I need math advice too...

[SparklyUnicorn]

for my math hater.  I think I've tried everything I can, but he hates math and every day it's like dragging an elephant through mud.  *sigh*

 

 

[KeriJ]

nm. Wrong age.😊

Edited October 25, 2017 by KeriJ

[HomeAgain]

What have you tried?  And what doesn't he like about math?  And how old is he?

[Arcadia]

My younger boy would rather play than do anything. I tell him that if he doesn’t pick something and stick with it, I do the picking and he just have to get it done. He ended up picking all the outsourced math classes and I just have to sit next to him and redirect and check that he submits his assignments. Math before meals work for this kid because he wants to eat but isn’t hungry. Math after meals work for my older boy because he is too hungry to do work.

 

DS11 is currently procrastinating on his assignments while sprawled on the carpet :lol: This kid likes shared misery so not being in classes won’t work for him. He needs to know other kids are suffering through the same homework as him.

[SparklyUnicorn]

He is 12.  Currently I'm using Lial Algebra (loosely...I wing it for the most part).  I've tried so many things over the years.  Singapore, Saxon, MUS, MM, various "fun" books, video games...winging it...

 

He does fine.  He doesn't seem to have trouble getting the concepts, but man he hates math so much.  It's weird. 

 

I try to do math first thing.  So that's always after breakfast.  So it shouldn't be a matter of hunger.  But he zones out...and does anything BUT pay attention.  He doesn't do this with any other subject. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Hmmm...would it help if it was on-line and not tied to you?  You and your other son are both math lovers and are currently working hard at outsourced math classes.  Maybe it is kind of intimidating working with you on a subject that he finds incredibly boring and you have actually sought to continue as an adult just for fun? 

 

Maybe something self-paced but with some structure would work?  You could supplement with something on the side if you felt it wasn't deep enough.

 

Ideas: Thinkwell, CTC, Derek Owens

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Also, if he seems to be understanding the material maybe he is bored because he doesn't need the amount of review he is currently doing?  Could you make the lessons really short?  Does he seem to do better with mastery or spiral?

[Kiara.I]

He is 12. Currently I'm using Lial Algebra (loosely...I wing it for the most part). I've tried so many things over the years. Singapore, Saxon, MUS, MM, various "fun" books, video games...winging it...

 

He does fine. He doesn't seem to have trouble getting the concepts, but man he hates math so much. It's weird.

 

I try to do math first thing. So that's always after breakfast. So it shouldn't be a matter of hunger. But he zones out...and does anything BUT pay attention. He doesn't do this with any other subject.

Have you tried moving it to the last thing in the day? I hear it sometimes works well.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have tried doing it last.  That was worse.

 

I offered on-line and he completely rejected that idea.

 

I don't give him a ton of problems so I don't think I'm boring him with stuff that is too easy. 

 

FWIW, DH hated math as a kid and went on to get a degree in electrical engineering.  I hated math as a kid and am now taking math classes for fun.  So I don't necessarily worry, but working with him is kinda wearing on me because he does not cooperate.  I'd almost think he had a problem with paying attention (like ADD or ADHD) because it is THAT bad.  BUTTTT....he only does this with math.  Nothing else...ever.

[OneStepAtATime]

That sounds incredibly frustrating.  Hmmm.....

 

Outside once a week tutor that assigns work for the rest of the week?

 

Have you directly brain stormed with him on what he thinks the reason is for his issues with this subject?

[mom31257]

Have you tried spreading the lesson throughout the day so that he only does a few problems before he gets to do something else? Or would that be even worse because he has to do a little all day long? 

 

What about having him do it standing up at like a kitchen island instead of sitting? What about doing the problems on a dry erase board? Would these ideas help him stay focused? 

 

I might would even try a reward system for staying focused and getting it done in a certain timeframe. 

 

 

[Arcadia]

I'd almost think he had a problem with paying attention (like ADD or ADHD) because it is THAT bad. BUTTTT....he only does this with math. Nothing else...ever.

Algebra chapters were the ones my kids find boring and drag their feet on those topics. Doing geometry with algebra was what worked for DS11. He doesn’t like precalculus either but he likes the trigonometry portions enough to not drag his feet so much. This kid is aiming for mechanical/aeronautical engineering so we’ll see how it goes.

