have been thinking. Regardless, there was no good excuse for leaving the mess the way and the place it was left.

 

Just out of curiosity, once they used the mop to clean up the spill if they didn't know the head comes off and it won't fit in the sink and they didn't have anyone to ask at that moment, where would you have expected them to leave it?

 

I would assume leaving it in a utility closet (that probably deals with spills and wet mops all the time) is better than leaving it in the lunchroom or CEO's office.

[maize]

So I'll share a recent story about doing a job that isn't mine and doing it very poorly :)

 

On Saturday the head of a violin repair shop called me to discuss a quote for a violin I had taken in. Her first comment was "someone put an awful soundpost in here, I don't know what they were thinking!" I laughed, then told her that I was responsible for that soundpost and yes I knew it was awful.

 

Here's the story:

 

My dd14 needed a full size violin, and I had limited funds. I took a chance on an older violin from ebay, one that was being sold without bridge, strings, or soundpost. Once I had the violin in hand I wanted to try it out to see if it was a decent enough instrument to be worth spending money on a professional set up. I had strings on hand, and borrowed a bridge from another violin though of course it didn't fit quite right. But you can't set up and play a violin without a soundpost. So I made one. And I inserted it using a large bent safety pin.

 

Of course I knew it wasn't a professional job; it served its purpose though, which was to help me determine that yes the violin was worth taking to a professional to get a real soundpost.

 

Was I stupid for doing someone else's job and doing it so terribly?

Edited December 26, 2017 by maize

[Sandwalker]

 

 

So I'll share a recent story about doing a job that isn't mine and doing it very poorly :)

 

On Saturday the head of a violin repair shop called me to discuss a quote for a violin I had taken in. Her first comment was "someone put an awful soundpost in here, I don't know what they were thinking!" I laughed, then told her that I was responsible for that soundpost and yes I knew it was awful.

 

Here's the story:

 

My dd14 needed a full size violin, and I had limited funds. I took a chance on an older violin from ebay, one that was being sold without bridge, strings, or soundpost. Once I had the violin in hand I wanted to try it out to see if it was a decent enough instrument to be worth spending money on a professional set up. I had strings on hand, and borrowed a bridge from another violin though of course it didn't fit quite right. But you can't set up and play a violin without a soundpost. So I made one. And I inserted it using a large bent safety pin.

 

Of course I knew it wasn't a professional job; it served its purpose though, which was to help me determine that yes the violin was worth taking to a professional to get a real soundpost.

 

Was I stupid for doing someone else's job and doing it so terribly?

IT DEPENDS! DID YOU BRING THE TRASH BAG TO THE UTILITY CLOSET?!?

[TechWife]

LOL....ok then. Now we know your Dh is a very important non lazy man with a top secret job and his office gets cleaned every three months.

 

No wonder you are talking down to me. I obviously am so stupid I can't comprehend how much more Important these office employees are than I am.

 

Good to know. It really clears up so much for me.

 

Top secret in the truest sense? No. Having access to proprietary information where industry spies are a real thing? Yes. 

 

No, you don't seem to comprehend that their time is simply more financially valuable to their companies than yours is. His job makes money for the company. Yours does not. Just like they hire you to clean, they hire him to do the job he does. If he isn't doing his job, he is costing the company money. If he is doing your job, he is costing the company much more money than if you were to do it. 

[TechWife]

Give me a break. All of you with all of this 'not my job crap' . Just stop it.

 

 

 

Think of it this way, then. If they clean their own offices, you will be out of a job. Then you will be able to say "Not my job." 

[Laura Corin]

 

No, you don't seem to comprehend that their time is simply more financially valuable to their companies than yours is. His job makes money for the company. Yours does not. Just like they hire you to clean, they hire him to do the job he does. If he isn't doing his job, he is costing the company money. If he is doing your job, he is costing the company much more money than if you were to do it. 

 

Exactly.  And in my job: my wage is lower than an academic's.  If an academic makes an administrative mistake, it makes sense for me to run around sorting it out while the academic gets on with the tasks that someone with my background cannot complete (marking papers, preparing for next semester, carrying out  research that brings prestige to the university).  It makes financial sense and it's my job.  

Edited December 26, 2017 by Laura Corin

[Bootsie]

Yes. Yes I am aware. And I do my job. And I still maintain that it is unreasonable that any human would have a trash can next to their desk or in their small kitchen space and rather than switch out bags they let the trash pile up on the floor around. JOB or not.

