Paying for Young Adult Children (college graduates)

[Jane in NC]

My son is a college grad who does not rely on us financially except to ask for advice.  We have maintained him on our family insurance plan since it is the best deal available but he will age out of that.

 

Upon graduation from college, my son began working in a traveling position that provided his hotel room, transportation and a meal allowance.  He basically lived on the per diem and saved his salary.  He has a healthy cash cushion for travel or to pay for expenses related to grad school.  We thought it silly for him to pay rent and utilities for a place if he was never there and told him he could just keep his stuff here. But I foresee this situation changing.  I think he is ready for a place of his own--even if he spends limited time there.

 

His friends who are college grads fall into a variety of circumstances. There are two in the New York.  One lives independently, the other with his parents.  The latter works in the family business.  To be honest, it would be challenging for a young person to find housing in that particular NY burb so the arrangement is a good one (and the parents have plenty of space).  Another of his friends moved home after his BA to attend a nearby university for his MA.  He is now moving across the country to work on his PhD.

 

I don't think it is unusual for parents to offer support as young adults find employment, grad school positions, determine just what the heck they want to do or where to go. In fact, we have seen that the arrangement can be a good one.  The young adults might be working on home improvement projects, shoveling snow, or helping grandma. 

 

I am concerned about one young adult whom we know who dropped out of college and cannot find work outside of restaurants or delis.  It seems that a lot of employers are quick to send part time workers home if the business is slow.  There were weeks when this young man only worked half of his scheduled hours. 

 

We have saved and invested well, but we have also inherited money.  My mother in law was quick to help her kids when they needed a hand.  My son has not needed financial help but I could easily step in to help with a down payment on a house if the circumstances were right.  We had saved enough for our first down payment but a little bit more helped us avoid PMI.  My mother in law was wise and generous to offer us the cash difference.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Jane in NC

[Haiku]

Once my kids are adults with college educations, I expect them to be independent of mom and dad's help (barring something catastrophic). I'm not going to keep raising my adult kids.

[TammyS]

I voted "No" to the co-signing because I believe it's bad for relationships.  I don't want to be anyone's debt collector, much less a grown child.  If I had the money, though, I might give them money toward a house.

 

I put "I might" to the other two questions because while the answer is mostly "no", if the circumstances were such that it was helping the YA move forward in some way (paying some rent while they took a fellowship or something) I would consider it.  So mostly I feel it's a "YA's" responsibility to support themselves, but I would be willing to offer some support to get them there if it made sense under the circumstances, if I could afford it - I would definitely not risk our finances to make it happen.

[creekland]

Assuming one has the financial means, I think it's foolish to rule out the possibility of ever helping your children with any of the things listed.  Because no one knows what situations we might find ourselves in.  There are economic issues that none of us can control, as well as the potential for accidents or physical/mental health issues to pop up.

 

My family culture is that families help each other and there is no arbitrary age at which that stops.  I've personally seen a little bit of help ("little" being relative to ones financial situation) go a very long way toward ensuring financial stability.  

 

Same here.  We're a family unit til death do us part.

 

No regrets.  I voted "depends upon circumstances" for all questions.

 

So far, oldest has graduated and is happily self-supporting, but we reminded him (and his wife) that we're always around if they need anything.

 

We'll likely support middle son through med school and beyond if needed.

 

Youngest has a guaranteed job after graduation - not sure it's one he'll take - but it's nice to have as a "safety."  Time will tell whether he'll need financial assistance or not.

 

In any event, all three tend to get extra $$ or gift cards now and then.  We still send presents and the occasional care package.  It's just who we are.

[DawnM]

This is a conversation I have found to be more and more common as my children and their friends are moving into adulthood.  The Boomerang generation is creating new pressures for their parents and causing a novel type of financial squeeze. No longer are parents finding themselves with increased disposable income once the final college tuition payment is made. 

 

I'm trying to make a poll about the most common types of expenses the people in my area are discussing:  mortgages, rent, & living expenses.  Student loans are the fourth but I didn't include that in the poll.

 

 

And given the scenario you posed......where a child is demanding it.....absolutely NOT!  There is no pressure here because if my child tried to tell us we somehow owed him......well, that would be a NO!  

 

But my kids haven't ever been demanding or told us we owe them anything.  They know they are welcome in our home for as long as they need.  

[SKL]

I can't predict the future, but it seems to me that giving young adults support when they don't *need* it could prevent them from discovering their own abilities / self-sufficiency.  I would always weigh that long-term effect against any temptation to "help out" in the short term.

 

So in that sense, I'm glad my parents didn't have the choice to make.

 

I see others in my life who received support and give support and it's like a perfect circle.  That's great I guess, but if anything ever happened and that person had to stand alone, could s/he?  My own family background is so different that I am not sure how to merge the two.

[lllll]

This is a conversation I have found to be more and more common as my children and their friends are moving into adulthood.  The Boomerang generation is creating new pressures for their parents and causing a novel type of financial squeeze. No longer are parents finding themselves with increased disposable income once the final college tuition payment is made. 

 

I'm trying to make a poll about the most common types of expenses the people in my area are discussing:  mortgages, rent, & living expenses.  Student loans are the fourth but I didn't include that in the poll.

