Was this a fake service dog??

[Moxie]

At WM today, a woman with an oxygen tank had a dog that was wearing a vest that said "service dog". I was getting yogurt and heard yelling. I looked over and the dog was squatting and she was yelling at it and pulling on the leash. She pulled him aside and he pooped in WM!! I though service dogs were VERY well trained??

[TranquilMind]

At WM today, a woman with an oxygen tank had a dog that was wearing a vest that said "service dog". I was getting yogurt and heard yelling. I looked over and the dog was squatting and she was yelling at it and pulling on the leash. She pulled him aside and he pooped in WM!! I though service dogs were VERY well trained??

 

Not a service dog; they don't do that absent the most extreme circumstances (as in the dog had been in the store for 15 hours). 

 

A pet she wanted to take with her with a vest she bought online.   Or possibly an "emotional support animal". 

[hornblower]

Almost undoubtedly fake. 

 

[Valley Girl]

Gross. And everybody evidently just has to put up with that kind of thing because--because based on a previous thread--businesses evidently aren't allowed to actually DO anything about people who abuse the service dog label. I don't have any problem with genuine service animals. I think they're great. But the phony ones and the emotional support animals? C'mon.

[theelfqueen]

Gross. And everybody evidently just has to put up with that kind of thing because--because based on a previous thread--businesses evidently aren't allowed to actually DO anything about people who abuse the service dog label. I don't have any problem with genuine service animals. I think they're great. But the phony ones and the emotional support animals? C'mon.

 

Actually - a business owner CAN ask a dog that isn't 'housetrained' to leave... even a service dog.

 

Quick search brings up this one... there's a lot more specific articles out there:

http://www.anythingpawsable.com/things-service-dogs-public/#.V1nlLjVvtDo

[Valley Girl]

Actually - a business owner CAN ask a dog that isn't 'housetrained' to leave... even a service dog.

 

Quick search brings up this one... there's a lot more specific articles out there:

http://www.anythingpawsable.com/things-service-dogs-public/#.V1nlLjVvtDo

 

But by that time you know an animal isn't housetrained, it's too late. The mess has already been made. (It's especially fun when it's on carpet as some stores have.)

 

I'm going by what was discussed on a thread a couple of weeks back. (I'm having trouble finding thread but will keep looking.) In that thread, I got the impression that businesses can't ask people to provide any documentation that an animal is a legitimate, trained service animal.

[jeremmy]

Probably an emotional support animal. I worked at Walmart for 5 years a while ago and we weren't allowed to say anything if they claimed it was a service animal of any type. We had people bring in mini horses, pigs, snakes, cats, parrots...doubt any of them were house trained.

[goldberry]

Actually - a business owner CAN ask a dog that isn't 'housetrained' to leave... even a service dog.

 

Quick search brings up this one... there's a lot more specific articles out there:

http://www.anythingpawsable.com/things-service-dogs-public/#.V1nlLjVvtDo

 

That's very informative, only most business act like the one in the story and are afraid to do anything.  They are easily bullied by the customer with the dog.

[poppy]

Therapy dog is my bet.

[wintermom]

Just did a quick check, and you can easily buy "service dog vests" on eBay. Doesn't mean the dog has any official training through a reputable association, unless the dog has a specific vest with the association's name on it.  A service dog-in-training may have an accident in a store, which has happened to me with one of my puppies. I quickly clean up the mess and work hard on ensuring it doesn't happen again. Just because the animal is a service dog doesn't mean it isn't a dog anymore, and sometimes accidents happen. 

[PrincessMommy]

That's very informative, only most business act like the one in the story and are afraid to do anything.  They are easily bullied by the customer with the dog.

 

and with iPhone/android and a Twitter account.

Edited June 9, 2016 by PrincessMommy

[gardenmom5]

service dogs perform specific services for which they have been trained.  I've seen legitimate service dogs that aren't wearing a vest.

 

this one - you can buy  mass produced vests online for cheap.  along with printed  certificates that are worth less than the paper on which they're printed.  she could probably produce one of those too.

[gardenmom5]

Probably an emotional support animal. I worked at Walmart for 5 years a while ago and we weren't allowed to say anything if they claimed it was a service animal of any type. We had people bring in mini horses, pigs, snakes, cats, parrots...doubt any of them were house trained.