[Tanaqui]

I offered on-line and he completely rejected that idea.

 

If you think it'll work then it might be worth it to exercise your parental prerogative here and say "We're gonna try it for two months, and if you don't like it THEN you can opt out. Not before."

 

But if you're like me, you probably limit how much you use that!

 

[scrapbabe]

My 12 year old boy is like that. We do math together, that helps. Some days I have to send him off to do it alone, but generally I sit side by side and we do it together.

[PeterPan]

You could try a little caffeine before the math and see if it makes a difference. Might tighten his attention a touch. 

 

There's a sense in which, what does it matter if he doens't like it? He's learning, yes? His scores are fine, yes? It's a pain in the butt for him for whatever reason. Is it a pain in the butt for you to teach him?

 

I don't know, you can go in circles, but you can't make everything great. Some things just suck. If he's learning, not having a disability, has supports appropriate to his issues, and is a pain in the butt to teach, outsource him. Some ADHD kids really like herd effect. Send him somewhere. Or put him to videos, irrespective of his opinion. Nothing says you have to take being his voodoo doll as he whines through math. I don't even know if he whines. I'm just saying it's ok to make some arbitrary limits, stop the pain. Let him antagonize someone else.

 

Adding: The worst part is when you feel trapped. Like if you LIKE working with him and the whole ropes and elephants through mud gig, that's fine. But if you're only doing it because you feel trapped or like you can't, well then just be frank and draw a line and say you treat me bad I dump you to Demme, end of discussion. He's just about adult age and he can make some choices.

Edited October 26, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Another Lynn]

Does he like competition?  What if you race each other on every problem?  If nothing else it might get it over with more quickly.   :laugh:

[Tenaj]

I have two (so far) that hate math.  Both of them prefered not to do their math first thing in the morning.  One liked to do it right after lunch, one likes to do it in the hour before lunch.  I second the idea of a bit of caffeine during the math lesson -  ice tea was our choice here and it did help. 

 

I've tried lots of different curriculum and methods with both of them and with both of them I basically ended up giving them the "Suck it up, buttercup - math is here to stay" speech when they hit the 12 -13 year old stage - LOL!  I help them but ignore all the drama.  Both of them got over it pretty fast after that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Does he like competition?  What if you race each other on every problem?  If nothing else it might get it over with more quickly.   :laugh:

 

No he hates that.

 

He will do stuff for prizes.  So I might try that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

You could try a little caffeine before the math and see if it makes a difference. Might tighten his attention a touch. 

 

There's a sense in which, what does it matter if he doens't like it? He's learning, yes? His scores are fine, yes? It's a pain in the butt for him for whatever reason. Is it a pain in the butt for you to teach him?

 

I don't know, you can go in circles, but you can't make everything great. Some things just suck. If he's learning, not having a disability, has supports appropriate to his issues, and is a pain in the butt to teach, outsource him. Some ADHD kids really like herd effect. Send him somewhere. Or put him to videos, irrespective of his opinion. Nothing says you have to take being his voodoo doll as he whines through math. I don't even know if he whines. I'm just saying it's ok to make some arbitrary limits, stop the pain. Let him antagonize someone else.

 

Adding: The worst part is when you feel trapped. Like if you LIKE working with him and the whole ropes and elephants through mud gig, that's fine. But if you're only doing it because you feel trapped or like you can't, well then just be frank and draw a line and say you treat me bad I dump you to Demme, end of discussion. He's just about adult age and he can make some choices.

 

You think 12 is about adult age?  Hmmm

 

I'd get super nasty except I don't think that'll make it better.  And the thing is he is very cooperative otherwise.  VERY.  He's a pleaser.  He's my kid I never have to remind to brush his teeth or anything.  But there is just something about math. 

 

I don't care if he loves math or not, but I just wish he'd not be dragging his feet SO DANG MUCH. 

