community college

[hornblower]

I'm Canadian so only have a very general (& probably quite mistaken view of your system) but I follow this guy on twitter & saw him posting this last winter & just remembered...  
 

Alex Parker, astrophysicist exploring exoplanets with NASA New Horizons. Education: WA state community college 2 yrs -> BSc from UW -> PhD from a public Cdn university (UVic) 
 

https://twitter.com/Alex_Parker/status/681242623567265792 : "So, yeah. Don't knock community college. It's because of one that I got to be a part of the team that explored Pluto."

 

Someone in that thread linked to an article from Science about US science education in community colleges. http://nas-sites.org/communitycollegessummit/files/2011/11/Growing-Roles-for-Science-Education-in-Community-Colleges.pdf

"In 1999 and 2000, almost half of the science and engineering baccalaureate recipients and almost one-third of the master’s degree recipients had attended community colleges"

Edited April 7, 2016 by hornblower

[Crimson Wife]

It is actually easier to get accepted to UC Berkeley (which has a top-notch engineering program) as a CC transfer than it is as a freshman applicant. It is fairly common in my neck of the woods for aspiring engineers who do not get accepted to Berkeley or Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (flagship polytech) to do 2 years at CC and then apply as a transfer. A good thing about the California CC system is that courses are clearly designated as UC and/or Cal State transferable so there are no surprises about having to repeat coursework that didn't transfer.

[G5052]

I have an uncle who was an internationally-known scientist in an obscure area of environmental science that became of great interest in the 1990's. He would regularly go oversees to consult with heads-of-state and spoke at universities all over the world. He started at a community college because his parents were newly divorced and there wasn't enough money for him after paying for his older siblings.

 

If you choose carefully, starting at a community doesn't necessarily hold you back at all.

[SparklyUnicorn]

For a lot of people it is the difference between being able to go to college at all and never being able to go.  It keeps costs down.  To compare, in my city the CC courses cost around $500 (for three credits).  The private university (non profit) charges over $3000 for one course.  That's insane.  And you figure a good number of courses one is required to take for a degree are general ed courses.  They are often a rehashing of high school courses (another discussion entirely). 

[Lolly]

When you talk to a lot of people here, you get the impression that going into a science related career from community college is an impossibility. Many look down their noses at CC. It is considered inferior. It is where those who can't get into other schools go. It is easier than 4 year. It is for those who cannot afford to go elsewhere. One of dd's friends made tremendously disparaging remarks when dd decided to start there.

 

Then, there is the truth. My dc have found that the majority of the classes are equal to or surpass what the 4 year schools offer. The science labs are not always equal. You have fewer students per class. You usually have an actual professor teaching. Dc attend for many reasons. Sometimes it is because they can't get in elsewhere or they cannot afford to, but sometimes it is because they prefer to start there. Sometimes they want a more economic choice.

 

I recently was working with employment records from hospitals. A shocking number of doctors started at CC. At least, it shocked me. Across all areas of employment in the medical fields, starting at CC was not an unusual choice.

 

[Kassia]

One of my sons did two years of full-time enrollment as a DE student at the CC.  It was a fantastic experience for him.  He is an engineering student at our flagship state university now and got almost all of his math requirements and all of his science requirements completed at the CC.  The math classes at the CC were far superior to the ones he took at the state university.  Small classes, real professors who spoke English and cared about their students, etc.  I am hoping my youngest child does the same.  She will be starting Spanish at the CC this summer with a professor who has taught for over twenty years.  

 

Erica

[SparklyUnicorn]

The small classes thing is such a luxury I think.  I hear of these crazy things like 600 students in a class.  That's what you get for top dollar?  Wow.  I can't even imagine that. 

[LisaKinVA]

It all comes down to where you live for CC and where you want to transfer to.  There is a HUGE variance from state to state.  

 

My brother went to CC in FL -- zero of his courses transferred to his 4-year for anything other than general elective credit.  Which meant he had to start from scratch.

 

In VA, it depends upon each CC and each University and your intended program of study.  None of the math/science would transfer from our local (in VA) CC to VA Tech for anything other than general elective credit.  English/History/Fine Arts/Foreign Language would transfer, though.  But not having those general ed courses in math/science transfer in for credit means you can't get into your upper levels until you have the pre-rec's ... so you're kind of stuck.