 

It all depends on the circumstances and the kid.  (Our oldest, ps'ed kid has been married for quite a while and is lousy with money, declared bankruptcy a few times, etc.  I seriously doubt we would ever be involved in anything financial with him.)  In my younger years, I had the idea that they would all be gone by 18yo, on their own.  As I've gotten older, and so many things have changed - in our own family and in our country - I don't make blanket statements like that anymore. 

 

Our general attitude is that we'll help as much as we can.  We currently pay all the expenses on our other 5 kids' apartment while they all attend the same college.  It just all worked out so that we could do that and all of us could avoid all debt; no way any of us could have predicted that.  But that apartment is also our 'official residence', and, should dh's job end here, we would be moving into that apartment with any kids still there while we figure out where to go from there.  

 

As dc graduate, they'll have the option of staying in the apartment and working, or continuing into grad school nearby, as long as we have the apartment.  At this point, we have no idea how all that would go.  The first one graduates in December.  She loves learning and does excellent in school, but "hates institutional education", so I doubt she'll go to grad school.  She's spending the summer looking at all her options.

 

Another one is talking about getting married.  We won't be paying for anything there - wedding, car, rent, etc.  Not as long as the others are still in college.  Ds knows that and plans accordingly.  He's also nearing graduation and is evaluating all his options.  His girlfriend just asked middle dd to help her make her wedding dress.  Last I heard, they were planning a justice of the peace thing.  But they won't be moving into the apartment with the other 4.

 

Any of them (except oldest mentioned above ... besides the money thing, he and dh clash) are always welcome to live with us and do whatever they want - work, school, whatever - as long as they want to.  That's entirely up to them.  I would LOVE it if they wanted to do that, but none of them like it up here, so I'm not holding out much hope for that. 

 

Generally, I think all 7 of us will be doing a lot of moving due to changing circumstances for the next 10 years or more.  No way to predict anything.         

Edited May 23, 2016 by _ ?^..

[Jane in NC]

Same here.  We're a family unit til death do us part.

 

 

We seem to have these sorts of "family culture" discussions on the boards regularly.

 

There are some who have said 18 is the magical cut off age; others see a college diploma.  I fail to see life defined by black and white issues so everything "depends"..

 

We did not shower our now adult son with stuff when he was younger.  Instead we saved our dollars for travel and his college fund (as well as retirement, of course).  We figured that the greatest gift we could give our son was a college education, funded to the best of our circumstances.  As it turned out, because of his generous merit aid, we could cover the difference (although he used his earnings for expenses and European travel). 

 

Turning the tables a bit on the discussion, what about weddings?  In some families, weddings have become mega affairs.  Spending 50K on a wedding is not in my ethos.  Of course, many couples wed for a lot less.

 

Within my family I have seen weddings play out in several ways.  In one case, where the couple were working professionals (one with a master's degree, another with a law degree), it made sense that the couple paid for the wedding.  Yet in another case, again working professionals, the parents paid about $40K for the wedding.  Yikes!

 

Is a wedding the responsibility of those tying the knot, the bride's parents, the couple's parents?   I guess I am wondering if those who feel like college grads are now "on their own" chip in for nuptials.  Or is this again an issue of family culture?

 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Thanks for all of the replies.  It is appreciated.  I think this is an interesting conversation and, like so many other things, there are no correct responses; it truly depends on the family dynamic and what personal finances allow.

 

I think what stinks about this and other situations is how open young people are with what assistance they are receiving.  It seems these things are no longer done in private. With FB, Instagram, and just a general sense of openness/transparency, every knows everyone else's business.

[Jenny in Florida]

Is a wedding the responsibility of those tying the knot, the bride's parents, the couple's parents?   I guess I am wondering if those who feel like college grads are now "on their own" chip in for nuptials.  Or is this again an issue of family culture?

 

Interesting question. 

 

To be honest, we haven't talked (and I haven't even really thought about) the question of paying for a wedding for either of my kids.

 

Both kids have heard the story of how their parents (us) paid for our own wedding with a budget of about $3,000, how I baked the cake and prepped most of the food myself, etc. We've talked quite a bit about the fact that we were very happy with our choices and that the only things I would change if I could magically go back in time would be to hire a professional photographer and to hire help with setting up/cleaning up the food.

 

So, in a broad way, I think our implied position is that the wedding is the responsibility of the people getting married, although, like life after college in general, that doesn't mean we refuse to pitch in to a reasonable degree.

 

I know my daughter, at least, has inherited my fierce DIY spirit about such events. She's a regular reader of Offbeat Bride and currently writes a blog about living frugally in NYC. So, I'm pretty sure she won't have any extravagant expectations when it comes time for her wedding.

 

My son is generally pretty low key about celebrations, although, of course, his expectations in this regard will likely be affected by whoever he chooses to marry. 