 

Many weeks I pick up trash off of the floor because the trash can is overflowing. I do it because it is my job and because the humans who work there are content to work with trash on their floor rather than pick it up and switch out bags. I can do my JOB and still think people are ridiculous.

If this is happening often, it would seem the reasonable thing to do is get bigger trash cans.  Or, perhaps, management needs to hire cleaning people to come in more often.  

[Bootsie]

I think most of the people in my family would see the wet mop and say that it is for getting the floors wet-- You stick the mop in a bucket with water and cleaning solution.  You put in on the floor and get the floor wet, you don't walk on the floor while it is wet, and eventually the floor dries.  It would be counterintuitive to them of how dumping strings in a bucket of water and then putting that all over the floor would absorb what you are wanting to get off of the floor. 

 

The would see the "dry mop" as something to use to dry the floor.  It looks absorbent like it would soak up a spill.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Really? How on earth is this allowed to stay here? I thought we weren’t supposed to get personal???

You are right. It is too personal.  My intention was not to cause any harm.  I was frustrated and misworded my response. I shall remove it.

Edited December 26, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[OneStepAtATime]

You know what, Scarlett? I don’t agree with much of what you post, but it seems like her remark has crossed the rules here for personal attacks. Saying it’s not in your DNA, in my opinion, is quite crappy.

I would never want to be someone responsible for cleaning offices. My husband worked at a county office for engineers, university educated humans, mothers and fathers, well paid employees. And yet someone still pooped on the floor, peed on the walls, and left personal hygiene used products in sinks on a weekly basis, all in an employee-accessed restroom. Sometimes people really are stupid and disgusting.

I corrected the post and apologized.  I definitely did not intend any harm.  I should not have worded things the way I did and do not hold ill will towards Scarlett.  I was tired and frustrated over many things going on at home, was frustrated with this thread and should have simply waited until I was in a better frame of mind before saying anything.

Edited December 26, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[OneStepAtATime]

I think most of the people in my family would see the wet mop and say that it is for getting the floors wet-- You stick the mop in a bucket with water and cleaning solution.  You put in on the floor and get the floor wet, you don't walk on the floor while it is wet, and eventually the floor dries.  It would be counterintuitive to them of how dumping strings in a bucket of water and then putting that all over the floor would absorb what you are wanting to get off of the floor. 

 

The would see the "dry mop" as something to use to dry the floor.  It looks absorbent like it would soak up a spill.  

Actually this is a good point.  When I pull out my regular mop I do it to actually mop the whole floor with a cleaning solution.  I don't normally use it to mop up spills. I usually use rags or paper towels or my swiffer mop (not the sweeper) for that, although I couldn't really tell you why.  

[marbel]

Top secret in the truest sense? No. Having access to proprietary information where industry spies are a real thing? Yes. 

 

No, you don't seem to comprehend that their time is simply more financially valuable to their companies than yours is. His job makes money for the company. Yours does not. Just like they hire you to clean, they hire him to do the job he does. If he isn't doing his job, he is costing the company money. If he is doing your job, he is costing the company much more money than if you were to do it. 

 

I agree.  Just wanted to add that there is nothing wrong with the fact that the cleaning person's job doesn't make money for the company.  

 

My son works part-time in a little iron-work shop. He does cleaning and basic grunt work.  One of the guys there commented recently that when my kid was hired, he (the other employee) wondered why they were hiring someone who didn't actually make money for the company, but now saw the value he added by freeing up the welders' (and other workers) time to produce the goods the company sells. I was glad he said it, as sometimes people don't see that and it can be disheartening to a worker who doesn't actually produce something for the company.  I know it made a positive difference in my kid's attitude toward his job. 

 

So it's a value-add, but in a different way.    

 

(I know TechWife wasn't saying the work isn't valuable, just felt like throwing in that specific example.)

[bolt.]

I think your standard for "not stupid" is very high. I know a lot of people that I consider "not stupid" who don't know the proper uses for different industrial style cleaning tools. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people I know wouldn't recognize which tool was correct.

 

I own neither a wet mop nor a dry mop. If I spilled at work I would use paper towels. I wouldn't use tools that don't belong to me unless I was quite desperate. If I used them wrong, I wouldn't feel stupid about it.

 

Additionally, if I worked in an office with cleaning staff, I would not expect to change my own garbage or do other menial/general environmentally tasks. It's not worth my hourly rate. To do it would cost my employer money and compromise the efficiency of their operation.

 

It's not within my authority to say, "I see here that you hired me to spend 40 hours a week accomplishing xyz, but, since I don't like messes I've decided to only accomplish 95% of my assigned work and put 5% of my paid efforts towards my own comfort instead of my paid role."

