Need help wording for an email to youth pastor

[5wolfcubs]

My children and I have been at a small church for almost a year. My dh is a believer but not an attender. I really don't know anyone personally, including the pastoral team. My dds, 13 & 11, started going to the youth group a month ago. They're both incredibly shy but have been willing to go each week -- which makes me very happy.

 

Last night they came home with a "Candy Quiz" published by the ministry "Youth Specialties" with two phrases that I found...umm, slightly distressing.

"Crimson-colored libidinous cravings" and "labial massage" :blushing: the answers being different types of candies. They did the quiz in pairs (my girls were together) and then the answers were read and, presumably, laughed over.

 

I haven't discussed it with them yet. I don't want to if it went completely over their heads...but it probably didn't. AND I want to send a note to the couple who runs the youth group. But don't know how to word it. I don't want to be accusatroy...I guess I just want to know if it is par for the course. Then I have to decide if we stay the course.

 

I was thinking of something casual along the lines of "Shocked and slightly embarrassed by numbers 5 & 15, I have to ask -- is this standard fare for youth group?" And see what they say.

 

Sound good, or should I be more shocked and embarrassed? :lol:

[Hen]

wow, that is really upsetting.

 

I think your note is perfect, I might add the word "concerned" to it. If you get the brush off, I would seriously consider taking them out of youth group. Just my 2 cents.

[Ohio12]

I definately think you should say something, but don't go too over the top because I bet that they didn't even know that that was in there! That is no excuse, but I bet they didn't read it. How could they have possibly still used it if they have? They will probably be as horrified as you were. I think they will be impressed that you are a vigilent parent who reads what comes home with the kids. What were some of the other questions for crying out loud? This sounds like a pornographic quiz. I am not sure I even understand the first one!

 

My children and I have been at a small church for almost a year. My dh is a believer but not an attender. I really don't know anyone personally, including the pastoral team. My dds, 13 & 11, started going to the youth group a month ago. They're both incredibly shy but have been willing to go each week -- which makes me very happy.

 

Last night they came home with a "Candy Quiz" published by the ministry "Youth Specialties" with two phrases that I found...umm, slightly distressing.

"Crimson-colored libidinous cravings" and "labial massage" :blushing: the answers being different types of candies. They did the quiz in pairs (my girls were together) and then the answers were read and, presumably, laughed over.

 

I haven't discussed it with them yet. I don't want to if it went completely over their heads...but it probably didn't. AND I want to send a note to the couple who runs the youth group. But don't know how to word it. I don't want to be accusatroy...I guess I just want to know if it is par for the course. Then I have to decide if we stay the course.

 

I was thinking of something casual along the lines of "Shocked and slightly embarrassed by numbers 5 & 15, I have to ask -- is this standard fare for youth group?" And see what they say.

 

Sound good, or should I be more shocked and embarrassed? :lol:

[Aubrey]

I think the pastor needs to know about this, too. Whether YP used poor judgement or neglected to read what he passed to the youth, the pastor needs a heads up. The other parents will need a heads up, & that's probably better coming from pastor, so that everybody can feel comfortable that the situation is being handled.

[jmgconner]

I think the pastor needs to know about this, too. Whether YP used poor judgement or neglected to read what he passed to the youth, the pastor needs a heads up. The other parents will need a heads up, & that's probably better coming from pastor, so that everybody can feel comfortable that the situation is being handled.

 

:iagree:

[Ellie]

I haven't discussed it with them yet. I don't want to if it went completely over their heads...but it probably didn't. AND I want to send a note to the couple who runs the youth group. But don't know how to word it. I don't want to be accusatroy...I guess I just want to know if it is par for the course. Then I have to decide if we stay the course.

 

I wouldnt' e-mail. Something this serious deserves a telephone call.

 

I was thinking of something casual along the lines of "Shocked and slightly embarrassed by numbers 5 & 15, I have to ask -- is this standard fare for youth group?" And see what they say.

 

My thoughts would be more along the lines of "horrified and stunned beyond words and sorely tempted not to bring dc back in this lifetime." However, I could modify that to "horrified and stunned beyond words--is this standard fare for youth group? and if so, what were you thinking???"

 

:confused:

[Remudamom]

Mercy Sakes Alive? What were they thinking?

 

I'd have to do this in person.... are they nuts? Go to them and ask them exactly what are we trying to accomplish with this? I mean, walk up to them and shove the paper under their noses and then stand there with your mouth hanging open and a "what the %#$@ is this?" look on your face!

 

Pastor absolutely needs to see this. I don't care if they didn't know it was there, that only makes them negligent AND stupid, or worse.