 

I hated math at his age.  And I can't think of what would have made me like it better.  I can't even tell you why I hated it either.  I offer myself no insight.  LOL 

[HomeAgain]

Well, at his age, I see it as two separate problems:

 

Disliking math - this is a lot more in his control than yours, and I suspect his habits aren't helping him get over it or deal with it efficiently.

 

Poor habits - this one you can do something about.  Since he likes prizes, I'd put math right before something he really, really likes - whether it's free time or a subject or an activity.  Give him the parameters (you have this long to do this much work if you want to do this next) and then go about your day.  If he gets his butt in gear, great!  He does the next thing.  If not, sorry, he gives it up. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, at his age, I see it as two separate problems:

 

Disliking math - this is a lot more in his control than yours, and I suspect his habits aren't helping him get over it or deal with it efficiently.

 

Poor habits - this one you can do something about.  Since he likes prizes, I'd put math right before something he really, really likes - whether it's free time or a subject or an activity.  Give him the parameters (you have this long to do this much work if you want to do this next) and then go about your day.  If he gets his butt in gear, great!  He does the next thing.  If not, sorry, he gives it up. 

 

What poor habits? 

 

He has no poor habits associated with this.  That's the thing.  I think he does try to please me, but he just hates it so much for some reason that he has a tough time getting through it. 

 

He doesn't like school in general, but I don't have this problem with any other subject.  He just does the other stuff and gets through it without incident.  But math?  Geesh...it's just so weird. 

[deerforest]

Have you tried swinging to a living math approach at all? Even at the algebra level, we still play games, read books, use manipulatives.

 

Some ideas that we've used:

- Math videos from Danica McKellar and Vi Hart

- Math documentaries 

- Algebra from Great Courses Plus

- Algebra Pizzazz 

- Education Unboxed and Crewton Ramone both have ideas for rods for algebra

- Algebra tiles and blocks

- Books like: Family Math (middle school and algebraic thinking), Real of Algebra (Asimov), Danica McKellar's books,  Math Magic, 

- Games (Suduko, Equate, dice games)

[Arcadia]

He doesn't like school in general, but I don't have this problem with any other subject. He just does the other stuff and gets through it without incident. But math? Geesh...it's just so weird.

Is it because math is time consuming? My DS12 can “speed through†math most of the time so he complains about music practice because he can’t speed through that. DS11 had to spend more time on math after starting prealgebra compared to the SM days so he whined about how long it takes.

 

Also it could just be that some kids need something to complain about and it happened to be Math for your younger son. My DS11 can complain about anything under the sun while DS12 is picky even about complaining and generally complains about fictional writing which is what he is weak at.

[Pen]

Lay out what you need from him minimum to feel ok about teaching him and like the elephant is making its own efforts to walk.  And if he can do that, fine, you'll keep working with him. If not then he will have to _____  (go with outsourced or whatever).  Also lay out what would make working with him actually pleasant (cheerfulness, effort, attention, whatever it would be) beyond the bare minimum and offer a reward if he can do that--maybe little daily rewards if he does it for even a day, and bigger end of week reward for each full week that he does (make the things be within his control of outer behavior and cooperation, not something like loving math).

[fralala]

Have you tried swinging to a living math approach at all? Even at the algebra level, we still play games, read books, use manipulatives.

 

Some ideas that we've used:

- Math videos from Danica McKellar and Vi Hart

- Math documentaries 

- Algebra from Great Courses Plus

- Algebra Pizzazz 

- Education Unboxed and Crewton Ramone both have ideas for rods for algebra

- Algebra tiles and blocks

- Books like: Family Math (middle school and algebraic thinking), Real of Algebra (Asimov), Danica McKellar's books,  Math Magic, 

- Games (Suduko, Equate, dice games)

 

To this great list, I might add Jo Boaler's resources at youcubed.

 

OTOH, reading your responses and appreciating your own love of math, what you might need is just being able to let it know and trust that this isn't your (or his) failure. Maybe more than anything these responses can help you see, Hey, I did that, and that, and that, and I see a little of that in your recognition that it took awhile for you and your husband to come around to math...sometimes when I'm having conversations with my math teacher sister, and other teachers and adults who have come to math late in life with a new creativity and enthusiasm we didn't possess as kids, I do question whether that math-phobia that we all hope to bypass in our own kids (or students) isn't quite as destructive as one might think, and whether math is just one of those subjects it takes a great deal of freedom and maturity and life experience for some of us to truly appreciate?

