Mean Girls in Middle School

[AnnMarie000]

I hope this is the right forum for this post!

 

We just moved and we transferred our DD to a Catholic school from her previous Catholic school. She is in 6th grade. 

She was fine in the old school. But this school has just been a nightmare from day 1. The girls in her class are brutal.

 

Here is a sampling of things that have happened...

 

1. Every. Single. Day someone "asks" her to move where she is sitting at lunch so their best friend can sit there. She will say No and they will keep asking! 

2. One day, one of the girls asked her "Did you have friends at your old school?" I guess the implication was she doesn't have anything here.

3. The gym teacher uses the old-fashioned Captain method in gym class, so she gets picks last every time.

4. The girls won't talk to her. I can't explain it but I can see at times like drop-off. It's like they form two circles (there are 9 girls in the class including my DD) and it's like she is invisible.

 

We've been at this for 8 weeks now and it's not getting better. We've talked to the school, but other than the gym class, they haven't done anything. I'm not sure what they can do...you can talk about "kindness" until you're blue in the face, but how do you make pre-teen girls not be mean to each other?

 

My thought was to pull her out and homeschool until high school. Just skip this whole middle school thing. The academics won't be an issue, she is very bright and I'm not so shabby myself. I admit, I'm terrified of the socialization aspect....I'm a real homebody and there aren't a lot of homeschooling resources in our area. 

 

Random thoughts....

 

Does this merit pulling her out?

Do I give this more time?

Even if I'm not that great at finding activities for her (I'm sure I can find a few but this isn't my strength), is it better to do your schooling in peace rather than deal with this every day?

 

Any advice welcome  :)

Edited October 28, 2017 by AnnMarie000

[Ravin]

The school needs to act or you need to pull your daughter. The passive aggressive bullying/shunning behavior is unacceptable. I would find a different academic setting were I in your shoes.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Ravin

[Tanaqui]

admit, I'm terrified of the socialization aspect....I'm a real homebody and there aren't a lot of homeschooling resources in our area.

 

Okay, but what sort of socialization is she getting now? There is no way that bullying and harassment is better than being at home, even if you DO have a hard time finding activities.

 

(And of course, activities don't have to be HS related. She can do extracurriculars, maybe there's a youth group at your church, your library or park might run classes or programs or book clubs for kids, she can hang out with her friends from her old school or on the block....)

 

I would absolutely pull her out over bullying. In fact, I didn't even let the kids go to middle school over bullying - I homeschooled specifically so they wouldn't have to. Middle school is the worst, and our zoned school is positively toxic.

[regentrude]

My DD attended ps until fall of 6th grade. We pulled her out because academics were pitiful and because the  social atmosphere was horrendous and the bullying brutal. Only after we had brought her home we found out that the rest of the class had refused to let her sit at the class lunch table for the entire 5th grade. I cannot believe that the duty teachers never noticed, but nobody mentioned anything. She got told to her face "I hate you so much" and "Dumb down a bit, you make us look stupid". She had chronic headaches and stomach aches on school days.

Had I known what was going on, I would have withdrawn her from school much earlier. Having her attend the middle school for 5th grade is the one parenting choice I regret.

 

I would not make a child endure bullying. Middle school girls can be vicious. I am very glad I decided to homeschool.

 

 

[Ravin]

Dp

Edited October 28, 2017 by Ravin

[regentrude]

As for socialization: quality over quantity. A few select activities are far better than being forced to be in an unhealthy atmosphere for eight hours every day - why would that serve as a healthy model for peer relationships?

My very extroverted DD had social opportunities through choir, riding at her barn, later dual enrollment classes, and getting together with her one best friend. The once a week homeschool park day was a very small portion of her socializing; a wealth of homeschool specific activities is not required. My DS socialized through his sports (TKD and judo) and the homeschool park day which he attended infrequently, but often enough to make some friends with whom he kept in contact for many years.

Edited October 28, 2017 by regentrude

[...................]

Well I moved schools, a LOT.  I went to Catholic for 9 years and public for 3 years.  The worst bullying happened at public school, and it was everywhere and it was awful.  The middle schools are so overcrowded that teachers and staff just do not have the time to police so many immature kids!  I am SO GLAD you are not considering public school!!

 

Now, as far as the new Catholic school, sometimes these things take a little time. Maybe give it one more month ... She may find one friend, and that may make all the difference.  I would also find out what the popular events are nearby.  A lot of girls this age take dance or gymnastics and if your dd goes to the same place, she may start to make friends there.  Another option, if she has a birthday coming up, is to throw a really cool birthday party.....and if she can observe if there is truly a kind, nice girl, a diamond in the rough that so far has just been afraid to step out, then maybe she can be friends.  However I WOULD NOT wait too long...this environment is not good for her.  I want to hug her myself! :(

 

And, I think what you have here is just a bad apple school.  Some schools have so many nice kids, and then niceness kind of goes around....and makes up for the few snobby or not-nice kids.  But what you seem to have here is an entire group of privileged, fearful, materialistic, ridiculous girls and it will probably not get any better.  Being in that toxic environment is unhealthy for your daughter, EVEN IF she were popular and included, the toxicity of these self absorbed, particularly immature narcissists would be bad for her mental health and her own heart, would shrink (the opposite of what happened to the Grinch!)  Almost all "nice" girls that do get pulled into the "popular clique" toxicity become at least a little less nice!

 

It's the parents that make the children. The last Catholic elementary school I went to had a few snobby privileged girls that teased a little but their parents were good, Christian women and when they heard about it they came down like gangbusters on their girls and the two that were actually mean stopped and the one that was being brought in got a chance to show she was truly a kind girl.  If parents are loving, involved people that love the children and discipline them the bullying/shunning doesn't get out of control like this.  Clearly the parents at your new school dont' care/too busy/ or have the same attitude.

 

Do you have any other children?  Are there any other private schools in your area?  Are there any homeschool co-ops nearby so your dd does not feel lonely once you get started?  Does she have a sport or hobby to keep her connected?

