College Savings Reality Check JAWM

[SKL]

Even I only got pell grants for the first year or two, and they were a fraction of my tuition.  My parents were high school dropouts with 6 kids.  We were on free lunch etc.  We even got government cheese at one point.

 

I hope it is easier to get interest-deferred student loans, as it was in my college days.  I am not opposed to a modest amount of student debt.  I think it is totally worth it, if the degree is a serious one.

[Matryoshka]

I think it also is important to remember that not everyone gets to go to their first-choice school.  Neither we parents nor the financial aid machine owes any of our kids their first-choice college.  There are many, many paths to a college education.  It's a pretty fair bet that one or more of those paths will work for your kid, but there may be no path to School X or to four years at School X.  Managing your child's expectations is a critical component of this process.

 

This.  In answer to Tsuga's ask about our own stories, my parents basically told us that they could afford the flagship U (which at that point was waaaay less money...).  If we wanted to go anywhere else, we were responsible for the difference.  When my kids were younger, I had a bit more optimistic attitude about maybe being able to finance something above that.  Now, we're pretty much in the same place.  If they go to in-state public, we'll do our best to cover that.  If they want to go somewhere else, they need to get scholarships or take loans (no more than the $5K/year or so allowed, though) - we're not going to take out Parent Plus loans or mortgage the house, unless they're going to plan to have us dependent on them when we're older (and really, none of us want that!), because there just isn't enough money for us to retire and take out loans - how are people expected to pay off loans after they no longer have any income?  We've saved the max in our 401Ks since we were in our 20's.  Yeah, compounding interest was a lie.  It's still not enough - we might manage to not be destitute, but we won't have money to pay of tens of thousands of debt (with high interest rates, so it's really way more!) from our retirement savings!  Not with the interest rates at <1% - the plan used to be save enough to live off the interest.  That just isn't possible anymore, and if you're using up the principal, it isn't going to last long, even with a lifetime of savings.

 

This is very true.  CC can be extraordinarily valuable.  But, for specific majors, it can also be a waste of time.  You also should be checking into your state's dual enrollement perks, if you have any.

 

Here, if our kids test at a specific level (either on ACT or Compass) they are allowed to take some classes totally free, such as GenEd requirements like Composition I & II, Lit classes, Oral Communication.  Also, for advanced math students, they will pay for Trig, Calculus, and classes you may not be able to teach at homeschool/high school that would put them "behind" going into the State U programs.  These credits can add up.  I know for our state kids can earn 23 credits per year.  That gives them sophmore or junior standing.  Now, granted, many of these classes are a waste of time for a student going into Engineering, etc., *however, for many majors it would get their GenEd out of the way.  Not every state will fund dual enrollment and some states will fund 50% and some none at all.  But it is something to check into.

 

My two older kids seem to have each chosen a good path for them.  The computer science major stayed in school - she's not going to get out of a lot of beginning classes even with APs, but I don't think CC classes would have worked any better.  Best thing for her was keeping her grades up and a high ACT.

 

Her twin sister completely threw me for a loop when she rather abruptly asked to come home again after 10th.  But she's now going to have 40+ credits between CC, AP and CLEPs.  It looks like she'll most likely be going to that 2nd-tier State U, which besides being affordable, will give her credit for all of it (which a private LAC wouldn't), which means she also might be able to be done in 3 years instead of 4...  in hindsight, it seems like the CC route was a great path for her.

 

3rd dd is a freshman in ps now.  She does not test as well as either of the others, and her grades have been spotty (mostly due to not wanting to actually study for tests).  I have no idea what the 'right' path is for her yet.  Hopefully that will become more apparent as she goes through the high school years...

[creekland]

I think it also is important to remember that not everyone gets to go to their first-choice school.  Neither we parents nor the financial aid machine owes any of our kids their first-choice college.  There are many, many paths to a college education.  It's a pretty fair bet that one or more of those paths will work for your kid, but there may be no path to School X or to four years at School X.  Managing your child's expectations is a critical component of this process.

 

I've said it before in other threads, but I'll add it again here.  I went to my second choice school due to money (Va Tech vs Duke).  At the time I had to decide, we weren't positive the ROTC scholarship was going to cover what I wanted to study, so I chose the less expensive school.

 

It ended up being the best decision I ever made.  I had a great time, got a great education, met hubby, and wouldn't change that decision to the other school now under any circumstances.  Go Hokies!