 

So one absolutely legitimate path is, suck it up, buttercup/you'll thank me one day, but another is to print out the "relaxed math" thread, hand it to your son, and say, okay, honestly? I want to do something where your brain is creating or maintaining those beautiful mathematical pathways daily. Can you x out everything in this list you'd absolutely despise and highlight anything that looks like it might possibly be less than totally soul-destroying?

 

Also, I'm sure you've done this, but it's always helpful around here to make it clear (not just in words but in general attitude, which means sometimes I absolutely have to hide in the bathroom and take deep breaths) to my mom-pleasing kid that it will NOT destroy me, disappoint me, hurt my feelings, or fill me with a deep and abiding sense of loss and sorrow if she loathes something, even if it is something that I find beautiful and life-enriching. In fact, it will truly interest me and give me some insight into her brain if she can describe to me clearly why it's so horrible to her. (Plus, talking about math articulately, even critically = math.)

[wintermom]

He is 12.  Currently I'm using Lial Algebra (loosely...I wing it for the most part).  I've tried so many things over the years.  Singapore, Saxon, MUS, MM, various "fun" books, video games...winging it...

 

He does fine.  He doesn't seem to have trouble getting the concepts, but man he hates math so much.  It's weird. 

 

I try to do math first thing.  So that's always after breakfast.  So it shouldn't be a matter of hunger.  But he zones out...and does anything BUT pay attention.  He doesn't do this with any other subject. 

 

I would pick a math program that you and he can live with and continue going through it, with the goal of keeping the basic concepts fresh in his mind, and keeping his confidence high, but not trying to push quickly ahead into really challenging material. 

 

Wait patiently for a change of interest in math, as it may well come as long as he hasn't been completely turned off the subject. Even if a change in interest doesn't happen, you've still laid the groundwork for him to be prepared for any future career he chooses.

 

As fun as math games sound TO ME because I enjoy playing around with math, it may not be realistic to assume a child will enjoy them. You can certainly try some games, though. Who knows what might click?

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would pick a math program that you and he can live with and continue going through it, with the goal of keeping the basic concepts fresh in his mind, and keeping his confidence high, but not trying to push quickly ahead into really challenging material. 

 

Wait patiently for a change of interest in math, as it may well come as long as he hasn't been completely turned off the subject. Even if a change in interest doesn't happen, you've still laid the groundwork for him to be prepared for any future career he chooses.

 

As fun as math games sound TO ME because I enjoy playing around with math, it may not be realistic to assume a child will enjoy them. You can certainly try some games, though. Who knows what might click?

 

Well yeah that's what I've done over the years, but it's been SO PAINFUL.  I haven't pushed at all.  The pace has been slower than molasses.  He works so few problems because if I gave him any more there would be no time left in the day to do anything else.  What should take a few minutes takes him 2 hours.  Not because he doesn't get it, but because he won't even look at it.  Sometimes he doodles on the paper and just covers the entire paper with drawings.  He bounces around, hems and haws, and sometimes even forgets that he was supposed to be doing math.  No joke.  I have to redirect...redirect....remind...say ok now let's do this problem...ok...come on now you have to get through this within this century.  And when desperate...yell.  Which also does not work.

 

It's just insane.  And I'd say well, it's some sort of discipline problem except he absolutely doesn't operate like this with any other subject ever.  And it is not like he doesn't get it.  It's not too hard and not too easy. 

 

I've done games with him and he likes games.  I hate the games.  This is all about helping him.  Problem is, I have run out of ideas.  There aren't games for every math everything.  At least none that I know of.  And games take even longer! 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Is it because math is time consuming? My DS12 can “speed through†math most of the time so he complains about music practice because he can’t speed through that. DS11 had to spend more time on math after starting prealgebra compared to the SM days so he whined about how long it takes.

 

Also it could just be that some kids need something to complain about and it happened to be Math for your younger son. My DS11 can complain about anything under the sun while DS12 is picky even about complaining and generally complains about fictional writing which is what he is weak at.