 

If I habitually generated more garbage than my receptacle would hold between scheduled cleanings, I would expect it to be replaced with a receptacle of appropriate size.

Edited December 26, 2017 by bolt.

[Bootsie]

I think it was rude for the person who used the mop not to rinse it out and just leave it there to moulder for 'the cleaner'. 

 

I agree with you on the trash.

 

The sensible thing for the person to have done would be to mop up the mess with some paper or cloth towel, and then dispose of/rinse out said towel.

 

Some people do not use their common sense.

 

I would have no patience for an office environment where people left their trash lying around 'till the cleaner came' because of some weird notions about becoming the lowest on the totem pole (which tells you a lot anyway, cleaners are not 'lowest', they are part of a team. Unless people want to do their own cleaning, which it appears they don't. So fine. But having a cleaner is no reason to work like a slob.)

 

The cleaner is there for long term maintainance of a space; workers can darn well empty out an overflowing trashcan, wipe up minor spills and not leave cleaning equipment used for spot cleaning dirty. 

 

Anyway, Just my 2c worth. Nothing to do with recognising the mop as a dry mop - I may have made that error myself. Just...leave people's working equipment as you found it. 

But to do the sensible thing would have required that there be a cloth towel or plenty of paper towels to do this.  I have worked in a number of office situations where this would not be the case.  I worked in one office of state employees where there were hand blowers in the bath and no paper towels--we were told state money could not be used to provide paper towels to clean up after messes made by employees making coffee, etc. If there was a large enough spill that the mop was so wet that it had not aired dry--it would have taken many paper towels to clean it up--and where are they to be put?  In the overflowing trash can?  Maybe the person did not that was a sensible thing to do to the environment.

 

It may have nothing to do with seeing that cleaners are the lowest on the totem pole.  Working in an office, I can see a number of ways this kind of situation could evolve.  Maybe a client is in the office and spills a bottle of water.  Someone quickly grabs a mop and cleans it up and goes about the business of meeting with the client, not wanting the waste the client's time or make the client feel bad.  By the time the meeting is over the person forgot that the mop was wet and stuck back in the closet in haste.  It simply has to do with cleaning is not the primary focus of that person's job, not that the person thinks that cleaning is beneath them.

[maize]

Some people just don't think. It's annoying.

Some people lack experience with particular cleaning tools.

 

Some people have executive functioning difficulties.

 

 

People, all sorts if people, do stuff that others find irritating and frustrating--for all sorts of reasons.

 

Expressing frustration is one thing.

 

Labeling people as stupid or idiots is something else entirely.

 

Dh and I have both done janitorial work. I don't see someone whose job is not janitorial who handles a janitorial task in an incompetent manner as stupid.

 

I don't even think that someone who could have thought things through and been more considerate is stupid.

 

I sympathize with Scarlett's frustration as her job was made unnecessarily more difficult, but I don't sympathize with name calling and denigration of other humans.

[Bootsie]

If you have no option but to use the cleaner's work equipment, leave it as you found it. 

 

I do not believe office staff are so busy as to be unable to rinse out a mop and prop it up to dry.

 

This is basic stuff. 

All I know is that the mop was found wet.  I cannot assume that it was not rinsed out (nor can I assume that it was not used to mop up water which could result in someone assuming it didn't need to be rinsed out).   Nor, can I assume that someone did not prop it up to dry and it was found before it had time to dry.

[OneStepAtATime]

Yep.

 

And plenty of people show no respect for cleaners. I'd include misusing and dirtying the tools they use to complete their jobs properly as a lack of respect.

I agree with the first. Plenty of people don't show respect for cleaners. I agree, absolutely. It can be a really thankless job (and yes I have done it).

 

I think, though, there is a disconnect here in the view of the person in this particular instance that messed up. I don't automatically think "Stupid person who has no respect and is lazy" when someone makes a mistake. People make mistakes. It happens. I try to give the benefit of the doubt. Having seen the type of dry mop that was used I absolutely 100% could see someone who was genuinely trying to clean up a spill picking that item up to clean it, then not knowing what to do with it afterwards. Not because they are "stupid and lazy" or disrespectful but because they genuinely didn't know.

 

I think the frustration from many here, including me, was the really negative assumption about the other person's character, not Scarlet's frustration at their actions. I think most of us sympathize with the extra work that Scarlet ended up having to deal with and her irritation at the mess left in the utility room. What many of us I think were trying to address regarded the attack on their character, not only because it seems unkind but because it may be making it harder for Scarlet to just work on trying to fix the actual problem instead of dwelling on how "stupid" people are. I try hard to extend grace because that not only seems the right thing to do it also helps my own mental state and ability to problem solve a given situation.