 

And BTW, I want to know what kind of candy that's describing, because I'm too dense to figure it out for myself, and I'm pretty sure I never want to eat any of it.

 

ETA- AND ANOTHER THING.........I'd want an apology in writing to each child/family involved, or I'd have their jobs. This is a major mistake and they need to own up to it.

 

ETA again.........Tell them to send me an apology too while they're at it.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Remudamom

[ChristusG]

I would definitely say something. I would not want my children taking a quiz with those things on it anywhere, but especailly at church. Some kids that age probably dont even have any idea what those things were. Was this youth led or led by an adult?

 

Am I the only one wondering what candy could possibly be described with those words??? I cannot figure out what candy it is.

[Danestress]

And I would say that I would have called but that I am too embarrassed to say these words outloud, which is probably a good sign that they are inappropriate for a youth group.

 

What were they thinking?

[neesek]

Youth Specialties has a number of wonderful products for youth groups. My husband and I have used many of them over the years. I actually looked this up, and it comes from their book called Games. You can see the page on the Amazon preview. (The answers are red hots and kiss, BTW).

 

With that being said, I would probably express my concerns in person. Chances are that the couple probably did not take the time to preview every single question beforehand and trusted it because it did come from YS. I was rather surprised to see those items on there myself. Had it been me, I probably would have marked them out or retyped the quiz omitting those questions before actually using it. It was probably an error in judgment on their part, but if you express your concerns, they will probably be far more vigilant in the future.

[shell in SC]

Remudamom,

I don't know either. . .I was too embarrased to say so. I'd even have to look some of those words up in the dictionary (well, just one)

[6packofun]

That would be a face-to-face conversation for me with the paper in my hand and a pretty stinking serious look on my mug. WOW. I can't imagine using any materials without quickly scanning for appropriateness like that! Especially from the "edgy, culture-friendly" type stuff from Youth Specialties--and I *do* use some of their stuff. It's good but I don't trust ANY source other than the Bible to be on target when it comes to teaching our kids. Sheesh. I'm appalled.

 

And on a related note, please tell me what the 2 candy bars are because I must know and I'm so flustered I can't get the answers. LOL!!

[Renai]

"Crimson-colored libidinous cravings" and "labial massage" :blushing: t

 

I must say I was shocked when I first read it to. Then remembered that labial has to do with the lips, and not necessarily the ones down under (if that's what you're thinking, cuz my mind went there- first). I'm pretty sure I'm not the only ones, including (or especially) those in the youth group.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=9507

http://aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/dictionary/labial

 

I think the first clue could have been worded differently, without the s*xual overtones. You know, something about steel, and ovens, and such :lol:.

 

I like your note. And also, how did they deal with it when it came up during group time? I would want to know that.

[Stacie]

Mercy Sakes Alive? What were they thinking?

 

I'd have to do this in person.... are they nuts? Go to them and ask them exactly what are we trying to accomplish with this? I mean, walk up to them and shove the paper under their noses and then stand there with your mouth hanging open and a "what the %#$@ is this?" look on your face!

 

Pastor absolutely needs to see this. I don't care if they didn't know it was there, that only makes them negligent AND stupid, or worse.

 

And BTW, I want to know what kind of candy that's describing, because I'm too dense to figure it out for myself, and I'm pretty sure I never want to eat any of it.

 

ETA- AND ANOTHER THING.........I'd want an apology in writing to each child/family involved, or I'd have their jobs. This is a major mistake and they need to own up to it.

 

ETA again.........Tell them to send me an apology too while they're at it.

 

 

:iagree:

 

And carry the paper in with the tips of two fingers, like it disgusts you to the point of not touching it!

 

I'm in the "what were they thinking" and "it must be elevated to the Sr. Pastor level" camp. It seems to be a crowded place.

 

I'm just...dumbfounded...beyond comprehension...:confused:

[Aggie]

I emailed Youth Specialties when I first read the op this afternoon, because, quite frankly, I was incredibly horrified...along the lines of Ellie and Remudamom, but I didn't post my shock here. I want to see what their reasoning is behind a game like this for teens.

 

They still haven't emailed back, but there were a few things in their 'store' that *I* find questionable. Not everyone would, of course.

 

If I get a response, I'll post here. :)

[Lizzie in Ma]

I would call for sure. I would be horrified.

[HRAAB]

Holy Cow! And just when I think I've heard it all. Your girls are 11 and 13? I can't even find words. My dh would have to restrain me. I'd be in their face!

