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My daughter is a Junior and is considering career paths.

 

For years, she's talked about being a vet. About a year and a half ago, she started working part time in my friend's real estate office. She loves the work, she can see herself doing that and enjoying it.

 

She can also see herself doing vet work and enjoying that just as much.

 

Here's what she's debating.

 

She/we hate debt. She wants to get out in the workplace unencumbered by years of student loan debt. Vets don't really make TONS of money, especially when you consider how much time they have to put in to graduate. Add to that the costs of vet school and being a vet is a bit less appealing. My dd;s concern is that she will not be able to really get started in life until she's in her late 20s. (not that she's in a hurry to get married or anything like that, but she does consider that waiting till 26-28 years old is a lot longer than she'd like to have to wait to enter "the real adult world".) Another thing to consider is that if she were to borrow money for vet school, she may end up having to work when her kids are small (which she doesn't want to do) just to pay back those loans.

 

On the other hand is real estate. She likes it and thinks she would do well at it. (I think she would too. She's a very good people person)  College not necessarily required. However, real estate is a volatile field. Her boss would mentor her and help her get started. My friend has done VERY well in real estate and enjoys it. Real estate is also a good field for moms, because you can often work evening s and weekends when dad's home to look after kids.

 

I do wonder though, if she would regret not going to vet school, especially if real estate hits a lull.

 

Should I encourage her to follow her initial plan? I do think she's wise to consider how her life might look in 10 years and how her desires for the future may change things.

 

Thoughts? Input? Suggestions?

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There are several loan repayment programs where the government will forgive student loan debt for new veterinarians if they work in rural areas that need services.  There are also similar loan forgiveness programs for those choosing to treat large animals.  Just throwing that out there.  

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Why can't she work a few years in real estate and THEN go to vet school? Or get a Vet Tech certificate and work for a vet?

 

Five of my children, adults,  are now doing something different than their original high school plan. I can see two of them gradually rounding back TO the original plan in the future.

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In our area, large livestock and particularly those that are good with horses, do well. One way she could keep her debt load down would be to take the farrier classes at your local big AG school. We only have one farrier left in our county. He gets $65.00 per horse, and you don't want to get out of sync in your rotation because he doesn't have a lot of openings for impromptu appointments.

 

The coursework at our ag school, MSU, is well taught and reasonably priced. We are also in desperate need of a sheep sheerer as the only one that services the area is retiring. Again, another trade that could be provided during the late spring and summer when not in class that would earn her some decent money for school and is related to the veterinary profession.

 

I would choose vet work, particularly large livestock which is in demand, as the big picture career because for most vets, they have steady, decently paid work they can count on vs. real estate where in many parts of the country the markets are saturated with agents and since the housing bubble burst, property values have plummeted in many, many areas which means commissions are lower. In areas with hard winters, real estate is hard to sell for four or five months so the agent has to be very careful about cash flow issues, and of course until one makes broker, the commission is shared with the broker and possibly another agent from another office as well. My sister in law is in real estate in St. Petersburg, FL, and often sells high priced properties that by the time she shares with her broker and another agent leaves her with only a couple thousand of dollars. The broker is raking in money, but many of the agents are having a hard time paying their bills. I've not seen that around here with the local veterinarians, not even the ones that only do small animal work.

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Why can't she work a few years in real estate and THEN go to vet school? Or get a Vet Tech certificate and work for a vet?

 

Five of my children, adults,  are now doing something different than their original high school plan. I can see two of them gradually rounding back TO the original plan in the future.

 

This is an interesting plan. I wonder if she could work in real estate as an agent as she's going to school (not vet school, more like undergrad) and save up cash to pay for vet school.  It's really the possibility of debt that has her hesitating over vet school. It's just a ton of money.

 

She wants to be a large animal vet.

 

She loves horses!