 

That said, I would like to help out as much as we are able to do. That help will certainly include being "on staff" to assist with whatever DIY projects either of them chooses, but I hope we will be able to contribute financially, too. I cannot imagine a situation, though, in which we would be comfortable throwing a $50,000 wedding, even if we were in a financial position to do it. That's just not part of our family culture.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Jenny in Florida

[SKL]

As far as weddings go, I feel like I'd want to give my kids and their spouses a gift of money to help them get started, and they could decide to use it for the wedding, house down-payment, savings, or whatever.  I think it makes the most sense to let the couple decide and be accountable for the wedding planning (unless they are very young or have some challenge that prevents that).

 

You know how some people have doctors in the family - well, we have wedding helpers in the family, sort of.  I co-own an event venue.  Two brothers are musicians, one is a DJ.  We always use someone in the family to take the photos.  My sister is the most awesome cook.  My kid is growing up very interested in hair styling, make-up, and fashion, so I could see her doing that for a family wedding; the other kid is growing up musical, so she could probably contribute some music.  :P

 

In my family of origin, my parents only had 3 kids get married - their two oldest sons and the youngest daughter.  I don't think my parents paid for anything major, nor did the other side.  The first two weddings were pretty modest; my kid sister's was a bit more fancy, about $10K I think, and they were both employed professionals at that point.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

We seem to have these sorts of "family culture" discussions on the boards regularly.

 

<snip>

 

Is a wedding the responsibility of those tying the knot, the bride's parents, the couple's parents?   I guess I am wondering if those who feel like college grads are now "on their own" chip in for nuptials.  Or is this again an issue of family culture?

 

:D

 

I wavered with including weddings but left that out since it's a one time (hopefully) expense.  I was going to include paying off student loan debt (incurred by the student not the parents) but left that out, too.

 

I wish we (general we) could discern if 'family culture" and the subsequent behavior/financial support changes with SES. 

[SKL]

What's SES?

[Granny_Weatherwax]

What's SES?

Socioeconomic status

[SKL]

I agree that it's off-putting to hear that person X got a free ride from his parents and person Y has a trust fund from Aunt Maisie and Person Z is running up a huge educational debt.  Especially when people are young and immature.  I recall grumbling about "spoiled rich brats" when I was in that situation.  Now I really don't regret anything, but at the time I was dumb.

[Happy]

We won't co-sign a mortgage, but we will help with a down payment. That means they must still save for closing costs and get their credit in shape to buy a house. I need to know they have the discipline to pay for a house....then we can bless them with a lump sum toward the down payment.

 

We've often helped with rent or an emergency medical/dental expense. We all share a phone plan, but we are working them off that this year.

[SKL]

Socioeconomic status

 

Well, some would say SES is greatly impacted by the family culture that supports the young people.  So which came first?  I'm not sure it can be traced.

 

I think each "culture" can learn from the other though.

 

[SKL]

I am somewhat surprised to see how many people say their kids can live with them for as long as they have needs and act right.  I'm pretty sure that wasn't typical in the US when past generations were growing up.  I think that when I was growing up, the expectation was that boys launch ASAP and girls can stay until they get married (if they want to).  The reality was much less along gender lines.  :)

[Carol in Cal.]

I agree that it's off-putting to hear that person X got a free ride from his parents and person Y has a trust fund from Aunt Maisie and Person Z is running up a huge educational debt.  

I actually find it pretty helpful.

 

For one thing, it's what I always intended, and since it's more common that I would have thought, I don't feel so weak in doing so.  For another thing, I think it's really good to know how people REALLY make it.  It's kind of like privilege checking.

 

I remember when one of the younger generation of Kennedys was accused of rape, his family pulled together and hired him a very expensive and effective legal team and he got off.  I am virtually sure that he was guilty.  And it opened my eyes to the extent to which wealthy families pitch in to keep their kids out of trouble, even when they have made their own trouble and deserve serious consequences.  Now, I can emulate that or not as I choose, but I can also look more realistically at families with 'clean' records and understand that they might be every bit as corrupt as those with kids in prison.  

[LucyStoner]

Re: weddings: it's not in our culture to have big weddings. My paternal grandparents were married with just a few witnesses, her wedding dress was a "church best dress" she already owned with a corsage pinned to it, he wore his military uniform and they all went and got lunch afterwards. Classic WWII pre-deployment wedding. My parents were married at church and had a cake reception. My mom's dress famously in our family was $12. my husband and I paid <800 on ours. Continuing the inexpensive wedding dress trend I paired a $50 clearanced dress with a $12 clearanced angora cardigan (yes, I like so cardigans so much I incorporated one into my wedding- besides my penchant for cardigans, it was the only way to make the strapless dress weather appropriate for a FEBRUARY wedding). We served a meal we prepared with friends, cakes we made and rented a garden club headquarters for like $100 in the off season. So it looked and felt quite nice despite the cheap price. Due to the alcoholism, especially on his side of the family where drunk = mean and loud, we opted not to serve even a drop of the stuff.

 

I couldn't bring myself to plunk down a lot of money for one day. I'd rather give them a large amount of cash after the wedding to get started,

Edited May 23, 2016 by LucyStoner

[maize]

Neither my parents nor my in-laws have the resources to fully provide for an adult child, but they absolutely help out where they see a need. For several years (until he passed away) dh's grandfather sent us a check for $100 every month; I believe he sent those checks to every one of his adult grandchildren, and there were months when that check made the difference between being able to pay a bill or not. The twenty year old van I drive used to belong to my parents, and the car dh drives used to belong to his. My grandma recently sold her house and moved in with my aunt; shortly after she sent us a check for $1000.