 

Janet

[forty-two]

Well, I asked my dh, who has worked as a youth pastor, how he would prefer a parent to bring up this concern. His advice was to show the yp the quiz, say you were shocked & slightly embarrassed by 5&15, and ask if he knew those two were in there. His answer should let you know if it was intentional or accidental, and whether he thinks it is appropriate or not, or at least give you enough info for a follow-up q. No need to assume the worst - that he is fine with it - unless and until he confirms it for you.

 

Dh also says to please, please NOT bring the sr pastor into it *until* you have spoken to the yp and determined it is more than just a mistake. It is a horrible feeling to have people constantly go over your head with complaints without even bothering to talk to you about it.

[Frontier Mom]

Well, I asked my dh, who has worked as a youth pastor, how he would prefer a parent to bring up this concern. His advice was to show the yp the quiz, say you were shocked & slightly embarrassed by 5&15, and ask if he knew those two were in there. His answer should let you know if it was intentional or accidental, and whether he thinks it is appropriate or not, or at least give you enough info for a follow-up q. No need to assume the worst - that he is fine with it - unless and until he confirms it for you.

 

Dh also says to please, please NOT bring the sr pastor into it *until* you have spoken to the yp and determined it is more than just a mistake. It is a horrible feeling to have people constantly go over your head with complaints without even bothering to talk to you about it.

 

With my dh being a Senior Pastor, I think he would want the person to have spoken to the YP first. Believe me, not that this isn't a big deal, but the YP is being paid for a leadership position and should be asked about this first. I would say respect the Senior Pastor's time and speak with the YP first. If they blow you off, then I would take it to the SP.

 

Also, as someone that also works at the church, please talk with them. People firing off emails really burns me up. It just comes across wrong. Your children will be watching how you handle this so I suggest you confront the YP face to face.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I would be kind of sad, personally, if my 11 or 13 year old had not read enough to encountered the word libidinous before. Most 11 and 13 year olds know the meaning of the word sexy- I would much rather have this word used than the word sexy. As for the word labial, I can't see anything wrong with it being used in the context of lips. I think if kids are freaking out over it, it should be the job of the adult to remind the children that mature people don't giggle about stuff like that, but instead treat it very matter-of-factly- even though most 11 yo's I know would giggle, that's what 11 yo's do and I have seen them giggle when talking about the staff of Moses for goodness sakes- they still should be modeled appropriate reactions. That way they don't grow up to hear the word labial and automatically go "down there" or think of the staff of Moses as a dirty thing.

 

I couldn't see anyone at my church freaking out over this. I would imagine if brought to my pastor, he would simply explain the actual meanings of the words and urge the parent that kids giggling over words at that age is normal. However, if you are in a church where you feel parents would for some reason not want their teenagers exposed to those terms, by all means let the youth director or other parents know. Perhaps the Youth director thought the same way I think a lot of people would in that those words are common words.

 

FWIW- just for fun, here is a similar list of riddles about candies.

 

1. A famous swashbuckling trio of old:

 

2. Elmer Fudd's sleight-of-hand or magical maneuvers:

 

3. Places of interring enemies of those who tend and drive cattle and who are usually mounted on domesticated, large solid-hoofed, herbivorous mammals:

 

4. A broad, luminous, irregular band of astral lights that encompasses the stellar sphere:

 

5. Crimson-colored libidinous cravings:

 

6. A celestial body fourth in order from the sun, conspicuous for the redness of its light; its planetary symbol is:

 

7. The hard, fibrous xylem substance produced by the Aquifoliaceae family of shrubs and trees, characterized by their thick, glossy, spiny-margined leaves and usually bright red berries:

 

8. Author William Sidney Porter's pseudonym:

 

9. Multiple expressions of mirth, joy, or scorn in a covert or suppressed manner:

 

10. An idiom, used here singularly, employed to describe one whose dexterous deficiency denies proficiency in getting a grip on goods:

 

11. Possessive clone alphabetical characters:

 

12. A saloon named after the newspaper-reporter alias of a superhero:

[sassenach]

Well, I asked my dh, who has worked as a youth pastor, how he would prefer a parent to bring up this concern. His advice was to show the yp the quiz, say you were shocked & slightly embarrassed by 5&15, and ask if he knew those two were in there. His answer should let you know if it was intentional or accidental, and whether he thinks it is appropriate or not, or at least give you enough info for a follow-up q. No need to assume the worst - that he is fine with it - unless and until he confirms it for you.

 

Dh also says to please, please NOT bring the sr pastor into it *until* you have spoken to the yp and determined it is more than just a mistake. It is a horrible feeling to have people constantly go over your head with complaints without even bothering to talk to you about it.