 

I'm glad my boys all were able to attend their first choice schools, but to some extent, we also eliminated many schools from contention over probable financial issues before application time, so I've no real idea what their first choices would have been if money had not been an issue (except youngest - he wanted Eckerd or bust and was willing to work instead if finances hadn't worked out).  

 

And if they'd have been "stuck" with their second or third choice schools, they had my anecdote to go on to know their life wasn't over.

 

When I talk about savings I have, I'm including it all in one pot.  I don't have "retirement savings" and "education funds."  Whatever gets used up on my kids' school is that much less for my retirement.  I hope my paid-off house lasts and I hope social security and medicare are enough to cover the rest.  Hopefully my kids won't let me starve or freeze to death.

 

Our boys know very well that we aren't contributing a dime toward our retirement savings while they're in college (or med school down the road).  We joke about living in either middle son's basement (my med school guy) or living in a small RV in their driveways - switching locations when they give us gas money to head to their brother's house.   ;)

 

Fortunately, we're pretty close knit.  I'm not terribly worried about starving to death or freezing.  We all know we're in life together.

Edited November 24, 2015 by creekland

[Shellydon]

Also whenever having these conversations I do feel like... nobody talks about their own college journey. How did you guys pay for college? Am I on some generational cusp where we were the first ones to take out loans even while working 30 hours a week during school and 80 over summers? I remember all this stuff happening to ME. I'll never forget literally drooling looking at the vegetarian chili... my professor bought it for me! I was so hungry.

 

So I remember well, studying, the walks to the computer lab. I feel like others talk about their kids' experiences but I remember my own. Nothing seems to have changed much since then. People who get scholarships say "you should try scholarships" but I don't remember that working for many people except the Catholics. I mean some people get lucky but as a strategy it doesn't seem wise.

 

College was hard.  I worked part time during the year and full time in the summers.  DH and I got married part way through and our income was about $11,000 a year.  That paid rent, food and utilities and books.  We took out loans for tuition and fees, and got a few scholarships of $500.   My last year of graduate school I worked 30 hours a week and went to school full time.  One car, cheap housing.  I could not wait to graduate and only have to work 40 hours a week!   We graduated with about 45K of loans between the two of us (2 degrees for me, 3 for him) and paid that off within 4 years by continuing to live very frugally.  I worked overtime/extra jobs to pay off those loans as fast as possible. 

[IfIOnly]

Great discussion, y'all! The only thing I have to offer is to suggest checking out state college extension offices in your area. We have a great CC and two state uni extension offices. OSU offers 20 degrees through it's office. Obviously it's not the typical college experience going the CC plus state uni extension route, but it's a significantly less expensive one, especially if you're living with mom and dad meanwhile.

Edited November 24, 2015 by LavenderGirl

[Jane in NC]

Grants, loans, work-study, summer jobs, scholarships, some help from parents. What hurt me was losing aid when a sibling turned 18...it was assumed my parents, with income and family size no longer qualifying for reduced lunch, could use money spent on sib for me....but sib had been working and supporting himself other than rent since he was 16. And my parents were more ill than they told me. Had they been disabled, l would have qualified for more aid. But ill, nothing. My sib did receive more aid once my father passed, as income dropped - I was employed by then.

 

My cousins, all male, worked in the oil industry when classes were not in session and made enough that they didnt need loans.

 

My upper middle class friends all co-op'd. They chose majors where they could get a job in their home city and live at home.

 

Growing up in the industrial Midwest when I did, it was possible for students to take a semester off, do light factory work, regroup financially, then return to college. I even had one friend who worked as a lumberjack for a year to pay for college!  These days though high school grads seem to have a tough time finding work.  Children of small business owners have a leg up.

 

Co-ops for engineering students can be lucrative.  My husband's employer was paying close to $20 an hour last summer--and offering a 401-K match!

[IfIOnly]

And, I could add that our continuing to pay our cities rising COL and staying "in district" rather than move is helping our children with their college costs, should they choose local options. Crazy rental prices if you can even get one. Major housing shortage here.

[IfIOnly]

Growing up in the industrial Midwest when I did, it was possible for students to take a semester off, do light factory work, regroup financially, then return to college. I even had one friend who worked as a lumberjack for a year to pay for college! These days though high school grads seem to have a tough time finding work. Children of small business owners have a leg up.

 

Co-ops for engineering students can be lucrative. My husband's employer was paying close to $20 an hour last summer--and offering a 401-K match!

My kids are working for their dad now and saving for college! Of course, DH plans to hire them and pay them well in college (part-time) and following summers too, if they'd like. Edited November 24, 2015 by LavenderGirl

[Sarah CB]

State University, tuition & fees, one year is $12,500  (not books, or dorms, or food etc.)