Edited October 28, 2017 by Calming Tea

[...................]

As far as you being a home body, well you’d probably have to get out there and drive her around almost every day to something. :). And you’d need to start making contact with Homeschoolers ASAP as well as looking for an activity for your dd such as karate. Karate or other martial arts always teach manners and never allow bullying, if dd sticks with it for a year she will see results and will be part of their family. Usually you get two classes a week for one reasonable fee. But again it does take some patience to see results!

 

Swimming is a good sport for her age as well, although it’s not as Family- oriented as martial arts, but she can go 4x per week so that gets her out of the house a lot.

 

Another option is American heritage Girls or Girl Scouts (Girl Scouts can be pretty liberal

But if you find a church group that’ll be toned down) but they only meet once or twice a month so you’d have to combine it with a sport and co-op.

 

I would start researching homeschool co-ops in your areas ASAP.

[AnnMarie000]

Okay, but what sort of socialization is she getting now? There is no way that bullying and harassment is better than being at home, even if you DO have a hard time finding activities.

 

(And of course, activities don't have to be HS related. She can do extracurriculars, maybe there's a youth group at your church, your library or park might run classes or programs or book clubs for kids, she can hang out with her friends from her old school or on the block....)

 

I would absolutely pull her out over bullying. In fact, I didn't even let the kids go to middle school over bullying - I homeschooled specifically so they wouldn't have to. Middle school is the worst, and our zoned school is positively toxic.

 

That's where I get stuck. If the social aspect is damaging, then homeschool HAS to be better. 

 

I can definitely come up with some activities once I commit, I just know I won't be that great at it? 

 

Yes, I remember in our old town, when I would talk to the public school moms, they all loved the elementary school and the high school. And everyone hated the middle school experience. 

Edited October 28, 2017 by AnnMarie000

[AnnMarie000]

My DD attended ps until fall of 6th grade. We pulled her out because academics were pitiful and because the  social atmosphere was horrendous and the bullying brutal. Only after we had brought her home we found out that the rest of the class had refused to let her sit at the class lunch table for the entire 5th grade. I cannot believe that the duty teachers never noticed, but nobody mentioned anything. She got told to her face "I hate you so much" and "Dumb down a bit, you make us look stupid". She had chronic headaches and stomach aches on school days.

Had I known what was going on, I would have withdrawn her from school much earlier. Having her attend the middle school for 5th grade is the one parenting choice I regret.

 

I would not make a child endure bullying. Middle school girls can be vicious. I am very glad I decided to homeschool.

 

Oh my goodness that is horrible. Personally, I believe that the on-duty staff are seeing this stuff. It's just easier for them to ignore it.

 

And of course, then I am told to talk to the main teacher, but the main teacher is rarely in the cafeteria or recess. So that's convenient.

 

I have a son who is four years older and middle school was never like this for him. He just was in his own orbit and the boys seemed to leave each other alone. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it wasn't like this with the girls

[AnnMarie000]

Well I moved schools, a LOT.  I went to Catholic for 9 years and public for 3 years.  The worst bullying happened at public school, and it was everywhere and it was awful.  The middle schools are so overcrowded that teachers and staff just do not have the time to police so many immature kids!  I am SO GLAD you are not considering public school!!

 

Now, as far as the new Catholic school, sometimes these things take a little time. Maybe give it one more month ... She may find one friend, and that may make all the difference.  I would also find out what the popular events are nearby.  A lot of girls this age take dance or gymnastics and if your dd goes to the same place, she may start to make friends there.  Another option, if she has a birthday coming up, is to throw a really cool birthday party.....and if she can observe if there is truly a kind, nice girl, a diamond in the rough that so far has just been afraid to step out, then maybe she can be friends.  However I WOULD NOT wait too long...this environment is not good for her.  I want to hug her myself! :(

 

And, I think what you have here is just a bad apple school.  Some schools have so many nice kids, and then niceness kind of goes around....and makes up for the few snobby or not-nice kids.  But what you seem to have here is an entire group of privileged, fearful, materialistic, ridiculous girls and it will probably not get any better.  Being in that toxic environment is unhealthy for your daughter, EVEN IF she were popular and included, the toxicity of these self absorbed, particularly immature narcissists would be bad for her mental health and her own heart, would shrink (the opposite of what happened to the Grinch!)  Almost all "nice" girls that do get pulled into the "popular clique" toxicity become at least a little less nice!

 

It's the parents that make the children. The last Catholic elementary school I went to had a few snobby privileged girls that teased a little but their parents were good, Christian women and when they heard about it they came down like gangbusters on their girls and the two that were actually mean stopped and the one that was being brought in got a chance to show she was truly a kind girl.  If parents are loving, involved people that love the children and discipline them the bullying/shunning doesn't get out of control like this.  Clearly the parents at your new school dont' care/too busy/ or have the same attitude.

 

Do you have any other children?  Are there any other private schools in your area?  Are there any homeschool co-ops nearby so your dd does not feel lonely once you get started?  Does she have a sport or hobby to keep her connected?

 

I agree 100%, I think this is a particularly bad apple school. I also agree that this stuff is contagious. 

 

I don't see where this gets better either unless she makes one buddy? I don't know. I guess the question is what would change the dynamic in this class. I even wonder, what can I even ask the school to do in this case? Ok, I could ask them to make a rule that you can't "ask" people to move their seats. Even if they did that, it will probably just morph into something else. 

 

I have an older son (4 years older) He is in Catholic high school and doing fine. 

 

No other private schools unfortunately. I've looked for homeschooling stuff and there just isn't a lot of anything. I think the Protestant-Christians have networks set up through their churches, but that wouldn't work for us as many of them have faith statements and I don't think we would fit in there anyway. I would be comfortable with secular groups, but I honestly don't see many. I think most people just use the public schools. No sports. She plays piano very well but that's more of a solitary pursuit. 

