If one rests, the other works.... (Clarification Post #27)

[wintermom]

I just listened to a church service with a completely different spin on the typical Martha and Mary dihcotomy, and I thinks it's way more realistic. We are all both "Martha" and "Mary" at different times in the day, in a month, in a season and in our life-time. There can be, and probably should be, a balance of the two. It's about picking the situations to be work-focused, as the typical Martha, and when to be reflective and spiritual as Mary was while Jesus was in her home. We don't see how the 2 sisters were throughout their life-time; I'm pretty sure that Mary did housework and Martha rested sometimes.

[slackermom]

Eh, I don't spend too much time thinking about what others "should" be doing, and recognized early on in life that people have different priorities, and different standards. I like to think that in general, I look for ways to work smarter, rather than longer or harder.

 

Like other posters here, I have in-laws with different standards, include a MIL who seems determined to drive herself to an early end, making work wherever and whenever possible, and standing in bitter judgment of the rest of us.

 

Just a quick illustration: MIL invited distant cousins of her ex to spend a day at her home when they were visiting from out of the country, and in preparation for the visit, she transplanted a bunch of flowering plants from her sister's garden to her own, so MIL's yard would look better for the visit. Her sister lives out of state! A total make-work project, one of many, and she was exhausted when her guests visited, and she stayed in the kitchen for most of the visit.

Edited July 20, 2016 by slackermom

[maize]

The longer I live the more I learn that judging others is a pointless occupation--we've each got our strengths and weaknesses, blessings and burdens, and mostly people are just trying to get  by and do what they can.

 

Someone who seems to sit around while others work? Maybe they have a laid-back personality that is a real blessing when stress is piling on and they can be the calm in the storm. Maybe they are struggling with depression or hypothyroidism or debilitating anxiety or some other invisible ailment. Maybe they're running on empty after weeks and months of dealing with stress at home or work. Maybe they have social or executive function deficits that leave them unfocused or uncertain what to do. 

 

I don't think there are Marthas and Marys and Millies in the world, I think there are just people and categorization is more likely to hurt than help.

Edited July 21, 2016 by maize

[heartlikealion]

Oh yeah it's normal for someone to underfunction while another overfunctions and vice versa. It's all in The Dance of Anger. Frankly I'm surprised the OP has such a balanced relationship with her mate. I don't know how common that is. That's actually pretty awesome.

 

The Biblical references actually kind of offend me, but I don't know how to express myself.

Edited July 21, 2016 by heartlikealion

[Garga]

I've been all three at different times and different situations.

 

When I was a teen/in my early twenties I was pretty unmotivated. At school, I did the minimum to get by. Fortunately, I was pretty smart and managed to get good grades with almost no work. At work, I did the minimum to get by. Fortunately, it was a government job and the department was completely overstaffed so there was very little work to do so I could get away with it. At home being married (I married at 19) I did the minimum to get by. DH has adHd, heavy on the H, so he would bounce around and get everything done.

 

But somewhere in my mid-twenties, I got a job that had more responsibility and I completely rose to the occasion. I became one of the best employees there. Literally. When I quit to raise the kids, a coworker (who was a dear friend) joked and said, "FINALLY! Now that you'll be out of the way, maybe the rest of us can get a raise every now and then!" Because I was always getting the biggest raises, which meant less money for the rest of them.

 

And then, when I had the kids, I got a lot better with homemaking. A lot better. And I learned to cook, finally, at age 30.

 

However, all throughout being a Millie in school and my first job and first years of marriage, I did a ton (a ton!) of volunteer work at church. Ever since I was 10, I was doing some sort of volunteer work. I played the clarinet during the music, 3 services a week for about a year. Played the piano before every service (3x a week) for about 15 years, ran the projector during the music for 15 years, worked in the nursery for 3 years, worked with the preschooler class for 7 years, visited a nursing home once or twice a month for a full 20 years.

 

And then I started homeschooling. And about 2 years ago, it got really serious. The oldest was in 7th and I felt like I had to up my game. I am very hands on with schooling them. The kids aren't really self-motivated yet (as I wasn't at that age...remember, that didn't kick in until I was about 23), so I am very hands on actively teaching.

 

 

 

And now that I'm looking down the barrel of high school, I'm realizing that I'll be working more than 40 hours a week to keep up with all the stuff I want to do for the boys for homeschool. This is my first year completely separating out their work and I'm not sure just yet how I'll teach 10 separate classes to kids who aren't self-motivated. I have some ideas, but I know it'll take a lot of my time, at least for the first year.

 

Around December of last year, I was just tired of doing all that church volunteering, knowing all the work I do homeschooling and realizing all the work that is coming up for high school.

