#IStandWithAhmed

[Halftime Hope]

Those murders happened within an Iranian family. Ahmed and his family are from Sudan. Other than both being Muslim and living in a suburb of Houston, there are no similarities to the situations. How many Christians in your city have killed a child? Would you use that as an example of psychosis pervading the Christian religious community of the entire town to assign motive to a child in a school incident? It's preposterous to make that kind of connection.

 

Neither the "Iranian" father who murdered his daughters (I thought he was from Egypt; he had an Egyptian passport.) nor Ahmed's family live in a Houston suburb.         ??

 

As to similarities, if you go back to read my post, I never said there were similarities between the families -- afaik, there are none of any consequence. 

 

Nor do I know what branch of Islam Ahmed's family affiliates with, except that news reports labeled his father as Sufi some years ago, and I have no idea whether the local mosques in Irving or the tribunal, which has little connection to Irving other than causing a stir there when the judges held press conferences at the local mosque, are Sufi.  That's why I said in my first post, "I don't know if this family identifies with the same group of Islamic people behind the court." 

 

I was not equating Ahmed's actions with the court nor with the murders -- read my post, OK?  I was stating that his actions were imprudent, in a normal-for-a-14-year-old kind of way-- in the first place, but moreso in the history and context of his community.   

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Those murders happened within an Iranian family. Ahmed and his family are from Sudan. Other than both being Muslim and living in a suburb of Houston, there are no similarities to the situations. How many Christians in your city have killed a child? Would you use that as an example of psychosis pervading the Christian religious community of the entire town to assign motive to a child in a school incident? It's preposterous to make that kind of connection.

But...Muslim!

 

Sadly we are in a nation where referring to the president as a "Muslim!!!" is supposed to be a slur. We also have people standing up and asking during nation debates "What are we gonna do about these Muslims???" and for some reason the response isn't "Sit down and shut up you slack-jawed racist."

 

Strangely enough, those I know who seemed most concerned about "sharia law" also seem most likely to support enforcing their religious beliefs on the rest of society.

[Guest]

I couldn't read this article without subscribing, but the subtitle rubbed me the wrong way. "Islamaphobia" is not a myth. I'm a white Christian with a very American-sounding name, and I've still been hassled at the airport because of my head covering. They told me, point blank, that I could be hiding something under my skirt. They patted down my *Chihuahua*. (I'm glad I didn't have to give a "broader explanation" of my dog's purpose.) :D

 

I'm not complaining. I have it easy. I just think it's important to recognize that profiling and discrimination are in fact happening, and it's not right.

You really need to read the article before judging then. He isn't saying it's not a real thing, he is pointing out the evidence in this and similar cases is that zero tolerance policies are the primary culprit, not everyone around the kid being racist. And this argument is well supported.

 

I can email Taranto and see if he'll permit me snipping the top column for everyone to read. The paywall was a recent thing and most of the column would still remain behind it, just not the pertinent bits.

[HomeAgain]

Dallas.  Irving is a large suburb of Dallas.  Houston is about 3 1/2-4 hours away.

 

And interestingly, in the Dallas area near Irving is a street called White Settlement Road.  Always makes us scratch our heads a bit when we go.

[Haiku]

 

In the context of the family's community, it was a really, really, stupid thing to do.  

 

*snip*

 

a little more prudence would have helped, unless he *wanted* the attention. 

 

This is one of the most anti-American statements I have ever had the misfortune to read.

[Ravin]

The letter says parents should remind students not to bring prohibited items to school. So...clocks, then?

Teacher: Why are you late to school, Muhammed?

 

M: I lost track of time.

 

T: why don't you wear or carry a watch?

 

M: I can't be sure you won't think it's a hoax bomb.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

 

I guess I'm just cut out of a different bit of cloth than some of you all seem to be.  If something I do provokes a scene, I consider it my responsibility.  If my kid provokes a scene, I'm going to have a talk with him to find out the facts, and then I'm going to help him see how others perceived what he did.  And then we'll talk about whether it is right or not, and in general, we'll talk about changes so that we don't repeat the same result. 

 

And had he been my kid, we'd have already had a hundred talks about listening to the voice of caution in your head, cuz that's been a mantra for us since I was sooo slow to learn it.  Sigh.  (The inner dialog: "Self, something tells me this is going to look suspicious.  Maybe I'll ask my teacher, or I'll find out if we can do in-class projects or a science fair project?") 