 

I don't think I've ever knocked CC as a means to an end -- I've only strongly encouraged people to not go in blindly thinking that they can just do 2 years at a CC and then magically transfer everything to their intended university.  It usually works for humanities/social sciences --  it may be more complicated for hard sciences and math, and nearly impossible between states.  I hear way too many people making assumptions about 2 years in CC and transferring elsewhere.  

 

 

[G5052]

My oldest has twelve left in calculus and eleven in accounting, his two favorite classes at the community college. He likes that though because the professors know him by name and are more involved with helping students individually. In my state, any class that transfers has to match the state goals-and-objectives also used by the 4-year schools, so the quality is generally there.

 

The downside is that there is a negative "vibe" because so many students end up not graduating. It runs around 25% within three years, which is sad. Most of the state schools here run 65% or more within five years for a 4-year degree. When I was teaching at the local community college, I had several semesters where only one or two students would get an "A," primarily because so few did all of the work. So it's a different environment.

[G5052]

I've only strongly encouraged people to not go in blindly thinking that they can just do 2 years at a CC and then magically transfer everything to their intended university.  It usually works for humanities/social sciences --  it may be more complicated for hard sciences and math, and nearly impossible between states.  I hear way too many people making assumptions about 2 years in CC and transferring elsewhere.  

 

Yes, I hear that a lot, and it is alarming.

 

I always tell people to look at the transfer agreements even before registering for their first semester. Here, some of the colleges are very specific even for the humanities. In other words, they might allow you to transfer in drawing as your fine arts credit, but not pottery. Or you can transfer in speech but not drama in the communications category. So you can't just pick any class at the community college in a given category. Or you run into what my oldest faces. The local college doesn't offer 3 of the classes he needs, so he has to take them online from the neighboring CC. That's fine, but all of those end up being electives on the CC degree. And the CC requires some courses that the 4-year will count as electives. So you have to map it all out from the beginning if you want to be efficient about it. 

[bettyandbob]

 

In VA, it depends upon each CC and each University and your intended program of study. None of the math/science would transfer from our local (in VA) CC to VA Tech for anything other than general elective credit. English/History/Fine Arts/Foreign Language would transfer, though. But not having those general ed courses in math/science transfer in for credit means you can't get into your upper levels until you have the pre-rec's ... so you're kind of stuck.

 

OK weird. I thought Virginia's cc were all connected. And thought because they were connected they'd have the same transfer agreements.

 

VA Tech engineering has had transfer agreements with NVCC since the 1970s. My brother took several math and engineering there for transfer. He asked at NVCC and contacted VT to be sure way back then.

 

Today the transfer agreements are much more formalized with the VA cc system and various state schools. The transfer requirements to VT engineering are different than other programs at VT, but it is set up.

 

I thought the state mandated years ago that direct transfer be available all over the state.

 

ETA I just did a quick compare of Tidewater cc and NVCC and NVCC has a lot more in choices for transfer and articulation agreements. I guess I knew my local cc was good. I have to remember other people don't have the same local resources.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Diana P.

[The Girls' Mom]

Community colleges are great, if you do your research.  Just like any other school, they can vary greatly.  

The one that I attend, along with my oldest dd (full time) and younger dd (DE), has transfer agreements that are very specifically laid out for the state universities.  The classes are aligned with what the university wants to see in their incoming transfer students.  

 

[Ellie]

 

I don't think I've ever knocked CC as a means to an end -- I've only strongly encouraged people to not go in blindly thinking that they can just do 2 years at a CC and then magically transfer everything to their intended university.  It usually works for humanities/social sciences --  it may be more complicated for hard sciences and math, and nearly impossible between states.  I hear way too many people making assumptions about 2 years in CC and transferring elsewhere.  

 

That varies widely by state.

 

California c.c. transfer students are accepted at the state university and college ahead of high school students with all the right credits and test scores and whatnot.

[FaithManor]

I think CC is a great place to start if one lives in a state where their quality is regulated. I do not, so the local CC is so bad that most of the state schools will not accept their credits. Sigh....I'd love to have the California system in which the CC's have so much oversight that they are really good.