:iagree::iagree:

 

I agree with all of this post, but especially the bold. My dh is also a Youth Pastor. A Youth Pastor is not a jr pastor, but a fully functioning, ordained pastor. There is no reason to go over his head, unless the responses you get are unacceptable. I'm familiar with Youth Specialties (in fact, dh left today for a YS conference), and I'm really shocked that this content got through. I've never seen anything of this sort in YS material before. DH doesn't really use their materials often, but I'll have to give him a heads up on this. When a pastor uses material like this (especially stuff for games), he doesn't always comb through every sentence. Generally, you expect an organization like YS, which has a good reputation to not need to be heavily screened.

 

So my suggestion is to discuss this in person and please give the pastor the benefit of the doubt, until he gets a chance to explain it himself.

 

hth

[Remudamom]

Regardless of teen giggling and meanings of words this was inappropriate. Of course they know the meanings. It's just inappropriate. And a youth pastor of all people should know this.

 

I'm sure they know the meaning of the word "sexy", but that doesn't mean they need to sit around discussing it and laughing over it. That's not the point. The point is............it's inappropriate for a youth group.

 

Do y'all get that I thought this was inappropriate?

[Spy Car]

It's not too often I get to come down on the "conservative" side of things on this board, but the game questions quoted strike me as beyond inappropriate for any "youth group".

 

I would certainly discuss it with the Youth Pastor, but I would do it calmly. There is a good chance they are mortified and embarrassed, and going in with "guns-blazing" really won't help anything.

 

If you don't get the response you expect, I certainly would not hold my tongue, and would certainly take it up the chain of command. But it is hard to imagine they intended to to be so prurient, no?

 

If there was someone who might get a tongue-lashing (of the verbal sort, let me make that clear :tongue_smilie:) it would be the folks at Youth Specialties. The president of that company would be getting a phone call s/he might not entirely enjoy. But what were they thinking?

 

Bill (who does not innuendo aimed at children :glare:)

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I dunno- When I saw "Crimson Colored Libidinous Cravings" I thought "Red Hots" and when I saw "Labial Massage" I thought of Hershey's Kisses. I didn't think of it as innuendo but I can see how an 11 year old might.

[jmgconner]

With my dh being a Senior Pastor, I think he would want the person to have spoken to the YP first. Believe me, not that this isn't a big deal, but the YP is being paid for a leadership position and should be asked about this first. I would say respect the Senior Pastor's time and speak with the YP first. If they blow you off, then I would take it to the SP.

 

Also, as someone that also works at the church, please talk with them. People firing off emails really burns me up. It just comes across wrong. Your children will be watching how you handle this so I suggest you confront the YP face to face.

 

I don't think anyone on this thread has said to jump over the youth pastor and go straight to the senior pastor. I agree with everyone who said that the senior pastor needs to be let in on the situation. It could be as simple as saying to the senior pastor that you are pursuing the situation with the youth pastor and you simply want him to be aware of it. Of course, I'm approaching this from my own experiences and background. Our church has a youth leader, but he's not a minister in the same way that our senior pastor is ordained, recognized by the church, etc.

 

Also, I do not believe that OP is "firing off an email". She came here to get wording help. She wants to address the situation but do so in a calm, compassionate manner.

 

Regardless of teen giggling and meanings of words this was inappropriate. Of course they know the meanings. It's just inappropriate. And a youth pastor of all people should know this.

 

I'm sure they know the meaning of the word "sexy", but that doesn't mean they need to sit around discussing it and laughing over it. That's not the point. The point is............it's inappropriate for a youth group.

 

 

:iagree:

[5wolfcubs]

Thanks, everyone...I've been stewing about this all day. I emailed only the Youth Pastor the following after reading your responses:

 

Shocked and slightly embarrassed by numbers 5 & 15, I have to ask -- is this standard fare for youth group? Did you know they were in there before handing the papers out? How were these particular answers discussed?

 

Thanks,

Lee

 

PS Okay, I'm more then *slightly* embarrassed...otherwise, I would have called to discuss this.

 

Maybe this is considered acceptable, par for the course, relating to teens- type stuff at this church. Hopefully, I'll get a reply that lets me know where they stand. I was really hoping for ministry OF the youth, without the lascivious references.

 

I do appreciate the point you made, Jedi Mom, about the opportunity for the adults to talk about maturity/giggling...I hadn't considered that angle! Please do post if you get a response from YS, Aggie!

[sunshine]

My children and I have been at a small church for almost a year.