 

You cannot be serious.

 

Please, please consider the history of the 20th century, and then identify how various oppressed and persecuted peoples across the globe brought their own destruction upon their heads due to provoking a scene.

 

It happened here, too, not just to Jews, homosexuals, and sympathetic persons of other faiths in Europe; not just to refugees fleeing from war-torn, communist SE Asia; but here.

 

Japanese Americans were interned at Manzanar and other camps. Some of my own German American relatives relocated to a camp, while other of their sons fought in WW2 as American soldiers...

 

...what, pray tell, did any of these people do to provoke a scene with their fascist overlords? Other than being the race, color, or nationality that they were?

 

"Head down and keep walking" is not the way I'm raising my children. Arbitrary cowering is not to be part of their personality, and this really is one reason we homeschool. I believe schoolchildren are stripped of their civil rights in this country, as we saw in the very situation that we're discussing. My children won't spend their days trying to please people who are not vested in protecting their rights as citizens and as persons.

 

They are being raised to respect legitimate authority and to follow the just laws of the land, claiming their rights of citizenship and standing for the rights of others. Look people in the eye and speak the truth. Never join a mob to riot and destroy, but learn where to petition lawfully. Never sit silently while your neighbor is persecuted or marginalized.

 

THESE are American and Christian values.

[Guest]

Neither the "Iranian" father who murdered his daughters (I thought he was from Egypt; he had an Egyptian passport.) nor Ahmed's family live in a Houston suburb.         ??

 

As to similarities, if you go back to read my post, I never said there were similarities between the families -- afaik, there are none of any consequence. 

 

Nor do I know what branch of Islam Ahmed's family affiliates with, except that news reports labeled his father as Sufi some years ago, and I have no idea whether the local mosques in Irving or the tribunal, which has little connection to Irving other than causing a stir there when the judges held press conferences at the local mosque, are Sufi.  That's why I said in my first post, "I don't know if this family identifies with the same group of Islamic people behind the court." 

 

I was not equating Ahmed's actions with the court nor with the murders -- read my post, OK?  I was stating that his actions were imprudent, in a normal-for-a-14-year-old kind of way-- in the first place, but moreso in the history and context of his community.   

 

You baldly do not understand the context of his community.

 

You THINK you do, because you saw a teevee show.

 

YOU brought up how a Muslim (Muslim is the term, not Islamic) man killed his two daughters and correlated that to Ahmed's situation. Ditto the "Sharia courts.

 

YOU implied he just did this for attention. I'm sorry, no, you said outright that unless XYZ, he just did it for attention. Not clear if you're taking about Ahmed or his father there, but *regardless* your whatchudontknow is showing.

 

YOU said all of these things. Despite not even knowing what a Sufi is, and clearly having a loose grasp on what the Sharia is, and having it pointed out repeatedly that your expertise does not lie with "This American Muslim life"

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

You cannot be serious.

 

Please, please consider the history of the 20th century, and then identify how various oppressed and persecuted peoples across the globe brought their own destruction upon their heads due to provoking a scene.

 

It happened here, too, not just to Jews, homosexuals, and sympathetic persons of other faiths in Europe; not just to refugees fleeing from war-torn, communist SE Asia; but here.

 

Japanese Americans were interned at Manzanar and other camps. Some of my own German American relatives relocated to a camp, while other of their sons fought in WW2 as American soldiers...

 

...what, pray tell, did any of these people do to provoke a scene with their fascist overlords? Other than being the race, color, or nationality that they were?

 

"Head down and keep walking" is not the way I'm raising my children. Arbitrary cowering is not to be part of their personality, and this really is one reason we homeschool. I believe schoolchildren are stripped of their civil rights in this country, as we saw in the very situation that we're discussing. My children won't spend their days trying to please people who are not vested in protecting their rights as citizens and as persons.

 

They are being raised to respect legitimate authority and to follow the just laws of the land, claiming their rights of citizenship and standing for the rights of others. Look people in the eye and speak the truth. Never join a mob to riot and destroy, but learn where to petition lawfully. Never sit silently while your neighbor is persecuted or marginalized.

 

THESE are American and Christian values.

+1

I guess he should be glad he didn't "whistle" at a white girl.

 

[MercyA]

You really need to read the article before judging then. He isn't saying it's not a real thing, he is pointing out the evidence in this and similar cases is that zero tolerance policies are the primary culprit, not everyone around the kid being racist. And this argument is well supported.