 

And so I stopped. Everything. I do NOTHING for the church now. After all those years of 3xs a week of doing various things, I was just done. Done, done, done.

 

Two weeks ago, some very lovely friends of mine who teach the teenagers and tweens at church were discussing their frustration at how hard it is to find someone to help. They weren't gossipy. Just frustrated. About halfway through, I could tell that they realized that they were talking about how no one helps...right in front of me. Who never helps. And they kind of shut down because they realized it was probably not a good thing to complain about non-helpers in front of a non-helper because they are nice people and didn't want to hurt my feelings. Though...they were still frustrated that no one helps.

 

And I thought...should I rattle off about the 20 years at the nursing home? And the 15 at the piano? And the 15 at the projector? And the 3 years in the nursery? Or the 7 with the preschoolers?

 

And I just didn't have the energy.

 

I guess they think I'm a Millie. And at church, I am. :).

 

But as a homeschooler? Nope. Until I figure out how to juggle everything, I'm looking at a good 40 or more hour homeschool work week (prep, correcting papers, active teaching, directing, etc.), plus homemaking and dinner cooking and shuttling the kids...well, you all know the drill.

 

 

Bottom line. Millies might know they're being Millies and they're ok with it. Some Millies don't know. And some Millies are Millies in one arena of their lives, but not another. But you can never know looking in from the outside which is which.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Garga

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Garga, I know exactly what you mean about having to stand there and take it (the assumptions) at church, because what are you going to do? Brag about your credentials? I also taught for a quarter of a century before taking just a few years off...but all my experience was at other churches so our new church doesn't know much about me.

 

Which is why a woman recently told me that she hopes I will follow my sons' examples and consider serving in the church, so I can be blessed by learning what that feels like, and how rewarding it is. "If you'll ever decide to serve, you'll see that you get more out of it than the people you are serving. That's an important thing to experience at some point in your life!"

 

I just smiled and agreed that serving is good. And went home and banged my head against the wall, because even without knowing my church history, wouldn't somebody infer that a homeschooling mother of four might know a little about doing stuff for others?

[Garga]

Garga, I know exactly what you mean about having to stand there and take it (the assumptions) at church, because what are you going to do? Brag about your credentials? I also taught for a quarter of a century before taking just a few years off...but all my experience was at other churches so our new church doesn't know much about me.

 

Which is why a woman recently told me that she hopes I will follow my sons' examples and consider serving in the church, so I can be blessed by learning what that feels like, and how rewarding it is. "If you'll ever decide to serve, you'll see that you get more out of it than the people you are serving. That's an important thing to experience at some point in your life!"

 

I just smiled and agreed that serving is good. And went home and banged my head against the wall, because even without knowing my church history, wouldn't somebody infer that a homeschooling mother of four might know a little about doing stuff for others?

Yes! That was it for me, too: A lot of the work I did was at a different church. And I didn't want to start listing my credentials to the people at the new one because it would have felt like hollow bragging.

 

I'm not sure how I would have reacted to the helpful comments by the lady trying to encourage you. :) I'm not sure whether I'd have laughed or cried. Part of me would want to jump on that and list my "accomplishments", another part would have found it hilarious and wouldn't have said a thing, and a third part would have vacillated between extending grace or feeling insulted at her words.

[heartlikealion]

Garga, I know exactly what you mean about having to stand there and take it (the assumptions) at church, because what are you going to do? Brag about your credentials? I also taught for a quarter of a century before taking just a few years off...but all my experience was at other churches so our new church doesn't know much about me.

 

Which is why a woman recently told me that she hopes I will follow my sons' examples and consider serving in the church, so I can be blessed by learning what that feels like, and how rewarding it is. "If you'll ever decide to serve, you'll see that you get more out of it than the people you are serving. That's an important thing to experience at some point in your life!"

 

I just smiled and agreed that serving is good. And went home and banged my head against the wall, because even without knowing my church history, wouldn't somebody infer that a homeschooling mother of four might know a little about doing stuff for others?

 

Ok I just couldn't keep quiet during all that probably. I think I would have had to say, "oh I agree. I was able to experience that at xyz or during blah blah."

 

I have had people twice tell me about sacrifice and insinuate that I haven't made a big enough sacrifice for my children because I haven't sent ds to a Catholic school. It makes me leave feeling so upset.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Ok I just couldn't keep quiet during all that probably. I think I would have had to say, "oh I agree. I was able to experience that at xyz or during blah blah."

 

I have had people twice tell me about sacrifice and insinuate that I haven't made a big enough sacrifice for my children because I haven't sent ds to a Catholic school. It makes me leave feeling so upset.

