Dual enrollment in 8th grade?

[Bluejay007]

My 7th grader took the ACT and scored 20 & 22 in English and math. Then he took the college placement test (PERT) and scored high enough for both. He will take Intermediate Algebra, Composition I and Programming. He was accepted for dual enrollment and he is excited to start in the fall, but after all that, I'm having second thoughts about letting a 12, soon to be 13 year old on a College campus. At the same time, I feel inadequate to teach him English, especially writing since it is not my language.

 

I heard the load of work is high at this level. He is responsible and capable,does well when he is around teens and adults of all ages, but sometimes he is lazy to work....and also quite immature emotionally. I'm afraid he won't be able to keep up with the work.

 

Thoughts? Any successful stories of kids starting so young?

Edited April 23, 2016 by Bluejay007

[teachermom2834]

No experience but I have a rising 8th grader with scores a tad higher and I would not dual enroll him on a college campus. Maybe online but probably not.

 

I just think there are better options for a student that young. Mine will be taking a combination of WTM Academy classes and classes at our local high school co-op.

 

I am a big fan of dual enrollment and I hope to get this son going in 10th grade. My other kids started in 11th. For us 8th grade is just too young and there are other options. I know some people have done it though.

Edited April 23, 2016 by teachermom2834

[MarkT]

Be aware that "Intermediate Algebra" is a remedial course. If your student has interest in a STEM field I do NOT recommend this route. For math, you are better off with the many online HS options in the pinned HS Math thread.

[teachermom2834]

Is dual enrollment free for you? If you have to pay for these classes my opinion is that your son could be challenged by courses geared to his age. That is a nice math score for 7th grade. My 7th grader with a 23 math has been plenty challenged by the WTM AOPS pre algebra class. I think you can find age appropriate classes for your son elsewhere if you are prepared to spend some money. Now, if dual enrollment is free I can see the appeal.

[Mom22ns]

The CC & University here won't let student take remedial courses, so Intermediate Algebra wasn't an option. However, it will essentially be covering Algebra 2 in one semester. It is designed for students who have had Algebra 2 and didn't get it, rather than a first time learner.

 

I would NOT put an 8th grader into a College Composition class. You can expect this class to be full of discussions of violence, sex, and other contemporary issues. These are the things that are compelling to college students, therefor things they should be writing about. I don't think of myself as overprotective, but I would not go there. My 16 yo did fine with college composition, but I really wouldn't have wanted her taking on the issues they dealt with any younger.

 

Programming is a good choice :)

[Bluejay007]

Could you elaborate why not, teachermom? Safety or maturity reasons?

 

I should add that I cannot afford private online classes or co-ops. DE is free,except the cost of the books. I think some of my son's classes will be online,so not all will be on campus. 

 

He has been doing Foerster algebra,but hasn't finished it. Maybe I should just let him continue with it. I thought he would get high school and college credit for Intermediate A.  I really need to outsource writing though because I'm unable to teach him ; he has surpassed me a long time in this area! He can write quite well, but doesn't like to write. And programming is his passion .He has already taken some free online classes,but now he wants something more in depth. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by Bluejay007

[teachermom2834]

Not personal/physical safety.

 

Maturity is an issue. There are group projects, peer interactions and 8th grade is just young to me to have to work on a group project with college age and older students. For my kid that is a social and emotional mismatch. Content is another issue. Content of a college English class is rarely going to be appropriate for my 8th grader.

 

This obviously will vary but these lower level classes such as intermediate algebra and Comp 1, depending on the institution, are not the highest quality and I would argue less rigorous than a good high school class. I believe that not only would my 8th grader not be ready emotionally, I think it is possible that the quality would be inferior. It is just my experience that a bright 8th grader is better challenged by being with other bright young teens than with the mixed bag that is the community college set.

 

Add on late night review sessions, group meetings, general conversation and chit chat one gets in a college setting and it just isn't right for my young teen.

 

I guess I am also in the camp of not rushing. High school is long. They can start de in 11th and still have a ton of credits.

 

Not bashing community colleges or dual enrollment! I actually am a big fan of both. But based on the experiences of my older kids I think 10th or 11th is a better place to start. If younger...maybe for just one carefully chosen class.

 

But that is just my opinion and money is a factor if de is free for you. I am sure you will have some others come along and share positive experiences too :)

[G5052]

I'm a community college professor and homeschool parent, and I certainly wouldn't start with three courses. Pick one to begin with, and not in an area that they're struggling with.

