Bullying/threats

[DawnM]

Deleting the exact details.  

 

It is being handled.  The school is being notified and the parents have called us and said he admitted to everything and we worked out a  plan for this to never happen again to my son or any other kid.

 

I don't know what the school will do, but we will see.

 

In lots of ways I feel sorry for the kid, but in other ways I am thinking, "You touched my kid!"

[Rosie_0801]

As you know, letting this kid thump yours won't cure his home life. 

 

:grouphug:

[bettyandbob]

Yes, telling the mom was right.

 

I'd seriously consider taking ds out of carpool and going to school and requesting seating changes in the three classes.

 

Can you get your ds to go to a school counselor. The threats about the teacher are disturbing. The boy could be angry, but not at your ds. However, your ds is nice and not fighting back or doing anything, so the boy targets his anger at your ds. Maybe the teacher is a target merely because she's an authority figure, just not the authority the boy would like to target. I'm just speculating, but I think since the boy is making verbal statements about hurting other people besides your ds, someone at the school needs to be told. Personally, I'd think really hard about having my own child in a building with another child who made such statements. I don't know the full context here,but it causes concern.

[Lisbeth]

The moment killing the teacher was mentioned, I would tell someone in authority at the school. I would want it to be very clear to everyone that my son was NOT interested in threats and was disturbed by the statement.

[DawnM]

I am not sure what to do about carpool.  I had told my son that if we didn't find a carpool, he couldn't attend this school because of the distance.  I would be driving 3 hours per day just to get him back and forth to school.  

 

I feel THAT kid should leave carpool.  

 

 

[PrincessMommy]

I think you did the right thing by talking with the parent first.  I'd hold off changing the carpool to see if things are corrected.

 

however this......

The moment killing the teacher was mentioned, I would tell someone in authority at the school. I would want it to be very clear to everyone that my son was NOT interested in threats and was disturbed by the statement.

 

This is very serious threat.   This one needs to go to the school.
 

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:grouphug: I would not want your kid anywhere near that kid including the carpool. The other kid's statements are disturbing and the school should be notified. if this does not abate, I would pull your son from the school. My kid is dealing with mild bullying in which some kid's are laughing at him almost daily and we may end up pulling as a result. We are trying to get the school to put a stop to it and help our son ignore it.

[DawnM]

:grouphug: I would not want your kid anywhere near that kid including the carpool. The other kid's statements are disturbing and the school should be notified. if this does not abate, I would pull your son from the school. My kid is dealing with mild bullying in which some kid's are laughing at him almost daily and we may end up pulling as a result. We are trying to get the school to put a stop to it and help our son ignore it.

 

 

We have told him he is welcome to leave the school and we will fully support him.  There are a variety of public school options and private school options.

 

The 3 hour commute per day is what is making me cringe.  I have one child starting community college in January (20 miles in the heart of the city from our house), so between the 2 of them commuting to school, scouts, church activities, and sports, I could potentially be in the car 4-5 hours per day.  I am just not sure I can do it.  

 

We are moving in the Spring in to town (or summer, whenever the house sells) so that will alleviate some of the burden.  We will also be moving to the bus line so CC kid can use the bus.  Right now the nearest bus stop is 10 miles from our house.  I can drive him to the bus stop, or drive him in to the CC, but he can't just walk out the door and take the bus.

 

I had tears this morning thinking of all of this.  

[Word Nerd]

The kid is not bullying, he is abused and reaching out for help.

Yes, he is bullying. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

I think it's good you talked to the mom, but I would still tell the principal. Joking about killing the teacher certainly warrants it, as do the hitting and the claims that he's hit at home. If your DS gets angry and defends himself by hitting back or pushing the boy away, which would be understandable as his frustration builds up, he could get in trouble at school himself. The school needs to be aware of the situation and help stop it from continuing.

[zoobie]

The teacher threats need to go to the administration. You need to make it clear that DS is NOT saying these things. Repeated assaults need to go to the administration. I would not have talked to the mother first because of the domestic abuse allegations. I would have taken that with the other information directly to admin.

 

I agree that the kid is probably reaching out for help AND bullying.

 

Is carpool organized or facilitated by the school? Ask admin for assistance.

[PrincessMommy]

We have told him he is welcome to leave the school and we will fully support him.  There are a variety of public school options and private school options.

 

The 3 hour commute per day is what is making me cringe.  I have one child starting community college in January (20 miles in the heart of the city from our house), so between the 2 of them commuting to school, scouts, church activities, and sports, I could potentially be in the car 4-5 hours per day.  I am just not sure I can do it.  