 

These things have certainly added up over the years and have helped us stay on our feet.

[Jane in NC]

:D

 

I wavered with including weddings but left that out since it's a one time (hopefully) expense.  I was going to include paying off student loan debt (incurred by the student not the parents) but left that out, too.

 

I wish we (general we) could discern if 'family culture" and the subsequent behavior/financial support changes with SES. 

 

Interesting. Many of the affluent families I know assist their children without really thinking about it.  In some cases, kids have trusts from grandparents that cover college costs and maybe beyond.  But it is a huge leg up in the current environment for young adults to begin their post college life without student loans or with minimal loans.

 

I have a relative who pays off her kids' undergrad loans (not grad school) but would only chip in a nominal amount for their weddings.  She viewed the latter like grad school--something that an adult should fund for himself.

 

A couple of my friends kids joined Americorps or Teach for America after earning their BAs, BSs.  The communities to which these kids were assigned had high rents or required cars.  Their wages hardly covered the basics.  Some parents probably would want their kids to struggle for a greater lesson but my friends assisted where they could. 

 

I really do think that family culture often rises about socioeconomic status though.  I could afford certain things, but would never pay them--for example the costs associated with pledging certain fraternities.  Not that my son would have wanted to do this.

 

Perhaps some kids expect a lot from their parents in the same way that some parents expect a lot from their kids.  What is interesting to me is how families rally around an elderly person who is ill.  In some families, it is expected that everyone travel to say goodbye on their dime even if they cannot afford it.  In other families, someone will step forward to assist the family that does not have money for airfares or motels along the highway.  In the case of the former, some families believe that all children must be treated equally, that if Kid A is given $1000 for travel expenses, then Kid B needs to be given the same--even if Kid B does not need it.  Again, family culture.

[Arcadia]

I wish we (general we) could discern if 'family culture" and the subsequent behavior/financial support changes with SES.

For my side of the extended family, family culture determines what help is offered; college, wedding, first car, house downpayment. The actual amount depends on the financial ability of the parents. The culture is more of support the children so that future grandchildren benefit. My relatives range from low middle income all the way to high income. My maternal and paternal grandparents are middle income but grew up poor.

 

For my hubby's relatives, there is no consistent pattern/culture as each nuclear family decides for themselves so his cousins do have some envy between them. His relatives are mainly middle income and a few high income.

[creekland]

Both hubby and I have seen firsthand how SES moves up when family members support family members.  It's been that way in both of our family cultures at least through our grandparents encouraging and supporting our parents.

 

It has definitely made an impression and solidified our views of supporting our boys as needed.  If needed, they will support us too.  It's a unit and it stays a unit.  Together we have better odds of all doing well.  Divided there's much more risk IME.

 

Our oldest is married.  It was a low cost wedding in a church with pics done by a family friend, food from Chick Fil A, cake made by a relative, and my guy wore a suit rather than a tux.  These were ALL choices made by the wedding couple.  Yes, we offered (and sent) money, but not 5 digit $$.

 

It was a great ceremony and the couple remains together and happy.  It wasn't too different than the ceremony hubby and I had back in our day and we're still quite happy together and have great memories.

 

We occasionally splurge on travel (vs our normal inexpensive travel), but I've never understood the rational of splurging on a wedding.

[Crimson Wife]

 

I used to be thinking this would be a "no way, do it yourself!" But since I have not seen a single person I have ever met, including doctors, lawyers, and executives, do it 100% themselves, not even ONE person without ANY inheritance or help with college or mortgage (at least one of those two) I have changed my thinking.

 

If I meet anyone who did it 100% on their own, I will let you all know. I used to wonder how the hell this was all working. Now I get it.

 

DH could've done it had he been single and childless rather than married with a family.

 

He paid for college 100% himself through patching together scholarships and PT/summer earnings. If he hadn't lived with my folks and had my salary & health coverage during grad school he simply would've had to take out more in loans. However, he would've paid them back in a similar time frame because his expenses after he graduated would've been much lower supporting only himself rather than a family of 4 (I'd quit my job his last semester of grad school in order to have our 2nd child). He wouldn't have needed my family's help with the down payment had he been purchasing a 1 BR condo suitable for a bachelor rather than a home large enough for a married couple with 3 kids.

 

We made the choice to marry straight out of college and then to try for 2nd & 3rd children (our oldest was a surprise) in our late 20's & very early 30's rather than waiting. Most people these days in our social circle don't marry until their early 30's and don't have kids until their mid-to-late 30's. Hardly any have 3 kids at all unless they have a set of twins.

 

Frankly if helping my kids a bit financially allowed them to start their families younger, that would be worth it to me. I'd like to have a bunch of grandbabies some day and be young enough to enjoy them!

[Crimson Wife]

 

Turning the tables a bit on the discussion, what about weddings?  In some families, weddings have become mega affairs.  Spending 50K on a wedding is not in my ethos.  Of course, many couples wed for a lot less.