[AnnMarie000]

The school needs to act or you need to pull your daughter. The passive aggressive bullying/shunning behavior is unacceptable. I would find a different academic setting were I in your shoes.

 

I agree, it's unacceptable. Something has to change somewhere on this

[AnnMarie000]

Oh I also meant to say thank you so much for the thoughtful responses. I really appreciate it. These things are so hard.

[Alice]

I would pull her out for that. I hated middle school because of that kind of thing and it wasn’t even that overt. 

 

As far as socialization, what are her needs? Does she need a lot of other people around or is she happy with a small group? You will probably need to get out some and find some outlets but it will vary how much by her needs. You can also make the transition to being home more fun by making it a time for you all to really enjoy being together. It doesn’t have to be come home and then sit alone at a desk all day. Pick some activities that you can do together...learn to bake or crochet or sew or take up some kind of exercise or do art together or pick a really long novel to read aloud together. 

 

Having said all that....what does she want to do? I would take that into consideration at her age. If I still thought it was best for her to change school setting, I’d do it but if she felt really strongly that she wanted to stay in the current school I’d try and find out why and also how to help her do that. 

[Alice]

I agree 100%, I think this is a particularly bad apple school. I also agree that this stuff is contagious. 

 

I don't see where this gets better either unless she makes one buddy? I don't know. I guess the question is what would change the dynamic in this class. I even wonder, what can I even ask the school to do in this case? Ok, I could ask them to make a rule that you can't "ask" people to move their seats. Even if they did that, it will probably just morph into something else. 

 

I have an older son (4 years older) He is in Catholic high school and doing fine. 

 

No other private schools unfortunately. I've looked for homeschooling stuff and there just isn't a lot of anything. I think the Protestant-Christians have networks set up through their churches, but that wouldn't work for us as many of them have faith statements and I don't think we would fit in there anyway. I would be comfortable with secular groups, but I honestly don't see many. I think most people just use the public schools. No sports. She plays piano very well but that's more of a solitary pursuit. 

 

 

If you’re comfortable saying, you could say where you are (in general) on here. It’s likely that there is someone near you and they might have some suggestions for community. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

As far as you being a home body, well you’d probably have to get out there and drive her around almost every day to something. :). And you’d need to start making contact with Homeschoolers ASAP as well as looking for an activity for your dd such as karate. Karate or other martial arts always teach manners and never allow bullying, if dd sticks with it for a year she will see results and will be part of their family. Usually you get two classes a week for one reasonable fee. But again it does take some patience to see results!

 

Swimming is a good sport for her age as well, although it’s not as Family- oriented as martial arts, but she can go 4x per week so that gets her out of the house a lot.

 

Another option is American heritage Girls or Girl Scouts (Girl Scouts can be pretty liberal

But if you find a church group that’ll be toned down) but they only meet once or twice a month so you’d have to combine it with a sport and co-op.

 

I would start researching homeschool co-ops in your areas ASAP.

 

She has to drive her almost everyday to something?  And she has to contact homeschoolers ASAP?  Why?  Outside activities are great but they aren't necessary every day.  And I don't see any need to specifically seek out homeschoolers.  OP, is your dd an introvert or an extrovert?  My extrovert has found satisfaction and purpose and friends in sports, the Y and community outreach.  We have never done homeschool co-ops in more than 12 years of homeschooling (if you add my son who is now in college after homeschooling all the way through.)  There is nothing wrong with them (though we found that they were cliquish and interfered with our actual schooling so chose not to do them).  But they are not a necessity.  Do what works for you and your family's personality and interests and needs. 

[regentrude]

I can definitely come up with some activities once I commit, I just know I won't be that great at it? 

 

What does the bolded mean? You don't have to do activities. You only have to make sure your DD gets to the activities on time and on a regular basis. 

If you work full time that will require some organizing, but it can be done.

Edited October 28, 2017 by regentrude

[Petrichor]

She has to drive her almost everyday to something?  And she has to contact homeschoolers ASAP?  Why?  Outside activities are great but they aren't necessary every day.  And I don't see any need to specifically seek out homeschoolers.  OP, is your dd an introvert or an extrovert?  My extrovert has found satisfaction and purpose and friends in sports, the Y and community outreach.  We have never done homeschool co-ops in more than 12 years of homeschooling (if you add my son who is now in college after homeschooling all the way through.)  There is nothing wrong with them (though we found that they were cliquish and interfered with our actual schooling so chose not to do them).  But they are not a necessity.  Do what works for you and your family's personality and interests and needs. 

 

YES! 

 

You don't need to do a co-op or even an activity, though she should do something to get exercise.

 

If she wants to be social, which it sounds like she might, getting involved in karate or swimming or some other group activity might be what you need. But there are definitely options for solo exercise (jogging, hiking, solo swimming, etc.)

 

There are lots of other social opportunities besides co-ops, you might just not realize it. Library programs, rec programs, afterschool programs through the public schools, scouts/4H, programs at local museums, zoos, botanical gardens.

 

But regardless, you don't need to find something ASAP. If you decide to homeschool, don't feel like you need to leave her in school until you can find an X program or co-op.

 

But if you like everything else about the school, maybe keep her in a bit longer. It might just take her a while to make new friends here. These girls have probably known each other for a long time. Why not invite one or a couple of them over? Get to know their families too.

[regentrude]

I've looked for homeschooling stuff and there just isn't a lot of anything. I think the Protestant-Christians have networks set up through their churches, but that wouldn't work for us as many of them have faith statements and I don't think we would fit in there anyway. I would be comfortable with secular groups, but I honestly don't see many. I think most people just use the public schools. No sports. She plays piano very well but that's more of a solitary pursuit. 

 

You don't need homeschool specific activities. In our community, kids can be involved in choir, music group lessons, community theater, sports that are not run through the schools, art classes, nature programs, scouts, robotics, library programs.

