Nice

[Laura Corin]

My parents-in-law are elderly and ill. We may need to visit them on short notice. To do this, I need to register with the Department of Homeland Security in advance, otherwise I will be refused entry (with my British passport). When I started registration, this is what popped up:

 

"This Department of Homeland Security (DHS) computer system and any related equipment is subject to monitoring for administrative oversight, law enforcement, criminal investigative purposes, inquiries into alleged wrongdoing or misuse, and to ensure proper performance of applicable security features and procedures. As part of this monitoring, DHS may acquire, access, retain, intercept, capture, retrieve, record, read, inspect, analyze, audit, copy and disclose any information processed, transmitted, received, communicated, and stored within the computer system. If monitoring reveals possible misuse or criminal activity, notice of such may be provided to appropriate supervisory personnel and law enforcement officials. DHS may conduct these activities in any manner without further notice."

 

Laura

[Jenny in Atl]

Yes, welcome to America, where we fear socialized medicine "nanny state", but have no problems with the growing "police state". :tongue_smilie:

Edited October 18, 2008 by Jenny in Atl

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

My parents-in-law are elderly and ill. We may need to visit them on short notice. To do this, I need to register with the Department of Homeland Security in advance, otherwise I will be refused entry (with my British passport). When I started registration, this is what popped up:

 

"This Department of Homeland Security (DHS) computer system and any related equipment is subject to monitoring for administrative oversight, law enforcement, criminal investigative purposes, inquiries into alleged wrongdoing or misuse, and to ensure proper performance of applicable security features and procedures. As part of this monitoring, DHS may acquire, access, retain, intercept, capture, retrieve, record, read, inspect, analyze, audit, copy and disclose any information processed, transmitted, received, communicated, and stored within the computer system. If monitoring reveals possible misuse or criminal activity, notice of such may be provided to appropriate supervisory personnel and law enforcement officials. DHS may conduct these activities in any manner without further notice."

 

Laura

 

I'm so sorry. I really am.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

Laura, I thought Brits didn't need visas to go to the US. Is that no longer the case?

[Laura Corin]

Laura, I thought Brits didn't need visas to go to the US. Is that no longer the case?

 

But we now need to go through this process on line in order to get in without visas.....

 

Laura

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I just looked at my post and am now wondering if shortening British citizens is considered rude. If so, let me know and I'll endevour to erase it from my Canuck vocabulary. :confused:

[Laura Corin]

I'm so sorry. I really am.

 

Laura

[Melinda in VT]

I just looked at my post and am now wondering if shortening British citizens is considered rude. If so, let me know and I'll endevour to erase it from my Canuck vocabulary. :confused:

 

While we're waiting for Laura's answer, can you tell me if Canuck is considered rude when used by non-Canadians?

[Melinda in VT]

I'm so sorry. I really am.

 

:iagree:

[Laura Corin]

There are some British people who don't like the use of 'Brits'. They say that it was first used in Northern Ireland as a pejorative term by IRA sympathisers. I don't mind it at all, personally. Many familiar terms for groups of people have unsavoury origins.

 

ETA: this is what Wikipedia has to say on the subject:

"Brit

 

Use of the term Brit seems to have become widespread in more recent times. The correct form is actually Briton, yet is rare in colloquial usage. The term 'Brit' was commonly used by nationalist Irish in Northern Ireland, during which time it acquired highly pejorative connotations, which some feel it still has; it is best to err on the side of caution and use the more formal Briton."

 

Laura

Edited October 18, 2008 by Laura in China

[keptwoman]

UG that's awful! Talk about Big Brother!

 

Travelling to the US with the erosion of privacy rights worries me these days. I hear they can confiscate laptops and other data sources on entry for inspection.

Oh well it's lucky we are too broke to hit Disney within the next 5 years. Maybe by then they will have eased up a bit.

[Starr]

Your original post brings DHS home. Sorry!

[Stacie]

I'm sorry you're having to go through this, especially at a time when your in-laws are suffering from poor health.