 

It is only time consuming because he won't do it. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

When I said we've tried several things over the years, I did not mean we never finished anything.  We did.  Most of it.  But getting through was just lousy.  Very very difficult.  Obviously he is still SOMEHOW learning because he can manage to do the new material once he finally stops with the antics.  I just wish I could find some way to make it go a little more smoothly.  I almost wish I could not do math with him.  Obviously that is not an option and I'd never do that, but it's just PAINFUL.  I don't get it.

 

I don't care if he likes math.  Not trying to make him like it or love it.  I just want him to get through it without it being so ridiculous. 

 

Outsourcing is not an option.  I am 99% certain it wouldn't make a difference if someone else did math with him.  Except they wouldn't be able to sit there FOREVER like I do. 

 

Thing with the games is it often does not feel like real math is actually taking place.  Or when you get to the part where you are practicing the skill it would be equivalent to doing 2 problems total.  That's just not enough.  So there is a lot of fluffer nutter in between with games.  And, again, there aren't games for every concept.  And making "me" do games is dragging an elephant through mud cuz I hate the math games.  They are so much work for so little pay off. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I guess I'm just venting.  I know there is no magical answer.  *sigh* 

[Arcadia]

It is only time consuming because he won't do it.

At his age, he should be able to tell you why he is wasting time only with math.

 

My DS12 says food makes work better but he is also in the growth spurt stage. He does his work for any subject faster while snacking on Brie cheese.

 

Dragging math daily doesn’t make sense even for a math hater unless he has nothing to do with his free time and is just dragging math out to see how long he can drag out a math session. My DS11 works better with a timer for every subject or he drags it out. For my DS11 it is not a subject thing but a no sense of time thing.

 

I help my kids with Chinese homework. I tell them I am helping for 30mins daily. Then I walk away to do some housework. It helped prevent procrastination. Even if I have nothing better to do, I get bored waiting so I have to give them a time limit. Their Chinese tutor isn’t going to go into that much extra time anyway.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Arcadia

[SparklyUnicorn]

At his age, he should be able to tell you why he is wasting time only with math.

 

My DS12 says food makes work better but he is also in the growth spurt stage. He does his work for any subject faster while snacking on Brie cheese.

 

Dragging math daily doesn’t make sense even for a math hater unless he has nothing to do with his free time and is just dragging math out to see how long he can drag out a math session. My DS11 works better with a timer for every subject or he drags it out. For my DS11 it is not a subject thing but a no sense of time thing.

 

I help my kids with Chinese homework. I tell them I am helping for 30mins daily. Then I walk away to do some housework. It helped prevent procrastination. Even if I have nothing better to do, I get bored waiting so I have to give them a time limit. Their Chinese tutor isn’t going to go into that much extra time anyway.

 

I have asked him, but he has no answer for me. 

 

I get not dragging things out, but if I give him 4 problems and he isn't done in an hour, what am I supposed to do?  Ya know?  If I've mentioned a time constraint he FLIPS OUT even if it is ridiculously generous.  He'll ask me 50 times how much time he has left, while again, not actually doing anything.

 

It's quite bizarre. 

 

I pride myself over figuring difficult situations out because I always do, but this one has me very stumped. 

 

Food cannot be the issue.  We do math after breakfast.  If I don't do math first, no math will be happening at all.  I've tried other times and it's even worse (which I know is hard to imagine). 

 

To give an example of something he loved doing....when we were practicing multiplication facts I found a big blow up ball that had facts on them and I'd toss the ball back and forth outside and each time you catch the ball you recite the math problem and answer that your right hand was on.  He really loved that.  But this sort of thing does not lend itself well to every type of math concept. 

[Arcadia]

To give an example of something he loved doing....when we were practicing multiplication facts I found a big blow up ball that had facts on them and I'd toss the ball back and forth outside and each time you catch the ball you recite the math problem and answer that your right hand was on. He really loved that. But this sort of thing does not lend itself well to every type of math concept.

