Colleges listed on resume, omitted the top university?Tech resume

[Janeway]

My husband got an email stating that with tech careers, it is best to omit jobs from prior to 2000 and remove dates from degrees if it is before 2000. It has to do with ageism in tech.  https://thecoffeelicious.com/your-y2k-bug-remove-every-year-before-2000-on-your-resume-668d0b94b49a

 

 

My husband's first university was a big name, top 10 university. But his degree was not technical there. Later, after working a couple years, he went back to school at a low tier school (which I think it trying to get to tier 1, but is not) and got his computer science degree.  

 

I feel like he perhaps should have left the first college on there just because, well, the name of the school kind of makes his resume stand out. He says it does not matter. Maybe he is right.

[regentrude]

Depends on the job field. If the original degree is relevant for the job, leave it on. If the original degree is irrelevant for his career, it only raises the question why he did not complete the comp sci degree at a comparable caliber institution.

An English degree form harvard won't make a comp sci degree from XY state college any more valuable.

Edited April 13, 2017 by regentrude

[Carol in Cal.]

I see Regentrude's point, but I think tech is shifting a bit.  Being well-rounded is more valued now.  My inclination would be to include both, but as you mentioned, without dates.  

 

BTW, re. the dates, when my husband was out of work, he got NO responses to his resume until I helped him rewrite it with some of his earliest experience omitted.  Coincidence?  I don't think so.  Ageism is alive and well, particularly in tech.

[Janeway]

Depends on the job field. If the original degree is relevant for the job, leave it on. If the original degree is irrelevant for his career, it only raises the question why he did not complete the comp sci degree at a comparable caliber institution.

An English degree form harvard won't make a comp sci degree from XY state college any more valuable.

It was location.  Since he went there straight out of high school, moving to a new place for college made sense. Later, he was already working and in a career and got the computer science degree from a much lower university that was near him. He did not relocate again or quit his career to do the second degree.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Janeway

[Carol in Cal.]

Math is a STEM field that is extremely helpful in computer programming.  

He should definitely mention it.

Getting a higher degree while working is also an accomplishment that shows a great work ethic, and is respected.  See if there is a way to demonstrate that in the resume.

[Mimm]

I agree with leaving it on without the dates.

 

ETA: But I'm hardly an expert, that's just my uninformed opinion. :)

Edited April 13, 2017 by Mimm

[catz]

I would definitely leave it on and just leave dates off.

[Hyacinth]

 

There's no one-size-fits-all perfect answer to this. But I would leave it in and remove the dates (knowing that recruiters recognize this tactic for what it is--an attempt to hide age.)

[footballmom]

I recruit for IT and non-IT pt and if it was my spouse, I would encourage him to list both universities / degrees and omit the dates.  Depending on what level job he is going for, he will have to decide if he wants to include all of his experience or only after X date.  If he's going for a Director level or above, he should include most if not all his experience even if it was before X date.  JMHO

[Mergath]

If he's applying for actual tech jobs, most companies (well, the ones with half a brain) are going to care more about his experience and skillset than where he got an undergrad degree forever ago. Some tech companies will even (quietly) scoff at computer science degrees because they find a lot of graduates from them have theoretical knowledge but their practical skills aren't great. I'm good friends with the mom of a guy who got rich founding a couple of tech companies in NYC that do stuff for Fortune 500 companies, and he doesn't even look at the degrees (or lack thereof). He wants to know if you have the skills and know the appropriate coding languages to do the work. That's it. My friend's thirteen year old son has a standing job offer with him once he gets his coding skills to a high enough level.

 

I think it would make the most sense to tailor his resume to the company, though. If he's applying for a middle management position at a company that's been around for thirty years and does financial tech stuff for old rich people, leave it on. If he's applying for a coding position at a hot, up-and-coming company, play up his skills and experience and leave off the stuff that ages him. You could always go to a place like the Stack Exchange forums and try to get more targeted info, too. The people that hang around their tech forums seem to know everything.