People can be so dumb.

[heartlikealion]

People can be so dumb.

 

Thank you. They say this knowing that the nearest ones are 45 min. to an hour away as if acquiring transportation to/from daily is a reasonable thing to tackle.

[SKL]

I agree that Mary and Martha are both part of a balanced personality.  There is a similar (but a little deeper) concept in Hinduism:

 

http://www.saibhaktiradio.com/wp/bhaagti-phirti-thi-duniya-jab-talab-karte-the-hum/

 

There's a time and place to just "be" and a time and place to "do."  It takes maturity and experience to know when it's time to switch from one to the other.

 

And as I get older, I get more and more relaxed about certain things not getting done.  They only matter if someone thinks they matter.  When attention to detail threatens the peace in the home, many of the details can be ignored / postponed without hurting anyone.

[SKL]

As for "service" type work, I say that I've done a lot of volunteer work in other seasons of my life, and will do so again.  In the current season I am mostly taking a break from volunteer work in order to focus on my significant primary responsibilities.

 

I do realize that there is a lot of work being done by others which benefits me.  However, I'm not exactly tanning on the beach either.  :P  I've never been a slacker and probably never will be.  I'm sure it will all even out over time.

 

That said, I did feel pressured into volunteering to do a regular job for scouts this year, in addition to the usual one-off stuff.  I am worried that it will bite me in the butt when my work gets heavy.  At least I won't be pestered at church since I decline to become a member.

[SKL]

And yes, on the other hand I've been Martha to some Marys in my life.  I have historically been the housework person in the house, even before kids lived here.  Even when other housemates had their family members living here.  I live with people who basically don't see mess / dirt.  Except once in a while, one of them will point it out to me.  :/  Or they will do a little job (like emptying the dishwasher once) and they'll make a point to tell me and expect appreciation, while not noticing the other 99% of the work I do all the time. :P  It's less of an issue now that I don't have time to keep up with it myself.

[SKL]

And this thread reminds me of a person I needed to calm down recently over kid bathing issues.  Her kids are 5/6 and IMO don't strictly need to bathe every day, but she apparently never misses a day and can't fathom doing so.  She gets worked up and screams mean things at the kids and feels disrespected and hated because life doesn't cooperate with her view of how a well-oiled family machine should run.  I'm like, if it's that difficult, skip a day.  Nobody will die.  Now she probably thinks I'm neglectful and disgusting.  :P

[Ausmumof3]

Oh yeah it's normal for someone to underfunction while another overfunctions and vice versa. It's all in The Dance of Anger. Frankly I'm surprised the OP has such a balanced relationship with her mate. I don't know how common that is. That's actually pretty awesome.

 

The Biblical references actually kind of offend me, but I don't know how to express myself.

I think for me I think overall the story of Mary and Martha are commonly interpreted as a story of doing versus thinking. But what Jesus really said the story was about being troubled about many things versus the one thing that was needful - God. Thinkers can be troubled by many things as much as doers.

 

Either way I don't think we need to bring a Millie into it seeing as Jesus didn't.

[BlsdMama]

I rarely feel urgency about other people's priorities.  Take co-op.  I am in one.  Our leader gets herself ALL worked up all the time, stressing herself out.  I could join in, but why?  There is no need for an extra person to be worked up, because the leader seems to have enough stress for us all.  I just let it work out as it works out.  Which it would do if she would calm down, too.  But she seems to thrive on the stress and being worked up and sending out emails with several lines in ALL CAPS several times a month.  

 

It all works out.  It always does.  If it doesn't work out, then it wasn't that important, and it didn't need doing, especially in something as "extra" as co-op.  But telling her that seems like it would hurt her feelings.  So I just sit back and let her spin around in her stress.  

But I don't join in.  If that makes me lazy, so be it.  It also makes me peaceful, and that's a good thing.

 

 

I can see what you're saying and I think this goes back to someone else's post about some folks LIKING to be over-burdened, or look busy, or look overwhelmed... Their perception of themselves is defined by "doing" and that's where they get their sense of value maybe?  We aren't in a co-op currently and that is because the "pulling" (being yoked together to pull a load) is so uneven - not just according to talents and gifts but because  you have a dozen moms, all with responsibilities and needs and demands, and yet, as some will not carry a load at co-op, they receive the blessing of the co-op without pulling forward the load.

 

It makes me hesitant.  I'd like to see a Pioneer Girls group begun here as I'd really like my girls to benefit the same way I have seen my boys benefit from Scouts & Trail Life.  I know I can do my 1/10 of the load  or whatever it ends up being.  The problem?  I can't do 4/10 of the load.  So, do I commit, knowing that those who pull will have to make up for those who don't?  That's a hard call.   