 

I'd be happy to read the article if I don't need to subscribe.  :)

 

However, if one of the police officers did say, "That's who I thought it was" after seeing Ahmed, racism certainly was a contributing factor in this case.

[Halftime Hope]

This is one of the most anti-American statements I have ever had the misfortune to read.

 

So we should all just act however we want, do whatever we want, as long as we're not breaking the law explicit laws or hurting anyone?  That's what it boils down to.

[Guest]

So we should all just act however we want, do whatever we want, as long as we're not breaking the law explicit laws or hurting anyone?  That's what it boils down to.

 

???????

 

Yes! Exactly!

 

How on earth else can you dictate the lives of others if not by the "swinging your fist" rule????

[Lang Syne Boardie]

+1

I guess he should be glad he didn't "whistle" at a white girl.

 

 

Yep. Failure to know one's place in one's community and not get uppity -- when and where are we, again, that anyone should tolerate that?

 

My husband said recently that he thinks we are going backward as a nation, about a million miles per hour. We are increasingly uneducated, small-minded, and superstitious.

[myfunnybunch]

/sarcasm/ Thank you for the education because your explanation was germane to my overall point, which was that in the context of his community, he should have exercised more caution. /sarcasm off/

Wait. What? I read this as because he is Muslim/of Arabic descent ("the context of his community"), he should not behave in the same manner as any other bright curious 14 y.o. in his public school environment ( which is presumably funded with tax dollars from all of the various local communities and their contexts).

 

Is that what you're saying? Because he's from an Arabic/Muslim community, he should behave differently and expect to be treated differently?

[Paige]

So we should all just act however we want, do whatever we want, as long as we're not breaking the law explicit laws or hurting anyone?  That's what it boils down to.

 

Isn't that what freedom means?  :confused1:

[ChocolateReignRemix]

So we should all just act however we want, do whatever we want, as long as we're not breaking the law explicit laws or hurting anyone?  That's what it boils down to.

 

In a free society I think it is reasonable to believe that someone who hasn't broken the law or hurt anyone shouldn't be hauled away in handcuffs.

 

[amsunshine]

Wait. What? I read this as because he is Muslim/of Arabic descent ("the context of his community"), he should not behave in the same manner as any other bright curious 14 y.o. in his public school environment ( which is presumably funded with tax dollars from all of the various local communities and their contexts).

 

Is that what you're saying? Because he's from an Arabic/Muslim community, he should behave differently and expect to be treated differently?

 

That's exactly what she is saying.  

[Word Nerd]

So we should all just act however we want, do whatever we want, as long as we're not breaking the law explicit laws or hurting anyone? That's what it boils down to.

Yes, exactly! I'm baffled by your implication that there's something wrong with that view, but it does explain why we see this so differently.

[Halftime Hope]

You baldly do not understand the context of his community.   Really?!?  Sez you.  You know a great deal of almost nothing about my life. 

 

You THINK you do, because you saw a teevee show.    No, I am very well acquainted with the context of the community.  The only thing the TV show(s) did for me was to convince me that I was very glad I was not a Muslim woman, given the lesser status the judges described Muslim women as having, in the discussion that ensued on said shows. 

 

Over the last (at least) 15 years, terminology has changed.  So forgive me for using both Muslim and Islamic when they are used interchangeably in our media and our culture.  If you are through picking on my wording, why don't you go lecture ChocolateRiegn about how Islam is not a race, OK?

 

YOU brought up how a Muslim (Muslim is the term, not Islamic) man killed his two daughters and correlated that to Ahmed's situation. Ditto the "Sharia courts.    No, I did not correlate that to his situation.  I said that he lives in a community that has those two things as part of its context.   Read for meaning, OK? 

 

YOU implied he just did this for attention. I'm sorry, no, you said outright that unless XYZ, he just did it for attention. Not clear if you're taking about Ahmed or his father there, but *regardless* your whatchudontknow is showing.    I was talking about his father who has a history of putting himself in odd "spotlight" situations.   You are right, I personally don't know the kid's motives, nor the dad's.  But I've been on the planet long enough to know that situations that seem weird or odd often have additional layers that are revealed in time.  

 

YOU said all of these things. Despite not even knowing what a Sufi is, and clearly having a loose grasp on what the Sharia is, and having it pointed out repeatedly that your expertise does not lie with "This American Muslim life"

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Where did I say or imply Muslims are a race?