 

Wow.  One year at our university is $2550 Canadian.  Adding in accommodation, food, health and dental coverage, books, and school fees brings it up to $13,141.  For Canadians.  $19,513 for international students.

[FairProspects]

I was noticing that those of us with more difficult college stories had younger kids, making it more likely that we were mid-1990s or later. Our situation was far different from those attending college in the 1980s, and this is even more true now.

 

So basically those of us in WA should move? :D Our state has the highest overall SAT scores in the nation, stiff competition all the way through for the limited spots at universities & programs, minimal to no merit scholarships at our flagship universities, and the UW doesn't accept CLEP or many CC classes. Wow. Interesting when you write it all out like that compared to elsewhere...

[Liz CA]

Military academies? I know it's not for everyone but if your kids are willing to serve and have good grades, the academies provide excellent education and a degree in exchange for service.

[IfIOnly]

Military academies? I know it's not for everyone but if your kids are willing to serve and have good grades, the academies provide excellent education and a degree in exchange for service.

 

My aunt was able to get her pharmaceutical degree thanks to putting in some time in the military. She has no regrets.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Our CC in the city is extremely affordable.  Cost me $509 for a 3 credit course.  That's with all fees.  Included in that is a bus pass that can be used on any city bus that goes anywhere.  Can't beat that deal!

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Most home schooled kids around here have abandoned the four-years-and-dorm-at-a-university model. Instead, all of them are taking advantage of dual enrollment while in high school, and then working part-time while finishing the general education courses at a community college. Most are getting those first two years done without debt. Some are done with a technical degree after those two years, and others are transferring to four-year universities to finish up the bachelor's degree.

 

If a young person saves $175-200 from each check while working part-time as a high school student (yes, the vast majority of the check) they will have enough to pay for one year at a community college, including books, while living at home. If they keep working part-time during the first year of college, they should have enough to pay for the second year (with maybe a little help from the parents.)

 

Just for reference, it's about $5,000/year (including books) at the community colleges around here, and ours are good ones with transfer agreements with colleges and universities in the state.

 

No that would literally be the entire check.  Which may not be doable if they have to pay other expenses.

[IfIOnly]

No that would literally be the entire check.  Which may not be doable if they have to pay other expenses.

 

Kids could possibly save up quite a bit for college by working part-time during high school and/or summers though. I don't know if that's on most teen's and parents' radar, but it is what some people do.

Edited November 24, 2015 by LavenderGirl

[Tsuga]

Huh? Is there some special "Catholic scholarship" pool I should know about?

Catholic LACs are some of the more generous I've heard, usually well-regarded academically, and many have special scholarships for Catholics. If I'd have been Carholic I'd have been able to apply for a lot more $. Maybe not get it but apply.

 

And yes always go through the church as well to find scholarships. Catholic people as individuals are not all rich but the church is pretty loaded.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Tsuga

[Tsuga]

Our CC in the city is extremely affordable. Cost me $509 for a 3 credit course. That's with all fees. Included in that is a bus pass that can be used on any city bus that goes anywhere. Can't beat that deal!

$509 for three credits is not affordable--for a full time load that ends up to be nearly $2,000 and three times per year? $6,000/year?

 

We can do it but uh, That's how much I paid for my four year degree.

[Tsuga]

Military academies? I know it's not for everyone but if your kids are willing to serve and have good grades, the academies provide excellent education and a degree in exchange for service.

I would be the proudest happiest mom on earth but I want them to have choices.

 

This thread does remind me to keep talking up the right (good, less expensive) schools.

[Tsuga]

I'm out of likes. So if I did not like your useful post, nothing personal.

[IfIOnly]

Going with kids being able to pay their own way or contribute to paying their way through college (not that I'm against parent's helping or fully funding it!), if a kid was able to do fully funded dual enrollment in high school and saved most of their money (a  high school student could easily earn $4,800 minus taxes a summer working fast food starting at 15 full time around here, for example), they could then possibly pay for a year of state uni. Maybe not everyone's dream experience, but it just goes to show there are options!  

[Tsuga]

I was noticing that those of us with more difficult college stories had younger kids, making it more likely that we were mid-1990s or later. Our situation was far different from those attending college in the 1980s, and this is even more true now.

