s/o Is it appropriate to take a concealed weapon into someone else's home

[MedicMom]

I read that in NY (minus NYC they have different laws) it's not impossible to get a permit to conceal carry, but you are required to have a compelling reason and the state maintains the right to ask (it was upheld in court cases where that was challenged). I don't know what the compelling reasons would have to be, but then I just assume it's not super easy to get the permit. I don't know all the ins and outs of when, where, how one is allowed to do that though.

I live in NY. CC permits are issued by the judge in your county, so it does vary by county. Recently it had been very difficult to get a CC permit in an adjoining county, that judge retired last year and the new judge is issuing a lot of them. You have to fill out an application, provide the name and address of three references(they do send letters to them and will not issue a permit until they get the references back) and be fingerprinted. The application does ask what your "compelling reason" is; everyone I have talked to has put down home defense and the permit has been issued based on that. I know one person in the aforementioned county who did receive a permit with the old judge; and his compelling reason was police documented threats against his life from disgruntled former employees. Other than that, the old judge never considered much to be compelling and would deny it. In my county, and with the new judge, "home defense," while vague, has gotten them all CC permits.

 

I really thinks it's all local culture.

[Murphy101]

I was there. He didn't keep it tucked in his waistband. He let kids hold it. If it is hysteria to not want some idiot brandishing a gun and letting kids hold it at soccer practice, then I am hysterical.

Then he should have been arrested for endangerment and I'd be royal ticked the cops didn't arrest him.

 

I would agree in this description that it is no where near hysteria to be very upset.

 

Walking through the park and happening to have a gun on your person is not at on par with "brandishing about" or letting random kids mess with it. That's crazy and his license should be revoked. Especially if a cop witnessed it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I live in NY. CC permits are issued by the judge in your county, so it does vary by county. Recently it had been very difficult to get a CC permit in an adjoining county, that judge retired last year and the new judge is issuing a lot of them. You have to fill out an application, provide the name and address of three references(they do send letters to them and will not issue a permit until they get the references back) and be fingerprinted. The application does ask what your "compelling reason" is; everyone I have talked to has put down home defense and the permit has been issued based on that. I know one person in the aforementioned county who did receive a permit with the old judge; and his compelling reason was police documented threats against his life from disgruntled former employees. Other than that, the old judge never considered much to be compelling and would deny it. In my county, and with the new judge, "home defense," while vague, has gotten them all CC permits.

 

I really thinks it's all local culture.

 

What I find incredibly odd is that in my county stun guns are not allowed.  If I wanted any sort of protection that idea appeals to me more than a regular gun.  I don't necessarily want to kill someone.  But it is absolutely not allowed.

[Word Nerd]

OK. I read the all posts even though I said I wouldn't. There are a few people here I would I invite into my home, but not many.

 

Glad I don't entertain much.

:confused: Why? Only a few even hinted they may go to someone's home with a concealed weapon without explicit permission, if they even carry.

[Murphy101]

Martha, I'm not asking what state you live in, but do you consider your state to have good regulations concerning what type of training, etc a person must go thru to get a gun permit? I've read articles on how widely they can vary. Do you feel a gun safety course is a necessity? I'm a bit at odds thinking someone can become weapon ready within a few short hours, for example.

There's separate aspects to "weapon ready".

 

The safety course is just that. It doesn't cover target skills. You could be incapable of hitting a bale of hay from 10 feet and pass it. Bc it doesn't matter how good a shot you are, but how SAFE a gun handler you are. Likewise you could hit center every time and fail bc you didn't handle the gun safely or pass the written laws and safety test. And to be honest anyone who can't pass either the written or range safety test shouldn't have a gun. It is not rocket science to properly handle a firearm. They have to demonstrate how to load and discharge 5 shots and safely secure a weapon.

 

There's also fingerprinting and federal background checking. There's also questions about mental health of the one seeking the license and its explained as part of the course that if ANYONE in home has ANY mental illness, diagnosed or confirmed, all weapons must be removed from the home and their access. And many mental illness issues do come up in background check bc ppl have to go to court to force someone into treatment for example.