 

 

they do NOT have the same legal rights as a bona fide service animal.

[Guest]

Probably an emotional support animal. I worked at Walmart for 5 years a while ago and we weren't allowed to say anything if they claimed it was a service animal of any type. We had people bring in mini horses, pigs, snakes, cats, parrots...doubt any of them were house trained.

 

Wow a service cat- Ha! I can just see it- they  help you when they feel in the mood, but then they suddenly jump up and run away!  :ph34r:

[katilac]

they do NOT have the same legal rights as a bona fide service animal.

 

The problem is that there is no clear agreement as to what constitutes a "bona fide" service animal. All the law states is that the animal must be individually trained to provide service to a person with a disability. Yes, it is supposed to be specific tasks directly related to the disability, so therapy animals don't officially count, but all the person has to do is say "it's a service dog." 

 

No documentation required. 

 

Edited to add that I do see that businesses can now ask what specific task the animal is trained to perform. If the person gives a non-specific task in answer, they can be informed the animal has to leave (if it's emotional support, etc.). 

Edited June 10, 2016 by katilac

[inmyopinion]

Actually knew someone with a trained service dog who would have accidents indoors.  The owner never continued with the training nor did she properly care for the dog,  The dog ended up being hit by a car while running in the street.   I would think this is rare, and would have found it hard to believe if I had not seen it with my own eyes.   

[zimom]

I think several of you have seen me post regarding my daughter's service dog before.  If you haven't, you might want to find my old posts, or there are a couple of people on here that know me IRL.  

 

Anyway, my daughter has a service dog.  A REAL service dog.  Her service dog is from what I consider one of the best organizations in the country.  Y, her dog, is an amazing, incredible dog.  She was trained for the first 2 1/2 years of her life, we went through an intensive 24/7, 2 week training before she was placed with us.  She is certified and we are re-certified every 1-3 years depending on what the organization decides.  Y is now 8 1/2 years old.  go to   cci.org     That is Y in my profile pic.  

 

I feel very confident picking out a fake service dog, usually in about 5 seconds.  

 

All that to say, the last time we had our testing to be recertified, she went to the bathroom in the mall right before testing began.  It is the only time she has had an accident in a public place.    As they told us in training, dogs are dogs.  They are not computers.  There will be problems, accidents occasionally.  Don't freak.    So yes, I was embarrassed, but I quickly cleaned it up and continued on.   I'm sure there are many of you that have housebroken dogs that have had an occasional accident.  I just didn't read her right that day.  We had been in the car for several hours, we were out of town.  It just happened.  

 

So the dog may have been real or fake.  More info would have been needed.  I would wonder how the person acted.  How was the dog acting otherwise?  

[zimom]

Wow a service cat- Ha! I can just see it- they  help you when they feel in the mood, but then they suddenly jump up and run away!  :ph34r:

 

The law now states that services animals can only be dogs or occasionally miniature horses.  

SaveSave

[gardenmom5]

Wow a service cat- Ha! I can just see it- they  help you when they feel in the mood, but then they suddenly jump up and run away!  :ph34r:

 

that cat would give service helping you down the stairs.  someone posted footage to youtube of a cat apparently drinking from a swimming pool. another cat walked up behind it - *flicked* their front foot out at the first cats rear end, and flipped it into the swimming pool.

 

Actually knew someone with a trained service dog who would have accidents indoors.  The owner never continued with the training nor did she properly care for the dog,  The dog ended up being hit by a car while running in the street.   I would think this is rare, and would have found it hard to believe if I had not seen it with my own eyes.   

 

is this one they paid thousands of dollars for who had been through, and completed, and "graduated", months of training to perform specific tasks  before they ever got it?

[zimom]

that cat would give service helping you down the stairs.  someone posted footage to youtube of a cat apparently drinking from a swimming pool. another cat walked up behind it - *flicked* their front foot out at the first cats rear end, and flipped it into the swimming pool.

 

 

is this one they paid thousands of dollars for who had been through, and completed, and "graduated", months of training to perform specific tasks  before they ever got it?

 

Just kind of wanted to comment on this, not that gardenmom5 addressed this to me...  