 

So basically those of us in WA should move? :D Our state has the highest overall SAT scores in the nation, stiff competition all the way through for the limited spots at universities & programs, minimal to no merit scholarships at our flagship universities, and the UW doesn't accept CLEP or many CC classes. Wow. Interesting when you write it all out like that compared to elsewhere...

BTW... Highest SAT scores? How? I'm looking at data that suggests we are below average.

[FairProspects]

BTW... Highest SAT scores? How? I'm looking at data that suggests we are below average.

 

It was from either a NYT or a NPR article in the spring comparing state SAT scores overall. I can't remember if they used averages or what to calculate it and I'm not sure I can find it again but I'll try.

[BlsdMama]

Military academies? I know it's not for everyone but if your kids are willing to serve and have good grades, the academies provide excellent education and a degree in exchange for service.

If you plan on one of the military academy you need to start at about eighth grade, just an FYI. They are harder than any of the Ivies, and especially challenging for homeschool kiddos because you'll need to seek out opportunities to show leadership and athletic ability.

 

That said, DH paid for much of his college with college repayment by going in. I don't know of it still exits with as much reduction in force that they are currently doing? They also paid for his many of his classes to get his MBA and Masters. It was a very good deal, but also something that might be going out with the times. The military isn't the same as it was gotten and twenty years ago. They are reducing too.

 

I think we, as parents, need to closely evaluate needs and wants too. Sending DD to a state school was never the plan. However, once they offered her a full ride we really had to evaluate whether private was worth loans.... especially when this school excels in speech pathology and communication disorders. We evaluate HER needs and wants rather than the ideal and found living at home and attending state school was going to fulfill those needs and wants better.... Sure surprised us!

[regentrude]

BTW... Highest SAT scores? How? I'm looking at data that suggests we are below average.

 

Yes, I wondered about this claim, too. Not according to these stats:

http://blog.prepscholar.com/average-sat-scores-by-state-most-recent

[FairProspects]

Ok, maybe this is less true for years 2014/15. Prior to 2014, we had a pretty strong streak going but it could always depend on how you massage the numbers and number of test takers counted (first in states where 45-50% of eligible students take the test). Not sure how meaningful those qualifications make the stats because the ACT is less popular (although gaining) here.

 

http://www.k12.wa.us/Communications/PressReleases2012/SATScores.aspx

 

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/educationlab/2013/10/25/state-sat-scores-dip-but-still-among-nations-highest/

Edited November 24, 2015 by FairProspects

[Tsuga]

Okay, I have seen those. My impression is that it's been going down as the % of test takers goes up. We used to be middle, now we are higher in terms of % of students testing and our scores have fallen.

 

The top states are very urban though. I bet I could make a linear model that could explain most of this with merely % taking test and % rural. Also, our writing scores suck and one wonders why. I don't agree with the algorithm they use for scoring and wonder if failure to meet that affects the scores. Also, underfunding education and the strikes in spring could not help. :(

[4kidlets4me]

For those of us in WA state,  running start is the best deal around. If your kid can complete the entire associates while in high school even better. My daughter will graduate high school this year with 40 CC credits and we only paid around $500 for everything including books. 

[KungFuPanda]

I cannot get my brain around single digit participation percentages. I had no idea.

[regentrude]

I cannot get my brain around single digit participation percentages. I had no idea.

 

That's an easy one: in many states, the prevailing test is the ACT.

This is fairly typical in the Midwest.

 

At my university, a single digit percentage of admitted student have taken the SAT. Over 90% of our students have taken the ACT.

 

Here are the corresponding ACT stats.

https://www.act.org/newsroom/data/2013/states.html

 

In Louisiana, Kentucky, Illinois and Michigan and others, all students (100%) are taking the ACT. Only very few students would take the SAT on top of that, typically the highest performers, which explains the high average SAT scores of states with extremely small participation rates. Basically only students interested in highly selective colleges take the SAT there.

Edited November 24, 2015 by regentrude

[Matryoshka]

I cannot get my brain around single digit participation percentages. I had no idea.

I think many of those are states where the ACT is the standard test...

 

ETA Regentrude beat me to it... ;)

Edited November 24, 2015 by Matryoshka

[TammyS]

Going with kids being able to pay their own way or contribute to paying their way through college (not that I'm against parent's helping or fully funding it!), if a kid was able to do fully funded dual enrollment in high school and saved most of their money (a  high school student could easily earn $4,800 minus taxes a summer working fast food starting at 15 full time around here, for example), they could then possibly pay for a year of state uni. Maybe not everyone's dream experience, but it just goes to show there are options!  