 

It takes at least 6 weeks to get licensed and up to 8 weeks.

 

I do think the required safety course is adequate in my state.

[happypamama]

None of the responsible gun owners I know would consider it to be responsible to let random kids handle a gun at a soccer game or wherever it was mentioned. They take gun safety, especially with children, very, very seriously. If children are curious, they would carefully show an unloaded gun to the children, with parental permission, in a controlled way, and only after serious discussion about safety, treating every gun as loaded, etc. They would believe demystifying guns through education and careful treatment. They'd be appalled at the scenario that seems to have been described.

[Caroline]

But therein lies the problem. You don't have to be a responsible gun owner to own a gun.

 

None of the responsible gun owners I know would consider it to be responsible to let random kids handle a gun at a soccer game or wherever it was mentioned. They take gun safety, especially with children, very, very seriously. If children are curious, they would carefully show an unloaded gun to the children, with parental permission, in a controlled way, and only after serious discussion about safety, treating every gun as loaded, etc. They would believe demystifying guns through education and careful treatment. They'd be appalled at the scenario that seems to have been described.

[SparklyUnicorn]

:confused: Why? Only a few even hinted they may go to someone's home with a concealed weapon without explicit permission, if they even carry.

 

I think the surprising thing is that some don't see it as a problem.  Even if one has guns, it's something different to be carrying one around all.the.time.  To the point where hell the person can't even come over to your house for a couple of hours without it. 

 

But then I don't get the gun love either really.  (I'm not claiming all gun owners are gun lovers though.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

But therein lies the problem. You don't have to be a responsible gun owner to own a gun.

 

 

Best point ever.

 

I assume gun owners aren't more responsible as a group than all people in general.

[ktgrok]

But therein lies the problem. You don't have to be a responsible gun owner to own a gun.

 

 

Exactly. I trust me to use a gun, but I don't trust anyone else (other than my husband) so I don't want other's carrying in my house. I'm happy to lock someone's gun up for them though. 

[Murphy101]

I think the surprising thing is that some don't see it as a problem. Even if one has guns, it's something different to be carrying one around all.the.time. To the point where hell the person can't even come over to your house for a couple of hours without it.

 

But then I don't get the gun love either really. (I'm not claiming all gun owners are gun lovers though.)

From the perspective of some gun owners, they aren't hiding something or trying to be rude. They are just going about their daily life same as always and that happens to include a holster in their wardrobe.

[Murphy101]

Exactly. I trust me to use a gun, but I don't trust anyone else (other than my husband) so I don't want other's carrying in my house. I'm happy to lock someone's gun up for them though.

And I don't know any gun owners who would have a problem with that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

From the perspective of some gun owners, they aren't hiding something or trying to be rude. They are just going about their daily life same as always and that happens to include a holster in their wardrobe.

 

And I find that extremely odd.

[ktgrok]

From the perspective of some gun owners, they aren't hiding something or trying to be rude. They are just going about their daily life same as always and that happens to include a holster in their wardrobe.

 

Yes, but courtesy would be to ask if it is okay. If the person is okay with it, then fine you get to carry and no harm done. If the person isn't okay with it, then you shouldn't carry there. So asking is the right thing to do, if you don't know their stance. If you do know there stance, know they don't like guns, and carry anyway, that's horribly rude and offensive. 

 

I did just ask my husband, who does carry on a daily basis, this question. He said of course you don't carry into someone's home without asking. He has friends that are okay with it, and friends that he knows are uncomfrotable around guns. He would never dream of carrying in those friends' homes. He just locks his firearm in the truck before going in, Same with my family. No big deal. 

[happypamama]

But therein lies the problem. You don't have to be a responsible gun owner to own a gun.

 

 

Of course you don't. My point was just that nobody in their right mind would think that letting random kids handle a gun was okay. I was just jumping in from the perspective of a second amendment supporter to say, "Don't assume all gun owners feel that way!" Just like nobody wants all homeschoolers tarred with the "lazy non-schoolers" brush, gun owners don't want to let a few nutjobs tar all of them either.