 

Since not only are there so many numerous fake service dogs, but there are so many sham service dog organizations that take thousands of $$ from people that desperately want a dog for themselves or a loved one but don't deliver what is promised, a well trained service dog.  Not only did the organization provide my daughter's dog for FREE, but the 2 weeks of training including accommodations was free too and we were not asked to do any fundraising nor was it every implied.  They continue to follow up with us, recertify us, and actually keep ownership of Y and the dogs so that if someone is not keeping up the training, not taking care of the dogs, they do have the ability to take back the dogs.  

Edited June 10, 2016 by zimom

[Calm37]

I saw a "fake" service dog attack and bite a child once at a church function. You cannot trust that vest, that's for sure.

[momto10blessings]

When you've got to go, you've got to go... Maybe it had diarrhea or had been constipated for the past week. I mean, it's disgusting, but it IS a dog and it has to go at some point.

[gardenmom5]

Just kind of wanted to comment on this, not that gardenmom5 addressed this to me...  

 

Since not only are there so many numerous fake service dogs, but there are so many sham service dog organizations that take thousands of $$ from people that desperately want a dog for themselves or a loved one but don't deliver what is promised, a well trained service dog.  Not only did the organization provide my daughter's dog for FREE, but the 2 weeks of training including accommodations was free too and we were not asked to do any fundraising nor was it every implied.  They continue to follow up with us, recertify us, and actually keep ownership of Y and the dogs so that if someone is not keeping up the training, not taking care of the dogs, they do have the ability to take back the dogs.  

 

it may depend upon the organization, and what specifically the dog is doing.

 

there was a fundraiser at church for a girl with severe issues (more than just her vision) to be able to get a service dog from a legitimate organization. 

 

 

I don't know how specifically trained ds's gfs dogs are for her disability (uncontrolled nocturnal epilepsy), I know they're thoroughly trained in other areas -  you can't train a dog to detect epilepsy.  they do or they don't.   if they do - you can train them to do more things.

[J-rap]

I've heard that it's actually pretty easy to get therapy dog status.  I have a relative who did that with her dog just so she could take him with her in the passenger area of an airplane, instead of sending him to the cargo area.  He was not really a therapy or a service dog, but she was able to get the therapy dog certificate quite easily for the airplane ride.  Someone suggested that to my dd when she was flying her sweet pup internationally when she and her dh moved back to the U.S., but she was absolutely opposed to faking it (even though he is extremely well-behaved), which I'm glad about.

[Pawz4me]

 

So the dog may have been real or fake.  More info would have been needed.  I would wonder how the person acted.  How was the dog acting otherwise?  

 

Moxie said in her original post that the handler was yelling at the dog and pulling on the leash. That to me was a huge indicator that this likely wasn't a real service dog. At least I would hope that anyone who has a legitimate service dog would have been instructed in proper handling for something like that.

[gardenmom5]

Moxie said in her original post that the handler was yelling at the dog and pulling on the leash. That to me was a huge indicator that this likely wasn't a real service dog. At least I would hope that anyone who has a legitimate service dog would have been instructed in proper handling for something like that.

 

I would also expect an actual service dog would be more willing to follow the commands of it's owner so even an inept owner wouldn't feel the need to drag the dog.

 

 

 

 

I've met too many dogs which are described as "well-behaved" by their owners.  um, no.  a well behaved dog follows commands without the owner constantly repeating them.   a well-behaved dog doesn't try to steal food from your plate (or sniff at your food, or attempt to guilt you into giving them some), or run off with someone's shoe, doesn't jump on people, or bolt out the door when you open it even though you are trying to block them from doing so,  . . . I could go on. 

 

if that was a legitimate service dog (which I doubt), I would imagine the training agency doesn't know how she treats the dog. (e.g. dragging it by the leash)  well behaved is more than housebroken or not barking at everything.

 

My mother had a papillion former show dog- she was very well behaved and extremely mellow.  (a good match for my mother.)  the only thing she ever refused to do was come within four feet when called IF you were standing-up.  not even for treats.   it is believed a former owner kicked her.  she was small - if you were sitting, or even squatting, she'd stop what she was doing and come immediately.  my mother was a very lax owner, but that dog  was *always* aware of where she was supposed to be in relation to her when leashed for a walk.   and that was in line with her owners leg.