 

:iagree: My stamina issues are different than Jean's, but at some point I had to realize it wasn't all going to get done. I very much have a Mary temperament in the sense that I want to be fully in the presence of whatever is before me. Housework is never really done, hosting guests is about spending time with them (I tend to have laid back, casual friends) and I'm pretty good at delegating when a need arises. 

 

The joke at my old church was that if you proposed something, congratulations, you are now in charge of making it happen. I'm not afraid to jump in and help or be in charge, but there are certain things I avoid being charge of. I'm also okay with saying no. 

 

My priority is making sure the people I love know they are loved, the one I'm raising is given the tools to succeed in life, and that I arrive at tomorrow with what is left of my sanity/stamina/wherewithal intact. I try not to make more issues/messes for those around me either.

 

I read the passage about Martha and Mary again this week for a class, so I've been pondering some of these thoughts over the last few days. I also realize that my ability to "rest" has always be different from those raising larger families. 

 

"I want to be fully in the presence of whatever is before me"

 

I love this quote.  One of the moms I most admire I can honestly say was fully in the presence of whomever she was attending - from the very young to the rest of us moms.  I think she is amazing.  She was also a doer.  I guess that's what I'm striving for...  But maybe it's good to have something to strive for and reach for....  And okay to not have attained it perfectly.  Hm.

 

 

 

Man, I've always been bugged by the Mary/Martha thing. It's all very well to be Mary but woman does not live by prayer and meditation alone, and someone - Martha - was cooking dinner. I'm all for praise of Martha!

 

Not sure about Millie. Haven't heard of her before.

 

I have no idea what teaching from a state of rest means. I'd imagine that if everyone in a household took their turn playing Martha, channeling Mary and teaching from peaceful graciousness would be a heck of a lot easier.

 

Well, Millie wasn't in the Bible. ;)  If she had, I suspect she would have been fanning herself, not serving nor really listening to Jesus. :D  

The last bit you wrote - YES!  I think you worded it better for me.

I guess though, and what I'm asking, is a better understanding of the Millie type.  Because, of course, if everyone (in a household, or in a co-op, or in a church) did their 1/100, then others wouldn't have to carry the 32/100 part.  And I'm wondering, does Millie not see that others then have to pick up her pieces?  Or does she not realize that others have homes to care for, children to teach, sick family members to tend, illnesses?   I think that for all of us, we have seasons where we have to step back.  It might be because of illness/depression or it might be because of many littles, or.... fill in the blank.  And I definitely understand that.  I'm definitely NOT counting that type of situation in the Millie syndrome.

 

Yes.  And No.  And I don't know.  And it depends on the person and the circumstances. :)

 

FWIW, yes I used to have a friend that surrounded herself with people that would do a LOT for her.  I was one of those people.  Her husband was, too.  He did nearly all of the housework, paid the bills, bathed the kids, did most of the cooking, etc.  He was also the sole breadwinner.  I was kind of shocked at how little she actually did in the house and how much her husband did.  All the littles went to day school for 4 hours every day so she did have some time on her own.  I thought she must be pretty manipulative or lazy to get him to do everything for her but honestly, once I got to know them better, I realized that several things were happening, and her choice of people she surrounded herself with was probably subconscious and it cut both ways.  

 

TBH, I think I gravitated to her because she seemed to need help and I tend to like to help people.  I think her husband gravitated towards her because he is nurturing and a doer and likes to help, but he also tends to micromanage.  She would let him because that was her nature.  It created a dynamic where she really seemed pretty lazy but in the end I don't think it was laziness or manipulation.

 

1.  Her husband was such a doer that he would step in and do EVERYTHING because he wanted things done a certain way, he wanted things done in a certain time frame, he liked to help out and he never established any boundaries.  The more he took on, the more she let him.  He wasn't rude about it or anything.  He just would step in a do it without ever giving her a chance to do things on her time table.  

 

2.  Honestly, she was pretty oblivious.  For example, she and I were at a little kid's birthday party.  She went through the line to feed herself and never once thought about feeding her kids.  Literally.  The oldest one (4 1/2) finally asked me if I would help her get food for her and her siblings.  The woman had already left the dining area to go sit outside and eat.  I got them plates of food while also juggling a plate for my 4 1/2 year old while also juggling my 1 year old on my hip.   I led the kids to her with the food and she looked so startled.  She apologized sincerely and explained that she was used to her husband taking care of the kids when they were at parties.  She forgot she would need to feed them since he wasn't there this time.  Was she an awful person?  No.  And any time I ever asked her to help me with something she was more than willing to do it.  She also would work incredibly hard at special projects for the kids.  She even made my son a beautiful lamp when he was born.  She wasn't intrinsically lazy.  And she adored her kids.   She just wasn't terribly nurturing or observant.