 

On a lighter note, have you considered flying into Mexico and walking over? It seems a bit easier...

[Laura Corin]

I'm sorry you're having to go through this, especially at a time when your in-laws are suffering from poor health.

 

On a lighter note, have you considered flying into Mexico and walking over? It seems a bit easier...

 

The in-laws are in Texas.....

 

Laura

[Rhonda in TX]

Yes, welcome to America, where we fear socialized medicine "nanny state", but have no problems with the growing "police state". :tongue_smilie:

 

Not a fan of either.

[Rhonda in TX]

I'm so sorry. I really am.

 

:iagree: It really stinks.

[Spy Car]

Yes, welcome to America, where we fear socialized medicine "nanny state", but have no problems with the growing "police state". :tongue_smilie:

 

I swear you took the words right out of my mouth :001_smile:

[brehon]

Yes, welcome to America, where we fear socialized medicine "nanny state", but have no problems with the growing "police state". :tongue_smilie:

:iagree::iagree:

 

And, like Pam and others have said, I'm very sorry you're having to deal with this.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I wouldn't consider it rude unless it was being used rudely (if that makes any sense). I don't think the word in itself is rude. However, Canuckistan - that's rude but then it's clearly meant to be rude when it's used.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

Thanks, now that I know that I'll expunge it from my vocabulary.

[Mamagistra]

:eek: :glare:

 

Oh, Laura...what an embarrassment for our "free" country. Grr. So sorry.

[Peela]

Its interesting....a friend of mine has been traveling recently to Alaska, stopping off in NZ on the way home. She said that in America, the security system is hostile to foreigners- she and her family (dh and two kids) were made to feel virtually like criminals until proven innocent. She said it was very unpleasant going through security in America.

When they went into NZ, the personnel were very friendly and efficient- and discovered several prohibited things in their baggage which had also been in their baggage going into America, such as a small pair of scissors.

So the NZ security was friendly and actually worked, but the American security was unfriendly, over the top- and she felt, inefficient and more concerned with appearing to be doing something, than actually doing something.

Interesting times.

I read a statistic the other day- more people have died of peanut allergies than have died from terrorist attacks (in some given amount of time, I can't remember). (not to be insensitive to those affected by terrorism, but making everyone terribly frightened and upping security to incredible levels has more to do with taking an opportunity to increase control over people than genuine care for the population. IMO).

[Audrey]

While we're waiting for Laura's answer, can you tell me if Canuck is considered rude when used by non-Canadians?

 

Not rude. It's even the name of one our hockey teams.

 

Crappy hockey team... though. :tongue_smilie:

[Wendi]

I understand what you're saying, Peela. But I think sometimes that all this security stuff also falls into the "****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't" category. If you enforce lots of security measures, people complain and think you're going overboard. But if you don't, and something happens, people will complain even louder.

 

I'm sorry to hear the American personnel weren't as friendly as the Kiwis, though.

 

Wendi

[chiguirre]

Its interesting....a friend of mine has been traveling recently to Alaska, stopping off in NZ on the way home. She said that in America, the security system is hostile to foreigners- she and her family (dh and two kids) were made to feel virtually like criminals until proven innocent. She said it was very unpleasant going through security in America.

 

 

They treat Americans that way too, especially if you're entering from Latin America. Going through passport control is about as friendly as getting a traffic ticket.

[gardening momma]

"This Department of Homeland Security (DHS) computer system and any related equipment is subject to monitoring ... within the computer system.

 

This is their computer system, not yours. Anything processed through their equipment.

[astrid]

I swear you took the words right out of my mouth :001_smile:

 

And I'm finally logging on at nearly 11 pm, but dang, those words were just floating out of my mouth and into the ether when I scrolled down and saw them in your post, Jenny!

 

astrid

[Amanda's Mommy]

Its interesting....a friend of mine has been traveling recently to Alaska, stopping off in NZ on the way home. She said that in America, the security system is hostile to foreigners- she and her family (dh and two kids) were made to feel virtually like criminals until proven innocent. She said it was very unpleasant going through security in America.

