Have we talked about this? banning plastic grocery bags

[MEmama]

Am I the only one with Flesh for Lulu's Plastic Fantastic stuck in my head now?

[Arcadia]

I don't live in California. I do agree they create so much waste, but I also prefer them for certain foods like raw meat or chicken. .

We have the plastic bag ban for a few years already in many California cities. So it is kind of like business as usual.

 

For raw meat and also for vegetables, there are mini-rolls (plastic bags without handles) for you to bag those. Then there are paper towels near the raw meat area for you to wipe your hands after bagging the shrink wrapped raw meat into the mini-roll.

 

Trader Joes paper bags aren't great if you walk home from the grocers as the handle breaks. It is okay if you drive or TJ is very near your home.

 

After the plastic ban in my city and nearby cities, many just use the mini-rolls if they forgot to bring a reusable bag. Many in my area just drive instead of walk to the grocers because they can just put everything in the trunk from the cart without using reusable bags.

 

I have three grocers within walking distance. If I didn't have a reusable bag with me, I just text my hubby what I want that happen to be on sale and he will make a pit stop there on his way home to get for me. I like raw food in a bag, ice cream in another bag, bread in another bag, dry rations in another bag. So I bring 4/5 bags for grocery shopping or I make daily trips and buy a food category per trip.

 

Many of us reuse the plastic shopping bags for household thrash instead of buying Hefty trash bags. So I just see condo neighbors using Hefty for thrash when they ran out of plastic shopping bags.

 

Some places charge for paper bags but some don't. It depends on the stores.

 

We also have amazon marketplace and google's market delivering in our area. We are in the Amazon Prime 2hr delivery zone.

 

I think the state ban takes effect after Black Friday but people have been doing lots of shopping online anyway. I could be at a Target store near my home, see something I want and buy online while at the store so that it gets delivered to my doorstep. So online shopping has lessen my need to worry about bringing enough reusable bags when walking to a shop but gives me lots of cardboard boxes to recycle.

 

ETA:

The mini-rolls which people just reuse as trash bag http://www.crownpoly.com/storewide-bagging-solutions/mini-roll/

Edited November 17, 2016 by Arcadia

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't want to force people to use cloth diapers.  My way works for me.  I am perfectly happy to let others do things their way and have no desire to try to ban disposable diapers or wipes or plates etc. 

 

Yeah and I imagine a lot of day care centers would say no flipping way to that.

[stephanier.1765]

I wouldn't mind if my state adopted this. At least then the grocery store clerks would stop giving me the evil eye every time I bring in my own bags.

[SparklyUnicorn]

A compromise would be for me to use the reusable except on the meat.  Then I'd be less wigged out over how dirty the bags get.  And that would leave me with enough bags to use for something else (litter boxes in particular). 

 

I do like the bin thing idea though.  I need to look around for something like that.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I wouldn't mind if my state adopted this. At least then the grocery store clerks would stop giving me the evil eye every time I bring in my own bags.

 

I agree.  I don't like drawing attention to myself.  I don't like listening to people hem and haw over it.  It happens.  I know it's stupid and I should not care, but I just don't like that kind of negativity directed at me.  This is why I like Aldi because I can do it how I want and it's normal there.  They don't have everything I want there though.

[Liz CA]

You get the evil eye when you bring your own bag???

I've been bringing my own bags for a few years now so this won't impact me in any major way.

[Um_2_4]

I live in an area of CA that did not have a city/county level ban before. Many stores here have already started implementing it as of last weekend. I use reusable bags, but sometimes I used to forget, but now I have to remember. And the one store where they used to look at me like I had two heads when I brought in my own bags, now has to use them :). So I'm happy.

The cashiers told me some people are complaining because they did not realize it would kick in so fast.

 

I do plan to sew myself a few more of various sizes. I saw designs to use old tshirts. I have super big ones, small ones for bread, eggs, or the like and bins for milk, heavy items.

[hornblower]

obvious hornblower saying obvious things: all of you so squigged out over the germs on your meat could just stop buying meat. Because ewwww grossss.  :P  

/yes, that's a page torn out from my vegan agenda. I have so many agendas it's hard to keep track: feminist agenda, environmental agenda, gay rights agenda, leftist agenda.... / 

 

[frugalmamatx]

I'd be upset if they banned them here - I'm currently collecting all the bags I can get for using to stuff outdoor chair cushions!