 

 

I really appreciated your post on this. I think this was the insight I was thinking - just trying to get inside the head of what someone might be okay with letting others "do" for them all the time.  It has confused me.  I have a hard time letting people do for me - it's actually a problem.  I have a hard time letting other people bless me and it is not a source of pride like most would think.  It's that I would feel shame if I could do it myself.  I think most people think that "Martha" types think that they feel like they are superior to others that can't get enough done.  Maybe it is for others.  However, I think for many "Martha" types, they feel a pressing need to do for others because their definition of themselves is defined by what they can get done in a day.  I really wonder how this will affect us as we age, as we get older.  My grandfather was a doer and really felt the need to "do" for those around him.  He's about to turn 91 (tomorrow) and obviously cannot do a lot for those around him physically.  And, yet, I LOVE being around him - but it does affect how he feels about HIMSELF.

Plus, folks with this temperament always "see" what needs to be done - and yet often cannot do it "all" or do it to their standards.  I think  your example in #1 is so great.  It has taken me a LOT of effort to take the time to teach my kids to do tasks and learn to be content with the tasks being done well and not to a "standard" but to look at getting things done more as nurturing their abilities, to give them the gift of pitching in, to be okay with less than perfectly clean bathrooms because it's really about teaching kids to contribute and allow them to contribute.  Marthas feel the need to get everything done and who they must conquer the most is SELF - and make themselves be still at the feet of someone else, to learn to have times of being still  and know that that action ALSO ministers to others.  Because, really, often their head is doing something like this, "If I don't get the dishes done then I can't sit down and listen because the doing needs done."  (And keep in mind that the doing does need done because the next day they may be taking food to someone, or taking a child somewhere, or doing something else - they are just trying to do everything for everyone.  It is not always that they LIKE to be harried and crazy.  It's that they want to do SO VERY much that they feel pressed to stack it tight together.  The guilt we feel over something like a nap or, for instance, my online time for me in the AM, often haunts them later in the day when they realize their mental list won't get done.)

 

People are so fascinating and individual.

[Critterfixer]

I wasn't going to post, because I wasn't a hundred percent sure at what you were getting at, OP. But recently I have made a real effort to quit doing so much. I'm working on learning to sit back and let people do things for me. I'm learning to call ahead when I'm coming in from work and request that DH make something for me to eat. I'm learning to ask the boys to do one of my chores now and then when I'm tired. 

What I've found out is that 1) I absolutely LOVE it when people that I love do things for me and 2) I am then much more interested in making an effort to do something special for them to show that I love them back. 

But it does take a conscious effort to not let guilt get in the way of accepting love or requesting it. Sure makes a world of difference when you can get over it, though! :001_smile:

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I think this was the insight I was thinking - just trying to get inside the head of what someone might be okay with letting others "do" for them all the time

 

But it is so variable. 

 

For some people it really is a season for pulling back but as in some of the above examples, you don't have the history with them to see that and they aren't going to explain it because it feels like bragging or having to justify their actions. 

 

For some people it is depression.  But they don't necessarily look and sound like Eeyore.  They look "normal" on the outside.  They may or may not even be aware of their depression  And even if they are, they aren't going to be explaining it to everyone.

 

For some people it is learned helplessness.  There was a version of that in our church when I became the pastor's wife.  Everyone kept waiting for me to do EVERYTHING because the previous pastor's wife did everything and micromanaged what you did, if you did try to help.  People would come in the morning saying "Is there any coffee yet?" while looking at me expectantly.  I just handed them the pot and told them how to make it.  (I still do plenty but some things like the coffee were stupid for me to do because we live farther away and they got to church before me.  And besides, I didn't want to do everything.)  Anyway, it took them a while to feel free to do stuff, but once they did, you could see the feeling of ownership in this being a group endeavor. And honestly, if coffee wasn't important enough to them to be made, it isn't like we couldn't worship God without coffee.  (This said as a non-coffee drinker.  ;)  )

 

Some people really are selfish users.   Though that certainly isn't the first thought that I would have about anyone.  As I said before, this is only something I would think if it was a long-established pattern and I think it would come with a lot of other stuff besides just not pitching in now and then. 

