quark Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Trying to figure this out for a friend. She wants to rent a room from a family in their single family home. The room rent is about $800 a month and she is trying to reduce that by cooking for them regularly in return. They will be willing to cover groceries and she is able to cook for them about 20-25 days of the month. Small family so she will only cook for about 4 people including herself. Do you think asking for a 50% reduction in rent is fair if she cooks for them? I don't think the family will agree to a straight barter. And all of this will go into a written agreement so that both sides play fair. Has anyone done this before? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) I see pitfalls ahead for your friend, if the family is not happy with her cooking, or they are not happy with something else. If she is cooking for 3 people, 3 meals a day, most days of the month, and washing the dishes/pots/pans, I think they might go for a $400 reduction, if she is an excellent cook. This would make her their employee, in addition to their renter. Tricky, legally and in other ways. Gl to her! ETA: You need to play "Devils Advocate" and not allow ANYTHING that is ambiguous in the written contract. Edited December 24, 2015 by Lanny 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 What does 'cook' mean? Every meal? Just dinner? Does it include cleaning the kitchen after? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 *sigh* Just have to say that would be my dream, to have someone cook yummy healthy food for my family. If I had money I would SO pay someone to do that. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 What does 'cook' mean? Every meal? Just dinner? Does it include cleaning the kitchen after? Good points....... all of this would need to be determined in advance. And contingencies for sick days or when she needs to go out of town or "whatever". She might be better off with a credit per meal towards the next month's rent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 She might need to reframe things as being hired as a live in personal chef. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Wow. I can't imagine paying $800 for a single room! Even if it was rather large and had a private bath. I hope she is able to work it out. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) Thanks everyone. Cook means everything, from meal planning to buying groceries and cleaning up afterwards. She cooks a lot anyway so I don't think it's a biggie (although she says she would honestly rather have someone cook for her lol). Yes, a room in a decent area with good access to public transport and colleges etc will cost $800-ish in the SF Bay Area. Edited December 24, 2015 by quark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Since it means shopping and cleanup in addition to prep, it's definitely worth half the rent. Hope it works out for her. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Thanks everyone. Cook means everything, from meal planning to buying groceries and cleaning up afterwards. She cooks a lot anyway so I don't think it's a biggie (although she says she would honestly rather have someone cook for her lol). Yes, a room in a decent area with good access to public transport and colleges etc will cost $800-ish in the SF Bay Area. All three meals? Will she have time for that? On top of working or school? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 All three meals? Will she have time for that? On top of working or school? I don't have all the details but yes, I think she said she can manage that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I don't have all the details but yes, I think she said she can manage that. Would she be able to do things, like lunches, in advance, so she wouldn't always have to be there when the meal is served? Those are all things she needs to consider. And for three meals a day, most days of the month, I'd expect more than half the rent. I would expect $10 off minimum for each dinner prepped, and at least $5 for each breakfast/lunch. Actually more, if required to do all of the dishes afterwards. She should get the equivalent of minimum wage for hours worked taken off of her rent. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 Would she be able to do things, like lunches, in advance, so she wouldn't always have to be there when the meal is served? Those are all things she needs to consider. And for three meals a day, most days of the month, I'd expect more than half the rent. I would expect $10 off minimum for each dinner prepped, and at least $5 for each breakfast/lunch. Actually more, if required to do all of the dishes afterwards. She should get the equivalent of minimum wage for hours worked taken off of her rent. This is really helpful. Thanks so much. I'll let her know! :001_smile: Thanks again to everyone who responded! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Planning, shopping, cooking, and cleaning afterward? Surely minimum wage would make that well over $400/mo! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I would calculate hours spent and apply minimum wage. I hope it works out for her! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerileanne99 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 If I was doing all the shopping, planning, and cooking I would want a schedule. With definite nights off that the family could plan for, but also because who wants to plan dinner and suddenly realize the family was going out for a pizza celebration? Of course, always room for a bit of negotiation, but I would want it laid out in advance... And what happens if she ends up cooking more or less? Regardless of whether it is due to her schedule or that of the family, I would want a hard and fast minimum/maximum so the family couldn't say 'but you only cooked X so have to pay more rent.' (Unless I didn't meet the min requirements of course) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) Sounds like a path to disaster, imo. Your friend sounds as though she is doing the work of a live in employee. She deserves a salary, not a rent reduction. Sounds to me as though a caretaker, housekeeper, house sitter job might be better for now. The cooking job could take many more hours than she expects. If things don't work out, she has a lot to lose. Ymmv. JMHO. Do the math. A $$400 reduction works out to less than $20/day. With minimum wage approaching $10/hour in some places, she could be working for less than minimum if she works > 2 hrs/day. Or did I miss something? ETA. Renters have certain protections against eviction, varies by state. Would she lose that protection? I would also want to check IRS and see if taxes are owed on the reduced rent amount. Sometimes these things can come back and haunt you later. From the point of view of the owners, less tax to pay on rental income and no household employment taxes to pay. Edited December 25, 2015 by Alessandra 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I thought 800 sounded very high, too, until you let on it is SF Bay area. Now seems far more reasonable. For the amount ot work they want her to do, they should offer FREE room and board and PAY her, too. Seriously. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 I will give her a summary of every reply here just to help her consider options. Thanks again. You guys are SO helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I agree with everyone who has posted so far, and I wanted to add a question -- who is paying for the food, and who makes the menus? Will your friend have to cook everyone's meals to order every day? I can imagine one person wanting pancakes and another wanting eggs and a third person wanting homemade waffles... and that's just breakfast. I can see this arrangement going horribly, horribly wrong. Are you sure your friend wouldn't be better off working at a part time job to earn the rent money and then being able to relax when she gets home? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 With planning, shopping, cooking, and clean-up for 75 meals, that's easily worth $800 a month. In her position, I'd divide the cost per meal and make dinner 'worth' more. Then, let them choose if she makes all the meals in exchange for rent or just dinners in exchange for 50% off. If she does every meal for only a 50% reduction she'll feel like an indentured servant very quickly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slackermom Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I once worked for someone for 12 hours a week, in exchange for a free room in a large house, doing light housekeeping for a family. I had a weekly routine (dust, vacuum, laundry, change sheets, etc.) that took the majority of the time, and various seasonal projects as time allowed. It was in a high rent area: Harvard Square in Cambridge, MA. I shared an upper floor with two renters who paid market rate. We had a separate kitchen and bath on our floor. If your friend will be sharing a kitchen with the owner, and would be cooking everyday anyway, the line could be very blurry between what is normal roommate stuff vs providing a service. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Wow. I can't imagine paying $800 for a single room! Even if it was rather large and had a private bath. I hope she is able to work it out. In Palo Alto (Stanford University is there) the typical one bedroom apartment rents for $2500 a month. In San Francisco it is probably more than that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Ok, so if she pays $800 and doesn't cook, she has to buy her own meals but if she cooks for them, her meals would be included too as she would buy for them and for her? That seems like an additional $300+ reduction in her rent if that is the case as she most likely eats $300 or so per month. Has that been factored in? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) Yes, a room in a decent area with good access to public transport and colleges etc will cost $800-ish in the SF Bay Area.This sounds right. We are on the outer fringes of the Bay Area, and a friend rents out *beds* for $750 a month (*w/o* good access to public transport or colleges) (so, two students sharing a room for $1500/mo., no kitchen privileges, no private bath or entry. Crazy! One summer of this and she bought herself a car with the $$$.I've toyed with doing this myself, haha, but value my privacy :) Edited December 26, 2015 by Laura in CA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 With minimum wage approaching $10/hour in some places, she could be working for less than minimum if she works > 2 hrs/day. Yes, on January 1st, minimum wage in CA increases from $9 to $10/h. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Wow. I can't imagine paying $800 for a single room! Even if it was rather large and had a private bath. I hope she is able to work it out. No doubt. That is what we pay for a 3 bed/ 2 bath house. Granted, it is in small town Iowa, but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I just read that in CA the Minimum Wage, starting January 1, 2016, will be USD $10.00 per hour. I believe (but am not sure about this) that the Minimum Wage in San Francisco may be about USD $15.00 per hour at this time. I believe it would be better for your friend to find a Part Time Job, somewhere, and keep her living arrangement completely separate from her work. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 That is waaaaaay too much work for $400/month, imo. If she really thinks it would be worth it, and easier than outside work, then I would spell it out EXACTLY. No guesstimates like 20-25 days a month; it would have to be "20 plate dinners per month, 20 lunches, 20 breakfasts. Lunch can be hot or cold and might include leftovers, sandwiches, or salads. Breakfast might be hot or cold and may include...whatever the heck people cook for breakfast." She has to be specific. She might be thinking a hot breakfast once or twice a week, they might be expecting a bounty platter with eggs, bacon, biscuits, and hash browns every day. Talk it out, then write it down. People do not remember the same conversation in the same ways. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 Are you sure your friend wouldn't be better off working at a part time job to earn the rent money and then being able to relax when she gets home? Okay, she is now seriously considering this instead. Thought I should come back and update. :001_smile: Thanks again everyone. I learned a quite a few things myself from this thread! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Okay, she is now seriously considering this instead. Thought I should come back and update. :001_smile: Thanks again everyone. I learned a quite a few things myself from this thread! Thank you for posting the update -- I was wondering what she had decided to do! :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Okay, she is now seriously considering this instead. Thought I should come back and update. :001_smile: Thanks again everyone. I learned a quite a few things myself from this thread! Good to hear. I hope it works out for her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 That is waaaaaay too much work for $400/month, imo. If she really thinks it would be worth it, and easier than outside work, then I would spell it out EXACTLY. No guesstimates like 20-25 days a month; it would have to be "20 plate dinners per month, 20 lunches, 20 breakfasts. Lunch can be hot or cold and might include leftovers, sandwiches, or salads. Breakfast might be hot or cold and may include...whatever the heck people cook for breakfast." She has to be specific. She might be thinking a hot breakfast once or twice a week, they might be expecting a bounty platter with eggs, bacon, biscuits, and hash browns every day. Talk it out, then write it down. People do not remember the same conversation in the same ways. Not really IMO. If it includes the food itself, that could be an additional $300-$400, making it $700-$800/mo. OP said she enjoys cooking anyway, so it may not be that much more work for her. Could be "free rent" essentially, which is unheard of in SF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 If she cooks all the meals, she should get her rent for free. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Not really IMO. If it includes the food itself, that could be an additional $300-$400, making it $700-$800/mo. OP said she enjoys cooking anyway, so it may not be that much more work for her. Could be "free rent" essentially, which is unheard of in SF! Only if she actually likes what she's required to cook and I doubt her portion of the food would be that much of the food budget............ but there are so many other variables besides this, which it sounds like are now being evaluated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Still thinking about this... Say owners lost a job, no longer need a cook? One owner travels for work, less cooking? Or get an offer for more rent, then say they do not like her cooking? In each case, they could say that apartment was still hers... for $800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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