[Murphy101]

The problem is people think if they are recycling, they are being environmentally friendly.

 

But it is about as friendly as smokers being kind enough to put their cig remains in a tray instead of tossing it on the ground. Better? Yes. Good? Well not near as much as just not smoking.

 

If we could also get rid of plastic ziplock bags, paper bags..

 

Reduce

Reuse

And if those can't be done, then recycle.

 

Most places I shop don't use bags. SAMs Costco, Aldi's, fresh markets...

 

I keep two big insulated reusable bags and a bunch of book bag sized bags all stuffed into one of the big bags in the back of my van so I don't forget them. After groceries are put away, back to the trunk the empty bags go. It's really not that big a deal. We've done it for years.

 

I do reuse the few plastic bags I get as small trash can liners. But I wouldn't buy bags if I didn't have them. I'd just make the trash chore emptying all the cans and add the need for wiping them down once a month or so.

 

For that matter, garbage bags are the same problem and we don't really need them. It's just to avoid cleaning out the cans. Which I admit is a nasty chore I'm happy to do without.

 

I did cloth diapers with my middle 2 boys. It wasn't that big a deal and it worked out for our situation at the time.. But I have no desire to do it again. However, I do think affordable more environmentally friendly disposables would be well received. Right now they are very expensive compared to the diapers I buy at SAMs or Aldi's.

[SparklyUnicorn]

You get the evil eye when you bring your own bag???

I've been bringing my own bags for a few years now so this won't impact me in any major way.

 

Yes.  The evil eye.  The "how do I deal with your bags" attitude.  The customers behind me who hem and haw. 

 

And then there is Walmart which basically makes it impossible.  They don't have a place to actually bag.  It's set up to put stuff from the belt into a bag. 

 

Although there is one store in the city that I do sometimes go to and they aren't bad about it.  They even pay you 10 cents per bag they use that you have brought. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

obvious hornblower saying obvious things: all of you so squigged out over the germs on your meat could just stop buying meat. Because ewwww grossss.   :p  

 

/yes, that's a page torn out from my vegan agenda. I have so many agendas it's hard to keep track: feminist agenda, environmental agenda, gay rights agenda, leftist agenda.... / 

 

 

 

I eat low carb and vegan isn't low carb.  I consider how I eat to be very healthy so you telling me to change that...nope.

 

That's my low carb agenda.  :laugh:

[Murphy101]

Meat is a simple problem to solve. If the package is loose or leaking - politely ask the butcher to take it in back and rewrap it. Also, I keep a few old but clean rags in the van for life messes, so I'll toss one under the meats just in case. If it leaks, I'll just put the rag in the wash.

[frugalmamatx]

I also want to say I am all  :lol: over how many people in this thread say "well it's just so easy to keep bags in your trunk, etc"

 

Some of us take public transit lol or walk - both of which are also great for the environment. But it does make it harder to have your bags with you

[Murphy101]

Yes. The evil eye. The "how do I deal with your bags" attitude. The customers behind me who hem and haw.

 

And then there is Walmart which basically makes it impossible. They don't have a place to actually bag. It's set up to put stuff from the belt into a bag.

 

Although there is one store in the city that I do sometimes go to and they aren't bad about it. They even pay you 10 cents per bag they use that you have brought.

Wait. You make everyone wait for your bags to be sorted and for the cashier to bag it for you? THAT is why you are getting the evil eye. Lol

 

I just tell them to put it all back in the cart (like they do at SAMs and Aldi's anyways) and I'll bag it myself. Much quicker for everyone.

[regentrude]

I also want to say I am all  :lol: over how many people in this thread say "well it's just so easy to keep bags in your trunk, etc"

Some of us take public transit lol or walk - both of which are also great for the environment. But it does make it harder to have your bags with you

 

But elsewhere in the developed world people walk to do their shopping all the time and manage to take reusable bags. I am puzzled how this is a great hardship. 

In Germany, I always have a cotton bag stashed in my purse for unplanned purchases; if we go shopping specifically, we just take a larger tote with some bags in it. Usually shopping on foot, one does not do one huge weekly purchase, but smaller more frequent shopping trips. OTOH, I have shopped with a backpack when I took the bus to a specific out of the way store and stocked up.