 

It's a great way to go for a lot of kids.

[HS Mom in NC]

A kid at church was homeschooled until 16, at the local cc, then ASU and an internship,  and just got accepted into Stanford for graduate school on a full ride academic scholarship. He's studying biochemistry.

Almost all credits at our local cc are accepted at ASU, UofA and NAU in our state.  They expect the ccs to be feeder schools to universities.  Two of the professors have told my kids they used to work at selective universities but took jobs at the cc because the pay was better and they had more control over what they taught and how they taught it.  Some of the professors are a joke.  One idiot spends a lot of class time telling the students about personal finances when the class is about business accounting. Sigh.

For us, it means our kids can avoid 2 years of debt because we can pay for all of their cc out of pocket. They'll have to get and pay back loans for 2 years if they go to university.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[Crimson Wife]

 

The downside is that there is a negative "vibe" because so many students end up not graduating. It runs around 25% within three years, which is sad. Most of the state schools here run 65% or more within five years for a 4-year degree. When I was teaching at the local community college, I had several semesters where only one or two students would get an "A," primarily because so few did all of the work. So it's a different environment.

 

The true graduation rate may be a bit higher because of the method that the Feds use to calculate graduation rate. A student who starts at CC and transfers prior to earning an associate's degree counts against the CC even if he/she graduates on time from the 4 year school. That seems very unfair to me because I would count that as a CC success story. There's a big difference between dropping out and transferring but the methodology treats the two as equivalent.

 

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

It all comes down to where you live for CC and where you want to transfer to. There is a HUGE variance from state to state.

 

My brother went to CC in FL -- zero of his courses transferred to his 4-year for anything other than general elective credit. Which meant he had to start from scratch.

 

In VA, it depends upon each CC and each University and your intended program of study. None of the math/science would transfer from our local (in VA) CC to VA Tech for anything other than general elective credit. English/History/Fine Arts/Foreign Language would transfer, though. But not having those general ed courses in math/science transfer in for credit means you can't get into your upper levels until you have the pre-rec's ... so you're kind of stuck.

 

I don't think I've ever knocked CC as a means to an end -- I've only strongly encouraged people to not go in blindly thinking that they can just do 2 years at a CC and then magically transfer everything to their intended university. It usually works for humanities/social sciences -- it may be more complicated for hard sciences and math, and nearly impossible between states. I hear way too many people making assumptions about 2 years in CC and transferring elsewhere.

Looks like math and science gen Ed requirements do transfer if I am reading the pdf correctly:

http://www.admiss.vt.edu/apply/virginia-community-college-system/

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It is important to consider the end goal and how or if each course will help meet that goal.

 

Here in Hawaii an AA/AS degree requires a course that fills a Hawaiian studies requirement. Various language, geology, botany, literature and even navigation and sailing can fill this. But if the goal is to move on to a mainland university those credits will be gen Ed unless they specifically meet a need at the gaining school.

 

So a transferring student needs to weigh if he needs the AA/AS to transfer sucessfully or if it's better to have a different course load but not get the AA/AS.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Fwiw this is partly a matter of reading the directions and thinking through the steps.

 

A couple years ago I took my son to register for his first DE class. It was the last week of registration and the online registration was down. There was a line of recent high school grads trying to register. The registration staff kept working the line and pulling out students who hadn't picked a course or section because they didn't realize that was up to them as a student. They were also pulling out people to go do the orientation online training and placement tests, steps that were listed on the website but that the students hadn't done before going to get classes.

[CinV]

It all comes down to where you live for CC and where you want to transfer to.  There is a HUGE variance from state to state.  

 

My brother went to CC in FL -- zero of his courses transferred to his 4-year for anything other than general elective credit.  Which meant he had to start from scratch.

 

 

 

Yes, it helps to research transfer agreements beforehand.  I went to CC in FL and every single one of my 64 hours transferred to UF (and would have transferred into any state university without an issue).  

