fractalgal Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Forgive me if this has been asked before. I have been wondering if he agrees with the Teacher's Unions general opposition to homeschooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I don't think he's come out in support of it publicly, but in one of his books, he wrote about support a family's right to decide for themselves. I believe (I may be wrong) that he was actually HSed for awhile in his youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn E Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Here are two threads which discussed Obama and homeschooling. I haven't read through either of them completely, but there may be stuff of interest in them. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52688&highlight=obama+homeschool http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38721&highlight=obama+homeschool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 he does support homeschooling and differs with the NEA on several issues, one being his support for charter schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-FL Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 he does support homeschooling and differs with the NEA on several issues, one being his support for charter schools. I saw on his website where he supports charter schools, but at least here, they're still public schools w/the same rules (must have cert. teacher so not a huge NEA break). I can't find a thing on homeschooling. He also supports 0-5 universal voluntary pre-school giving more jobs to NEA members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHGrandma Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Read http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Education.htm , I think it explains his positions without bias. It uses his own words, little commentary, some fact checks. IMO -- After reading that website, I'm a bit concerned about his plans I've said that I'm going to put billions of dollars into early childhood education that makes sure that our African-American youth, Latino youth, poor youth of every race, are getting the kind of help that they need so that they know their numbers, their colors, their letters. Every dollar that we spend in early childhood education, we get $10 back in reduced dropout rates, improved reading scores. How close is that to slipping into mandatory schooling for toddlers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I saw on his website where he supports charter schools, but at least here, they're still public schools w/the same rules (must have cert. teacher so not a huge NEA break). I can't find a thing on homeschooling. He also supports 0-5 universal voluntary pre-school giving more jobs to NEA members. Most of the preschool teachers I know wouldn't even qualify for NEA membership, I don't think. Preschool teaching is a great line of work. I know quite a few women with small children who have taught at preschools, which has contrinuted greatly to their ability to balance work and family. One thing I think that is needed is higher pay for preschool teachers. As far as charter schools being public schools with the same rules- not here. There is a charter school for highly gifted children in my state. there is a charter school in my state that has worked with high school students as young as 12 in a dual enrollment situation. There are charter schools that support homeschooling in some states. My local charters don't have any more to offer than the regular public schools, however they do offer lots more to the kids who are a good fit in the regular schools. These kids get lots of art, music, REAL history, and a much more rigorous academic program. And I would expect that if I were sending my child to any school- public or private, they would employ certified teachers. 0-5 programs have benefitted my community GREATLY. I am glad to have my tax dollars funding these programs and would love to see them expand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 0-5 programs have benefitted my community GREATLY. I am glad to have my tax dollars funding these programs and would love to see them expand. ITA. I do not buy the slippery slope argument at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachermom_7 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 It is pretty sad to say, but most presidents do alot of "talking" about education when they're campaigning, but when the get into office, education typically takes a backseat. This is not meant to be a derogatory statement, just a look at the facts of today. We have our guys in Iraq and Afghanistan, the economic predictions are frightening, as well as SOOOOO many other things, I find it hard to believe that the very first thing on his (or McCain's) agenda if he gets into office will be the education ticket. In addition to all of the other things the new president will have to contend with, unfortunately his decision isn't always what transpires. The Congress and Senate have alot to say with what actually happens after the President puts his two cents in. So, I'm not "worried." Concerned if Obama gets in ~ YES!! But for MANY other reasons other than just education. Plus, on a side note, Illinois is still a "free" state where homeschooling is concerned (no registration requirements with the state, no teaching requirements, etc). I think if he was adamently against homeschooling, he would have tried something in his own state already. I know all of us are concerned citizens right now with the upcoming elections. We must keep in mind what Proverbs says ~ "The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord." No matter who gets in, God knows!! Hope you're all having a GREAT week!! Tammie in LA :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivium Academy Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I suggest reading for yourself the information at Obama's website. I personally do not see anything that indicates that he wishes to preserve/protect individual rights. I see plenty where he wants big brother to come in and lend a hand, which always comes with a price. I feel being so elusive on so many points has allowed his campaign to be as successful as it is. If you don't get details, there's nothing to attack/defend. Honestly, lately I've been wavering in my decision of who to vote for but this particular issue is very important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkInTheBlue Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Ok, I admit I'm being lazy so I'm just going to ask this here rather than look it up. I'm certain that on this board I read a "fact" that said Obama was supportive of a bill that would have made homeschooling in Illinois very difficult if not nearly impossible. He was supportive of the bill. Is this a complete urban legend? I can't find anything on Snopes but they are as heavy on agenda as CNN sometimes. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachermom_7 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This is not from "personal" experience, so if someone else some more enlightening info, please share.... My sister is a certified teacher homeschooling her children near Chicago. She said there was a bill in the last year or two that they tried to pass to regulate homeschooling in Illinois. It appeared to be VERY grave to homeschoolers at the time because there was absolutely NO regulations in place. They tried to go for an "all or nothing" approach with homeschool regulations, hence the main reason it did not pass. It would have made it a little more difficult, yes, but not impossible. Again, if anyone else has more pertinent info, I'd love to know as well. Thanks! Tammie in LA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaC Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 He was not pro-hsing when he was in the IL senate. He was fully in the pockets of the NEA then and as a liberal I suspect he still is. I remember being part of a letter writing campaign to stop a bill that would have made hsing very difficult and next to impossible to hs and Obama was backing that bill or co-sponsoring it. Seems like it was 97 but I could be wrong it was one of the first years hsing and we started in March of 96. It was when he first came into office. IL hser were very well organized and we had a very successful letter and phone call drive against it. It shocked the Dems, Obama, and the NEA and it was not brought up again. I do not think it even got on the floor for a vote seems like it was something still in a committee but I could be wrong because it was over 10 years ago. It was the first time I heard of Obama so it stuck, Obama not in favor of hsing. He might have changed his mind but I certainly am not giving him the benefit of the doubt. This is my experience with Obama in IL and I have not looked for any web sites that back this up. Feel free to do so. I just know that I wrote letters and made several phone calls and have no idea if there is a record of it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I personally do not see anything that indicates that he wishes to preserve/protect individual rights. I see plenty where he wants big brother to come in and lend a hand, which always comes with a price. I agree with this. Across the board, Barack Obama is a big believer in the power of government to positively influence people's lives. Unless he had a clear record of defending and supporting homeschooling (he does not), I see no good reason to assume that he makes an exception to his general philosophy of government oversight for the issue of homeschooling. Being a proponent of government schools as the best option is entirely consistent with his record and with his overall perspective on the role of government. A pro-homeschooling candidate would also not be endorsed as enthusiastically as Obama has been by the NEA, which is firmly *anti* homeschooling. He may be "okay" with homeschooling as an option, at most. Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in VA Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 In a previous thread a poster from Illinois talked about legislation Obama supported which would make homeschooling more difficult in Illinois. It was supported by the NEA. It is the 5th post down here http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50492&highlight=obama+illinois Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryM Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This link summarizes positions nicely: http://f2a.org/coast2coast/voterguides/F2A-Presidential-2008.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillcrest Academy Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I agree with this. Across the board, Barack Obama is a big believer in the power of government to positively influence people's lives. Unless he had a clear record of defending and supporting homeschooling (he does not), I see no good reason to assume that he makes an exception to his general philosophy of government oversight for the issue of homeschooling. Being a proponent of government schools as the best option is entirely consistent with his record and with his overall perspective on the role of government. A pro-homeschooling candidate would also not be endorsed as enthusiastically as Obama has been by the NEA, which is firmly *anti* homeschooling. He may be "okay" with homeschooling as an option, at most. Erica :iagree: to this and to Jessica's statement. Obama is for govt. mandated decisions in just about everything. He talks about many things that look on the surface like they would be good for Joe the Plumber (sorry, Joe!) but in the end, it comes down to allowing our lives to be run right down to the details by the govt. Whether those details look nice (like, say, deciding whether I must have health insurance or not) ultimately, I don't need the govt deciding anything for me, and neither should any of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This link summarizes positions nicely: http://f2a.org/coast2coast/voterguides/F2A-Presidential-2008.pdf From an organization called Faith2Action? Not so much. Can you provide a link to Obama's Web site where it says he opposes "17. Allowing parents to home school their children with little or no government interference"? Because I was just there, and I didn't