 

Seriously, people manage. Every single person in my family and in a long line of ancestors managed shopping without plastic bags when they were walking to the store. As do millions of people every day. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

Wait. You make everyone wait for your bags to be sorted and for the cashier to bag it for you? THAT is why you are getting the evil eye. Lol

 

I just tell them to put it all back in the cart (like they do at SAMs and Aldi's anyways) and I'll bag it myself. Much quicker for everyone.

 

No.  I never said that.  Where would I bag it?  Unless they have an area I can pull off to the side, that is not happening.  I'm talking about places that have baggers.  Everyone here has baggers except Aldi and Price Rite. 

[Murphy101]

I also want to say I am all :lol: over how many people in this thread say "well it's just so easy to keep bags in your trunk, etc"

 

Some of us take public transit lol or walk - both of which are also great for the environment. But it does make it harder to have your bags with you

No it doesn't. It just means you have to remember them and plan ahead.

 

Something that might be neat to try.

 

If there was. Give a bag, get a bag program at stores people such as yourself on transit frequent. If you bring a bag, you get a ticket or whatever for how many bags you brought. And the next time you come, you can get so many reusable bags without charge. That way frequent customers don't have to worry about forgetting their bags. And people could just buy them too of course.

 

Idk if it'd work or not, but it's an idea.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I also want to say I am all  :lol: over how many people in this thread say "well it's just so easy to keep bags in your trunk, etc"

 

Some of us take public transit lol or walk - both of which are also great for the environment. But it does make it harder to have your bags with you

 

Someone here told me about these super tiny folding bag things.  I don't need that because I don't walk to food stores. 

I do admit I have trouble remembering to bring my bags.  So I try to just keep a supply of bags in my trunk.  I still forget.  Not sure why.

[idnib]

I live in CA and am glad they are banned statewide. My county already banned them some time ago, and it really hasn't been a big deal.

 

Not to get too political but to address the fact that the statewide ban didn't pass by a large margin, there was another (distractor) proposition put onto the ballot by plastic bag manufacturers. The idea was that grocers could still use them and an environmental fund would be set up by the state. (The Mercury News (San Jose paper) called it the most disingenuous initiative ever placed on the CA ballot.) Anyway, I think some people who liked the idea of an environmental fund would have voted for the ban had the distractor not been on the ballot. You can read more about them here:

 

Prop 65 (with environmental fund)

 

Prop 67 (plastic bag ban)

[SparklyUnicorn]

No it doesn't. It just means you have to remember them and plan ahead.

 

Something that might be neat to try.

 

If there was. Give a bag, get a bag program at stores people such as yourself on transit frequent. If you bring a bag, you get a ticket or whatever for how many bags you brought. And the next time you come, you can get so many reusable bags without charge. That way frequent customers don't have to worry about forgetting their bags. And people could just buy them too of course.

 

Idk if it'd work or not, but it's an idea.

 

That's a clever idea.  But a rather gross one if they don't wash them.

Yes, I insist on clean bags.  LOL

[Murphy101]

No. I never said that. Where would I bag it? Unless they have an area I can pull off to the side, that is not happening. I'm talking about places that have baggers. Everyone here has baggers except Aldi and Price Rite.

It's not hard. I do it right next to the cart. I open a bag, fill it, set it in the cart and repeat until all that's left in the cart are filled bags. Or I do it at my trunk.

 

If they have baggers, then I hand the bagger my bags and it's no big deal. He opens it and fills it same as he would a store bag. *confused*

[Charlie]

I also want to say I am all  :lol: over how many people in this thread say "well it's just so easy to keep bags in your trunk, etc"

 

Some of us take public transit lol or walk - both of which are also great for the environment. But it does make it harder to have your bags with you

 

Generally I use heavy duty cotton bags and keep them in the trunk of my car, but I always carry one or two Chico bags in my purse for a spontaneous trip to Target or something. They compact to about the size of a fist, carry quite a bit, and my favorite part, the handles are long enough you can sling it over your shoulder like a tote. This frees up your hands for more bags and makes walking easier.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Charlie

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's not hard. I do it right next to the cart. I open a bag, fill it, set it in the cart and repeat until all that's left in the cart are filled bags. Or I do it at my trunk.

 

If they have baggers, then I hand the bagger my bags and it's no big deal. He opens it and fills it same as he would a store bag. *confused*

 

The places I go have just enough room to fit one cart past the registers.  You can't pull off to the side. 

 

Yes I'm confused too.  But they get all weird about it.  And a lot of them stick the stuff in plastic bags and put the plastic bags into the reusable bags!  I've had that happen several times.

