Teen Driving Question

[rutamattatt]

Our DS15 recently got his driver's permit as have several of his friends.

 

The other day, I asked another mother if she could give my DS a ride to practice.   DS told me today that his friend (with his driver's permit) drove them to practice.  The mom rode along, of course.  Practice is about 30 minutes away and they took a major four lane highway to get there.   According to my son, the mom was yelling and correcting his friend and "freaking out" when they were on the highway.   (Keep in mind, that is a 15 year old describing the situation.)

 

This friend has had his permit for a few months.  I know he has done a decent amount of driving, and he is a good kid who would take the responsibility seriously.  But I was kind of surprised the mom would have her son drive with my son in the car and not ask me.  I'm not angry or anything.  It just struck me...odd.  I won't let my son drive to practices when we are taking other teen friends along.  

 

Am I being weird?  (A distinct possibility...)

 

 

[klmama]

IMHO, she should have asked if you would be okay with it, but many people wouldn't think a thing of it.

 

 

[regentrude]

I would not allow my child to ride with a permit driver, and I would not have allowed them to transport passengers while on a permit. That is irresponsible and I would address this. Is it even legal in your state?

Edited October 4, 2017 by regentrude

[EKS]

I would never have my teenage son (15yo with learner's permit) drive with someone else's kid in the car.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by EKS

[Miss Mousie]

Absolutely not a weird reaction.  It is illegal in my state - even for a *licensed* teen driver - to have non-relative passengers (for the first year, I think).  I definitely would have freaked out!  I probably wouldn't say anything to the mom, but I'd tell son never to do that, and I'd never ask that mom for transport again!

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

Definitely not a weird reaction.  I actually would have been angry, our closest major highway that everyone takes to get just about everywhere has had a fatal accident a month for the past few months in the stretch right near me.

 

It's not legal in my state for a permit driver to have non-related passengers.  Even that is limited - my oldest couldn't drive both her younger siblings around when she had her permit, only one a time.

'

[Selkie]

Not weird at all. That was irresponsible of the other mom and I wouldn't trust her judgment from now on.

[Okra]

I would not let a permit driver drive other people's kids around either.

[Scarlett]

I will be odd person out and say I would not be bothered.  

 

I do have an adult friend that I don't let drive my kids around.  

[Scarlett]

Definitely not a weird reaction.  I actually would have been angry, our closest major highway that everyone takes to get just about everywhere has had a fatal accident a month for the past few months in the stretch right near me.

 

It's not legal in my state for a permit driver to have non-related passengers.  Even that is limited - my oldest couldn't drive both her younger siblings around when she had her permit, only one a time.

'

 

 

I know all states are different....but in OK the law says nothing about who can be in the car with a permit driver except a licenced driver 21 and older has to be front seat passenger.  After they get their actual license it is a graduated plan where for the first 6 months they can only have one under age passenger unless they are siblings.  And they can't drive after 10 or before 5 a.m..

[Wheres Toto]

I know all states are different....but in OK the law says nothing about who can be in the car with a permit driver except a licenced driver 21 and older has to be front seat passenger.  After they get their actual license it is a graduated plan where for the first 6 months they can only have one under age passenger unless they are siblings.  And they can't drive after 10 or before 5 a.m..

 

In NJ with a permit:

 

• Display a reflectorized decal on each license plate (front/back); decals available at motor vehicle agencies, $4 per pair
• No driving after 11:01 p.m. and before 5:00 a.m.
• You must be accompanied in the front seat by an adult supervising driver who is at least 21 years of age and who possesses a valid New Jersey driver license and has a minimum of three years driving experience
• Parent(s), guardian(s) or dependent(s) are allowed as passengers. A dependent is a permit or probationary driver's child, not siblings
• Only one additional passenger is allowed unless accompanied by a parent or guardian
• You can't use cell phones, hand held video games or any other hands-free interactive, wireless communication device
• Seat belts must be worn at all times
• See GDL Exemptions for hours-related exemptions for employment or religious reasons
•  

[Scarlett]

 

In NJ with a permit:

 