 

 

 

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Has she worked with or for a vet? I would really encourage this, as her love of horses may not translate to love of medicine..or it may. To get through the schooling and excell in undergrad in order to get into vet school, I think you have to have a passion for it. And if you have a passion for vet med you will probably always wonder why you didn't pursue it when you had the chance. However, I believe crippling debt is becoming more of a problem. Perhaps she can get her license in real estate and use this to help her get throught school.

 

If she could get through undergrad with no debt, it would make vet school a lot more palatable. I would recommend using community college classes, trying to accelerate under grad, and look at early entry programs to decrease cost of under grad as well. Also, I would probably only pay instate tuition for vet school.

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Has she worked with or for a vet? I would really encourage this,  

 

I second this. 

 

Also, it never hurts to have a secondary plan in mind either way (for any student). Sometimes, you discover something completely new in college, and you can't plan for that necessarily, but just thinking through more than one path can be a big help.

 

I definitely wouldn't consider it a straight choice between real estate or vet school; if she likes real estate, there are probably many related jobs that she would enjoy as well. If she does well enough in STEM subjects to be a vet, and likes selling real estate, she could also do tremendously well in many different sales jobs. 

 

There are of course many sales jobs that don't require any technical knowledge, but it can be a huge, huge plus - because you are able to help companies figure out a solution for a problem they have, what will work and what will not. 

 

Other types of sales can be volatile just as real estate can, but you are usually working from a solid base and not straight commission. 

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I would encourage her to talk to vets. We know a recent vet grad and she talked about it being as expensive as med school but starting pay of less than 70000. She said the only way to make money today as a vet is be owner of an established practice or to go to school longer and specialize.

 

She also said vet school admissions can be more difficult than med school.

 

I cannot attest to the validity of her comments. But if I had a child interested in that path,I'd want to know if they were accurate.

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I had a friend in college who wanted to go to vet school.  She had worked at a vet's office in high school, and was then working at a vet's near college.  She even assisted in surgery...she had so much experience.  She had A average in college and did a lot of service in the community.  She didn't get in to vet school even knowing many of the teachers there already.  She applied for 3 years before giving up.   It is a very expensive path, but I think she has to decide if the debt is worth it.  

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Two of my husband's relatives [one uncle and said uncle's wife] are veterinarians.  Additionally, his son married a veterinarian's daughter and DFD10 and DFD6's biological father was a veterinarian. Our eldest daughter considered pursuing veterinary medicine when she was 12/13 but ultimately got more interested in biochemistry and molecular biology and the human applications of both disciplines which will probably translate into her pursuing a MD or MD/PhD after college [right now she is finishing up her sophomore year]. Now DFD10 thinks she wants to either be a veterinarian or a pediatric pulmonologist so we've continued to have an interest in the field.

 

Random thoughts based on what we understand from our family connections and some conversations we had relating to our kids possibly have similar aspirations:

-Kids considering pursuing this field definitely need to have some exposure to it [applications usually ask about animal experience hours for example and may want recommendation letters from current DVMs familiar with the applicant] ideally by some internships and or paid work in the field.  Our eldest daughter could have worked for her uncle (or her brother's FIL) during later high school summers and then continued with that during college summers and breaks but by the time she was old enough to do that she was more interested in molecular biology bench research and she did that.  This will be an option for DFD10 when she is older if the interest is still there and I think it will give her a good look at what the career really entails as well as meeting the animal experience requirement. Actually in her case, I think her dad's former partner would love nothing better than to mentor her in this way and I think for many reasons that may be good for both of them even if she doesn't ultimately pursue a DVM.

-Vet school admissions are definitely competitive.  This is one area where I do think that selecting undergrad which has an on campus Vet school can be really helpful in terms of establishing connections, having opportunities for respected undergraduate research that will aid in admissions etc.  From a financial standpoint, it may also make sense to do what one needs to do to establish residency in the state where one wishes to go to school because that can make significant difference in tuition. Tuition also varies quite widely from state school to state school and, in some cases, it may make sense for a child to plan to establish state residency in a different state for this reason.  