OK, now you will all see my neurosis: Small Churches are targets too. Not just large ones.

 

Last night they came home with a "Candy Quiz" published by the ministry "Youth Specialties" with two phrases that I found...umm, slightly distressing.

"Crimson-colored libidinous cravings" and "labial massage" :blushing: the answers being different types of candies. They did the quiz in pairs (my girls were together) and then the answers were read and, presumably, laughed over.

 

If the answers were read, then the Youth Pastor knows they are there. My first red flag.

 

I haven't discussed it with them yet. I don't want to if it went completely over their heads...but it probably didn't. AND I want to send a note to the couple who runs the youth group. But don't know how to word it. I don't want to be accusatroy...I guess I just want to know if it is par for the course. Then I have to decide if we stay the course.

 

You don't have to be accusatory, what you are doing is completely normal. What they are doing, allowing this, is not.

 

I was thinking of something casual along the lines of "Shocked and slightly embarrassed by numbers 5 & 15, I have to ask -- is this standard fare for youth group?" And see what they say.

 

Appalled, enraged with Godly anger, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, etc... is more along the lines of what I would say. We are talking about your children here, you have a right and an obligation to make sure no adults show them things like that.

Sound good, or should I be more shocked and embarrassed? :lol:

 

More shocked, not embarassed, infuriated maybe.

 

Go straight to the Senior Pastor, if he does nothing, go to the Deacons. Make sure this guys background is checked. It wouldn't be the first time a pedophile was a youth pastor.

 

We are very active in our youth program. I am good friends of the Pastor and his wife, I will forward this to him and see what he says, but I can tell you that most parents did not read that quiz. I am impressed that you did. And I doubt that any child took it to their parent either. And that is something that pedophiles depend on.

 

Well there ya go, I guess I will go medicate myself for paranoia to please those who think I am nuts to think this. But I wish I had a secret agent to come to your church and investigate this man.

[Danestress]

And I would understand it better if there had been an email or a phone call right after the youth group meeting saying, "Gosh, we thought you should know that we were playing a game at the youth group tonight, and there was some material in there that was totally inappropriate. Here is what happened ....... We've used materials form this organization before and never had a problem. I'm so so sorry and wanted you to know."

 

But it's Thursday today. No one has apparently contacted the parents of these kids. It would seem that whoever was supervising is just hoping that the parents aren't going to find out and get upset.

 

I always deal well with honesty and transparency. I don't deal as well with, "sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen."

 

I would be especially annoyed that now it is five days from the day this material was put in front of my daughter in a mixed gender group, and there has been no discussion or apology.

 

I love our youth pastor (who is not ordained yet, though he is working on it, and not all YPs are ordained, but even if they are, that's really not the issue).

 

If the YP came clean right off the bat, I would be very forgiving and honestly, not THAT worked up about it. But when days go by? I think it's okay to email both pastors about it. It's not like the senior pastor is an idiot who is just going to fire someone over an honest mistake. But I do think that the senior pastor and the youth pastor need to discuss how to better handle something like this happening, especially since in my experience, youth pastors often don't have teenaged children themselves, and might under-estimate the extent to which more mature adults would expect to be included in their teen-aged children's teaching.

[Ellie]

Dh also says to please, please NOT bring the sr pastor into it *until* you have spoken to the yp and determined it is more than just a mistake. It is a horrible feeling to have people constantly go over your head with complaints without even bothering to talk to you about it.

 

AMEN.:iagree:

[WTMindy]

I'm sorry, but I'm just chuckling about the bonehead who put this game together thinking, "Let's look up lips in the thesarus" and didn't realize what they were typing!! It is a synonym for lips, but with a much different connotation (especially when you tack on the massage part)!! LOL!!

 

By the way, I would be upset if my kid came home from youth group with that, but there is a part of me that is giggling about the whole thing.

[Hillary in KS]

It was probably a mistake. I can see YP simply copying something from the workbook, assuming that nothing untoward would ever be in there.

 

BUT!!! (And it's a big but...) I wouldn't e-mail. I would speak with him face-to-face. Or call, if I absolutely couldn't go down there. E-mail is for questions or simple topics. Concerns like this need to be dealt with face-to-face.

 

And I absolutely agree with the poster who said to wait and see how YP responds before bringing in the senior pastor.

[frogpond1]

http://books.google.com/books?id=jQ44K51lfBoC&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=candy+quiz+labial+massage&source=web&ots=elhc3pGBTj&sig=MHkw6d2XCfvjm7gnWuugqzafm70&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

[Cricket]

Well, Lee, let us know what reply you get! (I have to say, WTMindy's post has me laughing.)