 

On a side note, I don't know about anyone else but I also have family and friends that have anxiety over how to do a task they are not super familiar with and will sometimes just stop doing it altogether if they feel they have done something incorrectly even if they have done it before. My son and daughter used to get resistant to any chores and I couldn't figure out why. DH attributed it to laziness. I knew he was wrong. Our kids are not lazy. I discovered they had some anxiety/perfectionism that were locking them up. We started over with a training program in how to do specific chores. Things that I'm sure many would think were "simple" and "easy" and my kids must be stupid and lazy for not being able to just do them correctly, but were nevertheless causing them stress. I showed them grace, we started over, I worked through an apprenticeship program with them, including lots of positive reinforcement, clear communication, and consistency. It made all the difference. They do everything I ask and do it well now. Are there sometimes moans and groans? Only if they are very tired or they are in the middle of something that matters to them and I fully understand those moans and groans.

 

Many here have posted that they have never seen or heard of a dry mop. After Scarlet showed an example, many here have posted that they would have chosen that item to clean up a wet spill because it looks like it might be designed for that purpose. Many here were simply trying to help Scarlet see a different way of viewing the situation, in the hopes it would help her be less irritated towards the person while she brainstorms ways to solve it for next time. I find when I sort of vilify the other person that is upsetting me it actually makes my own mental state worse. I get even more upset. I get in a cycle of frustration and complaining that winds me up further instead of actually helping me look rationally at the situation and coming up with workable solutions.

 

My posts (except for the poorly worded one that I deleted and regret posting) were intended to hopefully help Scarlet shift her focus from "stupid" and "lazy" to possibly inexperienced/uncertain and needing some grace so it would hopefully help her more effectively work through options. It had zero to do with privilege or disrespect for her job. I feel that many others were coming from the same place (although I could be wrong, I admit).

 

Best wishes and hopes for a better year in 2018.

 

ETA for clarification

Edited December 26, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[OneStepAtATime]

I think we can take the word of a person we know, that the equipment she uses to do her job properly, was misused and it made extra work for her.

 

That's the end of the story.

 

I'm done. Just think the sport of jumping down Scarlett's throat is getting a bit OTT around here. 

I agree, the equipment she uses to do her job was misused and it made extra work for Scarlet.  I totally sympathize.  Again, I don't think anyone was disputing that aspect.

[OneStepAtATime]

Idk. Scarlett is our friend here. We don't know the mop user. Why, when someone posts in frustration, did it have to become an object lesson in how Scarlett needs personal development ?

 

This should have just been a thread that said 'Oh, how annoying. I might make the same mistake with the mop but hey, I can see that it's really a pain in the backside to have to deal with your tools being misused. Sorry you had extra work made for you. That sucks.'

 

Same good wishes to you for the coming year.

 

 

'

Because this was not a JAWM thread.  She was asking advice on how to handle the situation.  My advice and suggestions were from that position.   In my opinion, her labeling the person as stupid and lazy was causing it to be harder for her to think through and come up with a workable solution for the long term or to listen to some of the usable ideas on this thread.  I AM sorry she had extra work and that the person did not know how to use the equipment properly.  

 

And thanks, Sadie.  I really, really do hope you and your family (and everyone) have a good 2018.  

[Renthead Mommy]

That would say a lot more about them than it would about the cleaning lady. 

 

 

No it says about the same as the cleaning lady that calls them stupid and lazy. 

[marbel]

Give me a break. All of you with all of this 'not my job crap' . Just stop it.

 

This reminds me of the woman here on the boards who cleaned an office building and asked of of us to keep,our kids from touching the glass that she has to clean. I was shocked at how many of you said, 'it is your job to clean the glass'. I taught my son to not touch glass because someone has to clean it.,,

 

 

These kind of threads bring out the non-working class nature of these boards, imo. 

 

I remember the glass thread. And yes. I teach my kids to be considerate of cleaners, shop assistants etc. You don't go around making extra work for them.

 

Having to lug a stinky, wet mop head home is extra work.

 

Huh.  Can't people do both? 

 

As I said upthread, I clean my church, for pay (a token amount).  

 

We have a lot of little kids there. They like to touch things, sometimes with sticky or otherwise unclean fingers.  Including the glass front doors.  Some kids really like trying to open the doors for other people, and of course they touch the glass.