[jeremmy]

they do NOT have the same legal rights as a bona fide service animal.

That's probably true legally. But lots of stores consider them the same and complaining won't do anything. Sometimes people would complain because their kid was seriously allergic and nothing would be done. It was crazy.

[Lady Florida.]

Last year, Florida made it a misdemeanor to misrepresent an animal as a service animal. It's still not easy to tell and the business owner can only ask two questions, but it's a start. 

[zimom]

Moxie said in her original post that the handler was yelling at the dog and pulling on the leash. That to me was a huge indicator that this likely wasn't a real service dog. At least I would hope that anyone who has a legitimate service dog would have been instructed in proper handling for something like that.

 

sorry, missed that.  was focused on the bathroom issue and just wanted to clarify that it DOES happen sometimes to a very well trained, very real service dog.

[gardenmom5]

That's probably true legally. But lots of stores consider them the same and complaining won't do anything. Sometimes people would complain because their kid was seriously allergic and nothing would be done. It was crazy.

 

the ONLY reason stores ever treat them the same is they are afraid of bad PR at the very least, and at worst - a lawsuit.  people who misrepresent their dogs will attempt to bully stores.

 

I'm getting sick and tired of seeing what are "pets" in stores.  and it's happening more and more.

[inmyopinion]

that cat would give service helping you down the stairs.  someone posted footage to youtube of a cat apparently drinking from a swimming pool. another cat walked up behind it - *flicked* their front foot out at the first cats rear end, and flipped it into the swimming pool.

 

 

is this one they paid thousands of dollars for who had been through, and completed, and "graduated", months of training to perform specific tasks  before they ever got it?

 The dog was trained professionally but she got it for free as part of a program.   The dog was able to alert properly and such, and they had worked together for about two weeks at the facility.    The owner did not have the capacity to care for the dog, which was part of a bigger problem this woman had.  It really was sad as the dog was helpful to her but the owner saw the dog as one more responsibility she could not handle.  Again, I know this is not the norm, but this dog would often urinate indoors b/c she would not take it out often enough and it was a little dog.  Some in our group would even offer to walk the dog when she would not.  

[gardenmom5]

 The dog was trained professionally but she got it for free as part of a program.   The dog was able to alert properly and such, and they had worked together for about two weeks at the facility.    The owner did not have the capacity to care for the dog, which was part of a bigger problem this woman had.  It really was sad as the dog was helpful to her but the owner saw the dog as one more responsibility she could not handle.  Again, I know this is not the norm, but this dog would often urinate indoors b/c she would not take it out often enough and it was a little dog.  Some in our group would even offer to walk the dog when she would not.  

 

I know there are agencies out there who do train them at no/minimal cost for the recipient. 

 

 sometimes the recipient does have to pay and it can be a lot.

[zimom]

Actually knew someone with a trained service dog who would have accidents indoors.  The owner never continued with the training nor did she properly care for the dog,  The dog ended up being hit by a car while running in the street.   I would think this is rare, and would have found it hard to believe if I had not seen it with my own eyes.   

 

Following up on all your posts.  This is so sad.  The fact the dog was provided free made me think it could have been the same organization we used except that you said it was a little dog.  The one our dog came from only uses labs, goldens, and mixes of the two.   I know some people shy away from the organization we use because they retain ownership of the dogs but when it comes down to it, it is for the dogs protection.  If you are doing what you are suppose to do, continuing training, exercising the dogs, keeping them healthy, KEEPING THEM LEASHED while outside (unless in a fenced in yard) so they won't be hit by a car, then there is no problem.  It is the owners that aren't great candidates in the first place, but unfortunately got through the vetting, that this is a safety net so the they can remove the dogs if needed.  

 

Yes, there are some great organizations that are free, and some great ones that charge, but bottom line is I caution everyone to do their homework.  And the organizations should be doing the best jobs possible vetting the people getting their dogs, free or not.  

[KungFuPanda]

Is a spazy yorkie ever a legitimate service animal? I can't imagine a service agency training purse dogs that have to be carried up the stairs.