 

Personally, we delay dual enrollment for a variety of reasons -- mature topics, drugs on campus, heavier workload, getting used to deadlines, it stays on their record, etc. 

 

But if you're determined, only do one at first. The local school actually only allows two the first semester anyway because it is such an adjustment.

[cbollin]

If I were in that situation, I'd find a local homeschool co-op or just a friend and make a barter.   If you coach and edit my child's English papers, I can offer to help your student learn my first language.  That may be the old school way of doing homeschool, but it works.

 

I just don't think the next logical course for a child who just finished 7th grade is to find college class.  That is mostly dealing with letting them grow up to be ready for reading amounts and levels and content, as well as everything else others mentioned.

 

 

[EKS]

I would not dual enroll an 8th grader who has average ACT scores for the target "grade."  Aside from the issue of being in classes with adults, those college grades will follow him *forever*.  The Iowa Acceleration Scale indicates that (among many other considerations), a student's scores on an above level test should ideally be >75th percentile for the receiving grade.  If with were me, I would wait until all sections of the ACT were well above that threshold, as an accelerated student should still be able to get As in the higher level coursework.

[MarkT]

Could you elaborate why not, teachermom? Safety or maturity reasons?

 

I should add that I cannot afford private online classes or co-ops. DE is free,except the cost of the books. I think some of my son's classes will be online,so not all will be on campus. 

 

He has been doing Foerster algebra,but hasn't finished it. Maybe I should just let him continue with it. I thought he would get high school and college credit for Intermediate A.  I really need to outsource writing though because I'm unable to teach him ; he has surpassed me a long time in this area! He can write quite well, but doesn't like to write. And programming is his passion .He has already taken some free online classes,but now he wants something more in depth. 

There are some free online classes please look at the threads.

 

Foerster is great keep with it.

 

Also

http://mathwithoutborders.com/?post_type=product

 

$79 per course but some folks do not like it.

[katilac]

 

I would NOT put an 8th grader into a College Composition class. You can expect this class to be full of discussions of violence, sex, and other contemporary issues.  

 

 

Yep. Lots of sex, drugs, and violence. 

[Alessandra]

Are there any competitive entrance, magnet high school in your area? The magnet schools that I am familiar with have very bright, organized, hard working kids. It could be a better match for your son in more ways than just age.

[G5052]

Yep. Lots of sex, drugs, and violence. 

 

FWIW, this does vary.

 

My oldest was a languages/math guy in high school, and thus had to take freshman comp this year, his first year of college.

 

The textbooks actually have a good variety of material, much of it that he actually already read in high school. He's had to write on racist and feminist issues, but nothing offensive at all. We did pick the professor carefully though. Some push the envelope more than others.

 

Their last paper is a literary analysis of a book with references and footnotes. Mine picked Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea, most of the class picked Harry Potter and Stephen King. Ah, well!

[MarkT]

FWIW, this does vary.

 

My oldest was a languages/math guy in high school, and thus had to take freshman comp this year, his first year of college.

 

The textbooks actually have a good variety of material, much of it that he actually already read in high school. He's had to write on racist and feminist issues, but nothing offensive at all. We did pick the professor carefully though. Some push the envelope more than others.

 

Their last paper is a literary analysis of a book with references and footnotes. Mine picked Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea, most of the class picked Harry Potter and Stephen King. Ah, well!

Those are all mostly high school books or earlier.

[Greta]

I think a lot of this depends on the atmosphere at your local CC.  Even different campuses of the same system can vary widely, or at least they do here.  So that would be my first concern:  what kind of atmosphere are you putting your 12/13 year old in at your CC?

 

The second concern I would have is that under normal circumstances, the grades you made in 8th grade are not something that's generally going to affect your future.  But if you're taking college courses in 8th grade, then those grades are with you from now on.  Is he really ready for that?  It's a big commitment.  

 

There are other ways that you can get him help with courses that you don't feel comfortable teaching, so don't let that factor too much into your decision.  And I would start with ONE class and transition gently.  That's what I'm doing right now with my 16yo, and I have no regrets about limiting her to one class, because that one class has been a bigger workload than she was expecting.  (And for the record, this class is in her favorite subject and the one she is strongest in, but it was still an adjustment.)

[G5052]

Those are all mostly high school books or earlier.