Does he enjoy moving while doing math? My DS11 moves his legs while doing math. He used to walk around the house with his Singapore math textbook or workbook with a pencil and just do his work walking. My guess is he swings his legs quietly under the table during ACT, SAT and AP exam because he did well enough. My DS12 twirls his hair’s fringe so it gets all curly from his fidgeting.

 

If it’s the games aspect rather than the movement aspect, then that’s going to be tough.

 

We use a timer app for DS11 so he can see time left himself.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I allow him full movement.  I have an elliptical, trampoline, and a Robi Max that he can get on (and he does).  I also bought stuff for him to fiddle with and chew on. 

 

I tried a timer too. He had a meltdown over the pressure of the timer.  Even though there was plenty of time. 

 

I tried a white board.  He can sit at a table, desk, on the floor, on the couch, on his bed..Wherever he wants.  Outside..... 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I would try an outside tutor.  I know you don't think it would change anything but it honestly just might.  Sometimes kids do better with an outside influence, not because you are a poor teacher (which you aren't) but because (especially pre-teens and teens) sometimes kids just suddenly come alive in areas of struggle if the dynamic is shifted and they have someone else involved.  It wouldn't have to be daily.  Try once a week.  If it doesn't work out, stop using the tutor.  If it does, that could really improve the situation.  It doesn't have to be forever, either.  Maybe once your son reaches a certain point in his development he will do fine without an outside tutor.

 

I have mentioned this on other threads but DS and I were going through math in a very slow slog.  Every lesson was exhausting and driving us both crazy.  It took soooooo looooooonnnnnnnggggg to get through so little.   We hired a tutor this year.  I still do lessons with him on the days he does not meet with his tutor but having the tutor involved has really changed the dynamic.  DS pointed out to me that once we involved an outside tutor for math he was covering 3 times the amount of math he had been covering before.  Having someone else involved really got him moving.  He can't really explain why.  It just did.  We are both a lot happier.

Edited October 29, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't want to spend the money on it quite frankly. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't want to spend the money on it quite frankly. 

 

I worded it this way rather than say I don't have the money.  If I stopped taking my one class per semester, I could spend it on tutoring but it's the only thing I have for myself.  So it's probably selfish, but I think it's ok to be selfish sometimes. 

 

Last standardized test he took he scored in the 99th percentile.  So I'm not dealing with an issue of him not getting math.  He just isn't cooperating for some reason.

[Saddlemomma]

Since he's doing Algebra, have you looked at Mr. D. Math?

 

My DD is also a passionate math hater from Kindergarten. She's always done well in math, but as a concrete thinker, Algebra (using CLE) totally flummoxed her last year.  I made the decision to have her repeat Algebra this year moving to an online option.  I felt I needed to remove myself from the equation.

 

After researching many options, I decided to go with Mr. D because of so many reviewers stating that it greatly helped those who had math anxiety or hated math (DD has both).  So far, it's been a great decision. I've heard no complaints (which is a miracle in itself), and DD states the videos really break things down and explain a concept in several different ways.

 

Now, keep in mind, DD has already gone through most of Algebra I with CLE, albeit she didn't quite finish, and she didn't get it towards the end, so I don't know if she's just breezing through what she already knows and will falter with the more difficult stuff later.  However, if she does falter, Mr. D. offers two online "help" sessions each week, plus you can email Mr. D at anytime.

 

BTW: we do the self-paced option.  We paid $197, but each successive class we take through Mr. D will be $97.  They offer math classes through Pre-Calc w/Trig.

[fralala]

I worded it this way rather than say I don't have the money.  If I stopped taking my one class per semester, I could spend it on tutoring but it's the only thing I have for myself.  So it's probably selfish, but I think it's ok to be selfish sometimes. 

 

Last standardized test he took he scored in the 99th percentile.  So I'm not dealing with an issue of him not getting math.  He just isn't cooperating for some reason.

 

I don't think this is selfish, at least not in the bad sense.

 

Do you think there is a connection between the 2 things you mentioned in bold?

 

What's the worst that could happen if you did just stop doing all formal math for a month or two? (Including playing games. There are enough 1 player math games out there to have on your shelves without having to drag yourself through the mud.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't think this is selfish, at least not in the bad sense.

 

Do you think there is a connection between the 2 things you mentioned in bold?