 

Sometimes too, just getting themselves or their kids to an activity is all they have the time and energy to do.  So do you want them there even if they don't pitch in?  Or do you want them to not be there unless they do pitch in?  I suspect the right answer to this can sometimes go one way or the other.  In the case of church stuff, just them being there is of paramount importance, in my opinion.  In the case of other groups, sometimes it is about the shared work and if you don't participate in that, you really aren't getting the point of the group.  In that case, I think the group can and should make that clear. 

 

[amy g.]

I'm pretty sure that you would consider me a Millie. Here are a couple of examples. This is our 20th year with kids on swim team. I've never done a single volunteer hour. My husband always did them all. This past summer, he was across the country. My best friend and my oldest daughter both offered to do my required hours, but my husband flew home to do it. We just moved and started with a new team. The president asked if I had been told about the volunteer requirements. I said yes and gave her my husband's email.

 

When we had babies, if they woke up in the night, my husband would go get them from upstairs and bring them to me to nurse in the night so I didn't have to get up. Once he was out of town and I was trying to get my daughter out the crib. She fell down laughing. She couldn't believe I didn't know I was the wrong parent!

 

I've never paid any bills. My husband takes care of all of that for the family and my best friend does all of my business accounting and taxes. I told my husband that he needed to give my best friend all of our passwords so if anything ever happened to him, she could pay my household bills too.

 

There is plenty more, but that should prove my point.

 

As for why I feel like it is okay for other people to take care of me, I think about my family and community like different organs. There are some heart cells out their feel like everyone should be pumping blood and anyone who is filtering waste is not doing their part.

 

As to how I became a Millie, I think their are a few factors. I'm low stamina. I can push myself, but then I end up getting sick or getting stressed and yelling and fighting. I know my limits and it is best for everyone if I stay within them.

 

I'm also 2e. My learning disabilities make numbers pretty much meaningless to me. I could try to time your kid's race, but I'd reverse the digits and it would slow the whole meet down trying to fix my mistakes. Why should I try to force myself to be a different kind of cell, when it is easy and natural for my husband to run all of the computers and keep the meet flowing on time and without conflict?

 

My gifts make it very easy for me to be in present time with children, seeing things from their perspective and eliminating busywork, but helping them reach academic goals but also always putting their emotional needs first.

 

This is my talent. For years I homeschooled my best friend's son folded in with my own. She is a single mom so when she got off of work, I always brought them dinner when I took him home because I was already cooking a big meal from scratch for my family and they are tiny people who eat less together than one of my kids. How does that hurt me to do what comes easily for me but blessed them?

 

The little boy is grown up now. He was our swim coach and when the other parents would rave about him, my friend would tell them to give me the credit because I raised him and taught her how to be a mother.

 

My friend gave me a going away party and I told her how fun it was, she said that it was because she gave herself permission to not worry about the house and to just enjoy the guests. She said that if she hadn't bought the house next door, she wouldn't have known better than to leave the baby crying in the crib while she bleached the grout with a toothbrush on the weekends.

 

At that party were mothers who I taught as preschoolers, there was the brilliant friend who tutored my kids in algebra and physics without ever charging me because they are so fun.

 

There is the friend who packed my whole kitchen for me because I had an appointment and the workers were coming the next day.

 

I guess it is possible that they all think of me as a taker, but in that case, I don't know why they were all bawling so hard about my moving away.

 

I feel like true Marthas live in a box. I take the box and ask, "How can we use the materials from this box to build a castle?"

 

I'm sure people I'm not close to judge me, but I imagine that judgement has it's root in jealousy.

 

I'm just here happily filtering waste, while I let other people pump blood and we are all healthy and supported and reaching our individual goals.

[SKL]

I think those of us with the capability should do more for others, over our lifetimes, than others do for us.  Because there will always be people who need help and can't pull their share.

 

OK I sometimes fall back on the single mom thing.  Perhaps some people find it annoying, but it's real.  I have to work.  I don't have a partner to help with the kids.  I have to take out the garbage and fix the faucet and plunge the toilet and the other 1000 things that come up without warning.  I would love to also do what the married SAH scout leaders do, but I would collapse, and then who would take care of my kids?  I know this because I used to do many hours of volunteer work after the kids came into my life, and I nearly did collapse.

 

So some would say, don't do scouts then.  But that's not fair to my kids.  Our family structure is not their fault.

 

I have done thousands of hours of volunteer work for other people's kids - mostly before I had kids of my own.  Does that count?

 

And I give money, but that isn't visible, so that doesn't count either as far as appearances go.

 

So I feel like I'll be viewed as a pile-on if I go on just paying my dues and attending the meetings.  But is it right?

[importswim]

This is the perfect example! Thank you!

 

So the way I see this is that neither you nor your sister are Millies.