This is a small town two hours from a city; if you are in a larger city or closer to a city, there are many more opportunities. Museums, science centers etc have programs.

 

You have no sports at all? No stables that offer riding lessons, fitness studios that offer kid yoga or martial arts,  no pool for swimming, no hiking group, no climbing gym?

 

You could even create your own group. 

Edited October 28, 2017 by regentrude

[wintermom]

Does your dd and do you want to homeschool?  It can be a wonderful option if you are both interested. Maybe it's a temporary situation until high school, where there are less circumstances where a child is stuck in one classroom with the same students all day.  My ds 11 and ds 13 really hated that. I think they would have been fine if only one class a day had the bully/harassers, but stuck with that same group of people daily just wore them down. 

[Wheres Toto]

What does your daughter want?  If she is good with homeschooling, does she want/need activities every day?  

 

Middle school girls are the worst so I definitely think pulling out, if your daughter is not strongly opposed, is a good idea.

 

My son doesn't feel the need to be social very much but I require some. They do Tai Kwan Do, I run a 4-H club, I teach science classes (but he only comes once a week), we do occasional isolated meet-ups.  Only the science and meet-ups are homeschool related.  Some weeks even that is too much for him.  Daily activities would make him exhausted and make it very hard to get any school done.  

[kathkath]

I would first invite one or 2 out to do something fun. Get to know them outside the group.

[73349]

You have no sports at all? No stables that offer riding lessons, fitness studios that offer kid yoga or martial arts,  no pool for swimming, no hiking group, no climbing gym?

 

You could even create your own group. 

 

If it's somewhere like my DH's hometown (which is a Rust Belt city, not rural), for real, they don't.

 

OP, you might consider how far you'd be willing to drive for the right activities and broaden your range, if there are more towns nearby--even squeezing school into four days and going a couple of hours for something on the fifth. Expect it to take a while to find a good fit, but that's better than a toxic environment.

 

I'd tell her now that you'll pull her at Christmas break if things aren't better, and to let you know if you can help (e.g., if there's one girl who seems nice and maybe we can get her contact info and see if she wants to hang out next weekend?).

 

FWIW, having taught in the middle school of a private school, it isn't even necessarily the whole school's culture here. Sometimes we'd get one cohort that was especially cliquish, or especially sweet, or especially hard-working, or in which the parents were especially unreasonable... and the next year would be completely different. By sixth grade, these people have been together a long time, and it would be hard to change them very much. It's easier when boys are being bullies, actually, because it tends to be physical, and that's easier to see and stop. A whispering campaign among the girls? Very tough. If you've met any nice moms, OP, you might try mentioning what's going on in a subtle way and see what the response is.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I would get your child to safety at once - pull her out of school to homeschool for awhile, and research options as you go. Do not leave her in this situation until you get it all figured out. You can move her to a safe place and then figure it out.

 

If you are seeing the bullying for yourself from the pickup line, and dd has told you she is being bullied, the she needs immediate help.

 

"Talk to the main teacher (and keep those tuition payments coming)" is an inadequate official response. You will have to be the hero in your child's life. Monday morning is not too soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

TRIGGER WARNING

The rest of this post comes with a TRIGGER WARNING. If anyone wants to avoid reading something very upsetting, scroll quickly down to the white space.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This thread is upsetting for me to read, because I literally just came from reading a viral Facebook post (from the Love What Matters page) about the risks of bullying. A beautiful, sweet, otherwise or formerly happy 12yo girl took her own life. She couldn't handle the bullying and shunning anymore. Her parents knew of the problem and we're working on it, but they didn't know how anguished she was, as she tried to keep coping. Her poor mother was posting Mallory's story to spread awareness, to let parents know not to wait, but to move their child to safety and get them help. I'm sorry for posting this, and wouldn't have done so if that FB post had not had hundreds of comments from parents whose children have also suffered, including parents of more children who made the same choice as Mallory. I came away thinking we are lucky if our children tell us what's going on - some don't - but once they tell us, we may need to treat it as an emergency.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you can get an improved response from the school, and that you will move your child to a safer place if you don't. Homeschooling doesn't have to be forever. It might just be respite until you find another option.

[Wheres Toto]

I would get your child to safety at once - pull her out of school to homeschool for awhile, and research options as you go. Do not leave her in this situation until you get it all figured out. You can move her to a safe place and then figure it out.

 

If you are seeing the bullying for yourself from the pickup line, and dd has told you she is being bullied, the she needs immediate help.

 

"Talk to the main teacher (and keep those tuition payments coming)" is an inadequate official response. You will have to be the hero in your child's life. Monday morning is not too soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

TRIGGER WARNING

The rest of this post comes with a TRIGGER WARNING. If anyone wants to avoid reading something very upsetting, scroll quickly down to the white space.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This thread is upsetting for me to read, because I literally just came from reading a viral Facebook post (from the Love What Matters page) about the risks of bullying. A beautiful, sweet, otherwise or formerly happy 12yo girl took her own life. She couldn't handle the bullying and shunning anymore. Her parents knew of the problem and we're working on it, but they didn't know how anguished she was, as she tried to keep coping. Her poor mother was posting Mallory's story to spread awareness, to let parents know not to wait, but to move their child to safety and get them help. I'm sorry for posting this, and wouldn't have done so if that FB post had not had hundreds of comments from parents whose children have also suffered, including parents of more children who made the same choice as Mallory. I came away thinking we are lucky if our children tell us what's going on - some don't - but once they tell us, we may need to treat it as an emergency.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you can get an improved response from the school, and that you will move your child to a safer place if you don't. Homeschooling doesn't have to be forever. It might just be respite until you find another option.

 

This (Mallory) happened in a town 5 miles from my house.  I have kids in my 4-H club and Sunday School that go to the same school.  Its awful and definitely plays into my opinion.

[Bluegoat]

It sounds like a nasty group of girls.