[5wolfcubs]

Well, I have yet to hear back from the youth group leader, so I forwarded my note to the pastor (I had planned to bring the paper on Sunday, but the kids are sick). I let him know I hadn't heard back, wrote out the phrases so he could see what I was actually concerned about, and asked "Is this par for course for the youth group?"

 

I'm calmer and less offended then I was initially. But still embarrassed. :)

[Frontier Mom]

Well, I have yet to hear back from the youth group leader, so I forwarded my note to the pastor (I had planned to bring the paper on Sunday, but the kids are sick). I let him know I hadn't heard back, wrote out the phrases so he could see what I was actually concerned about, and asked "Is this par for course for the youth group?"

 

I'm calmer and less offended then I was initially. But still embarrassed. :)

 

Hope you get a resolution.

[5wolfcubs]

I forwarded my note to the pastor, as I hadn't heard from youth pastor (he's on vacation). I got a lengthy reply from the pastor saying that this particular handout is standard and most of the more successful youth ministries in the area use the publisher. The church staff is trying to meet teens where they are at and he wants "edgy" in teens.

 

In reflecting on this, I can see the church's position. The youth pastor is a high school teacher. All the other kids in the youth group are ps'd. But mine aren't. I don't want to keep attending the church if we can't grow with it, so to speak.

 

I'm still mulling this over. Next step, is to talk to my dh...

 

PS Sorry, Remudamom, no apology will be forthcoming!

[Spy Car]

I forwarded my note to the pastor, as I hadn't heard from youth pastor (he's on vacation). I got a lengthy reply from the pastor saying that this particular handout is standard and most of the more successful youth ministries in the area use the publisher. The church staff is trying to meet teens where they are at and he wants "edgy" in teens.

 

In reflecting on this, I can see the church's position. The youth pastor is a high school teacher. All the other kids in the youth group are ps'd. But mine aren't. I don't want to keep attending the church if we can't grow with it, so to speak.

 

I'm still mulling this over. Next step, is to talk to my dh...

 

PS Sorry, Remudamom, no apology will be forthcoming!

 

I'm really surprised (shocked?) at the response.

 

This is not an answer I'd find "acceptable" in any degree.

 

Bill (who has his "conservative" side)

[Renai]

 

I'm still mulling this over. Next step, is to talk to my dh...

 

PS Sorry, Remudamom, no apology will be forthcoming!

 

What did your dh say in the beginning? Maybe he should have been the one to write the first note (unless he's like mine and leaves the writing to me :tongue_smilie:)? I know I said I wouldn't be shocked over the quiz wording (over my initial shock), but the attitude of purposely wanting to be worldly is beyond me :confused:. We're in the world, not of it.

[Tess in the Burbs]

We had been attending a church this year and when something questionable came up we really prayed before deciding to move on. I did write a nice letter to the pastor who had heard we were no longer coming and asked me why. But his response defended his staff and wished us well. It didn't matter that it wasn't church appropriate or that someone left because of it...and I was shocked.

 

so heads up they may blow you off and then you really have to decide...do you stay and hope it doesn't happen again? or do you leave now while the 'my kids are shy and after a month it wasn't the right group for them' is still applicable and they haven't made too many ties.

 

hard situation and having done it recently here's a hug for you :grouphug:

[shell in SC]

I forwarded my note to the pastor, as I hadn't heard from youth pastor (he's on vacation). I got a lengthy reply from the pastor saying that this particular handout is standard and most of the more successful youth ministries in the area use the publisher. The church staff is trying to meet teens where they are at and he wants "edgy" in teens.

 

In reflecting on this, I can see the church's position. The youth pastor is a high school teacher. All the other kids in the youth group are ps'd. But mine aren't. I don't want to keep attending the church if we can't grow with it, so to speak.

 

I'm still mulling this over. Next step, is to talk to my dh...

 

PS Sorry, Remudamom, no apology will be forthcoming!

 

 

Here we go. . .everyone else is doing it. . .so that means it's OK. When I initially read your e-mail the day you posted I had thoughts going through my mind and I didn't think that I was going to respond, but now that your pastor has blown it off, I have to type this out so I feel better.

 

Obviously, their definition of success and mine are two different things! "Success" in a youth group, to me, is not getting more and more kids to come to our youth group by making it seem like a party. "Success" to me is taking the kids that you have (be it 2 or 200) and mentoring and discipling them. Letting them know that they have an adult in their life that they can come to or call at any hour of the day or night. No matter where they are in their spiritual walk (even if they haven't even started) they need to know that God loves them through everything a teen goes through and that the foundation is strong and deep.

