Halcyon Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/bruce-jenner-covers-vanity-fair-as-new-woman-named-caitlyn-see-photos-201516 Edited June 5, 2015 by Susan Wise Bauer Links are OK. COPYRIGHTED PHOTOS ARE NOT. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 He looks great, but there is obviously a lot of Photoshopping there as well. Does he still want to be referred to by the male pronoun? I know he recently said he did, but if he is now using a female first name instead of Bruce, I was wondering about it . I don't want to be disrespectful of his wishes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think it's she now. There is a short video on tmz which is moving. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 He looks great, but there is obviously a lot of Photoshopping there as well. Does he still want to be referred to by the male pronoun? I know he recently said he did, but if he is now using a female first name instead of Bruce, I was wondering about it . I don't want to be disrespectful of his wishes. My first thought is that she's a much better looking woman than man, but you're right. Photoshop played a big part. Still, she looks great. Most likely she would want to be called by the female pronoun. I'm sure it's a personal preference and possibly different for everyone, but ds has a friend who will be starting treatment soon. She's asked people to refer to her as a female and by her new female name for over a year now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 My first thought is that she's a much better looking woman than man, but you're right. Photoshop played a big part. Still, she looks great. Most likely she would want to be called by the female pronoun. I'm sure it's a personal preference and possibly different for everyone, but ds has a friend who will be starting treatment soon. She's asked people to refer to her as a female and by her new female name for over a year now. In the Diane Sawyer interview, Jenner said he preferred "he," though of course that may have changed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfries Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think the Diane Sawyer interview was the last the public would see of Bruce. From my understanding she is now Caitlyn. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 That is so gutsy. Good on her for taking the heat to pave the way for future generations. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 She looks great. I don't care if it is photoshopped. I think it is brave. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 That is so gutsy. Good on her for taking the heat to pave the way for future generations. I agree, but I also think she was under such media scrutiny that she had almost no other choice in the matter if she wanted to transition. I remember those first vicious tabloid stories, and I guess Bruce Jenner figured it would be better to get the story out in his own words rather than trying to transition privately and being hounded by the media 24/7. There was nowhere he could hide if he wanted to remain near his family. At first, Bruce seemed embarrassed and mortified at the publicity, and I'll bet that making the decision to go public was very empowering once he started to feel like many people were being supportive, and also because he was able to release the information and details on his own terms. I also think it was a clever move to wait to be "formally" identified as a woman until the Vanity Fair cover announced it, along with her new name and image. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 She looks great. I don't care if it is photoshopped. I think it is brave. I think it's smart, too. Now the tabloids won't have anything to report. She is what she is, and she is right there on the cover of Vanity Fair. No more secrets. No more hiding. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think it's smart, too. Now the tabloids won't have anything to report. She is what she is, and she is right there on the cover of Vanity Fair. No more secrets. No more hiding. I totally agree. I think Vanity Fair was the way to go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 She looks fantastic! Even if there is a bit of Photoshopping. ;) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yes, she looks beautiful. Thankful it isn't Kaitlyn. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 She looks good, but I think the hair looks a bit ratty. We know that's not her real hair, so if VF is going with fake hair, why not something that looks better? Maybe it's just me. Otherwise, she looks great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Library Momma Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 She looks great! I'm so glad she didn't pick a "K" name. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I didn't understand why you said this: Thankful it isn't Kaitlyn. Until I read this and it hit me. I'm so glad she didn't pick a "K" name. :D 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 She looks good, but I think the hair looks a bit ratty. We know that's not her real hair, so if VF is going with fake hair, why not something that looks better? Maybe it's just me. Otherwise, she looks great. My guess is she wants to use as much of her "real" hair as possible...as this is something she's been dreaming of. I noticed that Bruce had rather thin hair, and I don't think it looked that good when he had it down. I think this is a big improvement. Who knows, maybe she's using extensions from her daughter's line? :) I agree that it was totally smart to do this with "Vanity Fair." Not only no tabloid scoop, but to have Annie Leibovitz take the photo...doesn't get much better than that. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 He looks great, but there is obviously a lot of Photoshopping there as well. Especially considering she's 65. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Regarding pronouns, the articles says: The reality star, 65, was reintroduced as a woman named Caitlyn Jenner, now using female pronouns as she continues her transition. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Caitlin is 65? I think she should consider a career in modeling; she is beautiful! :) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 He looks great, but there is obviously a lot of Photoshopping there as well. Yes. I thought women at 65 could stop worrying about all the stupid magazine cover Photoshopped beauty-standards. Now how many husbands will tell their senior citizen wives "even Caitlyn looks better than you"? I didn't think Caitlyn was a hero before, but this... ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Caitlin is 65? I think she should consider a career in modeling; she is beautiful! :) I think the Vanity Fair cover looks great, but the un-Photoshopped real 65yo Caitlyn barely resembles the photo -- much like most celebrities look very different in real life than they do on magazine covers, whether they are 25 or 65. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think the Vanity Fair cover looks great, but the un-Photoshopped real 65yo Caitlyn barely resembles the photo. My wife saw the picture with "call me Caitlyn" along with the name Jenner, and didn't realize who it was at first, even though she (of course - what transperson in the US hasn't heard?) knew about Bruce's transitioning. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Only ones who are giant asses. Undoubtably. However, I do think we can blame Caitlyn and Vanity Fair for playing a role in photoshop culture and turning women into sex objects when they take photos like that, photoshop them beyond recognition, and put them on magazine covers. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Any one who compares their spouse to a magazine picture is too far gone into assholery to reason with at all. I don't think Caitlyn Jenner or Vanity Fair are to blame either. I don't think that it's wrong to use photoshop at all- that's the expected norm. Blaming her for that is just digging around for something to complain about. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Oh for Pete's sake, give her just one brief moment to look great on the cover of a magazine before slinging the "she should have"s and "how dare she"s around. 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Is the magazine out? I didn't see it at my Publix this afternoon. Now I am wondering if they usually have Vanity Fair. I know in the past I bought it at Barnes and Noble. I don't knownif I have ever picked it up at Publix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Oh for Pete's sake, give her just one brief moment to look great on the cover of a magazine before slinging the "she should have"s and "how dare she"s around. Yes!! Absolutely!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 She looks great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I don't think that it's wrong to use photoshop at all- that's the expected norm. Blaming her for that is just digging around for something to complain about. Right, because I would be digging around for something to complain about because... why? It is not the norm for 65yos to get on the covers of magazines wearing skimpy clothing and being heavily photoshopped. It's bad enough it's the norm for 20yos. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Right, because I would be digging around for something to complain about because... why? It is not the norm for 65yos to get on the covers of magazines wearing skimpy clothing and being heavily photoshopped. It's bad enough it's the norm for 20yos. Yes, but Caitlyn hasn't been living "the norm" for...ever? Since the 80's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yes, but Caitlyn hasn't been living "the norm" for...ever? Since the 80's. PP implied that it's the norm, and that as such, it should be totally okay. I know she hasn't been living the norm. Do we really want heavily photoshopped 65yos in skimpy clothes on magazine covers to become the new norm? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 PP implied that it's the norm, and that as such, it should be totally okay. I know she hasn't been living the norm. Do we really want heavily photoshopped 65yos in skimpy clothes on magazine covers to become the new norm? Compared to heavily photoshopped 25 year olds in skimpy clothes? I'm OK with showing that 65 year olds can be beautiful, too. And TBH I was surprised that she wasn't more photoshoppped — I was impressed that the skin on her arms and legs is not the flawlessly airbrushed, plastic-looking skin you usually see on cover models. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I agree, but I also think she was under such media scrutiny that she had almost no other choice in the matter if she wanted to transition. Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. William Shakespeare 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Compared to heavily photoshopped 25 year olds in skimpy clothes? I'm OK with showing that 65 year olds can be beautiful, too. Except you're not showing that they can be beautiful too. You're just showing that with enough photoshop, anyone can be beautiful. I think photoshop is used way too much on 25yos. We don't need to extend that to 65yos... we need to curb it in on 25yos. Not really seeing that happening, since apparently that sells, but ugh. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderchica Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The article says she recently had facial plastic surgery to "feminize" (their words) her appearance. This was obviously after the recent TV appearances, so she would appear very different than the last time the public saw her. I think it's more of a good surgeon than tons of Photoshop. Most people having plastic surgery aren't trying to look like a typical 65 year old, ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think this exceptional photograph says more about the skill of Annie Leibowitz as a photographer than it does about Photoshop retouching. As Correlino mentioned there are plenty of "imperfections" that could have been airbrushed away, that were not. At the end of the day, it is a magnificent image and sure to be an iconic part of the national conversation (and re-thinking of old ideas) about transgender issues. Jenner has the opportunity to change things for the better. I applaud her. Bill 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I hope she is content and happy with her choice, especially long term. There are some really troubling statistics about mental