[LisaKinVA]

Looks like math and science gen Ed requirements do transfer if I am reading the pdf correctly:

http://www.admiss.vt.edu/apply/virginia-community-college-system/

That sounds wonderful (and recent change) however there is a huge caveat. Your CC has to offer those exact courses. And, even that could have an additional caveat (only that course from specific schools qualifies for specific credit vs. Elective credit)

 

For example, say your CC offers Intro to Physics 1 and 2 -- these transfer only as general elective credits. Yay! You get 8 credit hours, but still have to take VT Gen Physics 1 and 2 before you can begin your upper level courses. But, at least you got 8 hours towards graduation. If your CC only offers Technical Physics, you're out of luck on both counts. The articulation agreement does spell out that these (transferable) courses may not be offered at all VCCS locations.

[wendyroo]

Then, there is the truth. My dc have found that the majority of the classes are equal to or surpass what the 4 year schools offer. The science labs are not always equal. You have fewer students per class. You usually have an actual professor teaching. Dc attend for many reasons. Sometimes it is because they can't get in elsewhere or they cannot afford to, but sometimes it is because they prefer to start there. Sometimes they want a more economic choice.

 

I think this varies WILDLY.

 

I took classes at two community colleges during my middle school years; they were both absolute jokes.  A calculus class that was pre-calc at best.  A psych class that was fully graded by multiple choice/true-false tests and did not require any papers or even short answers.  A writing class that spent an entire semester unsuccessfully trying to teach the standard five paragraph essay.

 

When I moved on to dual enrollment at the local university (during high school) it was a big step up.  Classes could have rudimentary discussions because at least 50% of the students did the required reading.  The classes were still barely more than high-school level, but with initiative I could learn something from them.

 

When I started at MIT it was a different world.  Orders of magnitude harder than the university and unrecognizable compared to the community college.

 

Much later in life I decided to try going to a (different) community college to continue my Spanish education.  I tested into Spanish 3, but when I showed up my skills were far above the other students and THE TEACHER WAS NOT FLUENT IN SPANISH!!!  She could not help me understand an article from a Spanish language newspaper and admitted that her skills were rusty and that she just stayed ahead of the students in the textbook.  For Spanish 3!?!?!  How would that even be acceptable for Spanish 1 at the college level?!?!

 

That is the crux of the issue - I have not found the three community colleges I attended (in two different states) to be anywhere near college level.

 

Wendy

[katilac]

 

Much later in life I decided to try going to a (different) community college to continue my Spanish education.  I tested into Spanish 3, but when I showed up my skills were far above the other students and THE TEACHER WAS NOT FLUENT IN SPANISH!!!   

 

Did you go to Greendale?? 

 

I miss no chances to make a Community reference. 

[MerryAtHope]

Our CC is part of a state-wide initiative. Courses are regulated and automatically accepted by all of the state schools as well as a number of private schools. They have a system of approving a course and assigning it a number recognized by all of the schools that are part of the initiative. If a school is not on the list, you may have to do more leg work to get courses to transfer, though that can often turn out well too. It really makes college within reach for us--and likely wouldn't be otherwise.

Edited April 9, 2016 by MerryAtHope

[MarkT]

Our CC is part of a state-wide initiative. Courses are regulated and automatically accepted by all of the state schools as well as a number of private schools. They have a system of approving a course and assigning it a number recognized by all of the schools that are part of the initiative. If a school is not on the list, you may have to do more leg work to get courses to transfer, though that can often turn out well too. It really makes college within reach for us--and likely wouldn't be otherwise.

We have the same setup in AZ, so once again the state where you live matters a lot when it comes to educational opportunities.

[LisaKinVA]

Our CC is part of a state-wide initiative. Courses are regulated and automatically accepted by all of the state schools as well as a number of private schools. They have a system of approving a course and assigning it a number recognized by all of the schools that are part of the initiative. If a school is not on the list, you may have to do more leg work to get courses to transfer, though that can often turn out well too. It really makes college within reach for us--and likely wouldn't be otherwise.

 

I think that's what is happening in VA -- based upon the 2014 agreement posted earlier.  This was most certainly not the case when we first investigated DE with our local CC, as VA Tech wouldn't accept any of the math and science courses.  It was a long, long list of "general elective" credit.  Now, when you click on Tech's course equivalency chart, there are much more courses that will transfer.  Of course, none of that matters now -- since we're overseas anyway, and not enrolling in our local CC

 

If we move back, we will re-investigate this as an option for our children at that time.  Of course, I have no idea what child #4 or #5 might do.  Child #3 is Pre-Med or Game Design (animation, programming, etc.), but he's also 12.