[myfunnybunch]

Investigation =/= arrest.

 

I do not care how many ways you try to reframe this story the 14 YEAR OLD kid did NOT DESERVE to be ARRESTED. Period. Full stop. End of story. He should never have been removed from the school. His project was not prodigy level but the actions of the adults involved were most certainly prodigiously stupid.

 

So Yes, it does sound extremely racist to continue making excuses for the racist cops. If that's not the idea you wish to project, then there is no excusing the adult behavior in this case.

 

This. A bajillion quatrillion times.

 

No one is venerating the kid.

 

He is receiving the attention and support because this situation is in NO WAY his fault. Even if he "should have known xyz." Even if he used the words "invented" or "made" instead of "rebuilt." Even if his father does whatever profession and is "media-savvy." Even if we've watched documentaries about Muslims. Even if one is upset that he was arrested and it really shouldn't have happened, BUT....(insert reason why he is fully or partially to blame).

 

Ahmed did nothing wrong. Period. The End. THAT is the issue.

[Halftime Hope]

There's an ocean of obnoxious, disruptive, inappropriate, unwise behavior and/or actions that "doesn't break the law or hurt anyone."  I'll get my future grandkids right on that when they come, k?

 

This kid bringing his contraption to school was definitely the last three, and if I were the teacher, and the thing started ringing in the middle of the class, I might consider it #1, too. 

[Guest]

No, I did not correlate that to his situation.  I said that he lives in a community that has those two things as part of its context.   Read for meaning, OK? 

 

He very, very, very likely does not live in a community that has those two things as a part of his context. No Muslim community I have ever been a part of has ever had "Sharia courts" or "honor killings" as a "part of their context."

 

You really think all American Muslims are hob-nobbing with psychopaths every other day geez, if you think those things (especially that father  who murdered his girls OMGOMGOMG!) are a part of our community contexts.

 

I recoil in horror.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

There's an ocean of obnoxious, disruptive, inappropriate, unwise behavior and/or actions that "doesn't break the law or hurt anyone."  I'll get my future grandkids right on that when they come, k?

 

This kid bringing his contraption to school was definitely the last three, and if I were the teacher, and the thing started ringing in the middle of the class, I might consider it #1, too. 

 

Confiscating a disruptive device: reasonable

 

Hanging on to the device for hours and then deciding it is a bomb: not reasonable

 

 

And regardless of the "context of the community" this kid comes from, he shouldn't have ended up in handcuffs.

[zoobie]

Dallas. Irving is a large suburb of Dallas. Houston is about 3 1/2-4 hours away.

Even less of a "connection" then!

[Word Nerd]

Obnoxious, disruptive behavior does hurt others.

[Guest]

 

And regardless of the "context of the community" this kid comes from, he shouldn't have ended up in handcuffs.

 

Right. Because this is America.

 

"This is America" so rarely suffices for an explanation, but is soooo does in this case!

[Halftime Hope]

Where did I say or imply Muslims are a race?

 

Sorry I can't multi-quote. 

 

From your other post: 

 

 

Sadly we are in a nation where referring to the president as a "Muslim!!!" is supposed to be a slur. We also have people standing up and asking during nation debates "What are we gonna do about these Muslims???" and for some reason the response isn't "Sit down and shut up you slack-jawed racist."

 

 

*********

 

 

I didn't say anything about it to you, because I figured I understood what you meant, and it wasn't worth nitpicking about. 

 

[Halftime Hope]

Confiscating a disruptive device: reasonable

 

Hanging on to the device for hours and then deciding it is a bomb: not reasonable

 

 

And regardless of the "context of the community" this kid comes from, he shouldn't have ended up in handcuffs.

 

I agree with all three statements.  Whole-heartedly.

[Butter]

And interestingly, in the Dallas area near Irving is a street called White Settlement Road.  Always makes us scratch our heads a bit when we go.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Settlement,_Texas

 

I'm guessing the road is named for the town.  Apparently, there was a settlement of white people and a settlement of Native Americans near each other and the one was given the name "White Settlement" to distinguish it from the other.

[Dmmetler]

You mean to tell me that bringing a project, similar or identical to ones that the kid did in an 8th grade school sponsored club, to show to the teacher of that particular subject, is not appropriate for school?

 

And you really believe that this is the first kid who has accidentally set a watch or cell phone alarm off by 12 hours, or had it jogged on when it was still set to 12:00, and that such warrants anything beyond having the teacher take the device and put it away for the period?