-As far as Vet's making 70k their first year out, I think that salary does fit in some scenarios [there is a bit of geographic variation and differences based on practice focus etc].  Interestingly, it is much more than I made my first year out of medical school and still about 15-20K more than my husband's son is making now in his first year out with his MD.  Now my current salary, even working only part time in emergency medicine/toxicology, is much more than that and I fully believe that DSS will see his salary climb significantly when he finishes his surgery residency but I just wanted to point that out for some context.  

-As far as specialization for increasing salary I think that really depends.  We have a family member who is a DVM surgeon and is making a lot more in private practice doing a mix than he/she would working in academia (which is where the most of the subspecialty jobs still are in the DVM world).  There were other family factors that influenced their decision beyond the money but I know that at least for them the money is much better being paid as a generalist in the private sector than a sub specialist in the university setting.

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This is an interesting plan. I wonder if she could work in real estate as an agent as she's going to school (not vet school, more like undergrad) and save up cash to pay for vet school.  It's really the possibility of debt that has her hesitating over vet school. It's just a ton of money.

 

She wants to be a large animal vet.

 

She loves horses!

 

Large animal vets can sometimes qualify for loan forgiveness as there is a shortage. Most people want to do small animal.

 

I would suggest that she go to college for an undergrad degree. She can continue to work real estate part time. When she graduates, she can decide if she wants to go on to vet school or on to be a full time realtor. Having the college degree will give her a much shorter path to a new career if she ever decides to leave real estate. If she goes to school for a year or two and decides she wants to quit to go full time into real estate, that works too. I would encourage her to start work on a college degree right now so as not to close doors yet.

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Not sure if it's same in the US but in Canada you can't apply straight to vet school, you have to have at least 2 years of undergrad & most people end up having a BSc.  I'd advise doing a bachelor's degree, & getting work experience in both fields in summers & throughout the school years and deciding a little further down the line. If she enjoys her vet work experience and has the grades to get in and decides to pursue it yay. If not, she can fall back on real estate & still have a bachelor's degree.

My dd is working in wildlife rehabilitation while she's in school. She has assisted in surgeries, she administers shots, she's been doing sutures, looking at fecal smears under microscopes etc. It's a smallish place and everyone ends up doing everything..  She loves her job and is good at it but is pretty sure she does not want to go into that field, either as a vet or vet tech.

Oh & btw, vet techs (essentially vet nurses) are now becoming a licenced profession so that's another option for your dd. It's also quite competitive but much shorter programs. Working much quicker and much less debt, but earnings are lower than for vets.

Fwiw, in our area, RN with a 4 year degree earn more than vets (except for the highly specialized boutique vets)

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Yes, she has to have 4 yrs of undergrad before Vet school's even an option/

 

Right now she says real estate agent + college for a few years to save up for vet school.

 

I think with her intial ACT score, she may qualify for some scholarship funds to avoid debt for the undergrad.

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Right now she says real estate agent + college for a few years to save up for vet school.

 

I think with her intial ACT score, she may qualify for some scholarship funds to avoid debt for the undergrad.

 

This makes tons of sense to me. She may decide she loves being a Realtor and doesn't want to go to vet school. She may decide that getting grades competitive for vet school is too much work. She may decide that being a Realtor is not an acceptable lifelong career for her. She may decide she loves her pre-vet work and can't wait to be a vet. Four years can change so much! I have a pre-vet degree and never applied to vet school, but I've never regretted the degree.

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Some vet schools require experience. You will have to check on the places available yo your dd for applying. So, your dd will have to make time to volunteer with a vet practice.