When they went into NZ, the personnel were very friendly and efficient- and discovered several prohibited things in their baggage which had also been in their baggage going into America, such as a small pair of scissors.

So the NZ security was friendly and actually worked, but the American security was unfriendly, over the top- and she felt, inefficient and more concerned with appearing to be doing something, than actually doing something.

Interesting times.

I read a statistic the other day- more people have died of peanut allergies than have died from terrorist attacks (in some given amount of time, I can't remember). (not to be insensitive to those affected by terrorism, but making everyone terribly frightened and upping security to incredible levels has more to do with taking an opportunity to increase control over people than genuine care for the population. IMO).

 

I just flew from NV to FL. Had to throw out my water, but the fingernail clippers that I forgot were in my purse came through without a problem. :001_huh:

[Heather in the Kootenays]

Transitting through Houstan from Central or South America is painful. I always thought we got treated badly because dh has a work visa allowing residence in the US but doesn't exercise that right. It seems to set them off every time. But perhaps I was taking it too personally.

[LizzyBee]

Never mind.

Edited October 18, 2008 by LizzyBee

[Laura Corin]

This is their computer system, not yours. Anything processed through their equipment.

 

But I have to declare a lot of personal data, which goes onto their computer system. They say that they may disclose these (not just store or use) without any further permission.

 

Laura

[JWSJ]

They say that they may disclose these (not just store or use) without any further permission.

 

So, you may be getting some extra sales catalogs in the mail...

 

At least you'll know where they got your name.

 

:tongue_smilie:

[TraceyS/FL]

They treat Americans that way too, especially if you're entering from Latin America. Going through passport control is about as friendly as getting a traffic ticket.

 

:iagree: And all i've done recently is fly from Orlando to Dulles.

 

Not a "happy lot" of workers....

[Jenny in Atl]

Never mind.

 

You might want to read this book. Many of the freedoms our troops are fighting for over in Iraq are being eroded away here at home.

 

Shadow Factory

 

History tells us it is dangerous not to question, and to trust everything your government tells you.

[LizzyBee]

You might want to read this book. Many of the freedoms our troops are fighting for over in Iraq are being eroded away here at home.

 

Shadow Factory

 

History tells us it is dangerous not to question, and to trust everything your government tells you.

 

Jenny,

 

The book does look interesting, and I am concerned (and have been since long before 9/11) about politicians on both sides of the aisle who are all too willing to curtail freedom in America. But I'm curious why you quoted me in your post. I wrote something, then decided after reading some other posts that it wasn't relevant after all, so I deleted it. That's the only significance of my "never mind." :)

[Catherine]

Your post does make me wonder what happens if you were to have a sudden family illness (in your ILs I mean). Would you simply be barred while the Department of Homeland Security "investigates"? I really hope this does not happen to you. I can't imagine how difficult that would be.

 

In the months after 9\11, my friend's Canadian DIL (she had been Canadian until she married an American citizen) and her American son and grandson visited DIL's family in Canada. DIL was detained at the border returning home and was unable to return to her home in the US for 11 months. Her 3 yo ds suffered during this time-he was simply too little to comprehend why his mommy was suddenly gone. She was never able to learn why she was refused entry to the US, and why the decision was ultimately changed. They truly feared she'd never be granted permission to return, and had begun plans to move the family to Canada. The little boy was taken home by his Dad because they all feared he'd not be recognized as an American citizen if he stayed with his mom, despite being born here to American parents. Police state indeed. It's scary.

[Mama Lynx]

Yes, welcome to America, where we fear socialized medicine "nanny state", but have no problems with the growing "police state". :tongue_smilie:

 

I fear all of the above.

[Mama Lynx]

No, they treat everyone that way. Americans too.

 

In general, American airport security workers seem to be stressed, harrassed and sullen. On the one hand, I can sympathize - dealing with the public all day makes me stressed and sullen too ;-) I'm not defending their attitudes, but I also know that they put up with an amazing amoung of crap from people. My BIL works airport security, and his stories would make you weep for our planet.