[Murphy101]

I'm always amused by these topics. Bc to hear the media, people like me are these awful planet killers bc we have so many kids.

 

But I look around and we use a lot less then everyone around us. Other than TP, Kleenex, disposable diapers, and wipes - I don't buy any paper products. (Well wait. Other than writing paper.) and I've used cloth diapers and wipes before.

 

We have one garbage can picked up twice a week and it's rare that it is overflowing. All our smaller family neighbor's have two to three and often overflowing.

 

We literally can't afford to pollute, planet be damned or not. lol

 

Case in point, when stores charge for bags, I think people or at least people in my income bracket, seem to have far less problem remembering to bring their bags.

[nrg]

I live in California and our county has banned plastic bags for the last few years. I still manage to enter stores with my reusable bags firmly ensconced in the back of my car, but, by and large, it is easy to make the adjustment and better for the planet. My biggest adjustment had to do with the cats' litter box cleaning.

 

That said, I am not so sure about micromanagement on this scale. It boggles the mind to imagine all of the things we do which are not ideal and how many laws we might pass to correct ourselves.

 

Meanwhile, we certainly have larger issues to consider right now.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I support a ban on plastic shopping bags nationwide. It was a bad move to replace our cotton bags, paper sacks, and boxes with petroleum throwaway bags. We didn't used to do it, we were fine, we've only done it for a little while, we can totally stop now...

 

as far as logistics, here's what I do (one mistake people make is thinking it all has to be bags in the first place):

 

I always carry a tote-style purse which is often all I need if I'm out and unexpectedly buy something,

 

Keep a collapsible rolling cart for small items at multiple shops, if I'm stopping at a shopping district,

 

Put a laundry basket in a little red wagon if I'm living in town and walking to the grocery store,

 

Put a laundry basket in the back of the van if I'm driving to the store.

 

 

 

With a rolling cart, laundry basket, or cardboard box, you don't need to bag everything. Just put the items in your container.

 

I don't like to fool with a lot of washable bags. They have their place, but my first thought is, "Why does everything go in a bag?" I'd rather use a box or a basket when possible; they are easier to wipe out and quicker to pack with groceries.

 

 

[TechWife]

I don't sew, and unless you can tare the scale to the weight of an empty bag (at least an ounce or two), you're overpaying. If our grocery stores here had the scales where I could print the tags right there it would be much easier (loose veggies on scale, tag printed, then veggies put in mesh bag), but I don't see the point of paying more on this issue.

There are many produce bags available for purchase that have the tare weight noted on them. The cashier subtracts the tare weight from the scale before the item is purchased.

 

Here is one example:

https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Ecology-Organic-Cotton-Produce/dp/B004UJ0U0C

[Murphy101]

The places I go have just enough room to fit one cart past the registers. You can't pull off to the side.

 

Yes I'm confused too. But they get all weird about it. And a lot of them stick the stuff in plastic bags and put the plastic bags into the reusable bags! I've had that happen several times.

I suspect the plastic bags into cloth is bc they mentally went into autopilot and were too lazy too hurried to unbag it and put it in the cloth bag.

 

But I'd complain. Nicely at first. Then I'd get annoyed and shop elsewhere if possible or tell them to not bag it, just put it in the cart and I'll do it myself.

 

There's got to be somewhere a customer can pull aside after buying to take 5 minutes to adjust the bags and such. If there wasn't, I'd do it next to where the carts are returned or at my car.

 

But I do hate what I call "cattle chute" checkouts. It's still not hard for me to load my own bags, but I just hate being herded and crowded like that in general.

[Murphy101]

I live in California and our county has banned plastic bags for the last few years. I still manage to enter stores with my reusable bags firmly ensconced in the back of my car, but, by and large, it is easy to make the adjustment and better for the planet. My biggest adjustment had to do with the cats' litter box cleaning.

 

That said, I am not so sure about micromanagement on this scale. It boggles the mind to imagine all of the things we do which are not ideal and how many laws we might pass to correct ourselves.

 

Meanwhile, we certainly have larger issues to consider right now.

I have two cats and one huge liter box. We've never needed plastic bags for it? We take it to the main lined trash (in my house that's in the garage which is right next to the bathroom where the liter box is kept under the sink) to scoop every morning and we use a liter scooper to do it.

[Murphy101]

The whole gotta have a plastic bag for produce concept is bizzare to me.