see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri in MI Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 :iagree: to this and to Jessica's statement. Obama is for govt. mandated decisions in just about everything. He talks about many things that look on the surface like they would be good for Joe the Plumber (sorry, Joe!) but in the end, it comes down to allowing our lives to be run right down to the details by the govt. Whether those details look nice (like, say, deciding whether I must have health insurance or not) ultimately, I don't need the govt deciding anything for me, and neither should any of us. Ditto. Health insurance is a big issue for me and my family, but I do NOT want the government taking care of it. The government is so out-of-control already, and I believe Obama wants to make it even bigger. Instead of Uncle Sam he wants to turn the U.S. into Papa Sam who will provide for you and take care of everything for you. He may be well-intentioned, but I disagree with his ideas for solutions. It is not the government's job to solve all our problems or protect us from everything, including our own bad decisions. It's especially not their job to make sure everyone has a house. If Obama and all the liberals think that everyone has a "right" to a house and a college education, then where is my family's handout for these things? I come from a decent, middle class family. We don't have a house, my mom doesn't have a house (and she works hard as a nurse!), my sister doesn't have a house. My sister and I never finished college because we couldn't afford it. I didn't see my government handout. I guess I need to become an illegal alien, then I could finish my degree for free. Okay, before you throw tomatoes, I know I'm being bad and sarcastic. I don't think I'm owed anything, but I don't think they should take money away from my family to give to other families. Charity should be a personal decision. I do resent having to pay extra taxes and hear the speeches of all the do-gooders in government about how everyone "deserves" this and that, while I have watched our quality of life and lifestyle decline over the years compared to that of my family when I was growing up, despite my dh having a good wage and us living simply. Make no mistake, Obama is for the government taking from some (not just the rich, but the middle class as well) to give to others he deems to be less advantaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Looks like the floodgates have been opened. I was wondering how long we could refrain from political talk. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paula in PA Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Looks like the floodgates have been opened. I was wondering how long we could refrain from political talk. :D I'm surprised it lasted this long. Maybe it's a record or something. :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmamainva Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Looks like the floodgates have been opened. I was wondering how long we could refrain from political talk. :D I was just thinking the same thing!!!!! But...two weeks from now, it'll be a moot point!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I was just thinking the same thing!!!!! But...two weeks from now, it'll be a moot point!! :D I really can't wait until this election happens. I'll be disappointed if my candidate doesn't win, but I'm so happy to be living through this historic time. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that we'll have either a black president or a female vice president. I really can't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibbyl Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Ditto. Health insurance is a big issue for me and my family, but I do NOT want the government taking care of it. The government is so out-of-control already, and I believe Obama wants to make it even bigger. Instead of Uncle Sam he wants to turn the U.S. into Papa Sam who will provide for you and take care of everything for you. He may be well-intentioned, but I disagree with his ideas for solutions. It is not the government's job to solve all our problems or protect us from everything, including our own bad decisions. It's especially not their job to make sure everyone has a house. If Obama and all the liberals think that everyone has a "right" to a house and a college education, then where is my family's handout for these things? I come from a decent, middle class family. We don't have a house, my mom doesn't have a house (and she works hard as a nurse!), my sister doesn't have a house. My sister and I never finished college because we couldn't afford it. I didn't see my government handout. I guess I need to become an illegal alien, then I could finish my degree for free. Okay, before you throw tomatoes, I know I'm being bad and sarcastic. I don't think I'm owed anything, but I don't think they should take money away from my family to give to other families. Charity should be a personal decision. I do resent having to pay extra taxes and hear the speeches of all the do-gooders in government about how everyone "deserves" this and that, while I have watched our quality of life and lifestyle decline over the years compared to that of my family when I was growing up, despite my dh having a good wage and us living simply. Make no mistake, Obama is for the government taking from some (not just the rich, but the middle class as well) to give to others he deems to be less advantaged. Please point me in the right direction for a free college education for illegal aliens. The information could be life-changing for a certain acquaintance of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percytruffle Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I suggest reading for yourself the information at Obama's website. I personally do not see anything that indicates that he wishes to preserve/protect individual rights. I see plenty where he wants big brother to come in and lend a hand, which always comes with a price. I feel being so elusive on so many points has allowed his campaign to be as successful as it is. If you don't get details, there's nothing to attack/defend. Honestly, lately I've been wavering in my decision of who to vote for but this particular issue is very important to me. I agree. You summed up my analysis of the situation very accurately. Of course you would, being my political twin and all! