Co-op students want to come to half of classes--WWYD?

[Harriet Vane]

I teach literature at a local co-op. We meet once a week for an hour per class, and students work at home throughout the week.

 

I have a degree in English with a double major in Rhetoric. I also teach online. I mention this only because I want to be clear that the classes I teach are beefy. Our discussions are not simply what we liked/disliked about the book. We identify literature elements and we analyze in depth. Though it's only an hour per week, I use that time specifically to coach students so they are able to do the analysis and identification of elements at home as they annotate the text or write papers.

 

Two high school students have approached me with a request to attend only part of the time:

 

--Guy wants to come every other week, meaning he would attend class 50% of the time. He would do all the regular homework. The weeks he is absent would be spent at a different co-op doing a two-hour science class/lab. My initial response is to say no because he would only get half the instruction, and the instruction I give is already very little time at only an hour per week. 

 

--Former student wants to miss my class once per month to go to a science class/lab. In other words, she would be in my class 75% of the time. She would do all the regular homework. Hesitating with this one. 

 

 

I am concerned about the slippery slope--I don't want multiple students attending class infrequently. I am also not crazy about ideas such as skyping students in--typically I allow that only if a regular student is home sick that day. As much as I might say I will not do anything extra and they are responsible to get what they missed from other students, I know I will end up doing extra work. Given how little co-ops pay, I am reluctant to take on extra arrangements. 

 

I am also concerned about saying no to one student and yes to another.

 

What would you do?

[klmama]

I'd be consistent and say no to both.  Sorry, kids, but choices like this have to be made all the time.  Either attend the lit class every week, or attend the lab every week.  I'd probably suggest they take a look at Landry Academy and other online providers to find a substitute for one or the other.    

 

ETA:  I had an experience a few years ago teaching at a co-op which made me realize that trying to be flexible about situations like this meant more work for me and more frustration for everyone in the class.  I'm done with that.  Students need to pick their activities and then keep their commitments.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by klmama

[FriedClams]

I don't co-op because I'm not willing to commit to someone else's schedule. I feel that the teacher is committed and put in a lot of time, and I need to make sure my family is reciprocating. I'd say no, and with no guilt. Part of being in a co-op is preparing for outside classes, and I know of very few that would allow that. Even my kids in Landry classes (which are all recorded) struggle if they miss a class. So no. Not a chance.

[kiwik]

If it was once every 6 weeks maybe but definitely not every second week and in this case I think you have to decline both.

[G5052]

This is one of the many reasons that I stopped teaching paid academic classes to homeschoolers in my area. The list of accommodations the parents requested that were NOT related to learning or health challenges was a mile long. If I said no, they'd tell all their friends, which maybe wasn't a bad because then the friends knew my standards. It still hurt though.

 

With one class, I used to give the National Latin Exam, and the heat I took from that was unexpected. I had a parent that wanted it given open book and another wanted it untimed so her daughter wouldn't be stressed. This is a national exam where the proctor signs a long list of rules they followed that go in with the tests. When the scores came back, some of them blamed me.

 

When my own children were no longer taking local classes, I retired from that. I've done a few enrichment classes since, but nothing academic.

 

I periodically toy with teaching grade school kids with a friend who does a science club because we could split the rent and the parents could get multiple classes in a day. No grades handed out.

 

If I was teaching high schoolers locally still, I'd say no. A face-to-face class requires consistent attendance.

 

I used to teach at the local community college and frankly sometimes I dreaded teaching homeschooled kids there. There a syllabus is considered a legal document, and the state system doesn't cover you legally if you go off-syllabus and are sued. They'd try the same thing. I'd even have parents calling me at home begging for me to accept work that was way overdue and to offer exam retakes. If they didn't back down, I'd tell them to set up an appointment with my dean and I. She was an older lady with quite a presence and would stare them down about how they were doing their child a disservice. Only one ever did that, and he left very subdued.

 

Maybe you could tell them that you run an academic class like they'll take in college where that sort of thing won't fly!