 

Ideally, she'd start getting experience now. The commitment is long and expensive. It's much better to find out now that she's definitely going in the right direction. My dd wanted to be a vet for years. So, we sought out a variety of experiences with large and small animals. After years of doing that dd decided that she loves animals, but she doesn't want to be in charge of medical care and de ion making. She had observed several surgeries. She helped a guinea pig rescue with things like subcutaneous rehydration and providing palliative care. Participating in that did not bother her, but she had this general overall feeling that she wanted just wanted to be a caregiver and companion to her own animals not other people's. She dropped most of her animal/vet activities. She still helps the rescue. People still call her for pet sitting even though she has not actively pushed that business in a few years. She's stepping back from the original goal and looking at other things, while still having a hobby level involvement with animals (which appears to be what she needs). I was a little disappointed, but I also think it's better to find out before college rather committ a lot of time to the goal and have her feel trapped.

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A career in Vetrinary Medicine doesn't have to be all or nothing, and it won't break the bank to at least start on the path she wants and see if she truly is interested in the field. (Many people realize that they love the animals, but dislike the intense inter-personal work)

 

Start as a Vetrinary Assistant (certification not required, but State Vet societies may offer training)

Take the necessary classes to move up to Vet Tech

If she loves it, then invest in becoming a Veterinarian

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 If she completed a vet tech degree at a community college, not a vocational school, the credits should transfer towards a pre-vet program at a 4 year college.  For instance, Parkland College in Champaign, IL has a vet tech degree that's quite inexpensive compared to most. 

 

A vet tech would be paid by the hour.  A realtor puts in many hours without pay and somehow is expected to cover expenses for gas, cell phone, advertising, lunches with clients, office supplies, etc.

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Why can't she work a few years in real estate and THEN go to vet school? Or get a Vet Tech certificate and work for a vet?

 

Five of my children, adults,  are now doing something different than their original high school plan. I can see two of them gradually rounding back TO the original plan in the future.

 

Vet Techs make very very very  little money, barely enough to live off of. Certainly not enough to raise a family on. I know, I'm a certified vet tech. And getting into vet school is HARD. Much harder than getting into medical school. I don't think waiting and being out of the field would be a good idea. 

 

Honestly, I adore animals, but if she wants a good family life I say real estate. You can have animals as a hobby, while doing real estate. Or foster rescues, etc. If she isn't totally called to be a vet, where the idea of anything else makes her heartbroken, don't do it. 

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 If she isn't totally called to be a vet, where the idea of anything else makes her heartbroken, don't do it. 

 

I agree. 

 

Although I also agree that she doesn't have to make the decision right now. A year or two in college may make things clearer.  

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Large animal vets can sometimes qualify for loan forgiveness as there is a shortage. Most people want to do small animal.

 

I would suggest that she go to college for an undergrad degree. She can continue to work real estate part time. When she graduates, she can decide if she wants to go on to vet school or on to be a full time realtor. Having the college degree will give her a much shorter path to a new career if she ever decides to leave real estate. If she goes to school for a year or two and decides she wants to quit to go full time into real estate, that works too. I would encourage her to start work on a college degree right now so as not to close doors yet.

 

I hadn't realized she was interested in large animal. If she is willing to do agricultrual work, aka cows and chickens and pigs, she can look into programs for loan forgiveness. 

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Oh & btw, vet techs (essentially vet nurses) are now becoming a licenced profession so that's another option for your dd. It's also quite competitive but much shorter programs. Working much quicker and much less debt, but earnings are lower than for vets.

 

Fwiw, in our area, RN with a 4 year degree earn more than vets (except for the highly specialized boutique vets)

 

I'm a licensed tech. The money is less, after 3 yrs of school, a degree, and passing state and national board exams than a "medical assistant" with no degree gets in human medicine. 

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I'm a licensed tech. The money is less, after 3 yrs of school, a degree, and passing state and national board exams than a "medical assistant" with no degree gets in human medicine. 

 

yes exactly.

 

salaries:

 

human  RN >  DVM 

 

human nurse's aide > licenced AHT

 

human hospital cleaner > unlicensed vet assistant

 

then there's the sad truth of vet medicine that most owners are um, ^&*(% . Won't/can't pay for treatment, or for diagnostics. So many people burn out in the field due to the stress (& vets have very large suicide rates). They go into it because they love animals and spend large chunks of their days euthanizing or giving marginal treatment because that's all the person will pay for.