[MarkT]

I think that's what is happening in VA -- based upon the 2014 agreement posted earlier.  This was most certainly not the case when we first investigated DE with our local CC, as VA Tech wouldn't accept any of the math and science courses.  It was a long, long list of "general elective" credit.  Now, when you click on Tech's course equivalency chart, there are much more courses that will transfer.  Of course, none of that matters now -- since we're overseas anyway, and not enrolling in our local CC

 

If we move back, we will re-investigate this as an option for our children at that time.  Of course, I have no idea what child #4 or #5 might do.  Child #3 is Pre-Med or Game Design (animation, programming, etc.), but he's also 12.

Do VA CCs offer any online classes you could take now?

[katilac]

Our community college has the agreement where credits will transfer in-state, but the quality is still noticeably lower in most courses (amount covered, etc). 

 

So, if you just want to knock out the one math credit you need for your major, it might work out fine. If you are taking the math credit as part of a sequence you will complete at university, you will be underprepared. 

[Crimson Wife]

 I took classes at two community colleges during my middle school years; they were both absolute jokes.  A calculus class that was pre-calc at best.  A psych class that was fully graded by multiple choice/true-false tests and did not require any papers or even short answers.  A writing class that spent an entire semester unsuccessfully trying to teach the standard five paragraph essay.

 

I've been taking Communicative Disorders classes through both a 4-year university (to earn my 2nd bachelor's) and a semi-local CC (to satisfy state requirements for a Speech & Language Pathology Assistant license). The material is similar but the grading standards are very different. In my 2nd bachelor's courses, all the exams allow only a single attempt and most are closed-book & proctored. In the CC courses, all the exams are open-book, don't have to be proctored, and take the highest score of 2 attempts. I typically score perfect 100's on my CC exams but have never done so on any of the 2nd bachelor's exams.

[MarkT]

Our community college has the agreement where credits will transfer in-state, but the quality is still noticeably lower in most courses (amount covered, etc). 

 

So, if you just want to knock out the one math credit you need for your major, it might work out fine. If you are taking the math credit as part of a sequence you will complete at university, you will be underprepared. 

Why don't the state U's push the CCs to do better?  Here in AZ they work together - of course you could get stuck with a bad instructor but that can happen anywhere.

[wendyroo]

Why don't the state U's push the CCs to do better?  Here in AZ they work together - of course you could get stuck with a bad instructor but that can happen anywhere.

 

In my experience it is because the community colleges are trying to balance two very different needs.  On one hand, they want to prepare transfer students to succeed at 4 year universities.  However, on the other hand, their primary goal is to make it easy enough that almost anyone can successfully graduate from the community college with a 2 year degree.

 

If they raise the level of courses so they are equivalent to what is covered at flagship state schools, then they will make them unpassable for many students who are at the community college specifically because they do not have the academic abilities required for a 4 year school.

 

At least, that is the dynamic I have seen.

 

Wendy

[LisaKinVA]

Do VA CCs offer any online classes you could take now?

 

To be honest, between the time difference, our difficulty with live-streaming, and the cost, I haven't investigated them at all.  We have access to Central Texas and UMUC here (still expensive), but at least they are here.

 

Right now, we are taking everything we can AP free through the DoD school (even if that means virtual classes at the high school library).  That's simply our best bet.  Beyond that, I'm looking for lectures we can download, MOOCs with shorter lectures seem to work well (Coursera and EdX), and whatever texts we can get that lend themselves to self-teaching (AoPS, Life of Fred...The Great Courses).  Math and science are our biggest hurdles, but the DE courses we can take really don't go very far.

[MarkT]

In my experience it is because the community colleges are trying to balance two very different needs.  On one hand, they want to prepare transfer students to succeed at 4 year universities.  However, on the other hand, their primary goal is to make it easy enough that almost anyone can successfully graduate from the community college with a 2 year degree.

 

If they raise the level of courses so they are equivalent to what is covered at flagship state schools, then they will make them unpassable for many students who are at the community college specifically because they do not have the academic abilities required for a 4 year school.

 

At least, that is the dynamic I have seen.