 

Though I agree that perhaps if they could be trained to be nicer to passengers in the first place, the general attitude of the passengers might change.

[Parrothead]

No, they treat everyone that way. Americans too.

 

It's not just the general public either. Dh works for a different branch of DHS. When we come back from Canada the Customs guys are rude. These are guys that know dh personally from work. They treat him like a possible criminal. I think they are trained that way.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Not rude. It's even the name of one our hockey teams.

 

Crappy hockey team... though. :tongue_smilie:

 

Dh and dd8 are going to see the Blackhawks play the Canucks tomorrow night. Glad to hear the 'Hawks have a chance.:001_smile:

Edited October 18, 2008 by dirty ethel rackham
misspelling

[asta]

Your post does make me wonder what happens if you were to have a sudden family illness (in your ILs I mean). Would you simply be barred while the Department of Homeland Security "investigates"? I really hope this does not happen to you. I can't imagine how difficult that would be.

 

In the months after 9\11, my friend's Canadian DIL (she had been Canadian until she married an American citizen) and her American son and grandson visited DIL's family in Canada. DIL was detained at the border returning home and was unable to return to her home in the US for 11 months. Her 3 yo ds suffered during this time-he was simply too little to comprehend why his mommy was suddenly gone. She was never able to learn why she was refused entry to the US, and why the decision was ultimately changed. They truly feared she'd never be granted permission to return, and had begun plans to move the family to Canada. The little boy was taken home by his Dad because they all feared he'd not be recognized as an American citizen if he stayed with his mom, despite being born here to American parents. Police state indeed. It's scary.

 

Curiousity: with the exception of Laura, who has lived in China, how many people here have ever even been to a police state, much less lived in one?

 

The United States of America, no matter how a person wants to parse it, even post 9/11 rules, is NOT a police state.

 

 

asta

[LMA]

Its interesting....a friend of mine has been traveling recently to Alaska, stopping off in NZ on the way home. She said that in America, the security system is hostile to foreigners- she and her family (dh and two kids) were made to feel virtually like criminals until proven innocent. She said it was very unpleasant going through security in America.

When they went into NZ, the personnel were very friendly and efficient- and discovered several prohibited things in their baggage which had also been in their baggage going into America, such as a small pair of scissors.

So the NZ security was friendly and actually worked, but the American security was unfriendly, over the top- and she felt, inefficient and more concerned with appearing to be doing something, than actually doing something.

.

 

Just so you know, 4 inch and smaller scissors are allowed on the planes in America. The list of prohibited items on planes vary from country to country and airline to airline. The American security workers did do their job in the screening of that item.

[Jenny in Atl]

Curiousity: with the exception of Laura, who has lived in China, how many people here have ever even been to a police state, much less lived in one?

 

The United States of America, no matter how a person wants to parse it, even post 9/11 rules, is NOT a police state.

 

 

asta

 

I've been to a couple police states, and yes, the USA is not one. But, a number things like the Patriot Act, Bank Secrecy Act, and other actions such as below, have helped us move in that direction. I've heard very few here jump up and down worried about these real and present dangers to the freedom we enjoy in this country.

 

 

October 26, 2006

 

In a stealth maneuver, President Bush has signed into law a provision which, according to Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont), will actually encourage the President to declare federal martial law (1). It does so by revising the Insurrection Act, a set of laws that limits the President's ability to deploy troops within the United States. The Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C.331 -335) has historically, along with the Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C.1385), helped to enforce strict prohibitions on military involvement in domestic law enforcement. With one cloaked swipe of his pen, Bush is seeking to undo those prohibitions."

 

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/109_PL_109-364.html

[TraceyS/FL]

Curiousity: with the exception of Laura, who has lived in China, how many people here have ever even been to a police state, much less lived in one?

 

The closest i feel i have come is in 1986, i was in Europe right after the bombings they had.