 

I wish this were as doable as it used to be.  When I was a teenager, if one wanted a job all you had to do was walk into a McDonald's and ask.  Now, teens are finding it hard to get those jobs, because they are being taken by retirees and adults who are out of work (in their profession).

[Tsuga]

For those of us in WA state, running start is the best deal around. If your kid can complete the entire associates while in high school even better. My daughter will graduate high school this year with 40 CC credits and we only paid around $500 for everything including books.

I hope they will do something like that but it rules out IB and some other tracks.

[Sneezyone]

I know one family where the son worked part-time in high school for two years (16-18.) He did not save one dime for his schooling, but spent the money on...whatever. He went to technical school for college and his dad used a home equity loan to pay $700 a month for the two-year degree. The dad said to me, "There's no way for kids to go to school these days without loans."

 

It never even occurred to them that the ds could have been saving a lot of it himself.

 

Most part-time jobs around here pay about $8.25/hr. If a high school student works 20 hrs per week, she'll have $165.00. Multiply by 52 weeks in a year ($8,580) and then divide by 12 months: $715/mo. If she saves $400/mo ($200 out of every two-wk check) she'll have $4800 at the end if 12 months with $3780 left over for other stuff. ( I hope that my math is right.)

 

This is just a possible scenario. This isn't enough for a year at a state or private university, but it's enough for a community college. Getting through the first two years of college debt free is a tremendous help.

 

BTY, if I'm not mistaken, the first $7000 is not taxed.

 

As a general rule, it would be better for the parent to hold onto that money than the student. Student assets are treated differently in financial aid calculations and are used up at a rate of 20% per year vs. parent assets at 5.64% per year. Also, teens do pay payroll taxes. Only some of that comes back after they file each year.

[Shellydon]

Many of my friends are very concerned with their children having "The College Experience."  Meaning, going to classes and having lots of fun, parties, girl/boyfriends, sporting events, social clubs etc.  Most provide fairly expensive vehicles and cover all costs, including spending $$.    That wasn't *my* college experience, I was often short food :)  But, it was many of my friends, and now they want to reproduce that for their children.

[IfIOnly]

As a general rule, it would be better for the parent to hold onto that money than the student. Student assets are treated differently in financial aid calculations and are used up at a rate of 20% per year vs. parent assets at 5.64% per year. Also, teens do pay payroll taxes. Only some of that comes back after they file each year.

 

Oh, good to know. THanks!

[creekland]

Many of my friends are very concerned with their children having "The College Experience."  Meaning, going to classes and having lots of fun, parties, girl/boyfriends, sporting events, social clubs etc.  Most provide fairly expensive vehicles and cover all costs, including spending $$.    That wasn't *my* college experience, I was often short food :)  But, it was many of my friends, and now they want to reproduce that for their children.

 

I can't speak for your friends, but I know hubby and I want all three of ours to have a 4 year college experience.  We just define it a little differently.  It's going to classes both inside and outside their major, learning from great professors and/or researchers, enjoying clubs doing things they like and/or new things they haven't experienced yet, watching shows of all sorts, meeting peers from all over the planet, testing out new things/ideas, learning life lessons, etc.

 

College for both of us was an incredible time with experiences that just aren't matched with full time jobs in everyday life.  The actual education was part of it, but there was so much more it's really difficult to explain to be honest.

 

Our boys are enjoying it as much as we did.

 

I know that's not everyone's "thing."  No one particular thing is right for everyone.  But college parties, etc, isn't "the" college experience in everyone's definition even when we put a high priority on 4 years away from home.  My guys have been able to do so much more at each of their schools.  It's worth it to us.

[creekland]

ps  Mine don't have cars and work to earn the majority of their own spending money.  We have no desire to have them be short on food though.  Fortunately, campus dining is much better than it used to be.

[KungFuPanda]

That's an easy one: in many states, the prevailing test is the ACT.

This is fairly typical in the Midwest.

 

At my university, a single digit percentage of admitted student have taken the SAT. Over 90% of our students have taken the ACT.

 

Here are the corresponding ACT stats.

https://www.act.org/newsroom/data/2013/states.html

 

In Louisiana, Kentucky, Illinois and Michigan and others, all students (100%) are taking the ACT. Only very few students would take the SAT on top of that, typically the highest performers, which explains the high average SAT scores of states with extremely small participation rates. Basically only students interested in highly selective colleges take the SAT there.

That makes more sense. Funny story . . . I took the ACT.

[creekland]

I agree with this.  There is something to be said for being completely immersed in a "living learning environment" for four straight years.  The exposure to new ideas, cultures, and experiences is worth the price, imo.  It isn't about four years of partying.