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Just a quick note on the health care thing - Obama had NOT said once that any health care, including the government option, would be mandatory. So, I don't understand why people are making it sound like he says it is. He has said, and very clearly, that it would be an option for people whose jobs don't offer insurance. Option, as in optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I agree with this. Across the board, Barack Obama is a big believer in the power of government to positively influence people's lives. Unless he had a clear record of defending and supporting homeschooling (he does not), I see no good reason to assume that he makes an exception to his general philosophy of government oversight for the issue of homeschooling. Being a proponent of government schools as the best option is entirely consistent with his record and with his overall perspective on the role of government. A pro-homeschooling candidate would also not be endorsed as enthusiastically as Obama has been by the NEA, which is firmly *anti* homeschooling. He may be "okay" with homeschooling as an option, at most. Erica I think that is an accurate assessment of his stance on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Most charity donations are tax deductible. If you want less of your money to go to government and more to charity, get a receipt. ETA- John McCain is not a "pro-homeschooling" candidate either. I believe Bob Barr is, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 he does support homeschooling and differs with the NEA on several issues, one being his support for charter schools. Your source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean too Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Most charity donations are tax deductible. If you want less of your money to go to government and more to charity, get a receipt. ETA- John McCain is not a "pro-homeschooling" candidate either. I believe Bob Barr is, though. John McCain does support homeschooling. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93004032 McCain: He supports school vouchers, home schooling, charter schools and any program that allows parents to chose the school their child will attend. Obama:Obama also wants to give parents more options when they pick a school for their children, but he would limit those choices to public charter schools. He does not support vouchers for children to attend private and parochial schools. He is the first presidential candidate ever to propose accrediting all schools of education that train teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This is my experience with Obama in IL and I have not looked for any web sites that back this up. Feel free to do so. I just know that I wrote letters and made several phone calls and have no idea if there is a record of it anywhere. With all due respect, Rebecca, you've mentioned this "proposed legislation" several times on these boards, and your posts are the only mention I've ever seen of it. I did spend a good bit of time searching for confirmation of it awhile back, including searching HSDLA's archives, and couldn't find anything. I don't mean to doubt your memory on this, but I also would hate to see people repeat as fact one person's undocumented recollection about legislation as proof that Obama is or was anti-homeschooling, especially without even looking at the legislation in question. I know in my state I've seen homeschoolers start letter writing campaigns against legislation that I have no objection to myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen in NJ Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 From an organization called Faith2Action? Not so much. Can you provide a link to Obama's Web site where it says he opposes "17. Allowing parents to home school their children with little or no government interference"? Because I was just there, and I didn't see that. Could you point to where he says that he supports homeschooling. I have been to his site. I have read the whole site. I didn't see anything there saying that he supports homeschooling. If he does support the parents right to homeschool, why didn't he just come out and say that he does on he website? I did not read anything on homeschooling. I did not read anything about supporting parents rights. I did read that he wants to expand public schools. He has a Zero to 5 plan. There is a lot of talk about preschool for children as young as zero. From what I read on his own website, I don't think he supports homeschooling. I think he is against homeschooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Please point me in the right direction for a free college education for illegal aliens. The information could be life-changing for a certain acquaintance of mine. If I recall correctly, you just take a hard right at the Giant Pink Unicorn. It's next to the Communist Overlords Bar & Grill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen in NJ Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I agree with this. Across the board, Barack Obama is a big believer in the power of government to positively influence people's lives. Unless he had a clear record of defending and supporting homeschooling (he does not), I see no good reason to assume that he makes an exception to his general philosophy of government oversight for the issue of homeschooling. Being a proponent of government schools as the best option is entirely consistent with his record and with his overall perspective on the role of government. A pro-homeschooling candidate would also not be endorsed as enthusiastically as Obama has been by the NEA, which is firmly *anti* homeschooling. He may be "okay" with homeschooling as an option, at most. Erica :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen in NJ Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Most charity donations are tax deductible. If you want less of your money to go to government and more to charity, get a receipt. ETA- John McCain is not a "pro-homeschooling" candidate either. I believe Bob Barr is, though. Where did you see that? Could you please provide a link? This is from McCains own Website. Quote: The deplorable status of preparation for our children, particularly in comparison with the rest of the industrialized world, does not allow us the luxury of eliminating options in our educational repertoire. John McCain will fight for the ability of all students to have access to all schools of demonstrated excellence, including their own homes. I haven't found such a statement on Obama's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Here are two threads which discussed Obama and homeschooling. I haven't read through either of them completely, but there may be stuff of interest in them. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52688&highlight=obama+homeschool I started that thread. . . that got hot. . . there's lots of good info there and pertinent links. FWIW, I provided an exact quote from one of Obama's books in which he explicitly supports the family's right to choose to hs. . . as well as passionately states respect and appreciation for the value of a mother's role, parental sacrifices and the value of the SAHM/SAH parent. . . Also, there is some info from me and independent sources about Obama's own experience as a child being primarily educated by his mother (several hours a day of instruction from mom in the major educational areas, which I called homeschooling. . . as I see that as his primary source of education during those years which was supplemented by a local Indonesian school which I am interpreting as being the non-primary source of his education at that point, and being more of a cultural experience/babysitting service while his mom worked. . . My definition of his schooling as "hsing" was debated hotly, butI chose/choose not to debate it . . .) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaC Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) With all due respect, Rebecca, you've mentioned this "proposed legislation" several times on these boards, and your posts are the only mention I've ever seen of it. I did spend a good bit of time searching for confirmation of it awhile back, including searching HSDLA's archives, and couldn't find anything. I don't mean to doubt your memory on this, but I also would hate to see people repeat as fact one person's undocumented recollection about legislation as proof that Obama is or was anti-homeschooling, especially without even looking at the legislation in question. I know in my state I've seen homeschoolers start letter writing campaigns against legislation that I have no objection to myself. IL at that time did not work closely with HSDLA because we had a plethora of Lawyer fathers in leadership in IL at ICHE. So I seriously doubt that you would find it in the archives of the HSDLA archives. Those fathers tho have left leadership to some extent because their kids have graded. Hsing has been going on in IL since 1960ish and has been seen as a private school legally since a ruling that happened then. From that time until the mid 2000 we have not had the legal problems other states have had so not a whole lot of hsers in the 90s in IL belonged to HSLDA. In the mid 2000 a school district in Lake country, I think or another northern county, tried to heavy hand some hsers none belonged to HSDLA, however HSDLA help those hsers because it would have set presidence for the entire nation and because most of the Lawyer dads in home school leadership in IL had moved on. The folks who started the drive were the above said lawyer dads at ICHE(Illinois Christian Home Educators). If they have an archive try there. So good sluthing but you are off the mark looking at HSLDA. Sorry they have not always been viewed as the official legal voice for hsing in every state. I think they do good work but when I started hsing I can remember being told not to bother joining because IL took care of its own and we really had no need for such protection. Now again I can not offer the documented proof that some of y'all crave. Maybe go post on the ICHE boards and some one who was hsing in the mid 90s will remember. However bear in mind that most folks who visit these kinds of boards are newbies not veterans and any one who remembers will have kids in late high school or graded. I began hsing/home theraping early due to my sons LD issues. Any way question away I know what happened. I lived it. Gotta know the history and the history in IL and HSLDA was not a big player untill the mid 2000s. By the way the bill was aimed at private schools not just at hsing. Since hsing was viewed as a private school legally it would have affected us and those backing the bill were aiming at hsers. So again if you are sluthing for a bill on hsing only you will not get far. Edited October 23, 2008 by RebeccaC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I started that thread. . . that got hot. . . there's lots of good info there and pertinent links. FWIW, I provided an exact quote from one of Obama's books in which he explicitly supports the family's right to choose to hs. . . as well as passionately states respect and appreciation for the value of a mother's role, parental sacrifices and the value of the SAHM/SAH parent. . . Also, there is some info from me and independent sources about Obama's own experience as a child being primarily educated by his mother (several hours a day of instruction from mom in the major educational areas, which I called homeschooling. . . as I see that as his primary source of education during those years which was supplemented by a local Indonesian school which I am interpreting as being the non-primary source of his education at that point, and being more of a cultural experience/babysitting service while his mom worked. . . My definition of his schooling as "hsing" was debated hotly, butI chose/choose not to debate it . . .) Imo, neither one comment in one book, nor early morning tutoring for a short time by one's mother, constitute "explicit support for homeschooling"--- not coming from an individual who has spent years in state legislature, and who is also a presidential candidate who has presented an exhaustive plan for education on his website, with not a single word about homeschooling. While he may not have done anything to oppose homeschooling (though some from Illinois have suggested that he did just that), it's a real stretch to look at Obama's public record and say that he's supportive of homeschooling. Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 So good sluthing but you are off the mark looking at HSLDA. Sorry they have not always been viewed as the official legal voice for hsing in every state. I think they do good work but when I started hsing I can remember being told not to bother joining because IL took care of its own and we really had no need for such protection. I didn't mean to suggest that HSDLA was my go-to on the search. I mention them because I specifically remember searching their archives, after first doing a general google search looking for any controversial homeschooling legislation in Illinois. Again, I'm not questioning your memory here. I'm just saying that I've seen several people cite your posts as their sole evidence that Obama is against homeschooling, without any documentation and without having looked at the legislation you're referencing themselves. I'm not questioning whether YOU should be making decisions based on your memory of these events; I'm just suggesting that it might not be the best way for OTHER people to make decisions. As far as I've seen (and this has been discussed over and over again, here and elsewhere) the only concrete evidence one way or the other for Obama's position on homeschooling is his own statement in support of it in his book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaC Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I didn't mean to suggest that HSDLA was my go-to on the search. I mention them because I specifically remember searching their archives, after first doing a general google search looking for any controversial homeschooling legislation in Illinois. Again, I'm not questioning your memory here. I'm just saying that I've seen several people cite your posts as their sole evidence that Obama is against homeschooling, without any documentation and without having looked at the legislation you're referencing themselves. I'm not questioning whether YOU should be making decisions based on your memory of these events; I'm just suggesting that it might not be the best way for OTHER people to make decisions. As far as I've seen (and this has been discussed over and over again, here and elsewhere) the only concrete evidence one way or the other for Obama's position on homeschooling is his own statement in support of it in his book. Well, let me suggest that you don't address your post to me but to the people on the board. You did quote my post, twice now, which is the same as addressing me, is it not? Let me also suggest that his statement in his book may or may not be good evidence. When it comes to politicians it is what they do that matters not what they say or write and that goes for every kind of politician under the sun. So look at his record did he doing anything against using or in the state of IL against private schools.... what did he support.. Lastly think of it this way. He gets a big chunk of change from the Teachers unions and those folks in power in at the teachers union. Is there an entity that represents hser that donates to any politicians war chest? When push comes to shove Every Politician knows which side their bread is buttered on. They are always looking at the next campaign even while campaigning for the the current election. So where is the large hs block that will make a political think these folks are really worth protecting rather than do I really want to lose the support of the the Teacher's unions who have given x amount and are now pressuring me....... This might sound jaded but it is what I learned knocking on doors in Washington for CAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Well, let me suggest that you don't address your post to me but to the people on the board. You did quote my post, twice now, which is the same as addressing me, is it not? Well, I was referencing your posts. I felt like quoting them was the clearest way to make my point. I was also specifically addressing your suggestion that people interested in finding out more could search for the legislation themselves. I did search, and I couldn't find anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Well, I was referencing your posts. I felt like quoting them was the clearest way to make my point. I was also specifically addressing your suggestion that people interested in finding out more could search for the legislation themselves. I did search, and I couldn't find anything.I can't find anything either. A bill number, or a sponsor's name or something would be tremendously helpful. It would also be helpful to know exactly how far the bill got. Was it ever heard by the relevant committee? Did it leave committee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie in CA Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 If I recall correctly, you just take a hard right at the Giant Pink Unicorn. It's next to the Communist Overlords Bar & Grill. Audrey, I just love this one--made me giggle! Susie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaC Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Well, I was referencing your posts. I felt like quoting them was the clearest way to make my point. I was also specifically addressing your suggestion that people interested in finding out more could search for the legislation themselves. I did search, and I couldn't find anything. Ahhh, and I made that suggestion so that folks would know that I would not be providing anything other than my experience and so not to post show me the bacon with a link or...... And then you never know what a sluthing his mom will dig up ;) when she is highly motivated. Just because you did not find any does not mean it did not happen. I have always posted that