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by G5052

[craftymama]

I don't teach and my kiddos have never been in a coop, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I would say no.  Decisions must be made, not everyone can do everything, and if you can't be at the class as scheduled then you shouldn't sign up for the class.  

[mom2att]

I teach high school history at our co-op, so I know the work that goes into teaching an academically oriented class. I would say no to both parties because it's not fair to you or to the other students. If they are missing class regularly they will need to catch up on that information somewhere, probably by asking you outside of class or by seeking notes from other students. My mindset on teaching high school classes is to prepare the students for college. If a college student had a scheduling conflict for two classes, s/he would not go to the professor of one class and ask to miss regularly--a choice would have to be made. Same here--make a choice, student.

 

BTW your class sounds great and your co-op is fortunate to have you :-)

[DawnM]

Our co-op had policies about missing and this would never be allowed.

 

Homeschoolers are notorious for asking for special accommodations.  I have taught classes.  One family is still mad at me, even though I sent home a sheet that THEY SIGNED saying they agreed to the attendance requirement or they wouldn't get credit for it.  Their boys showed up when they felt like it until I told them they couldn't come back and showed them the form that they and their parents signed.  I got emails, phone calls, they went to the person in charge to complain, etc......

 

But I can guarantee you word got around and people didn't sign up if they knew they wouldn't be able to commit because they knew I wasn't doing special favors for this one and not that one.  And people appreciated that for the most part.

 

I think you need to have a policy that is straightforward and stick to it.  

[Haiku]

I would say no. If two classes conflict, people have to make choices.

[Janeway]

Can you change the time of the class?

[Rebel Yell]

Can you change the time of the class?

What about the other students signed up for the class? If my child chose this class over other options and then the time was changed to suit the two who couldn't make the same commitment my child did, I would be absolutely enraged. Even if a different time was chosen and it worked OK for us, I'd still be mad. Maybe my kids could have done the other options too but now we can't because we signed up for the co-op class and other deadlines have passed.

 

So, NO.

[KungFuPanda]

Why would anyone sign up for a class expecting to miss 25-50% of the time? I'd say no. This specific class is not a requirement and if they cannot attend it's on them to homeschool the class for the credits or find a co-op class they can attend. They'd fail if they attempted this at a community college. A weekly class time commitment is already low enough and you'll need all that time with the students. Sick days and snow days are tough enough to juggle in this situation. I'd create a clear attendance policy for when you get this question again in the future.

[Lisa R.]

I think homeschoolers give themselves a bad name when they want to join a group and then expect individual accommodations. Being in a class is being part of a group. If people want to tailor everything individually, then don't join a group. These kids might be in for some  embarrassing conversations when (if) they go to college and expect teachers to work around them. These parents really aren't setting up their kids for reality.

 

Say NO. Please. It's a class. Everyone comes at the same time. You're a professional. People who don't respect this might not fit in well with your other (reasonable) class expectations. 

[Dmmetler]

I think homeschoolers give themselves a bad name when they want to join a group and then expect individual accommodations. Being in a class is being part of a group. If people want to tailor everything individually, then don't join a group. These kids might be in for some embarrassing conversations when (if) they go to college and expect teachers to work around them. These parents really aren't setting up their kids for reality.

 

Say NO. Please. It's a class. Everyone comes at the same time. You're a professional. People who don't respect this might not fit in well with your other (reasonable) class expectations.

Say "no". Please, I beg of you. My DD is in a science lab this semester where the time was changed at the last minute because a parent "discovered" a conflict with another class. This is someone who tends to sign up for a lot of things, over commit, and then start snowing up infrequently if at all towards the end of October. Her discovered conflict made one for DD-but since an academic class, to me, trumps an extra cheer/tumbling class, I changed her schedule to accommodate. But it still rankles.

[DawnM]

What about the other students signed up for the class? If my child chose this class over other options and then the time was changed to suit the two who couldn't make the same commitment my child did, I would be absolutely enraged. Even if a different time was chosen and it worked OK for us, I'd still be mad. Maybe my kids could have done the other options too but now we can't because we signed up for the co-op class and other deadlines have passed.