 

When the train crossed into Italy from France, the Police/Border Patrol/whatever they were boarded the train, machine guns and all and inspected EVERYONE'S "papers". Very complete, very nerve-wracking to go thru.

 

About a week later when leaving Rome, there was a bomb squad outside every entrance at the airport, inside where men with machine guns on the catwalks overhead watching every move.

 

2 images that have stuck with me for a long time.

 

i've never felt more safe in an airport!

[Melinda in VT]

The closest i feel i have come is in 1986, i was in Europe right after the bombings they had.

 

When the train crossed into Italy from France, the Police/Border Patrol/whatever they were boarded the train, machine guns and all and inspected EVERYONE'S "papers". Very complete, very nerve-wracking to go thru.

 

About a week later when leaving Rome, there was a bomb squad outside every entrance at the airport, inside where men with machine guns on the catwalks overhead watching every move.

 

2 images that have stuck with me for a long time.

 

i've never felt more safe in an airport!

 

Several years ago, I was visiting NYC and attended a church service at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine. We entered the church early, and spent time looking around before the service. The sermon was given by a high muckety-muck in the U.N., whose name and exact title are currently escaping me. When we exited, there were NYC SWAT team members stationed at the doors, machine guns and all.:001_huh:

[Donna T.]

I've heard very few here jump up and down worried about these real and present dangers to the freedom we enjoy in this country.

 

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/109_PL_109-364.html

 

 

It doesn't do any good. No one wants to believe that their "Christian"

Skull & Bones President would sell them out. I learned a long time ago that jumping up and down accomplished nothing. It's almost impossible to get the truth out. Everyone wants to believe that life as they know it is going to go on indefinately. All this new legislation since 9/11 has somehow made us "safer", "more secure", and more "peaceful". Hmmm...

 

Jesus said when they are saying "peace" and "safety"... that's when we need to beware. The Bible has the answers for all these things we are seeing. Unfortunately, "Christians" have perverted the true gospel of peace and made it a mandate for Dominion. As a result, we are rendered ineffective and we can't make a real impact. No one trusts us. And, really, why should they?

 

Can you tell this is my pet peeve?

[Catherine]

But police states don't just happen overnight. The fact is, as Jenny shows in the article she linked, President Bush has moved the USA closer to this status. Does anyone seriously doubt that this is true? The idea that an innocent person can be refused entry into their own land for 11 months, without any explanation, is a sign that for some small parts of our population are already experiencing the USA as less than democratic.

[Parrothead]

I've been to a couple police states, and yes, the USA is not one. But, a number things like the Patriot Act, Bank Secrecy Act, and other actions such as below, have helped us move in that direction. I've heard very few here jump up and down worried about these real and present dangers to the freedom we enjoy in this country.

 

:iagree: Not that I've lived in a police state, but the other things you said are things that scare me. There was an executive order signed in the last year that made it illegal to store more than a week's worth of food. For the life of me I can't find it again. That is scary to me.

[Ria]

I'm sorry if this bothers you, but a lot of innocent people died here a while back. Given that it is the desire of certain terrorist organizations to destroy the United States, I have no problem at all with the government stepping up security. Yes, it's inconvenient. Had 9-11 not happened, it would still be easy to get into the US. Events happened, and things have changed. That's the way it is. And if those regulations stop a terrorist, or help catch one, great!

 

Ria

[JennifersLost]

The border stuff does drive me nuts. This time when we entered the US we had to stop, park and get our car searched. They took our purses and wallets, and then took every last bill and TRAVELLERS CHECK out, asked how much we'd brought and then proceeded to count ALL OF IT. There were two or three guards doing this - we couldn't even tell if they were pocketing any of it or not.

 

Dh and I had each brought what we needed, and since we budget things in different categories we had all these different amounts and neither one of us knew what the total was. And after two days on the road neither of us could add, either. We kept trying to add it up because the guard kept asking how much we'd brought. Then he tried to add it up and he couldn't get it straight, either. What a farce!