 

We are moving in the Spring in to town (or summer, whenever the house sells) so that will alleviate some of the burden.  We will also be moving to the bus line so CC kid can use the bus.  Right now the nearest bus stop is 10 miles from our house.  I can drive him to the bus stop, or drive him in to the CC, but he can't just walk out the door and take the bus.

 

I had tears this morning thinking of all of this.  

 

:grouphug:   The long commute is temporary.  If you have to do the worst case scenario just remind yourself that it will end when you move.   I hope this situation resolves in a way that is best for you and your son.  

 

Is it possible to get your son to document some of this - or have a friend document it? 

[Mimm]

The moment killing the teacher was mentioned, I would tell someone in authority at the school. I would want it to be very clear to everyone that my son was NOT interested in threats and was disturbed by the statement.

:iagree: :iagree:

 

I know this would be heartbreaking to the mother but in today's climate, you DO NOT EVER threaten things like this. You don't even joke about it. A kid this age knows this.

[MedicMom]

Are you sure this kid is neurotypical?

[MinivanMom]

I feel very concerned about not reporting to the principal. This boy isn't threatening to kill the teacher himself, but asking your son to kill the teacher.

 

What happens if another child overhears this and reports it to the school? It could easily sound as if your son and the other boy are plotting together. And what's to stop the other boy from implicating your son as a part of the threats? How will the school sort out who is telling the truth when your son never reported the bullying or the threats previously? Even if they believe your son's account, could your son still be held as an accomplice for failing to report threats of violence?

 

I would strongly urge you to make a report to the school immediately. This is more than a bullying situation. This other boy could potentially face criminal charges, and you don't want your son swept up in that. I would want it on record immediately that you reported both the bullying and the threats.

[gardenmom5]

this kid is HITTING your son.  that is battery.  report him to the police, and press charges.  the school won't do anything except tell both kids to get along.

I would also enroll him in a martial art.  as well as developing self-defense skills, it develops the skills to effectiely deal with a bully.

 

eta: it is kinder to report him to the police now - than allow him to escalate to more violence down the road.

[Alexigail]

I can't understand why you don't want to to go the principal.  Talk to someone who is in a position of authority, and mention that this child is being abused and your child is being bullied.  This is serious and if anything happens at the school, people may think your son was involved.  It is terrible that you can't protect this kid from what's happening at home, but you can protect your kid.  No school experience is worth what he's enduring every day.  

[Word Nerd]

I don't think the fact that the boy is telling the OP's son to harm a teacher means he isn't making veiled threats himself. We also don't know for certain whether he is being abused. I would tell administration what he told DS about his dad, but I would not claim he is being abused, as that's not something the OP knows. That's for the authorities to determine, along with whether he is making a credible threat to a teacher.

[mamiof5]

What a tough situation! No idea what I would do. My heart goes out to him if he's being abused at home, but it's so hard to make that call. And his comments about killing anyone are just not OK. I'd probably bring it up to the school. So sorry your son is having to deal with this, but so glad he told you!! A young boy in the area killed himself this week, it sounds like bullying had something to do with it. So, so glad your son brought it up to you!! I would encourage him to always keep doing it. It's so important for kids to have open communication with their parents.

[38carrots]

The kid is not bullying, he is abused and reaching out for help. Yours needs to tell him to knock it off, and walk him over to the counselor or whatever individual at this school has the counseling duty. If he cant do that, he should talk to a teacher or you should make the phone call. I had to do the phone call as the young man was too uncomfortable to tell the counselor his story. It was a 20 min conversation as the counselor didnt know me, but my response to the invitation to confer with the Principal convinced him that he needed to take action. The lad that needed counseling got it, the mom took the documented-by-mandated-reporter report to the judge as they had already initiated divorce proceedings and the judge made a decision that considered the health of the teen.

As far as carpool...there should be a behavior contract with consequences agreed to by all parties, for the safety of driver and passengers. If not, get one, if yes, enforce. People here use the same contract as the school bus co....hitting is a warning first time, removal until conferring with parents and agreeing to rules for second time, removal for rest of year for third time.

 

Yes, he IS bullying. It is like saying the terrorists aren't killing people, they are just being brain washed and don't know any better.

[38carrots]

 

If the bullying dosn't stop this "kid" (who is actually an older teen, soon to be an adult, and you are minimizing his responsibility by calling him a kid) should leave the carpool.