• Display a reflectorized decal on each license plate (front/back); decals available at motor vehicle agencies, $4 per pair
• No driving after 11:01 p.m. and before 5:00 a.m.
• You must be accompanied in the front seat by an adult supervising driver who is at least 21 years of age and who possesses a valid New Jersey driver license and has a minimum of three years driving experience
• Parent(s), guardian(s) or dependent(s) are allowed as passengers. A dependent is a permit or probationary driver's child, not siblings
• Only one additional passenger is allowed unless accompanied by a parent or guardian
• You can't use cell phones, hand held video games or any other hands-free interactive, wireless communication device
• Seat belts must be worn at all times
• See GDL Exemptions for hours-related exemptions for employment or religious reasons
•  

 

 

 

I read the above about 10 times and can't make sense of it....A dependent can't be a sibling....but can be if accompanied by a parent...so as long as your parent is the over 21 licensed driver you can have your siblings with you.

[Wheres Toto]

I read the above about 10 times and can't make sense of it....A dependent can't be a sibling....but can be if accompanied by a parent...so as long as your parent is the over 21 licensed driver you can have your siblings with you.

 

Pretty much.  My oldest could only drive around both her siblings if I or dh was also in the car.   If she was with any other over 21 adult licensed driver, she could only drive one of her siblings under the "one other passenger" rule.

 

I think the original intention was to keep a young inexperienced driver from having a car loaded with friends goofing around.   There were a lot of fatal accidents with that scenario happening around here for a while.

[Scarlett]

Pretty much.  My oldest could only drive around both her siblings if I or dh was also in the car.   If she was with any other over 21 adult licensed driver, she could only drive one of her siblings under the "one other passenger" rule.

 

I think the original intention was to keep a young inexperienced driver from having a car loaded with friends goofing around.   There were a lot of fatal accidents with that scenario happening around here for a while.

 

 

Right. Same here, except it doesn't apply to the permited driver...on the phase one of graduated driving where they can drive alone/without a licensed driver. 

[StephanieZ]

I read the above about 10 times and can't make sense of it....A dependent can't be a sibling....but can be if accompanied by a parent...so as long as your parent is the over 21 licensed driver you can have your siblings with you.

 

I think it means . . . 

 

If you have a 21+ year old NON-parent/guardian in the passenger seat, you can't have your siblings in the back. *UNLESS* in the back seat(s), you ALSO have your parent/guardian . . . in which case they can also have their own kids (your siblings). 

 

If you have your OWN parent/guardian in the passenger seat, you CAN have your siblings in the bac.

 

One "spare" unrelated passenger is allowed. BUT, if your parent/guardian is in the car . . . you can have as many other passengers as you like.

 

(OR MAYBE they mean that you can have as many passengers as you want, so long as each is accompanied by a parent/guardian of their own. But, that makes no sense at all, lol, so presumably, that's not the rule. Then again, many laws make no sense at all . . .)

 

I've had 2 kids through these sorts of restrictions already, and #3 will be there very soon, and I still have to look this shit up and try to figure it out . . . It's all very confusing. I try to keep it simple by just not having my permit-holding kids drive under any questionable circumstances. They only drive with a parent in the passenger seat +/- more family in the back seats. 

[regentrude]

My answer really just depends on the law in the state.

 

My oldest got her license two days after DS4 was born.  The whole time I was pregnant, any time we had to go somewhere, I had hear drive, specifically to get her hours of practice in.  So, I had my pregnant self, my then 2yr old and then 4yr old.  And I just don't see much difference between that and a single teen passenger with a parent in the car.  So I probably would have done it.  If it was actually against the law, I wouldn't have just cause I can't afford the ticket if we get pulled over lol

 

I think the situation is entirely different because you chose to have your own children in the car with you with a permit driver. You, as your children's guardian, gave consent to have your children driven by a permit driver.

 

In the OP's situation, the minor passenger was not the supervising parent's child, and the supervising parent did not have the passenger's parent's consent to let him be driven by a permit driver.

 

Making decisions for your own children and making decisions for another parent's child is not the same thing.

[Scarlett]

I think the situation is entirely different because you chose to have your own children in the car with you with a permit driver. You, as your children's guardian, gave consent to have your children driven by a permit driver.

 

In the OP's situation, the minor passenger was not the supervising parent's child, and the supervising parent did not have the passenger's parent's consent to let him be driven by a permit driver.

 

Making decisions for your own children and making decisions for another parent's child is not the same thing.