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Real estate depends on the market. A few realtors are making the big sales here and there are many SAHM's trying to enter the real estate market by taking the exam.

 

If competition is less where you are and she don't mind unstable income than it could be a nice occupation. She might have the talent for sales.

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Real estate fluctuates, but the really good agents I know manage to do okay even during the slumps.  During this last recession my real estate friend's income did not decrease AT ALL.  But, she works her tail off for her clients!  To do well in real estate it is not as "flexible" as you might imagine (i.e "family friendly") To really make money and stay busy you have to be very accommodating and willing to go that extra mile.  

 

After having seen what my friend goes through to take care of her clients, I believe she earns every dollar.  I could never do it.  It's a very demanding profession IF you want to be good and always have stable income.

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I've known more than a few people who jumped into real estate as a second career; the transition and education was smooth and manageable, even for those with a family.  So, if your DD wants to do that later on, I would think it would be possible to make that transition without a huge input of money.  The reverse, however, from real estate to veterinarian, is not nearly was smooth and easy.  I also agree with FaithManor when she says that large animal vets and related services are sparse in many parts of the country.

 

Ultimately, I think she should follow her passion, regardless of what reason says.  :)  Keep in mind that starting work to save money can snowball so that she never gets herself to school as she intended, especially if she meets someone, takes on a mortgage, and has kids.  One day, she may find herself 50 and wonder where the years went and rue the day she never jumped into vet school.

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I'll just add this interesting article in the NY Times about the debt incurred by graduates of vet schools.

 

I didn't read your link but here is a similar article from Minnesota, http://www.startribune.com/debt-swallows-up-students-at-vet-grad-professional-schools/275017651/

 

Vet school can be a great career option but you need to be *very* savvy about being debt free coming out of undergrad and low-ish debt coming out of vet school.

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Dh is a vet. He went to school when out of state tuition/fees were still under 20k at the school we chose. Tuition/fees are more than double that now. If you go to one of the off-shore or private US schools, costs can easily be 70+k/yr. It is very expensive. The new IBR (income based repayment) rules make it much more feasible to go into that sort of debt, but then you're looking at 20 years of large debt and then a possible huge tax bill when you are done with your IBR payments. (If you get 200k forgiven, that is considered taxable income according to current rules, so you're looking at a 60-80k tax bill, which you will need to SAVE FOR while in IBR.) So, yep, you're looking at a lifetime of debt. Sucks. 

 

It is possible to make a good living as a vet, but it is no guarantee, and the main route to an income level proportional to your educational investment is to own a practice, which is a whole 'nother issue coming with plenty of risk and *very* hard work and long hours. 

 

My advice to potential vets is to do it with as low debt as possible. That means undergrad paid for, going to the cheapest in-state school possible, living cheap, working PT/summers through school, and, ideally, some help from Mom and Dad. Personally, we have told our kids this, and that if they wanted to go to vet school, they better do undergrad super cheap/free de and save their "Bank of Mom and Dad" assistance for vet school to help them keep debt down, and also to only go if they can get into the cheapest option state-side. NO WAY should any sane person be going to the private CA school or any of the overseas schools unless they have a very big trust fund and family support. It's financial suicide, IMHO, to go into 300-500k in debt for schooling and come out with a career that will only safely assure you of a high 5 figure salary. 

 

FWIW, dh came out with big loans (and me, too, for my grad school), and we're doing fine, even paying them off in full as opposed to doing the new-fangled IBR stuff. We'll have the last paid off THIRTY YEARS after dh graduated. The payments have gotten smaller over the years as some shorter term loans have gotten paid off, and the monthly number seems relatively smaller as the years go by and inflation (and career/business advancement) makes our incomes go up. Still, it's another mortgage payment each month. Just a few months ago, when another set got paid off, for the first time since graduating 15 years ago, our monthly student loan payments are finally, now, less than our mortgage. Barely. 