[Aelwydd]

For my dh it's just something he puts on every day as part of getting dressed. He goes all over Houston and our small town outside of Houston with it on his person. If he showed up to visit you for some reason, he would walk in with it on because he wouldn't even think about asking you about it. Nor would it mean that he thought something shady was going to happen at your home. To him it would be like saying, "Should I remove my underwear before I enter your home?" It's just part of his normal state of "attire" (not the right word, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for). You wouldn't even know he had it unless someone busted in your house while he was there and tried to harm you or dh.

If he had Glock Hanes, a.k.a., explosive underwear...then, yes. As a matter of fact, I would demand he left them somewhere else.

 

Also, if a person ever forgets that they are carrying a deadly weapon, I think maybe they should reconsider carrying with that kind of absentmindedness.

[Guest]

I guess that is why I am confused. The DC Sniper wasn't engaging in home invasions.

It was just an example. Upon reflection, that may not even have been the one that prompted my SIL to say that.

[Chess Dad]

Being a police officer and a soldier I carry concealed nearly everywhere I go.  I personally do it for my safety and the safety of my family.  Each person has to decide for themselves if they want to carry or not.  I'm ok with those that don't and those that do.  

 

I've seen many cases where guns have saved lives and prevented crimes.  I also seen where guns caused great damage and hurt innocent persons.  Again, it's a personal choice and hopefully it will stay that way.  America is not Canada or England.  Guns are a big part of American Culture, good and bad and it needs to stay that way.  IMHO :patriot:  

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

Hell no, not in my house.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Odd being the polite form of totally nuts.

 

I can't think of a single good reason why anyone ( other than the police responding to an 000 call ) coming into my home, should bring a gun with them.

 

Guns belong in gun safes, unless they are being used for hunting, sport or pest control.

 

Yeah. I'm really not scary enough to warrant needing a gun to visit me.

[wathe]

Canadian here.  This thread is just mind-boggling. 

 

There was a recent thread "What is American Culture".   This is.  Completely and utterly outside my experience.

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

Canadian here.  This thread is just mind-boggling. 

 

There was a recent thread "What is American Culture".   This is.  Completely and utterly outside my experience.

 

Except some of us who think it's totally nuts are Americans.  Just probably from a different area of the country. 

[Guest]

The people I know who CC are also gun enthusiasts meaning they go out shooting every weekend and are quite well trained (more than many LE officers). I welcome them into my home and I feel safer knowing they are around when out in public.

[poppy]

The people I know who CC are also gun enthusiasts meaning they go out shooting every weekend and are quite well trained (more than many LE officers). I welcome them into my home and I feel safer knowing they are around when out in public.

 

Ah but that is the people you know who *tell you* that they CC. Several posters have said that their CC status is no one's business and do not reveal their carrying status.  

[*Lulu*]

Except some of us who think it's totally nuts are Americans. Just probably from a different area of the country.

IDK. I'm from the South. That seems to be where there is a high concentration of the gun love.

[Julie Smith]

You must have gone to public school. Just like the government to keep the masses uneducated about how to defend themselves from the real enemy- the zombie.

 

My library is putting on a one day 2 hour? class called, "How to Survive the Zombie Apocalypse"  It's for grade 4 to 6.

[ktgrok]

Being a police officer and a soldier I carry concealed nearly everywhere I go.  I personally do it for my safety and the safety of my family.  Each person has to decide for themselves if they want to carry or not.  I'm ok with those that don't and those that do.  

 

I've seen many cases where guns have saved lives and prevented crimes.  I also seen where guns caused great damage and hurt innocent persons.  Again, it's a personal choice and hopefully it will stay that way.  America is not Canada or England.  Guns are a big part of American Culture, good and bad and it needs to stay that way.  IMHO :patriot:  

 

But would you carry in someone's home who didn't want you to?