 

 

When I send my child off with another adult I am already trusting that adult to make all sorts of decisions in caring for my child.  I guess if I trusted the adult enough to send my kid with her I would trust her judgment as to whether her permited child is compentent enough to drive.  

[regentrude]

When I send my child off with another adult I am already trusting that adult to make all sorts of decisions in caring for my child.  I guess if I trusted the adult enough to send my kid with her I would trust her judgment as to whether her permited child is compentent enough to drive.  

 

I would see it as evidence of  a lack of judgment if she thought this was OK without running it by me.

If the thought did not occur to her that another parent might object to their kid riding with a driver who is still in training and has not passed the driving test, I would question that person's judgment.

[2_girls_mommy]

It has happened here too. A mom didn't ask me. I didn't make a deal of it, but was careful after that about knowing where they were going and who was driving so that I was at least aware of what was going on. 

[Rebel Yell]

I can think of one family I would have been comfortable having my teen as a passenger with their child driving with a permit an parent supervising, but that parent wouldn't t have been screaming at their child which is why I'd be OK with it, LOL!

 

Super-short, frequent (to permit driver) trip, such as 15 mins away to church? Sure. Also, if they had already had way over their 65 supervised hours (in my state) and were just waiting until their 6mos were up to test? Probably.

 

But I would always expect to be informed by the other parent, AND my child knows they have the responsibility to refuse to ride (or check with me) in that situation.

 

SweetChild has been licensed for 16mos in addition to her 6mos w permit. I still texted BabyBaby's friends mom to make sure it was OK for SweetChild to drive them to youth group. Friends were 14, SweetChild had graduated so friends mom might not have been expecting her to be their driver.

[bettyandbob]

I would have told the mom asking that my ds was working on his driving permit hours and would be the one driving.

[regentrude]

My DD8 has a best friend up the road.  From the time I learned where her friend lived, I would let her go up to his house "unsupervised."  Meaning, I didn't walk her there, I didn't drive her there, I didn't watch her out the door to his house, etc etc.  The house is about a block and a half, around the corner.  A total of like 6 or 7 houses away, but does require crossing at least one street.

 

However, his parents NEVER let him walk here.  Usually they drove him.  It's only just this most recent time that they have let him walk....but even then, they follow him to the corner and watch him to my door.

 

But, they also don't let my DD walk by herself.  I mean, if I send her there, I generally don't even let them know that she's on her way, and the mom will text me when DD arrives.  However, when it's time to come home, they walk her here...every single time.  If it's raining they will drive her.  Every single time.  Which means that they are basically making the choice for my child that she is incapable of walking 6 or 7 houses around a corner, crossing one street, by herself, at age 8, going on 9.  

 

Their behavior makes perfect sense because they would be held liable  if anything happened to your DD, if they let her walk.

Again, it is quite a different decision to make for a stranger's child than for your own.

I have let my own children do things I deemed them capable off that I would not dream allowing a stranger's child who is in my care and for whose well being I am held responsible. Most definitely not in this sue happy society.

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

I would see it as evidence of  a lack of judgment if she thought this was OK without running it by me.

If the thought did not occur to her that another parent might object to their kid riding with a driver who is still in training and has not passed the driving test, I would question that person's judgment.

 

 

To each his own I guess.  

[mom@shiloh]

I wouldn't be ok with it, and in fact many of my friends don't allow their kids to be passengers for several months even after the teen has their license.  Our kids are only allowed to drive with a parent for the first month or so of their learner's permit.  After that, they can drive the family, but I'd only allow an extra passenger with a parent's permission and only AFTER I felt very confident in my kid's driving.  

[SKL]

Well I dunno, but when I was in drivers' ed, we had several teens in the car and all took turns driving.  I drove on the freeway for the very first time with other (possibly frightened) teens in the car.  I know that some of my friends were not allowed to drive their parents' cars at all until after they passed drivers' ed.  Drivers' ed required everyone to drive on the road 6x iirc and we did not have simulators to practice on.  :P

 

I also drove with only my teen siblings in the car (while still on a permit) as long as one of my sibs had a license.  I drove to college daily this way - about 12 miles and most of it freeway.  Summer and winter.

 

So I guess the situation in the OP would not bother me, especially given that the driver had some experience.

 

Now if it's against the local law, that would concern me - I'm not big on parents breaking laws with kids in the car.