 

We've even had the audacity to tell ours we don't really care if they end up using their degree or not.  We want them to have one, so pick what they like for their in depth study.

 

Oldest is using his degree.  

 

Middle will only need his to get into med school.  Nonetheless, he loves his experience so much he's opting to get 2 majors and 2 minors and even after that he applied to, plus was accepted for, an extra 5th year studying something totally unrelated to his majors (in his case, Western Influences on Global Success in Africa).  His college offers that 5th year tuition free for those who are accepted.  He'll remain an RA to get his room free.  We're willingly paying his board and any other fees.  His chance for this is worth it to us since he's enjoying it.

 

Youngest has decided he really loves theater and has chosen to make that his major.  Will he use it?  Who knows?  But we're quite pleased he's chosen to study something he loves while he has this time period in life to do so.  There'll be plenty of time to settle down to real life.  He'll still have a degree to check any boxes that require one and no one will be able to take away the experiences he'll have had along the way.

[Jane in NC]

Many of my friends are very concerned with their children having "The College Experience."  Meaning, going to classes and having lots of fun, parties, girl/boyfriends, sporting events, social clubs etc.  Most provide fairly expensive vehicles and cover all costs, including spending $$.    That wasn't *my* college experience, I was often short food :)  But, it was many of my friends, and now they want to reproduce that for their children.

I want to agree with Creekland and Kinsa in their responses to your comment.

 

My son's four year college experience included sharing a dorm room with a student from Vietnam his first year, with students who majored or minored in Classics in a suite after that.  By having upperclassmen sharing their living space, the students could not only encourage each other, they also tutored students in beginning classes and orchestrated community service projects. 

 

I was a serious student in both undergrad and graduate school.  Sure, I had fun.  But the college experience was for me an academic one. I find it weird that some people assume "college" means parties and sporting events. 

 

Just the other day I asked a high school student whom I know if she was going to become an engineer--not because of her academic interest but because of her collaborative nature.  The best among my former engineering students formed study groups, usually with a student who was stronger in math, another stronger in physics, another in chemistry.  They pulled each other along.  Sure, they had fun.  But most engineering students I know spent their time studying--not drinking or socializing outside of the study group.

 

I am sorry that you were short food. I am not sure that my college budget allowed for the most nutritious diet.  Neither was a situation that I wanted my son to experience.

[tm919]

Many of my friends are very concerned with their children having "The College Experience."  Meaning, going to classes and having lots of fun, parties, girl/boyfriends, sporting events, social clubs etc.  Most provide fairly expensive vehicles and cover all costs, including spending $$.    That wasn't *my* college experience, I was often short food :)  But, it was many of my friends, and now they want to reproduce that for their children.

I haven't really thought about the college experience much, but I don't want my children's choices in later education (and then life) to be as determined by money as mine and my  husband's were. I chose both schools (undergrad and grad) because they offered me what would let me attend. My husband and I chose our house coming out from under the end of his student loans. If we hadn't felt we should pay off those loans before buying the house, we would have had more children (probably 1 more). As it was, by the time we were financially "on our feet," I was considered "high risk" due to my age... and that was when college costs were much lower.

 

I'm not saying I want them to be able to choose anything and pay for nothing, but I would like for things to be not totally driven by cost.

Edited November 25, 2015 by tm919

[Tsuga]

I agree with this. There is something to be said for being completely immersed in a "living learning environment" for four straight years. The exposure to new ideas, cultures, and experiences is worth the price, imo. It isn't about four years of partying.

Well, you can do that while working and even in high school if you live in an urban area.

 

I never have been able to get tippy top grades in the hardest major as I was working. It sure would be nice to see one generation really have a great education.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Tsuga

[regentrude]

I agree with this.  There is something to be said for being completely immersed in a "living learning environment" for four straight years.  The exposure to new ideas, cultures, and experiences is worth the price, imo.  It isn't about four years of partying.

 

This, precisely.

For DD, the college experience is first and foremost an academic one: being in a community of learners who are all highly motivated and driven, and taught by professors who are experts in their fields. College experience involves for the first time encountering academic peers. College experience means a faculty mentor with whom she developed a close relationship already during her first year. It means a steady study group since the first week and late nights in the library. It means living in a house with people from different backgrounds. It means being involved in the physics women society and in the house governing body, singing in choir, editing for the school newspaper, volunteering with an organization that offers tutoring to neighborhood high school students.