ETA: I'm exactly the same way and I think I'm a Martha (who could do with a lot more Mary in her life.)  If I've worked all day long and it's my *preference* to sit after dinner and not hop right up and clean the kitchen and I'd rather do it later or in the AM on some nights when I'm wiped out - it doesn't mean I am hoping someone else will do it.  It just means I don't feel like doing it at that moment.

 

You simply have a routine you prefer, but you do it.

 

 

The "Millie" persona that I think of is married to Mr. Can Do.  She knows it.  She knows if she eats dinner long enough and sighs, then Mr. Can Do will do the dishes, not because it's their routine, but because he knows she won't get around to it and it's up to him.

 

In the co-op setting Marthas are forced to plan classes, make rules, do schedules... Not because it's their priority.  But because if they don't, no one will and then their kids won't have a co-op.

This is the first I've heard of the "Millie" reference. I will say, however, that unless you live 24 hours with this person you don't REALLY know what sort of person she is, only what she's told you or what's been said about her. Just because she's lazy in your eyes about a few different things doesn't mean she does nothing. I think it's really hard to pigeonhole someone as one type of person unless they're your spouse and you know them intimately.

[8circles]

I'm pretty sure that you would consider me a Millie. Here are a couple of examples. This is our 20th year with kids on swim team. I've never done a single volunteer hour. My husband always did them all. This past summer, he was across the country. My best friend and my oldest daughter both offered to do my required hours, but my husband flew home to do it. We just moved and started with a new team. The president asked if I had been told about the volunteer requirements. I said yes and gave her my husband's email.

 

When we had babies, if they woke up in the night, my husband would go get them from upstairs and bring them to me to nurse in the night so I didn't have to get up. Once he was out of town and I was trying to get my daughter out the crib. She fell down laughing. She couldn't believe I didn't know I was the wrong parent!

 

I've never paid any bills. My husband takes care of all of that for the family and my best friend does all of my business accounting and taxes. I told my husband that he needed to give my best friend all of our passwords so if anything ever happened to him, she could pay my household bills too.

 

There is plenty more, but that should prove my point.

 

As for why I feel like it is okay for other people to take care of me, I think about my family and community like different organs. There are some heart cells out their feel like everyone should be pumping blood and anyone who is filtering waste is not doing their part.

 

As to how I became a Millie, I think their are a few factors. I'm low stamina. I can push myself, but then I end up getting sick or getting stressed and yelling and fighting. I know my limits and it is best for everyone if I stay within them.

 

I'm also 2e. My learning disabilities make numbers pretty much meaningless to me. I could try to time your kid's race, but I'd reverse the digits and it would slow the whole meet down trying to fix my mistakes. Why should I try to force myself to be a different kind of cell, when it is easy and natural for my husband to run all of the computers and keep the meet flowing on time and without conflict?

 

My gifts make it very easy for me to be in present time with children, seeing things from their perspective and eliminating busywork, but helping them reach academic goals but also always putting their emotional needs first.

 

This is my talent. For years I homeschooled my best friend's son folded in with my own. She is a single mom so when she got off of work, I always brought them dinner when I took him home because I was already cooking a big meal from scratch for my family and they are tiny people who eat less together than one of my kids. How does that hurt me to do what comes easily for me but blessed them?

 

The little boy is grown up now. He was our swim coach and when the other parents would rave about him, my friend would tell them to give me the credit because I raised him and taught her how to be a mother.

 

My friend gave me a going away party and I told her how fun it was, she said that it was because she gave herself permission to not worry about the house and to just enjoy the guests. She said that if she hadn't bought the house next door, she wouldn't have known better than to leave the baby crying in the crib while she bleached the grout with a toothbrush on the weekends.

 

At that party were mothers who I taught as preschoolers, there was the brilliant friend who tutored my kids in algebra and physics without ever charging me because they are so fun.

 

There is the friend who packed my whole kitchen for me because I had an appointment and the workers were coming the next day.

 

I guess it is possible that they all think of me as a taker, but in that case, I don't know why they were all bawling so hard about my moving away.

 

I feel like true Marthas live in a box. I take the box and ask, "How can we use the materials from this box to build a castle?"

 

I'm sure people I'm not close to judge me, but I imagine that judgement has it's root in jealousy.

 

I'm just here happily filtering waste, while I let other people pump blood and we are all healthy and supported and reaching our individual goals.

 

Love this.

 

My life details are different, but I'm like you in that people probably see me as a "Millie" as well.  It used to bother me, but I've let it go.  

[Outdoorsy Type]

Just adding another thought. From a biblical perspective you have a few correct responses to those you view as Millie/lazy.