 

I understand that, and I expect to clean the glass. It doesn't make me angry.  But I also taught my kids not to touch glass doors, windows, display cases, because "someone has to clean that."  I doubt my kids were perfect about it and I don't expect perfection from others. I do appreciate it when I hear a parent telling a child, "don't touch the glass; it gets dirty and you know someone has to clean it."  Once I heard a mom say "do you know that Miss Margaret does all the cleaning here?  So let's try not to  make a big mess for her, OK?"  I thought that was really nice. 

 

Of course I still understand it's my job to clean the glass, to clean up goldfish crumbs and bits of crayon from under the pews, etc.  Still I appreciate it when people make an effort not to be messy.

Edited December 26, 2017 by marbel

[Seasider]

The only real conclusion we can reach is that, for this time period anyway, is that the cleaning services are inadequate.

 

Not that the cleaner is doing a poor job, or that the office workers are lazy, but that the frequency of custodial service is not meeting the tenants' needs.

 

If there's anyone to be called "stupid" (which is obviously debatable), it's the building's landlord. Wouldn't surprise me if he refuses to provide more frequent cleaning -once a week is really not much- and tenants are rebelling, with the brunt of their protest falling on the janitor.

[scoutingmom]

I'm done. Just think the sport of jumping down Scarlett's throat is getting a bit OTT around here.

The thing is.... When I am online I generally do not pay much attention to who is saying what. It just isn't something that even registers with me usually. This is the case on here, on other boards I am on, and even mostly on facebook. That said, occasionally I start to recognize a particular person's style or voice, and when I recognize that a post is by that person I check the name and I start to recognize that person's posts. But I don't look at who wrote the posts unless I have that recognition. I am starting to "recognize" Scarlett. Not immediately, but in a thread after a few posts by her I will be reading and it sounds familiar and I check.

 

I started reading this thread with no idea who posted it. As I was reading, I was finding myself annoyed basically by the attitude and tone. I had various things to reply, but wanted to see what had already been said. I started seein responses to the commens, then I had the recognition and checked, and yes the thread was by Scarlett. I then didn't bother replying.

 

Just to say... I would have a lot to say about this topic, but we just seem to argue past each other. There is also something about her posts that make me want to comment. I don't think people are trying to jump down her throat. I think people want her to see there is another point of view. And honestly, starting a post insulting someone generally makes me want to rise to their defense.

Edited December 27, 2017 by scoutingmom

[scoutingmom]

The only real conclusion we can reach is that, for this time period anyway, is that the cleaning services are inadequate.

 

Not that the cleaner is doing a poor job, or that the office workers are lazy, but that the frequency of custodial service is not meeting the tenants' needs.

 

If there's anyone to be called "stupid" (which is obviously debatable), it's the building's landlord. Wouldn't surprise me if he refuses to provide more frequent cleaning -once a week is really not much- and tenants are rebelling, with the brunt of their protest falling on the janitor.

Absolutely my thought. Once a week is not often enough in an office. Most offices I worked in was nightly or every other night. Worst was 2x a week.

 

I have done office cleaning. I have also had jobs working in an office. If my garbage can was overfowing, if I had access to bags I would have tied the bag and put beside it IF I had access to a replacement bag. If not, then not sure what I would have done because... no bags. I wouldn't expect it to happen on a regular basis because our offices were cleaned often. But I could see it at Christmas time maybe. Cleaning services came with the office. It was paid for. I wouldn't try to make it harder on the cleaning staff, but I'm not going to spend my time doing their job either. I was being paid to program computers. Wouldn't it be wrong to expect my employer to pay for cleaning services (part of rent) as well as pay for time I spent cleaning instead of doing my job?

 

Yes, if I spilled something I would clean it up. I never had access to utility rooms, so I would use paper towels. I did recognize the mop as usually used as a dust mop. I think the person made a reasonable mistake and at least cleaned the spill. If they knew the fuss about it, they would likely just not bother to clean another spill because their previous efforts were met with a fuss. I assume that they do not know about this fuss though. Marking the mop as for use on dry floors only is a simple solution.

 

I am assuming the extra garbage in the kitchen was from either a Christmas party or someone cleaning out the fridge, and therefore an annoying, but only an occasional problem. If it is a regular issue, it is a symptom of the 1x a week cleaning being an inadequate frequency, but might be rectified by a larger container or more containers.

 

But honestly a 1x a week cleabing schedule is too infrequent.

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[Scarlett]

Well I stepped away from the computer for a day or so.  