 

Parties? Minimal. A mid-afternoon birthday party with Chinese takeout for a friend a few weeks ago. A House Halloween party that lasted from 6 to 8pm. Friday nights they have the opportunity to watch a movie in the dorm, and every few months on a Saturday, they take the bus into the city and go to the Art museum and have dinner. Wild.

 

I know there are party schools - but there are also schools where people are serious.

 

ETA: And I am fully aware that we are fortunate to be able to afford this. We basically send my income to the school.

Edited November 25, 2015 by regentrude

[Tsuga]

This is true. It's been a long time since I went to school, but I went on Pell grants and student loans, and while working. It was far from easy.

 

I was not poor growing up, far from it, but was booted from the nest the moment I graduated HS. Family culture. I worked for 4 years, then figured out on my own how to go to school. And had a friend who worked in financial aid who told me how to declare independence so that I could qualify for Pell. He walked me through it and helped me out, otherwise I'd have had to wait to turn - what? - 26, I think.

 

I don't wish that on my kids.

 

We save, but it's not going to be enough. [sigh] Watching this thread for tips.

You cannot get independence like that anymore, even in the 90s it was nearly impossible. You have to be a ward of the court or prove history of abuse. Your parents can't even disown you. I looked into it.

 

Either that was much earlier or your friend did you a bigger favor than you can ever repay.

 

Eta... What year was this? Did he put your paperwork in? This particular issue is huge and if parents could kick out their kids or even abuse them so the kid could get Pell, do you know how many working class families would sock their kids in the face and not see them for 4 years if it meant they wouldn't have to sell their home? A lot. Our financial aid people hear from them every day. "But I'm 23 and my dad kicked me out!!!! He won't even call! How can I file his taxes if he won't talk to me!" They are so desperate.

 

I wonder how you got through.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Tsuga

[Corraleno]

Also whenever having these conversations I do feel like... nobody talks about their own college journey. How did you guys pay for college? 

 

I had a full tuition scholarship (National Merit Finalist) to an out of state LAC (one of the "Colleges that Change Lives"). My GPA wasn't actually that great (As in courses I liked, significantly lower grades in courses I disliked), but the things I had going for me were: very high test scores, a good essay, a very poor family, 1st generation to attend college, and geographic diversity. Room & board were covered by Pell grants, college grants, work study, and a small amount in federal loans. The scholarship and financial aid also covered two semesters abroad without additional expenses. I didn't get a dime from my (estranged) parents, and I had no car and virtually no spending money; I earned a little cash by typing papers. 

 

Grad school was totally paid for with fellowships and TAships, both of which included tuition waivers. I did end up with a small amount of loans from undergrad, but all interest and payments were deferred until I was working full time, and then it only took me a few years to pay them off.

 

DS has a college fund that was set up for him by my exMIL when he was a baby, which should cover a decent percentage of undergrad costs, plus he may qualify for merit aid at schools that offer it. He is primarily interested in LACs for undergrad, followed by grad school at a larger university. DD doesn't have the same financial resources available, nor is she likely to qualify for merit aid, so I plan for her to use the maximum in free DE benefits and then transfer to a state uni. 

Edited November 25, 2015 by Corraleno

[unsinkable]

You cannot get independence like that anymore, even in the 90s it was nearly impossible. You have to be a ward of the court or prove history of abuse. Your parents can't even disown you. I looked into it.

 

Either that was much earlier or your friend did you a bigger favor than you can ever repay.

 

Eta... What year was this? Did he put your paperwork in? This particular issue is huge and if parents could kick out their kids or even abuse them so the kid could get Pell, do you know how many working class families would sock their kids in the face and not see them for 4 years if it meant they wouldn't have to sell their home? A lot. Our financial aid people hear from them every day. "But I'm 23 and my dad kicked me out!!!! He won't even call! How can I file his taxes if he won't talk to me!" They are so desperate.

 

I wonder how you got through.

What??? No one I know, working class or otherwise, would abuse or punch their kids and not see them for four years for some kind of chance at college aid.

 

This hurts my head.

 

This is bizarre. Just out there crazy.

[SKL]

I didn't do the "full college experience" until grad school.  I lived with my parents through undergrad.  My undergrad "college life" wasn't completely lame, though.  I had social time with other "non-traditional" students.  I also had several jobs, started my own business, volunteered with kids, and was largely in charge of my family's housekeeping and younger sibs' day-to-day care.  I like to think there was some value in that.