 

Is a wedding the responsibility of those tying the knot, the bride's parents, the couple's parents?   I guess I am wondering if those who feel like college grads are now "on their own" chip in for nuptials.  Or is this again an issue of family culture?

 

DH and I had a simple JoP ceremony followed by a dinner cruise for the 2 of us because we had moved up our wedding date by 18 months. My parents threatened to hold our wedding reception without us because they were not going to be denied the big fancy shindig to show off for my dad's business associates and extended family (I'm their only daughter). In hindsight, I wish that I'd had more backbone with them and insisted on a clambake at the beach rather than a stuffy sit-down dinner at the officers' club. But since they were footing the bill, I went along with what they wanted.

 

I can't see DH and I doing to our girls what my parents did to me. I might insist on some kind of party to celebrate the wedding but a casual clambake/BBQ would be A-OK.

 

[creekland]

Frankly if helping my kids a bit financially allowed them to start their families younger, that would be worth it to me. I'd like to have a bunch of grandbabies some day and be young enough to enjoy them!

 

We were able to finish having our three boys by the time I was 28.  Both sets of grandparents were able to watch them go from diapers to college.  It's been priceless.

 

Both sets of our parents helped us out significantly when we had needs.  (We didn't always have needs, but there were times we did.)

 

We haven't forgotten.  As I mentioned before, the benefits are seared in our minds since OUR grandparents also helped our parents succeed (both sides).  Those grandparents were the farmers/factory workers (and some were immigrants) who struggled a ton at times to keep their families going (as did many in that era).

 

Family helping family helps family.  It's a cycle.  A good one.  As long as it's wise... but honestly?  I'm sure there were some poor decisions along the way too.  Better to learn from them than to sink because of them.  I doubt anyone makes the right decision ALL the time - anyone outside of film/TV anyway.

 

We put restrictions on our kids.  They can't become terrorists, pimps, or illegal drug dealers (or similar general crime).  Beyond that, we'll do what we can to help out.

 

No one has gotten a car from us (yet) though.  They've survived.  None of them sponge off of us either.  When they need something, it really is a need.

[Crimson Wife]

I am somewhat surprised to see how many people say their kids can live with them for as long as they have needs and act right.  I'm pretty sure that wasn't typical in the US when past generations were growing up.  I think that when I was growing up, the expectation was that boys launch ASAP and girls can stay until they get married (if they want to).  The reality was much less along gender lines.  :)

 

I think this was true of my parents' generation (Baby Boomers) and mine (Gen X) but it definitely wasn't true of my grandparents' generation. Two of my great-uncles and a great-aunt lived together in what had been my great-grandparents' home their entire lives. The only siblings who had left were the ones who had married, and late marriage was the norm among Irish-Americans in the early part of the 20th century (my grandma married at 32 and one of my great-aunts had been 40).

 

[QueenCat]

Our family culture, on my side, is one of generations help each other....... for example, no one in my extended family trades their cars in. When they are done with one & are ready to upgrade, they look to see if someone else in the family can use it and give it to them.

[catz]

I am open to helping kids should the need arise.  My parents did gift me some money to help for a down payment of a home that I was going to buy any way which was nice but not necessary.  Other than that, they haven't helped me at all since I graduated college.  I did not move home after I graduated college.  I did live at home some summers during college.

 

The biggest gift my parents gave me really was helping me graduate college without debt.  That was a combo of guiding me to a more reasonably priced program, requiring me to work/save over the summers, and yes, they did contribute quite a bit to my tuition.  We are able to make decisions today based on the fact that we had no debt other than a mortgage as a newly married couple.  We had kids later (I was 30 when my first was born).

 

That said, I also think it is a hugely underestimated gift to your children to be well prepared financially and otherwise for retirement/elder years.  Gifts/helping will be given while keeping that in mind. 

 

ETA - in terms of weddings, I don't think kids are owed a wedding.  I do think that if a parent is financially helping and hosting, it is fair that they should be involved in selecting guest list and venue.  My wedding was very much a compromise of my parents being able to host many in a venue that worked for everyone.  We actually paid for most of it including rehearsal dinner, but my parents did gift us some money. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by WoolySocks

[lllll]

I am somewhat surprised to see how many people say their kids can live with them for as long as they have needs and act right.  I'm pretty sure that wasn't typical in the US when past generations were growing up.  I think that when I was growing up, the expectation was that boys launch ASAP and girls can stay until they get married (if they want to).  The reality was much less along gender lines.  :)

 

It was common in my parents' families when my parents were young.  It was the Depression era and they did what they had to do to survive.  Sometimes that was living with extended family.  My mother remembers different people living with them when she was young, and her family was nowhere near well-off (Baton Rouge).   

 

It was also fairly common where we used to live (SW Virginia).  The older people would talk about different relatives living with them for different periods of time when they were young.  Again, nowhere near well-off.   

 

It was also very common in my dh's extended family from his grandparents onwards (Southeast, also Depression era).  His grandparents had all kinds of relatives living with them at different times until the gp's died in their 80's.  And they were probably classified as poor, although they owned a small house out in the country.