 

What's the worst that could happen if you did just stop doing all formal math for a month or two? (Including playing games. There are enough 1 player math games out there to have on your shelves without having to drag yourself through the mud.)

 

I do not think there is a connection between the 2 things I mentioned.

 

What one player math games are there out there that go beyond the basics? 

[mommyoffive]

Have you tried swinging to a living math approach at all? Even at the algebra level, we still play games, read books, use manipulatives.

 

Some ideas that we've used:

- Math videos from Danica McKellar and Vi Hart

- Math documentaries 

- Algebra from Great Courses Plus

- Algebra Pizzazz 

- Education Unboxed and Crewton Ramone both have ideas for rods for algebra

- Algebra tiles and blocks

- Books like: Family Math (middle school and algebraic thinking), Real of Algebra (Asimov), Danica McKellar's books,  Math Magic, 

- Games (Suduko, Equate, dice games)

 

Wow, Thank you!

[wintermom]

 

Last standardized test he took he scored in the 99th percentile.  So I'm not dealing with an issue of him not getting math.  He just isn't cooperating for some reason.

 

So it looks like he's understanding concepts and is able to apply them and "perform" for test situations. You may want to consider trying some of these math contests from the University of Waterloo (Canada). Each grade level contest has 3 levels of difficulty (part A, B and C). Parts A and B are covered in regular math curriculum, and part C are really challenging. 

 

My boys love doing the archived contests for fun and variety. We actually write the contests themselves each year just for the experience. We don't spend time working on how to do the part C problems unless they ask. Art of Problem Solving would be my go-to resource to find more about these kinds of problems.

 

Here's the link:  http://www.cemc.uwaterloo.ca/contests/past_contests.html

[SparklyUnicorn]

So it looks like he's understanding concepts and is able to apply them and "perform" for test situations. You may want to consider trying some of these math contests from the University of Waterloo (Canada). Each grade level contest has 3 levels of difficulty (part A, B and C). Parts A and B are covered in regular math curriculum, and part C are really challenging. 

 

My boys love doing the archived contests for fun and variety. We actually write the contests themselves each year just for the experience. We don't spend time working on how to do the part C problems unless they ask. Art of Problem Solving would be my go-to resource to find more about these kinds of problems.

 

Here's the link:  http://www.cemc.uwaterloo.ca/contests/past_contests.html

 

Yeah, along these lines I think I'd like to find something to peak his interest.  Not sure he'd want to do anything competitive, but I think he would be interested in something that is just "different".  I try to come up with interesting ways to ask questions and he perks up with that.  Problem is, I am not particularly good at that stuff.  I kind of prefer a more dry presentation (so does my other kid).  And I don't really have the confidence to stray too far from that because I worry about him getting all the info he'll need.  KWIM?

[Arcadia]

Yeah, along these lines I think I'd like to find something to peak his interest. Not sure he'd want to do anything competitive, but I think he would be interested in something that is just "different". I try to come up with interesting ways to ask questions and he perks up with that.

How about stop book work for awhile and let him do Alcumus every day? You could set Alcumus to the books so you could set it to give problems from prealgebra and intro to algebra only. When he hit some problems he can’t solve easily, he might be more willing to learn his algebra.

 

It would also solve the someone (something) other than mom telling him that he has more to learn.

[SparklyUnicorn]

How about stop book work for awhile and let him do Alcumus every day? You could set Alcumus to the books so you could set it to give problems from prealgebra and intro to algebra only. When he hit some problems he can’t solve easily, he might be more willing to learn his algebra.

 

It would also solve the someone (something) other than mom telling him that he has more to learn.

 

I'll give that a try!

[daijobu]

What if you took away his pencil (so no doodling) and scribed for him as he described how to solve a problem.  Sit next to him and solve the problem with him step by step, hopefully with him doing most of the thinking, and you redirecting him if get distracted.  

 

While normally I would say this would be appropriate for a younger student, I'm not particularly ideological about anything except making sure learning gets done.  I wonder if that might help?  