 

There are games you can play that are fun. . .believe me. . .we've had some doozies, that build fellowship and comraderie. I'm not saying youth groups can't be fun, but I could think of at least a dozen other activities that are fun rather that a copied piece of paper with questionable material on it.

 

I think that part of the problem with youth groups today is that we are so quick to look online or go buy a book to get our lessons from that we don't even stop and think if it would be relevent to the kids in OUR group. . .not is it relevent to the group down the street at X church or relevent to what church movements as a whole are focusing on, but is it relevant to "teen tommy" sitting in the chair in front of me. Is this going to help him see God's love, is this going to help him get through his next tough situation with wisdom. I think so often youth leaders think that just because it's in a book means it's gotta be a proven success and it will work. This is so often not the case, and just b/c a youth group is "Fun" doesn't mean it's having a positive effect on your child.

 

DH and I were youth leaders at a previous church and I'm sure there are some on this board, so I'm not saying this to slam anybody, and if any one is offended by anything I've said maybe it's b/c God is speaking to you.

 

Many times DH would have a little lesson planned. . .that he didn't need to get out of a YS book, and by the time he stood up in front of them. . .he had changed the lesson to something else. It was what God laid on his heart. It had nothing to do with what was written in a "Youth" guide, it was based on what was written in the bible. I don't think I'd be able to find ANYTHING in MY bible that would support a "Name the Candy" game on a piece of paper.

 

Sorry this got to be so long. . .I'm passionate about helping youth cause it's tough for some of them. . .and I will get up on my soap box any day of the week to discuss this b/c from what I see, we get it all wrong with trying to be so worldly. We're missing the mark b/c we want our youth group to be large and it's just wrong.

 

Ok I'm stepping off. . .and I hope this made sense it's kinda jumbled in my head.

[KayT]

5wolfcubs, so sorry this happened and about the response you received from the pastor. I am not a fan of youthgroups, we had very bad experiences with them with our older dd's. None of my other dd's will ever be attending youth group.

 

Of course my experience is just that...mine...but I would get them out and never return.

[HRAAB]

I forwarded my note to the pastor, as I hadn't heard from youth pastor (he's on vacation). I got a lengthy reply from the pastor saying that this particular handout is standard and most of the more successful youth ministries in the area use the publisher. The church staff is trying to meet teens where they are at and he wants "edgy" in teens.

 

In reflecting on this, I can see the church's position. The youth pastor is a high school teacher. All the other kids in the youth group are ps'd. But mine aren't. I don't want to keep attending the church if we can't grow with it, so to speak.

 

I'm still mulling this over. Next step, is to talk to my dh...

 

PS Sorry, Remudamom, no apology will be forthcoming!

 

I do not get this attitude, especially from a church. I've seen it myself too often. Lower the standards because everyone does it, but never raise the bar so they can grow. For some odd reason I expect more from church than what we get from public schools.

 

Janet

[Jackie in AR]

I got a lengthy reply from the pastor saying that this particular handout is standard and most of the more successful youth ministries in the area use the publisher. The church staff is trying to meet teens where they are at and he wants "edgy" in teens.

 

My next correspondence with the pastor would be to ask him to define what a successful youth ministry looks like. I understand about seeker churches, and I believe they serve a purpose. It sounds like this youth group is targeting seekers, but is bending over backwards to be as much like the world as they can in the process. "Edgy" is not a quality I'm looking for in my teenagers; perhaps he defines it differently than I do.

 

In all honesty, I am stunned at your pastor's response, Lee. I'll pray for discernment for you as you decide how your family will proceed.

[Tonia]

My next correspondence with the pastor would be to ask him to define what a successful youth ministry looks like. I understand about seeker churches, and I believe they serve a purpose. It sounds like this youth group is targeting seekers, but is bending over backwards to be as much like the world as they can in the process. "Edgy" is not a quality I'm looking for in my teenagers; perhaps he defines it differently than I do.

 

In all honesty, I am stunned at your pastor's response, Lee. I'll pray for discernment for you as you decide how your family will proceed.