 

You did the right thing by talking to his mother first. You shouldn't hesitate to take it to the principal, and then to the police if the school won't deal and the bully keeps on bullying. If they suspent a children for shooting pretend guns, they should follow through and create real consequences for this young man who is physically hurting his classmate and is making threats about killing a teacher.

 

I'd have very low patience for this and I'd act lightning fast. What if your son's saint like patience breaks for an instant and he (rightly, imo) pushes that bully back? In today's crazy society it will be your son who will be blamed and suspended. By not acting to protect your son you are not saving the "kid." You are actually making the situationg worse for that individual.

 

Hugs. This is so tough.

[38carrots]

Are you sure this kid is neurotypical?

 

Even if he isn't, this has to be stopped ASAP, for his own good. That's not an excuse to continue bullying. And he should be getting help anyway, neurotypical or not.

[38carrots]

this kid is HITTING your son.  that is battery.  report him to the police, and press charges.  the school won't do anything except tell both kids to get along.

I would also enroll him in a martial art.  as well as developing self-defense skills, it develops the skills to effectiely deal with a bully.

 

eta: it is kinder to report him to the police now - than allow him to escalate to more violence down the road.

 

This. 100%.

[Mergath]

The instant your son told you this kid brought up killing a teacher, you should have contacted the school. The parents obviously know he's messed up and they aren't doing much about it. 

[Anne in CA]

I absolutely believe you did the right thing. The right thing is to let the kid know that even though his dad hits him with no consequences, there are consequences for hitting someone outside your family. Before talking to the principal if this escalates make sure that the school does not have one of those stupid Zero Tolence policies that means you son will be suspended for getting hit. Don't think it won't happen to you, it happens all the time. Girls who get raped on school campuses get suspended for "participating", so you really need to make sure your son won't have a suspension on his transcript.  My niece got hit by a random kid at school and she got suspended. The next time it happended she pounded the kid half to death to let people know that she wasn't a target, because she was already getting suspended anyway because a teacher saw it happen. It really changed my niece in a not good way.

 

There are just some tough moments parenting a teen when you go to bed crying. I have been though it twice and my third time was night before last. This time the problem facing my dd is not as serious as the problems my older two had that cuased me so much grief, and I do believe she will learn from the experience, but I just feel sick to my stomach to think about it too long.

[Liz CA]

Do you think your son would be able to move toward this boy when the teasing and/or hitting occurs - as into the other kid's space and clearly state that he had better not be hit again or else? Leave the "or else" purposely vague.

This could surprise the other kid to the point of taking a step back literally and figuratively. It is a boundary that has been set and crossing it now entails some consequences. This may only work if your son is physically matched to the other kid, is able to pull it off and you need to brainstorm what the consequence will be if he crosses the line again. Something has to happen if he does it or the whole maneuver will be useless.

 

Years ago, my ds did this and it turned everything around.

I have to say here that I was never one of those mothers that forbid or absolutely discouraged a fight. I think for some people it's the only thing they understand at that given point in time. I didn't teach that aggression is a way of solving things but I always said that he needed to defend himself if necessary. If this is against your grain, disregard everything I wrote.

[Mergath]

Do you think your son would be able to move toward this boy when the teasing and/or hitting occurs - as into the other kid's space and clearly state that he had better not be hit again or else? Leave the "or else" purposely vague.

This could surprise the other kid to the point of taking a step back literally and figuratively. It is a boundary that has been set and crossing it now entails some consequences. This may only work if your son is physically matched to the other kid, is able to pull it off and you need to brainstorm what the consequence will be if he crosses the line again. Something has to happen if he does it or the whole maneuver will be useless.

 

Years ago, my ds did this and it turned everything around.

I have to say here that I was never one of those mothers that forbid or absolutely discouraged a fight. I think for some people it's the only thing they understand at that given point in time. I didn't teach that aggression is a way of solving things but I always said that he needed to defend himself if necessary. If this is against your grain, disregard everything I wrote.

 

It sounds like there's a good chance this kid is acting this way because he's being abused at home. He needs the adults in his life to get him help, not for more people to act vaguely threatening. Smh. 

[Liz CA]

It sounds like there's a good chance this kid is acting this way because he's being abused at home. He needs the adults in his life to get him help, not for more people to act vaguely threatening. Smh. 

 

I agree that this is the next step but to protect Dawn's son in the immediate future so he is not terrorized every day he is in school, he needs to find a position with which he is comfortable and which affords him some measure of defense.

One approach does not preclude the other IMHO. Seems like OP has already taken steps to alert the adults in his life.