 

Wendy

Then the CC needs to provide both transferable and "lite" courses.  No excuse.  Most of the 2 year "terminal" degrees at our local CC don't require Calculus 1 for example.

[G5052]

Then the CC needs to provide both transferable and "lite" courses.  No excuse.  Most of the 2 year "terminal" degrees at our local CC don't require Calculus 1 for example.

 

And many do that, especially with math, science, and sometimes English.

 

Locally, a one-year (three semester) certificate in practical nursing requires only that you can show math competency through what would be considered high school algebra II. If you can't show that via recent SAT/ACT scores or college placement testing, you have to take the remedial math sequence there to that level.

 

Nursing requires math competency through college algebra.

 

Transfer degrees require at least two semesters of math at the college level once they place there. Those in the liberal arts take two semesters of math for liberal arts. My oldest is a transfer business program that requires one semester of calculus for social sciences and one semester of statistics. Pre-engineering and pre-science majors of course have to take the most through vector calculus.

[goldberry]

In our state, the CCs have very specific "guaranteed transfer" classes for the in-state universities.  It's a great plan.  I assume it varies out of state, but at the very least you know you could go in-state.

[mom2att]

Our community college has the agreement where credits will transfer in-state, but the quality is still noticeably lower in most courses (amount covered, etc). 

 

So, if you just want to knock out the one math credit you need for your major, it might work out fine. If you are taking the math credit as part of a sequence you will complete at university, you will be underprepared. 

 

This was our experience as well. Our state colleges and universities are linked, so anything taken at the cc will transfer to the university system, though not always as intended. The state flagship will accept calculus taken at the cc as an elective only--they want to use their own Calc 1 as a weed-out class for their engineering program, for example.

 

Dd took a number of classes from the local cc, which then did transfer as intended to the university. But she just took gen ed classes that everybody needs, like Psych, Soc, Econ, etc., and also the math credits that she needed for her humanities major.

 

She definitely found that the cc classes were easier. Her first semester of college was more difficult than expected, because those cc classes she had aced so easily were not what she encountered at the uni.

 

[Grantmom]

I am pretty sure that in VA, it varies with the CC.  The particular CC has to have an articulation agreement with that particular school.  So it's not just between all CCs and all state 4-year universities.  And then there are different articulation agreements for different majors.  Our local CC has an articulation agreement with VT, so if you wanted to major in engineering there, you have to follow that to the letter.  I do know a lot of people do it.  I'm still unsure about it though.

[MarkT]

This was our experience as well. Our state colleges and universities are linked, so anything taken at the cc will transfer to the university system, though not always as intended. The state 1) flagship will accept calculus taken at the cc as an elective only--they want to use their own Calc 1 as a weed-out class for their engineering program, for example.

 

 

2) She definitely found that the cc classes were easier. Her first semester of college was more difficult than expected, because those cc classes she had aced so easily were not what she encountered at the uni.

 

1)  How does that work??  Every college I know, you can only get graduation credit for just one Calculus 1 class. In a more ideal academic world, state flagship would help the CC create a Calculus 1 weed-out class such as "Calculus 1 for STEM majors".

 

2) They shouldn't be for equivalent classes - that's the big problem and why folks are afraid of attending these schools.

[LisaKinVA]

1)  How does that work??  Every college I know, you can only get graduation credit for just one Calculus 1 class. In a more ideal academic world, state flagship would help the CC create a Calculus 1 weed-out class such as "Calculus 1 for STEM majors".

 

2) They shouldn't be for equivalent classes - that's the big problem and why folks are afraid of attending these schools.

 

You don't get credit for Calc 1 from the CC, period.  It transfers over as a general math elective.  So, you'll still only have credit for the one Calc1 class at the university on your final transcript.

[LisaKinVA]

I am pretty sure that in VA, it varies with the CC.  The particular CC has to have an articulation agreement with that particular school.  So it's not just between all CCs and all state 4-year universities.  And then there are different articulation agreements for different majors.  Our local CC has an articulation agreement with VT, so if you wanted to major in engineering there, you have to follow that to the letter.  I do know a lot of people do it.  I'm still unsure about it though.