[Murphy101]

Yes, but courtesy would be to ask if it is okay. If the person is okay with it, then fine you get to carry and no harm done. If the person isn't okay with it, then you shouldn't carry there. So asking is the right thing to do, if you don't know their stance. If you do know there stance, know they don't like guns, and carry anyway, that's horribly rude and offensive.

 

I did just ask my husband, who does carry on a daily basis, this question. He said of course you don't carry into someone's home without asking. He has friends that are okay with it, and friends that he knows are uncomfrotable around guns. He would never dream of carrying in those friends' homes. He just locks his firearm in the truck before going in, Same with my family. No big deal.

I agree with him/you. But I have friends who have never asked. I have family who has never asked. It's just never occurred to them bc most of who they are around are gun friendly.

 

I'm simply posing the other side. If someone is rarely aware of guns, it's astounding that for many people guns are just a normal thing. To the person who it is commonplace, it's astounding that it even comes up in conversation.

 

For me, it's a non issue.

 

All my money goes for books and yarn and seeds and ice skates and gas in the big honkin van and..feeding people and critters.

 

But I grew up around guns and have many friends and family with guns. And many friends who feel like some posters here. I really do see this as a culture/lifestyle clash.

 

And for the record, I agree it's just good manners for a guest to make their hostess comfortable.

 

But the law doesn't care about manners. Someone not me doesn't have to be as honest as I am.

 

Bc it's not illegal to lie.

 

And really at that point the problem isn't the gun.

 

It's how can we avoid inviting liars to our homes?

[*Lulu*]

 

My library is putting on a one day 2 hour? class called, "How to Survive the Zombie Apocalypse" It's for grade 4 to 6.

 

How many cupcakes will it take to get you to attend and report back?

[texasmama]

How many cupcakes will it take to get you to attend and report back?

She can consider it a public service.

[Amira]

I grew up in an area where a lot of people had guns.  Several of my in-laws own guns or see it as completely normal to own guns even if they don't themselves.  My immediate family culture had nothing to do with guns but they were still common around me.  There was a school holiday for the deer hunt when I was younger and lots of people went hunting.  I know guns are normal for many people. I don't think it matters to my original question how familiar I am with gun culture or how many of my neighbors or family members think gun ownership is normal. I don't want anyone to assume that they can bring a gun into my house without permission no matter what part of the US I live in.

 

[Vera]

It used to be a non issue for me too until someone with a gun devastated my town. Then a couple responsible gun owners legally hung out at the Starbucks in my town with their guns openly displayed. My son was there with his friend who had lost her little brother in the shooting. I can't even explain how painful that experience was for them. I have never seen my son that upset. I don't want a gun in my house or in a car in my driveway or anywhere else on my property.

[Julie Smith]

She can consider it a public service.

 

I will post if my boys end up attending. I think it is next month. 

[Word Nerd]

I just don't understand why anyone would NEED to bring a gun into your home...

Who is claiming they need to?

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

Do people really ask their guests if they are carrying? I have never had that happen to me. The only person that asked me if I was carrying was a state trooper that had pulled me over. When he ran my tag, he saw that I was a ccw permit holder. When he approached my car,he asked if I had my weapon with me (I didn't). I told him no and he told me to slow down and let me off with a warning. He told me to have a nice day!

 

The person that encouraged me to get a ccw was a LEO. His wife had one and carried often. She traveled alone across the state to visit relatives.

[Amira]

Do people really ask their guests if they are carrying? I have never had that happen to me. The only person that asked me if I was carrying was a state trooper that had pulled me over. When he ran my tag, he saw that I was a ccw permit holder. When he approached my car,he asked if I had my weapon with me (I didn't). I told him no and he told me to slow down and let me off with a warning. He told me to have a nice day!

 

The person that encouraged me to get a ccw was a LEO. His wife had one and carried often. She traveled alone across the state to visit relatives.

 

Before today, I had never considered asking someone if they were carrying because I assumed that no one would ever bring a gun into my home without my permission.  I now know I can't assume that.

[Melissa in Australia]

I'm Canadian. 