[Pistachio mom]

Some personalities like a definite beginning and definite ending. When we homeschool moms use a few resources to create a great course, it can be harder for our students to know how far they need to be by Christmas so that they can finish the course by May. One of my children talked to me about this: for a subject she dislikes (math and science) , she wants to just use a good college prep level book and get it done.

 

If you son is ahead of math on a high school schedule. He may enjoy switching to a totally different type of math. Math with Fred has some interesting titles for Jr. High level. One goes along with science concepts and another with economics. Even a consumer math or science applications of math as a break from the algebra might be worth considering. I have never used the Fred books because the few I reviewed did  not explain concepts well enough for my children.  For one of my friends, the Fred books helped them survive math. Since you have an older student and you yourself are in a math course, you would be very prepared to fill in a gap. You could always hit algebra again next year or next semester.

 

For my oldest who really does not like math , we do it early to get it out of the way. This does not work for all of my children, but for my oldest it does. For a younger student - not high school, maybe he could earn a "day off" of math by getting a specific amount done the other 4 days.

 

Best wishes as you think, read ideas, and just brainstorm for how to motivate your son. The investment of energy and care is truly well worth it!

[MotherGoose]

Well yeah that's what I've done over the years, but it's been SO PAINFUL. I haven't pushed at all. The pace has been slower than molasses. He works so few problems because if I gave him any more there would be no time left in the day to do anything else. What should take a few minutes takes him 2 hours. Not because he doesn't get it, but because he won't even look at it. Sometimes he doodles on the paper and just covers the entire paper with drawings. He bounces around, hems and haws, and sometimes even forgets that he was supposed to be doing math. No joke. I have to redirect...redirect....remind...say ok now let's do this problem...ok...come on now you have to get through this within this century. And when desperate...yell. Which also does not work.

 

It's just insane. And I'd say well, it's some sort of discipline problem except he absolutely doesn't operate like this with any other subject ever. And it is not like he doesn't get it. It's not too hard and not too easy.

 

I've done games with him and he likes games. I hate the games. This is all about helping him. Problem is, I have run out of ideas. There aren't games for every math everything. At least none that I know of. And games take even longer!

Maybe it's time for some discipline? Maybe give him time parameters and say he has to get it done by a certain time or X happens, or tell him you will give him x amount of time and then he has to finish the rest on his own before he gets any free time. I have no patience for dawdling but I'm mean like that. :)

[SparklyUnicorn]

Maybe it's time for some discipline? Maybe give him time parameters and say he has to get it done by a certain time or X happens, or tell him you will give him x amount of time and then he has to finish the rest on his own before he gets any free time. I have no patience for dawdling but I'm mean like that. :)

 

doesn't make him move

 

I've sent him to his room.  He'll just get flustered and shut down.

 

Other than that, what kind if discipline?  I don't want him to hate math more by punishing him on top of punishing him because obviously he thinks math is a punishment already.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Some personalities like a definite beginning and definite ending. When we homeschool moms use a few resources to create a great course, it can be harder for our students to know how far they need to be by Christmas so that they can finish the course by May. One of my children talked to me about this: for a subject she dislikes (math and science) , she wants to just use a good college prep level book and get it done.

 

If you son is ahead of math on a high school schedule. He may enjoy switching to a totally different type of math. Math with Fred has some interesting titles for Jr. High level. One goes along with science concepts and another with economics. Even a consumer math or science applications of math as a break from the algebra might be worth considering. I have never used the Fred books because the few I reviewed did  not explain concepts well enough for my children.  For one of my friends, the Fred books helped them survive math. Since you have an older student and you yourself are in a math course, you would be very prepared to fill in a gap. You could always hit algebra again next year or next semester.

 

For my oldest who really does not like math , we do it early to get it out of the way. This does not work for all of my children, but for my oldest it does. For a younger student - not high school, maybe he could earn a "day off" of math by getting a specific amount done the other 4 days.

 

Best wishes as you think, read ideas, and just brainstorm for how to motivate your son. The investment of energy and care is truly well worth it!

 

We only school four days a week.  And we have gone through some of the Fred books.

 

I dunno.  I guess I just have to deal with it.  Maybe someone needs to offer ME an incentive to keep going.  LOL  Apparently I need it.