 

1. Get your eyes off her perceived sin, you have your own to deal with.

 

2. Ask her if she can help in the kitchen or whatever with you, and befriend/mentor her. Get to know her, and encourage her strengths to be used. Pray for her. Lift her up.

 

There are many examples of people being exasperated or angry because they feel others aren't going their part. Jesus never condoned sighing and complaining about your brother. Never.

 

In a group (not church) setting I think it's good to set ground rules and standards to prevent one person doing too much.

[4everHis]

This is my understanding too.   It's about being intentional, doing the things that are necessary and letting go of the stuff that doesn't matter.  It's not always easy to figure out what does and doesn't matter.

 

I know a lot of homeschool moms who are frantic all the time because they can't do everything they think they need to do, but much of what they think is necessary is not.   Forcing a kid to play 3 instruments and be in multiple orchestras when the kid hates it and is burned out is not helpful to anyone.  Cut down to the instrument the child enjoys, and let the rest go. 

 

I haven't studied the concept of "teaching from rest" comprehensively but it has nothing to do with not teaching at all, or expecting someone else to do it.  Who would do it?  Who's going to come in and teach my kids for me?

 

I get the Martha and Mary references but not Millie.   Sure Mary took the time to sit at Jesus' feet and listen because that was her opportunity to do so.  He wasn't there all the time.  The food prep was of lesser importance at that moment. , Martha was doing it but if Martha had decided to sit down too, and leave the preparation for little while, it would have been done later, by both of them.  I identify with Martha but it seems she was focused on entertaining her guests rather than offering hospitality to them.  In other words, she wanted things to be just right but that wasn't what was needed.  

 I like that. I think sometimes these verses are used to explain ALL of life for M & M when it very well may be that it was talking about this moment in time. 

[kbutton]

Just adding another thought. From a biblical perspective you have a few correct responses to those you view as Millie/lazy.

 

1. Get your eyes off her perceived sin, you have your own to deal with.

 

2. Ask her if she can help in the kitchen or whatever with you, and befriend/mentor her. Get to know her, and encourage her strengths to be used. Pray for her. Lift her up.

 

There are many examples of people being exasperated or angry because they feel others aren't going their part. Jesus never condoned sighing and complaining about your brother. Never.

 

In a group (not church) setting I think it's good to set ground rules and standards to prevent one person doing too much.

 

:iagree: I can't like this enough, even though I don't always meet this standard.

 

OP, I don't think you are being judgmental in asking the question, so don't take this as a "correction." With #2 above, I've found that sometimes it's just best to get to know the person and see how you can bring out the best in them. Sometimes, they're in a situation where they're a round peg in a square hole, or whatever, and they haven't found their way to NOT be Millie in that setting. If you end up being the person to bring that out, it means a lot, particularly if they've had a burning desire to do or be something but didn't know how to achieve it.

 

I was also going to say that sometimes the problem with Marys, Marthas, and Millies is that they just don't communicate. That's one reason why I don't like to do a lot of organized activities. You can have really organized people who want to micromanage, but you can also have really organized people who pull into themselves and don't want to play on a team because it's too hard. Both dynamics cause trouble, and both can create Millies, I think. And again, Millie's aren't always what we think they are.

 

On a practical level, I tend to choose jobs I can do that don't have to mesh with other's expectations unless it's a pretty cut and dry role. I get tired of explaining myself, and that makes people either defensive or makes them think I don't want to do a job when I really just have different questions than they would have. For co-op, we opted to do a small, 3-4 family co-op so that we could flex. We do not all pull an even load, and that's okay with us. We basically state what we're up to doing, and then we work the co-op structure around that reality. We don't do the same things every year for this reason. We also have "work days" during the summer where we drink coffee, chat, and prep materials together to lighten the load. Sometimes it's just two of us moms, not everyone, and that is perfectly fine. We state ahead of time what we'd like to accomplish and what we're willing to do, and then we do it. It's not perfect, but it really does help. It's more sensible than choosing an outcome and expecting vastly different people to make it happen. Much easier to work with what you've got (assuming people with be forthcoming). This strategy means we get to the end of the year tired but liking each other. :-) If someone seems a bit "flaky" compared to the overall tone of the group, we try to build in failsafes vs. expecting a lot. Sometimes their life is flaky, not them, and that's okay. Sometimes they are simply not that adaptable in the moment, but they do make changes that help for the next go around.

 

I think that people are people, and they are likely to cabbage onto a role that allows them rationalize their behavior. It happens. Sometimes they aren't rationalizing--it's just that they are not what we think they are, or they have different gifts, etc.