 

I think it's wrong to have a concealed weapon. I think it's wrong for someone to carry a weapon that isn't directly related to his or her job. (ie. police officer, someone out in the wild, ..)

I am Australian

 

and I agree

[Kerileanne99]

Yikes. I am so glad I read this thread. I live in Texas. It really hadn't occurred to me that I needed to ask guests entering my own home, or to post a sign. Geez. Yes, hubby and I have already discussed the idea that prior to our children visiting friends houses we will need to ask...but our own home?!

 

And then I wonder: My dd's preschool had an all or nothing invite for bday parties. So every child in the class was invited or none. Obviously this would include some families we know fairly well, and others we don't. Whether I held a party at my house or at a public venue I have to think about this?! And if I choose to hold an event in a public place that allows the them, I get no say! Wow. I didn't realize I needed to choose the Shutterfly invitations template that includes the RSVP option as well as the Please Leave Your Firearms at Home option.

[Samm]

So how many people are going to tell visitors not to bring a firearm anywhere on their property starting tomorrow, or now?  Isn't this the simplest and most direct solution?  There is so much emotion and indignation in this thread.

 

Somehow this thread equates weapons only with guns. Knives are weapons too but in many US states, CCW permits do not include knives.  Knife carry laws can be just as strict, or even stricter than gun carry laws.  In many states, cc of fixed blade knives of any length is forbidden due to dirk & dagger laws on the books.  The few exceptions there are can differ by municipality.   So ... that fruit knife you keep in the glove compartment ... yup, very likely illegal if you don't have a CCW permit, or it may be or just outright illegal.  I guess several state legislatures long ago determined that no one really NEEDS to go around with any sort of knife in their pocket or bag.

 

Enforcement is iffy.  Let's just say if you have already upset a police officer, having that illegal cc knife is not going to win you any points.

[poppy]

So people just bring them along because they want to ?

 

Idk. It's just very alien to me, that you would want to bring a gun along to a social event at a private house.

 

Same reason they  need it at the grocery store or walking the dog or .... ever, I would think. 

 

I honestly don't know how I'd feel if I lived in a state where 1 out of every 10 people out there was probably armed at any given moment.  There are a whole lot of  foolish people out there.  Honestly, I wouldn't worry so much in Wyoming. But states with high rates of poverty, dense population and lots of guns....... that combo might make anyone feel vulnerable.

[Jenny in Florida]

It's not appropriate for anyone, ever to bring a concealed weapon into my home. And if I ever discovered someone had done so, it would be the last time that person was welcome in my home . . . or my presence.

[Mergath]

I grew up in a hunting family with a whole bunch of guns, and I was also in the Army. Anyone who brings a gun onto my property will never be allowed back. I may be comfortable using guns, but I don't like them and I don't want them around.

[Aelwydd]

It used to be a non issue for me too until someone with a gun devastated my town. Then a couple responsible gun owners legally hung out at the Starbucks in my town with their guns openly displayed. My son was there with his friend who had lost her little brother in the shooting. I can't even explain how painful that experience was for them. I have never seen my son that upset. I don't want a gun in my house or in a car in my driveway or anywhere else on my property.

 

Oh sweet Moses. Did those big, powerful gun owners feel good about their rights, re-traumatizing those little kids?  

 

No, don't answer that.  I'm appalled this happened to your kid (and his friend). 

[DesertBlossom]

Yeah. I'm really not scary enough to warrant needing a gun to visit me.

I don't think it's a matter of CC just to visit a friend. It's more of a "put it on in the morning and put it away at night" kind of thing. (For some CC people anyway) And then if they have happen to be by your house, it's already on their person.

[Guest]

Some people conceal carry all day, everyday. There personal protection is not dependent on wheye they are going, with the exception of your typical prohibited places (schools, federal buildings and parks).

Bingo. The ONLY exception I make is other people's homes. I always ask before I come, and leave my firearm at home if they express discomfort.