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

And this question is why my own resume is half-finished. My 1st bachelor's is in a related field and from a much more prestigious college than my 2nd bachelor's. But it is from the 20th century. I can't decide if the name of my 1st alma mater will open more doors than the date of the degree will close.

[Arcadia]

For engineering project management jobs, people do ask about the worth of the projects managed like how many millions each for small projects and also the number of direct reports as well as vendors supervised.

 

BTW, re. the dates, when my husband was out of work, he got NO responses to his resume until I helped him rewrite it with some of his earliest experience omitted. Coincidence? I don't think so. Ageism is alive and well, particularly in tech.

For my husband's job interviews, they didn't even look at where he got his phd but which companies he has worked for. Poaching is still alive and well along with the ageism issue.

[Lanny]

Who sent that email to your DH?  If was from an ultra-successful head hunter, I would pay attention. From anyone else, less attention.

[Bambam]

I don't see the point. Yes, I think age matters, but once they interview him, his age will be apparent, so why not disclose the dates of the degree upfront? To not put those on a resume looks strange, and as someone who has helped go through resumes and decide which ones to interview, I'd put it in the don't call list without the degree dates on there. What are you hiding, billy boy? 

 

And I'm saying this gently, if I had a mate who was reviewing and second guessing my every step, it would really make me feel like they didn't trust me. This is my job (to find a job in this case), advice appreciated, second guessing is not. If I found my dh was posting online about my curriculum choices (oh, she wants to use Singapore for the early years, and she says she has done research and it is a fine rigorous offering, but I read somewhere that Fred Smith didn't like it, so I'm not sure, what do you think?), I'd be a little upset. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Bambam

[Guest]

I don't see the point. Yes, I think age matters, but once they interview him, his age will be apparent, so why not disclose the dates of the degree upfront? To not put those on a resume looks strange, and as someone who has helped go through resumes and decide which ones to interview, I'd put it in the don't call list with the degree dates on there. What are you hiding, billy boy? 

 

And I'm saying this gently, if I had a mate who was reviewing and second guessing my every step, it would really make me feel like they didn't trust me. This is my job (to find a job in this case), advice appreciated, second guessing is not. If I found my dh was posting online about my curriculum choices (oh, she wants to use Singapore for the early years, and she says she has done research and it is a fine rigorous offering, but I read somewhere that Fred Smith didn't like it, so I'm not sure, what do you think?), I'd be a little upset. 

 

I can't speak for every company, but for first level interview you're just usually trying to get through HR, who as a collective, doesn't tend to have the most common sense when it comes to hiring. That's why recruiting companies are successful- because so many HR departments are horrible at producing candidates. HR is usually a giant black hole if you don't know someone.

 

The scanning tools they use too are doing word searches, so as long as it's picking up a degree on the scan it makes the cut- you can leave the year off. If you get deeper in and get an interview, yeah you're right they will see his age, but that first hurdle is usually the biggest. Just get in the door. They'll find out the year anyway when they verify your degrees (if they do) but then they're already vested in you at that point so it doesn't matter. 

 

ETA: On the flip side of this, if a person is just out of college, but has experience dating back from high schoo/college yearsl on programming on the side or something, it also behooves them to remove the degree dates to get in the door, because they can be blown off as too young or inexperienced simply judging by graduation date. So I think dates in general aren't a good idea. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by texasmom33

[Loowit]

I think a lot of what to do depends on who is reviewing it.  My DH found that putting in key words for the specific job was the most effective thing when he was looking a couple years ago.  A lot of job resumes are reviewed by people who may not know much of the technical stuff about the job and they are just looking through them for key words and phrases that match the job posting.  I have no idea if DH has dates on his resume, but I think he probably does.

 

My DH works in IT and sometimes helps look over resumes once they are through the HR department screening.  He is much more interested in someone with good experience than with someone with a degree, even one from a prestigious college/university.  He needs someone that knows what the are doing and can get the job done.

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't see the point. Yes, I think age matters, but once they interview him, his age will be apparent, so why not disclose the dates of the degree upfront? 