it was my experience and I have nothing to gain by posting it and if some one is so minded they can go back and see when I posted that I was not for any candidate with the exception of writing in Baby Leo Kitty names. I equally disliked them all and have not come to like McCain any better I just happen to like his VP pick and so since they are in my opinion the lesser of all the evils they get my vote, plus I have to keep on sleeping with dha and he is, always has been, a McCainite. Which is beyond me.......... There was a time when things were not on the net. Legislation from the 90s, from a state senate, that probably did not come up for a vote may very well not be posted or linked. That does not mean that it did not happen. It just means there is no evidence other than anecdotal. Which in my opinion is about as good as forming ones choice from books written for political reasons, and that goes for both Obama and McCain. Propaganda is the word that comes to mind when I think of their books and Nancy Pelosi book and any politicians book written by them or for them or with help while they and their followers are still breathing...... And the point still is when referencing or quoting a post you are addressing the poster of the post........ :D But I have to say that I like your tenacity and think it is a good and very excellent trait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Imo, neither one comment in one book, nor early morning tutoring for a short time by one's mother, constitute "explicit support for homeschooling"--- not coming from an individual who has spent years in state legislature, and who is also a presidential candidate who has presented an exhaustive plan for education on his website, with not a single word about homeschooling. While he may not have done anything to oppose homeschooling (though some from Illinois have suggested that he did just that), it's a real stretch to look at Obama's public record and say that he's supportive of homeschooling. Erica I think it's also a real stretch to look at his public record and say that he's anti-homeschooling. Any candidate with the endorsement of the NEA knows that it would be halfway to political suicide to then come out with a big fat pro-homeschooling statement. And I just don't understand why having an exhaustive plan for our educational system means that he's automatically anti-HSing :confused: Are not the vast, vast majority of the children in this country in the public school system? Is it not, in many ways, failing them all? Do you really think the whole thing couldn't USE an exhaustive plan to make it better? Heck, many of us here have children IN that public school system. Don't we want a candidate who wants better for them too? I'm just really mystified here. IMO, Obama proclaiming his stance in a book written before he was even a candidate means as much as McCain proclaiming his on the campaign trail. Personally, I just don't see any Republican or Democrat making HSing a pet cause. I'm sure it's something they're happy to have handled at the state level, the same way the school systems are for the most part. I really don't think we are more than a blip on the radar screens of any mainstream presidential candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaC Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I can't find anything either. A bill number, or a sponsor's name or something would be tremendously helpful. It would also be helpful to know exactly how far the bill got. Was it ever heard by the relevant committee? Did it leave committee? Hmmm, and just what did you look for? A bill about hsing prehaps? Like I have already posted it would have been a bill about private schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyK Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 If I recall correctly, you just take a hard right at the Giant Pink Unicorn. It's next to the Communist Overlords Bar & Grill. __________________ Too bad. As much as I enjoy the political discussions, I certainly have not missed the disrespect and hostility. I am really enjoying this conversation. I hope it can stay civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Hmmm, and just what did you look for? A bill about hsing prehaps? Like I have already posted it would have been a bill about private schools.I can read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaC Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I can read. So did you read all of the bills he proposed that never left committee in IL. Bill after bill after bill read twice and left in committee. Your eyes will blur reading them all. I will try and make some calls tomorrow and see if some one remembers which of the every so many stellar bills he backed or wrote that staid in committee it was. However if it staid in committee it probably will not be on the web will it........ Again just because y'all can't find it does not mean it did not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 So did you read all of the bills he proposed that never left committee in IL. Bill after bill after bill read twice and left in committee. Your eyes will blur reading them all. I will try and make some calls tomorrow and see if some one remembers which of the every so many stellar bills he backed or wrote that staid in committee it was. However if it staid in committee it probably will not be on the web will it........ Again just because y'all can't find it does not mean it did not happen. You seem to misunderstand. I have no doubt that some bill existed. But without the text of the bill and its specific history I cannot make an informed evaluation. As much information as possible helps when trying to find a state bill from over 10 years ago that may not even have made it to a committee vote. I was not being facetious when I wrote: A bill number, or a sponsor's name or something would be tremendously helpful. It would also be helpful to know exactly how far the bill got. Was it ever heard by the relevant committee? Did it leave committee? Any information you can supply would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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