 

Y'all know that stuff grew in dirt on or under the ground, right? It ain't gonna get tainted by directly touching your boxed cereal or cloth bag. And even if it did, it's supposed to be washed before use regardless anyways.

 

Also, eggs come out a chicken butthole. But we don't wash them prior to use after buying at the store. Go figure that logic.

 

😜

[TechWife]

I'm going to go out on a limb here. Just because a care label says something shouldn't be washed and/or dried in a particular manner doesn't mean you can't do it. You may reduce the lifespan of an item, and in the case of cotton, you may loose some size, but those are things most people in the developed world can work around.

[MSNative]

Our city provides recycling pickup service. Our taxes pay for it but it sure does encourage recycling.

 

I hate mandatory garbage limits. Our family and friends in Boulder deals with that and they all just take trash and dump it in random dumpsters. They hosted a big neighborhood party and they woudl all share where the best dumpsters were. Sigh.

 

Public transport- When we lived overseas we had little bags that folded up into tiny pouches. I kept a few in my purse. Easy to pop out when needed and super light when not needed.

 

Rather than banning plastic bags I like the idea of simply charging for them. It would certainly incentivize people to use their reuseable bags. It would be interesting to see what kind of impact that could make.

 

I use my reusable bags when I shop to help keep track of sales. My store offers a lot of 10 for 10 deals or buy 4 and save mix and match type things. I put the items in my reusable bag and then close it when I've hit the appropriate number of items. Makes it so much easier to keep track of.

 

Thanks for the crate rec. def looking into that.

[regentrude]

Also, let's remember that banning the free shopping plastic bags does not mean banning all plastic packaging in general. Even shopping with reusable bags, we acquire a lot of plastic bags that can be used for trash etc: bagged apples,carrots, potatoes. I just emptied a bag of rice into the storage container and acquired a nice zip loc bag. Sometimes a person brings something to the house and leaves a plastic bag. Sometimes the teens get takeout and, gasp, get a bag. I put meat into the flimsy bags and reuse them for trash.

I have been using reusable bags for years and have not needed to purchase extra bags for trash cans etc; somehow, there are still enough bags floating around and coming our way. 

[regentrude]

Also, eggs come out a chicken butthole. But we don't wash them prior to use after buying at the store. Go figure that logic.

 

 

Actually, most eggs sold in the US are washed before they come into the store - a practice that is illegal in many European countries because it damages the protective coating and lets bacteria more easily invade the egg. Washing is actually counter productive, LOL. That's also the reason why eggs are refrigerated in the US, while they are sold and stored at room temperature in Europe.

 

ETA: On the produce: I sometimes bag because the stuff is dripping wet since they spray greens to keep them fresh.

Edited November 17, 2016 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm going to go out on a limb here. Just because a care label says something shouldn't be washed and/or dried in a particular manner doesn't mean you can't do it. You may reduce the lifespan of an item, and in the case of cotton, you may loose some size, but those are things most people in the developed world can work around.

 

Oh I've tried it.  Some that say you can wash by hand I've put in the hand wash setting of the washer.  I would be rougher with it if I washed it by hand.  The bag was falling apart after one wash.

[Murphy101]

My frustration with charging instead of banning is it basicly gives permission for those with more money to pollute as they always have and adds hardship for the lower classes who can't afford to.

 

One of the benefits of *limited* banning in *some situations* is it makes alternate means more widely accepted and more affordable for everyone.

 

It's not like they are saying ban all plastics everywhere. Just in an aspect that is an obvious common problem. It's not likely that I see a sandwich bag stuck in a tree or clogging a gutter, but those dang grocery bags are littered every where in just about all towns.

[lailasmum]

I also want to say I am all [emoji38] over how many people in this thread say "well it's just so easy to keep bags in your trunk, etc"

 

Some of us take public transit lol or walk - both of which are also great for the environment. But it does make it harder to have your bags with you

I've been through long phases of walking to get groceries. I used a huge rucksack plus a wheeled basket. Carrying loaded plastic shopping bags is not that easy over any distance.

[Murphy101]

Actually, most eggs sold in the US are washed before they come into the store - a practice that is illegal in many European countries because it damages the protective coating and lets bacteria more easily invade the egg. Washing is actually counter productive, LOL. That's also the reason why eggs are refrigerated in the US, while they are sold and stored at room temperature in Europe.

 

ETA: On the produce: I sometimes bag because the stuff is dripping wet since they spray greens to keep them fresh.