 

Exactly. This is freshman English though, so no surprise. Their emphasis in ENG 101 and 102 is on writing anyway. The assignment my oldest is working on is to write a literary analysis of a book you're familiar with. The professor had to approve the book, and they have to reference academic papers on the book.

 

Really not a bad freshman assignment, IMHO.

[marbel]

The CC & University here won't let student take remedial courses, so Intermediate Algebra wasn't an option. However, it will essentially be covering Algebra 2 in one semester. It is designed for students who have had Algebra 2 and didn't get it, rather than a first time learner.

 

I would NOT put an 8th grader into a College Composition class. You can expect this class to be full of discussions of violence, sex, and other contemporary issues. These are the things that are compelling to college students, therefor things they should be writing about. I don't think of myself as overprotective, but I would not go there. My 16 yo did fine with college composition, but I really wouldn't have wanted her taking on the issues they dealt with any younger.

 

Programming is a good choice :)

 

Both my kids have taken college composition as dual enrollment students, one at age 16, one at 18 (last semester of high school).  There wasn't a lot of talk about sex, drugs, or violence but they did talk about a lot of contemporary issues and no one was careful with language or opinions.   It is expected that the students are adults or at least ready to be in adult situations and have adult conversations.

 

Both kids did fine academically in the class.  The 16 year old, who is a pretty mature kid, felt out of place with the other college students.  It wasn't a bad experience for her, but she definitely did not feel that she belonged, particularly once fellow students learned she was still in high school.  No one was nasty or condescending to her, but it was obvious she didn't quite fit in.  She said she was glad she hadn't gone when she was younger. 

 

YMMV of course.

[Melissa B]

Personally, I would start with one class. My dd started dual enrollment at the local university in 9th grade. She had higher ACT scores and a very good work ethic. It was still a huge learning curve. It is basically covering the amount of information she used to cover in one year in 16 weeks. There are only a few assignments that are the entire grade. Bomb one and it can be enough to destroy the entire semester's grade. She had to learn to process information faster, utilize professor office hours, ask the right questions, study more efficiently, interact in a classroom where she was certainly the youngest student, etc. She has now had 15 semesters of dual enrollment and the first was her worst semester GPA. I am glad she only took 6 credit hours that term!

[Pawz4me]

My youngest DS started in an early college high school program on the campus of our CC at the beginning of his freshman year, when he was 14.  He's done fine.  That said -- he was very emotionally mature for his age and everything was carefully controlled through the program (i.e., they've pretty much figured out which college level classes work best for the freshmen to begin with, etc.).

 

We (all the parents of the kids in the program) were warned about and had to agree to the adult level topics and conversations that would occur in college level classes.  We've had no issues with anything DS has experienced, but we've always been very open and advanced in the things we discuss.  We've never sheltered our kids from difficult topics or been overly protective/helicoptering parents.

 

So based on our experience I don't necessarily think it's taking a big risk to let a 13 year old experience a CC atmosphere or take a class.  I wouldn't start with more than a class or two the first semester, though.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Pawz4me

[quark]

My 7th grader took the ACT and scored 20 & 22 in English and math. Then he took the college placement test (PERT) and scored high enough for both. He will take Intermediate Algebra, Composition I and Programming. He was accepted for dual enrollment and he is excited to start in the fall, but after all that, I'm having second thoughts about letting a 12, soon to be 13 year old on a College campus. At the same time, I feel inadequate to teach him English, especially writing since it is not my language.

 

I heard the load of work is high at this level. He is responsible and capable,does well when he is around teens and adults of all ages, but sometimes he is lazy to work....and also quite immature emotionally. I'm afraid he won't be able to keep up with the work.

 

Thoughts? Any successful stories of kids starting so young?

 

Edited for TMI.

 

Anecdotes: I have friends with kids, 12-13-ish, who started DE at that age. They chose courses very carefully, e.g. one foreign language class, or one engineering type class (usually STEM classes because these rarely involve mention of sex, violence, drugs). And the kids LOVED the experience and started asking for more. The kids also do very well and why friends have decided to continue on this path for their kids. They never imagined their kids would do this well. Something about the external structure worked so well for them and they really are thriving. Choose carefully, do your research on ratemyprofessor.com or talk to other students on campus and this might end up being a great opportunity for your kid. You just won't know until you try it.