 

So, NO.

 

 

This happened to a local Latin class.  People are still talking about it a year later.  Some had to drop.

 

It was all for two students who couldn't be accommodated during the times they had for the last 5 or so years!

 

I would be upset too.

[Harriet Vane]

Thanks for the consensus! I feel validated. I will stand my ground for both students. 

[cintinative]

I'd be consistent and say no to both.  Sorry, kids, but choices like this have to be made all the time.  Either attend the lit class every week, or attend the lab every week.  I'd probably suggest they take a look at Landry Academy and other online providers to find a substitute for one or the other.    

 

ETA:  I had an experience a few years ago teaching at a co-op which made me realize that trying to be flexible about situations like this meant more work for me and more frustration for everyone in the class.  I'm done with that.  Students need to pick their activities and then keep their commitments.

 

I agree with this. You have made a commitment to do the hard work of preparing for and teaching the class and they in turn need to make the commitment to be there as often as health allows.  There can be no happy ending to people missing your class that often. I would just encourage them to wait for another season to take your class or try an online class that will allow them more flexibility.  Allowing kids to float in and out of a class harms the class dynamic which IMO is important in a class like this.

[G5052]

Thanks for the consensus! I feel validated. I will stand my ground for both students. 

 

A dean I worked for at the local community college used to talk a lot about academic integrity. Expect them to perform, tell them exactly what you expect, and stick to your guns when you know that you're being reasonable and have their best interests at heart. She said that sort of thing over and over. I was broken-hearted when she retired. 

 

They reorganized and put me under someone who was her complete opposite. In my last semester there I made several choices that my previous dean would have supported 100%. When I ran them by my new dean, she said those choices would get me fired. I went forward because they were the right choices for the students and didn't violate academic integrity. I spent the whole semester counting down the weeks to see what would happen! I never did hear from my dean and told them not to renew my contract after I put my grades in that December. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by G5052

[zoobie]

I might let them audit the class, but I wouldn't give them credit for it.

 

What would you do?

 

Agreeing with everyone else, I would stick to my guns, and say no.

 

I would, though, at least thank the students (or their parents?) for having the common courtesy to ask you beforehand, and not just sign up, and come in with an entitled attitude that because they have paid (peanuts, probably) for the class, they get to make the rules.

[Loowit]

I would just say no.  They won't get much out of it by missing so much, and it isn't fair to you and the rest of the students.

 

However, I will disagree with other posters, this is not a homeschooler problem.  It is a societal one.  I know a number of teachers in the local schools and parents are trying to bend the rules all the time and get special treatment for their children.  In those cases often the principal will side with the parent and the teacher has no support.

[momacacia]

No. Sorry. Your class doesn't seem to work for their schedule.

[Ravin]

I would say no.

[gardenmom5]

nope. sorry.  nice they like science, too bad the classes conflict. (btdt, it sucks) notice they are both suggesting missing a lit class for science . . . . are they willing to skip science to attend your class?  no?  kinda double standard they have there. . . .

[Dmmetler]

nope. sorry. nice they like science, too bad the classes conflict. (btdt, it sucks) notice they are both suggesting missing a lit class for science . . . . are they willing to skip science to attend your class? no? kinda double standard they have there. . . .

I think it's a lot more common to have science classes that meet every other week or for certain weeks for lab purposes. My DD's does-some weeks the chapters are just "read/do written activities/online supplement stuff that came with the book), but then every few weeks they do a longer lab session. And in my experience, it's often the intermittent stuff that takes priority over a regular one (which is why my clubs no longer meet on Fridays-because that's when every single field trip and special event happens, and invariably, people skip for whatever it is).

[Guest]

I'm in the Just Say No camp, but haven't read all the responses.  Some mentioned the special-treatment slippery slope, and I think they are right.  There's enough to do as a co-op teacher without tracking all the special requests.

 

The other reason I would say no, however, is more related to what it says about your own offering...it cheapens it.  It sends a message to the other students and to the parents that the content isn't really all that important.  And if you are offering a wonderful class, you want that reputation to be supported.