 

I tend to think it doesn't matter if some kids are jerks, so long as the student actually finds a few friends of her own.  If you can find your people, it becomes much easier to dismiss those other kids as just people you don't want to know, so long as they aren't being violent.  It's not actually a bad lesson.

 

I don't know that the school can do a ton more - they could possibly prevent some of the rude comments, but that isn't the problem fundamentally.  And I don't think most kids at that age want to be included because the others were forced to do it.

 

I'd be thinking about a few things:

What does your daughter think about homeschooling?

How good is the school in other ways, particularly academically?

Do you see any avenue to meet a few kids at the school, or does that seem impossible at this point?

If you plan to come back to public education later, will leaving now cause problems, and what would they be?  What if school at home didn't work out?

 

My inclination would be that if there seemed to be zero possibility of meeting friends, pull the child.  If it seems possible, give it a bit more time and think about how to facilitate that.  But I think I would advise the student and let her choose.

[AnnMarie000]

I would pull her out for that. I hated middle school because of that kind of thing and it wasn’t even that overt. 

 

As far as socialization, what are her needs? Does she need a lot of other people around or is she happy with a small group? You will probably need to get out some and find some outlets but it will vary how much by her needs. You can also make the transition to being home more fun by making it a time for you all to really enjoy being together. It doesn’t have to be come home and then sit alone at a desk all day. Pick some activities that you can do together...learn to bake or crochet or sew or take up some kind of exercise or do art together or pick a really long novel to read aloud together. 

 

Having said all that....what does she want to do? I would take that into consideration at her age. If I still thought it was best for her to change school setting, I’d do it but if she felt really strongly that she wanted to stay in the current school I’d try and find out why and also how to help her do that. 

 

Her social needs outside of the family aren't super high. She likes school though in general, so this is a tough one

 

I think she wants to be in a school, but not this one.

[AnnMarie000]

She has to drive her almost everyday to something?  And she has to contact homeschoolers ASAP?  Why?  Outside activities are great but they aren't necessary every day.  And I don't see any need to specifically seek out homeschoolers.  OP, is your dd an introvert or an extrovert?  My extrovert has found satisfaction and purpose and friends in sports, the Y and community outreach.  We have never done homeschool co-ops in more than 12 years of homeschooling (if you add my son who is now in college after homeschooling all the way through.)  There is nothing wrong with them (though we found that they were cliquish and interfered with our actual schooling so chose not to do them).  But they are not a necessity.  Do what works for you and your family's personality and interests and needs. 

 

I'd say she's the most extroverted of the introverts. :)

 

I would say she could be fine spending some days at home for sure. Getting out twice a week to something would probably be enough. We do a lot of family stuff on the weekends. 

[AnnMarie000]

YES! 

 

You don't need to do a co-op or even an activity, though she should do something to get exercise.

 

If she wants to be social, which it sounds like she might, getting involved in karate or swimming or some other group activity might be what you need. But there are definitely options for solo exercise (jogging, hiking, solo swimming, etc.)

 

There are lots of other social opportunities besides co-ops, you might just not realize it. Library programs, rec programs, afterschool programs through the public schools, scouts/4H, programs at local museums, zoos, botanical gardens.

 

But regardless, you don't need to find something ASAP. If you decide to homeschool, don't feel like you need to leave her in school until you can find an X program or co-op.

 

But if you like everything else about the school, maybe keep her in a bit longer. It might just take her a while to make new friends here. These girls have probably known each other for a long time. Why not invite one or a couple of them over? Get to know their families too.

 

Thank you. You are right. It just all feels overwhelming. If we do this, it all doesn't have to be sorted out right away. The true decision to make is do we have to pull her from this environment and what we do after that is a separate issue. It's easy to conflate the two.

[AnnMarie000]

Does your dd and do you want to homeschool?  It can be a wonderful option if you are both interested. Maybe it's a temporary situation until high school, where there are less circumstances where a child is stuck in one classroom with the same students all day.  My ds 11 and ds 13 really hated that. I think they would have been fine if only one class a day had the bully/harassers, but stuck with that same group of people daily just wore them down. 

 

I would love to do the academic part of HSing. I think we could do a much better job at home (tooting my own horn lol). I think she would enjoy the academic part as well. 

 

The social stuff is where I get stuck. It's hard when you're a "schooler" for so long...you really become dependent on that outlet every day. 

 

We would definitely go back for high school. Yes, even just the movement from class to class can make a difference.

[AnnMarie000]

What does your daughter want?  If she is good with homeschooling, does she want/need activities every day?  

 

Middle school girls are the worst so I definitely think pulling out, if your daughter is not strongly opposed, is a good idea.

 

My son doesn't feel the need to be social very much but I require some. They do Tai Kwan Do, I run a 4-H club, I teach science classes (but he only comes once a week), we do occasional isolated meet-ups.  Only the science and meet-ups are homeschool related.  Some weeks even that is too much for him.  Daily activities would make him exhausted and make it very hard to get any school done.  

 

Thank you for the reality check that middle school girls are the worst in other places as well.

 

Yeah, we definitely wouldn't need daily activities. I think twice a week to break up the week would be plenty

[AnnMarie000]

If it's somewhere like my DH's hometown (which is a Rust Belt city, not rural), for real, they don't.

 

OP, you might consider how far you'd be willing to drive for the right activities and broaden your range, if there are more towns nearby--even squeezing school into four days and going a couple of hours for something on the fifth. Expect it to take a while to find a good fit, but that's better than a toxic environment.

 

I'd tell her now that you'll pull her at Christmas break if things aren't better, and to let you know if you can help (e.g., if there's one girl who seems nice and maybe we can get her contact info and see if she wants to hang out next weekend?).

 

FWIW, having taught in the middle school of a private school, it isn't even necessarily the whole school's culture here. Sometimes we'd get one cohort that was especially cliquish, or especially sweet, or especially hard-working, or in which the parents were especially unreasonable... and the next year would be completely different. By sixth grade, these people have been together a long time, and it would be hard to change them very much. It's easier when boys are being bullies, actually, because it tends to be physical, and that's easier to see and stop. A whispering campaign among the girls? Very tough. If you've met any nice moms, OP, you might try mentioning what's going on in a subtle way and see what the response is.