 

Every kid is so different. If your gut is strongly telling you to hold off, I would listen to it. But if you think he might benefit from one (maybe a non-core subject and not lower than calculus level math) course and slowly build it from there, I would totally go for it. Good luck!

 

Edited April 23, 2016 by quark

[SparklyUnicorn]

My 8th grader is only taking one math class.  The work load has not been bad.  Probably the biggest challenge for him in the beginning was learning to take notes.  He says she writes very fast.  He manages it though.

 

Three classes sounds like a lot, but who knows.  You may find that he has to focus on just those three things and not much else.  I don't think you necessarily need to hold off, but you might reconsider three classes.  They usually allow you to drop stuff, but after a certain point you can't get your money back.  If this isn't costing too much then maybe that's not a big deal. Although the price of books is pretty shocking. 

 

 

[katilac]

FWIW, this does vary.

 

My oldest was a languages/math guy in high school, and thus had to take freshman comp this year, his first year of college.

 

The textbooks actually have a good variety of material, much of it that he actually already read in high school. He's had to write on racist and feminist issues, but nothing offensive at all. We did pick the professor carefully though. Some push the envelope more than others.

 

Their last paper is a literary analysis of a book with references and footnotes. Mine picked Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea, most of the class picked Harry Potter and Stephen King. Ah, well!

 

Oh, I'm sure it does vary, but you have to be okay with the possibility. 

 

Much of the sex/drugs/violence in dd's class came in the form of personal essays and free writing in class, so in some ways it is out of the professor's control. Two semesters are required, and the first is actually 'worse' in the sense that it focuses more heavily on personal essays, interviews, and generally the type of thing that is going to reflect the personal lives of grown college students. 

 

My kids would not have been emotionally ready for a college comp class in 8th-grade. 

[kiana]

I really wouldn't put a bright 8th grader into intermediate algebra at a CC. He will be in a class designed to teach the minimum math necessary to proceed to college algebra to students who loathe math, and he will be surrounded by students who fear and despise math. Furthermore, the pace is very rapid, and if he earns a C, he's technically completed the course but isn't prepared to do anything other than go on and get a C/D in college algebra.

 

Basically, you really don't want to take a nice, bright 8th grader and turn him into a mediocre college student.

[Kassia]

My daughter will be 14 in August and will be taking her first DE classes this summer.  She's starting with Spanish and I think it's the perfect place to start since she already knows a lot of Spanish.  She can get used to a college class with a subject she's familiar with and loves this way.  

 

Erica

[Arcadia]

I won't for my oldest who already have the prereq ACT scores (>30) and is finishing aops PreCalc. It is because the scores stay forever and for now he still wants to have the chance to make mistakes that are not permanent. I could teach my kids up to college calc though if we don't outsource so the financial crunch isn't there.

 

ETA:

Kid's writing is at grade level (6th/7th) despite the high act score so no rush for DE.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Arcadia

[Bluejay007]

Thank you so much to each one of you for the insight and opinions. I am learning so much from you. He is my oldest and I am learning as I go. We have an appointment next week with the dual enrollment manager and we will make a final decision . The clerk, one teacher we know, and some other parents did not warn me about all these things you told me about ; they all said he will be ok. Our college is in a suburb area,and from what I heard from other homeschool moms, it's very quiet, without troubles and the students just go to the class and leave...I am glad I listened to my gut and came here to ask for advice.

 

I think I may let him take programming only,depending what the DE manager says after I will express my concerns. We will continue with Foerster ( he did not struggle with it, I just thought why not get credit if possible) and I have to find something for English. We have tried many programs,like WTM, IEW, EIW, and I like them all for different reasons. What I have trouble with , is correcting his essays, for punctuation,grammar,sentence structure,and style.I might have to inquire at our local school to see if he can take English there, but my husband thinks it will be a waste since he's seen how kids in public school write . That might have changed now since they say they have more rigorous standards...we shall see. 

[cbollin]

On Essentials in Writing, they are just now beginning to offering Scoring Service.  I don't know if their service is in your budget. I don't know details.  I just know the scoring service is there.  here' s link for you to find out if something like that could be helpful.   He does the lessons but they grade/score/evaluate it.

http://essentialsinwriting.com/scoring-service/

[Ellie]

My 7th grader took the ACT and scored 20 & 22 in English and math. Then he took the college placement test (PERT) and scored high enough for both. He will take Intermediate Algebra, Composition I and Programming. He was accepted for dual enrollment and he is excited to start in the fall, but after all that, I'm having second thoughts about letting a 12, soon to be 13 year old on a College campus. At the same time, I feel inadequate to teach him English, especially writing since it is not my language.