[KarenC]

I would be very unhappy.  My kids don't ride with any driver under 18.  I don't care how good of a driver or kid they are.  They simply are not experienced enough to drive my child.

[SKL]

I guess from the other parent's perspective, if I'm asking them to let my kid drive with them and their kid in the car, how can I not be OK with their kid driving with my kid in the car - especially given that their kid has a lot more driving experience?  It seems to say my kid's safety is way more important than their kid's safety.  Plus all this in the context of me asking them a favor.

[whitestavern]

I'd be pretty ticked off. In CT, my licensed daughter (not permit) can't even drive her brother anywhere for at least six months; anyone else is at least a year. I'm surprised any responsible adult would think that was okay.

[Scarlett]

I'd be pretty ticked off. In CT, my licensed daughter (not permit) can't even drive her brother anywhere for at least six months; anyone else is at least a year. I'm surprised any responsible adult would think that was okay.

 

 

Wait.  Are you saying you would be ticked off because of the law?  OP didn't indicate the law was broken.  I agree a responsible adult obeys the law.  But it would be legal in my state.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I would have been angry and I would have let her know ASAP, totally unacceptable IMO.  I wouldn't ride with a permit driver on a 4 lane if he/she still requires being "yelled" at, let alone let my children ride with them.

[skimomma]

I would have been angry as well.  My dd will be getting her permit soon and I would most definitely ask permission before allowing her to drive with another kid in my car.  Actually, I will not have her drive while still on permit if I have anyone else's child in my car so it is a moot point.  Many of her friends are currently permitted, we carpool a lot, and this has never come up so I suspect the other parents I know feel the same.  

 

Dd has to ask before riding with a fully-licensed teen.  I have allowed it at every request thus far as the drivers involved are kids I trust and have witnessed driving but she does still have to ask each time.

[OrganicJen]

I actually think where we live kids that age aren't allowed to drive with other kids in the car, even if an adult is in the car too...the passengers have to all be adults.  I think what they did would be against the law here.  I would be bothered by that too, I don't think it's just you.  

[AppleGreen]

Uh, no. But we only let our permitted teen driver drive with one of the parentals. We won't even let said driver drive with a sibling in the car. 

[QueenCat]

She should have INFORMED you as to who would be driving. Then you could decide whether to have your child go or make other arrangements. But no, she didn't need to ask you, just inform.

[GailV]

I read the above about 10 times and can't make sense of it....A dependent can't be a sibling....but can be if accompanied by a parent...so as long as your parent is the over 21 licensed driver you can have your siblings with you.

 

I assumed that had to do with permit drivers who are older and have dependents (or, I suppose, younger and have children themselves, or are responsible for other family members for some reason). 

 

For example, a friend who was a 30 year old Somalian refugee was trying to get his U.S. driver's license (among other things), so had his learner's permit.  Had that law been in effect here, he couldn't be hauling around siblings and then claim that it was okay because they were his dependents.  He COULD have his child along.  (Moot point since the rest of his family other than his little boy were missing in refugee camps, but goes to show that all sorts of people are permit drivers, not just teens.)

[Rebel Yell]

I would be very unhappy.  My kids don't ride with any driver under 18.  I don't care how good of a driver or kid they are.  They simply are not experienced enough to drive my child.

Not arguing with you, just pointing out that not every 18+ person has had their license very long. In my state, no learners permit until the 16th birthday (I was STUNNED that it's 14 in some states!) and then 6month wait AND minimum of 65 supervised diving hours. But an 18yo can get their permit and test whenever they feel ready, no minimum wait or practice hours.

 

Sooooo my point is, a 17yo in some states could have had their permit and license for over 4 years, while a 19yo could have gotten their license yesterday and only have been driving for two weeks.

 

So we go more by how long they've been driving and how much we trust the person in general. SweetChild's BF drove her to Prom downtown on major freeways about 10 days after passing his test (but had his permit for over a year, with VERY conscientious parents) and there are some adults/parents I wouldn't want my kids to ride with.

[whitestavern]

Wait.  Are you saying you would be ticked off because of the law?  OP didn't indicate the law was broken.  I agree a responsible adult obeys the law.  But it would be legal in my state.

 

I would've been angry regardless of the law. I would've wanted a heads up from the mom, in which case I would've likely said no thank you. I would not dream of doing that with someone else's kid!