 

In my original post I asked for help with the wording of basically 'please do no use the dust mop for liquids'.  I recognized many of you react strongly to my description of the people in this office as stupid.  Fair enough.  I can say I should not call anyone stupid because it is unkind.  Once in a while though I would like to be able to post something without 15 people explaining the error of my ways/thinking.  I was frustrated and upset.  

 

As for the office.....There are no 'clients'.  There is an abundance of paper towels.  No one in this office has any say over the lease or details there in and no one is 'taking it out on me' because the landlord doesn't provide enough cleaning.  This is a government contract and the margin is not there to provide more cleaning service than what is provided.  

 

And I absolutely think it is a load of crap that ANYONE is too valuable and highly paid to empty their trash if it is overflowing FOR WHATEVER REASON.  

 

A special note to Sadie for taking the mental energy and time to defend me when she is going through so much of her own hardship.  

[nixpix5]

I think ultimately many people exist in the "no sense in both of us worrying about it" mentality. If they don't have to clean it and the magical clean fairy comes and does it, there is no consequence for their action. It is simple laziness and inconsiderate behavior in my opinion. Most people are aware what happens to a trash can without a bag. Since they don't have to clean it, they don't seem to care. Just my opinion having lost alot of optimism in humanity...

[scoutingmom]

 

 

Well I stepped away from the computer for a day or so.

 

In my original post I asked for help with the wording of basically 'please do no use the dust mop for liquids'. I recognized many of you react strongly to my description of the people in this office as stupid. Fair enough. I can say I should not call anyone stupid because it is unkind. Once in a while though I would like to be able to post something without 15 people explaining the error of my ways/thinking. I was frustrated and upset.

 

As for the office.....There are no 'clients'. There is an abundance of paper towels. No one in this office has any say over the lease or details there in and no one is 'taking it out on me' because the landlord doesn't provide enough cleaning. This is a government contract and the margin is not there to provide more cleaning service than what is provided.

 

And I absolutely think it is a load of crap that ANYONE is too valuable and highly paid to empty their trash if it is overflowing FOR WHATEVER REASON.

 

A special note to Sadie for taking the mental energy and time to defend me when she is going through so much of her own hardship.

Ok, shall I ever work in an office that is cleaned so infrequently, I shall remember to keep a stack of my own garbage bags so that I can change my own garbage.

 

Sorry if my opinion that my employers pay me to do one job and pay someone else to do another and that I should not waste their money by doing the other persons job when I should be doing mine, does not match your opinion that that indicates a lack of value felt for the person that does that job. I highly value them.

 

I try not to make extra work on cleaners or other people. I will clean up a mess. Until I had to use a cane, I cleaned up my table at fast food restaurants and took the tray and garbage to the can (now I clean up as best I can but I often can't take the tray and garbage away.) I did my best to clean under the chair where my toddlers had eaten in restaurants. But there are some situations that my job is my job and it is not appropriate for me to do someone else's job.

[Bootsie]

 

 

And I absolutely think it is a load of crap that ANYONE is too valuable and highly paid to empty their trash if it is overflowing FOR WHATEVER REASON.  

 

It is not necessarily that someone is too valuable or highly paid to empty their trash.  It can simply be that it is not the priority for them at the moment.  

 

I have a very good relationship with those who clean my office space.  We have a very quick turn around between when some final exams are given and grades for graduating seniors must be turned in.  I was working ferociously to meet the deadline.  My trash can was full and overflowing.  I would have caused problems for the registrar, my dean, my department chair.... if I had stopped working on grades, gone to the dumpster to empty my trash, and hunted down another trash can liner.  At that point, my job was not to have a tidy work area, my job was to do whatever was necessary to get grades in.  I literally ran to given my next final exam.  Then,  by the time I returned to my workspace at 10:00pm, my trash had been taken care of.  I did not leave the trash because I thought I was more valuable than the cleaning staff.  I am glad that the cleaning staff did not take this as some type of statement of my opinion of them or of my character.

[KungFuPanda]

This drives me nuts. I am honestly amazed when people joke or complain about the boys and/or men in their house that still urinate outside the toilet. Really, I can understand a small child, but IMO there is no excuse for an older kid or adult that is not physically or mentally challenged. It’s sloppy, it’s rude, it’s disgusting, and definitely not something that should happen more than twice.

 

I live with two boys, my husband and son. My son is so physically challenged that he’s been in a wheelchair since the age of ten. NOBODY has peed on my floors past my son’s potty training mistakes. I don’t get it AT ALL.

[Miss Peregrine]

If I walked into my dh's office and saw his own trash piled around his trash can you bet I would think he was lazy. And if he thought he was paid too much to pick up after himself? No words.