 

I don't think I was clear, there are sports, but she doesn't play any. There is a Y and stuff, so lots of activity opportunities. 

 

I was thinking that about December. I am paid up for half of the year, which would take me through until January. 

 

Thank you for sharing your experience from your own teaching. I agree, I think this can be so variable year-by-year, group by group. And honestly, as you can probably tell already, I'm not even blaming the school that much for this. We've talked to the teacher and principal and I do believe they are doing what they can. 

[AnnMarie000]

I would get your child to safety at once - pull her out of school to homeschool for awhile, and research options as you go. Do not leave her in this situation until you get it all figured out. You can move her to a safe place and then figure it out.

 

If you are seeing the bullying for yourself from the pickup line, and dd has told you she is being bullied, the she needs immediate help.

 

"Talk to the main teacher (and keep those tuition payments coming)" is an inadequate official response. You will have to be the hero in your child's life. Monday morning is not too soon.

I hope you can get an improved response from the school, and that you will move your child to a safer place if you don't. Homeschooling doesn't have to be forever. It might just be respite until you find another option.

 

Thank you for your comment. I agree, the decision can't be made on just whether or not I can create a perfect homeschool environment. Luckily, I don't work outside the home right now and we have the time and resources to homeschool. Will it be perfect? Probably not. But that's not the question right now. 

 

(I deleted the rest of your post in the response as I saw the trigger warning and didn't want to re-quote it)...but yes, this is exactly what is on my mind! You see these stories all of the time. The parents always say, I didn't know it was THAT bad.

 

Which makes one wonder, what is the point where a parent says, enough, we're out. I mean, if I'm waiting for an engraved invitation to homeschool, it's not going to happen. Nor is there going to be an official alarm clock that goes off and says, time to do something here Mom! All of this stuff is just a big blob of grey. And let's be real, school officials are often just engaged in covering themselves.

[AnnMarie000]

It sounds like a nasty group of girls.

 

I tend to think it doesn't matter if some kids are jerks, so long as the student actually finds a few friends of her own.  If you can find your people, it becomes much easier to dismiss those other kids as just people you don't want to know, so long as they aren't being violent.  It's not actually a bad lesson.

 

I don't know that the school can do a ton more - they could possibly prevent some of the rude comments, but that isn't the problem fundamentally.  And I don't think most kids at that age want to be included because the others were forced to do it.

 

I'd be thinking about a few things:

What does your daughter think about homeschooling?

How good is the school in other ways, particularly academically?

Do you see any avenue to meet a few kids at the school, or does that seem impossible at this point?

If you plan to come back to public education later, will leaving now cause problems, and what would they be?  What if school at home didn't work out?

 

My inclination would be that if there seemed to be zero possibility of meeting friends, pull the child.  If it seems possible, give it a bit more time and think about how to facilitate that.  But I think I would advise the student and let her choose.

 

It's a small Catholic school. I think what I would do is just homeschool for the rest of 6th, 7th, and 8th. Then do the normal application process for Catholic or private high school for 9th.

 

The school is ok academically. Not great. I could do a better job at home. My daughter is open to homeschooling. She really is a kid that marches to the beat of her own drum, which I love about her

[Sandwalker]

I pulled my daughter out of middle school for bullying. She had been homeschooled for grades 1-3, then to a good public elementary. Then sixth grade. :/

 

The girls in middle school were brutal. Dd is thin, and they called her anorexia girl, put notes in her locker with pictures of starving kids, etc. Dd was chewing her nails off and had stomach aches.

 

One day my daughter retorted, "Well if you weren't so fat, maybe my size wouldn't bother you so much." The other girl told the teacher, and we all had to come in for a conference, where they implied my daughter was a bully, and wanted her to apologize to the girl. Ds began to, and I stopped her.

 

I asked the principal when my daughter would be getting apologized to for being called anorexic and skeleton, etc by this same girl and her group, which I had reported numerous times to this very principal. I had brought the notes and pictures with me, and laid them on the desk.

 

The principal told me that since thin was considered acceptable in our society and fat was not, that they were two different things.

 

I pulled her out that day, and wrote a long letter to the board of education.

 

Dd is now 28 and still thin, but has not had any eating disorders. (Sad that I have to actually say that.)

[...................]

I didn’t mean she needed to join a co op immediately but that I would start making

Connections immediately!

 

Also I am part of numerous homeschool groups that were faith based and NONE of tnem shunned Catholics in any way!!! ... most Protestants consider Catholics under the umbrella of orthodox Christianity.

 

I am not saying you have to go somewhere every day but I am saying that may become your life. It does require a lot of planning and a lot

Of forethought and some reaching out. If you have neighborhood friends she can play with then

One or two weekly activities is certainly enough!! But, if the neighborhood kids are persona non grata and her brother is busy I doubt 3 hours out of the entire week will be sufficient.

 

HOWEVER i agree with everyone else that I would NOT wait too long!! Better for her to be home and a little bored than getting depressed!!!

 

How are the public schools where you live?

 

And what does your dd think of homeschooling?

[...................]

I pulled my daughter out of middle school for bullying. She had been homeschooled for grades 1-3, then to a good public elementary. Then sixth grade. :/

 

The girls in middle school were brutal. Dd is thin, and they called her anorexia girl, put notes in her locker with pictures of starving kids, etc. Dd was chewing her nails off and had stomach aches.

 

One day my daughter retorted, "Well if you weren't so fat, maybe my size wouldn't bother you so much." The other girl told the teacher, and we all had to come in for a conference, where they implied my daughter was a bully, and wanted her to apologize to the girl. Ds began to, and I stopped her.