 

Sorry, but this kid did nothing to warrant suspension or arrest. And I'd be saying the same if the name were Aaron Miller or Annie Marshall. Behaving like a 14 yr old is not an actionable offense for a 14 yr old!

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Sorry I can't multi-quote. 

 

From your other post: 

 

 

Sadly we are in a nation where referring to the president as a "Muslim!!!" is supposed to be a slur. We also have people standing up and asking during nation debates "What are we gonna do about these Muslims???" and for some reason the response isn't "Sit down and shut up you slack-jawed racist."

 

 

*********

 

 

I didn't say anything about it to you, because I figured I understood what you meant, and it wasn't worth nitpicking about. 

 

 

Racist is a catch all term that applies in that situation.  And I am comfortable using it to each describe someone with that level of ignorance.

 

[zoobie]

Neither the "Iranian" father who murdered his daughters (I thought he was from Egypt; he had an Egyptian passport.) nor Ahmed's family live in a Houston suburb. ??

 

As to similarities, if you go back to read my post, I never said there were similarities between the families -- afaik, there are none of any consequence.

 

Nor do I know what branch of Islam Ahmed's family affiliates with, except that news reports labeled his father as Sufi some years ago, and I have no idea whether the local mosques in Irving or the tribunal, which has little connection to Irving other than causing a stir there when the judges held press conferences at the local mosque, are Sufi. That's why I said in my first post, "I don't know if this family identifies with the same group of Islamic people behind the court."

 

I was not equating Ahmed's actions with the court nor with the murders -- read my post, OK? I was stating that his actions were imprudent, in a normal-for-a-14-year-old kind of way-- in the first place, but moreso in the history and context of his community.

Behind what court? The crazy murderers in the Iranian family in Houston happened in 2012. The civil mediation group the nutbucket mayor of Irving went off about "Sharia Law" on was started this year. Our friend runs a family law mediation group. He's also an ordained minister. They pray before mediations if the parties desire it. Is this SHARIA LAW? No. They're private, civil mediations that can be run however the parties see fit because the mediations are voluntary and not affiliated with the government.

[amsunshine]

There's an ocean of obnoxious, disruptive, inappropriate, unwise behavior and/or actions that "doesn't break the law or hurt anyone."  I'll get my future grandkids right on that when they come, k?

 

This kid bringing his contraption to school was definitely the last three, and if I were the teacher, and the thing started ringing in the middle of the class, I might consider it #1, too. 

 

So, it's obnoxious, disruptive, inappropriate and unwise to try to learn something about electronics while tinkering with digital clocks and bring the product of that learning/tinkering to a school that has apparently won awards for its STEM programs.  Wow.

[Halftime Hope]

No, I did not correlate that to his situation.  I said that he lives in a community that has those two things as part of its context.   Read for meaning, OK? 

 

He very, very, very likely does not live in a community that has those two things as a part of his context. No Muslim community I have ever been a part of has ever had "Sharia courts" or "honor killings" as a "part of their context."

 

You really think all American Muslims are hob-nobbing with psychopaths every other day geez, if you think those things (especially that father  who murdered his girls OMGOMGOMG!) are a part of our community contexts.

 

I recoil in horror.

 

 

I don't know, okbud,   You continuously misread/misinterpret the things I write.  Maybe you are coming into the discussion late?

 

1) Ahmed lives in Irving; that is physically his community/town/suburb. (His family has a physical domicile there.) 

2)  Those two things (the sharia tribunal and the honor-murders of the girls) are a part of the context and history of the community of Irving, not the community of Muslims.

[Corraleno]

Isn't that what freedom means?  :confused1:

 

Only if you're the "right" color and religion, apparently. Brown people and Muslims should know better than to try to exercise the same freedoms as everyone else. Because "context."  :blink: 

 

[6packofun]

Happily going to meet with their lawyer!  They are absolutely American.

 

https://twitter.com/istandwithahmed/status/644179809170509824

[amsunshine]

Only if you're the "right" color and religion, apparently. Brown people and Muslims should know better than to try to exercise the same freedoms as everyone else. Because "context."  :blink:

 

Right, and following along with that logic, I guess Rosa Parks should have stayed at the back of the bus and Ruby Bridges should have just stayed home because, you know, "context."