 

Dh owns his practice (bought it 4 years out), and despite being a huge amount of work, has definitely been the key factor in allowing us some hope of making enough money to make all the educational investment pay off. Owner salaries are hugely variable, though. There are plenty of owners who make less than the associates they employ, but there is a big upside variability, so it is entirely feasible to earn 150-200k/yr as an owner while also building assets in the practice itself as well as associated real estate. (I am a big believer in owning your business's real estate both for the current value of not having to worry about a landlord or rent increases, as well as the long term investment of having real estate that will have value even if your practice folds. It is not uncommon for the real estate to end up being much more valuable than the practice.) 

 

The field has become much more competitive in recent years and is set to get more and more so for employed vets as the vet schools are pumping out vastly increased classes each year. 

 

Vet med is still a good career path, but not as flexible and guaranteed-job as is used to be. It needs to be a thoughtful decision, with understanding the details of how the choices made in school, residency, living costs during school, work options during school, and then the post-school repayment plan and also career path impact the student's long term financial well being. 

 

I know nothing about real estate. Seems like a up-and-down market, but there are always people selling houses. Like vet med, it seems like there are a lot of important choices to be made. Becoming a "realtor" or whatever the term is for the person who owns/operates an office is likely a more lucrative position. I'd think some business school education would be very helpful, as would some business-law classes. 

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I didn't read your link but here is a similar article from Minnesota, http://www.startribune.com/debt-swallows-up-students-at-vet-grad-professional-schools/275017651/

 

Vet school can be a great career option but you need to be *very* savvy about being debt free coming out of undergrad and low-ish debt coming out of vet school.

 

 

Note that this article is 2 years old, and that tuitions have gone up, up, up each year since then while so have graduating class sizes . . . making for more and more indebted students and more and more competition for jobs. 

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Another voice for licensed vet tech being a noble but terribly under-compensated job. Absolutely bad wages for all support personnel in vet med. If you can hire a new grad vet for 65k, you aren't going to be paying your techs more than half that. If half that sounds feasible, then, well, fine. But that is with very limited up-side growth. So, in my mind, not a career path for someone with the ability to do something more lucrative. 

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I hadn't realized she was interested in large animal. If she is willing to do agricultrual work, aka cows and chickens and pigs, she can look into programs for loan forgiveness. 

 

To the best of my understanding, the forgiveness programs are a lot of talk and little action. Finding a qualifying job can be very hard. I'd definitely research the details very carefully before counting on any loan forgiveness programs. 

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yes exactly.

 

salaries:

 

human  RN >  DVM 

 

human nurse's aide > licenced AHT

 

human hospital cleaner > unlicensed vet assistant

 

then there's the sad truth of vet medicine that most owners are um, ^&*(% . Won't/can't pay for treatment, or for diagnostics. So many people burn out in the field due to the stress (& vets have very large suicide rates). They go into it because they love animals and spend large chunks of their days euthanizing or giving marginal treatment because that's all the person will pay for.

 

 I don't think average RN salaries are higher than average DVMs. A quick googling showed average DVM salary of 90k+ and average RN salary of 60k+. In our area, that relationship seems about right. 

 

I know unlicensed vet assistants that make over 12-14/hr, and we once had one that earned over 16/hr. I don't think the hospital cleaners pay near that here. 

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I know unlicensed vet assistants that make over 12-14/hr, and we once had one that earned over 16/hr. I don't think the hospital cleaners pay near that here. 

 

Here unlicensed vet assistants start at minimum wage with little room for growth. A certified vet tech would do well to make $12-14/hr. 

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Well, I am in union land so that skews things. Our nurses & most hospital staff are unionized. Vets, techs & assistants are not. 

I think it does vary a lot regionally.

I know the numbers pretty well because my dd has run through them several times. She's in a general science program & deciding where to apply. She currently works in wildlife rehab so she's rubbing shoulders with vets & techs. (actually ticked a tech off because she's getting paid same as techs and doing pretty much the same job but she's not a tech)

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