 

Then in grad school I did the dorm experience initially, but the nice thing about that was that it wasn't required, and I could move out into something much cheaper (with a roommate(s) of my choice) off campus.  I was able to get more serious jobs and to be a grad assistant.  I got the worthwhile university social life without some of the costs and drawbacks.  Plus, I was old enough to not make some of the dumb mistakes I might have made in college (though I was still pretty dumb about some things!).  No, I never did the frat thing, but I wouldn't have done that anyway.

 

This worked well for me since I was 16 when I started college.  It was also the only choice I had, since I couldn't afford room & board on campus in undergrad.

 

We were rural, and I was just really thankful we had a couple of regional campuses in driving distance.

[Sneezyone]

You cannot get independence like that anymore, even in the 90s it was nearly impossible. You have to be a ward of the court or prove history of abuse. Your parents can't even disown you. I looked into it.

 

Either that was much earlier or your friend did you a bigger favor than you can ever repay.

 

Eta... What year was this? Did he put your paperwork in? This particular issue is huge and if parents could kick out their kids or even abuse them so the kid could get Pell, do you know how many working class families would sock their kids in the face and not see them for 4 years if it meant they wouldn't have to sell their home? A lot. Our financial aid people hear from them every day. "But I'm 23 and my dad kicked me out!!!! He won't even call! How can I file his taxes if he won't talk to me!" They are so desperate.

 

I wonder how you got through.

 

In answer to this question, the school took pity on me. My custodial parent had been unemployed for the two years straddling my HS graduation and college enrollment. By the time she was gainfully employed again, I was in the middle of my junior year. My brother's death and her subsequent relationship left us estranged. I did not return back to her home after that, claimed my father as my custodial parent (because as much as he could be, he was), and the school took pity on me and let me make that change. That was 1994-5. My dad was only a half a step less broke than I was b/c it took 20 years for his VA disability claim to be fully adjudicated (which now allows him to live a comfortable, middle-class life). Essentially, they increased my grant a bit and my University Direct Student Loan to fill in the gap. Even as a freshman, my mom's credit was so bad that she wasn't eligible for a parent PLUS loan. I had already been classified as a financially independent student for all intents and purposes.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Sneezyone

[Tsuga]

What??? No one I know, working class or otherwise, would abuse or punch their kids and not see them for four years for some kind of chance at college aid.

 

This hurts my head.

 

This is bizarre. Just out there crazy.

 

Really, you wouldn't take a punch in the face right now for $20,000? I sure as heck would. Debt free in a day, just lose one tooth. I'd take it right now. I'll even take a punch in the face for $10,000. One punch per $10k. 

 

Of course the parents wouldn't offer it! I mean the kids would ask. Imagine, if all you had to do was get kicked out and voila, half of college could be paid for in Pell grants.

 

My point is just to say, desperation is high and you normally would not get anywhere even if you were kicked out.

 

ETA: The reason I believe this is because I myself was in a situation of not having college paid for and when I learned to my shock I would not be independent until I was 26 (eternity!) I went to ask how to become independence. That was when they explained it to me. And I know she saw the look on my face when she said... "And there has to be a pattern of abuse and abandonment stretching back over a period of time." Eyebrows raised, LOL! No, I was not the only person thinking, "80 hour weeks for a month or a punch in the face... HM."

Edited November 25, 2015 by Tsuga

[Spryte]

You cannot get independence like that anymore, even in the 90s it was nearly impossible. You have to be a ward of the court or prove history of abuse. Your parents can't even disown you. I looked into it.

 

Either that was much earlier or your friend did you a bigger favor than you can ever repay.

 

Eta... What year was this? Did he put your paperwork in? This particular issue is huge and if parents could kick out their kids or even abuse them so the kid could get Pell, do you know how many working class families would sock their kids in the face and not see them for 4 years if it meant they wouldn't have to sell their home? A lot. Our financial aid people hear from them every day. "But I'm 23 and my dad kicked me out!!!! He won't even call! How can I file his taxes if he won't talk to me!" They are so desperate.

 

I wonder how you got through.

It was the mid 90s. I think it was either '95 or '96. I had to beg, plead and grovel to get my parents to give me their tax returns showing that they did not claim me on their taxes, and had not since I turned 18. It's been a long time, but what I recall is writing a letter detailing the situation and absolutely having to supply those tax returns. I was fortunate that my parents agreed to do so. I had fully supported myself for those four years before school, as well, though, and that may have made a difference. I don't know. It was not a fun time in my life, it was quite a struggle.

 

ETA: I know it's not an option anymore.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Spryte