 

I asked the principal when my daughter would be getting apologized to for being called anorexic and skeleton, etc by this same girl and her group, which I had reported numerous times to this very principal. I had brought the notes and pictures with me, and laid them on the desk.

 

The principal told me that since thin was considered acceptable in our society and fat was not, that they were two different things.

 

I pulled her out that day, and wrote a long letter to the board of education.

 

Dd is now 28 and still thin, but has not had any eating disorders. (Sad that I have to actually say that.)

Just 😢ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜¡ðŸ˜¡ðŸ˜¡

[AnnMarie000]

Just wanted to thank everyone again from the bottom of my heart

 

I have my steps in order now thanks to this conversation.

 

First, I need to first figure out if this school is safe for her to return to. Period. If there is any risk of damage, it just comes off the table. It's not an option anymore.

 

If we pull her, (after taking a breather), then I will come up with a homeschooling plan

 

I think I am getting overwhelmed right now trying to think about these two issues at the same time. 

 

I will come back and update and let you all know what happened. Again, sincere thanks 

[Alte Veste Academy]

I can't find the thread, but I remember someone once took a poll asking us all which period we would choose to homeschool if we had to choose between elementary, middle, and high school. The vast majority of us said middle school. It's a weird time. Awkward most of the time. Kids are trying to form identities and, sadly, much of that has to do with pecking order when kids are surrounded by peers too much. All of my kids' friends are public/charter schooled, and the stories I've heard even from these well-adjusted kids... Blech. 

 

I would pull her out if she is at all amenable to that. I would not give her more time. I would take away the stress and homeschool through 8th with the plan to put her in high school when it is time. Then I would get her help planning your curriculum, maybe designing a personalized course or two using 8filltheheart's process as described in her truly wonderful Homeschooling at the Helm resource. 

 

I don't know what her particular interests are besides piano, and I don't know how to make that social, but I also don't think I would worry at all about socializing for a while. I think if she's been surrounded by such bitterness, she needs some decompression time to let any potential wall she has up crumble a little. It's hard to imagine that she isn't in a place where she has to examine other kids' words and deeds through a lens of scrutiny. She might need to relax solo for a while to get to a point where she doesn't feel like she has to analyze other kids' true motives and meaning.

 

I have one who is also "the most extroverted of the introverts." She is in 7th grade this year and has withdrawn somewhat into herself and the family more. I see her working out who she is. She is trying on different roles. She is an artist, and I literally see her self-portraits changing. It is so so so interesting! Mostly because she feels 100% in charge of her definition of herself. I think that's harder in school. You don't want your daughter's definition of herself to be formed by other girls' rejection of her, you know? And that is what is happening now, whether it feels that way or not. 

 

Social things do not have to be typical either. We volunteer with a cat rescue. My dd attends local art classes and is on a competitive swim team... There are all sorts of outlets for socializing. And I actually think that the less time kids spend with age peers during the middle years—more time volunteering with younger kids or older adults, more time working side by side with a mentor—the better. The exception to this would be if a kid can find a "soul-mate" friend, someone who shares the same values and interests and brings them up, someone supportive who expects the best of them. My DD is lucky to have two such friends who happen to live down the street. She met them by chance a few years ago at our neighborhood park, a serendipitous meeting I'll be forever grateful for.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't look at this as running away from middle school because of bullying. I would look at this as a fantastic opportunity to give your DD some breathing room to build a strong foundation for her self-image that will carry her into high school much stronger than she will be if she stayed in that environment for two and a half more years. 

 

 

[Bluegoat]

It's a small Catholic school. I think what I would do is just homeschool for the rest of 6th, 7th, and 8th. Then do the normal application process for Catholic or private high school for 9th.

 

The school is ok academically. Not great. I could do a better job at home. My daughter is open to homeschooling. She really is a kid that marches to the beat of her own drum, which I love about her

 

In that case, I really wouldn't hesitate.  Maybe stay in until Christmas just to feel like it's been a good effort, and give you a few weeks to get organized.

 

If you can organize a good LA component and math for the second half of this year, and read lots of good books on other topics, you are probably just fine for this year even if that's as far as you get.  

[Bluegoat]

There really are so many possibilities for social stuff.  I like to try and find things close, so my kids can potentially walk, and also meet kids nearby.  One thing to keep in mind is that many kids do want a close friend, and being ale to arrange to meet up without depending too much on parents makes a huge difference IMO.  The further away the activity is, the further away the kids are likely to live.

 

But we've done a little group sports here and there, an occasional art class, circus, Guiding (like Scouts,).  There are some school subjects it is nice to do with a group at times - languages are a good example.

 

If she's serious about music, you could look at some group things.  My dd12 is serious about piano, but she plats violin more casually.  It's through the school, but there are also several ensembles through other organizations.  She also used to sing in the children's choir at our church and is now in the adult choir, and really loves it even though she is the youngest by about 10 years.  Music is the kind of thing that can really come alive with a group.

[Jame]

I understand about being unsure of the socializing part and living somewhere where there's isn't much going on for homeschoolers. I live in a very, very rural area and it was difficult for us to find places to meet up with other kids. A homeschool mom just started a group this year and all the hsers have been coming out to get together. We use FB and email as a way to discuss ideas about what kind of field trips to do. We have kids ranging in age from 4k-high school age. It's wonderful. Maybe you could start FB homeschool page and reach out to people? The person who started the group put together the schedule and she's not obligated to come to every gathering; it's pretty laid back. 

 

I've been hsing my son all the way except for 1st grade. His dad wanted him to try public school for a year to see how he did. It was awful! So much bullying going on in 1st grade; it really surprised and saddened me. I do believe it would be a good idea to pull her out; as someone else stated, what kind of socializing is she getting right now? 

 

 

[Sandwalker]

If you want to pull her out soon, remember she will need some time to decompress (do they still say deschooling?) so you'll have time to plan the rest of her school year.

[snowbeltmom]

If you want to pull her out soon, remember she will need some time to decompress (do they still say deschooling?) so you'll have time to plan the rest of her school year.