Because at this point his goal is to Get. The. Interview.

 

Once he gets the interview, his age will be less important than his chops.  But if he can't Get The Interview he will never be able to show those chops.

 

This is just how it works.  I'm not saying it makes sense, but it is true.

[poppy]

The linked article says, in bold: "Do list your college, MBA, or grad school, but do not list a graduation date."

[Liz CA]

I think a lot of what to do depends on who is reviewing it.  My DH found that putting in key words for the specific job was the most effective thing when he was looking a couple years ago.  A lot of job resumes are reviewed by people who may not know much of the technical stuff about the job and they are just looking through them for key words and phrases that match the job posting.  I have no idea if DH has dates on his resume, but I think he probably does.

 

My DH works in IT and sometimes helps look over resumes once they are through the HR department screening.  He is much more interested in someone with good experience than with someone with a degree, even one from a prestigious college/university.  He needs someone that knows what the are doing and can get the job done.

 

Or some resumes are read by machines that automatically discard those resume that do not contain certain key phrases.

[Janeway]

Who sent that email to your DH? If was from an ultra-successful head hunter, I would pay attention. From anyone else, less attention.

That is an article that is out there, but I think the email with the link came from Indeed.

[Reefgazer]

I think I would put the degree and university but not the year. A resume without a year? I would wonder about it; I would wonder if it was legit.

My husband got an email stating that with tech careers, it is best to omit jobs from prior to 2000 and remove dates from degrees if it is before 2000. It has to do with ageism in tech. https://thecoffeelicious.com/your-y2k-bug-remove-every-year-before-2000-on-your-resume-668d0b94b49a

 

 

My husband's first university was a big name, top 10 university. But his degree was not technical there. Later, after working a couple years, he went back to school at a low tier school (which I think it trying to get to tier 1, but is not) and got his computer science degree.

 

I feel like he perhaps should have left the first college on there just because, well, the name of the school kind of makes his resume stand out. He says it does not matter. Maybe he is right.

[Janeway]

I think I would put the degree and university but not the year. A resume without a year? I would wonder about it; I would wonder if it was legit.

He put dates on the jobs, but removed all jobs started before 2000 from his resume. So the job he had from 1999-2001 has been removed as well as the one before that.

[Reefgazer]

I don't necessarily think an interview will reveal age. People routinely think I am 10-15 years younger than I am. In an age of hair color, cosmetic surgery, keeping yourself in shape at the gym, you can easily mask 15-20 years.

I can't speak for every company, but for first level interview you're just usually trying to get through HR, who as a collective, doesn't tend to have the most common sense when it comes to hiring. That's why recruiting companies are successful- because so many HR departments are horrible at producing candidates. HR is usually a giant black hole if you don't know someone.

 

The scanning tools they use too are doing word searches, so as long as it's picking up a degree on the scan it makes the cut- you can leave the year off. If you get deeper in and get an interview, yeah you're right they will see his age, but that first hurdle is usually the biggest. Just get in the door. They'll find out the year anyway when they verify your degrees (if they do) but then they're already vested in you at that point so it doesn't matter.

 

ETA: On the flip side of this, if a person is just out of college, but has experience dating back from high schoo/college yearsl on programming on the side or something, it also behooves them to remove the degree dates to get in the door, because they can be blown off as too young or inexperienced simply judging by graduation date. So I think dates in general aren't a good idea.

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't necessarily think an interview will reveal age. People routinely think I am 10-15 years younger than I am. In an age of hair color, cosmetic surgery, keeping yourself in shape at the gym, you can easily mask 15-20 years.

Also, talking about kind of vigorous hobbies is reputed to be helpful.

A friend of DH's talks about working out with a punching bag (how is this not alarming?) and his love of 10K's so that he sounds strong.  

Covering the grey is also smart if it's done subtly.

[StephanieZ]

A compromise would be to list all the degrees, but just omit dates (on all of them). List everything else, just not the year! 