 

Also, both my brothers had their wives (and kids) living with my parents at different times.  One when he joined the Air Force and went off to basic training.  Another because he had moved back to the area, then went into the Navy.  My parents enjoyed having them there.

Edited May 23, 2016 by _ ?^..

[SparklyUnicorn]

This is one of those things that I don't think I can answer until it came up.  I can't fathom cosigning for a house, but who knows.  I do want to help my kids and make their lives easier than my life was, but the details and situations I can't say for sure what I'd do. 

[creekland]

My kids worked too - both when at home (on our farm and helping hubby with his engineering field jobs) and throughout college, from freshman semester on.

 

They still help out when they are home.  It's all part of that family unit.  We help out when we visit our folks too.

Edited May 23, 2016 by creekland

[SparklyUnicorn]

I am somewhat surprised to see how many people say their kids can live with them for as long as they have needs and act right.  I'm pretty sure that wasn't typical in the US when past generations were growing up.  I think that when I was growing up, the expectation was that boys launch ASAP and girls can stay until they get married (if they want to).  The reality was much less along gender lines.  :)

 

I'm not so much.  I think it's more difficult to be ready to launch immediately after high school or even college than it may have been in the past.

 

Heck, my mother ran away from home at 16 and got a decent paying job working for the phone company as a telephone operator.  She was a high school drop out and not even legally an adult.  These days I can't fathom that happening for most people.

[FaithManor]

 Today dd called to say Nathaniel had rolled over for the first time. He giggled on the phone for me. If we hadn't helped them financially, she would have gone back to work out of financial desperation, lost the pregnancy, and my little bubba loo boy wouldn't be here filling my life with joy. He's worth the money!

 

I'd post a pic but I can't seem to size one down small enough to attach. Sigh....me and my lack of tech prowess in a family of total computer geeks!

[Carol in Cal.]

Both hubby and I have seen firsthand how SES moves up when family members support family members.  It's been that way in both of our family cultures at least through our grandparents encouraging and supporting our parents.

 

Well, it can bring SES down, too.

I had a friend who worked in tech who was the first in the family to go to college.  He had a job as an analyst, so not a hugely lucrative one like senior engineering or management.  Every time he was about to finally be able to put a down payment on a house, some family crisis or another would eat up his capital.  It was pretty enlightening to me to watch this over the years.  In the meantime housing costs locally skyrocketed, and it became harder and harder for a single person to ever buy anything.  We fell out of touch, but the last I knew, he was not able to get any traction.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Carol in Cal.

[FaithManor]

I'm not so much.  I think it's more difficult to be ready to launch immediately after high school or even college than it may have been in the past.

 

Heck, my mother ran away from home at 16 and got a decent paying job working for the phone company as a telephone operator.  She was a high school drop out and not even legally an adult.  These days I can't fathom that happening for most people.

I agree. It is doubly hard when the job market is so tight, and in our area the GED is very much looked down upon so being a high school graduate only is crazy tough, and being a high school drop out is a one way ticket to homelessness. Things are different now than they were forty or fifty years ago.

 

Shoot the high schoolers around here can't even get summer jobs doing typical things because out of work adults with great resumes and retired folks looking to make extra bucks take all of those former teen positions.

[Jane in NC]

More on family culture:  Among my parent's generation, it was often expected that one of the kids would not marry in order to remain at home to assist parents.  Not that the anointed followed along the expected path but some did. I encountered this as a grad student when I met a woman from Indonesia who was being allowed to educate herself in the states but was expected as the youngest daughter to return to Indonesia to live with and care for her parents as they age. This was perhaps a more common notion in the days before "assisted living".

 

Second homes are not necessarily just a trapping of the uber wealthy.  Growing up, I knew factory families that had a fishing shack at a small lake.  Family cottages, cabins, time shares and the modest sailboat or travel trailer are another way that families stick together despite their different geographic locations.  Again, family culture often draws people together for a week or two of shared vacation--something that would horrify other people who do not want to share space with parents or in-laws for a week.  I was at a social function the other night, sharing a table with a couple who were preparing for the arrival of children and grandchildren for the summer.  Where I live, it is pretty common for grandparents to assist parents in summer care for kids. Oh those moochers!  :D ;)

 

I celebrate the multi-generational approach to life.  I also have a distrust for some who declare to be "self made". They may have invested their inheritance well, but they sure did start with a hefty cushion.

 

 

[FaithManor]

Ah yes, the fishing shack. Having been born and raised in Michigan, I can tell you "camp up north" which took the form of everything from worn out pop up campers, to motorhomes, to one room shacks, to small cabins in the woods, and on up to nicer homes as the norm. Going up north for the summer was not a sign of affluence here. Land was cheap, the lakes are gorgeous, our rivers beckon, and it was just what families did. Shoot, though my parents were low income middle class, we still managed three weeks a summer at "fish camp" which was tents and pop up campers on land that a friend owned, they just simply had to eke it out of the monthly budget and save it. We loved it!

 

It is still common here for grown siblings to go in on a small house on a lake together to make it affordable for everyone, and then they all share expenses and maintenance. It's cheaper over the course of many years if the families are content to always go to the same place, than other vacations that require hotel rooms and lot of eating out.