 

:iagree: If you decide to homeschool, I would pull your daughter out of the school as soon as you make the decision to homeschool.  Your daughter can spend her days reading until you get a curriculum plan ironed-out. 

 

[Tanaqui]

The middle schools are so overcrowded that teachers and staff just do not have the time to police so many immature kids!  I am SO GLAD you are not considering public school!!

 

Okay, I feel I need to interject that there are many students who go to public middle school and are just fine. Not every middle school is overcrowded, plenty of kids are happy. It's not "public or private" that determines how good or bad the social experience is. (Though being overcrowded certainly doesn't help, if that's the case!)

 

Though I'm sure the OP has really good reasons for not considering public school for her kid, and she knows her situation better than we do.

 

I was thinking that about December. I am paid up for half of the year, which would take me through until January.

 

I'm thinking that you've already spent your money. It's gone. You really want to waste your time as well?

[Ausmumof3]

Yes pull her out. These kind of scenarios rarely improve and can be pretty soul destroying. You may be able to relaunch her successfully in a different school environment but I'd homeschool for a while and look for confidence building social situations/activities.

 

If you are new to homeschooling, the well trained mind is a really great guide to getting launched toward a really good academic education.

[fralala]

My sister had the experience of switching schools in 7th grade-- to a K-8 school where all the other kids had basically been together since K.

 

She still won't even really talk about it. She also took up self-harming behaviors, some of which she is still working on breaking years later.

 

I say bring your daughter home, and just try to enjoy the person your daughter is for a little while with the knowledge (and I am getting a little sappy and tearful here) that every day in a toxic environment without just one friend or ally robs her of a bit of that self.

 

Sometimes small, close-knit schools that appear to be the best choice from the outside are actually the most oppressive to the new kid or the outsider. And you know what, maybe if you pull her she will see one or two of the girls in an outside activity, and the dynamic will change, but I think it's a dynamic that's very difficult to alter with any level of parental meddling. And that kind of meddling can sometimes lead a bullied kid to feel like the parent isn't really on their team and doesn't understand the magnitude of the problem.

 

Good luck.

[scoutingmom]

Nm

Edited October 29, 2017 by scoutingmom

[fairfarmhand]

You won’t be the first to homeschpol because of middle school girls.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OneStepAtATime]

You said in the OP that there are only 9 girls in your daughter's class.  That's it.  The cliques have been formed and your daughter really doesn't stand a chance.  It's not like a group of 30 where the outliers can kind of band up.  

 

I hope that everything resolves well and your daughter recovers.

This. 

 

I mean there is a possibility, if you are willing OP to invite those girls over a few times and perhaps a couple of girls at a time or something, for the relationship to improve but in all likelihood the cliques are set, the lead bullies have the control and your DD will not be allowed to join in.  There is a good chance this will get much worse, in fact.  Right now they are feeling things out.  They aren't sure how far they can push it.

 

You are new here so you probably never saw it but a while ago someone started a thread asking about adult posters and if anyone here had experienced bullying in school.  The responses were stunning and heartbreaking.  A very large number had, and the experience had left lasting emotional scars for many.  For some they still have PTSD.

 

I am not anti brick and mortar school, by the way.  My kids were both in brick and mortar schools for several years and while ultimately we ended up homeschooling they did have some great teachers and great friends.  But we did not homeschool Middle School.  I attended Public school and mostly did well.  I had some great experiences.  The only time I ever really got into physical fights (trying to defend other girls that were being bullied) or experienced bullying myself of any real significance was in Middle School.  While I had some great teachers in Middle School and I had some great friends, honestly there was a lot of bullying (and frankly drug use, too).

 

One of DD's close friends from elementary school (she didn't start homeschooling until 7th) had done very well in elementary.  Lots of friends.  Straight A student.  When she went on to attend the local Middle School many of her friends from elementary went with her.  And you know what?  They turned against her.  And got others to do the same.  It started out with just some minor insults and kept escalating.  She ended up eating her lunches in bathroom stalls to stay away from them.  Her whole world changed.  It was a nightmare.  She ended up homeschooling from 7th grade on.  

 

My point with the above is that Middle School really can be a tough time and once a student is labeled as someone to bully it can be very hard to shift the dynamic.  I'm not saying impossible.  Just really hard.  The risk is that she isn't telling you everything and there may be more damage happening subconsciously than she is aware of consciously and certainly there is also the risk of escalation and the potential permanent psychological damage that can occur with long term exposure to bullying.

 

I know you are worried about socialization and I will not dismiss your concerns out of hand.  I have two children I homeschool and one would have been better off staying in a more constant social setting than what I have been able to provide.  However, my other child has thrived.  Why?  Because she has been able to find friends through her areas of interest and found she had a lot more time to pursue those areas of interest as a homeschooler.  If your child has any special interests, one thing you could absolutely do is help her nurture those as a homeschooler.  If she likes art, for instance, find some local group art classes where she can hang out with like minded kids (they don't have to be homeschoolers).  Maybe your community has a local pre-teen/teen theater group or science club or book club. 

 

Also, DD has found friends and teachers she has become friends with over the years through on-line classes.  Again, these were in areas of interest.  For instance, she has taken several Art History classes with one teacher and the students tend to follow the time line progression with that same teacher so she sees many of the same students each semester.  They communicate in class but also outside of class.  They have gotten to know each other over time. 

 

In other words, there are perhaps more options than you are aware of for social interaction.  Expand where you are looking and keep an open mind. 

 

Also, I did want to mention that not all groups that have a SOF will be a bad fit.  They may allow people to join in a limited capacity and not sign the SOF.  If there are many other homeschoolers who have done so you might find like minded parents and kids that you could schedule things with, such as field trips, etc.  If it doesn't work out, you can drop the membership but until you try them out you won't really know if they are a bad fit or not.

 

And  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

Edited October 29, 2017 by OneStepAtATime