[Lanny]

When I updated my resume on Monster I took advantage of their free resume checking service knowing they would then try to get me to pay for more service. Some of the comments were very helpful and interesting to me. I suggest that he submits his resume on Monster and requests that free service. If they suggest the same thing I would probably change the resume. If not I would leave that data on the resume.

 

Sent from my SM-G355M using Tapatalk

[Garga]

I don't see the point. Yes, I think age matters, but once they interview him, his age will be apparent, so why not disclose the dates of the degree upfront? To not put those on a resume looks strange, and as someone who has helped go through resumes and decide which ones to interview, I'd put it in the don't call list without the degree dates on there. What are you hiding, billy boy? 

 

And I'm saying this gently, if I had a mate who was reviewing and second guessing my every step, it would really make me feel like they didn't trust me. This is my job (to find a job in this case), advice appreciated, second guessing is not. If I found my dh was posting online about my curriculum choices (oh, she wants to use Singapore for the early years, and she says she has done research and it is a fine rigorous offering, but I read somewhere that Fred Smith didn't like it, so I'm not sure, what do you think?), I'd be a little upset. 

 

You can't get in the door if you're too old.  But if you mask your age, then you can get in the door.  And once you're in the door, then you have a shot at the job.

 

Janeway, I don't think there's anything wrong with asking us here about it.  Figuring out resumes and job interviews is very hard work and most of us are in the dark about how to do it.  I don't see it as sneaky or second guessing your husband, unless there is some serious bone of contention between the two of you about it.  

 

 

 

I don't necessarily think an interview will reveal age. People routinely think I am 10-15 years younger than I am. In an age of hair color, cosmetic surgery, keeping yourself in shape at the gym, you can easily mask 15-20 years.

 

Well, that's lucky for you (and for me--people often think I'm younger, too), but some people don't look younger.  They simply look their age and they're not doing anything wrong to do so. They just are an age...and they look it.  Perfectly normal.  My dh is 49 and he completely looks 49.  

 

And I can't imagine most people who are looking for jobs setting up appointments for cosmetic surgery to land a job.  And if you haven't been keeping up at the gym, there might not be time to lose 50 pounds before an interview.  So, it's nice in theory to think that someone could look 20 years younger than they are, but not practical.  I'm 44 and probably look like I'm somewhere in my late 30s, but I can't imagine anyone thinking a 44 year old woman looks like she's between 24 or 29 without serious surgical intervention. 

 

The older I get, the closer my looks match my real age.  When I was in my early 30s, I still looked like a teen (15 year age difference).  When I was in my mid-thirties, the gap started closing, I looked only about 10 years younger.  Now that I'm 44, I look about 5 or so years younger than I am.  So, a man who is in his 50s, will probably look like he's in his 50s.  And even if he looked like he's in his 40s...that's still starting to get "old" for job interviews.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Garga

[Janeway]

You can't get in the door if you're too old.  But if you mask your age, then you can get in the door.  And once you're in the door, then you have a shot at the job.

 

Janeway, I don't think there's anything wrong with asking us here about it.  Figuring out resumes and job interviews is very hard work and most of us are in the dark about how to do it.  I don't see it as sneaky or second guessing your husband, unless there is some serious bone of contention between the two of you about it.  

 

 

 

 

I told him I was going to ask. Also, it is not the first time where I asked a question here but before asking, I asked the original asker if it is ok for me to ask. And then I often show them the thread so they can see how I asked and what the answers were. For example, everything about the flights to Scotland. I told the person who asked me..."I don't know, but I bet I know where to find someone who really knows! They always seem to know about this stuff" and the original person told me sure. I posted twice about that now and the person thinks you all are extremely helpful and great.

[QueenCat]

Dh hires in a tech field. I asked him and he said he'd find it odd to not see a year listed for graduation.

[Mergath]

OP, has your dh considered applying for jobs outside of tech? If he has a ton of management experience but his actual tech skills are a little rusty and he feels like he's getting a bit old for the industry, could he try applying for something like an HR position with a non-tech company?