 

Were ds headed to Northern Michigan Unversity, he'd be living off campus at a two bedroom cottage we found that over four years would be cheaper than room and board in the dorms. Then we would sell it or keep it as a summer vacation house at it is a hop, skip, and jump from Lake Superior and Marquette is a lovely summer town. But, he ended up landing elsewhere and the housing there is too expensive for us to consider investing. but, that other scenario, I don't think that would have been an indication of wealth, just an indication of getting the best bang for the buck as a middle class family.

[creekland]

Yes, our kids have enjoyed hubby's parents cottage along a river in VA.  It will be kept within the family after their passing too.

 

My side didn't have this, but we've shared "usual" day trips with my guys.  They remember them fondly and we still head to those places every single time we venture "back home."

 

I guess it's just family traditions - travel version.  Family cottage vs family favorite haunts.

[MomtoCandJ]

My girls are on the young side at 7 and 2 but I put "I might depending on circumstances". Included in dh's and I's 10 yr plan is the provision of building a house on our current property and leaving our mobile home where it's at. The reason for leaving the mobile home is so that if we need to take care of any of our parents, they can have their own space in the mobile home but still close enough so that we can help with daily things. Another reason is so that if sh!t hits the fan with either one of the girls then they have a place to stay as well until they get back on their feet. Included in the plan is that dd1 gets my current car (I get one every 10 yrs for my birthday and she turns 16 the year I'm due for a new one) and dd2 gets whatever dh has when she turns 16 (he also gets a different vehicle every 10 yrs, about 5 yrs after I get mine so that would work out for dd2)

Since dh and I came of age during the beginning of this recession thing (I think it started in Michigan before most states), we understand how hard it can be to be self sufficient just starting out and we are willing to help where we can. But we won't support them if they are not trying to do it themselves.

[LucyStoner]

Well, it can bring SES down, too.

I had a friend who worked in tech who was the first in the family to go to college. He had a job as an analyst, so not a hugely lucrative one like senior engineering or management. Every time he was about to finally be able to put a down payment on a house, some family crisis or another would eat up his capital. It was pretty enlightening to me to watch this over the years. In the meantime housing costs locally skyrocketed, and it became harder and harder for a single person to ever buy anything. We fell out of touch, but the last I knew, he was not able to get any traction.

That's not a reciprocal kind of help or help from one generation to the next which I believe is the sort that raises SES. That's one person who can barely afford it being hit up all the time because they are the one person with the finances to help anyone. It's happening to my friend right now. Most of her income goes to pay the rent and living expenses of two older relatives who can't support themselves fully and refuse to do anything to help themselves (as in move into subsidy housing, register at the VA or apply for the disabili benefits one almost certainly qualifies for). She's a first generation college grad with a post graduate education and her family has this nutty notion that she owes them. They never helped her and she was raised in extreme poverty.

 

It would be a far better investment in the SES of herself and her kids to put that money into her assets and to helping launch her kids. It's a huge strain on her husband as well.

Edited May 23, 2016 by LucyStoner

[madteaparty]

I've no idea what sort of position I will be in but...I will help them in every way I am able. What's the point of $ otherwise?

Edited May 23, 2016 by madteaparty

[Liza Q]

We would not co-sign, but we might help with a down-payment if we were able. Since we have four and the youngest is just 16, we are reluctant to give too much to any one child. While we are not exactly even-steven about money, we wouldn't want to help one child and then tell a younger one "sorry - no money left!", kwim?

 

We currently help our two oldest daughters (25 and 23) by paying for their cell phones and Metrocards every month, as well as covering some of their groceries. It is a lot to give them...but the truth is that we pushed them to move out. We had always planned to let them stay home until they could support themselves. But having our three girls, the oldest and the youngest with moderate to severe sensory/anxiety issues, and two of them adults, sharing a bedroom was just more than the family could handle. When our oldest moved out about 2 years ago, the stress level in our home really dropped. When the next moved out last summer, the peace that descended upon our home was...well, there are really no words to describe the difference in our youngest, since she has had her own room. We live in a 3-br apartment, so it is not like we could just send someone to the basement or remodel a den or something. But, since we had originally intended to have them live at home till we all felt they were ready to move out, helping them financially works for us.

 

We did help the oldest two with college tuition. They both went to school locally and lived home for all/most of college. We have a similar amount aside for the next two.

 

Our oldest is engaged and my husband has offered her a certain amount towards the wedding - not enough to cover a big wedding, but he feels like helping them out. She has loans from grad school (we don't help with that) and her fiance is paying off law school loans. She knows that we intend to cut her off this year, as she is getting her masters in June, but we will probably do it gradually over the year. Our second is graduating from college in June and we are comfortable helping her for a few more years. She is a real worker and saver and would manage if we did not help her out (our oldest would starve...or, rather, be deeper in debt) but we do still feel responsible to help, even though she doesn't strictly need it. So she travels a lot and we are happy to contribute to her having a blast during college!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gypsymama]

Weddings: I wouldn't pay for an extravagant wedding. Not an option. We spent $2000 on our wedding and honeymoon. Most everything was diy. I've helped many family members and friends with their weddings making cakes, food, sewing dresses, decor, etc. I can put on a gorgeous wedding for little money ;). I would love to help the kids with their weddings in a similar fashion and wouldn't mind contributing financially but I don't personally believe in spending 5 digits on a wedding so I won't support it for anyone. 