 

[Pen]

edit, sorry I messed up and quoted.  My reply below is in response to your original post. I have not read the whole thread. Pen

 

 

I think it should be reported ASAP, including that the father hits the boy in the head, to the principal (and or school psychologist if there is one), the police, and child services.

 

There isn't just bullying going on.  From what you report there appears to be possible child abuse and incitement to violence, which in some places are crimes.  The boy sounds like he needs help, but I doubt his family will be able to give it. If he doesn't get it, things could become tragic.

 

It sounds like a cry for help from the boy, and needs intervention.

[IfIOnly]

I think it should be reported ASAP, including that the father hits the boy in the head, to the principal (and or school psychologist if there is one), the police, and child services.

 

There isn't just bullying going on.  From what you report there appears to be possible child abuse and incitement to violence, which in some places are crimes.  The boy sounds like he needs help, but I doubt his family will be able to give it. If he doesn't get it, things could become tragic.

 

It sounds like a cry for help from the boy, and needs intervention.

 

The OP asked not to be quoted. 

[Word Nerd]

It sounds like there's a good chance this kid is acting this way because he's being abused at home. He needs the adults in his life to get him help, not for more people to act vaguely threatening. Smh.

So you think the OP's son shouldn't even move toward the other kid to defend himself? SMH indeed.

[Pen]

The OP asked not to be quoted. 

Ooops!!!  Thank you I fixed it!!!

[DawnM]

Hey guys.  I am reading all of the responses.  We have a busy day here today and plan to have more conversations about this when we can, probably tomorrow.

 

This may become a legal issue so I may need to stop talking about it, but it is very stressful.

[Pen]

 

 

This is very serious threat.   This one needs to go to the school.

 

 

 

I agree. You may think that it has stopped because it stops with your own son, but it may be continued with someone else, and the someone else may not have the same resistance your son does.

 

Or perhaps the someone else would respond in a way that would lead the boy to attack the teacher himself instead of seeking a proxy.

[DawnM]

Do you think your son would be able to move toward this boy when the teasing and/or hitting occurs - as into the other kid's space and clearly state that he had better not be hit again or else? Leave the "or else" purposely vague.

This could surprise the other kid to the point of taking a step back literally and figuratively. It is a boundary that has been set and crossing it now entails some consequences. This may only work if your son is physically matched to the other kid, is able to pull it off and you need to brainstorm what the consequence will be if he crosses the line again. Something has to happen if he does it or the whole maneuver will be useless.

 

Years ago, my ds did this and it turned everything around.

I have to say here that I was never one of those mothers that forbid or absolutely discouraged a fight. I think for some people it's the only thing they understand at that given point in time. I didn't teach that aggression is a way of solving things but I always said that he needed to defend himself if necessary. If this is against your grain, disregard everything I wrote.

 

 

This particular child is shy and quiet.  He HAS taken martial arts.  He is still quiet and shy and tends to prefer to walk away or tell an adult.  

 

We talked to him a bit last night about being more aggressive, which for him would be telling the kid firmly to stop or else.  We also told him that in no way should he take anything physical from the kid.  

 

My son also shared that he feels sorry for the kid because he seems to have no friends.  Um, that's nice, and I know you have a tender heart, but you don't have to put up with any of this.

[DawnM]

Are you sure this kid is neurotypical?

 

 

No, I am not sure.  I even asked the mom that same question.  She said he hasn't been diagnosed with anything other than ADHD but she wonders if he has sensory issues.  I wonder too.

[MomatHWTK]

The language regarding acting on an idea is very troublesome and should be brought to the attention of authorities.  Think of the potential outcomes and ask yourself if you want to be partially responsible for that outcome by failing to report. :grouphug:   The child in question needs help now before he continues in whatever negative cycle is taking place at home.   

[Guest]

BT,DT but I didn't do all the things I should have done.  Didn't help that my son was a clam about it for a long time.

 

1.  Tell the school what is going on.

2.  If you need to end the carpool relationship, do the drive to the 10mile bus stop.  That's do-able.  

3.  Keep contemporaneous notes of what you son tells you.  Write down what you know as of now.

4.  Go to your local police, not as an emergency, but for information, explain the situation (using your notes) and ask them what you should do.  Write it down.  They see this sort of thing all the time and we generally see only one or two instances.  If you feel that you can/should (I'm trying not to be bossy here), you can send the principal of the school and the other parent the information you get from the police.  I had to do this once and it was super helpful and nipped the problem in the bud.  (It was actually past the "bud" stage at that point, but you get my drift.)