[Halftime Hope]

Behind what court? The crazy murderers in the Iranian family in Houston happened in 2012. The civil mediation group the nutbucket mayor of Irving went off about "Sharia Law" on was started this year. Our friend runs a family law mediation group. He's also an ordained minister. They pray before mediations if the parties desire it. Is this SHARIA LAW? No. They're private, civil mediations that can be run however the parties see fit because the mediations are voluntary and not affiliated with the government.

 

 

Your post is just all over the place--it has me completely confused; so how about I tell you what I've been referring to? Maybe that will clear things up a bit?

 

In 2008, two darling sisters were killed by their father in Irving, in what appeared to be a Muslim honor-killing because they were too Westernized for his taste, and there are allegations of child abuse as well.  (ETA:  Irving, collectively, was stricken, heart-broken that this could happen to two of their own.  The 911 call was absolutely heart-wrenching. )  Documentaries have been filmed about it, although maybe not released yet, and the father has evaded capture and is on the FBI's Top 10 list, or he was.  Not sure the current status.  The man had an Egyptian passport, but I'm not sure if that means he was actually Egyptian or not. 

 

ETA;  regarding the mediation group you brought up vs. the one brought to national attention related to Irving:  the "judges" for the "tribunal" said it was based on Sharia law.  Those are their words to use to describe themselves.

[amsunshine]

Your post is just all over the place--it has me completely confused; so how about I tell you what I've been referring to? Maybe that will clear things up a bit?

 

In 2008, two darling sisters were killed by their father in Irving, in what appeared to be a Muslim honor-killing because they were too Westernized for his taste, and there are allegations of child abuse as well.  (ETA:  Irving, collectively, was stricken, heart-broken that this could happen to two of their own.  The 911 call was absolutely heart-wrenching. )  Documentaries have been filmed about it, although maybe not released yet, and the father has evaded capture and is on the FBI's Top 10 list, or he was.  Not sure the current status.  The man had an Egyptian passport, but I'm not sure if that means he was actually Egyptian or not. 

 

The "judges" for the "tribunal" said it was based on Sharia law.  Those are their words to describe themselves.

 

None of what you are talking here about has anything, whatsoever, to do with Ahmed.

[idnib]

In the context of the family's community, it was a really, really, stupid thing to do.  

 

So you're agreeing that his religion/color/ethnicity had something to do with it, then.

 

It's exactly the sort of project that kids with access to Radio Shack or a bunch of old appliances have been making for years. But where most kids would have been encouraged and perhaps the adult in their life would have suggested a next step, the poor kid got told that the adults who are entrusted with his education and safety believe he's a terrorist.

 

That's what's so funny. The same people who are criticizing him are probably supporters of American ingenuity, tinkering, inventiveness, drive, initiative, competence, etc and would call those things "what made America great."  (And personally, I wouldn't disagree.) 

 

I think we ALL, every one of us, needs to weigh carefully our actions, our choices, and the possible consequences that may ensue from them.  There are two concepts in my faith tradition that sum it up nicely, to behave in a manner that is "above reproach" and to "avoid all appearance of wrong-doing".   Along with that, but one notch less restrictive, is the concept of using common sense.  It's just common sense to adapt our behavior according to our context. 

 

And that's what he did. His context is that he's a student in an engineering class. What happened to that context?

 

 

"Head down and keep walking" is not the way I'm raising my children. 

 

Don't worry, his criticizers are not actually raising their children that way either. They just want Ahmed to be that way.

 

Wait. What? I read this as because he is Muslim/of Arabic descent ("the context of his community"), he should not behave in the same manner as any other bright curious 14 y.o. in his public school environment ( which is presumably funded with tax dollars from all of the various local communities and their contexts).

 

Is that what you're saying? Because he's from an Arabic/Muslim community, he should behave differently and expect to be treated differently?

 

Yes, that's what is being said here. He should know better that to act like the privileged folks.

[Halftime Hope]

None of what you are talking here about has anything, whatsoever, to do with Ahmed.

 

 

The only connection to Ahmed is that these things are part of Irving's history/context, and he lives in Irving.  That's what I said in my initial post, and readers on this thread assumed and read into it what they wanted to believe.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

 

 

 

Don't worry, his criticizers are not actually raising their children that way either. They just want Ahmed to be that way.

 

 

I guess I failed to close the circle.

 

I was trying to say that nobody should raise their children to cower. Not me, not Ahmed Mohamed's parents, not the person to whom I was responding.