 

Reminds me of an article I read once (about how the church takes things from "the world" and tries to clean them up) "... What makes the stuff so thin, so weak and cumulatively so demoralizing (even to me, a sympathetic journalist who'd secretly love to play the brash contrarian and rate the Left Behind books above Tom Clancy) has nothing to do with faith. The problem is lack of faith. . . a bad Xerox of the mainstream, not a truly distinctive or separate achievement. Without the courage to lead, it numbly follows, picking up the major media's scraps and gluing them back together with a cross on top." (emphasis mine)

[mazakaal]

Wow. I'm shocked that was his response. I would not go back to that church. If that is their methodology and their values, I would not want to be a part of it AT ALL. Youth group should be hip enough so the kids want to be there, but it should be an opportunity to teach the kids the Word, to train them to be young men and women after God's own heart. Crude jokes do nothing to lead a person to Christ. It really saddens me that some churches stoop to this level. It's not really what Jesus had in mind IMO.

[Paula in MS]

I would love to be a fly on the wall in this youth group. What did this activity have to do with God. Is the focus on God at all? If I were you, I would sit in on some of the activities to be sure there is a spiritual focus to the meetings. If not, I would move on.

 

Paula

[NevadaRabbit]

I dunno- When I saw "Crimson Colored Libidinous Cravings" I thought "Red Hots" and when I saw "Labial Massage" I thought of Hershey's Kisses. I didn't think of it as innuendo but I can see how an 11 year old might.

 

:D That's it. Those of us who would be concerned must have the maturity of an 11 year old! Oh, to have the ripe fullness of wisdom of the Jedi, but alas. I still giggle at wind-breaking. I'm probably somewhere in the 9 or 10 year old category.

 

To the OP - I'd say for the vast majority, "labial massage" and "innuendo" go hand-in-hand. Go talk to that youth pastor.

[Harriet Vane]

Your pastor's reply would certainly give me pause. I find it disturbing.

 

Before I elaborate, I should establish that I am very supportive of the idea of tailoring the church's approach to its audience. I live in a difficult urban environment. My church has to constantly tailor its outreach to a combination of middle-class white kids from the suburbs and blue collar kids of both colors as well as lower class and welfare kids from the city. Believe me, we have a lot of experience in trying to create an environment that is welcoming and comfortable for a specific audience.

 

Having said that, I think your pastor's defense of this worksheet is unacceptable.

 

To argue that the resource is okay because of who published it is nonsensical. I worked in Christian publishing for seven years. Resources are published by and large because they make money, and the screening process is only as strong as the fallible humans doing the screening. Walk into ANY religious bookstore and you will find materials somewhere that are biblically, morally questionable DESPITE the best efforts of those who sincerely try to serve God in this business.

 

To argue that the resource is okay because others use it is also nonsensical. Didn't our mothers all say, "If all your friends jumped off a cliff would you jump too?" The question is NOT whether or not others use it, the question is whether or not that resource upholds the truth of God as presented in the Bible.

 

To argue that the resource is okay because it reflects the youth and is "edgy" is a sad, sad commentary. He is mixing issues of STYLE with issues of MORALITY. Anything the church uses or produces should reflect the truth of GOD, not the fallible audience using those resources. The truth of God can be reflected in a style that is comfortable to the youth, but it must never, ever compromise the morality God has given in the Bible. If such a resource crosses that line, then it no longer reflects the truth of God but rather the philosophy of the world around us. We are in the world constantly--the church should NOT be exactly like the world, but should present a different reality: that of GOD.

[kalanamak]

 

In reflecting on this, I can see the church's position. The youth pastor is a high school teacher. All the other kids in the youth group are ps'd. But mine aren't. I don't want to keep attending the church if we can't grow with it, so to speak.

!

 

Perhaps this is the wrong youth group for your kids. One size does not fit all. Is the rest of the church something you'd like or were you just there for this youth group?

[Ellie]

I forwarded my note to the pastor, as I hadn't heard from youth pastor (he's on vacation). I got a lengthy reply from the pastor saying that this particular handout is standard and most of the more successful youth ministries in the area use the publisher. The church staff is trying to meet teens where they are at and he wants "edgy" in teens.

"edgy"? He wants to "meet teens where they are at"??? Well, where they are "at" (oh, the pain of that grammar, lol) is that they are sinners needing to be saved by grace. Those who are already saved need to be discipled. They don't need to be "edgy."

 

In reflecting on this, I can see the church's position. The youth pastor is a high school teacher. All the other kids in the youth group are ps'd. But mine aren't. I don't want to keep attending the church if we can't grow with it, so to speak.

I can't see the church's position. That the other dc are ps'd is irrelevant. It isn't that you can't grow with the church; it is that you see where the line in the sand is and you aren't willing to cross over it. Too bad your church leadership has decided to do so.

 

I'm still mulling this over. Next step, is to talk to my dh...

Good idea. FTR, my dh would already have us out the door. Goodness.