 

I heard the load of work is high at this level. He is responsible and capable,does well when he is around teens and adults of all ages, but sometimes he is lazy to work....and also quite immature emotionally. I'm afraid he won't be able to keep up with the work.

 

Thoughts? Any successful stories of kids starting so young?

 

My dc began taking classes at the c.c. when they were 14yo, so I'm not opposed to younger children doing it. :-)

 

Since your ds is so young, you'd be taking him to class and picking him up, yes? Then I don't see any problems with him being on a college campus.

 

If he takes a class and can't keep up, he'll get a bad grade, unless it's clear early on that it's too difficult, in which case he can drop the class without messing up his transcript.

 

However, I might not have allowed such a young person to take that many heavier classes right off the bat.

[regentrude]

My DD took her first college class at age 13.

 

This said: I assume a student who considers DE in 8th grade is a strong student. He should be adequately challenged. Thus I would not want him to be in a remedial college class (i.e. a class that is normally completed in high school), because this will be taken by students who did not do well enough in high school, have issues with math, are not academically strong. Mixing an advanced 8th grader with underperforming college students would not create the learning atmosphere I would want for my child.

Edited April 23, 2016 by regentrude

[regentrude]

Yep. Lots of sex, drugs, and violence. 

 

sure - my DD's first college literature class was a Shakespeare course. Shakespeare is full of violence, sex, incest, murder... not sure about drugs, though. But then, Shakespeare would be full of this even if studied at home.

[catz]

You're lucky your colleges are open to it.  They weren't for my kid even with higher ACT scores.  Hope it goes great!  I'm hoping to squeak him into at least one class as a sophomore next year.

[vonfirmath]

My 7th grader took the ACT and scored 20 & 22 in English and math. Then he took the college placement test (PERT) and scored high enough for both. He will take Intermediate Algebra, Composition I and Programming. He was accepted for dual enrollment and he is excited to start in the fall, but after all that, I'm having second thoughts about letting a 12, soon to be 13 year old on a College campus. At the same time, I feel inadequate to teach him English, especially writing since it is not my language.

 

I heard the load of work is high at this level. He is responsible and capable,does well when he is around teens and adults of all ages, but sometimes he is lazy to work....and also quite immature emotionally. I'm afraid he won't be able to keep up with the work.

 

Thoughts? Any successful stories of kids starting so young?

 

The Robinson program on the University of Washington campus puts kids that age on campus in regular classes.  My husband was part of it. (7th Grade in the Transition program and 8th grade fully on campus).  And did well -- all except socially.  He really misses getting to be friends with kids his own age. (He was fending off flirting from college girls who didn't realize how young he was, and really unable to socialize with college students due to the wide gap in ages.)  I know some success stories from the same program though that did not have the same problems.

[katilac]

  What I have trouble with , is correcting his essays, for punctuation,grammar,sentence structure,and style.I 

 

Check with your local library. Ours has a ton of tutoring and homework help available for free, including a writing lab that lets you upload a paper and get it back within a couple of days with corrections and comments. 

 

 

sure - my DD's first college literature class was a Shakespeare course. Shakespeare is full of violence, sex, incest, murder... not sure about drugs, though. But then, Shakespeare would be full of this even if studied at home.

 

Of course, but Shakespearean sex and violence is one thing, and I would hope someone signing up for that class would realize some sex and violence was headed their way.

 

Reading about college students' personal forays into sex, violence, and drugs is another thing entirely, imo, and not always expected by people signing up for DE courses. Most composition courses are going to include personal essays, free writing, and topic generation. And they are not of Shakespearean quality. 

 

My kids are familiar with sex, violence, and incest because they have read some Greek tragedies, some Shakespeare, and lots of bad fan fiction. Some of this they read before 8th-grade, but that is just quite a different story to me than having to edit and discuss the personal sex, violence, and incest that their classmates are writing about. 

 

Some kids would be fine with that in middle school, I'm sure, but we found 11th-grade to be quite early enough. Some of us are posting about it because many people are caught unaware by the topics and discussion in a college composition course; they have considered the academics but just haven't thought of what might come up. They can do with the information what they will.  

Edited April 24, 2016 by katilac