 

I find the SES talks interesting and I don't find it to matter IME. My father was from an extremely wealthy family. He and his 4 siblings are in MUCH worse financial standings than they started in. My mother is from a poor Irish immigrant family. She and her 3 sisters are each in better financial situations than they started in. I think their success or lack their of was more a sign of parenting than finances. 

 

I am a very frugal person though so that affects how I see most of this. I would love to help my kids and I don't expect them to live their lives the same way we did but my help is going to be in line with my beliefs. I would never even consider spending $10K on a wedding. That's what I spent on my house. I'd help my kids have a way to go but I'm never going to co-sign or pay for a brand new car, etc. I'm not going to support a lifestyle I don't believe in.

[FaithManor]

 

Since dh and I came of age during the beginning of this recession thing (I think it started in Michigan before most states), we understand how hard it can be to be self sufficient just starting out and we are willing to help where we can. But we won't support them if they are not trying to do it themselves.

I'm in Mid-Michigan and locals refer to the state as the stench of the armpit of the economic recession as it really did hit almost depression levels here and especially in Detroit with the bankruptcy...if you ask many in that area, they will tell you they are still in a major, huge depression not seeing much relief yet.

 

And then the Flint water tragedy, and.....

 

 

I love the beauty of this state and so many other aspects of it, but it isn't a good place for families to try to get ahead right now and especially on the east side of the lower peninsula.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I'm in Mid-Michigan and locals refer to the state as the stench of the armpit of the economic recession as it really did hit almost depression levels here and especially in Detroit with the bankruptcy...if you ask many in that area, they will tell you they are still in a major, huge depression not seeing much relief yet.

 

And then the Flint water tragedy, and.....

 

 

I love the beauty of this state and so many other aspects of it, but it isn't a good place for families to try to get ahead right now and especially on the east side of the lower peninsula.

That's what's happening in our town.  The layoffs, plant closures, etc are phenomenal and ongoing.  It's becoming more difficult with each passing month to get ahead.  Property values haven't quite recovered and job prospects are minimal.   Our town, like Flint, is experiencing water issues and it isn't helping to bolster the local economy,especially with the recent (negative) national news coverage.  It also doesn't help that the state still has not passed a budget and every state funded agency is cutting costs to the bare minimum.  School districts are announcing closures for next year.  Not just schools but entire districts.  Illinois is in a sad state of affairs.

[FaithManor]

That's what's happening in our town.  The layoffs, plant closures, etc are phenomenal and ongoing.  It's becoming more difficult with each passing month to get ahead.  Property values haven't quite recovered and job prospects are minimal.   Our town, like Flint, is experiencing water issues and it isn't helping to bolster the local economy,especially with the recent (negative) national news coverage.  It also doesn't help that the state still has not passed a budget and every state funded agency is cutting costs to the bare minimum.  School districts are announcing closures for next year.  Not just schools but entire districts.  Illinois is in a sad state of affairs.

It is very scary. We've had three bank failures in our county and that is always a sign of disaster. I would never expect young adults to weather this without some support.

[MomtoCandJ]

I'm in Mid-Michigan and locals refer to the state as the stench of the armpit of the economic recession as it really did hit almost depression levels here and especially in Detroit with the bankruptcy...if you ask many in that area, they will tell you they are still in a major, huge depression not seeing much relief yet.

 

And then the Flint water tragedy, and.....

 

 

I love the beauty of this state and so many other aspects of it, but it isn't a good place for families to try to get ahead right now and especially on the east side of the lower peninsula.

Yup, dh lucked out with the job that he has now and I'm going to school for nursing (my local hospital is always hiring RNs because people start out there but then decide to chase the money south to Bay City or Saginaw at the bigger hospitals). We started out in Saginaw (we lived on Drummond for a while where I grew up and then moved to Saginaw when dh was laid off from one of the few decent paying employers up there). Saginaw started going down hill shortly after we moved there in 2004, we stayed there until 2006 when we moved to Georgia, employment sucked in Georgia too so we moved back to Michigan in 2011, dh lucked out that his cousin was hiring and he has been there ever since making enough to support us. We also lucked out with our home as dh's grandpa let us buy it on land contract which made payments more affordable for us.

[Bluegoat]

My kids are younger, but I can see myself doing many different things, or refusing to do them, under the right circumstances.

 

My parents co-signed a mortgage for my sister when she was getting started out with her first full-time job.. I think they probably helped or even gave her the down payment as well.  What it came down to was that it made no sense for her to rent rather than own in the area where she could walk to work, it would have cost her more.  And they did not want her to move in with them.

 

I tend on principle to believe in the idea of family wealth.  I think passing down homes, businesses, and such, within a family, is a major source of stability and a way to retain wealth within the family.  I tend to see it more in terms of assets than cash, but sometimes cash makes more sense or is the only way to do it.  The idea that each generation should be able to on their own build as much or more wealth than the previous generation seems a little unrealistic to me.