health post transition and for her sake I am wishing her the very best feelings over the entire process now and down the road, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The article says she recently had facial plastic surgery to "feminize" (their words) her appearance. This was obviously after the recent TV appearances, so she would appear very different than the last time the public saw her. I think it's more of a good surgeon than tons of Photoshop. Most people having plastic surgery aren't trying to look like a typical 65 year old, ya know? I hope that is the case, because I would much prefer to think she looked great before the Photoshop enhancements -- for her own personal benefit more than anything else. :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I hope that is the case, because I would much prefer to think she looked great before the Photoshopping -- for her own personal benefit more than anything else. :) I agree. I think the photoshopping looks fairly light - a little contouring and airbrushing, but nothing over the top. Of course - Annie. She could make a steaming turd look awesome, and Bruce was handsome before and pretty now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 PP implied that it's the norm, and that as such, it should be totally okay. I know she hasn't been living the norm. Do we really want heavily photoshopped 65yos in skimpy clothes on magazine covers to become the new norm? It's her life, her choice. I don't care if she's 25 or 95. If this is what she wants to do, it's not my problem nor my business to condemn her. Look, I don't wear makeup, skimpy clothes or shave my damn legs. That's my norm. I don't get to tell people what do about their personal looks anymore than I listen to people telling me I should curl my eyelashes or wax my nether regions. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I hope she is content and happy with her choice, especially long term. There are some really troubling statistics about mental health post transition and for her sake I am wishing her the very best feelings over the entire process now and down the road, too. One has to wonder if poor mental heath statistics aren't tied to dealing with the reactions of narrow-minded and cruel people? My hope is Jenner's story will open people's hearts and minds a good measure, and make the transition easier and less stressful for people in the future. Bill 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Nm, want to keep this a drama free thread :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Nm, don't want to pot stir accidentally. Carry on :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 That's a good question, Bill. The data I saw seemed to indicate it was dissatisfaction with transition, itself, and how they still didn't feel adequately 'passing' or content with the change. This is one of the studies, I might be able to track down more: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/ I am also hoping that outcomes are improving since this study was done. Better care and counseling, different social climate, etc, could improve the long term prospects for this population immensely. The question I wished that study had asked is whether people who had surgery had better outcomes than people with gender dysphoria who didn't have surgery. As it stands now, all it seems to tell us is that surgery doesn't solve all of the problems we would like it to solve, and trans people are still at significant risk post-surgery (as a group; individual outcomes can, of course, vary). It doesn't help trans people answer the question of whether surgery is beneficial for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 It's her life, her choice. I don't care if she's 25 or 95. If this is what she wants to do, it's not my problem nor my business to condemn her. Look, I don't wear makeup, skimpy clothes or shave my damn legs. That's my norm. I don't get to tell people what do about their personal looks anymore than I listen to people telling me I should curl my eyelashes or wax my nether regions. And I'm not going to say anything about that, unless you're on the cover of Vanity Fair and people are calling your a hero for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The question I wished that study had asked is whether people who had surgery had better outcomes than people with gender dysphoria who didn't have surgery. As it stands now, all it seems to tell us is that surgery doesn't solve all of the problems we would like it to solve, and trans people are still at significant risk post-surgery (as a group; individual outcomes can, of course, vary). It doesn't help trans people answer the question of whether surgery is beneficial for them. I agree, and more and better data needs to be gathered now that the sample size can be much larger. More data means more informed choices for those facing gender identity issues, and that is a *good and needed* thing. I didn't want to derail the thread or be misunderstood, though, so I did delete the post you quoted to prevent drama explosions in case someone misinterpreted my meaning ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 And I'm not going to say anything about that, unless you're on the cover of Vanity Fair and people are calling your a hero for that. There's nothing *wrong* with being in Vanity Fair though, is there? Who are you to criticize her for a totally legal thing that is par for the course with her fame? Is there some reason why 65 year old women (trans or not) owe it to anyone to NOT be on the cover of Vanity Fair in a corset style top? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Well, she's certainly getting a crash course in how harshly women are judged for their appearance, and how quickly it eclipses any discussion on whatever had them putting themselves out there in the first place. 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'm pretty much a prude but I thought they did it very tastefully - the corset and underwear covered more than most bathing suits, and I didn't really get an overly sexual vibe from it. I mean, it's really tame and not particularly provocative. She looks attractive, but not ridiculous or over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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