 

It looks like in 2014 there was a law passed which created more of a linked system in VA.  However, the agreement is for a specifically coded class (all CC's will use the same code for a certain class, which is supposed to use the same standard curriculum). Those courses -- and ONLY those courses -- are guaranteed to transfer class-for-class to every VA public, and I think every (or most) private school in the state.  The big caveat and what people have to watch out for, is that those specific courses are not available at all VA CC's.  If your CC doesn't offer the right Physics, Calculus, English, etc. course it may only transfer for elective credit (or none at all).  It is my hope that this linked system will encourage the CC's to work toward a more standardized system, but the state CC's aren't all there, yet.

 

It certainly is better than it was 2-3 years ago when I initially researched DE for my oldest.  NOTHING besides a handful of English/history type courses would transfer.  The list of "elective credit" transfers was long.  Today, that has changed a lot for not just our local CC, but numerous others (our local CC courses would transfer to the local uni, but not to UVA or Tech, CVCC's courses would transfer to LU or Randolph Macon, but not Tech, UVA or GMU -- and so it went.  This standardization has definitely been a huge step in the right direction for VA's CCs

[wendyroo]

1)  How does that work??  Every college I know, you can only get graduation credit for just one Calculus 1 class. In a more ideal academic world, state flagship would help the CC create a Calculus 1 weed-out class such as "Calculus 1 for STEM majors".

 

 

It's true your transcript can not list multiple instances of Calc 1, but many universities think so little of calc taken at community colleges that they don't consider those classes adequate as Calc 1.  They will accept the class for college credit, but list it on your transcript as a generic elective; you then have to take the university's Calc 1 to fulfill the math requirement. 

 

Wendy

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Here's an example from my experience -

 

RE: Course equivalency -- Into to Psych at our CC is a 3 credit class.  All three credits are lecture based and include two 75 minute class meetings a week.

 

All three of the nearest 4 year schools (2 LACs, 1 state uni) include a lab component with Intro with a minimum of 3 50 min class hours and a 1.5-2 hour lab once a week.

 

Our intro class only transfers in as 3/4 credit.  Any one interested in a pysch major or minor must retake psych or enroll in Psych 102  This is as it should be.  Our classes are not equivalent.  Even if the student is majoring in something else, say communications, the psych class did not meet the requirements for full credit at any of the schools and full credit should not be applied.  

 

 

RE:  Schools know the difference - My DD wanted to take summer classes this year at the local CC to ensure a December graduation at her LAC. She needs 2 four-credit classes.  None are offered by our local CC with the exception of certain lab sciences and a math class.  The remaining courses just aren't rigorous enough (?) to qualify as 4 credits. She would have to take 3 courses at our local CC in order to earn enough credits to transfer to the LAC to meet the needs of her two course deficit.  Her LAC is encouraging her to take classes at a CC 50 miles away.  This CC has a better reputation for academic rigor and the courses will transfer in 1:1.  

 

The majority (not all) of the local CC students who plan on transferring to 4-year schools usually find themselves in transfer-shock for a semester.

 

---

While I am not advocating for nationwide standards, I do agree with the idea that there needs to be a set benchmark for those classes which might be considered universal.  How to do this and what it would look like, I don't know.  

Edited April 10, 2016 by ScoutermominIL

[Kassia]

My son was a DE student at the CC and took Calc 1 - Calc 4  (Differential Equations) there.  All of his calc classes went towards his engineering degree when he started at our flagship state university as an engineering major.  In fact, almost all of the credits he earned at the CC went towards his degree - math, science, and almost all of his gen ed courses.  The calc classes at the CC were excellent courses - better than the ones at the university.

 

Erica

Edited April 10, 2016 by ebh87

[angela in ohio]

In our state, the CCs have very specific "guaranteed transfer" classes for the in-state universities.  It's a great plan.  I assume it varies out of state, but at the very least you know you could go in-state.

 

Michigan has the same. They are evaluated every few years, and the list of courses which transfer changes regularly. It's a pretty useful system, and many students take advantage of it to go from CC to state schools.

[Reefgazer]

The buzz in this part of the woods is that the local community college prepares students in the sciences better than the local 4 year.  Somewhat troubling to me because I do not think the community college is all that rigorous.

Edited April 11, 2016 by reefgazer