 

The long-term effects of bullying are not to be sneezed at.  

[DawnM]

BT,DT but I didn't do all the things I should have done.  Didn't help that my son was a clam about it for a long time.

 

1.  Tell the school what is going on.

2.  If you need to, do the drive to the 10mile bus stop.

3.  Keep contemporaneous notes of what you son tells you.  Write down what you know as of now.

 

The long-term effects of bullying are not to be sneezed at.  

 

 

School is 19 miles, no bus.

 

The bus is for my community college son, completely different.  The point was just to show how much I would be driving.

 

The 19 miles is somewhat heavy traffic each way, twice a day, is what I would be driving.

 

Thanks.  I will be keeping details for sure.

[Guest]

School is 19 miles, no bus.

 

The bus is for my community college son, completely different.  The point was just to show how much I would be driving.

 

The 19 miles is somewhat heavy traffic each way, twice a day, is what I would be driving.

 

Thanks.  I will be keeping details for sure.

 

Oh.  I'm sorry.  I misread your post.  I thought I read that there was a 10mile bus stop.  :0(  

[Pen]

Possibly your son could use the friendship issue as leverage.  Saying stop or else suggesting physical retaliation that he is unlikely to deliver on and might get in trouble for if he did, is not likely to work well. Saying I would like to be your friend, or something to that effect, but I need you to treat me in ___ way in order for that to work, could possibly have an effect. I wonder if the book Just Listen could be helpful for your son?

 

 

 

 

This does not replace the idea that I think the situation and threats and statement about being hit in head by the father should be reported to authorities, now, not just if it doesn't stop for your son.

 

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

The instant your son told you this kid brought up killing a teacher, you should have contacted the school. The parents obviously know he's messed up and they aren't doing much about it.

 

This.

 

 

You need to contact the school.

 

I'm sorry your son is dealing with this.

[DawnM]

What does SMH mean?

[Mergath]

So you think the OP's son shouldn't even move toward the other kid to defend himself? SMH indeed.

With an abused child who has discussed murdering teachers, the only way for the op to keep her kid safe is to keep him away from this other kid. Piling more aggression on top of everything else is only going to make the situation worse.

[zoobie]

What does SMH mean?

Shaking My Head

[DawnM]

Shaking My Head

 

 

Thanks.

[Liz CA]

With an abused child who has discussed murdering teachers, the only way for the op to keep her kid safe is to keep him away from this other kid. Piling more aggression on top of everything else is only going to make the situation worse.

 

See this is where we differ. I do not see establishing a boundary as an act of aggression.

 

[Word Nerd]

See this is where we differ. I do not see establishing a boundary as an act of aggression.

 

I agree. He wants to keep his distance from the other student. The issue is that their common schedules make that difficult. It's reasonable for him to set a firm boundary; it isn't aggression to make it clear he will not tolerate any more hitting.

[38carrots]

Possibly your son could use the friendship issue as leverage.  Saying stop or else suggesting physical retaliation that he is unlikely to deliver on and might get in trouble for if he did, is not likely to work well. Saying I would like to be your friend, or something to that effect, but I need you to treat me in ___ way in order for that to work, could possibly have an effect. I wonder if the book Just Listen could be helpful for your son?

 

 

 

 

This does not replace the idea that I think the situation and threats and statement about being hit in head by the father should be reported to authorities, now, not just if it doesn't stop for your son.

 

Saying anything remotely like "I would like to be your friend" is simply wrong in this situation. It is not the OP's son's duty to help the bully deal with his issues at the moment. He needs to keep himself safe and estabish clear boundaries.

[gardenmom5]

No, I am not sure. I even asked the mom that same question. She said he hasn't been diagnosed with anything other than ADHD but she wonders if he has sensory issues. I wonder too.

Whether he's NT or not is irrelevant. He's hitting, bullying, and inciting to violence. That must stop. period.

[MedicMom]

Even if he isn't, this has to be stopped ASAP, for his own good. That's not an excuse to continue bullying. And he should be getting help anyway, neurotypical or not.

Yes, but my suggestions on handling it would be different based on NT or not. It also sounds like mom has dealt with this issue in the past. I definitely think the school and parents should be alerted that he has possibly been thinking about violence. But I could also see a non-NT child think it was truly just a funny joke or a misguided attempt to have a conversation, and have no idea the ramifications. In that case, hopefully the school would be able to handle it as an education(working on social context and awareness) vs criminal issue.