Yes, but so are the produce items bought in US stores. Otherwise we would be bagging dirt clod covered onions and carrots. And yet. We aren't. And yet we are still supposed to wash them before use.

[marbel]

I just want everyone to know I went to the grocery store and the pharmacy today and took my bags.  No plastic bags entered my home this day.  

 

:lol:

[Guest]

I'm opposed. I like plastic.

[Murphy101]

Ultimately, this is part of the reason that I am not convinced that banning plastic grocery bags is really going to do much. There's usually more plastic IN the plastic grocery bags, in the form of the bag the frozen shrimp comes in, the plastic shrink wrap around the pork, the wrapping around the lettuce, mushrooms, etc etc. Most weeks, I come home maybe one bag from Marsh, one or two from Kroger, 4 plastic milk jugs from Aldi, and then maybe 5 to 10 bags from Meijer. But inside each of those bags are several items wrapped or bagged in plastic.

That makes no sense.

 

Because plastic is used at all, very limited banning if a known problem plastic item is pointless?

 

I disagree.

 

That's like saying because I use disposable diapers and Kleenex there's no point in my not buying paper plates and napkins and towels and more. Yes there is. REDUCE is the first in 'reduce, reuse, recycle' for a good reason. It's the most important and best solution as a starting premise.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Ultimately, this is part of the reason that I am not convinced that banning plastic grocery bags is really going to do much.  There's usually more plastic IN the plastic grocery bags, in the form of the bag the frozen shrimp comes in, the plastic shrink wrap around the pork, the wrapping around the lettuce, mushrooms, etc etc.  Most weeks, I come home maybe one bag from Marsh, one or two from Kroger, 4 plastic milk jugs from Aldi, and then maybe 5 to 10 bags from Meijer. But inside each of those bags are several items wrapped or bagged in plastic. 

 

Not sure of your logic here...if there's too much other plastic, then we could either give in and go full petroleum as a defeatist response, or we could start to dial back where we can...I mean, don't say, "But there's still plastic, so you aren't really doing anything." Yes, we are. We're no longer using petroleum for single use shopping bags. Get that fixed, and then discuss why we're shrinkwrapping all the mushrooms...

 

here's the difference it makes. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-plastic-bag-bans-work/

[Murphy101]

Also, I get annoyed all why the heck so much stuff sold at the store is wrapped in plastic and then put inside a box for some dumb reason. I speculate that sometimes it's to make sure the plastic doesn't get punctured? But it's still annoying to me.

[Spryte]

We bring bags. It's such a small thing, it's not going to save the world, but every tiny bit helps. I try to buy items with less packaging, but that feels futile sometimes.

 

We live on a beautiful pond. Fishing plastic bags out of it makes me sad. When I think of the tiny microcosm that our pond is, and the sheer numbers of bags that are flying through the air (I see them every day!)... ugh! Maybe it wouldn't be so obvious if our area was less populated.

 

So, yes, I support any measure that reduces bag use.

[idnib]

Ultimately, this is part of the reason that I am not convinced that banning plastic grocery bags is really going to do much.  There's usually more plastic IN the plastic grocery bags, in the form of the bag the frozen shrimp comes in, the plastic shrink wrap around the pork, the wrapping around the lettuce, mushrooms, etc etc.  Most weeks, I come home maybe one bag from Marsh, one or two from Kroger, 4 plastic milk jugs from Aldi, and then maybe 5 to 10 bags from Meijer. But inside each of those bags are several items wrapped or bagged in plastic. 

 

Why the false dilemma? If you don't think there should be a ban, just say that. But it's a fallacy to say that nothing should happen because it's only a partial solution. Some people don't overhaul their budget all at once, they start by making their own coffee instead of going to Starbucks before work each day.

[theelfqueen]

obvious hornblower saying obvious things: all of you so squigged out over the germs on your meat could just stop buying meat. Because ewwww grossss.   :p  

 

/yes, that's a page torn out from my vegan agenda. I have so many agendas it's hard to keep track: feminist agenda, environmental agenda, gay rights agenda, leftist agenda.... / 

 

 

 

What are you doing tearing pages out -- WASTEFUL.

[hornblower]

What are you doing tearing pages out -- WASTEFUL.

 

:lol:

[SparklyUnicorn]

What are you doing tearing pages out -- WASTEFUL.

 

not unless she eats them...and they would be vegan