[amsunshine]

The only connection to Ahmed is that these things are part of Irving's history/context, and he lives in Irving.  That's what I said in my initial post, and readers on this thread assumed and read into it what they wanted to believe.

 

No, there really is no connection, whatsoever.  Just because he lives in a particular city doesn't automatically connect him with the criminal activities of other people who happen to live there, too.  That makes no logical sense.

[Halftime Hope]

Guys, don't tell me that each one of us doesn't adjust our behavior for the context we are in.  We do.  I'm going to have different commonsense guidelines for how I act in an airport, in a nice restaurant, at the park, or at a football game.

 

School kids should not bring weird-looking contraptions into schools that have zero-tolerance policies. (Some don't allow bags or lockers at all, others only allow see-through bags.) 

 

 

[myfunnybunch]

Your post is just all over the place--it has me completely confused; so how about I tell you what I've been referring to? Maybe that will clear things up a bit?

 

In 2008, two darling sisters were killed by their father in Irving, in what appeared to be a Muslim honor-killing because they were too Westernized for his taste, and there are allegations of child abuse as well.  (ETA:  Irving, collectively, was stricken, heart-broken that this could happen to two of their own.  The 911 call was absolutely heart-wrenching. )  Documentaries have been filmed about it, although maybe not released yet, and the father has evaded capture and is on the FBI's Top 10 list, or he was.  Not sure the current status.  The man had an Egyptian passport, but I'm not sure if that means he was actually Egyptian or not. 

 

ETA;  regarding the mediation group you brought up vs. the one brought to national attention related to Irving:  the "judges" for the "tribunal" said it was based on Sharia law.  Those are their words to use to describe themselves.

 

:huh:

 

I find this rabbit trail puzzling, coming from someone who used the word "germane" to describe your point up thread.

 

A 7 year old murder case is completely irrelevant even if the people involved share a common city and religion. It does not create a relevant community context any more than murders committed by Christian (or Hindu or Jewish or Buddhist or atheist or agnostic or...) fathers create a context for Christian (and etc.) communities, and particularly not a community context that should in any way impact school discipline for a completely unrelated offence 7 years later.

[Corraleno]

1) Ahmed lives in Irving; that is physically his community/town/suburb. (His family has a physical domicile there.) 

2)  Those two things (the sharia tribunal and the honor-murders of the girls) are a part of the context and history of the community of Irving, not the community of Muslims.

 

In other words, because a Muslim man murdered his daughters in Irving 7 years ago, and the fear-mongering mayor of Irving recently referred to a nonbinding arbitration service as a "Sharia Court," therefore a 14 year old Muslim boy should have known better than to bring a homemade digital clock to school in 2015. 

 

:blink:

[idnib]

I guess I failed to close the circle.

 

I was trying to say that nobody should raise their children to cower. Not me, not Ahmed Mohamed's parents, not the person to whom I was responding.

 

 

I know. I just find it interesting that many of the same people criticizing Ahmed (not in this thread) are teaching their kids about the Constitution, civil rights, limitations on government power, etc. and are raising their kids not to cower and to defend their rights. They just don't like it when Ahmed does the same thing. He's not supposed to have that privilege, he's supposed to use context to know his place and keep his head down.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Guys, don't tell me that each one of us doesn't adjust our behavior for the context we are in.  We do.  I'm going to have different commonsense guidelines for how I act in an airport, in a nice restaurant, at the park, or at a football game.

 

School kids should not bring weird-looking contraptions into schools that have zero-tolerance policies. (Some don't allow bags or lockers at all, others only allow see-through bags.) 

 

Your specious arguments in this thread are a moving target, but I'll respond to this one anyway.

 

You are arguing the side of the principal who reminded the families of the school that children need to comply by policies about allowed items. What the principal did not say was that clocks are not allowed, nor objects that are not understood by ignorant teachers, nor harmless things that students have made.

[Halftime Hope]

I guess I failed to close the circle.

 

I was trying to say that nobody should raise their children to cower. Not me, not Ahmed Mohamed's parents, not the person to whom I was responding.

 

Thank you, Tibbie, for clarifying.  I agree that no one should raise their children to cower.  I hope I *have* raised my children to consider the context they are in and to prudently adjust their behavior to fit the situation.

 

 

The other posters going off about race and color and privilege regarding my posts -- you all could not be further from the truth thinking that's *my* meaning.  But if that makes you happy, so be it.