[Scarlett]

It is not necessarily that someone is too valuable or highly paid to empty their trash.  It can simply be that it is not the priority for them at the moment.  

 

I have a very good relationship with those who clean my office space.  We have a very quick turn around between when some final exams are given and grades for graduating seniors must be turned in.  I was working ferociously to meet the deadline.  My trash can was full and overflowing.  I would have caused problems for the registrar, my dean, my department chair.... if I had stopped working on grades, gone to the dumpster to empty my trash, and hunted down another trash can liner.  At that point, my job was not to have a tidy work area, my job was to do whatever was necessary to get grades in.  I literally ran to given my next final exam.  Then,  by the time I returned to my workspace at 10:00pm, my trash had been taken care of.  I did not leave the trash because I thought I was more valuable than the cleaning staff.  I am glad that the cleaning staff did not take this as some type of statement of my opinion of them or of my character.

 

 

Of course all sorts of exceptions are going to apply.....but you really don't know what the cleaning staff thinks of you.  They certainly aren't going to tell you.  

Also, there would be a big difference to me if it was food related or bathroom related trash vs. papers overflowing.  

[bolt.]

If I walked into my dh's office and saw his own trash piled around his trash can you bet I would think he was lazy. And if he thought he was paid too much to pick up after himself? No words.

Every company that hires cleaners believes that they pay their non-custodial employees too much to pick up after themselves.

 

It's not about personal worth. It's about the business plan: they get to choose who they pay to do custodial work, they get to choose how much to pay those people. If they want to pay the regular rate for their trained personnel to clean up after themselves 'on the clock' -- they plan for that. If they want to pay a lower rate for a custodian to do it -- that's their decision.

 

In neither case is it an employee-level decision. Fiscal decisions rest with the management and/or ownership.

[KungFuPanda]

Nobody is too special to properly dispose of their own trash. The time-is-money argument is silly. If every can is constantly overflowing, then the company needs to get bigger cans or increase their cleaning budget. I wouldn’t expect office employees to handle or switch out trash bags. I would expect them to walk a few steps to a less full can before tossing trash on the ground. People way busier and more important than these guys do it and so can they. It’s juvenile and classless to throw trash on the floor or to participate in a ridiculous Trash Jenga pile on top of a can.

 

The one-time wrong-mop incident doesn’t really matter so much.

[maize]

In my husband's office white collar employees are in fact expected to take out their own trash.

 

Cleaning services are limited.

 

Employees are made aware of their responsibilities and given access to trash liners etc.

Edited December 28, 2017 by maize

[marbel]

It's been a long time since I worked in an office.  I do remember, though, that we had 2 trashcans in our cubicles:  one for recyclable paper, one for real trash such as food wrappers, etc.  There were also large cans for food-related trash in the kitchen, and large recycling cans in a couple places in the building so that if someone had an unusual amount of trash or paper recycling in a day (offices were cleaned nightly), people could dispose of it. The recycling cans didn't have liners, since they were just for paper.  I don't remember ever having to deal with my lined trashcan. 

 

This was in the mid-90s.  I would expect that now there is even more separation of trash in an office environment.  But reading this thread, it sounds as if there's not? 

 

I'm having a hard time believing that even highly-paid workers are so tied to their desks that they never get up to use the bathroom, get more coffee, refill their water bottle, etc., and thus couldn't also dispose of excess trash, except perhaps some extraordinarily busy times such as jdahlquist described.  My husband, who has been a highly-paid engineer and is now a moderately-paid IT sort of guy, agrees with my thinking on this. 

 

ETA: Oh, and we also had locked cans for confidential papers that had to be shredded. They were in the copy room... and everyone was expected to hand-carry their papers to that room and put them in the locked bins, no delegating that to cleaning staff or anyone else.

Edited December 28, 2017 by marbel

[maize]

Every company that hires cleaners believes that they pay their non-custodial employees too much to pick up after themselves.

 

 

I think it is more about having dedicated cleaning personnel being a more efficient, effective, and reliable way to maintain cleanliness. Basic division of labor, even in cases where cleaning staff and non cleaning staff have the same wages.

[marbel]

I think it is more about having dedicated cleaning personnel being a more efficient, effective, and reliable way to maintain cleanliness. Basic division of labor, even in cases where cleaning staff and non cleaning staff have the same wages.

 

I agree.  How would it even work in, say, an office environment, to not have dedicated cleaners?  Make everyone responsible for their own space, including cleaning windows and vacuuming the floor? What about shared spaces?   It would turn into "everyone's responsible to maintain cleanliness" which would quickly turn into "nobody's responsible" and a few people who liked clean toilets etc would end up doing it all.  