[Guest]

I don't think it's a matter of CC just to visit a friend. It's more of a "put it on in the morning and put it away at night" kind of thing. (For some CC people anyway) And then if they have happen to be by your house, it's already on their person.

The way I handle that, if I'm dropping by to pick something up, is to stay outside their front door and let them know I'm armed. If they ask me to come in anyway we are good, otherwise I remain outside the door. It happens, but fairly infrequently.

[Tsuga]

It appears that many states allow concealed carry on private property, including homes, unless the owner posts a sign stating otherwise or verbally states that guns aren't allowed.  Even if it is legal for someone to carry a concealed weapon into someone else's home without asking, do you think it's appropriate to do so?

 

Appropriate? I don't think so, personally, but it's legal. I am aware that many people disagree with me, so my assumption is always that they may have a concealed weapon.

 

Because of my BIL and that I know he has a concealed weapon, honestly there's no point pressing the issue. He's going to have a gun around my kids, and he's my BIL, so he's coming to Thanksgiving and we're going to visit, period. Better to have a short life with family than a long life lived in fear and isolation.

 

I go into the city at night. I drive a car. I take risks. One risk of living in this country is that you live with people who are afraid. All the time. So afraid they have to have a gun with them. Or, they have a hero fantasy they are acting out. Either way, there's nothing I can do. Forcing them to leave is just as cowardly as carrying a gun around to a three-year-old's birthday party. We're all going to die someday. Whether my child dies at 120, or due to a gun accident, or due to a car accident, or due to a terrorist attack--whatever. Death is awful no matter what.

 

Now, I personally would not dream of increasing anyone's risk of death by entering their home with a loaded firearm. But it's obvious to me that I don't share the values of the majority of Americans, and that's not a surprise to me. And this isn't the only thing that other people do, that threatens my quality and length of life so I let it go.

[Kerileanne99]

The way I handle that, if I'm dropping by to pick something up, is to stay outside their front door and let them know I'm armed. If they ask me to come in anyway we are good, otherwise I remain outside the door. It happens, but fairly infrequently.

Honest question though: Do you not feel like many people would feel trapped into a position of either being 'rude' or inviting you in regardless of their feelings rather than having you stuck on the porch? I think many would feel obligated to invite a guest in at that point, despite misgivings.

[SKL]

I think the surprising thing is that some don't see it as a problem.  Even if one has guns, it's something different to be carrying one around all.the.time.  To the point where hell the person can't even come over to your house for a couple of hours without it. 

 

But then I don't get the gun love either really.  (I'm not claiming all gun owners are gun lovers though.)

 

You don't know the reasons behind people's decision to CC.  I'm sure there are a variety of good reasons.

 

My dad used to service appliances.  Some of the service calls were in the high-crime part of the city.  He had loaded guns pointed at him as he did his job.  Is that a good reason to want to CC?  Another time he was a manager in a union shop that was striking.  There were threats and violence against strike breakers, so my dad decided to carry a gun.  He wanted to increase his chances of coming home to his family alive at the end of each day.  These are just a couple of possible reasons why a person might want to CC. 

 

Suppose he was on a service call in a high-crime neighborhood, should he tell people he's CC when they let him in the door?  I don't think so.  That would create a very real risk that they'd rob him of his gun once he was inside.  Better to just be quiet about it and hope nothing happens.

[SKL]

Does anyone else find it interesting how attitudes toward guns have changed over the generations?  When my dad was young, all the guys had guns, mainly for hunting rabbits and stuff.  It was a completely acceptable hobby.  He lived in a large city, and over the years he accumulated a number of guns.  There was one displayed over the mantel and a bunch in a gun cabinet.  He would shoot off a shotgun at 12:00am New Year's Day on our residential street, and nobody had a problem with that.  (Lots of other guns were going off too.)  Whenever one of his guy friends came over, the topic was sure to turn to their mutual hobbies of hunting / shooting / refurbishing antique guns etc.

 

I guess in those days, folks could not imagine that a 2015 conversation about guns would generate comments of contempt, disgust, distrust, etc. toward gun owners.