[8circles]

Nobody said, unless I missed it, that they were too highly paid to empty trash or that it was beneath them. What people have said is that it isn't their job - because that job actually belongs to someone else, & that they are paid to do other things.

 

I have worked as a cleaner so don't try to tell me that I think badly of or don't value people who do those jobs. I know how difficult it can sometimes be and it's also oftentimes pretty gross.

 

When I worked in an office, there were lots of things that I saw that needed attending to - toilets, floors, trash cans, etc. I could have spent a significant portion of my work day attending to those things. My employers were not hiring me to do those things. They made it clear that besides the immediate cleaning-up after oneself, they expected their office employees to do the jobs they were hired to do. IME that isn't unusual.

 

It is extremely unkind to call people lazy & stupid for a difference of perspective.

 

Scarlett has complained about the trash overflowing as if it were a regular occurrence yet insists that the trash cans are the appropriate size because - apparently - it doesn't happen often. She states that the utility room is supposed to be off-limits but expects people to use it to dispose of the overflowing trash. 

 

She is more than welcome to vent about unpleasant situations at work. It is very unpleasant to clean-up other people gross overflowing trash. 

[Miss Peregrine]

No one said, unless I missed it, that they thought people should take the trash out to the dumpster and replace their trash bag. We're talking about leaving your own trash on the floor. How about some problem solving? Smash the trash down, keep an extra bag in your desk if your company isnt providing enough services. It can't be that hard.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Miss Peregrine

[Bootsie]

Of course all sorts of exceptions are going to apply.....but you really don't know what the cleaning staff thinks of you.  They certainly aren't going to tell you.  

Also, there would be a big difference to me if it was food related or bathroom related trash vs. papers overflowing.  

You are correct, there is no way that I can know for sure what the cleaning staff, or anyone else for that matter, thinks of me.  There is also no way that then can know for sure what I think of them.  I can say that I try to treat them with respect and I experience them treating me with respect.  I do not know what the exact situation is in any particular office.  But, I can point to some situations, first-hand, where trash has been placed on the floor next to a trash can or the proper tools have not been used to clean up office messes, which had nothing to do with the people working in the office being lazy, being stupid, or thinking that they were more valuable than the cleaning staff.  

[Scarlett]

As is fairly typical in these situations I really can't tell you all every detail.... But these are not highly paid people. I probably make more than at least half of them.

 

But regardless of how important they are or how much they are paid or what the division of labor is.....I believe it is not unreasonable that people don't allow their trash cans to over flow. No it doesn't happen that often, and no we don't need bigger trash cans. The kitchen already has a 13 gallon. No one wants a bigger trash can that in the office kitchen. When it fills up with food stuff surely someone could take it out....to the bigger trash can in the utility room, literally 6 steps around the corner. Cleaning people coming in more often is not going to happen for reasons of economics.

 

And they were originally not suppose to be in the utility room..but they needed it left open so their computer equipment could live there and breath.....so it has progressed to where they store stuff in there and pilfer through my supplies.

 

They aren't bad people. I have had many conversations with them over the years. But nonetheless they annoy me to no end with what I consider to be lazy behavior.

 

And as I said calling them stupid was not kind.

[Scarlett]

No one said, unless I missed it, that they thought people should take the trash out to the dumpster and replace their trash bag. We're talking about leaving your own trash on the floor. How about some problem solving? Smash the trash down, keep an extra bag in your desk if your company isnt providing enough services. It can't be that hard.

Exactly. It is a small office and the walk to the utility room is short for all of them....and in addition to that most of the time there is an extra trash bag in the bottom of their trash can.

[Scarlett]

I agree. How would it even work in, say, an office environment, to not have dedicated cleaners? Make everyone responsible for their own space, including cleaning windows and vacuuming the floor? What about shared spaces? It would turn into "everyone's responsible to maintain cleanliness" which would quickly turn into "nobody's responsible" and a few people who liked clean toilets etc would end up doing it all.

I guess it depends on the employees you have. Some people care more about their surroundings than others.

[Scarlett]

I just asked my Dh how it is handled in his office. The cleaning lady comes every two weeks. When common area trash cans fill up,the receptionist takes it out,

 

It is a small office. 13 in their office. Most of them highly paid engineers. Well, you know, relatively speaking. ;).

 

Men and women share the bathroom. Someone pees on the floor. My Dh cleans it up because ---Dh.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Scarlett